A political face-off has erupted between the Centre and DMK over the three-language policy in the National Education Policy.
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00:00Very plain I heard that the minister, in his reply in parliament today, has called the Tamil Nadu government and the people of Tamil Nadu uncivilized.
00:09They are dishonest, my dear friends, they are dishonest. They are not committed to Tamil Nadu students.
00:15Language war now in parliament.
00:19Their only job is to raise language pressure. They are doing politics.
00:23DMK vs BJP on the three-language policy.
00:28We are a tomato. We are a tomato. We are a tomato.
00:33DMK cries Hindi imposition.
00:36We are the ruin in the future of Tamil Nadu students.
00:39BJP alleges Hindi only an option.
00:43Parliament resounds in protest.
00:46Down, down, Dharmendra Pradhan.
00:52The great linguistic divide.
00:55Top focus on To The Point this evening.
01:02And that divide continues to divide the parliament. That's our top focus.
01:06The first flashpoint in the reconvened budget session is the language war.
01:11Many are to follow. All of that coming up. First up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
01:16Court reserves order on Ranya Rao's bail plea on March 14th.
01:22Ranya sought bail, claiming lapses in arrest.
01:25DRI opposes, says she might influence witnesses.
01:29Meanwhile, complaint filed with ED to probe smuggling case.
01:35Education policy face-off escalates.
01:38Pradhan fact-checks Tamil Nadu government releases 2024 Tamil Nadu government letter.
01:44After Nirmala slammed DMK's Periyar support, BJP backs anti-Periyar Tamil Nadu leader.
01:56Tamil Nadu's MDMK MP Vaikom mocks Northern states, says North Indian states 40 years behind Tamil Nadu.
02:03MOS Sukanta hits out, says there shouldn't be aversion to learn new languages.
02:13Mega India Today exclusive, India Today inside Jagan's 500 crore hill palace.
02:18From gold accents to Italian marbling.
02:21A project mired in alleged violations of environmental norms.
02:27Italian marble tile, 10 acres of land that had been set for this Rishikonda Palace.
02:36Rishikonda Palace, Rishikonda, imported granite, 200 chandeliers, posse, rupees 15 lakhs each.
02:43Cozy interiors designed at a cost of rupees 33 crores.
02:52Yogi hints at more Sambhal excavations after abandoned temple.
02:56Yogi vows more relics.
02:58Stringent UP holy guidelines in Sambhal.
03:0010 mosques in holy procession route to be covered.
03:07And BJP sweeps Haryana municipal elections.
03:11Breaches Congress's Rohtak stronghold.
03:14BJP's mayoral candidates win 9 out of 10 municipal cooperation.
03:23Prime Minister Modi departs from Port Louis in Mauritius.
03:27He was conferred with highest honour in the nation.
03:30He also performed an aarti at the Ganga Talao in Port Louis.
03:34And mixed Ganga Jam from Mahakumbh into the water.
03:45For two days in a row the parliament has been held ransom to a language war.
03:49Which has been erupting a direct face-off between the DMK and the BJP.
03:55Even the education minister.
03:57The political face-off between the centre and the DMK over the language policy.
04:01Especially the three language policy.
04:03In the new national education policy refuses to die down.
04:08Backing the three language policy under NEP.
04:11Union education minister Dharmendra Pradhan accused DMK.
04:14Of taking a U-turn on the policy.
04:16He said that Tamil Nadu government gave consent to the language policy on March 15th.
04:21And is now taking a U-turn.
04:23DMK meanwhile continues its criticism of the language policy.
04:26They say that Tamil Nadu government gave consent to the recommendations by the state government.
04:31Not what the central government had demanded.
04:53The other side our finance minister is lashing out and saying.
05:07It's a language which not even helps to get arms for the beggars.
05:12What is their problem Tamil is an ancient language.
05:15Which has been proved time and again.
05:17Even now our leader chief minister MK Stalin.
05:21Has proved that iron age language is Tamil.
05:25We have also proved it and we have also released it.
