Newly elected Pope Leo XIV has been branded "not very Maga" after becoming the first American Pontiff in history.Formerly known as Robert Prevost, the 69-year-old was celebrated at the Vatican as he was unveiled to the world today.FULL STORY HERE.
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00:00The Pope was a very important political figure. Can you see a situation in which politicians in Britain did start to listen more to spiritual guidance, whether it's the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury or whoever it might be?
00:13I think depending on what they were saying, yes, if they're chiming with your politics of the day, then they might be your best friend.
00:19I think with this particular Pope, for obvious reasons, there'll be interest across the pond, or even more so because I've just had a friend from Washington send me some of the new Pope's previous tweets in the last couple of months, and it's safe to say he's not very MAGA.
00:35Interesting.
00:35In February, he shared an article from the Catholic website, J.D. Vance is wrong. Jesus does not ask us to rank our love for others.
00:46He also re-shared a letter from Pope Francis with regards to criticisms on J.D. Vance as an immigration, and even a couple of weeks ago, he shared a message that said,
00:59do you not see the suffering? Is your conscience not disturbed? How can you stay quiet?
01:06Alluding to the situation in America where Donald Trump is deporting illegal immigrants without any sort of due process.
01:14So, Trump may well want to meet him, and I would love to be a fly on the wall for that discussion, certainly.
01:21He may be a different Pope to what he was.
01:23He may have to be.
01:24He may have to be, to be honest with you.
01:26Well, I'm just going to bring in, we've got historian Tony McMahon on the line.
01:33Tony, a very historic occasion, and we've just been discussing in the studio the impact that the pontiff has on global politics, which has, of course, changed over the years.
01:44How much influence does a modern Pope have compared to Popes of old?
01:54Can you hear me? I don't think, Tony, can you hear me?
01:58Okay, we don't think we've got, so I want to come back to that then, Matthew, because, of course, these are live theological discussions at the moment
02:05about whether or not governments can morally uphold border security, whether that is within their remit or whether that is somehow unchristian.
02:14So, that's going to be a very interesting debate about how this plays out, Ben, isn't it?
02:18Well, I saw a brilliant article by Nigel Bigger.
02:21Do you know who I mean?
02:22Yes, I do know, Nigel.
02:23Yes, superb.
02:23I'm saying that, you know, if the ICC had been around in World War II, Winston Churchill would have been up in front of it
02:30because the ICC seemed to regard any collateral implications of a policy as being central to the policy itself.
02:40So, for example, in the pursuit of, as far as our borders are concerned, in the pursuit of enforcing our borders,
02:48the ICC would see any collateral impact, any adverse collateral impact, as being as important as the primary purpose of enforcement.
02:57And it would find you on the wrong side of that, on the wrong side of it.
03:02But, of course, enforcing borders is a fundamental principle which needs to be upheld, irrespective, frankly, of the collateral impact.
03:13Because if you don't uphold your borders, you are literally not a country anymore and you're open to assault by any force that wishes to cross your border.
03:21And, you know, we've got to reconnect.
03:24Our compassion must remain.
03:28Our love of other, you know, of humanity must remain.
03:31But we've got to reconnect with the common sense principles that allow our civil society to survive.
03:38And, you know, we've lost the balance somehow in this progressive Western liberalism that we practice.
03:47Claire, do you think that's fair?
03:48Because often Christians, and particularly Christians on the left, will interpret the words of Jesus in terms of being neighbors to the people we come across, being compassionate, lending without expecting back.
04:01They interpret that as a political policy rather than a kind of imperative of Christian discipleship to treat those in front of you with love and compassion.
04:10Whereas, you know, others would say on the right, well, Jesus said that he was not come to get rid of a single letter of the law, meaning the Old Testament, which did lay down strict boundaries for how we behave in our lives together, how we keep the law, how we punish those who don't uphold the law.
04:26Where do you stand on this?
04:27OK, well, let's try and take left and right out of this, OK, because there only is one right way, and that is Christ's way.
04:36And that has been told, well, they can't, Bill, they're wrong, Miriam.
04:39Which side is wrong?
04:41I'm not taking sides, because you can't, because the only truth is the light, is the right path, is Christ's way.
04:47But that's correct.
04:48I agree with you, an individual Christian's small discipleship, but I personally don't think Jesus was saying those things to governments, to command political government policy.
04:59But you're not a Catholic either, are you?
05:00I'm also not a Catholic.
05:01OK, so full disclosure.
05:03But, OK, that was a flipping point.
05:05You don't need to be.
05:06OK, but let's get back to first principles here, right?
05:08This is the largest recruitment process ever in the world for a leader, right?
05:16Nothing else compares.
05:18There was no Myers-Briggs personality tests done in the conclave to find out who they wanted to be for this next pope.
05:25We know that this pope is an Augustinian.
05:28We know he was friends with Pope Francis.
05:31So is it any surprise that these tweets from X have came out from your friend in Washington that would align himself to the same principles as Pope Francis?
05:42It's not a surprise.
05:43We just have to hope and pray that tradition will unify the church and will be the link from the past to the present.
05:50And that's what we need.