Only Incredible by Quiztime - Dailymotion

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00:00The Bob Ryan and Jeff Goodman Podcast is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time App.

00:19It's time for the Bob Ryan Gary Tangway Pod here on CLNS Media brought to you by Price

00:23Picks, the exclusive daily fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network.

00:27Pick more, pick less with Price Picks.

00:30OK, Bob, kicking things off with the Celtics.

00:35It was kind of comical, at least how the interaction or lack of interaction was portrayed between

00:41Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum and their Olympic coach or one of the Olympic coach, Steve Kerr.

00:49There's a wonderful photo showing Brown and Tatum after the game and Kerr on the looking

00:56in.

00:57Guys, I'm here, you know, or look at any kind of picture or metaphor you want to use.

01:03The notes pressed against the glass, whatever.

01:07But they were ignoring him in that photo.

01:09There was no now.

01:10That was the one moment, an instant I had to quit now.

01:13And that's kind of what people want to see here in Boston.

01:17I think, you know, that they want that they want to be reassured that the boys are upset

01:22with Steve Kerr because they were, you know, they were dissed, you know.

01:25And I mean, well, not Tatum was dissed.

01:29Brown never was on the team and his beef can't be with Kerr, but with the committee.

01:33OK, so that's different.

01:34Kerr represented the committee.

01:37Now, Jason Tatum claims they did talk after when we weren't looking.

01:41So, you know, it's much to do about something, but not a whole lot.

01:47And I think that, you know, Tatum certainly has taken a high road from day one, I think,

01:51as he always will, I think, and things.

01:53And but it was just funny.

01:56The photo, if you're looking for something to reinforce your view that they're angry

02:03with Kerr, it was there in that photo.

02:06That's all I can say.

02:07Yeah.

02:08I can't imagine Jason Tatum being angry at anyone for a long period of time.

02:11He seems like such a nice guy.

02:13You know, the thing with Kerr, you know, with Celtic fanaticism.

02:19What's that?

02:20I'm sorry, Bob.

02:21We've well established that Brown and Tatum are different people.

02:24Oh, no question.

02:25Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:26You've established that.

02:27Yeah.

02:28Yeah.

02:29I mean, Brown would definitely hold a grudge.

02:30But like you said, Kerr didn't pick the team.

02:33I don't know if he had any input or not.

02:35I'm sure he had some input.

02:38Yeah.

02:39But it was a committee decision.

02:40Yeah, it was.

02:41And it was a Greenville decision in the long run.

02:43Frankly, he's got the most.

02:45He's the guy.

02:46Well, they won.

02:47Yeah, they did.

02:49They won.

02:50And that's right.

02:54And thank God they won because a superstar, as we used to say in the old days, went into

03:00the phone booth and, you know, and came out with his escape.

03:04But this generation doesn't know that image anymore.

03:09So that remains for us old folks to invoke the Superman image.

03:13And by the way, what's a phone booth?

03:14We'll tell our kids and grandchildren about phone booths someday, you know.

03:19Or VHS.

03:20Or, you know, anything of that sort.

03:24Dial phone.

03:25Dial phone's another one.

03:27Well, my daughter the other day, my son has a turntable.

03:31My daughter was actually listening to vinyl on the turntable.

03:33I go, doesn't it sound that way?

03:35Whoa!

03:36Yes!

03:38That's good.

03:39I got a turntable.

03:40But, you know, anyways, we digress.

03:45Speaking of Steve Carr, Steve Carr, though, offered a very sobering analysis of the Boston

03:52Celtics situation.

03:54Because if anybody has been there with nine career wings, and it is of the people breathing

04:04today, he's probably the champ in that regard, now that our wonderful Casey Jones has passed

04:10and Bill Russell has passed.

04:12But that would leave, and Sam has passed.

04:14I think Carr has got to be the leading living person with the most rings, if I can off the

04:19top of my head.

04:20Anyway, he said, the Celtics are going to be fine.

04:23They're going to be fine.

04:24And he said, they are fine.

04:25They're going to be fine.

04:26This is a phenomenon that he's lived through about all the circumstances that follow a

04:32championship, beginning with your own internal motivations, whole situation, and then the

04:37opponents and all that.

04:39But he offered a very strong endorsement of the Celtics, which should make Celtic fans

04:44feel good, I think.

04:45Yeah, it seems that the Celtics have righted the ship a little bit.

04:48And as you mentioned, until they're down 3-1 in the playoffs next June.

04:56Then we'll get out on the ledge.

04:58But until then, I'm not getting out on the ledge.

05:00No, they'll be fine.

05:02But the one thing I will say about the Celtics, it is quite a testament to how, you know,

05:09White, that's the one I look at, you know, he had played at such a high level to the

05:16point where we expected him to play that way every night, the way, at least I did, the

05:24way I expect Jaylen Brown and Jason Tateman to play.