05:28It's not that we need to prove it's all existing.
05:32But still it has been proved and time and again.
05:34These people lashing out on the Tamil language.
05:36And Tamil Nadu is a serious political move by the union government.
05:42Meanwhile the finance minister also jumped into the education row.
05:48Or the face off which is brewing in the parliament.
05:51Between the DMK and the centre over the three language policy.
05:54This time Nirmala Sitharaman accused the DMK of hypocrisy.
05:58She said that the elderly person they worship.
06:01Basically hinting to Periyar.
06:03Used to describe Tamil as a barbaric language.
06:07Listen in to Nirmala Sitharaman.
06:08Because then it came with a massive backlash from the DMK.
06:11Listen in.
06:13Sir for just saying your protests are uncivil.
06:17They made the education minister to withdraw his statement.
06:22When a man repeatedly says Tamil is a barbaric language.
06:29Look at the hypocrisy.
06:33They keep his photo in every room.
06:35I am sure even in the parliament office of that party.
06:38His photo is there.
06:40They garland him and they worship him.
06:42And they say he is the icon of the Davidian movement.
06:45But he said Tamil is a barbaric language.
06:48So sir I am saying.
06:52Unbelievable that this person is worshipped.
06:58But our poor Dharmendra Pradhan just said don't do uncivil protest.
07:03He is being accused.
07:04And if their love for Tamil is so much.
07:07How can they worship somebody who said Tamil is a barbaric language.
07:11All the schemes which are given to Tamil Nadu.
07:14Are some charity.
07:16Act of charity.
07:18Whereas the truth is.
07:20Whatever funds which have to be allocated to us.
07:23Have not been allocated as yet.
07:25And moreover whatever is being allocated according to her.
07:30I think any union government has to do it for the states.
07:34And moreover it is from the funds.
07:36The taxes which the Tamil Nadu government pays.
08:04It is something which was raised by Rahul Gandhi on day one.
08:07When the parliament session reconvened for the budget session.
08:10US trade tariffs is something that the opposition wants to pick up.
08:13And of all one of the most contentious issues.
08:17That will face the parliament in this budget session.
08:20Is the Waqf amendment bill.
08:22The government will be bringing it to the fore.
08:25Moreover immigration and foreigners bill 2025.
08:28At the back of all of this.
08:30The questions that we pose for our face off this evening.
08:33Number one Hindi imposition.
08:34Real fear or fear mongering.
08:36What is going on in the parliament.
08:38So that is the first question that we are going to ask.
08:40Is the centre covertly pushing Hindi through any peace free language policy.
08:44South parties creating imaginary linguistic hysteria for political gain.
08:51This is something which the BJP has constantly targeted the DMK of.
08:58Why is the centre withholding education funds to Tamil Nadu.
09:01The DMK has spoken in parliament.
09:03Funds to the tune of 5000 crores are being held right now.
09:07Until and unless the Tamil Nadu government in entirety.
09:12Practices what the NEP says and implements the three language policy.
09:18The other thing which is asked right now by the centre is.
09:21Why is the DMK denying Hindi as an option in Tamil Nadu.
09:25Language war clearly the first showdown in the reconvened budget session.
09:29Let us cut across to our panellists.
09:31For both of them we are going to have a two minute timer.
09:33They will have that time to speak.
09:35And then it will transfer to their opponent.
09:38A. Saravanan spokesperson DMK with us.
09:40Anil K. Antony national spokesperson BJP.
09:43A. Saravanan the DMK is fighting a pitched battle in parliament.
09:49When it comes down to the national education policy.
09:52Primarily the three language policy.
09:54All other southern states A. Saravanan have implemented the three language policy.
09:59It's an option they might oppose it.
10:01But in spirit they have implemented it.
10:03Why isn't the DMK doing the same?
10:05Because the centre says you promised to do it on the 15th of March.
10:08And now you have taken a U-turn.
10:10Historically the state of Tamil Nadu has been opposing this Hindi imposition.
