Sister Wives Season 19 Episode 23 The Stars Will Fall From the
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00:00Previously on Sister Wives.
00:02I'm trying to figure out why Robin and I were so close, and now it's like nothing.
00:08I had this bond with her, and I'm now questioning,
00:13why tell me that you want to have a relationship with me,
00:15and then ghost me for months and months and months.
00:17I think the last time I saw Robin was probably the day that I moved from Flagstaff.
00:22I don't need to focus on healing a relationship, but I would.
00:27You'd be the only one.
00:28But I would be the only one, and that's how it always was.
00:32This property, it's all such a mixed bag of emotion.
00:37You believe we probably couldn't afford to just keep a property.
00:42We could afford it, but can we afford the other things we need to afford?
00:45It's an idea that we keep going back and forth on.
00:47Maybe letting it go is the best, but it doesn't feel like the best, I guess.
00:53I am trying to collect all the documentation I need,
00:56because I'm going to have to prove that it was really kind of our joint funds
01:00that paid the bulk of the property.
01:02I'm going to get a lawyer to help me through this process.
01:07I have had my suspicions.
01:09He's doing something and doesn't want us to know.
01:11You're listening to an interview.
01:27You're listening to an interview.
01:28You're listening to an interview.
01:29Recently, Mary and I have had some discussions about the property, Coyote Pass, in Flagstaff.
01:51I told her that I had a lawyer, just because nothing's really happening.
01:55Cody definitely holds the upper hand.
01:57Like, nothing can happen unless Cody wants to take action, because his name mark is on all of the properties.
02:02I just worry that I'm going to be tied to this property forever.
02:06I'd like to get my money out of it.
02:08I would have sold it by now.
02:09But I have to wait.
02:10I'm waiting on him to decide he wants to get something moving.
02:16I've been talking to Janelle a little bit about the property.
02:19So we're both on Flagstaff, so we decided to meet up.
02:24Hi.
02:24Hi.
02:26How are you doing?
02:27Good.
02:28This is the best time of year to come out here, I think.
02:31Yeah.
02:31It's just so beautiful.
02:33It really is.
02:34It really is.
02:35When I see this property, it's actually sad to me, because I think we all had some big hopes and dreams.
02:42Just because the UV index just rips your skin off here.
02:45I mean, it seems so cool and nice.
02:47In 10 minutes, your sun burns.
02:48Oh, yeah.
02:49Do you want to go up into the shade?
02:52I do not want this property.
02:55I am very confident that Janelle feels the same way.
02:59I don't know what Cody's end game is here.
03:03Is he trying to play a game with us?
03:05So we just get so tired of it that we're like, we just dump it.
03:08It's like, fine, you have it.
03:09I mean, as far as lots, like, so Cody and Robin are on the lot that goes, you know, like 20 or 30 yards into the trees.
03:16You and I and Cody are on this four-acre piece.
03:18This one?
03:19Mm-hmm.
03:19My name's only on one piece.
03:21Is your name on two pieces?
03:22Yeah.
03:22He could sell the two-acre piece he and Robin on and the five acres.
03:26But he couldn't sell the four-acre or the two-acre he's on with me without my permission.
03:31Yeah, and I'm on one of them with you.
03:33This four-acre piece, yeah.
03:35I would really like to make sure that this is done fair, because you definitely are in the worst position as far as if he forces the sale of it.
03:43Yeah.
03:43Because we're all three on the four-acre piece, and that's all you're on.
03:47So when we bought the properties, Cody went in and sort of just put everybody's name on title, what seemed like arbitrarily.
03:53I hired a lawyer because Cody was ignoring me, and I wanted to explore options for bringing a little bit of pressure for him to perform the simple, most basic, human, decent thing, which is put our names on all the titles.
04:06Part of me just wants to walk away because it's just so irritating.
04:10Yeah.
04:10But I have to stick it out and see it.
04:12No, I'm not walking away from this.
04:14So?
04:14No, I'm going to fight for some of this.
04:16All right, well, good.
04:17I feel so bad, Mary.
04:18I feel like you were especially taken for a ride.
04:22You know what I mean?
04:22For sure.
04:23I need to get my name on whatever pieces of property is fair, and then we need to sell it.
04:29I have an attorney.
04:30I just don't want to have to use them.
04:32There's all these things I'm like, wow, I should have been smarter about that.
04:36Well, you don't think.
04:37Or when we all signed the papers, like when he assigned who was on each piece.
04:41I should have been a little speaking up for myself.
04:44I question him.
04:44I question him on that, and I got in trouble for questioning.
04:46Yeah.
04:47Like, there was a couple of people in the family that were not happy with me for questioning.
04:51Like, why is it this way?
04:52So this is so interesting, because when you would say something, he would do this thing
04:56like, well, you're not being a team player.
04:59Like, he'd make you feel bad for bringing up a question.
05:02Do you know what I mean?
05:03And then he'd get other people on board.
05:05But, you know, to keep the peace, I sort of just was like, whatever.
05:09Because I said when I gave him the money for the house, I said, why don't you put our
05:11names on that title?