05:28Well, he played his way on the Olympic team.

05:30Who would have thought of that two years ago when he came here and I had to look him up?

05:36All right, I'll be honest.

05:38I knew he existed, but barely.

05:39I had not paid any attention.

05:41San Antonio was off the radar in those days.

05:44And I didn't have any idea this guy had scored 14 points a game the year before he came here.

05:50I shrugged when they got him.

05:53Okay, I don't know.

05:54We'll see.

05:55Well, obviously, he's a much higher creature than we thought.

05:59But, you know, we don't want to—one mistake that, you know, is very common to everybody

06:04in the history of basketball, myself included, of course, is evaluating players strictly

06:09on the basis of offense or whether the shot's going in.

06:13Shot isn't going in with the regularity it went in last year.

06:16It's not as if he's dogging it on defense or anything else.

06:19He established himself last year as a phenomenon, as the best shot-blocking guard in the NBA.

06:24And he still does that.

06:26And he's still playing defense.

06:28It's not a matter—he's playing bad basketball.

06:31His shot is off.

06:33And we've got to think that it will come back.

06:36That's all I can say on that.

06:37Well taken.

06:38I want to get to a topic that bothers me because, though he is not a Celtic, and I would never

06:43root for him, I became a Jimmy Butler fan because of sort of his lunch pail mentality

06:51and the way that he carried the Miami heat.

06:54And it's just so disappointing now that he got bounced again, suspended again by the team.

07:00And I think it's just too bad.

07:02I know players want to move on.

07:04They want to play for another team, which is fine.

07:06It's America.

07:07You want to ask for a trade?

07:08Ask for a trade.

07:10But I just don't like it when they do it like this because I think it diminishes—I know

07:16it diminishes what Butler did on the floor, which in Miami I thought was admirable.

07:22Oh, we spent a lot of time in the last two years, along with Jeff Goodman, two years

07:28ago specifically, talking about, boy, if only Tatum could only get a little Butler in him.

07:33Right.

07:34I mean, he's a competitor.

07:35He's fierce.

07:36He's one of the great clutch players in the NBA.

07:38He was more responsible than any other individual for Miami's success when they had that great

07:44success, recent post-LeBron success.

07:47And, you know, he's a pain in the ass.

07:51And, you know, I happen to have—I came across, I still have in my possession, you know, I

07:56don't throw magazines out too often the way I should.

07:59And he was a cover boy on Sports Illustrated a couple of years ago, preseason.

08:04And the guy is very bright.

08:06He's a very—he's nobody's fool, I'll tell you that.

08:11So his actions are well calculated.

08:14And he's a smart man, egotistical, yes, but that ego translates into, you know, it

08:21translates into alpha male performances on the basketball court when you need them.

08:28That's for sure.

08:29He's not a simple guy to have around.

08:32And he's made himself the thing—and here's the thing, though, he should be smart enough

08:37to understand this.

08:38He's making himself a trade liability, you know.

08:42Do you want this guy?

08:45And how much are you willing to give up to get this guy?

08:48And I don't remember too many circumstances, Gary, in my long tenure looking at the NBA

08:56where a guy got himself suspended by his own team twice within a month or within three

09:02weeks.

09:04And, you know, the first one was unspecified for the outside world, kind of detrimental

09:10to the team.

09:11This one is—he missed a flight, you know, apparently.

09:15And, you know, part of his attitude, you know, deterioration here.

09:22And they suspended him again.

09:24And so that's rare, extremely rare.

09:29I won't say unprecedented, but I don't know of a precedent.

09:33And so this is not—this is not responsible behavior.

09:38That's all.

09:39No.

09:40And I also, as you have mentioned, the age of 35, his market value, I don't think is

09:45at the point that it once was.

09:48And it's not to a level where somebody will simply look past his behavior.

09:55They shouldn't.

09:57Because he's—this is—remember, he's been a malcontent.

10:00This is team four, I believe.

10:03And it never ends well.

10:06Oh, Minnesota—Minnesota, right?

10:08Yes.

10:09Yes.

10:10Chicago, Philly.

10:11Chicago didn't end well.

10:14You know, the next one up didn't end well.

10:16This one—so Philadelphia, right?

10:19So this is—this guy, this is the pattern.

10:23This is the recurrent pattern.

10:26It clouds the whole image.

10:28Just will it keep him out of the Hall of Fame someday?

10:32Probably not.

10:33Because, well, that depends on the way the Nesbitt Hall of Fame is structured.

10:39And they can always change their structure.

10:41But it's a committee.

10:43And it's a committee in which you have a term.

10:45I've been on it.

10:47And it's a two-year term, maybe three, I forget.

10:50And, you know, so it depends on who's voting when.

10:55Which is true of all Halls of Fame, it's true.

