Catch up on all the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Labour Member of Parliament for Gravesham Dr Lauren Sullivan and Liberal Democrats Member of Parliament for Tunbridge Wells Mike Martin.
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00:00hello and welcome to the Kent politics show live here on KMTV the show that gets Kent's
00:29politicians talking I'm Olivier de Sacks and this time next week all eyes will be on Kent County
00:35Council the results of the May elections votes will be tallied expectations will be managed and
00:40voters at home will finally have a clearer picture which party may be running one of Kent's largest
00:46local authorities with tariff wars conflicts in Europe and immigration all dominating national
00:51headlines are the local issues for voters in the county being lost in the noise what makes sense
00:57for all I'm joined by Dr Lauren Sullivan the MP for Gravesham and down the line Mike Martin
01:02the MP for Tunbridge Wells thank you both for joining me here on the program and I think we
01:09might as well start off with the big obvious question of the day a week to go campaigns raging on we've
01:16seen leaders coming down to Kent over the last couple of days I'll start with you Lauren as
01:20someone who used to be the opposition leader at Kent County Council what do you think is going to happen
01:26because it's been a conservative held council for many many years but there are feelings that it
01:31could not even be an outright majority for any party well indeed I think you know the conservatives
01:37have been in control I think since its inception hundreds over a hundred years ago for all of it
01:43apart from four years when that time there was a labor liberal coalition and you know we've got to
01:49look at the record of the conservatives in county hall it's got the highest send spend in the courts
01:57than any other county you know in the UK so there are and you mentioned in your introduction there about
02:04the national issues this is local this is a local election and we really must focus on the track record
02:10and the of the local issues so special educational needs adult social services potholes I mean we've heard
02:17it all this is really the election where we can try and correct some of those issues and obviously
02:22Mike Tunbridge Wells was a big success story for the little democrats last year at the local elections
02:26do you think you can catch that on that again this year over in Tunbridge Wells and that part of Kent
02:33oh I think so I mean I think there's there's two stories one is when it was complete collapse
02:38of the conservatives I mean what you see at a national level is is is replicated locally uh they're terrified of reform and
02:48they're trying to ape them really they're chasing after the same uh vote and at the same time people in Tunbridge Wells
02:54look around and they see a really well-run borough council uh that has no debt the finances sorted services are provided uh and they see that success and they think yeah and that's that's hopefully we're hoping for a good night next week
02:56obviously one person you mentioned reform there their party they have mentioned lost their national policy and that's the deportation minister in Kent yesterday and they are looking to do quite well electoral calculus predicts they could secure 41 seats or a possible 81
03:16do you worry that they may end up taking some of those seats the conservatives may not win but your parties may not prosper so we've had some of the reform leaflets through our door as well and what has struck me and is slightly worrying is that on two of the main three pledges that they've said one of them is about housing and the reform leaflets and the reform leaflets and the reform leaflets are in the
03:46housing which is a district or borough issue and the other one is about the police now the police are set by the police and crime commission and they are completely separate they're a partner we you know kent county council do dictate so i am actually concerned about the competency and actually you need you know whenever time people are going to the ballot box and we will be knocking doors up until you know 10pm polls close we've really got to impress upon the importance of knowing your local candidate
04:16and actually who is the best person and actually who is the best person that's going to be competent that is going to actually be able to raise the issues and know what kent county council is about
04:23so i think it raises a good question mike obviously with um liberal democrats being a third party in national politics but having significant um experience running councils up and down the country do you think liberal democrats can actually answer the challenges that put that reform are questioning in local government they say they need to be doged needs to be um cutting at a local level is that something liberal democrats would agree with
04:49yeah well i think oliver you've hit the nail on the head uh we used to run the most councils in local government and and we're hoping to actually overtake the conservatives in terms of the number of councils that we run in these elections next week and i think lauren's right it is about that deep experience both knowing the community but also knowing what the possibilities are in local government and far from cutting local government i mean this is a joke from right you know nigel farage saying that they're going to have a doge style
05:17you know this is the elon musk thing in america a slashing of local government services i mean local governments are on their knees and the story in kent is not only are they uh suffering from a lack of funds but they're also chronically mismanaged by the tories there's been dodgy property investments that they've lost out on kent is 750 million pounds in debt 750 million pounds in debt and a lot of that is mismanagement and so the idea that we're going to cut
05:46cut local services when they're already on their knees is nuts what we need and what libdem's are offering is better financial management at kent county council so that we can get those potholes fixed so that we can as lauren said sort out i think lauren wants to jump in on this one mike so for the past four years at kent county council while i was leader and now alistair brady is as leader of the labour group on kent county council we've put together an alternative budget and that's been going working with the officers but also for the