05:13Well, Robin needs her estate.
05:16I'm so dumb.
05:17We trusted.
05:18We could say that we were naive or that we trusted, but it's because we all worked together
05:23and we did it for the family.
05:24Always.
05:25And that was the plan.
05:26Always.
05:27For like 25 years, whoever was able to take the credit took the credit.
05:31I had to pay off a lot of debt that I used to support the family when the years were really,
05:36really tight in Lehigh.
05:38We set it up.
05:38We were team players.
05:39We set it up in the very beginning.
05:40From the very first day, it felt like we just were putting our money in and we were all
05:46contributing.
05:46But we always knew that we had each other's backs, too.
05:50I was willing to do it then.
05:52And now, honestly, Janelle, I wonder, because some of the things that he's saying.
05:57No, I know.
05:58He never loved us and he never wanted to marry us and he felt forced to marry us.
06:02It's like, okay, all right.
06:04Do you believe it?
06:04I don't.
06:05No, I don't believe it.
06:06But he's always been so wishy-washy back and forth.
06:09I think it's just like his ego can't handle the fact that he's failed miserably at this
06:13or he's found the love of his life.
06:15Like, it happens.
06:16I've had so many friends.
06:17It's great.
06:17I'm glad that he has.
06:19Cody has said, well, all of a sudden I met Robin and she's this diesel jeans model and
06:23she's everything I want.
06:24And I'm thinking, that's rich, dude.
06:25We went through all the starving years when I was holding my bra together with diaper
06:29pins and we were broke as broke as broke.
06:32And we went through all your crazy, let's move here, let's move there.
06:36We've been through all of this with you.
06:37And she's not been through that with you.
06:39So that's great.
06:40You just take your little diesel jeans model and just go live happily ever after.
06:44Lala!
06:57Babies!
06:59Hello.
07:01Welcome, baby.
07:01I also slammed them over my face.
07:03Oh, that's sparkly.
07:06What did you do?
07:08When did you get those?
07:09I've got extensions.
07:10Whoa, I love them.
07:12Are they for Valentine's Day?
07:14She has these glitter strands in her hair.
07:18It's adorable.
07:19That looks cute.
07:20I might need to get that for Valentine's Day.
07:22So what are you going to do for Valentine's Day besides have amazing hair?
07:25I really like it.
07:26I'm going to work.
07:27Oh.
07:27She doesn't have sex.
07:28What did you say?
07:29Nothing.
07:29What did you say?
07:30Obviously nothing.
07:32That's not true.
07:32I'm taking on my shoes.
07:34Okay.
07:34I already need a break from the Kelsey.
07:36What?
07:38What have you done already?
07:39I'm going to go get true, and I'll bring her down.
07:42This is my first Valentine's Day since I got married to David.
07:45I've always been a romantic, always wanted a romantic Valentine's Day, but as a polygamist,
07:52it's not really a polygamist holiday.
07:54Just saying.
07:54It's just not.
07:55I definitely think it would be more difficult as a husband who has multiple wives to be like,
08:00hmm, which one should I take out on a date tonight?
08:04You know, if he's going to do something for somebody, he's got to do something for someone
08:07else, too.
08:07It's just a complicated holiday.
08:11You know, I mean, especially when you live in a plural family, Valentine's Day is always
08:15a little hard to navigate, right?
08:16And so we ended up usually doing a big party.
08:19Most plural families I knew did just a big party that involved all the kids or the adults
08:22or whatever.
08:23For Valentine's Day, what if we basically attack Cody's car and decorate it?
08:28You know what?
08:28I think that might be good, because it's kind of like a big car, sort of.
08:34Mom, that's horrible.
08:36That's horrible.
08:37Mom.
08:41So Valentine's Day, you guys want to come help me pick out outfits?
08:46My girls have been helping me pick out outfits for years.
08:49I do the same thing for them.
08:50You usually do it by phone, but if they're going to be around, I'll put on a fashion
08:54show for them.
08:55Thanks for coming, by the way, because I can never make up my mind with what to wear.
08:59I love putting on fashion shows.
09:00I'm not that great at picking out clothes.
09:01I'm not great at shopping.
09:03I'm going to go get the options.
09:04Most of the time when I go shopping for clothes, I just buy them and try them on once I get home
09:10for the girls.
09:11Why are you not wearing them?
09:12No, no, no, stop.
09:14Why are you not wearing them?
09:16We want to see them on you.
09:17Wait, those are business things, but I like the pink.
09:21Do you have anything sexier?
09:22I do have something sexier, but I'm not going to put it on now.
09:26Please don't.
09:27Can we just see something on you?
09:28Yep.
09:29Thanks.
09:31Truly, there's tasteful sexy.
09:34Mom can be tastefully sexy.
09:37I'm sorry.
09:39Mom is nothing but a prairie dress person.
09:42This one with a shaper.
09:44Are you wearing a shaper right now?
09:47No.
09:47Don't wear a shaper.
09:48You're fine.
09:49Wait, what will be more comfortable?