10:57But this one is insular.

11:00There aren't many people involved.

11:02You know, baseball's got over 400.

11:04I don't know how hockey works.

11:06Football, they've got certainly more than a dozen.

11:09But that's all it is in basketball.

11:11It's under 20 people.

11:13And so, you know, who knows how they're going to view him when the time comes up.

11:17My guess is it won't keep him out.

11:19But, anyway, it's just unbecoming.

11:22As he's happy, I don't know how he can live with himself with this.

11:25But apparently he can.

11:27Can you share any stories from the inside, inside of the room,

11:33any debates during your Hall of Fame tenure?

11:36The funniest one for me was it was a selection committee.

11:43It was the nominating committee I was on at the time.

11:47And it was a conference call.

11:50We weren't in New York together.

11:52We were on a conference call.

11:54And I was on the road.

11:56And I was pitching Guy Rodgers.

12:01And a voice rings out, Bob, he couldn't guard you or me.

12:07Dr. Jack Ramsey.

12:12You know, that's my favorite one.

12:14I don't remember any, you know, any rancorous debates or anything like that

12:19when I was with the whole group in New York.

12:23I'm sure they have happened.

12:25But I wasn't a part of any, no.

12:27I just loved Dr.

12:29I heard the football ones could get pretty good.

12:32Yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:35Well, of course, football is so much anecdotal evidence for all these positions.

12:40Offensive linemen, you know.

12:42Oh, I know.

12:44It's not empirical evidence.

12:46I think our legends, I don't want to misspeak,

12:52but I think our legends Will McDonough and maybe Ron Borges have had some,

12:56not necessarily with each other,

12:58but I could certainly see the great Will McDonough

13:01or certainly the opinionator Ron Borges sharing a thought or two.

13:06I think Borges was very instrumental in getting Tippett in

13:10or trying to get Tippett in.

13:12I don't know.

13:13Or trying to get him in, I think.

13:15Yeah, yeah.

13:16But I heard those were pretty interesting stories.

13:19I can believe that.

13:20Anyway.

13:21I doubt they were.

13:23You made a very good point during our pre-show chat here about the rookies,

13:30and I didn't even think about it.

13:32Not a very impressive class this year.

13:34No.

13:35I mean, I'm looking at the,

13:39this went by the top scorers, okay,

13:42just for the sake of this argument,

13:44the top current seven rookie scorers.

13:48Number one is Jared McLean, who got off cane,

13:50which got off to a great start with Philly,

13:52then he got hurt.

13:53But he actually had 30-point games, okay?

13:55And I don't know.

13:57Jalen Wells of Memphis, here's what I'm getting at.

14:01Jared McLean was the 16th pick in the draft, okay?

14:05Jalen Wells was the 39th.

14:08The number one pick in the draft was Zachary Risache of Atlanta.

14:13And he's not exactly setting the world on fire,

14:15but, I mean, it's a slow start.

14:17Number two pick was Alex Saar of Washington.

14:20He's getting better, but he hasn't set the world on fire.

14:23I think the consensus favorite right now is Stefan Kassel of Yukon at San Antonio.

14:31He was the fourth pick in the draft.

14:34Zach Eady, he has underwhelming numbers,

14:38but I know Memphis is happy with him,

14:40and they don't throw him the ball very much.

14:42He's the ninth pick in the draft.

14:44And a guy who we talked about earlier,

14:47I brought up way back in the first three weeks of the season,

14:50got off to a rocket start, and then had a low,

14:53and I think he's coming back, is Dalton Kinect in L.A.

14:56He's the 17th pick in the draft.

15:01But it's just, you know, because last year, you know,

15:05everything was all about Wenbyana.

15:07But I just think it's a very underwhelming class in general terms.

15:13The closest thing to an impact rookie right now at times,

15:19more often than anybody else can make that claim, is Kassel.

15:23But it's not like it's a dazzling rookie year.

15:26It's a decent rookie year.

15:28But I just think it's safe to say that this is a very underwhelming crop,

15:32and, you know, I don't know what the early returns are on next year,

15:38although we know who the number one pick is, unless there's a seismic change.

15:43He happened to be in Boston the other night,

15:45and Mr. Flagg from Newport, Maine, you smile on your face, Newport, Maine.

15:51But I'm just making a comment.

15:54Rookies are having minimal impact in the NBA this year.

15:58I mean, obviously, NIL money is not going to equate to a rookie contract.

16:04But I wonder if the NIL money does start to impact kids staying in for an additional year

16:12if they don't think they're going to go high enough

16:15or if they are questionable to get drafted.

16:17Yeah.

16:18There's evidence that it's happened in football.

16:20There's evidence there, and I can see that depending on, you know,

16:24how crazy the money is.

16:27Right.

16:28So I think if we're not having it already, we will have that happen.

