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The Jeremy Kyle Show 25th July 2005

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00:00...lost to love triangles.
00:02That's it.
00:03Does it.
00:05And a loved one in danger of being lost to anorexia.
00:08I look at it as if to say, you know, you're killing yourself.
00:12Just every day that you're doing, you're killing yourself.
00:15We'll see how real-life people cope with all of those problems on today's show.
00:19Don't miss it.
00:30CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
00:46Hello!
00:49How are you?
00:51How are you?
00:53OK.
00:54How are you? How are you?
00:55I can see you.
00:56Thank you for coming off.
00:57Show today, madam.
00:58Hello!
00:58You're back!
01:00Hello! Hello!
01:01Nice to see you.
01:02Thank you very much indeed.
01:03OK, hello and welcome to the show.
01:05I'm Jeremy Carl and today my guests are all on the verge of losing the loved ones that mean the most to them.
01:10First up we have Calvin.
01:11Now Calvin was with his girlfriend for a year and both seemed very happy when they found out that they were expecting their first child together.
01:18That was until she was about to give birth and ran off with Calvin's best mate.
01:23She's now claiming that the baby might not be even his.
01:26Now obviously Calvin wants answers and rightfully so.
01:29So let's bring him on.
01:30Let's meet him.
01:30Ladies and gentlemen, Calvin!
01:31CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
01:33Welcome to the show, Calvin.
01:37We say to everybody who comes on, we want you to tell us the story in your own words in your own time.
01:46What's been going on?
01:47Well, um, I'll just come here to see if she is my little girl.
01:54I went to jail, obviously, for my own reasons.
01:58How many times?
02:01About seven or eight times I've been in prison.
02:04OK.
02:04How did you meet Tiffany?
02:06Give us some background on the relationship.
02:08Well, I met Tiffany through Carl.
02:11She was with Carl before she got with you?
02:13Yeah.
02:14And then you were together for how long?
02:1612 months, is that right?
02:1712 months.
02:17And it was a year ago?
02:19Yeah.
02:20Just tell the story, because you were in prison, is that right, when you discovered from your mother...
02:24Yeah.
02:25..that she'd gone back out with Carl?
02:27Yeah, she was sleeping with Carl.
02:29What about your year with her?
02:31Um, well, I was in and out of jail.
02:33We were always arguing.
02:35Are you on the straight and narrow now or no?
02:37Yeah, I'm sorted now.
02:38Why?
02:39Because, um, I've got a lovely girlfriend with her daughter.
02:44Yeah.
02:45Um, I want to sort myself out, I've got a good job.
02:48So you're back on the straight and narrow.
02:50Fair play.
02:50You know, everybody in this world, you know, has to be given a second chance.
02:54But you've come here today, you want a DNA test.
02:57You want to find out if Tiffany's daughter is, in fact, your daughter.
02:59Yeah.
03:00And that is hugely important to you.
03:02I'll ask you a question I've asked loads of people over the last few weeks.
03:04What do you want to achieve as a father?
03:07I mean, are you going to be a father?
03:08Are you going to be an active, hands-on father, or is this just a point-scoring operation?
03:12I've been a father to this little girl.
03:15Um, since I've come out of jail.
03:17How long ago was that?
03:18Um, since September.
03:20What, you babysit?
03:20You spend time with her?
03:21Yeah, I've had her three or four nights a week.
03:24I've spent money on her.
03:25I've had her on her birthday.
03:28She's just had everything when she was with me.
03:30I'm sure everybody here would understand this next question.
03:32I'm sure it's not easy to answer.
03:33What's it like when you discover that the woman of your dreams is, in fact, sleeping with your mate?
03:38Whilst you're inside and can't do anything about it.
03:40It hurts.
03:42It does hurt.
03:42That exact moment that you found out that she was back with him was, just explain it, describe it to me.
03:48Was it in jail or was it?
03:50It was, I was in prison.
03:53And your mum just came out?
03:54Yeah, my mum came out of it and just ate me.
03:57Because presumably when you're in prison, to have somebody or something to hold on to, to count the days off for, is quite important, yeah?
04:04Yeah.
04:04OK, well, on this show, there are obviously more than two sides to most stories with the amount of people.
04:10But we've heard from you.
04:11And, you know, you are here for that DNA test.
04:14And what I'm trying to achieve is getting to the bottom of all of these stories.
04:17So let's welcome the lady at the centre of all this.
04:19Ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome Tiffany to the show.
04:21It's so quiet.
04:26It's nice, I've got everything, Calvin, all the time.
04:29Hello.
04:30How are you?
04:31All right.
04:33The one thing we try and do is give everybody the chance to tell their story.
04:37Calvin's come on and spoken quite honestly.
04:40He's been in and out of jail eight times.
04:42He says that now, with a new relationship and a new job, he's rebuilding his life, wants to find out the truth.
04:48Where are you coming from in all this?
04:49Give us some background.
04:50He just lies about everything, all the time.
04:52How old's your child?
04:53Nearly 18 months.
04:54OK, 18 months.
04:56I might ask the obvious question.
04:57Why has it taken the two of you this long to sort out the parentage of a child who presumably is the innocent stuck in the middle of all of this?
05:03Why has it taken you so long?
05:04Yeah.
05:05It's just been an awkward situation through it all.
05:08An awkward situation's awkward, but I'd want to know from day one if it was my question, lad.
05:10Because I've been in and out of prison, and, like, me and Tiff have stopped contact sometimes.
05:18You touched upon the fact that Calvin hasn't been that good a dad.
05:22Have you allowed him to be?
05:22Give us some background in your words.
05:24I've given him chance after chance after chance all the time, and he's just messed up, gone prison or phones up.
05:30I can't pick her up and everything else.
05:33The usual with him.
05:34Is he the dad?
05:35I don't know.
05:36Your history reads like, I went from Carl to Calvin, back to Carl, back to...
05:40I mean, you are the central figure in all of this.
05:43Yeah.
05:43Would it not be fair to say that you seem to have flicked around and left a sort of array of men who don't know whether they're the fathers of your baby or what they're doing?
05:50Are you not actually responsible for all of this?
05:52The reason I went back with Carl was because he was going behind my back.
05:56Not with just girls who are the same age as with younger girls.
06:00Isn't that true?
06:00Once.
06:02Once.
06:02Three times.
06:03Once.
06:04Three times.
06:04Two in Bristol and one in Stoke.
06:06Can you answer my question, though, as well?
06:08How do you think it feels to find out, not only while you're in prison but at any time, that your woman, girlfriend, sorry ladies, whatever you want to call yourself, has gone off with your best mate?