09:51As I'm putting on the dress, I'm kind of like, okay, a little bit more snag than I remember,
09:56but it's fine.
09:57Wear what you want to wear.
09:59Okay, thank you.
09:59That's my favorite answer.
10:00Belt?
10:01No belt.
10:02No.
10:03Take the belt off.
10:06Wow.
10:06It's not your wedding all over again.
10:08We don't need to see that again.
10:10You cannot live down a lap dance at your own wedding.
10:13Why in the world did I do that?
10:14But he shows that clip to everybody.
10:16He's like, you want to see my wedding day?
10:17I'm like, David, no, not again.
10:19And he's like, look at this.
10:20And he shows the video to everybody.
10:21I'm like, thank you.
10:22Make your love.
10:22Okay, I'm going to my room.
10:24Y'all have fun.
10:24No, no, wait.
10:25Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
10:26Truly, truly, precious angel, baby.
10:29I'll behave myself.
10:31I think I, y'all have fun.
10:33She really has to live with newlyweds.
10:35She does, and it's not her favorite thing.
10:40Not all plural families don't show affection.
10:43This was something that they decided before I even came to the family to not show affection in front of each other.
10:48Mary would be sitting on my lap in front of Janelle.
10:51Janelle's mom pulls me aside and says, hey, you know, Janelle's not comfortable seeing that affection that you're giving to Mary.
10:56To Mary.
11:03So I'm working on the tax returns.
11:09I actually have a lot of, like, the property contracts and stuff that we signed, where we all signed off.
11:15I've got most everything.
11:16I'll get it sent off to the lawyer next week.
11:19Okay.
11:20Yeah.
11:20So.
11:21My stomach is kind of in knots about doing this.
11:24I know.
11:24A, it feels like, why the hell do I have to do this?
11:27It's so wrong that we have to do this.
11:30Janelle, I am so, I am so mad.
11:33Like, it makes me sick thinking that I have to bring a lawyer into this.
11:39But my communication is falling on deaf ears.
11:42I'm afraid of the wrath that we're going to get.
11:47But Mary, he says so much stuff about us publicly.
11:49What else is he going to say?
11:50And that's the same thing Jen says.
11:52She says, Mary, he brought it on himself.
11:53You warned him.
11:54You told him in the email, hey, let's do this or I'm going to have to get some lawyers involved.
12:01Yeah.
12:02And he's ignored you this whole time.
12:04Yeah.
12:04He hasn't even had the decency to have a conversation about it.
12:09Him and Robin and I and Janelle, if we could just have a conversation and just be like, this is fair.
12:15We put this money in to the family that was supposed to be for the family.
12:20And now it's fair that we get this.
12:23Cody and Robin don't just get to benefit from things that I contributed to.
12:29They don't get to keep it all.
12:31They keep complaining about something they gave to the family.
12:34Everybody did that.
12:36Robin's money from her house paid family debts.
12:40You get in this space with family and you're working together and everybody's making sacrifices and it was tight.
12:47Somebody paid this and somebody paid that.
12:49We're all working together.
12:51And then you decide to break up.
12:54Well, you guys are all leaving.
12:56So what?
12:56You want me to take Robin, what Robin has and take from that?
13:02I mean, the only assets I have are what were Robin's assets.
13:05They keep complaining about fairness when it's me and Robin who have dropped so much more money on Coyote Pass.
13:12I paid $160,000 more than anybody else paid for Coyote Pass.
13:18Oh, my stomach is...
13:20No, because there's this unknown factor.
13:22So in knots about this.
13:24There's nothing he can do.
13:26Not really.
13:27I don't think he...
13:28I don't even know why I care, though.
13:30That's what's frustrating about it.
13:33He was a lot of your identity, right?
13:35From those early 20s on.
13:39Oh, I mean, yeah.
13:40But I really, really, really just believed that he still would be cool about this.
13:49If he was truly the gentleman and all the things he used to preach to our boys, he would be fair here.
13:54I haven't communicated anything with him, not because I'm trying to hold anything back.
13:58I don't know what to do.
14:00I want to sell Coyote Pass, but I don't think Robin's in the space where she wants to sell it.
14:05I'm not rushing Robin for the sake of Mary and Janelle.
14:07I think Janelle and Mary need to be smart, and I hope that they split up 14 acres four ways.
14:14But I know Cody.
14:15Financial stuff with him sucks.
14:19I'm not trying to cause any problems.
14:21I'm not trying to rip you off, Mary.
14:25No matter what Janelle says about me ripping you off, that's all imagined in Janelle's head,
14:30because Janelle feels like, oh, I got divorced, so I deserve something.
14:37I don't even know what it looks like.
14:42I think she'll like it.
14:43You're the shopping queen.
14:45I look pretty cute to me.
14:47It looked pretty cute to you?
14:48Yeah, it did.
14:49It's Valentine's Day.
14:49Robin and I like to get the kids special gifts on Valentine's Day, so we got Arielle a vanity.
14:55We're going to build that for her.
14:57Whoa, there's a lot of pieces.
14:58There's a lot of styrofoam.