16:33I don't think there's any doubt that that's going to be a permanent part of the landscape

16:39in football and basketball is somebody staying in an extra year

16:44because it isn't worth it to them in their perfecting draft status

16:49when they're making nice money to start with.

16:52I think that's a given.

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18:45Okay, Bob.

18:47Speaking of a guy that's running up some points, SGA with 54 the other night.

18:54I don't know where it's going to end.

18:56Of course, where we'd like it to end is with a ring on his finger.

18:58And it certainly is a good possibility or a certain reasonable possibility that can happen.

19:04But he just keeps keeping on, boy.

19:07He just keeps opening your eyes more and more.

19:1054 points last night.

19:12Right now, he's the best guard in the league. Period.

19:15Right now.

19:16I mean, if you're going to give award just to guards, he'd be the player of the year and wouldn't make any argument from anybody.

19:23Imagine who's even second this year is to him.

19:26So, yeah, what a thing.

19:29You know, I never saw this coming to this degree.

19:33I don't know if anybody.

19:35And that brings up one of my eternal points.

19:39And if you go over the history, I'm sickly of basketball.

19:42If you go over the history of basketball and look at who.

19:49How many of the players of the great players.

19:52Were.

19:54Holy were completely touted from Jump Street from high school.

19:58Right.

19:59And lived up to an extraordinary image.

20:02As opposed to the vast majority of great players who turned out to be better than anyone ever thought at the time.

20:11You know.

20:12Okay.

20:13Even if you thought they were going to be great, they turned out to be super great.

20:16And there is the only I don't need this hand to count the number of players who lived up to the super hype.

20:24And the number one example of all time being Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

20:29Right.

20:30The greatest basketball anybody in that he was seventy nine and two in high school and lost two more games in three years of college basketball.

20:38And then won five MVPs.

20:40He's the greatest career from start to finish.

20:44And on the very short list, the Will Chamberlain was if you do follow basketball in the 50s, you knew there was this kid over Brooke High School in Philadelphia.

20:53And that there was this phenomenon.

20:55And he went to Kansas and he became Will Chamberlain and LeBron.

20:59LeBron was a cover boy age 15.

21:02And he certainly lived up to it.

21:04But look at the others of the inner sanctum.

21:07Right.

21:08Magic known vaguely outside of Michigan.

21:12Michael Jordan, not known outside of North Carolina.

21:16Even then.

21:17Okay.

21:18Right.

21:19Larry Bird.

21:20Larry Bird disputed even in his own state that people didn't think he was that good because he couldn't come from French lick because they never turned out anybody before.

21:27And then into an Indiana is very insular and all that.

21:30Okay.

21:31And come on.

21:33No.

21:34Everybody else is better than anybody.

21:38Curry was the seventh pick in the draft.

21:40And he was not highly recruited.

21:41He went to Davidson, which is the D1 school.

21:44That's the thing that gets to me about like about Steph Curry is that he went to Davidson.

21:51I mean, no disrespect.

21:53No disrespect.

21:54No.

21:55I mean, great.

21:56That's like a very right story.

21:57What did Jerry go to Morehead State or something?

21:59Something like that.

22:01Right.

22:02Mississippi Valley State.

22:03That's it.

22:04Mississippi Valley State.

22:05Now Davidson is bigger than that, obviously.

22:07But like, I mean, are you talking about Davidson brought us the greatest three point shooter in the history of the game?

22:14Yeah.

22:15Greatest all around shooter.

22:16Period.

22:17There you go.

22:18I think so.

22:20SGA.

22:21It was a Canadian, by the way.

22:23So talk about untouted in this, you know, going to Kentucky, you know, except for, you know, the Jeff Goodman's that I'm sure knew who, you know, who he was.

22:35But I, you know, anyway, and he's he's he's transcended now.

22:40He's the best guard in the league.

22:42So the thing that I like about this story is that he became it didn't happen overnight.

22:49Like we weren't expecting this.

22:51No, no.

22:52It didn't.

22:53I mean, it just shows it shows it brings some sanity, Bob, to the conversation.

22:57Like you just talked about it.

22:59Like you said, the rookies right now, it's a downrookie class.

23:02I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often because we're looking for these 19 year old kids to be world leaders, you know, and the reality is it takes time for a 19 year old player to grow into a man.

23:16And SGA is a good example that he's a great example.

23:20Yeah.

23:21So that's all.

23:22And I just salute him.

23:24And it's good.

23:25But it's it's a it is interesting.

23:27What do you think?

23:28What's what is the one part about his game that you like the best?

23:36Well, I mean, he's not like a lot of people not getting get his own shot anytime.

23:42I just think he's he's.

23:45Oh, what doesn't he do, you know, and yeah, yeah, he's bigger than I thought, you know, he's bigger, he's he's up to six, five, six, six.

23:57And I always had in my head for a while.

