Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Well, to gain better insight into all of that, we're joined now by Associate Professor of Political Science at the Centre for Advanced Middle Eastern Studies in Lund University in Sweden, Ms. Pinar Dinsch. Thanks for your time and joining us here on France 24. Hearing there in that report, this being described as historic, is it as important as that? Can you tell us how you see this decision, this announcement by the Kurdistan Workers' Party?
00:23Well, it is definitely historic because this had never happened before. I mean, we've seen some peace processes, some unilateral or bilateral ceasefires over the years, but we have never seen a statement coming from the PKK itself about dismantling and dismantling itself. So this is definitely historic.
00:45And how big an impact do you think it could have then on Turkey to start with?
00:49Well, yeah, I mean, on Turkey, the impact could be really, really important because Turkey has been, you know, drifting towards authoritarianism since the late 2000s.
01:04And this step forward now would have to entail some sort of democratization, some sort of change in the way the rule of law applies in, you know, in democratic liberties and freedom of speech and imprisonment of elected, democratically elected politicians, journalists and so on.
01:29Because in Turkey, what we have seen increasingly after 2015 and 16 has been the criminalization and stigmatization of everyone as a terrorist, you know, being labeled as a terrorist in the eyes of the state to criminalize them, to put them into jail and to basically block them from exercising their democratic rights.
01:52We're getting little detail on what exactly prompted the PKK to make this decision now and what, if any, agreement they have, in fact, with the Turkish authorities?
02:01Well, this time the process is running a bit more discreetly, I may say.
02:09We know that the, you know, the process basically started with the Nationalist Movement Party, AKP's ally in Turkey.
02:17Its leader, Devlet Bahçeli, claiming, you know, telling Öcalan to come to the parliament if needed and to disarm and dispend.
02:24This happened in October 2024, but we can understand that some sort of talks have been happening behind the scenes well in advance.
02:36Well, I think this is, again, like this is happening really behind the scenes.
02:43But what we can understand is that there is a negotiation, there is some sort of a protocol that has not been shared thoroughly with the public yet.
02:51But we're assuming that the PKK is going to disarm and dispend.
02:57They have released a statement, but we should pay attention that the statement, again, underlined that this is conditional on some of its demands to be met.
03:07I mean, it was toned in a different way.
03:09It wasn't toned in a threatening way.
03:11But they are clearly stating that they want certain rights and democratic participation rights even for Abdullah Öcalan, improvement of his imprisonment status to the least.
03:25They also want this to be taken to the legal sphere in a thorough way, in a complete way.
03:33So there are things that are expected from the PKK side.
03:37And then, of course, there are the things that are expected to happen on the societal and legal spheres, such as, you know, the change of the constitution, you know, democratic rights, the end of the trustee appointing appointments by the government in Kurdish areas, as well as other parts of Turkey now.
03:58So there are many things, like we're talking about cultural rights, educational rights.
04:03There are many things to be done along the way in order for this new process to come to a very, really peaceful and long lasting end.
04:11Can you tell us a bit more about the Kurdish community in Turkey?
04:14Well, I mean, I think the Kurds have been the most significant sufferers of this decades of conflict.
04:25I mean, we're talking about the PKK conflict here.
04:27But, of course, the Kurds have been suffering long before the PKK was established.
04:32The PKK was, in fact, established because of the Kurdish sufferings.
04:36So I would say that the Kurdish community is very much welcoming this new process.
04:42Of course, it's a difficult phase.
04:44It's difficult to digest.
04:46And especially knowing that the AKP had these sorts of, you know, steps forward for Turkey's democratization, let's say EU, getting into the EU and so on.
05:00And these all turned out to be tactical steps.
05:03And therefore, there is both an optimistic hope, but there's also some sort of precaution, hoping that this time, this process will actually come to a peaceful end.
05:17One thing we have heard from Ankara is that it feels that anything, this laying down of weapons by the PKK should be copied by groups that supported and groups in Syria and Iraq.
05:31You know, how close do you think those groups are?
05:33Do you see that happening?
05:33Well, this has been the argument of the Turkish state for a very long time, right?
05:39They have seen not only the PKK, but any political, civil or other group in the region basically as offshoots of the PKK.
05:49This was the reason why Turkey had been, you know, doing several military occupations in the north and east of Syria.
06:00This has been the reason why so many democratically elected politicians have been imprisoned in Turkey.
06:06So this has been the argument of Turkey for a very long time.
06:10This is really not new.
06:11And they're just repeating this sort of narrative.
06:15What we understand from the Turkish side is an emphasis on a terror-free Turkey.
06:20So they're not really emphasizing on democratization that much.
06:24This is what we hear from the civil society, from the Kurdish side, and from other people who want a better future for Turkey.
06:32But from the government's perspective, from the state perspective, the focus is very much, the emphasis is very much on a terror-free Turkey.
06:41Well, thinking if this would really apply to other armed or political organizations in the region is, of course, a different story.
06:52Because the Syrian Democratic Forces are not the PKK.
06:58The PKK is a separate organization.
07:00So I really don't know how that would play off.
07:04And I really hope that this wouldn't be used as an excuse to properly end the process once again.
07:11But on the other hand, I do believe, as you asked in your question, this is not a thing that is isolated in Turkey.
07:18This peace process, I very much believe, is an outcome of the new geopolitical dynamics in the region.
07:26So that gives me a bit more hope in the future, about the future of this process.
07:31Okay, well, let's end on that note of hope.
07:34Pinar Dinsche of Lund University in Sweden, thank you so much for joining us and your time.