15:00Ari likes to put on makeup, and I have to constantly make sure she's not walking out the door to school with makeup on.
15:06Better start seeing some directions.
15:08She's going to be home before we're done if we don't hustle.
15:10She always goes into the bathroom, makes a big mess.
15:13And so I'm like, well, if she's got a little vanity, she can sit down.
15:16She can frimp and feel special, and the lights are around, and I just thought it would be kind of fun for her.
15:21We might have 45 minutes before Ari's home.
15:24Yeah, we got this time limit.
15:25We finally get it in the mail.
15:27It has to be put together.
15:28God, I'm just going to have fun here, because you're being forced to be my lovely assistant.
15:35Cody likes a beautiful assistant.
15:38You know, like, there's a magician on the stage, and you have the beautiful assistant moving things.
15:43He likes to have someone helping him when he's working on something, and it drives me bananas.
15:50I feel like I'm just watching, but I can be your beautiful assistant.
15:53You are going to be my beautiful assistant.
15:55That's a joke, Savannah.
15:56We always make about your dad.
15:57He always needs a beautiful assistant when he does something, right?
16:00And it's just like, you don't even really do much, except criticize what he does.
16:06If it's your project, I ought to be able to have an assistant, right?
16:10Yeah, right.
16:11Robin hates being my assistant.
16:13So, did you get reservations for memory?
16:21I am Mr. Valentine's Day, aren't I?
16:25I'm kind of making up for other years when I've struck out.
16:29All right, Babe Ruth.
16:31Yeah.
16:32Robin likes to refer to me as Babe Ruth.
16:34I'm either going to hit it out of the park or strike out.
16:38Sometimes, I'm like planning from beginning and the perfect experience, and other times,
16:45I'm completely dropping the ball.
16:47You know why I struck out in other years?
16:49Why?
16:50Because I was always in the mindset that Valentine's Day was just about our kids and a gathering of the family.
16:55For Valentine's Day, in a plural family, it's a really complicated holiday.
17:02Here, Janelle, this one is for you.
17:05Oh, those are so pretty.
17:08And this is for you.
17:09Yeah, that's very nice.
17:11Yeah, he gave me my bouquet like it is an arm's distance, and we didn't really even touch.
17:15It was just this, and he's like, happy Valentine's Day.
17:19I'm like, okay.
17:20I agree that when another wife is watching, it's just bad form.
17:24It's a challenge.
17:25Not all plural families don't show affection.
17:27This was something that they decided before I even came in the family, to not show affection in front of each other.
17:32And I always saw it as a mistake.
17:35Here, Mary.
17:36Can I put this back in the box?
17:37Oh.
17:38I think it made Cody feel alone, and I think it made each of us wives feel kind of alone.
17:44A husband and a wife in a social setting, there's a connection there.
17:48They can go up, and he'll put his hand on the small of her back, or touch her hand, or she'll reach out and fix his hair, or kiss him on the cheek, or something.
17:58It brings comfort to the couple.
18:01It brings unity to the couple.
18:02It makes the couple feel kind of safe and secure.
18:05And in plural marriage, there's a lot of insecurity just because there's so much sharing.
18:11It would have made each wife feel more secure and more comfortable if Cody would have been able to show affection, or we would have been able to show affection to him.
18:23Sure, yeah, we dealt with some little bit of jealousy, but we did anyway.
18:26Maybe because the miracle...
18:26Well, there's a hole here and a hole here.
18:29It was okay to fight in front of each other.
18:30It was okay to sit there and get edgy with each other, but it wasn't okay to show love, support, care, a tender word.
18:39That wasn't allowed.
18:40I mean, it seems to me like Robin was always more interested in having physical affection, like, in front of the other wives.
18:45But I think her and Cody were probably in a good spot more often than Cody and I were in a good spot.
18:49For me personally, if I was in a good place in my relationship with Cody, then me seeing him have affection to another wife didn't bother me because I felt very secure.
19:03But when we weren't in a good place, it was really hard to see.
19:07It'd be insulting, you know, to sit there, watch, and be affectionate with another wife while your marriage is terrible.
19:13I mean, he has said that he felt like that, you know, it was so hard to have me around because he couldn't have the affection with Robin that he wanted.
19:23He said that.
19:24When Mary and I got married, Mary was clingy.
19:26She was all over me.
19:27She was always all over me.
19:31Mary would be sitting on my lap in front of Janelle while we were courting.
19:35Janelle's mom pulls me aside and says, hey, you know, Janelle's not comfortable seeing that affection that you're giving to Mary.
19:40So all of a sudden, because of this opinion, I was, like, withdrawing that affection from Mary and never even establishing it with Janelle.
19:49I just don't think there's any rules for a marriage.
19:52It's about what works between the couples, like what works between you and your husband, what works between you and your sister wives.
19:58Hope chest.
19:59I think she's here.
20:00You think so?
20:01Yep, yep, I heard the door.
20:02Let's hurry and get these guys, these in there.
20:04I think this is how this goes.
20:05We haven't been puttering.
20:06We've been moving along at a decent pace getting this done.
