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00:00Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, Stalin here we are again with another installment of this, which is a 1 plus 1 newscast, closing the week with rains, there are 16 provinces under alert by thunderstorms in the entire national territory, and yesterday it rained in many of these provinces and throughout the day, almost all of the national territory.
00:30Well, we have to be careful, the forecast is that it will continue to rain today, at least in half of the territory, 16 provinces, the COE has made the warning so that we take precautions and take care of ourselves, so that Friday ends the week and ends with rain, May being its August.
00:58Yes, May has always been rainy, that's why it was celebrated yesterday, the day of the farmer, the day of the farmer was commemorated yesterday with an act of mockery, as we had announced here, it was foreseen that it would be the president of the republic, just because of the rain, it was not, because the atmospheric conditions were not suitable for flying in a helicopter, a much more delicate ship.
01:28And more agile, also for the government agenda.
01:31And it's not that far, but the president had a very busy agenda yesterday, and then he decided not to go, but the Minister of Agriculture was there, leading the government, and that Minister of Agriculture spoke in the act, highlighting what he understands are significant advances in agricultural production in the country,
01:57and he said that the main areas, food, have not been missing from the table of the Dominicans, there has been a sufficient supply, he also made a special emphasis on the production of grapes, which is a new phenomenon in Dominican agriculture, it is not traditional,
02:15the production of bananas, yucca, beavers, rice, is something else, and of bananas, the exportations of Guinea.
02:30Yes, we have the national capital and a significant level of export, especially in Europe, the main location.
02:36Yes, the main market, but we are exporting bananas to Japan, and we don't export more because we don't have more, it's that simple, it's the situation, but the migratory policy now, I'm moving on to another topic, now has the center of the debate in the Economic and Social Council.
03:05All the cannons are lined up.
03:07The date on which the Council will be convened has not been set, but that is coming, it is running around, and the novelty, the great novelty, is that at the opening of the discussions, Stalin, will be the four who met the day before yesterday, President Luis Abel Naderi, Paulito Mejia,
03:30and it seems that there is a lot of coincidence in the issue of anti-Haitian policy, or the policy on the Haitian issue, in Haiti there is a lot of coincidence, and the parties are competing to see which is more anti-Haitian, anti-Haitian presence in the Dominican Republic.
03:51Yes, definitely, although they will necessarily have to address the issue of regularization, because the sectors that are asking for it are growing, there are the…
04:01And the rural sectors for the national economy?
04:03Yes, they are very important sectors, now it is the real estate sector, the real estate sector, which is added to the requests that some areas of agriculture have made, of agroecology, also of construction in the general sense, not only housing.
04:24Yes, Coprobida has proposed 87,000, has proposed Coprobida.
04:26Yes, you had the bananeros who planted 15,000, the rice growers who were about 20,000, and you are still there, and the number is going to increase a lot. It must be said that the sugar mills require labor.
04:40Everyone lives in the hands of labor.
04:42I was commenting yesterday on a fact that we all know, when that regularization plan was implemented, many agroecological companies paid the cost, covered the cost of regularization, to have their workers stable there in the workplaces.
05:07Of course, some companies saw the following, after the workers acquired their legal status, they emigrated from one company to another, and above all that emigration, because the construction did not do that, basically the agroecology, and they emigrated to the urban centers to work.
05:29I can mention two examples of this situation, which was the case of the sugar mill industry. The vicines paid to regulate the employees they had, and the bananeros did it as well, as a corporation, as a set. They also paid for that documentalization process to avoid this problem that we have today.
05:59It is a cycle that generates a level of concern on the part of productivity. Alberto, you still have the feeling sometimes, and I hope that this time, in which the Economic and Social Council will have the opportunity to generate this conversation between all sectors of Dominican society, that the Dominican state understands the opportunity it has in the face of the issue of regularization.
06:23I say this because we know that there are sectors that, no matter how much effort the Dominican government and the Dominican state make to put control of the migratory issue, will not be satisfied.
06:33However, the state, as such, the Dominican government, has a responsibility to make appropriate decisions that guarantee the productivity of the sectors and guarantee the conditions in terms of complying with their own laws.
06:51And here, what I think is that, in the face of the catastrophe that Haiti is experiencing in political and institutional terms, the Dominican Republic, what is best for it is to have clarity about how many Haitian nationals the Dominican Republic has, in what conditions and where they are, and that cannot be done without the regularization plan.
07:10Well, here, there is madness. Look, the Constitutional Court granted 32 Dominican Haitian nationalities to the majority of Haitian nationals.
07:25They have done it. You can't imagine what it means to achieve a state of this nature. That is to say, not only for the Haitian nationals, but for the Dominican Republic.
07:38The issue of residencies for foreigners is complicated.
07:42But for the Haitian nationals it is more complicated.
07:44Yes, the route is more critical.
07:46And there was that sentence.
07:48Well, they are already entering that sentence.
07:53There is, above all, that little group that has an organization that seems to be paramilitary, but enjoys a lot of coverage in the media.
08:04Yes, it is legitimized, very legitimized.
08:06They are presenting it almost as a social organization.
08:10Well, speaking of the summit, you told me that you were calling to consult with them.