06:16finding and finding and carving out exactly how we would want to you know manage kent county council this includes things like prevention and kids play service youth work which has been utterly slashed and our young people are desperate for mental health support diverging activities things to do but as well as looking at how we bring back in a kent transport model which is more in house more in keeping with an integrated kent transport model
06:46but as well as looking at kent but as well as looking at adult social care so we have got a you know we've got a manifesto commitment the labour group down there but also we've gone we've done the hard yarn in looking at an alternative budget which is legally sound off and is ready to go
07:01is ready to go i suppose the question would be because usually authorities like um are going to be the future here in kent kcc is to be the last ever local elections here and since the integrated transport model will be under the power of a new kent mayor whenever that will be for the time being kent county council is financially dependent on local government and as legislators in the room right here you would have the power if there was to be a bill or anything tabled in the house of commons to vote on that
07:31back on council spending surely this isn't to do with financial mismanagement by any party it's to do with financial mismanagement by government and some that a labour government right now could potentially address
07:42so there has been an uplift and there's been ring fence money for potholes for you know adult social services there's been ring fence money sent down to councils is it where it needs to be no it's not and i've been very vocal in that space of going no actually local government if you fix the
07:59the problem and the hole and the black hole in local government spending you really help address some of the issues and certainly the public services that are on their knees
08:07but yeah austerity was a ideology that was set under cameron and osborne so many years ago and these are the consequences that we're looking to bear so even though it was a conservative kent county council
08:21with a conservative government they didn't receive those funds under a labour government there are more funds coming to the local government
08:28yes rearrangement but we need to you know investment in public services and mike obviously liberal democrats did play their part in those 14 years
08:35conservative government in coalition and those cuts did cripple a lot of councils across kent here in the uk
08:43do the liberal democrats currently support more investment to local government will that be a policy that your party does support currently
08:48absolutely and and you know as i said earlier we've got a very good track record in local government so we think that it should be funded
08:57and i think just on the point of fact uh we were obviously in coalition with the conservatives and
09:03and and and we did need to reduce the national deaths at that point but a lot of those harshest cuts
09:08particularly to local government happened uh once the conservatives were were governing on their own
09:14and what we've been arguing for is a longer term financial settlement because at the moment the way it
09:20often works with councils who get your budget for a year and then these other pots of money some of which
09:25lauren has cited you have to bid for so you and each one is a separate pot of money that takes time to
09:31bid for us and so we've consistently been arguing for longer term financial settlement say three to five
09:37years so that councils can plan over the longer term and that makes everything cheaper if you're not
09:43having to re-bid for services or re-bid for funding every year it's much cheaper when you have a five-year
09:48envelope so that's really where we come to this from as a political party at national level
09:53but i suppose the question would be is this good value for money kcc won't be here in a few years
09:59time and this election will may dictate what sort of settlement um kent council and local government
10:05has with westminster going forward what authorities there might be what the map of kent might look like
10:11but kcc won't be here in the same way in a few years time is having an election on this scale really
10:16good value for money i think it's important for democracy i think they where reorganization and
10:24re is happening elsewhere in the country those elections have been delayed and i don't i don't
10:29agree with that i think we should have elections because uh the previous four-year record needs to
10:34be held to be held to account um you know in theory it won't be here in three years time
10:40we do need to have make sure that the you know people there that are representative communities
10:45to to steady the the ship forward and on this note we did we did speak to um carla jenning and then
10:54denver from the green party earlier today she was in kent campaigning and one of the potential routes
10:59to a majority in kcc is a rainbow coalition between different parties liberal democrats greens and
11:05independents and the potential thing that's been floated mike would that be a potential route that
11:10you would like to see obviously i know you're seeing outright liberal democrat majority but very
11:14quickly would that be a pathway that you would welcome i mean i think we've got to count the votes
11:19first uh it's not really about our hypotheticals of what happens after polling day um we're gonna
11:25you know as lauren said earlier we're gonna be working right up to 10 p.m on polling day to get the best
11:29possible results and then we'll just have to see there what the numbers are well 12 minutes is never
11:35enough time to talk about all the big issues like local elections we're back after the break we're
11:40talking a little bit about national stalking awareness week and women's safety here in the county please
11:45stick with us
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16:48And so what it is, is it's just a way of, because vulnerability is a fact, but it's also a feeling,
16:55it's a way of reducing those feelings of vulnerability amongst people who are maybe walking home late at night
17:00or perhaps, you know, going through a quiet area of town.