10:16Via the third language formula from 1937.
10:191937 we opposed it.
10:211940 they shut down the third language.
10:23Compulsory third language in 1965.
10:25Again we opposed the language policies.
10:28In 1968 the resolution was passed in the Tamil Nadu state assembly.
10:32Stating that Tamil Nadu will follow only the two language formula.
10:36So it has got a legal sanctity in the form of a resolution in the Tamil Nadu state assembly.
10:40And from 1968 we have been well served with this two language formula.
10:45If Tamil Nadu has been growing educationally, economically, socially.
10:49That is because this model is a successful model.
10:52We have been able to deliver education to everybody.
10:55If you look at the gross enrollment ratio of the state of Tamil Nadu.
10:58It is at 47%.
11:00Actually twice.
11:01Twice that of the national average.
11:03So why should we follow something which is not given results?
11:06This is one aspect.
11:08The other aspect is there are states.
11:10The North Indian states.
11:12Where Hindi is the native language.
11:14They are not even studying two languages.
11:16They are only studying one language.
11:19So this is going to be one set of rules for the North Indian states.
11:23And one set of rules for the states which are performing well.
11:26That is the state of Tamil Nadu.
11:28They say we will implement these three languages.
11:31We are saying we don't want it.
11:33Because our results, our outcomes are spectacular.
11:38And if you look at the top colleges, top universities.
11:42Everything is in the state of Tamil Nadu.
11:44Why?
11:46We can attribute it to anybody.
11:48But we are saying we have been successful.
11:50Only because we are having the two language formula.
11:52Because we are not giving burden to the students.
11:55We are giving them that extra time.
11:57To study science, maths or any other technical subject.
12:01Which is going to help them.
12:02Which has helped them.
12:03That is the outcome the Tamil Nadu is speaking about.
12:06So we will not at any cost.
12:08We will not accept this three language formula.
12:10It is an indirect way of implementing Hindi.
12:13Imposing Hindi in the state of Tamil Nadu.
12:46Thank you for having me in the show.
12:50At the moment what is happening in Tamil Nadu.
12:52Is a very clear case of politicizing an issue which is non-trivial.
12:56Where the DMK is trying to create divisions.
12:59Which are imaginary.
13:01North-South divide.
13:02Hindi imposition.
13:03But you look at history.
13:05This is the third national education policy.
13:08That has been bought by various governments.
13:11In 1968 there was a policy.
13:13In 1986 there was a policy.
13:15Now in 2020 there is a policy.
13:17And this policy was there from 2020.
13:19It was already announced.
13:20This is not something which is out of the blue.
13:23The difference between the first two NEPs and now.
13:26All three said you need three languages.
13:29But the first two very explicitly said that the third has to be Hindi.
13:33But in this particular one.
13:35The Narendra Modi government has made it very inclusive.
13:38Where every state it is very clearly said.
13:40You can teach any two Indian languages.
13:43It need not be Hindi.
13:44Like you are talking about South India.
13:46Or DMK friends are talking South India Hindi imposition.
13:49You can teach two languages.
13:50You can teach Tamil.
13:52And along with Tamil you can teach Malayalam.
13:54You can teach Kannada.
13:55You can teach Telugu.
13:56You can teach Marathi.
13:57Gujarati.
13:58You can teach whatever you want.
13:59But somehow because of politics.
14:01Where an assembly election is coming next year.
14:03And because of that you are creating imaginary fear among people.
14:07By saying that there is an imposition.
14:09There is no imposition.
14:10And this policy came in 2020.
14:13Last year itself.
14:14The central government had in 2022 launched the PM Sri program also.
14:20And the Tamil Nadu government themselves had told the Ministry of Education.
14:25That they would like to be a part of it.
14:27They would sign an MOU.
14:28Now suddenly after.
14:30Especially after the recent election results in Haryana.
14:32Maharashtra.
14:33In Delhi.
14:34Where the Bharatiya Janata Party is getting absolute trust of the people.
14:38The DMK is very jittery.