23:59He's only six to six, three.

24:01So he's big.

24:02He's got, you know, I'll say that, you know, this is starting to get a lot of Kobe in his game.

24:07Put it that way.

24:08You know that he Kobe was about that same size.

24:11And now Kobe, Kobe is somewhere in the middle of all this discussion.

24:16He had a he had a in the world of scholastic basketball and the recruiters and the and the the rating services and all.

24:24He was very well known.

24:25I'll give that in high school up at Darby High School in Philadelphia and suburban Philadelphia.

24:31He was well known.

24:33But but not to the extent that didn't get the hype that LeBron got or even the hype that right now that Cooper Flagg is getting.

24:40Right. You know, he's not.

24:42So he didn't have that level.

24:45I don't think so.

24:46But anyway, I just like everything about the SGA.

24:49And apparently very team oriented.

24:51That's what you always look for.

24:53That number one.

24:54You don't hear any butts on him.

24:56No, no, no.

24:58You're right.

24:59Kobe thing is very interesting.

25:00That's right.

25:01Who's picked?

25:02Well, I mean, Charlotte swapped the pick with the Lakers, right?

25:07Yeah.

25:08They did for Divash.

25:10Right.

25:11You know, there's stories out there.

25:14Go ahead.

25:15Yeah.

25:16The guy supposedly wanted to draft them desperately.

25:19But was apparently overruled internally was Calipari when he was at the Nets.

25:26Really?

25:27I'm told.

25:28But I'm trying to remember the reason.

25:31The whole high school thing put off the bosses.

25:36I don't know.

25:37But, you know, that was the point.

25:39You know, it was very early.

25:40We were just returning after a hiatus to the idea of high school players, you know, being drafted.

25:46Right.

25:47You know, after Moses had been.

25:49And then we had to come.

25:51It was Dawkins and Moses, right?

25:53Dawkins and Moses.

25:54Yeah.

25:55And yeah.

25:56And then Bill Willoughby, the poodle Bill Willoughby, there were a couple.

26:02And then it went away for almost a decade until Garnett got it back.

26:08Kevin Garnett resurrected it.

26:10And Kobe, I think, was the second one around or one of the early ones.

26:13Yeah.

26:14But there's still hesitation about drafting high schools.

26:17Yeah.

26:18Kobe was 13th overall.

26:20Yeah.

26:21Well, I'm told that Calipari really wanted them.

26:24And I don't know if he worked out here, but people, everybody saw his workouts were dazzled to a degree.

26:32And nobody more than Calipari, from what I'm told.

26:35Although, obviously, Jerry West was.

26:37That's for sure.

26:38So, yeah.

26:40Yes.

26:41West got it done.

26:42That worked out.

26:44Yes.

26:45That did work out.

26:46That's one of those trades.

26:47You always wonder, would it have worked out in Charlotte like it did in L.A.?

26:50Because they teamed it up with Shaq initially.

26:53No, I don't.

26:55We'll never know.

26:56Those kind of ponderables, the answer is it would have been a different path.

26:59It would have been a very different, for sure.

27:02There's no question.

27:03It would have been different.

27:04We have no idea, for example, exactly how much influence both on and off the court Jerry West had with him.

27:11But I bet it was a lot that he had West around.

27:16And West believed in him.

27:17And I think that was, I mean, he was smart enough.

27:22Remember, he's the son of a player.

27:24He knew damn right well who Jerry West was.

27:26Oh, yeah.

27:27Kobe was smart.

27:28He didn't have to.

27:29He knew damn right well who he was.

27:30His father was a, you know, his father's a whole other story.

27:33I don't want to go off the tangent about Jerry.

27:35But this kid who was very bright and was worldly, of course, he was raised in his formative years in Italy,

27:44where Joe was playing.

27:45Anyway, but he knew damn right well who Jerry West was.

27:48And to have Jerry West as a mentor possibility, I think, enhanced his career.

27:52Yeah.

27:53How do you think, Bob, because I know you're a fan of Jerry West.

27:57Give us an idea of how West could have helped him.

28:00Because I find West to be a fascinating individual.

28:03Well, I'm sure the mental part of the game and, you know, how to navigate the 82 games and how to navigate, you know,

28:12the locker room dynamics and all that stuff.

28:15But technically, whatever, you know, he might have.

28:18And he could have.

28:19Now, I don't.

28:20Without superseding the coach, I'm sure that there was plenty of examples where West could have offered something that Wiley would have even asked him to do.

28:33Or they would have said, Pat, I want to talk to this guy, you know, kind of thing.

28:38When Wiley was his coach, I just think he could offer him a good West was talking about scientific.

28:43Did West understood this game of basketball?

28:45Obviously.

28:46And now he was the one thing I hope he did.

28:50But his personality, he was a dark personality.