06:18We weren't together.
06:20You were with somebody else.
06:22Who were you with?
06:22And I told you myself, not your mum.
06:24I come and told you myself the day your mum brought us.
06:26When I was in jail?
06:27Yeah.
06:27I was with you.
06:29No, you weren't, Calvin.
06:30Who were you writing to?
06:31You were writing to me saying, oh, I love you and won't be with you.
06:33You were writing to two other people.
06:35Tiff, what sort of dad has Calvin been? Has he bought the child things? Has he spent quality time? Or what?
06:41No.
06:41Have you allowed him that opportunity?
06:43Yeah. Time after time after time. You can't say you haven't.
06:46I haven't brought nothing for the little girl, no.
06:49Well, not that I've seen. You didn't buy nothing for her when I was pregnant. You were never there anyway.
06:54Right, yeah.
06:55Are you prepared to hear Calvin out who's saying, look, you know, yeah, it was a place I didn't really want to be and I didn't really know what was going on, but now I've got a relationship, I've got my life.
07:05Life sorted. I actually want to take responsibility if this child is mine.
07:09You have to applaud the fact that he wants to find out a DNA test and say on national television, I want to be the dad and if I am the dad, I'm going to do everything.
07:14Are you going to stand in his way?
07:16I am willing to listen.
07:17Are you going to stand in the way and put barriers in the way and make it difficult for him and use the kid as a weapon or not?
07:22No, I won't do that. At the end of the day, if Calvin is the dad, she's got a right to know her dad.
07:26Can I ask you a question without you getting upset? Because you have got a cheeky grin.
07:29How many days between Carl and Calvin, Calvin and Carl and Carl and Calvin?
07:33Sleeping with him.
07:35Yeah.
07:36About four or five.
07:41How do you feel about that? I mean, all right, let's put it another way.
07:43When your daughter grows up, and you wouldn't want that affair, would you?
07:47No.
07:48Will you learn something from all of this? I'm being honest, you're being honest to me.
07:52Yeah.
07:52What?
07:53I've already learned a lot.
07:55That it shouldn't happen like that.
07:58But you're trying to do the best for it now?
07:59Yeah.
07:59I just want the best for her, that's all I want.
08:02What do you think the best for her is? Do you want Calvin to be the dad?
08:05At the moment, and by past things, then the best is to be with me.
08:10Keep me out of the life, that's what you want.
08:13You surely both want what's best for you.
08:14Until you can prove to me different, then that is what I want.
08:17Exactly, you want me out of her life.
08:18Until you can prove different, until you can start growing up and taking responsibility, then...
08:24I won't be that child for Harvey.
08:26Well, we'll find out when we have the results.
08:28And if you are, then fair enough.
08:30Obviously, yeah...
08:31As long as we have that agreement growing up, and we do it that way.
08:33Obviously, the other person in the equation who we'll meet after the break, ladies and gentlemen, is Carl.
08:37What's your relationship like with your ex-best friend, who's now with your ex-partner?
08:41We don't talk, we don't speak.
08:43How do you feel about him bringing up what could potentially be your child?
08:46I feel all right with him.
08:51I'm just fine with that because I know what he's like, I know who he is.
08:54What's this about threats, Tiff?
08:56Oh, Calvin ringing up, threatening.
08:58Threatening to stab my dad.
09:00Threatening Corbett, your cousin getting him on the phone.
09:04Is that true?
09:05My cousin's never been on the phone to me.
09:06So he hasn't?
09:07No, not when I've been there, he hasn't.
09:08Any threats, Calvin?
09:10You wanted him to meet your family.
09:12There's threats been both ways.
09:13Okay, so there's actually no justification for any of that,
09:15and I go back to something I've said all along, right?
09:17The innocent in all of this is an 18-month-old child
09:19who actually deserves both parents, if you are the parents,
09:21to start acting like role models
09:23and not like little kids who don't quite know how to bring a child up.
09:25That surely is the most important thing.
09:27After the break, we'll do more of that.
09:28But thank you both, Calvin and Tiffany.
09:31So up next, we're going to meet the girl helping Calvin
09:33to put his life back together
09:35after what he sees as Tiffany's betrayal,
09:37as well as the guy that she ran off with,
09:39Calvin's ex-best friend, Carl.
09:42Carl, we stopped the threats.
09:43We didn't peace for good.
09:44And you did bring up with him.
09:45Yeah, I rang up, I rang up, see how the little one was.
09:50Got a load of abuse, so we'll give it back
09:51and then hang up the phone.
09:52Don't go away.
09:54APPLAUSE
09:54Have you ever thought about sex with an ex?
10:04Have you got an old flame that just won't leave you alone?
10:06Does your partner accuse you of seeing an ex
10:08no matter what you say or do?
10:10Maybe you've left an ex, but now you need them back.
10:12We provide the proof so that you can get the truth.
10:15What you need to do is pick up the phone now
10:17and text the word TALK and your name
10:19to 63334, or you can call us today.
10:22It's 09011 30 50 60.
10:26Do it now.
10:28APPLAUSE
10:29OK, welcome back.
10:37Now, earlier we met Calvin and Tiffany.
10:39We heard how the doubts over whether or not Calvin
10:41fathered her child have caused constant fights.
10:43Now, before we meet Calvin's ex-best mate,
10:46the man who allegedly stole his best friend's girl,
10:49it's time to meet Calvin's new girlfriend.
10:50He says that she's helped him get back on track,
10:53that he's ready to face up to his responsibilities.
10:55Let's meet her, Sam, ladies and gentlemen.
10:57APPLAUSE
10:58Yeah, he has messed up.
11:04Yeah.
11:05Right.
11:05But now, he's been with me eight months.
11:08I've got a little girl, and he's been a great father.
11:11So what's wrong?
11:12To your little girl?
11:14Yeah?
11:14To your little girl?
11:15This has got nothing to do with you.
11:17To mine?
11:17How has he?
11:18How?
11:18He hasn't been there all her life.
11:21He has not been there.
11:22No, he hasn't.
11:23I admit he's messed up, Tiff.
11:25I've met that.
11:26He's driving round now.
11:28Is that true?
11:29No, because in the driveway, I have got a car.
11:32Yeah, he's got a car.
11:32And have you been driving it round?
11:33Yeah, I have been driving it round.
11:35Exactly.
11:35Driving it round because you're never going to change.
11:37You can't grow up.
11:38Yeah, but what's that got to do with the little girl?
11:41Without going into too much detail,
11:42that's why you're getting into trouble with the law, right?