14:40And you are creating hypothetical scenarios.
14:42Which don't exist.
14:43There is no imposition.
14:44There is no Hindi imposition.
14:46This is an option.
14:48This is a.
14:49Okay.
14:50Alright.
14:51Your time is up.
14:52I want to bring back A. Saravanan.
14:53Three questions A. Saravanan.
14:54Number one.
14:55There is no imposition.
14:56It is an option.
14:57If you choose the second language can be Punjabi.
14:59For all the government cares.
15:01Because there is no imposition of Hindi.
15:03Number two.
15:04You on the 15th March.
15:06Which has been alleged by the education minister.
15:08Practically consented to the three language policy.
15:11Only to make a U-turn.
15:13Number three.
15:14The allegation is.
15:15All of this is being done.
15:16Primarily to whip up regional rhetoric.
15:19Before elections.
15:20Because you feel that you are losing ground.
15:23Yeah.
15:24I will revert all these Preeti.
15:26See when we speak about this three language formula.
15:28That it is not about Hindi.
15:30That is hypocrisy.
15:31That is duplicity of the BJP.
15:32They want to sneak in Hindi.
15:33This is akin to a restaurant.
15:35Which will advertise.
15:37We have 300 items in the menu.
15:39But when you go and ask them.
15:40Okay.
15:41Give me chicken curry.
15:43They say no sir.
15:44We don't have chicken curry.
15:45We only have idli sambar.
15:47No problem.
15:48You give us mutton dosa.
15:50No you don't have mutton dosa.
15:52We will give you idli sambar.
15:53Sir okay.
15:54Please give me fish curry and rice.
15:55Sorry sir.
15:56We don't have that.
15:57We have idli sambar.
15:58This is what will happen with this three language formula.
16:01Who is going to appoint teachers for 20?
16:03In a class hypothetically.
16:04Let's say in a class of 40.
16:0620 students want to study 20 different languages.
16:08Is every school going to appoint 20 different teachers?
16:10What is the resource?
16:12Will the union government spare the resources?
16:14Do we have that kind of energy and resources?
16:16So it is a sham.
16:18And we will prove people of Tamil Nadu and the people of this country are aware of this.
16:22When Mr. Dharmendra Pradhan spoke about that Tamil Nadu government has agreed.
16:26I think his English skills need some more polishing.
16:30They said we are keen to sign.
16:32Of course yes.
16:33After that what happens?
16:35We were keen to sign based on the recommendations of the committee.
16:39And they send us the MOU.
16:41In the MOU they say PMC schools will have NEP and three language formula consequentially.
16:46We say we are not acceptable.
16:48This three language formula is not acceptable to us.
16:50NEP is not acceptable to us.
16:52Therefore we delete those two classes and send it back.
16:56And Mr. Dharmendra Pradhan writes to us saying
16:58I am shocked to see that you have taken away NEP and three language formula.
17:02We said we will not be able to accept that.
17:04So where is the DMK backtracking here?
17:07This is our policy.
17:08In 2020 when they introduced NEP we were against it.
17:11In 2021 elections we canvassed.
17:14We sought votes that we will not allow NEP.
17:17People of Tamil Nadu gave us a resounding victory.
17:19Are we not answerable to the people of Tamil Nadu?
17:21So these are the important things.
17:24And when we speak of the 2022 elections we are very very sure we will win this election.
17:28I will come back to you.
17:29Mr. Saravanan I will come back to you.
17:30I want to go back to Mr. Anil K. Antony.
17:32Anil K. Antony you say that it was already there earlier on.
17:35But there have been marked differences.
17:37And I will tell you what.
17:38And our viewers must know that.
17:39Number one.
17:40Earlier on English was always the A official language.
17:44It was always a part of the native language when it came down to the education policy.
17:48It was one of the languages that could be picked as a native language.
17:52What the new NEP has done Anil K. Antony is removed English and made it a foreign language.
17:56So therefore now you know the children when they look at subjects.