08:12Well, you can imagine this.
08:14My God, what is happening to us? We have gone crazy.
08:18Of those dusts, these two.
08:20They are the interlocutors of the Dominican society and the authorities.
08:24The Dominican society is not.
08:26God forbid.
08:28It is a country where there are so many entities.
08:33It is a country where there are so many opinions of business groups.
08:37For example.
08:39Productive groups of the Dominican Republic.
08:41This is an incredible thing.
08:43But hey, there is that.
08:45There is that reality.
08:47Look.
08:49Everyone says, leave the undocumented.
08:51Of course.
08:53The one who has an undocumented status is in a very, very uncomfortable situation.
08:57You can't say, you crossed and got here at once and take it.
09:03No, not at all.
09:05That does not happen.
09:07But gentlemen, we are talking about people here who are 30 years old.
09:11They live in the Dominican Republic.
09:13And they remain in an undocumented condition.
09:17The argument that they are not documented because they do not bring anything that identifies them as such is false.
09:25It's false.
09:27It's false.
09:29Because when the regularization plan was made,
09:31there were about 200,000 who presented their documentation.
09:35Some of them had passports.
09:37Some had not.
09:39Cells.
09:41Birth certificates.
09:43And also a group, especially the oldest,
09:47had the contracts and the papers that the CEA gave them when they came here.
09:54Because they brought it.
09:56And that was the document, the carnet,
09:58that accredited them as residents of the Dominican Republic.
10:02It serves, at least, to know what the name is.
10:04And it serves, at least,
10:06to know the time.
10:08Of course.
10:10But it seems that in the economic and social council,
10:14the issue is going to be debated.
10:16Because some parties are already assuming it.
10:18And they are assuming it.
10:20Why? Because the parties are also spokespersons of the interests of society.
10:22Yes.
10:24And it's not the groups
10:26of human rights.
10:28It's not the groups that represent
10:30the Dominicans of Haitian descent.
10:32The businessmen.
10:34No, no, no.
10:36It's the business interests
10:38that are being listened to.
10:40And that's going to have to be discussed.
10:42Of course.
10:44The economic and social council has an advantage.
10:46It's a global institution
10:48because it's created by the constitution.
10:50It's quite representative.
10:52There are 45 people in the council.
10:54And it has just been renovated.
10:56There are 15 from the social sector, right?
10:5815 from the business sector.
11:00And 15 from the government sector.
11:02It's a tripartite organization.
11:04Let's see what happens.
11:06And since a part of them has just been renovated,
11:08especially the social sector,
11:10I think there are great actors.
11:12Yes, but in the sense that
11:14the government's representations, for example,
11:16are given by the institutions.
11:18And the business sector
11:20has also been changed.
11:22It's been renovated.
11:24It's all been renovated.
11:26Of course, there are people
11:28who stay in all sectors.
11:30Yes, because they didn't change
11:32in the institutions.
11:34There is even a democratic mechanism
11:36for the election.
11:38What worries me is that
11:40mainly there are
11:42NGO organizations,
11:44technical organizations.
11:47That's right.
11:49And the great absence of the debate,
11:51Adalberto,
11:53and hopefully
11:55this space of SES
11:57can open a small window for that,
11:59is that the Dominican intellectual class
12:01is not taking a stand on this issue.
12:03For example, if a traditionally
12:05participating institution
12:07has been absent from these debates,
12:09in many cases it opened them,
12:11like the Autonomous University of Santo Domingo
12:13has been absent from the debate.
12:15No, the Autonomous University of Santo Domingo
12:17has also been right-winged.
12:19It's better if they don't speak.
12:21Because when they do,
12:23they can do more harm.
12:25But what's also happening is that
12:27the progressive thought
12:29in the Dominican Republic
12:31is being cornered.
12:33Here they strip you of everything.
12:35Here they harass you.
12:37Here there is freedom to even attack people.
12:39But didn't you see the march
12:41that was held on the 28th?
12:43On May 1st, yes.
12:45The march that was held.
12:47They were groups
12:49prepared to attack.
12:51And they attacked.
12:53They destroyed vehicles.
12:55Hey, I'm not intimidating anyone.
12:57You have to be very brave,
12:59and you have to be very willing
13:01to do that.
13:03So that's happening here with the thought.
13:05Here, these groups,
13:07headed especially by
13:09this paramilitary group
13:12of the old Dominican Guard.
13:14This group has penetrated
13:16intellectual spaces
13:18such as
13:20the National Library,
13:22Autele,
13:24the Duartean Institute.
13:26No, the Duartean Institute, gentlemen,
13:28chose a more neutral, more equanimous person
13:30and they dismissed him the other day.
13:32They dismissed him.
13:34A doctor who is also a historian.
13:36And also a biographer
13:38of Juan Pablo Duarte.
13:40Not just any person.
13:42What happens is that
13:44it's not the whole story that you want to study.
13:46It's a part and a focus.
13:48Hey, it's an incredible thing.
13:50Fanaticism has been imposed on Dominican society.
13:52Definitely.
13:54Hopefully, we will overcome that,
13:56because that is not democracy itself.
13:58Right?