28:53He did see the dark side of everything.

28:56So I that could have been a detriment if he imposed himself in that degree.

29:01But I'm sure I'm sure he didn't.

29:02I just think, you know, the idea of all his vast expertise and knowledge of the game and he could, you know, he could have been a good resource for Kobe.

29:12Yeah.

29:13I think the thing about West is just the self-doubt or the I mean, you know, I mean, he pulled him up and he pulled himself out of coaching.

29:22Right.

29:23Yes.

29:26Yes.

29:29He realized I'm speculating.

29:32Right.

29:33He realized he wasn't very good at it.

29:34It wasn't what what coaching, you know, you could offer a tip, a playing tip here and there, you know, with one thing.

29:41But the whole thing with coaching, you know, I think there are aspects of it and that he just didn't feel comfortable and never.

29:49And I think he evaluated himself that he wasn't it really wasn't what he motivated.

29:54He thought it would, but it didn't.

29:55He was much better off in the next level up than he was coaching those 82 games.

30:01It's good stuff.

30:02I mean, I'm glad you brought that up because I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall with a Jerry West Kobe one on one session that could have been something else.

30:11Hey, Bob, time for another break here because we have to pay your huge salary.

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31:48OK, Bob, I've never really thought of the NBA as being a father and son league, but you've done some research.

32:00Yes, and what triggered it was Celtics playing Sacramento the week before last.

32:05And Domantas Sabonis had a career-high 28 rebounds.

32:09He is leading the league in rebounds for the third straight year, which is news to most people, I'm sure.

32:15And he's one of the best all-around big men in the entire NBA.

32:21Unfortunately, he has to play too much of his current time out of position.

32:26He's not a center.

32:27He's a forward.

32:28But he's 6'8", going on 6'9".

32:30But he's a forward and a beautiful, wonderful forward who's capable of triple doubles.

32:35And by the way, Sacramento's playing pretty well lately.

32:37Keep your eye on him.

32:38Anyway, it reminded me how much I admired his father, Barbitas Sabonis, the 7'2 or 3 Lithuanian,

32:47who we first encountered in 1988 Olympics when he was still a member of the USSR before the breakup of the Soviet Union.

32:57And they beat the U.S. in the gold medal game before the pros started playing.

33:02This is when, you know, the old format of the Olympics.

33:06But his father was one of the great players of all time.

33:09And by the time he came to the NBA, he was 30 years old and had Achilles tendon problems.

33:14And we never saw here the full scope of how great he was.

33:19He's one of the most decorated, if not possibly the most decorated European player ever.

33:23He won every award you could possibly win in Europe.

33:26And eventually, you know, he was a three-time Olympian, got to play for his home country by 1992.

33:37I saw him in Melbourne at a game in which he put on a pivot clinic that you couldn't believe he mastered that position.

33:49OK. I started to wonder, I wonder if there's any better father-son duos, you know, ever.

33:55And so I started from scratch thinking about this and started doing some research.

34:01And I've come up with 14, well, 13 former one, at least if not, you know, all-stars played in all-star games.

34:12I've got 13 guys who played in an all-star game with father to son of some merit that in the NBA.

34:19OK. And then the 14th is.

34:22I didn't think there were that many.

34:25Well, and the 14th is a guy, actually 12 out of 14.

34:32The 13th and 14th, one of them is Ernie Vanderwey, who was a Knick utility player off the bench, a good versatile player in the 50s.

34:41Average nine points a game, played two positions.

34:44And of course, he's the father of Kiki. And Kiki was a damn good scorer.

34:49Kiki, you know, Kiki was an all-star player.

34:53OK. The other guy who was not an all-star who's on this list is Jelly Bean Bryant.

35:00Jelly Bean had a long career here, nine years or so, played in Europe, was was was was a serviceable NBA player, but was not an all-star.

35:09However, listen to these names of all-star guys who played in all-star games, who have fathered sons of some note.

35:18To some degree, some better than others.

35:20Sabonis, Curry, Michael Thompson, Dolph Shays, Bill Walton, Gary Payton, Tim Hardaway, Larry Nance.

35:30Jimmy Walker and Rick Barry. And also.

35:37Yeah. OK, that's it. Jimmy Walker, of course, was the father of Jalen Rose.

35:41OK, so I never knew that. I never knew that.

35:47Which what? That he's the father of Jalen Rose?

35:49Yeah, I never knew that. Maybe I did.

35:51Oh, my God. Well, he's the father. And there's a story behind the story there.

35:57Jimmy had no no role in his in his life. Right.

36:01No. And but he's his father and he has no role in his life.

36:05And when Mitch Albom, my colleague and friend at Sports Reporters, was writing a book on the Fab Five back about 30 years ago, 25 plus years ago, he he was interviewing those guys.

36:20He got to know those guys very, very well and spent time in their homes and the whole thing.