18:00They will have to study English as a foreign language.
18:02And they need to pick an extra language when it comes down to the native language.
18:06So you have made that distinction.
18:08Number two.
18:09Your new NEP actually says that in states where Hindi is not the main language.
18:13Hindi should be pushed as an optional language that they should study.
18:18Of course it also says in states where Hindi is the main language.
18:21Then another language.
18:22It could be Telugu.
18:23It could be Tamil.
18:24It could be Malayalam.
18:25Needs to be pushed so that you know there is you know the students in the north learn
18:32a regional language as well.
18:34And that's the premise Anil K. Antony that the DMK says that it's a backdoor entry.
18:39You couldn't do it straightforward.
18:41So you're now trying to find another way of pushing Hindi as a possible link language
18:47which the DMK is staunchly opposing.
18:51See in Tamil Nadu with the DMK, there is an unnecessary stress in this word Hindi.
18:56I don't know how many of you have read the National Education Policy.
19:00It is a 65-page document.
19:02And in the 65-page document, the word Hindi is used once.
19:05While words like Malayalam, words like Telugu, words like Tamil, it's all used many, many
19:10more times.
19:11And again, like you rightly said, there is a difference between the previous education
19:15policies and this education policy.
19:17Here English is like if you want to learn English, like it is as a foreign language.
19:22But that is an option.
19:24But then when it comes to the regional languages, there is no government in India's history
19:28that has pushed Indian languages as much as Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the NDA
19:33government.
19:34Where in the last few years, there have been so many historic steps that was taken.
19:38So in this particular case also, like every student who wants to learn, you actually have
19:43an option to learn any of the two Indian languages.
19:46And that is up to them.
19:47And I don't know why Tamil Nadu is so adamant that they will not have a third language,
19:52where it doesn't say that it has to be Hindi.
19:54It can be any language.
19:56It can be you talk about north-south divide.
19:58It can be any southern language.
19:59It can be Malayalam, Kannada, Telugu.
20:01So what is the problem?
20:02And then you look at Tamil Nadu's existing situation.
20:05So my esteemed panelist was saying that they were suddenly reluctant to sign PF in the
20:11PMCMOU because they have to implement three-language formulas and NDP.
20:16But in Tamil Nadu at this moment, there are so many schools that are functioning, that
20:19is of other syllabuses, ICSE syllabus, CBSE syllabus.
20:23There are other international syllabuses.
20:25And they all teach three languages and even more than three languages.
20:28And that is already existing.
20:30And there are people who are relatives of many ministers, including chief ministers
20:34who are running these schools.
20:36So essentially the message DMK is giving in Tamil Nadu is that it is okay for affluent
20:40people to study any language they want.
20:43But poor students who are from lower economic communities or mainly in state schools, they
20:49are not allowed to learn three languages.
20:52That is just unfair.
21:07even invest in the Tamil language.
21:09The situation where the language is concerned is not being pushed, you know, very well by
21:14your own state government.
21:15So it's a rhetoric that you're whipping.
21:17It's a hysteria that you're whipping to push regionalism in a state headed for election.
21:22Number two, which what the finance minister said today, Nirmala Sitharaman yesterday,
21:26where she went on and said that you are worshippers of a person who used to call Tamil a language
21:35of barbarians, hinting at Periyar.
21:38Yeah.
21:39Preeti, Tanday Periyar is one of the iconic figures.
21:42If Tamil Nadu has progressed so well, that is because we followed all his rational policies
21:47and Madam Nirmala Sitharaman's ascendancy to political stardom can be directly attributable
21:53to our excellent English skills, their excellent communication skills in English and affluent
21:57English.
21:58And who made it possible?
21:59It is the DMK.
22:00It is Tanday Periyar who fought against Hindi imposition.
22:03We ensured, 1963, we ensured by the enactment of the Official Languages Act that English
22:10and Tamil, English and Hindi remain as linked languages.
22:14And Madam Nirmala Sitharaman, who is from the state of Tamil Nadu, has benefited immensely.