14:00And now we are talking,
14:02putting ourselves as an example
14:04of the strength of this democracy,
14:06of the maturity of this democracy.
14:08With the three ex-presidents.
14:10And it's true that it's a good indicator.
14:12But the other is missing.
14:14There are many others missing.
14:16There are many others missing.
14:18Here, tolerance is really needed.
14:20Tolerance.
14:22Because we all respond
14:24with aggressiveness.
14:26Definitely.
14:28And speaking of tolerance,
14:30a piece of news
14:32that stands out in almost all media
14:34today is the threat
14:37that Listin Diagno is receiving.
14:39That's right.
14:41They are telling him, take out a piece of news.
14:43In fact, they took it out.
14:45They took it down.
14:47Not Listin, the company.
14:49Take out a piece of news from the digital platform
14:51or else we will take down the platform.
14:53We will destroy the platform.
14:55And we are talking about a company
14:57that has its headquarters in the United States.
14:59And it's doing that.
15:01And the piece of news
15:03that it refers to
15:05is an agreement
15:07that Lisandro Macarrulla
15:09signed with the Public Ministry.
15:11The agreement is transcribed.
15:13And in the agreement
15:15this young man admits
15:17that he committed
15:19the acts that are being imputed
15:21and he returned money
15:23to the Dominican Republic.
15:25Who returns money
15:27if you haven't received it?
15:29That's the issue.
15:31It's like the case
15:33of the corruption files.
15:35They returned money, but you didn't receive it.
15:37No, but this is false.
15:39This is the Public Ministry.
15:41And you have to show your innocence.
15:43Yes, but they returned it to you.
15:47Thousands of millions of pesos
15:49have been returned
15:51by the people who are involved
15:53in these files.
15:55And they return it
15:57after admitting
15:59that there was certainly pain.
16:02It's just that...
16:04What else do you want?
16:06There is an important element here.
16:08In the last few weeks,
16:10the debate on freedom of expression
16:12and the diffusion of thought
16:14has been on the national agenda
16:16both because of the proposal
16:18to amend the law,
16:20but also because of these demonstrations.
16:22The Inter-American Press Society
16:24has set a position regarding this.
16:26But I would go a little further.
16:28I was struck by the statement
16:30of the Macarrulla family
16:32where the company's request
16:34was disconnected.
16:36And what I remembered
16:38was a very popular expression
16:40that said that it wasn't me,
16:42it was T.T.
16:44Because who else could have the interest?
16:46It calls attention to suspicion
16:48that this is generated.
16:50I think this is a bad omen
16:52in general terms
16:54for the issue of freedom
16:56and the exercise of the Dominican Republic press.
16:58Let's prepare ourselves for what could come.
17:00That's right.
17:02Well, that's exactly what I wanted to say.
17:04This is another threat to freedom of expression.
17:06Freedom of expression of thought.
17:08With all due respect,
17:10the media
17:12must act
17:14when it comes to
17:16disseminating the information they receive.
17:18Verified information.
17:20Verified facts, etc.
17:22And that is a feature
17:24that fortunately has remained
17:27in the traditional media
17:29of the Dominican Republic.
17:31Even in some alternative media.
17:33That's one thing.
17:35And the other thing
17:37that I would like to say
17:39is that you have seen
17:41the noise on social media
17:43due to the possibility
17:45that there is a law
17:47that regulates and limits them.
17:49And sectors that are already
17:51defending that
17:53social media and the digital part
17:55Let me tell you
17:57so that you know
17:59that more than 85%
18:01of the people
18:03who find out
18:05on social media
18:07what is happening
18:09and who comment and comment
18:11on social media
18:13is content that is published
18:15by traditional media.
18:17Did you know that the newspapers
18:19Listin Diario, Diario Libre,
18:21Periodico Hoy,
18:23Noticias Televisión, Noticias S&N,
18:25Este Canal,
18:27this group
18:29concentrates almost 85%
18:31of the consultation.
18:33The other is a minority
18:35and is talking to the majority.
18:37Impressing.
18:39Impressing.
18:41And there are people
18:43who have digital newspapers
18:45that are not invented by people.
18:47What are you talking about?
18:50The serious thing about that
18:52is that many of those
18:54so-called digital newspapers
18:56or influencers
18:58receive funds from the state.
19:00But there are many
19:02Many of the cases
19:04that we have seen
19:06and that are being subjected to the justice
19:08or already in the process of judicialization
19:10when you see the grill of ads
19:12that support them
19:14are mainly government publicity.
19:16And it is likely
19:18that the state is giving in
19:20to blackmail
19:22so that they don't attack me.
19:24I remember
19:26a famous journalist
19:28and television commentator
19:30who one day judged people
19:32Bad, bad, bad.
19:34Bad, bad.
19:36Gonzalo Sánchez deplored him
19:38when he was bad.
19:40He finished him off
19:42and said, the best minister in this country
19:44is this one and the other.
19:46Yes, but people knew.
19:48But people knew.
19:50Not everyone knows.
19:52That's the thing.
19:54In a society like this
19:56there are people
19:58who are prey
20:00to this type of situation.
20:02And that was instituted
20:04as a model for a part
20:06of that class of communicators
20:08and journalists as well.