20:09But now Ari's home, we can hear her, and it's like a NASCAR pit stop.
20:13God, I'm nervous.
20:14This is weird.
20:15All of a sudden, Ari's home, and we're just, like, we want to have, like, a big reveal.
20:20Whoa!
20:23Where's Ari, though?
20:25It's cute.
20:27I like it.
20:28Happy Valentine's Day.
20:31My dream has come true!
20:33Look at that.
20:34She is very dramatic and extremely expressive.
20:37You got drawers for all of your makeup everywhere, which is a great blessing if she's happy with you, and a terrible thing if she's not.
20:45She's like my mini-me.
20:46It doesn't seem...
20:46Isn't that perfect?
20:48When she's disappointed, she is mean to me.
20:51But when she's really happy, it's like, Dad, you're the best dad in the whole world.
20:54I love you so much.
21:00That's just adorable.
21:01Is that cute?
21:02Good job, Mom.
21:04Tell you what, this whole idea of building this vanity with the directions, I should have read more marriage books and gotten the directions.
21:17So when I did the legal divorce, I knew that the spiritual part of it was so valid because it wasn't what was yours, what was Robin's, what was Christine's.
21:25Like, I never really thought about a spiritual divorce.
21:28It didn't even occur to me.
21:29And then when Mary got one, I'm like, huh, maybe it's worth getting a spiritual divorce.
21:32And then when Mary got one, I'm like, huh, maybe it's worth getting a spiritual divorce.
21:36Do you know he's frustrated with the whole way that our spiritual divorce through the church went down?
21:51Really?
21:51He's so mad about that, that he didn't get a say and he didn't get it.
21:55What would he have said?
21:56I invited him.
21:58I talked to him about it and he's like, well, let me give it some thought and nothing.
22:02And then he was mad that he didn't get to talk about it.
22:05He's just mad because it looks bad for him.
22:06Mary told me about it.
22:08I didn't know what to say.
22:09I uninvolved myself.
22:10If I'd have been there and given them the reasons we broke up, they might not have given her the release.
22:17She did her stuff.
22:19I didn't abandon her.
22:20We got the release on that premise and that's what we needed.
22:24We needed to not be married.
22:25If I would have given my testimony, what I really believed, it would have taken away her justification for the divorce, but it would have made me stuck with her.
22:35So they will not separate a man on the man's merit to be separated from a woman.
22:40They just don't do it.
22:41The woman has to request it and the woman gets it based upon the merit of what she gives.
22:48My church isn't a cult.
22:50It's hard to get into and easy to get out of, but marriage is its own cult.
22:56I don't want to disparage marriage, but it is easy to get into and it is hard to get out of.
23:02I do understand that the church leader, when he came back to Cody, he said that it was on the basis of abandonment.
23:11I did not choose that word.
23:13I did not say that Cody abandoned me during that meeting.
23:17And so I can't be held responsible for that word or Cody's reaction to it.
23:24He's the one who said he didn't even consider himself married to me.
23:28I did tell the church leaders that.
23:30So I wanted to ask you about that because I'm, are you associated with them anymore?
23:35No.
23:36Can I just call up and say, I want to?
23:37If you, the way that I feel about it, and I know, I know Christine feels different and everybody feels different.
23:43But I'm not where Christine is and I'm still sort of like, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
23:48Like, I never really thought about a spiritual divorce.
23:50It didn't even occur to me because we're really not part of that church anymore.
23:53And then when Mary got one, I'm like, huh.
23:55I wasn't interested.
23:56I didn't feel the need to get a spiritual divorce.
23:58I was at a different spot spiritually.
24:00I believe in God and he was great with me leaving.
24:03So a conversation with him was good enough for me.
24:05So when I did the legal divorce, I knew that the spiritual part of it was so valid because if it wasn't, what was yours?
24:12What was Robin's?
24:13What was Christine's?
24:13I still think it's valid.
24:15So I'm like, I don't want to offend God.
24:17If you want, we can talk more about it.
24:20I would go with you if you wanted me to.
24:22Okay, maybe that.
24:24I would do that.
24:25Because just to cover all the bases.
24:26For me, that's what I needed.
24:28I'm not dating, but if I found somebody, I would never want there to be like a weird barrier in my head.
24:35You know what I mean?
24:35You've been married that way.
24:38I've been married 30 years and it had validity for me.
24:40I never worried about a legal marriage.
24:42I mean, I know that Christine's perspective on it is, well, I don't believe in that faith anymore.
24:47I just felt like it was valid.
24:48I need to actually terminate it.
24:50I need to feel like, no, this is done.
24:53This marriage was a marriage of an eternal nature.
24:59It was a ceiling for beyond the grave.
25:02I did not want, and I knew that he did not want, to be stuck in the eternities with me.
25:12And I felt like that's what that was, and so I needed to let that go.
25:15I have kept my faith, and I think I've kept a lot of what would be considered probably the LDS or the Mormon doctrines.
25:21I'm still in that realm.
25:24You know, I don't have to live plural marriage again.