17:04I suppose it's that thing where, while it's great that there is going to be this service to women
17:10and vulnerable people in Tunbridge Wells,
17:13it shouldn't necessarily have to fall on small businesses and independent shops to provide these safe havens.
17:19Do you think that this is meeting a failure in provision from government, from local authorities, from local services?
17:27Well, I actually think these things are conversations, they're societal issues,
17:36and government can't necessarily solve societal issues.
17:40And you also need to come at things from a multi-pronged approach.
17:44So safe havens is the first thing that we're launching.
17:47There are other elements to it.
17:49I've been talking with head teachers in Tunbridge Wells as well about what they do with their sixth formers
17:56and facilitating conversations between boys and girls to increase communication,
18:00help boys understand sometimes how girls feel.
18:04And also there's other things like Ask Angela, where you can go into a bar,
18:07or if you're on a date, say you've met someone on Tinder, you can go to the bar and ask for Angela,
18:12and that's a kind of code word that enables you to get out of that because you feel unsafe.
18:16So there's actually lots of things that you do.
18:18But I do think it's a societal thing, and it's about raising awareness.
18:23It's about simple, practical things that you can do, like safe havens or Ask for Angela.
18:28And it's also about conversations so that everybody knows where we are and what we need to do.
18:34So, you know, I think there are limits to what it is that the government can do.
18:39Although, of course, the police, you know, who are involved in some of these initiatives,
18:44like they go into schools and run sessions, are the bit of the government that is working on that.
18:49So it takes all of us to work together to solve these problems.
18:53And Lauren, I'm going to bring you in here because I know that you are sitting on the committee
18:57that overlooks the police and crime bill.
19:00It's a major sweeping piece of legislation that will tackle incidents like sexual harassment, like stalking.
19:07And I'm just wondering, because for viewers at home, they know that this bill is coming.
19:10It's been talked about a lot.
19:12But what will it do?
19:13And perhaps maybe as someone who sits on the committee,
19:15you might explain why it's taking so long to be implemented across the country.
19:21So I'm very, very pleased to be able to sit on this police and crime bill.
19:27And what we do is every two days, so for the full day, Tuesdays and Thursdays,
19:33we go through line by line each and every clause, scrutinise it, make sure that it is up to scratch.
19:40And essentially, this bill includes things like antisocial behaviour charges,
19:45so where motorbikes are or off-road bikes, no need of warning, they can be just seized.
19:52Yesterday, on Thursday, we were talking about spiking as well as stalking.
19:57And what is a really quite a harrowing fact is that of the women that are killed in this country,
20:0590% of them were stalked beforehand.
20:08Now, this is not just a – this isn't a red flag.
20:11This is a thundering alarm.
20:15And what this bill will do is mean that it's not just a police order that require, you know,
20:20a stalking or protection order.
20:22The courts can also go straight to that and put that protection in place.
20:28But I think Mike is right in terms of it's not just about the police.
20:33And we know that police resources are stretched,
20:35even though there's going to be these 13,000 new police officers and they are going back on the beat.
20:40But it's a society issue as well.
20:43And educating boys and young men and men about actually, you know, this behaviour is not acceptable.
20:49Here's help if you need it.
20:51But it is not acceptable.
20:52And we have to stamp out stalking as well as other forms of violence against women and girls and, of course, men.
20:59I suppose I would like to ask, what do you think is a step to be taken?
21:03Because it's not just about addressing it after the fact, as this bill will do.
21:08It's about preventing it.
21:09What further things do you think need to be done in our communities here in Kent, like in Gravesham, like in Tunbridge Wells,
21:15to prevent these sorts of things happening?
21:17So, you know, we have to address the underlying causes, I suppose.
21:23And, you know, the rise of misogyny online and the online space,
21:29and we're seeing how those ideas are being translated in our schools and in our classrooms and in our workplaces.
21:38You know, those online spaces also need to be challenged.