20:10Yes.
20:12Look, before we finish
20:15for today
20:17here in the studio
20:19we have to say that
20:21the public hospitals
20:23were closed
20:25on Friday.
20:27It's been 48 hours.
20:29They are leaving empty-handed.
20:31It was a success because they closed everything
20:33according to the Dominican Medical College.
20:35It was a huge failure for the health care users
20:37which is a right
20:39that they denied.
20:41And for the claim they were looking for.
20:43They didn't get the reposition
20:45of the 14 doctors
20:47who, according to my department of public health,
20:49didn't meet the requirements
20:51in the institutions where they worked.
20:53Let's see what happened.
20:55However, it caught my attention
20:57and I'm going to say it here.
20:59A press release
21:01from the Coalition
21:03for a dignified social security
21:05that gave a total backing
21:07to the medical awards
21:09in relation to that paralysis.
21:11I had the idea
21:13that that coalition defended
21:15Look, I'm going to make a criticism
21:17a question.
21:19That coalition defended
21:21the users of the services.
21:23The users of the social security system.
21:25And it turns out
21:27that among the users
21:29of the social security
21:3198%
21:33are insured.
21:35And of that 98%
21:3757%
21:4057%
21:42are insured.
21:44And where they have to go
21:46is to the public hospitals.
21:48Do you think
21:50that
21:52it justifies
21:54the suspension of the services
21:56that we are talking about
21:585 million, almost 6 million
22:00of those who have the lowest poverty.
22:02That it justifies
22:04depriving them
22:06of the right they have
22:08in order to improve
22:10the working conditions
22:12of a sector
22:14that is important.
22:16Because the medical sector
22:18is extremely important.
22:20It's a key piece.
22:22But if we talk about rules,
22:24the rules should apply to everyone.
22:26Definitely.
22:28So we'll see when they come.
22:30Today, in the morning,
22:32the school is going to announce new measures.
22:34God bless you.
22:36And hopefully they'll use other methods.
22:38Because it's legitimate that they claim rights.
22:40Now, the form implies.
22:42But you can't involve
22:44all the doctors
22:46in the fight for such a local issue.
22:4815.
22:5014.
22:52That's unusual.
22:54And that's why you have in the state
22:56almost 18,000 doctors
22:58who work in the state.
23:00You're going to have people who have been doing this for a long time
23:02who are not exercising any function.
23:04Well, it's sad what's happening.
23:06Ladies and gentlemen,
23:08we have to take a break.
23:10We're going to take a break.
23:12And we'll be back.
23:14We have Candido Mercedes, a sociologist,
23:16and also an obligated and historical
23:18Pertulian from this house.
23:20He's coming every Friday.
23:22He's going to be back soon.
23:24Stay with us.
23:28Good morning
23:30to those who are tuning in
23:33to the program.
23:35And thank you to those who have been following us
23:37since we started.
23:39Here's Candido Mercedes.
23:41You know him.
23:43He's one of the oldest analysts
23:45in the country.
23:47He's been a professor for a long time.
23:49He's a university professor.
23:51Candido.
23:53Good morning.
23:55And your friend.
23:57This is my son.
23:59But here he is.
24:01And we invited him
24:03to help us understand
24:05this national and institutional
24:07political scenario.
24:09What did you think
24:11of the summit, professor?
24:17Democracy,
24:19the basis of democracy,
24:21is a dialogic culture.
24:23You can't understand the maturity
24:25of a democracy when the main
24:27political actors can't get together.
24:29I would say
24:31that this should have happened
24:3320 years ago.
24:35Since we passed law 285-04
24:37on immigration,
24:39political actors should have
24:41because the problems
24:43that are
24:45structural and at the same time
24:47are problems of the country,
24:49problems of the state.
24:51We can't allow
24:53Haitian problems
24:55to be visualized
24:58with their agenda here
25:00because they don't even have
25:02the agenda of the party program.
25:04So no.
25:06That's extraordinary.
25:08And that sends an internal message.
25:10We all won.
25:12Lionel won, Danilo won,
25:14Abinadet won, the country won.
25:16And the semiotic
25:18of the international image
25:20is extraordinary.
25:22I hope that
25:24is part of the political culture
25:27of the Dominican Republic.
25:29So it's more than a photograph, right?
25:31No, and also
25:33the expectations.
25:35There were public opinion makers
25:37who are sorry.
25:39You know more than I do
25:41but the problem of a journalist,
25:43of a communicator,
25:45the Pope says it in his first homily.
25:47Look at it there.
25:49Communication cannot be noisy
25:51or muscular.
25:53It must be based on solidarity.
25:56The communicators and the journalists
25:58cannot enter
26:00the image of time and history.
26:02And that's what we are.
26:04So the Dominican Republic
26:06has to have an agenda in the country
26:08in vital points.
26:10Not of parties, but a state route.
26:12And that
26:14of the Haitian issue,
26:16the Haitian presence.
26:18So it wasn't photos.
26:20We didn't expect it.
26:22A common agenda of four key points.
26:25Look, for example,
26:27no Dominican governor
26:29since the immigration law was approved
26:31has applied it.
26:33But today the problem,
26:35Adalberto, is not immigration.