36:25And he took he said, John, come with me.

36:28And they went in, they showed him, he put a tape on, he put a cassette on and say, you know who that is?

36:33That's your father. Jalen Rose had never seen Jimmy Walker play.

36:37Wow. Now, around here in in greater Boston and in New England, in Providence, Jimmy Walker is among basketball fans, is a exalted figure.

36:50He's the most terrifying opponent I ever experienced in my life as a college basketball fan was him.

36:56We at B.C. played him four times. He got in this order, 25, 50, 40 and 33.

37:05And we finally beat him that fourth time in that 33 point game.

37:10But he got 50 in Madison Square Garden in the 1986 Holiday Festival Championship game against the 1966 Holiday Festival Championship game.

37:21Anyway, so I did a little research and on this and try to come up with the best players among the sons.

37:31You know, so these are the five. And of course, the first thing that comes to mind is Steph Curry, naturally.

37:38Yeah. Del Curry. Del Curry was a. By the way, no, he didn't play in the All-Star Game.

37:44He was a he was a six man of the year at once. He's a career 40 point shooter.

37:48So, you know, there was a genetic factor. Oh, yeah.

37:53And of course, Steph is the brother of Seth. And we talked about our last time out,

37:58their remarkable juxtapositions and their career field goal percentages,

38:04both overall and three point, which fluctuate on the daily basis.

38:09They were that close. Anyway, there's three point Curry's are sons of a three point shooter.

38:17The Dolph Shays and Danny Shays, Danny Shays at 14 years as a, you know, moderate.

38:25He wasn't he had a career. You can stay around 14 years. You can do something.

38:29Yeah. He's a power forward, right? Yeah. Yeah. Center forward.

38:336-11, you know, hybrid, you know, Dolph Shays.

38:37If you were to pick in the first decade of the NBA, 1946 to 55, pick your all time team.

38:45He's a starting forward. Dolph Shays is the all time great player with the Syracuse Nats and slash 76ers, the whole same franchise.

38:55And he was a player of his time. 6-7 forward. Had a two hand set.

39:00He was a master of the two hand set. This was almost like an overhead from up here.

39:05And a great driver and a 90 percent free throw shooter.

39:09He was a he was a he was a great and a tough guy, tough, rugged.

39:14But he was he would be the best forward of the first 10 years of the NBA, you know, for career.

39:21The other guy that would come in in the mid 50s that would be his fellow starter on the all 50s team would be Bob Pettit.

39:28But Pettit was a rookie 54, 55. Shays was already established by then.

39:33OK, we got Bill Walton. Say no more.

39:36Nick Walton, not a star, but had a 10 year career.

39:42Here's one. Penny Hardaway, not Penny Hardaway, Tim Hardaway.

39:47Tim Senior. Tim Hardaway was a damn good player.

39:52A very undersized, undersized guard, a 17 point career who had six nominations on all league teams.

40:05OK, you know, one first team, three seconds and a third.

40:11He was a damn good player. And I remember Don Nelson when he was with Golden State.

40:14And Don Nelson said after coaching him that the one thing that he had taken away from coaching Hardaway was that he would never want to be without a pure point guard again.

40:26He had tried to get by without a pure point guard and Hardaway was a wonderful pure point guard.

40:30Larry Nance, Sr. Is the father of Larry Nance, Jr., who is now a decent average player.

40:38Larry Nance was an all star quality player and was the first slam dunk champion.

40:44I remember that. I do remember that.

40:46Which I objected to because my feeling is that there should be a height limit on the slam dunk, 6'6".

40:52I'm not interested in 6'9 guys or 7 foot guys dunking. Big deal.

40:57I think they should abolish the dunk contest after Spud Webb won it, but I'm not getting anywhere with that.

41:03But Larry Nance, his father, Jimmy Walker, I mentioned, Jalen Rose.

41:07Jalen Rose, he averaged 20 points three times. You realize that? People don't realize that.

41:12I believe that. No, I get that.

41:14Yeah, he did. He averaged 20 points three times and had a nice career.

41:21And his father would never reach in the pros the level that he did in college, but he was a 16 points a game career scorer, played in all star games.

41:31He had trouble staying in shape, which was predictable looking at that body from day one and had his issues.

41:37But yeah, that's an interesting pairing.

41:41Ernie Vanderwey, I mentioned Ernie Vanderwey with the Knicks and Kiki, who these people should know.

41:47Rick Barry goes without saying, obviously.

41:49Scooter?

41:51No, Scooter's the fourth son that never played. He played for Kansas.

41:55I'm thinking of Brett, Brett Barry.

41:58You got Drew, you got John, the oldest.

42:01John, Brett and Drew.

42:03And Drew was there.

42:06Which one was the slam dunk contest?

42:08One of them. I have to check it out.