11:44Yeah.
11:44Yeah, it is, yeah.
11:45Right, so you haven't learnt your lesson,
11:46you're still doing it, is what Tiffany said?
11:47No, I'm not still doing it because in my driveway.
11:49And that's a guarantee on national television?
11:50Yeah.
11:51OK, that's fair enough.
11:52Sam, welcome to the show.
11:53You say Calvin's been with you eight months.
11:55He's been a good dad to your daughter.
11:59You've actually been responsible for stabilising his life
12:02and everybody makes mistakes and can start again.
12:05What is it about him that you believe in?
12:07Why does he inspire you to think that actually he can be a good dad
12:10and he can be a good boyfriend with his track record?
12:12Explain that to me.
12:12Well, what I've heard of him from the past
12:14and while he's been with me,
12:16he is totally different.
12:18He's a totally different person from what he was.
12:20So in your mind, Tiffany's causing all the troubles?
12:23No.
12:24Where are the troubles then?
12:26All I want to know is if Littland...
12:29If he has the dad,
12:30then obviously can they have some situation
12:34where he can actually see you?
12:37Are you the one that...
12:39I mean, as well as being the stabilising influence,
12:41are you the one that's pushing Calvin to try and get a decision?
12:43Have you been, like, the catalyst that's made him move forward
12:45and do something about this?
12:46Well, I've got a little one of them myself, right?
12:50And what I've seen of him when he's with her, he's great.
12:53Has Tiffany stopped him from seeing his child?
12:56If it is his child?
12:57Yeah.
12:58And why was that?
13:00Because we weren't the solicitors.
13:01Because you changed the baby's name.
13:04What's that?
13:04Because I believe that Carl is a dad.
13:06Sorry, can you explain that to me?
13:07Yeah.
13:08My daughter's name...
13:10Yeah, we obviously have to be careful for specific...
13:12Carl's your name.
13:14But she was born with my name.
13:16When did you change it?
13:18Erm, months ago now.
13:19Why?
13:20Because I believe Carl is a dad.
13:22But you don't know definitively.
13:23Carl's always been a dad from day one.
13:26Yeah, but if he's not biologically,
13:27then you're going to have to change it back again.
13:29No.
13:30Legally you are, aren't you?
13:31No.
13:32I don't know about the audience,
13:34but if I turn out to be the biological father of a child
13:36and my name isn't on the birth certificate,
13:37I'd fight tooth and nail through every court and the land
13:39to get my name on the birth certificate.
13:40End of story.
13:41You've never been a dad to her.
13:43I've been a dad to her when she's been with me.
13:45When she's with you.
13:46When she's with you, it's a different story.
13:47I'm not there.
13:48Which is when, when you were actually there.
13:50Are you saying to me then,
13:50that even if Calvin is proven to be the father biologically,
13:53the dad, right,
13:54that Carl is going to be, in your mind, the dad
13:57and he's going to be called dad?
13:58He'll always be a dad.
13:59But do you not understand?
14:00Do you not understand that whatever has happened
14:02and whoever is responsible, right,
14:04the bottom line is, yet again,
14:07somebody or several people here
14:08are playing God with a child's life.
14:10Don't you think your child,
14:11if Calvin is the father, right, hear me out, right,
14:14she has a divine right to find out
14:17whether she can have a relationship with her father
14:19if he turns out to be a waste of space
14:21who goes back to prison, end of.
14:23But you know what?
14:23She needs to judge that for herself.
14:25No, I've already stopped that.
14:27You can have that.
14:28And I'll go further.
14:30It's hard to be about the cult.
14:31I'll go further.
14:32And I know this from experience.
14:34If you stop it,
14:35and you might have good reason,
14:37and I'm, fair enough, you know,
14:38if there are,
14:39if he's doing things that are dangerous around the child,
14:41I will back that.
14:42But if you just, out of animosity,
14:44say, you ain't seeing your child,
14:46I'll tell you who will lose long-term apart from her.
14:48Do you know who it will be?
14:48You, because she'll hold it against you.
14:50And that is a fact.
14:51And that's all we're trying to achieve here today
14:52with the DNA.
14:53I'm not saying he's got a good track record.
14:55I'm not saying that you believe he's turned the corner.
14:56I can't be a dad, I'm saying.
14:58Carl will also be a dad.
15:00No matter what.
15:00Yeah, Carl will also be a dad.
15:02Because Carl's going to be with you, obviously.
15:04Do you think he's done a good job with us?
15:05Yeah, he has.
15:06Okay, have you ever said that to him?
15:07I've put my hands up to doing it.
15:09That's good.
15:10But when she's with me,
15:11I'm a dad.
15:12She's been a little taster.
15:13She's had everything she wanted with me.
15:15Are you happy to,
15:16I mean, a lot of women have a problem with,
15:18with, you know,
15:18my child going to his new woman.
15:20Are you happy?
15:21Are you happy for them to have your daughter
15:23if he is the father for the weekend?
15:24Oh, yeah.
15:25Do you both know that?
15:27I mean, Sam's been to my house in Efton.
15:29We've gone on fine.
15:30I'm beginning to fill up.
15:31It could work out.
15:32On a serious note,
15:34do you think you and Carl
15:35can restart a friendship?
15:37I mean, Carl could get back to talk again.
15:38Obviously, we always will.
15:40We'll always get back to talk.
15:41He is the next part of this equation.
15:44I exit the chair.
15:45Ladies and gentlemen, Carl.
15:52Look at you, little brother, Carl.
15:55Well, you've never been there for the baby rat.
16:01What are you laughing at?
16:03You've got nothing to you do.
16:04Yeah, she's with me.
16:07It's up to you.
16:08Yeah.
16:09Welcome to the show, Carl.
16:11You're right.
16:11That was a grin.
16:13You're all right?
16:13You've never been there, Carl.
16:14No, I wasn't with you when you were in prison.
16:16You were finished.
16:17I was in prison.
16:18You were with Tiff?
16:19Carl, Carl.
16:20We haven't.
16:21Hold on a second.
16:22Welcome to the show.
16:22We were doing quite well, see, because three people seem to be constructively trying to
16:26sort this out.
16:26So I want to ask you, right?
16:28We're not here to throw stones, actually, because it's quite boring.
16:30And you've come out all aggressive, which is fair enough.
16:32Some people would think that that's because you're feeling passionate.
16:34It doesn't matter.
16:35At the end of the day, we're trying to sort this out.
16:37Actually, we have an innocent child stuck in the middle.
16:39It's, wait a minute.
16:41Don't we?