22:18She is very fluent in English.
22:20That is directly attributable to the DMK and the Hindi imposition agitations and the stand
22:26we took.
22:27So she has to thank them for where she is.
22:29This is one aspect.
22:30The other thing is, when we speak, when the BJP, does the BJP have any moral authority
22:35to speak about developing Tamil?
22:39What is the kind of money?
22:41Today our Chief Minister has made a wonderful charge.
22:45He said, even if you spend 2000 crores to promote Sanskrit, it cannot be revived.
22:50It is a dead language.
22:51Why do you spend so much of money on that?
22:53How much money you are spending on Tamil?
22:55And what moral right you have got to speak about that?
22:57When you are not spending money, when you are not spending our money there?
23:01Okay, you will get, I am going to go to Anil K. Antony.
23:04Anil, Antony, you will also get 15 more seconds other than your one minute like your, you
23:10know, previous panelists.
23:11Anil K. Antony, are you somewhere down the line also treading on very thin line where
23:16you bring up Periyar, the ideology of Tamil Nadu is based on Periyarism and you can see
23:21that across party lines, number one.
23:23Number two, there was a point which has been made, you know, by the education minister
23:28saying that the state of Tamil Nadu is not really investing in Tamil.
23:32You know, even if it is correct, shouldn't it also be the responsibility of the center
23:36to push and propagate regional languages, be it Tamil, Telugu or any other language?
23:42Isn't it the responsibility of the center as well to do the same?
23:45Thank you for the question.
23:47Thank you for the question.
23:50The central government, like I already mentioned before, no government in Indian history, no
23:54government in Indian history has promoted regional languages and Indian languages as
23:58much as the NDA government and Narendra Modi ji led government.
24:02My esteemed panelist was commenting on our finance minister Nirmala Sitharamanji's proficiency
24:07in English and Tamil and one of the reasons for her stature.
24:11But she can, let me assure you, she can speak multiple South Indian languages including
24:16Kannada and Telugu, etc., very fluently also.
24:19And just like that, the NDA government wants to ensure that other students across India
24:25get the same number of opportunities and this is what we are trying to do in Tamil Nadu also.
24:30You look at, again, you talk about Periyar and the comments that were made today.
24:36So, Bharatiya Janata Party is very clearly exposing the hypocrisy of the DMK.
24:41This is not about Tamil.
24:43This is not about respect to Tamil.
24:45This is about just bringing unnecessary divisions that don't exist.
24:49In the last 10 years itself, like our prime minister, like he was the first person to
24:56ensure that data sets are created in AI so that good quality content is available in
25:01all regional languages.
25:03He's the first prime minister who ensured.
25:06Alright, okay.
25:07I appreciate both of you for joining us.
25:09I'm sure the debate's going to continue in days to come.
25:11It's already peaking in parliament.
25:13Appreciate both of you for joining us.
25:14We're going to keep an eye on what's going on in parliament and outside.
25:53Congress defeated in Huda Bastion of Rohtak.
26:05Congress fails first poll test after assembly loss.
26:16Decimation reflects state of Haryana Congress.
26:25Just about 6 months ago, viewers, there was a sense of jubilation where the Haryana Congress
26:31unit was concerned.
26:32There was a sense that Haryana could have been won by the Congress.
26:37All of that blew away with the loss which came in October last year.
26:43Having said that, this was a point that the Haryana Congress could have proven at least
26:49by winning some of the mayoral poll seats.
26:52But they have failed to do so even in their strongest bastions.
26:56So the question is, of course, is Haryana Congress now in self-detonation?
27:01There are many, many signs suggesting the same.
27:04Number one, there is an acute leadership vacuum and factionalism which continues ever since
27:11the assembly elections in Haryana.
27:13Number two, the Congress is yet to name a CLP leader due to factionalism.
27:18There is no legislative, Congress legislative party leader or the leader of opposition
27:25where the Congress is concerned, even six months after the results.