42:10But one of them won the slam dunk contest.

42:12I think it was. Oh, here it is.

42:17I got it here.

42:19Oh, no, I got the wrong I got the wrong page.

42:21Anyway, well, I and here's one that might represent the best combination of father son.

42:31In most cases, there was a clear delineation between the level of the father and the level of the son.

42:37You know, even if it's a reasonable level, like Del Curry was a good player, you know, and he was a six man a year one year.

42:46Anyway, and but Steph is the greatest shooter of all time.

42:50Right.

42:52You know, and the others just differentiate.

42:55But how about this one?

42:57You know who Clay Thompson's father was?

43:00David.

43:02Michael.

43:03Michael, not Michael.

43:04David was Skywalker from Denver.

43:06Michael from the Lakers.

43:07Right.

43:08Sorry.

43:09Thompson is a damn good player.

43:11Oh, no, I remember him with the Lakers.

43:14Absolutely.

43:15He was the first pick of the 1979 draft, a.k.a.

43:1978 draft, a.k.a.

43:20Larry Bird and Magic Johnson draft.

43:23He was the first pick.

43:25Oh, yeah.

43:26No, Bob, I remember.

43:28Absolutely.

43:29I'll tell you what.

43:30He was the difference in 1987 to turn the Lakers into the champions that they became beating out the Celtics.

43:37Yeah.

43:39He was with Portland at the All-Star game.

43:43We were talking with Pat Riley and Riley said, we need another player.

43:48He told us this.

43:49We need another player.

43:51And they made the deal.

43:53And his first game was in L.A.

43:57against the Celtics.

43:59And he had not had a practice.

44:02And their famous assistant coach, Bill Burtka, ran him through drills and stuff before the game.

44:08And we watched it, you know.

44:09And he went out and I think came off the bench and I'm going to throw out, got like 10 points and X rebounds and helped turn that game around and help them win that game.

44:16And he went on to become a tremendous, valuable player off the bench for them and lasted for several more years.

44:22I think that may be the best.

44:25And Clay Thompson should need no introduction to anyone that's listening to us.

44:28Oh, yeah, of course.

44:29I would agree.

44:30So, anyway, it's a fun topic.

44:33Now, I got this for you as we close.

44:36I'm verging on babbling.

44:39I know that.

44:40You have to stop me.

44:41You can always babble, Bob.

44:42We love it when you babble.

44:44All right.

44:45All right.

44:46How about this?

44:47If we play a game, okay, the dads versus the sons.

44:51Oh, good one.

44:53Okay.

44:56For the dads, our pick of center, we've got Arvinas Sabonis or Bill Walton.

45:02And Sabonis was described as a youth as, quote, Bill Walton with a three-pointer, unquote.

45:12So we've got to pick between those two.

45:14We're not going to play them together.

45:16Starting forwards, we have Rick Barry and Dolph Chaves.

45:19Oh, I omitted one, Gary Payton.

45:23That's right.

45:24Gary Payton.

45:25Well, the father was better than the kid.

45:27My starting guards in the dads are Gary Payton and Tim Hardaway.

45:32Coming off the bench, we've got Jimmy Walker.

45:35We've got Larry Nance Sr.

45:37We've got Michael Thompson.

45:38We're in good shape.

45:40The kiddies got one problem.

45:44We don't have a center unless you count Danny Chaves.

45:47Well, yeah.

45:48Danny Chaves ought to be the center.

45:50But from then on, you ready?

45:52Sabonis or Damontis, the current Sabonis,

45:57Stephon Curry, Blake Thompson, and Kobe Bryant.

46:03Yeah.

46:04Now, Bryant, that would make them.

46:06That's the three guards except that Bryant can play instead.

46:09It's irrelevant.

46:11That's not bad, huh?

46:12That's a pretty good team.

46:14I have great respect for the elders, but I like the kids in that matchup.

46:20Well, anyway, it's fun to kick around.

46:24Bob, that was a great topic.

46:26Thank you for the work.

46:28That was very enjoyable because I never thought there were that many combos.

46:33But after you mentioned all of them, I said, oh, I remember them.

46:36I remember them.

46:37Sure.

46:38But yes.

46:39Well, my first thing is I tried to do everything from memory,

46:42which, of course, is always a fatal mistake.

46:46And I got pride in it.

46:49So then I started really researching it.

46:51And wow.

46:52But I think it's a fun topic anyway.

46:55But anyway, there we go.

46:56That's all I have.

46:58Bob, that's more than enough, my friend.

47:00We'll talk to you again next week.

47:02Bob Bryant, Gary Tang, we're brought to you by Price Picks,

47:04the exclusive daily fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network.

47:07Pick more, pick less with Price Picks.

Are Celtics Fans Expecting Too Much from Derrick White? | Bob Ryan & Jeff Goodman Podcast

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