16:41Now, you were with Tiffany, then you went to prison, then he got with Tiffany, and he
16:46went to prison, and then you got back with her.
16:47And I actually don't think that either of you, hold on a minute, I don't think either
16:50of you have a leg to stand on, and she's in the centre.
16:52But you know what?
16:53It's the child that matters.
16:54That's the only thing that matters.
16:55I wasn't with you when you went to prison.
16:57With you?
16:58The first time I wasn't with you.
16:59Is it fair to Nick, your best mate's girlfriend?
17:01Nick, are you lost in yourself, Nick?
17:03Me and Carl have finished, and then I started seeing him a week later.
17:06But he's in prison thinking he's with you, and you're with him.
17:08I was obviously with him when he was writing letters to other girls.
17:12But, I mean, this is your best, now hear me out, right?
17:15This is your best mate for 15 years.
17:17Answer me a question.
17:19I know what happens when certain parts of your body speak for your brain, but, truth,
17:23truth is, do you really, really do that to a best mate?
17:29Man to man, you don't, Carl, do you?
17:31He wasn't, he messed up for himself.
17:32And I know because you're smiling that you know where I'm coming from.
17:35You don't do that to your best mate, do you?
17:36You can't, Carl, call yourself a best mate.
17:40Who can't?
17:42You.
17:43We were best mates.
17:44We were best mates.
17:44You were phoning up, Calvin, from prison, and writing letters, doing what?
17:49He was on the end of the phone, so was Craig listening to what you were saying.
17:53Did you cheat on Tiff during your relationship?
17:55I went with a girl behind back, and I told her.
17:58Did you cheat on Tiff in your relationship?
18:01In mine, no.
18:02When you were first together, did you?
18:03No.
18:03No.
18:04So you love this lady?
18:05Yeah.
18:05Let's talk about the child quickly before we go to the audience.
18:07I also want to speak to Sandra as well, who is Calvin's mum, in just a sec.
18:13Can I ask you a question?
18:15You're there, you've been there 16 months, the child calls you dad.
18:19Yeah.
18:19How do you handle if, after the DNA test results come through, Calvin, biologically as the dad,
18:25his girlfriend, Calvin, and your lady have all said, we're going to do the right thing
18:28so that the child can have a relationship with its father.
18:30Can you handle that?
18:31Yeah.
18:32You can.
18:32Yeah.
18:33And we're not going to, do you two, I mean, you two actually could end up being.
18:35Carl, where's the one?
18:36I was wondering when we've got to get him.
18:38He's always sorted it out before.
18:40What about this constant calling and abusing and stuff?
18:44You've said this.
18:44You did bring up, you've asked him to bring up.
18:46Yeah, I've wrangled, see how the little one was.
18:50Got a load of abuse, he'll give it back and then hang up the phone.
18:52Said it before, no justification either side, there's a kid in the middle.
18:55I want to go to, I want to go to Sandra.
18:57You're going to have to jump up, Sandra, because my legs are giving up on me, I'm getting old.
19:01Calvin's mum, what do you want to say?
19:03I just want to say, if Tiff's happy with Carl, Calvin's happy with Sam, everybody's moved on.
19:08Let's sort it out for the baby.
19:11The voice of reason!
19:15Do you think, do you think that Calvin and Carl can restart a friendship?
19:22Calvin and Carl have been so close from the age of six.
19:26Yeah, I think they can.
19:26Do you think, you two, I'm being serious, do you think you could, you know, when the truth is out, you could go down the pub and just see reason?
19:33I'd like to hope so, yeah.
19:35You've known him since small boys, haven't you?
19:36Well, obviously your own son, you'd know him from day one.
19:38But, I mean, you've seen them develop a friendship for, what, 15 years?
19:42Yes, you couldn't, you couldn't part them.
19:44Oh, see, I sort of expected Sam to come rushing out going, rah, rah, rah, and Tiff, but actually, there's quite a consensus here, isn't there?
19:49Yeah.
19:50The fact is, we all have to take responsibility for our actions, and I do not understand, in the year 2005, why people do not know what contraception is all about.
19:58You know, it's beyond me.
20:00There is nothing wrong with a child, right?
20:03But a child should be an extension of love, not a sort of pawn or weapon in some game where people argue with each other 24 hours a day.
20:10There's been some discussion, Calvin, that on a couple of occasions, you've been offered, we don't know if it's your child yet, but the child on a Friday, and you haven't wanted to have the child because you want to go out drinking on a Friday night.
20:21No, what it was, I come home from, I was working away, I was working away and it was a Friday night, I was supposed to pick little and up, I come home about 2 o'clock in the morning, if not, later.
20:34Is that not right?
20:36And I did ring you and tell you that.
20:37No, you didn't ring me, I rang you.
20:39I said to you, where are you?
20:41You said, oh, I'm on my way back from work.
20:43I can't be bothered, I'll have her when I want to.
20:46If you, if you turn out, the point of this is this, right?
20:48If it turns out that you are the biological father, I am not having to go at you because I'll do it to everybody, you are going to have to grow up, right?
20:54You are going to have to leave that car on the drive and with this lady, work hard, you know what I'm saying?
20:59My car's staying on the drive.
20:59Graft, work.
21:00I get my lasses back next year, my car's staying on the drive.
21:03Are you already weird?
21:04These last few weeks.
21:05Good, no, listen, I'm not, I actually respect you for what you've done and I hope that the two of you can stick it, that's all I'm saying, right?
21:10At the end of the day.
21:12I hope, genuinely hope, that you two do not feel that you have a right to stop him if he turns out to be the child.
21:16Best things that ever happened to me.
21:17And this is why I'm here to sort it out.
21:19You want a DNA test?
21:21Yeah.
21:21If there is any threat or actual violence between now and the next show, you ain't getting the results.
21:28We will do that on the show, we will do the DNA test, we will find out the truth for the sake of this child and for the sake of everybody, okay?
21:34And then the next show will deal with the truth and you will have to move your lives forward.
21:39What do you thank Calvin, Tiffany, Sandra and Carl, ladies and gentlemen?
21:41Thank you very much indeed.
21:42Okay, now a DNA test beckons for these guests and we'll be with them every step of the way to ensure that they make the very best of the results, whichever way they go.
21:54We'll catch up with them very soon, but next we're going to meet a guy who's living in fear of literally losing his one true love to a condition that threatens a percentage, 1% of all women of the ages between 15 and 35.
22:05It is a very, very emotional subject, close to my heart from personal experience, but I'm determined to try and help this family find the strength to move on.
22:12It's all coming up, stay tuned.