21:41And the Online Safety Act will be able to enforce those kind of contents to be taken down.
21:46But it's a societal thing.
21:48And we need to be having good, positive role models for our young men.
21:53And, again, this comes back to the desegregation of the youth service that we've seen.
21:58And we need to have those strong male role models to show that, you know, this is how you talk to a woman.
22:05This is a strong and healthy relationship.
22:09And I think this is something that we have to continuously work on.
22:14But we've also got to call out and show that these crimes that are being committed against women,
22:21and I've had women come to see me in my MP surgery, and I'm grateful for them for sharing their story,
22:26it is horrendous.
22:29And at the moment, there doesn't seem to be any action, any consequence for that behaviour.
22:33No, no, no.
22:34An end of that.
22:35This is damaging.
22:37It creates long-term trauma.
22:39We have to put an end to this.
22:40But we can do that in a way that, again, carrot and stick point of view, note this is not acceptable.
22:47There will be criminal sanctions, and you'll be put away in prison.
22:50But actually, here are the positive role models.
22:52Here is what a good, healthy relationship looks like.
22:55I suppose I think it's quite interesting that, because back in 2023, there was a Sex-Based Harassment in Public Act
23:01that was implemented to try and address this, but currently they're still awaiting statutory implementation around it.
23:09I know it's something you've spoken about as well, Mike, in Parliament.
23:12I'm just wondering, do you think there's an issue, perhaps, with how much we move at pace when it comes to these sorts of bills?
23:20It's all well and good passing them and discussing them in Parliament, but if we don't actually implement them in a timely manner,
23:25these things just keep happening.
23:28Yeah.
23:29I mean, the Protection Against Sex-Based Harassment in Public Bill was passed in September 2023.
23:35So, 18 months ago, actually, I paid tribute to my predecessor, Greg Clark, who's the MP for Tunbridge Wells.
23:44He actually brought that as a private member's bill.
23:47It's a very simple bill, and all it needs is a statutory instrument to be passed by the Secretary of State.
23:53And I have asked a number of times why that hasn't happened and when it's happened.
23:58No answer yet.
23:59I will keep pushing.
24:00And I think there is a sense that perhaps we do need to be a little bit more urgent about these things.
24:07You know, as Horan said, this is happening now.
24:10And in some cases, it's getting worse.
24:12So, we do need to move.
24:14I mean, these are things that are police and crime commissioners as well.
24:18They are the ones that are elected to hold to account the police constable.
24:21And actually, there's something to be said about we need a kind of a national collection of, I wouldn't say data,
24:27but essentially, how can we hold to account police forces across the country, including here in Kent,
24:33about their record on crimes against women and girls?
24:37And do you think that, would you like to see a policy that would establish kind of consistency within that?
24:43I've heard talking to survivors of domestic abuse about siloisation between different organisations.
24:49Data's not being collected in the same way and not being passed around effectively.
24:53So, in Gratian, we've had a violence against women and girls strategy for quite a few years now.
25:00And in that, there is a vulnerability forum where, you know, officers from across the various different disciplines
25:07come together every month, more so if required.
25:10And I think it's been really, really an incredible piece of work and it's been working really well.
25:14So, there are pockets of really good practice that we know how to do it.
25:19It just needs to then be replicated across Kent.
25:21I suppose, in this case, I would like to ask before we both, we all end the programme,
25:26what would you like to see in a positive male role model?
25:30Because this violence starts and ends with men and it's about kind of finding a pathway to reducing this violence.
25:39What do you think a positive male role model would look like for our boys here in Kent?
25:44It's very simple.
25:48Men can be strong and, in fact, they should be strong, but they must be respectful.
25:54And to be disrespectful is weak.
25:57And Lauren, what would you like to see men and boys in Gravesham inspired by?
26:04Wow, there's so many fantastic people and men that I've come into contact with.
26:10It's our scout leaders.
26:12It's our men that run the defence arts classes.
26:19It's the men that run the boxing clubs.
26:21It is the men that are our teachers, that are our nurses.
26:24They have a compassion and aren't afraid to show vulnerability.
26:31And I think we all need to show vulnerability at some point.
26:34But also, that's our strength.
26:37I think that's the message we can all agree with and end the programme on.
26:40Thank you both for joining me on the Kent Politics Show.
26:42We'll be back next week with more local election coverage.