26:37No, no.
26:39Because people are looking at immigration.
26:41The problem is national security,
26:43gentlemen.
26:45The danger that that means.
26:47And that cannot be that a president
26:49is proposing things
26:51and from the opposition with another
26:54That's good. Only with the president.
26:56That's what presidents say.
26:58Look at what's happening.
27:02That's vital for the Dominican Republic.
27:04It's a national security problem.
27:06A problem that really applies to the immigration law.
27:08Hey, 21 years later,
27:10it's good.
27:14The law was discussed.
27:16It was important.
27:18It wasn't applied.
27:20Remember it was in the government of
27:22Hippolyta Mejia.
27:24Almost full.
27:26That's what I'm going to review.
27:28The law is approved.
27:30The regulation is not approved.
27:32Then the regulation
27:34is discussed and deposited
27:36in the hands of the president of the republic
27:38who was called Leonel Fernandez.
27:40When the first year was completed,
27:42I think it was the first year
27:44of that
27:46earthquake
27:49In 2010.
27:51In 2010.
27:53The first year was completed.
27:55We organized
27:57a special program on this channel.
27:59And we interviewed the president of Haiti
28:01and the one from here, Leonel Fernandez.
28:05We interviewed Juan Bolivar and me
28:07in the palace itself.
28:10And a key issue we asked him
28:12was the regulation.
28:14And Leonel Fernandez said,
28:16I'm going to approve it.
28:19Because, remember,
28:21the Ministry of Interior and Police
28:23was the one who designed it.
28:25It wasn't done.
28:27He left and didn't do it.
28:29And a crisis came,
28:31because of the crisis,
28:33in 2011.
28:35It lasted seven years.
28:37But right now,
28:39people are not looking at the context.
28:43Haiti has a problem
28:45from 50 years ago, I suppose.
28:48But even so,
28:50with the earthquake in 2010,
28:52there was political stability.
28:54There was a president,
28:56legal and legitimate.
28:58So, the problem of migration
29:00is that
29:02it's overflowing,
29:04because Haiti is in total dissolution.
29:06It's a poli-crisis, a social crisis.
29:0870% is starving.
29:10Institutional crisis,
29:12political crisis, a crisis of all dimensions.
29:14So you can't evaluate me.
29:17With 2010.
29:19And look, it was an earthquake that killed 200,000.
29:21But even in 2010,
29:23the ENI survey
29:25from 2011,
29:27registered that the Dominican Republic
29:29at that time had been
29:31the biggest moment in Dominican history
29:33of greater migration.
29:35And we have to understand it.
29:37So, a country where we have
29:39376 kilometers of borders,
29:41even if you put 10,000 soldiers there,
29:43when you divide 376,
29:45that gives you 2.7 soldiers per kilometer.
29:47It's not possible.
29:49This has to be a country agenda
29:51so that citizens also become aware.
29:53Because you meet a motorist
29:55who crosses to Haiti and brings you three Haitians
29:57for 5,000 pesos each.
29:59They leave him at home for three days.
30:01That went up a long time ago.
30:0310,000, 15,000.
30:05Yes, yes, yes.
30:07Yes, because the crisis is useful for that.
30:09Exactly, exactly.
30:11So it's a country problem, a state problem.
30:14It's like, for example,
30:16you, an expert in health,
30:18have lowered a little
30:20the problem of
30:22pregnancy in girls and adolescents.
30:24The other year,
30:266,700 girls and adolescents
30:28gave birth,
30:30but there was no man in prison.
30:32And there is a law that contemplates it.
30:34And there is a law that contemplates it.
30:36So there is a problem.
30:38We are the leading country
30:40in pregnancy in girls and adolescents.
30:43It's inconceivable.
30:45When you look at it,
30:47short, medium and long-term,
30:49it's a social drama.
30:51On the one hand, there is the economic growth
30:53of the Dominican Republic,
30:55and on the other,
30:57the demonstrations that serve as indicators
30:59for poverty.
31:01Because the adolescent pregnancy
31:03is a related indicator.
31:05What happens is that we are a porophobic society,
31:07as Adela Cortina says.
31:09That is, a society that grows,
31:12that is at $12,400 per inhabitant.
31:14However, you have social indicators
31:16of Sub-Saharan Africa.
31:18Why? Because of the terrible distribution
31:20of wealth.
31:22For example, the femicide.
31:24When you look at it,
31:26you do the study,
31:28you do the task.
31:30Of every 100 femicides,
31:3287% are of
31:34middle, low class.
31:36Middle and low class
31:38that apply it.
31:41What else commits femicide?
31:43Police, military,
31:45merchants and drivers.
31:47When you look at
31:49the degree of education
31:51of these people,
31:53there is a problem.
31:55It is not exclusive to them,
31:57but significantly in this population.
31:59Professor, let's talk about a topic
32:01that you like, the topic of corruption.
32:03There are those who point out
32:05that there is a certain
32:07stagnation in the fight against corruption.
32:10And it is not explained why
32:12cases that have been detested
32:14by the government
32:16have not reached the courts.
32:18And the cases of previous governments
32:20are still without resolution.
32:22Look what happens.