22:29Okay, welcome back, thank you.
22:31I'm about to meet a man who's head over heels in love with the fiancé of his dreams.
22:35He's really scared, and I mean very scared, scared that the dream of marriage might be shattered forever by his partner's anorexia.
22:41Now, he's determined to do all he can to save a lady that was once just given two weeks to live, having been only four stone in weight at the age of 18.
22:50Let's welcome Paul.
22:59Respect you enormously for coming on.
23:02Background, really.
23:05It's a subject that I've slight personal experience of, so tell us what's been going on with you and Kerry.
23:11Basically, I want to save Kerry from this illness.
23:17It's like, the best way I look at it, and other people kind of look on that and learn from it, is it's like a split personality.
23:22You've got Kerry, the girl, and you've got a girl called anorexia.
23:26That's the best way.
23:27And when Kerry's having a, the problems she does have, I know it's, that's anorexia girl.
23:34That's that girl kicking in now.
23:35How long have you been together?
23:38A year and, just about a year and two weeks.
23:42Her, her fear is, apart from the fact that she doesn't like herself and she's no self-respect, and we'll talk about that, is, is that you're going to do one.
23:49Yeah.
23:50That you're going to disappear.
23:51Have you ever, and I'm being really honest to you, in the last 12 months there have been moments where you're just like, I don't know, I can't do this, I don't know enough, I'm just going to run.
23:58You don't, you don't think I'm going to run.
24:01The best way to handle it, if it gets too much, is go for a walk.
24:04That's the best way you can do it.
24:05She went into a, a unit, a ward.
24:09Yeah.
24:09A specialised ward.
24:10She was two weeks from death.
24:12Yeah.
24:12How do you handle that as a boy?
24:14I, I weren't with her at that time, because that was two years ago.
24:17I weren't with her.
24:19So, I don't know, when they told me, it really does, it's like a smack in the mouth of Mike Tyson, really.
24:26It is, it's just so, it hits you and you don't, you think for, for staying.
24:31What's it like looking at the woman you love, in effect, wasting away?
24:35Yeah.
24:36And, you know, in layman's terms, you go, you're not eating, you're going to lose weight, you're going to make yourself ill, end of story.
24:43What do you say to her?
24:44Start eating?
24:45What do you do?
24:45Um, well, basically, the best way to do it is eat with her.
24:50You, that's, that's one thing that does help, you eat with her, so she doesn't feel like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm a piggy, I'm, I'm eating without no one else.
24:59So, I don't, there are many things on this show that I have absolutely no experience in.
25:03I mean, this is, this is a subject, and I, I would be wrong to go into too much detail, but, um, my brother's wife was a professional ballerina, and at 18 years of age, was in a secure unit, four and a half stone, eating cotton wool.
25:18Yeah.
25:18Because it would put one pound on, and literally disappear the next day, and I have seen this woman blossom, to have a child, and watching this woman be pregnant was, with my nephew, unbelievable.
25:30And, it takes hard, hard graft, and it takes, and I, I have a real sympathy for the people, I don't know what you guys think, with the people who are part of this, because, how do you, if you don't understand it, or you don't know about it, somebody's not eating, they're making themselves ill, they're going to die.
25:45It's ridiculous, you did, and you want to say, eat, eat, for gold's sake, but you can't.
25:50We've had a couple of them, they, they just don't understand, they haven't got the time to, to realise what goes into it, it's not.
25:56Just, if, if I could just say to, uh, the ladies and gentlemen, um, some photos on the monitors of, of, of Kerry, weighing four and a half stone, and, I mean, you look at that, and, it's a before and after photograph there, and even in the, the photograph on the right, Kerry believes she's fat.
26:14Mm. I look at her as if to say, you know, you're killing yourself, just, every day that you're doing, you're killing yourself, if you don't, because we can, we can wake up and miss breakfast, and we can make up for it for lunch, but if she misses breakfast, that's her weight infected, it will drop.
26:28Yeah. It will drop. You, uh, you want to marry her, though? I do, yes. I'm really inspired by you, because you want to stick by this woman and do everything.
26:34Yes, yeah. You know, that's nice, isn't it?
26:37Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, what do you want to say to her today?
26:44Say to her, well, basically, I want to, she, she's the most beautiful girl I've ever seen, even if, in that picture's there, I just see Kez, you know, it doesn't affect, she, yeah, she's got, literally nothing of her, but, it's just Kez.
26:59I promise you I'll, I promise you I'll convince her, because there are not many blokes that I know, and I'm being completely honest, and I don't mean that disrespectfully, but there's a lot of people that would have picked up, and gone running and screaming in the opposite direction, don't you think this guy's a bit of a diamond, ladies and gentlemen?
27:10Um, you'll understand, I think, with anybody coming on a show like this, it's difficult, but especially somebody who's battling something as
27:20as, dehabilitating as anorexia, will you put your hands together, please, for Kerry on the show?
27:24He's totally right, you're beautiful, thank you, thank you for coming on, um, ready for this?
27:39Yep.
27:39Um, I know you're here, because you want help, I know you're here, because you want to turn your life around, and the first point would be, what an amazing bloke.
27:49He is.
27:50Hold hands or something, please, I'll just get to move in.
27:53I'm filling up now.
27:55Kerry, um, one thing I read, and I make no secret of this, the, the reasons behind something like this, are, are many.
28:04Advertising how women are perceived, peer pressure at school, tell us how, in your mind, the anorexia started, tell us your story.
28:13Um, well, basically, when I was 11, um, I wasn't fat, but it was puppy fat, and I got comments at school, like, big bum and, um, fat, and, um, I just went on a diet,
28:28but it kind of went a bit more out of control than that, um, I lost a couple of people that were really close to me when I was 12, um, and I think that all set in as well.
28:38Um, um, I had quite a few problems with my mum when, um, I was younger and growing up, because my mum had OCD, um, like cleaning,
28:50and it was kind of hard to have friends around, because she would have to clean, or, um, and I found that difficult to deal with,
28:59and, um, I guess I took my eating as something I could control, because I couldn't control the way my mum was.
29:05It was your thing, wasn't it?
29:06Yeah, that was my thing, and, you know, I couldn't help my mum to get better, and I couldn't control the way she was,
29:12and so I took it all on my eating.
29:15You've been admitted to weight clinics on many occasions, and a couple of years ago, um, you were given two weeks to live.
29:23Can you put into your own words, because to the average person, and I'm one of them, right, it doesn't make real sense.
29:32I understand where you're coming from.
29:33I'm just saying, when you're in the room and somebody says, if you don't do something about your diet, you're going to die.