25:25I don't know if I'll ever even marry again.
25:27But I've kept my faith.
25:29All of it's intact, except for that whole plural marriage thing.
25:32I don't know about that.
25:33So just so that I'm sure I'm good, if I were to remarry, maybe it's worth getting a spiritual divorce.
25:39All right.
25:39Anyway, all right.
25:40Well, thanks for chatting.
25:42This is kind of typical of mine and Janelle's relationship.
25:47Both of us are very well aware of the fact that we've never been best friends, and we probably never will be.
25:52You know, our personalities just are not that way.
25:56But we also always put in the effort into our relationship as far as, like, doing the best for the family that we could.
26:06Sister-wife relationships are really complex, as you can imagine.
26:09I think everybody thinks that somehow you're supposed to all be friends, hold hands, and skip together down the road.
26:15No, it doesn't work like that.
26:16Sometimes you're friends, and sometimes you're not.
26:18You know, Mary and I just have very different personalities.
26:20We just never could see the world the same way.
26:22Probably from the very first days we were married, it was always that way.
26:26But we shared some very common core values, which was we believed in the family, and we believed in our faith.
26:31So we figured out how to eventually work for the good of the family, work as a team, despite our differences of personality and opinion.
26:40This is our first Valentine's Day as a married couple, so it's extra special.
26:46I'm glad I waited for you.
26:48Same.
26:49Tell me about your trip to see the girls.
26:51It was a really good trip.
26:52I got alienated from my children when the divorces happened.
26:57So I'm trying to establish this relationship where they're no longer having me represented to them.
27:12This is our first Valentine's Day as a married couple, so it's extra special.
27:17Thanks, baby.
27:19Hi.
27:19Hi.
27:20Reservations this evening?
27:22Yes.
27:22Perfect.
27:23What was the name?
27:24Woolly.
27:25Sometimes when you enter a restaurant, you realize everyone's eyes are on you.
27:29I love how we look as a couple.
27:31All right.
27:32So are you guys celebrating anything tonight?
27:35Valentine's Day.
27:35Oh, so fun.
27:37Thanks, babe.
27:38I've always been more of a confident person.
27:40Took a hit with being married to Cody, especially the last several years, and once he told me he wasn't attracted to me, and hadn't been.
27:48You said that you were not attracted to me.
27:51My confidence took a real, like, slam nose dive after that.
27:56Okay, so we can unravel this farther because it's true that I wasn't attracted to you when we got married.
28:04You know, it was hard.
28:05It was hard to come up from that.
28:07I wish he would have told me years before where he said, I'm not attracted to you.
28:11We'll have a platonic marriage because the next time he was over, I kicked him out.
28:15Being married to you has been heartache.
28:18It has been pain.
28:19And it was very difficult to feel good about myself after that.
28:24It took a lot of work to just shuck off his opinion of me.
28:29And I did not date until I was okay with me again.
28:33Okay.
28:33Our first Valentine's Day.
28:35Happy Valentine's Day.
28:36I didn't know so many things about monogamy.
28:39I remember right after I met David, I called McKelty, and I'm like, do you always feel like
28:43Tony has your back?
28:44She's like, yeah.
28:46I'm like, you always feel like you can count on him no matter what?
28:49She's like, yes.
28:51I'm like, I feel like that about David.
28:53She's like, well, yeah, you should.
28:54And she goes, oh, you didn't feel like that with dad.
28:58And I said, I didn't know.
28:59I'm glad I waited for you.
29:01It's been, you know, 11 years since I was married.
29:06It's been awesome with you.
29:08Same.
29:10I want every woman to feel this confident and this loved and this cared for and this secure.
29:18Because I know what it's like to not feel like this.
29:20And it's terrible.
29:21I don't know what it's like to feel like this is terrible.
29:33Hi.
29:34Oh.
29:36You're a cheater.
29:40I think that I'm going to come to a Valentine's Day without getting something for you.
29:44He's got gifts and I'm like, wait a minute, I didn't know we were doing gifts here.
29:48I know this is so conspicuous, right?
29:50When I was in a plural family, Valentine's Day was always a challenge.
29:54Your Valentine's gift is big.
29:57It was one day.
29:58And there were three wives.
30:00And then there were four.
30:01There was sometimes I was just overwhelmed.
30:03So I was striking out.
30:05My heart's pounding.
30:06Oh, wow.
30:08There is this thing in plural marriage where men feel like they have to give each wife the same thing.
30:16Pretty.
30:17Yeah, your favorite kind of turquoise.
30:20And each wife kind of has a tendency to either go, I want what she has, or I want to be unique and I want you to know me.
30:27It's really tricky.
30:29Well, hers looks better than mine.
30:31Or why did he give you the same thing as her?
30:34So pretty.
30:36Pretty jewelry for a pretty woman.
30:40Aw, you're so sweet.
30:43I don't know, he seems kind of like, this is fun.
30:44I'm having fun.
30:45I just have one to worry about right now.
30:47And there's no comparison and nobody's getting jealous.
30:50And yeah.
30:52Oh, tell me about your trip to see the girls.