32:24When we talk about justice here,
32:26the Dominican society
32:28includes a part of it
32:30in its imagination.
32:32But justice has
32:34a hierarchical process.
32:36It has three parts.
32:38It has the judiciary,
32:40which has played its role.
32:42It has the judges.
32:44And it has the lawyers.
32:46Exactly.
32:48Generally, those lawyers
32:50who defend those characters
32:52are good lawyers.
32:54The best.
32:56And they know how to look for
32:58the cracks for what you call
33:00the trapizonda and the chicana
33:02to look for the dead,
33:04to see if it reaches the period of extinction.
33:07And the judicial power?
33:09The judicial power has advanced
33:11in the last 20 or 30 years,
33:13but it is still slow
33:15and deeply expensive.
33:17And you know that late justice
33:19is almost denied justice.
33:21That is one of the challenges.
33:23Even the president,
33:25who I like very much,
33:27Luis Henry Molina.
33:29He is a nice man.
33:31Decent.
33:33What I like most about him
33:36is his political logic.
33:38There are people on the left
33:40that I don't want
33:42to drink coffee with.
33:44He is his decency.
33:46He is humble.
33:48He recognizes
33:50that one of the problems
33:52of late justice
33:54is the judicial amorosity.
33:56But beyond that,
33:58the corruption files
34:00have always been slow
34:02and difficult here
34:05But how many judges
34:07do you have
34:09in the Dominican Republic?
34:11Look,
34:13here we need
34:15three times as many judges
34:17as there are in the Dominican Republic.
34:19Because this is a society
34:21that is full of conflict
34:23at all levels.
34:25While Sweden, Finland and Norway
34:27are dismantling
34:29the prisons
34:31because there is no one to put in jail.
34:34Social capital and social cohesion
34:36are at their highest levels.
34:38In the Dominican Republic,
34:40we celebrate
34:42that we are making prisons.
34:44What are the countries
34:46that have the most prisoners and prisons?
34:48The Dominican Republic and the United States.
34:50What is that?
34:52A sociological synonym
34:54that we are doing badly
34:56in terms of social order.
34:58The United States is the country
35:00with the most prisoners
35:02with 27,000 prisoners
35:04but 63% preventive.
35:06What does that tell you?
35:08That this is a terrible social damage.
35:10There are people who are 10 and 15 years old
35:12because they stole a sausage.
35:14Corruption.
35:16Let's get to the point.
35:18What happens
35:20with the current government?
35:22It got a lot of support
35:24when it began
35:26to establish
35:28files against corruption
35:31and impunity.
35:33Here we are going to punish the one who steals.
35:35It did it with its own government.
35:37It put in front
35:39of the Directorate
35:41of Government Ethics
35:43a woman
35:45with credibility.
35:47A monument
35:49of credibility.
35:51It also put in front
35:53of the Directorate
35:55of Purchasing and Contracting
35:57a woman
36:00who was not a political activist
36:02but a technician
36:04committed to the best cause
36:06of the country.
36:08Applause
36:10from the sectors that had fought against it.
36:12But,
36:14Mrs. Milagro says
36:16that she has prepared
36:18dozens of files
36:20that nobody knows
36:22what happened.
36:24They are not rejected,
36:26but they are not in the courts
36:29debating.
36:31What happens with this?
36:33There is a loud voice.
36:35Yes, yes.
36:37They were very good
36:39on their part.
36:41They are saying,
36:43we are monitoring
36:45what is happening
36:47with those files
36:49that we sent to them.
36:51Now, remember,
36:53when Mrs. Miriam
36:55came, she said that she found
36:58and there are about 600
37:00corruption files.
37:02One of the problems
37:04is that in the courts
37:06the judges need
37:08each file.
37:10You can
37:12find that it has
37:14a criminal record,
37:16but you have to send
37:18it to the Public Prosecutor's Office
37:20and you have to put
37:22special lawyers and auditors
37:24with respect to the deviation
37:27because it can be a crime
37:29that has to do
37:31with engineering.
37:33You have to look for a forensic engineer
37:35to determine if it is true.
37:37The process is slow.
37:39Now, I'm going to tell you something.
37:41Because as I tell you one,
37:43I tell you the other.
37:45Suppose that it has slowed down
37:47or that it is not so
37:49furious anymore,
37:51but all the international reports
37:53tell you that we have improved.
37:55Maybe not the speed that you want,
37:57that I want, and that Montero wants.
37:59But, for example,
38:01Transparencia Internacional said
38:03that in the last five years
38:05seven countries had improved
38:07significantly in terms of transparency.
38:09And among them was the Dominican Republic.
38:11If you look at
38:13the ability to fight
38:15corruption, we were
38:17of the 15 countries evaluated
38:19by this international agency,
38:21we were in the 13th and we are in the 5th.
38:24We have improved.
38:26Not in the levels that I would like.
38:28Because corruption in the Dominican Republic...
38:30But you also
38:32add to the voices
38:34that claim
38:36that files such as the Intran
38:40that created a scandal.
38:42Has it been addressed,
38:44at least that there is an answer
38:46to that file?
38:48Yes.
38:50To deepen all that,
38:53so that it is channeled
38:55in an institutional and judicial way.