29:39What are you thinking when somebody says that?
29:42Um, I mean, I was, I was, I wasn't.
29:45I was scared, because at that point, I knew, I knew I was seriously ill, but when people kept telling me, when I kept going back to doctors,
29:53and before I was put into hospital, um, they kept saying, oh, you know, you're underweight, and, you know, um, your organs are going to pack up.
30:02My blood pressure was really low.
30:04I kept collapsing, um, just basically wasn't eating.
30:08Do you stick your head in the sand when somebody says that?
30:11Yeah, I just.
30:11I'm going to listen to you, I'll get it right.
30:12Yeah, I know, it's, it's just like, the way I, the way I was seeing it was just, they were just all saying it because they wanted to make me fat as well, and...
30:20What do you see when you look in the mirror?
30:24I have good days and bad days.
30:26Generally?
30:26Generally, when I look in the mirror, I think I'm fat and ugly.
30:35The help that you got and have been getting at these various clinics, constructive, good?
30:39Um, yep, they were really good, um, my last admission, um, was, you know, one of the best admissions, I, I think I put more into it than I had on previous, um, it was just unfortunate that when I came out I was raped, so.
30:58Sorry?
30:58I was raped when I came out last time, so that kind of knocked my self-confidence.
31:06I mean, we can, you know, we can only talk about that if you want to talk about that, we have to be careful of specifics, but it seems that at every toss and turn you have had real trouble.
31:14Um, I know you talked about losing a couple of people at 12, bullying at school, you've talked about rape there.
31:21You've had to handle so much, and I don't mean to be disrespectful, because I met you earlier and I'm not being, because I admire you.
31:27You've been self-harming as well, haven't you?
31:29Yeah.
31:30Another, another thing that is all about control.
31:35Somebody, do you know, somebody said to me once, and I'll never forget this, one of the radio shows I do, somebody said to me,
31:40you have to understand, Jeremy, I need to bleed, and I remember thinking, what does that mean?
31:46And them saying, it's the only thing I can do in my room when the door is shut and nobody else is around.
31:53And, I don't know, where are you at with that? Is that something that is under control?
31:57Um, well, basically it got bad when I was put into a unit, because I couldn't control my eating.
32:02Um, so, I kind of used self-harm as a way to, as another sense of control, and to sort of punish myself because I was eating,
32:14so self-harm became my kind of second best thing, I suppose.
32:19That buzz that somebody once told me about, for you, you cut yourself, what happens? Rush?
32:25Yeah, you get, you just, for a split second you feel relief. It doesn't last long.
32:30Then feel shame?
32:31Yeah. You feel shame afterwards.
32:33Dirty?
32:34Yep. Horrible.
32:36Promise yourself never to do it again.
32:37Yep.
32:38And then it happens again.
32:39Yeah.
32:40Um, we're going to bring out your mum in just a tick, um, and I just, I'm really inspired by Paul and your mum,
32:46because they genuinely, genuinely want to help, and they genuinely want to do what is right for you,
32:54but I think you'd understand it's very difficult, because your average person says eat.
32:58It's not about that. It's about you learning to love yourself.
33:03Do you believe, irrespective of this motley crew, do you believe that this man is genuine?
33:08Because I sure as hell do.
33:10Yeah, I do.
33:10He should be every inspiration you need, because you know that?
33:15He's actually said at the worst times, this is the most beautiful girl in the world,
33:20and if you could just somewhere in your heart and soul start to believe him, just on a daily basis this will grow and this would work,
33:26because there are plenty of people, men and women, let's make that point.
33:29My brother was anorexic at one point in his life.
33:32There are plenty of men and women who don't have anybody or anything to hold on to,
33:36and I think you've got a diamond.
33:37I'm not saying it's easy.
33:38We've got a fantastic team backstage, Claire, our therapist and teams,
33:42and we will do and offer you anything we can and see this through.
33:45It's not a quick fix.
33:46It can't be.
33:47But this guy should be, maybe she's right there next to you.
33:51Should we bring your mum on?
33:52Yeah.
33:52Ladies and gentlemen, Mummy Lynn on the show.
33:55Welcome to the show.
34:08Hi.
34:09I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like as a parent to see your child, your baby, literally wasting away.
34:18Tell us from your point of view.
34:20Absolutely devastating.
34:21Ever since Kerry was 13, we've been suffering ever since.
34:27I also believe that Kerry's still very bulimic.
34:30She makes herself sick.
34:34I can't prove that she does it, but...
34:36Talk to me.
34:37Instinct tells me that there are...
34:40Go on.
34:40Yeah.
34:42Do you know what happens when you make yourself sick?
34:44The particles on the back of your throat start to work in the wrong direction.
34:49You can't digest anything.
34:51It affects, quite literally, over time, your intestine.
34:54You know all that, though, don't you?
34:56Yep.
34:57You know everything, don't you?
34:58Did you know that?
34:59I didn't know.
35:00I know.
35:01Can I ask you a very personal question?
35:05And obviously, it's the morning and we have to be careful.
35:07One of the downsides, one of the side effects of anorexia or bulimia is that it can affect
35:15a woman's cycle.
35:16Has that happened?
35:19Well, it has done for quite a few years, but just lately I am.
35:24So, if this doesn't change, and I'm being honest, the chance...
35:27I mean, do you want to be a mum one day?
35:28Yeah.
35:30That's not going to be possible.
35:32True?
35:33Is that a shock?
35:33A shock that it hits me, it hurts me that if I can't, it may not ever happen, but there's
35:42still, there's always that chance.
35:45Are you shocked that Carrie's also bulimic?
35:48I knew she was doing it, because Lynn's told me.
35:51You can tell me to get lost, can't you?
35:53How often, sweet?
35:54Um...
35:55Truthfully?
35:57About twice a day.
35:59After every meal?
36:01No, not after every meal.
36:02My main problem is my evening meal.
36:05Fingers down the back of the throat?
36:07Yeah.
36:09You know, today's about being honest, I think you're incredible, all of you, genuinely incredible.
36:13And you know what?
36:14It's almost like, let's wipe the slate completely clean, because nobody, if I have anything to
36:19do with it, nobody in this studio would ever judge you, because I think that your courage
36:23in coming on here and talking like this is unbelievable.
36:26Don't you think that, ladies and gentlemen?
36:27Absolutely.
36:30The surefire way of not dealing with a problem is to fight it.
36:33You are not doing that.
36:34I want to go to the audience, I'm sure there's lots of people who have something to say here.
36:37Nice hair.
36:38What's your name?