30:53Um, it was a really good trip.
30:57Made arrangement to go see Christine's girls in Utah.
31:00Turns out there's other kids there.
31:02Like, other of my kids from other mothers, you know.
31:05Aspen and I had this long discussion.
31:07She said, Dad, why, what is wrong?
31:09What, what, what did I do?
31:10Why don't you like me, Dad?
31:12I would say that's just kind of more of a confrontation.
31:14It was.
31:15She confronted me, which meant for.
31:18Which is good.
31:19For Aspen meant she was, something's wrong.
31:21Yeah, Aspen literally asked why I didn't like her.
31:24And I'm like, sweetheart, I love you.
31:27And I have, always have, and always will.
31:32Aspen and I had a long discussion about us having a relationship.
31:36Not filtered through my view of her mother or her mother's view of me.
31:41It just improved so much for a relationship.
31:45And what I explained to her was just, there's just this place of pain.
31:49And that I didn't feel welcome to reach out to everybody.
31:53Right.
31:53And she's like, I never made you feel unwelcome.
31:55And I said, but this, what has happened in my life has made me feel unwelcome.
31:59Yeah, yeah.
32:00I got alienated from my children when the divorces happened.
32:05I have an assumption that the exes just weren't protecting the privacy of the breakup at all.
32:14They're just like, your dad's like this, your dad's like this, your dad's like this.
32:16And so I had all this relationship struggle with all of my kids.
32:23I'm different.
32:23I'm not in the home.
32:24They don't know how to define me.
32:25We haven't had a lot of connection.
32:28So I'm trying to establish this relationship where they're no longer having me represented to them by my ex-wives.
32:35Look, I don't talk trash on Cody to my kids.
32:38Ever.
32:39I wish Cody would reach out to them more, and I wish he had a better relationship with his kids.
32:43I've done everything that I can to facilitate that relationship.
32:46Things were good with the Kelty.
32:48The twins were fun to see.
32:50Really?
32:51I wish I saw the twins more often because they change month to month.
32:54It's just constantly changing.
32:56Here's the funny thing about the kids in Utah is it's getting better and better every time.
33:03It feels like.
33:04Kind of like the farther we get from, you know, the breakups, the better it gets.
33:11So it was, this time was a really sweet experience.
33:14Two of my boys from another mother were there.
33:17That was good because it didn't seem like there was quite as much, you know, like everybody lets the animosity go.
33:23This trip was so sweet.
33:25Cody would give us a flower sometimes, like in front of each other.
33:34It's just so weird to think about.
33:35I was married to a guy who had intimate relationships and kissed other women.
33:40How do you feel about not being a polygamist anymore?
33:45Being a polygamist anymore.
33:55We did family parties for Valentine's Day.
34:01Family parties.
34:02Which, and they were good.
34:03I have to say, they were a lot of fun.
34:04We just concentrated on the fun, not the romantic part of it.
34:07Cody would give us a flower sometimes, like in front of each other, and then like kiss us all.
34:13Were they all equal flowers?
34:15And then he would just kiss us all right there.
34:19That's a little awkward.
34:20Mm-hmm.
34:22Yes.
34:23It's just so weird to think about.
34:25I was married to a guy who had intimate relationships and kissed other women, and it was fine because it was part of our culture and it's what we did.
34:33And I can't believe I was okay with that.
34:37You know, all of it.
34:38But it was a religious practice.
34:40I was 100% okay with it.
34:44And I didn't get jealous about it until Robin came along and nothing.
34:48Cody and Robin, they got engaged and everything.
34:51And I thought, oh, that's nice.
34:52They're engaged now.
34:53So now it's more official.
34:54Like a month later, I found out that Cody's still the engagement with a kiss.
34:59And I freaked.
35:01We didn't kiss until over the altar because I didn't feel right about kissing a married man.
35:05And so to me, the fact that he had kissed Robin was, it was devastating.
35:13So when I found out Cody kissed Robin, oh my gosh, I was like, wait, wait, what?
35:18You're not even married.
35:18Why are you kissing her?
35:20And he's like, we talked before about how our first kiss was over the altar in front of the other wives, and it was really awkward.
35:28I'm like, I know.
35:29And he goes, and we even talked about next time I got married, and you suggested that we kiss beforehand.
35:35I know, but I didn't expect it to happen, and nor did I expect it to hurt so bad.
35:39Let's have a toast to our first year of success.
35:42Love.
35:42And our love, marriage, and how hot you are.
35:48Okay.
35:48Sure, are you okay?
36:03This is a Valentine's that's just you and me.
36:08Do you ever sit there and feel, like, you wish we were in a plural relationship?
36:18And, like, where are you at with all that right now?
36:20I've had some concerns about whether or not having one wife would be enough for him because he has been living and used to this other way for so long.
36:35And so it's vulnerable.
36:38It's so vulnerable to be asking this.
36:40But I kind of need to know if we're okay, I guess, and just make sure that this works for us.
36:48The question in my head is, is this it?
36:50Or are we going to try for, you know, to live plural marriage again?