27:30There is an inability now to mount a unified challenge against the BJP,
27:35which clearly reflected in the assembly elections in October.
27:39And the same thing happened this time around.
27:42There was complete ineffective campaign and a zero lack of local focus by the Congress.
27:49The BJP deployed its big guns, the Congress in fighting continued.
27:53Little time for newly appointed Haryana in charge, BK Prasad, to make any difference at all.
28:00Because he was only made in charge of the Congress just about a month ago.
28:04Too short a time to actually put your house in order or effect any change.
28:08Senior Haryana leadership's lackluster approach is another big example.
28:13One of the main reasons in it, viewers, is the fact that the top brass of the Congress
28:20refused to take any, any action where it came down to fixing responsibilities.
28:26Because the three main poles of leadership when it comes down to Haryana,
28:31be it Bhupinder Hidda, Kumari Shailja, Randeep Surjewala,
28:35these three camps continued to stay divided as they were during the assembly elections.
28:40So the questions that we ask at the back of the latest poll debacle for the Congress is,
28:46the Congress Haryana now at the brink of annihilation.
28:50Why we say that is because the carders completely dejected what they thought was going to be a huge assembly win.
28:57They could not even get a single mayoral seat when it came down to local body elections this time.
29:03The party facing the result of not fixing assembly poll debacle accountability.
29:09Six months after the assembly results, the high command is yet to fix responsibility on what really went wrong.
29:17How is it that they snatched defeat to what at least the local leadership had said was the jaws of victory?
29:24Number three, Congress Haryana desperate for a complete overhaul and it can clearly be seen
29:30even after all these months because of the infighting, there is no CLP leader, leader of opposition.
29:36The Congress hasn't been able to appoint one.
29:39Has no action by high command demoralized party carder.
29:44There was a sense that the Congress high command is going to come down heavy, heads will roll,
29:49even if they are some of the top leaders when it comes down to Haryana.
29:54But the high command has really done absolutely nothing.
29:58It's remained quiet, continued to let things go the way they were where Haryana was concerned
30:04and the result is what they see right now where the local body elections are concerned.
30:09We take all these questions to our panelists this evening.
30:11Joining me, Rohan Gupta, National Spokesperson, BJP.
30:14Advocate, Arshdeep Khadiyal, National Spokesperson, Congress.
30:17Ravindra Singh Sheron, Senior Journalist.
30:19I want to go to Mr. Khadiyal first.
30:21Mr. Khadiyal, I would reckon how shameful is this?
30:25And why I say shameful?
30:26Because six months down the line, there was a sense between where the Congress unit was concerned in Haryana
30:31that you were going to win these assembly elections.
30:33None of that's really happened.
30:35Leave alone assembly elections, you were not even able to win your own stronghold seats
30:40when it's come down to Haryana for even local body elections, Arshdeep Khadiyal.
30:45See, you should also ask question, how shameful it is to undermine the democracy?
30:50How shameful it is to undermine the constitution?
30:52How shameful it is to undermine the federal structure of India?
30:55A pitch that has been very commonly seen, very commonly observed.
30:59A narrative of the Bharatiya Janata Party that has been witnessed.
31:02The double-engined Sarkar, the triple-engined Sarkar.
31:05What is this narrative? What is this system?
31:07Basically saying through direct and indirect remarks
31:12that if the government is the same as that of the center,
31:15work will be done, development will be done, funds will be given.
31:20And if it is not the same as the government in center,
31:23not the same as the government in state,
31:25there would be no work done, there would be no development,
31:28there would be funds stopped, direct, indirect remarks and also through actions.
31:31In Karnataka, the Congress Party formed government,
31:3461 central sponsored schemes have been stalled.
31:38The funds have still not been given.
31:40Another example is of Punjab.
31:42The RDF funds have been stopped, the NHM funds have been stopped,
31:46the Sarsiksha Abhiyan funds have been stopped.
31:49Twice the taboo was rejected consecutively.
31:51No World Cup match was given to Punjab.
31:54And multiple cases registered against the leaders in order to stall the work.