38:57Because there are actors
38:59who are involved
39:01who are capable of being interviewed
39:03and start throwing mud.
39:05As they are doing in this case, for example.
39:07Yesterday, I saw
39:09on one of those YouTube portals
39:11a person
39:13who is accused...
39:15The pigeon throwing the shotgun.
39:17So, it's part of the...
39:19One important part
39:22of all this debate
39:24in some way,
39:26could fall
39:28on the ground
39:30of an institution
39:32within the Dominican institutional infrastructure
39:34which is the Accounting Chamber.
39:36There we have to make a balance.
39:38But we are going to leave it for after the break.
39:40But I want to know
39:42your position on the evaluation of what was
39:44and the projection of what is coming and what is being done.
39:46We are going to leave it for after the break
39:48because Rafa
39:51has us trapped.
39:53What was he saying?
39:55Well, we are going to start with
39:57Candido Mercedes.
39:59He is a sociologist,
40:01activist and leader,
40:03I would say, of civil society organizations.
40:05He is a coordinator of PC.
40:07And he is a coordinator of participation.
40:11Look, you have to keep
40:13bringing people
40:15to keep
40:17making that law visible.
40:19That law, in that article you have there,
40:21we are greeting it.
40:23Candido Mercedes
40:25and PC have a very good document
40:27around
40:29the anteproject.
40:31Yesterday we had Lady around here
40:33and she just told us.
40:35So there are people
40:37who are... I don't know why
40:39Rodriguez said that
40:41he was going to propose to remove the digital part.
40:43I want to know what that means.
40:45And that must not be removed.
40:48Look, a law or the rules
40:50are part and product
40:52of the progress of a society
40:54and the power relations.
40:56You can't, in the middle of a sector,
40:58consensus does not mean 100%
41:00that we agree.
41:02For the first time you find
41:04actors of civil society
41:06who are on a different path
41:08and they agreed.
41:10When you see the association
41:12of newspapers,
41:14those are the employers,
41:17but when you see
41:19the school of journalists,
41:21those are the press workers
41:23and they have agreed.
41:25But when you see decent people,
41:27for example, there is Elmo Genia Costa,
41:29there is Erick Raffour,
41:31a very good lawyer, decent.
41:33What did they build?
41:35We are 20 years old
41:37and that law is 63 years old,
41:39from 1962.
41:41And we are 30 years old,
41:43arguing that we have to change it.
41:46But remember when President Fernandez
41:48created the commission
41:50headed by
41:52Rafael Molina Murillo,
41:54the law was made.
41:56The project.
41:58But Hippolytus
42:00sent it to Congress.
42:02The Senate approved it,
42:04we are talking about 2000,
42:06and it perished in the chamber of deputies.
42:0825 years later we are talking about that.
42:10And there are people who say
42:12no, no, those who go and argue there
42:15are articles, as a sociologist would say,
42:17everything that the human being does
42:19can be improved.
42:21For example, PCA,
42:23which is a document,
42:25but it tells you,
42:27article 9, article 13,
42:29article 20, article 23,
42:31article 36,
42:33order 10 and paragraph 1,
42:35article 38, article 53,
42:37article 59,
42:39you have to revise it.
42:41But the law itself is good.
42:44The president of the Senate
42:46announced
42:48that this project is going to be discussed
42:50and it is going to be made public.
42:52Yes, but at first,
42:54I don't see that Nancy,
42:56who I recognize has her competence,
42:58says, well, so that they don't succumb
43:00in Congress, we are going to get rid of it.
43:02No, you can't.
43:04Nancy is
43:06perhaps
43:08one of the very few,
43:10no more than five,
43:12who have specialized
43:14in press.
43:16Exactly, yes.
43:18And he has been the one who has contributed
43:20the most to the debate, to the discussion.
43:22He has even taken initiatives
43:24that were taken to
43:26the Constitutional Court
43:28to remove the article of that old law
43:30of 1961.
43:32Definitely yes, of 1962.
43:34Yes.
43:36Now, what is the issue, professor?
43:38It is that the digital part,
43:41it has never been regulated.
43:45But it didn't exist.
43:47And it turns out
43:49that figures have been created
43:51that today
43:53want the influencers,
43:55the so-called digital newspapers, etc.,
43:57that today have
43:59preponderance in the public debate.
44:03That is the issue,
44:05but there is a huge confusion.
44:07I was just commenting,
44:10I don't know if you heard it,
44:12the fact that in the digital media spectrum,
44:14those who carry the singing voice
44:16are you,
44:18are the traditional media,
44:20when you look for something.
44:22But there is nothing traditional,
44:24because you have gone to what?
44:26To modernize technology.
44:28There is no longer,
44:30listen to me, ladies and gentlemen,
44:32and I was saying that
44:34in a study that was published
44:36five years ago,
44:39you can no longer talk about digital media,
44:41printed media.
44:43All media are digital.
44:45There are no television channels
44:47that are not on the digital platform.
44:49There are no printed newspapers.
44:51This television program right now
44:53you put it on YouTube.
44:55We are seeing it live.
44:57And there is an important example.
44:59Look, the most read newspaper in the world
45:01is the New York Times.