36:38Thank you, my name's Adenine.
36:40Adenine.
36:40Adenine.
36:41Whatever.
36:42What do you want to say?
36:44Well, like she said, I look at you and I think you're so pretty, seriously.
36:47I seriously think that.
36:49And it's just like, you're so lucky to have a man standing beside you, and also your mum
36:53as well.
36:54I look at all of you, and you know, you're very strong for coming up in the show and
36:58saying how you feel.
36:59And at the end of the day, it's all about your self-confident, look at yourself in the
37:03mirror, you know, there's nothing wrong with you.
37:04And I will not say it in the show, just because I'm on a show and I'm lying.
37:07I'm looking at you right now and I see nothing wrong with you.
37:09Beautiful, isn't she?
37:10Seriously, you're so pretty.
37:11So keep telling yourself you're pretty.
37:13Thank you very much, indeed.
37:15Up you go.
37:15Yes?
37:16Oh, we're busy.
37:16What's your name?
37:17Alexandra.
37:18What do you want to say, Alex?
37:18Oh, yeah.
37:19I just wondered, all the problems that you've had over the years, have you had counselling
37:23to deal with those initial problems?
37:24Because it's not just about loving yourself and thinking, yeah, you're pretty.
37:27Obviously, it's all the underlying problems.
37:29Yeah, well, I'm trying to get some counselling at the moment.
37:33Okay.
37:34Good luck.
37:34I'm going to set you a challenge.
37:36I mean, there's no timescale on this, right?
37:38But I'm not going to let you out of my sight.
37:40Backstage, Claire and a whole team, do you want real help?
37:43It doesn't matter whether you say yay or nay.
37:46Will you try and see it through with the love of this man and this lady?
37:49Yes.
37:49I want us to stay in contact.
37:51I want this show to stay in contact with you.
37:53I want you to come back at one point, because I want you to make me a promise.
37:56On national television.
37:58Say, Jeremy, I'm going to sort my life and you are going to come to our wedding.
38:02Okay.
38:03I want an invite!
38:05I want an invite!
38:07Can I have an invite?
38:08Yeah.
38:08I'm very, I'm very partial to a vol-a-von.
38:12I like them.
38:13But listen, I think, I think the audience would agree.
38:16Diamond.
38:17Absolute diamond.
38:19Beautiful, beautiful girl, whose life has been blighted, who is courageous as hell.
38:24And I swear, with the people around you and real help, you can turn your life around.
38:28I know it's been difficult.
38:29The three of you together actually worn my heart and I never say that.
38:31Ladies and gentlemen, Paul, Kerry and Lynne.
38:41Next you move from someone fighting a very personal battle with herself to a couple constantly
38:45doing battle with each other.
38:46A baby's father is in doubt and the family's future is at stake.
39:15It's time for some tough talking.
39:16We'll do it next.
39:18APPLAUSE
39:19Maybe you've left an ex, but now you need them back.
39:40We provide the proof so that you can get the truth.
39:42What you need to do is pick up the phone now and text the word TALK and your name to
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39:54Do it now.
39:56CHEERING
39:56Thank you very much.
40:03Now, welcome back.
40:04Our next guest has had a drug addiction spanning 10 years and I'm pleased to say that he's
40:09now winning his personal battle against this deadly addiction.
40:12But why is his past still haunting him?
40:14He claims he was so out of it last year that he can't even recall sleeping with his own fiance.
40:19Someone did though because she got pregnant and has since had the baby.
40:24But is that baby his?
40:25Let's ask him.
40:26Ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome Stephen to the show.
40:31That was nearly a trendy hands thing.
40:36It all went wrong, didn't it?
40:38Stephen, welcome.
40:40Everybody has a chance to tell their story.
40:43Briefly, what's been going on?
40:45Well, I've been with my partner four or five years and we've been trying for a number of
40:52years to have a child and she's never felt pregnant.
40:55Then she got pregnant last year.
40:57Aye.
40:58The centre of all of this story, without cutting to the chase for any other reason that
41:01there's so much to talk about, is a drug habit.
41:04Both of you initially, although we'll talk to Charmaine in some detail, she's moved on.
41:08You are a recovering drug addict, is that fair enough to say?
41:11Yes, aye.
41:12You're currently on a course of methadone, which is highly addictive and it is a very
41:17horrible and difficult thing to do but incredibly rewarding.
41:20I think that deserves a round of applause.
41:22And I mean that.
41:24A lot of people start it and don't finish it.
41:27Is this the moment you're going to stop and turn your life around?
41:31Aye.
41:31Definitely.
41:32Definitely.
41:33Why?
41:33Because I've got a son and he comes fast.
41:40If this child is yours, the catalyst, as you said, to turn your life around and stay clean,
41:48because I said it earlier, being a father, being a mother is the most rewarding, hardest,
41:51but most rewarding thing in the world.
41:53What do you think will happen the next time something goes wrong in your life?
41:57Wobetide doesn't happen, but let's just say this child isn't yours or something goes on
42:01in your life.
42:02Are you going to slip back down the slope or is this the moment that you say, I am changing
42:07my life for the better?
42:08I still like to change for the better.
42:10Even if I find out he's not mine, I believe we need some kind of counselling.
42:15Explain to us why you believe, and I will help you with that, I think it's fantastic, explain
42:19why you believe this child might not be yours, briefly.
42:22Because at the time, well, first of all, we've been trying to have a child for a number of
42:27years, and as I say, my partner never had one.
42:32Also, I caught chlamydia, and I don't know exactly when it was, but I was diagnosed with
42:37it and treated, but I could be infertile, possibly.
42:41Plus the period of time where she fell pregnant, the date, I can't remember sleeping with her.
42:48What do you mean you can't remember sleeping with her?
42:50Well, I was on drugs and alcohol at the time, so was my partner, and she'd come into money
42:56and be really enjoying myself.
42:58Let's waste no more time, if that's all right with you.
43:00Absolutely.
43:01I want to get Charmaine out, because there's an awful lot to talk about.
43:03Ladies and gentlemen, Charmaine, welcome her to the show.
43:13Thanks for coming on, sweet.
43:15I know you're upset, you've been upset backstage.
43:18I want everybody, always, to have a say.
43:21What's going on here?
43:23What's upsetting you?
43:25Just at the fact that Stephen doesn't believe me 100%, that he has that doubt.
43:32about the baby not being nice.
43:34Your gripe here is, last year, for a month, when you didn't know what time of day it was,
43:39that Charmaine must have slept with somebody else, because you've been trying for four years.
43:44Uh-huh.