36:55And how do you feel about not being a polygamist anymore?
37:06I mean, it's been a challenge for me.
37:08This is what I thought I was going to be doing my whole life.
37:11But where are you at?
37:13How do you feel?
37:14I feel like I've been slapped by polygamy.
37:17It's hard not to be bitter about the fact that I bought off on it and did it.
37:22Because in the end, in the last moments of it, it felt terrible.
37:31The last moments of it?
37:32Yeah, I'm like, I'm like literally bitter sometimes.
37:35Aren't you missing what it was before?
37:38Oh, boy.
37:39Oh.
37:40Man, that is so loaded.
37:42Oh, okay.
37:44No, I'm not getting after you.
37:45I'm like going, wow.
37:47I don't want to be flippant with my answer.
37:49Um, because we were devoted to this.
37:54But I'm not interested in plural marriage anymore.
37:56I don't want to pursue another woman.
37:59Because I don't want that headache, the questions, the struggles, the wonder about trust.
38:06I'm not in that space.
38:08I can't deny the blessing that my children are to me.
38:11But I'm completely discouraged by the idea that people feel obligated to do what we did.
38:20I think five years from now, I literally will see other polygamists, maybe even people I knew, and I will shudder for them.
38:28How do you feel?
38:29You know that I've just been heartbroken by all of this and trying to make sense of it.
38:34I don't really know beyond that.
38:36This was a part of our initial agreement in our relationship, is that we were living plural marriage.
38:43I am at a space in my head where I'm very scared of plural marriage now because of what has happened.
38:50And so there's a lot of, like, trauma there.
38:54But it's still part of my beliefs.
38:59How are you feeling about monogamy, though?
39:00I'm at peace, and I'm sad because the difficulties of the past three years, I feel like, have affected us.
39:10I want to apologize for the dark space I went through and how it harmed you.
39:16Because it wasn't fair to you.
39:18But because I was angry, you were withdrawing from me.
39:22And because you were withdrawing from me, I was experiencing not just the anger from the rejection and the anger from the failure of our failures in plural marriage.
39:35And everything that I was experiencing there, it was causing me to literally have bad thoughts about us.
39:43Because I'd been in plural marriage for so long, and it was a sole focus of marriage for me, when we failed at it, I was sabotaging myself.
39:53There were days, unfair to Robin, that I thought about just walking away from our relationship, too.
40:00And that was just because I was so broken.
40:04I became self-destructive.
40:06I think the biggest thing is whether or not you're able to process through it enough that you can be yourself again.
40:14Because you've been very, very angry.
40:18And I understand it.
40:19And I apologize, and I understand that I've been in a bad place.
40:22Yeah.
40:23I'm sorry to you.
40:24I'm sorry to them.
40:26Plural marriage is hard.
40:28I thought, from my myopic perspective, it was just hard on me.
40:32But I failed to recognize what a struggle this would be for my wives.
40:37I'm trying to move on, but I'm kind of arrogant and cocky about how I do it in order to fight the emotions.
40:44Like, all that s*** I said about not loving my wives and my exes was just like me trying to dial in how I felt about it.
40:52I was bulls***ing myself.
40:54I was like, oh, yeah, I'm not affected by this.
40:56I was like, those mean women, they're gone.
40:58I never loved them anyway.
41:00I mean, this is really the crap I was spewing because that was only defense I had.
41:05Divorce just does that to you.
41:06It's not that any of them weren't worth it.
41:09It's that now that we're broke up, I'm like, oh, that wasn't worth it.
41:11And they're going, that wasn't worth it.
41:13I got my identity from them saying I was awesome and telling my kids I was awesome and having my kids tell me I was awesome.
41:20And now they're gone and they're saying that I'm a piece of trash.
41:23I don't blame them.
41:24I was saying they were a piece of trash.
41:26I was telling you that I didn't love them.
41:29It didn't work for a reason.
41:31And I tried to convince myself that I did this on purpose because I didn't love them.
41:37As much as I said I hated them or that I didn't love them, I love them.
41:42This situation, what we experienced is over.
41:46If it could be friendly, I would be very happy.
41:50Let me say it in a nutshell.
41:52I'm very pleased and happy at this point from the experience that I've had to be in a monogamous marriage with you.
42:01Okay.
42:03I love you.
42:05I love you.
42:05Next time on Sister Wives.
42:10You know, I've dated a little bit.
42:13I have had experiences where I believe that some people are not interested simply because of my background.
42:20I love you.
42:50I love you.
42:51I love you.
43:07It's a mosque.
43:09He's an incredible person.
43:11He's a great person.
43:13He's a great person.
43:15I'm a good person.
43:17Hello, my friend.
43:19Hello.
43:21Hello.
43:23Hello.
43:25Hello.
43:27Hello.
43:29Hello.
43:31Hello.
43:33Hello.
43:35Hello.
43:37Hello.
43:39Hello.
43:41Hello.
43:43Hello.
43:45Hello.
44:05Hello.
44:07Hello.
44:09Hello.
44:11Hello.
44:13Hello.