45:03That newspaper printed five million copies
45:05every day.
45:08But now you see it in 26 million.
45:10Digital, of course.
45:12Why are you living in digital society?
45:14People don't understand.
45:16All the media are on the platform.
45:18And then you say,
45:20what is the transport
45:22in digital society?
45:24The virtual.
45:26Through what?
45:28From social networks.
45:30There is an element there that makes a corner,
45:32on the one hand, the issue of freedom of expression
45:34and dissemination of thought,
45:37which has also been very controversial
45:39in the Dominican Republic.
45:41There is the whole issue of the famous DNA law,
45:43which has some observations
45:45that are also pending,
45:47and that in some way,
45:49many of the allegations
45:51that are presented by those who resist
45:53go precisely in that dimension
45:55of the attempt
45:57that that right could be violated.
45:59No, because remember
46:01that people have forgotten it.
46:03This law is so interesting.
46:05Yes, that it is not supported.
46:07It is not a simple majority that approves it.
46:09Exactly, and an organic law
46:11falls to a normal law.
46:13They don't do the task.
46:15That has to be greeted
46:17and put in order.
46:19Of course, there will come a time.
46:21Why is it so dangerous here?
46:23We have to take a regulation mechanism.
46:25Because,
46:27remember that
46:29we are living in a society of spectacles,
46:31and this is a country with an average
46:34age of 15,
46:36and here what is being done,
46:38the disgusting word
46:40that I have,
46:42I despise it,
46:44which is small,
46:46with what you see on platforms,
46:48which reaches me,
46:50not that I see it,
46:52that sometimes you are looking at your cell phone
46:54and it reaches you,
46:56some influences,
46:58with some bad words,
47:00with bad words,
47:03that there is no content,
47:05then everything has to be
47:07spectacular,
47:09vulgarities,
47:11in a society where people do not read,
47:13every day they read less.
47:15Humberto Eco, who is a scholar
47:17of communication,
47:19of semantics,
47:21was going to say
47:23that,
47:25what I think has happened
47:27in this evolution,
47:29that what was previously only discussed
47:31in a bar,
47:33you can do whatever you want there,
47:35now you are discussing it
47:37at a global level.
47:39So a person who does not even know how to read
47:41or write,
47:43anyone can say what they want,
47:45and they do not understand
47:47that they are offending
47:49a society.
47:51There are terrible, ugly things
47:53on that platform,
47:55you do not have to regulate.
47:57So you support the project
47:59to be realized.
48:01A law of 62, 63 years,
48:03when we saw Adalberto,
48:05white and black television,
48:07I am 71,
48:09you are more or less,
48:11white and black,
48:13in the 90s everything was radio,
48:15now everything is what?
48:17Digital.
48:19I already told you,
48:21everything, a local newspaper,
48:23they already have the networks,
48:25they already have the digital platform.
48:27There you have Adalberto.
48:29Adalberto, you are 45 years old,
48:31in the media.
48:33Serious, decent, working,
48:35a vertical man.
48:37What happened? I paid him.
48:41And from good to bad,
48:43a jump back,
48:45to want to finish me.
48:47Because yes.
48:49But there is something I have to say.
48:51And many want Adalberto
48:53to let himself be caught.
48:55But I want to add
48:57something to what you said,
48:59very acceptably,
49:01that this project was consensual
49:03with the main organizations
49:05that have links with the media world.
49:07But not only the country.
49:09They also consulted
49:11the UNESCO,
49:13the specialized organization
49:15of the United Nations system
49:17on the media issue.
49:19They also consulted
49:21the Inter-American Commission
49:23on Human Rights
49:25that has an area,
49:27a specialized chapter
49:29in the media.
49:31They consulted experts.
49:33You talked about the project
49:35that was developed
49:37during the government
49:39of Leonardo Fernandez.
49:41That project was developed
49:43with the advice of international experts,
49:45several of them Spanish.
49:47And it was a project
49:49that takes into account
49:51what is happening in the world
49:53and learning the positive
49:55and negative experiences.
49:57That's why this project is so good.
49:59No, of course, of course.
50:01Although it can be improved, right?
50:03But also, look, I insist,
50:05consensus does not mean 100%.
50:07Because you are going to affect
50:09certain social and economic actors.
50:11That does not mean
50:13that you have to disappear them.
50:15That does not mean that.
50:17It's not the same thing
50:19as saying,
50:21well, let's get rid of censorship
50:23for now.
50:25For example,
50:27that in two years
50:29we will have to decide
50:31with censorship.
50:33Let's try the code
50:35with all that we have.
50:37Because there are many good things.
50:39But it's not the same
50:41that you get that article
50:43to put it in the digital later.
50:45No, no, no.
50:47Yes.
50:53Of course.
50:55And that it has been part
50:57of the democratization of information.
50:59Yes.
51:01But there he raises it,
51:03of course, freedom.
51:05Yes.
51:07Yes, exactly.
51:09Yes.
51:17Yes.
51:25Yes.
51:27Yes.
51:29Yes.
51:31Yes.
51:33Yes.
51:35Yes.
51:37Yes.
51:39Yes.
51:41Yes.
51:43Yes.
51:45Yes.