43:45You might have contracted an STD, which could have left you infertile.
43:50I did contract them.
43:51There's been other talk of how the drugs have affected performance,
43:55without going into specifics at this time of the day on television.
43:58So, in your mind, insecure, coming off drugs, a little bit paranoid, to be fair.
44:05It must be someone else.
44:07Talk to her.
44:10She cheated in the past on me.
44:12Is that true?
44:13Yeah, and I told him.
44:15Sorry?
44:16I admitted that to him.
44:17When was that?
44:18About three and a half, four years ago, maybe.
44:21Do you understand?
44:22You're left to speak up, because I'm getting old.
44:24Can't hear a thing.
44:25Do you understand that once you do something like that,
44:28however much you protest to somebody, your innocence at the back of their mind,
44:32they're going to say, yeah, but you've done it once, you're going to do it again.
44:35Coupled with the fact that he's facing this massive battle,
44:37it's not for me to convince him.
44:39Maybe it isn't even for you to convince him, but what do you want to say to him?
44:43Because this is a guy in turmoil.
44:44I can only take at face value what he says.
44:46He says he wants to beat the drug habit.
44:48He wants to be a dad.
44:49He wants to do everything.
44:50And yet this is tearing apart two people who love each other, I guess.
44:55Yeah, I just can't.
44:57I just can't go on anymore.
44:59This needs to be ended once and for all.
45:02Tell me about the violence.
45:04When we argue about it, I keep trying to convince him about the baby that he is his.
45:11And when he doesn't listen, I feel as if he doesn't listen to what I'm trying to tell him and I lash out.
45:17You lash out in what respect?
45:19Verbally, physically, and I'm not proud of it.
45:24It's something I regret very much.
45:27What do you do when she lashes out at you physically?
45:29I'm trying to strain her.
45:31What's happened to you two as a couple?
45:33Physically, emotionally, psychologically?
45:36For me, I feel as if I don't have any confidence.
45:42An emotional wreck.
45:44Because he won't believe you?
45:46Yeah.
45:47I think.
45:48Have you tried believing her?
45:50I've tried, aye, but there's that many things that keep putting fuel in the doubt, if you know what I mean.
45:57Now, I have to say something and I don't want to upset either of you.
46:00You know, we will gladly on the Jeremy Kyle Show do a DNA test, okay?
46:04But the violence that you've talked about, if there is any hint, any hint of violence between now and the results, it's cancelled.
46:14It's panned.
46:15I can't, I can't do that, okay?
46:17We cannot and will not partake in a DNA test if there is violence included.
46:21And you have to guarantee me, the both of you, however frustrating, however difficult, you want the answers, we'll help you.
46:28But you have to, you have to try and be as cool as you can in the next couple of weeks.
46:32Do you think you can do that?
46:33Yeah.
46:34Do you think you could not lash out?
46:35Yeah.
46:36I could, yeah.
46:37And, you know, if you need any justification for not lashing out at each other, just think of the innocent child who's seeing all of this.
46:42I'd like to go to the audience if I can, I'm sure there are people who want to ask questions.
46:45Hands all over the place, all running up and down.
46:47Up to the top.
46:48Do-do-do-do-do-do.
46:50Hello.
46:51What do you want to say?
46:52I was in a relationship for four years and it didn't involve drugs or anything like that, but it was quite a violent relationship.
46:59And I had to tell him, he refused to believe that I was faithful to him, and I really was.
47:04And it was the same thing, you slept with him, you slept with him, over and over again.
47:08And you're either going to accept someone for the good and the bad, or you get rid of them.
47:13There's no two ways about it.
47:14Honestly, if you're feeling low and you can't accept what she's telling you, then for your own sake and for her sake, go separate ways.
47:21Do you think that he can change? Yeah, I agree with that.
47:23Do you think that Stephen can change with help with the right counselling for the drug addiction?
47:29Do you think that when he comes off the methadone treatment, he actually will be able to see things with more clarity?
47:34If you read the drug aspect, if you can learn off of the good example that's being set to you, then you've got every hope to be happy together.
47:40Fantastic. Thank you very much indeed.
47:42Anybody else?
47:43It's interesting, isn't it?
47:45No worries.
47:46Because a lot of people who come on this sort of show refuse to see any sort of fault in their behaviour, refuse to accept that they have to take responsibility.
47:56And I do. I mean, I might be wider than Mark, people might disagree with me, but I genuinely think Stephen wants to do something about his drug addiction and we have to take at face value what he said.
48:03And I want to wish you luck with that because, you know, the most important thing is getting your life straight.
48:08And I hope it is your child, but whether it is or it isn't, you know, that has to be your commitment on national television.
48:14I want to turn my life around with real help, with real guidance, with real advice, so I make myself a better person.
48:19And if there's this child to live for, fantastic.
48:22And maybe that child has been the reason that you've got the kick up the backside, but I wish you luck with that.
48:26Don't you agree with that, guys?
48:28Yeah.
48:29Charmaine.
48:31Well, look...
48:32Difficult.
48:33Difficult.
48:34Difficult.
48:35I'm sure it's...
48:36I'm sure it eats away at you.
48:37The guy you love...
48:38And you're both...
48:39You're both insecure and you've been weakened by the stuff that you've been taking.
48:42You're further along the line than Stephen, but you know, you've got to understand it must be difficult to have this constant worry.
48:48But it happened before, and men especially are totally useless at forgetting things like that.
48:53I just think the two of you, right, if you supported each other a little bit more, other than threw stuff at each other, insults, bricks, whatever...
49:00whatever the child is there we'll do the DNA test I have to repeat what I said
49:05about the violence it's not something that we can do if you don't adhere to
49:09that but we'll get you back on we'll see this through and I hope it's fine and I
49:13hope the two of you can sail off into the distance having beaten these
49:16addictions and be the parents that that child needs ladies and gentlemen Steven
49:19and Charmaine
49:30thank you to those guys I'd like to say a huge thank you to all my guests for
49:33being here today it does take I think you'll agree ladies gentlemen real guts
49:36to admit that you've got a problem and a whole heap of courage to actually
49:40confront it I'll take my hat off to everyone that was brave enough to call
49:43the Jeremy Kyle show it took bottle to ask for help but I'm pretty confident all
49:46of those that did are now beginning to get the sort of support that they
49:49perhaps feared might never be there for them just remember we're only a phone
49:53call away from anyone that needs us and we are I promise you 100% committed to
49:57getting results for all of our guests we're out of time now but please stay
50:00tuned on ITV1 this morning is coming next we'll see you soon
50:27you