31:59There is red tapism.
32:00There are attempts that are made in order to stall the governance,
32:03in order to stall the government, one way or the other.
32:06You know, one way or the other,
32:08having interference in the works of the government.
32:10So, governors not being supportive, bills being stalled.
32:14This is one thing that the Bharatiya Janata Party has been doing,
32:17which is a threat to our democracy.
32:19And we know it.
32:20That the means do not justify...
32:23Okay, one second.
32:24Mr. Khadiyal, before I go to...
32:26Allow me to ask you a rebuttal.
32:28You're actually blaming the BJP for winning an election?
32:32I'm not understanding.
32:33What's the point that you're trying to make?
32:35Well, no.
32:36The fact of the matter is that when you win an election,
32:41by undermining democracy, by undermining the constitution,
32:44it's not really a way...
32:45Okay, let me ask you this question again.
32:47No, no.
32:48Maybe I'm not being clear with my question.
32:50In what way was democracy or federalism undermined in these local body polls, sir?
32:59It was undermined when the narrative of...
33:02Allow me to answer.
33:04I've heard your question.
33:05Allow me to answer.
33:06The Bharatiya Janata Party's leaders have on record
33:09made statements in multiple elections
33:11that the funds would be stopped if the government,
33:14if the BJP government is not re-elected.
33:17And this is for the starters.
33:20If I were to be around more time,
33:22I'll give you 10 statements,
33:24which are basically no less than threats to the voters,
33:27to the electorate,
33:28that if you do not vote for us,
33:30if you do not form our government,
33:32our party is not voted to power,
33:34you will suffer.
33:35Your development will suffer.
33:36Your governance will suffer.
33:37Your state will suffer.
33:38Your economy will suffer.
33:39Your future will suffer.
33:40And that is something that we have seen.
33:41I've given you an example of two states.
33:43I've given you multiple examples.
33:44So, Arshdeep Khadiyar, you know, I'll tell you what.
33:46Many would feel that's the problem.
33:48Allow me to open up the debate.
33:49Many would feel that's exactly the problem of the Congress
33:52because the failure of the Congress is everybody else's fault
33:55but the Congress Party's fault.
33:57And that's exactly what you've stated.
33:59You're practically blaming the voters.
34:01Sir, allow me to talk and allow me to open up the debate
34:04and don't embarrass me by putting down your fader.
34:06I don't want to do it.
34:07I've given you enough opportunity.
34:08Allow me to open up the debate.
34:10Allow me to open up the debate.
34:12Don't pose questions while you open up the debate
34:14and then don't expect me to not answer.
34:16Sir, I'll come back to you.
34:17I'll circle back to you.
34:18I'll tell you what.
34:19Hopefully, the Congress will save the aggressiveness for future elections,
34:23not on TV but on the field
34:25because you cannot be blaming the people
34:27for not being able to convince the people of the state of Haryana
34:30that you could do a better job than the BJP.
34:33You're practically saying that the BJP has won this election
34:36on the promise of a double or a triple engine
34:38because somewhere down the line,
34:40then the Congress should stop fighting elections altogether
34:43because this is going to happen.
34:44I just want to open.
34:46Whether it's justified or not justified,
34:48it is in the domain of politics.
34:50It is not illegal.
34:52It is not unconstitutional
34:54that the BJP goes to the people and says,
34:56we'll give you a triple engine, sir.
34:58It's for you to break that myth.
35:01It is for you to make the voters of Haryana understand
35:05you could do better.
35:06But no, you did not do that,
35:08and there is zero acceptance of that.
35:10I just want to cut across to the BJP spokesperson,
35:12Rohan Gupta, national spokesperson.
35:15Let me take that question that you've posed to Rohan Gupta,
35:17Arshdeep Khadiyal,
35:18and I'd really appreciate if you'd also give equal time to your opponent.
35:24Rohan Gupta, the question that Arshdeep Khadiyal has raised is
35:28that you have resorted to undemocratic ways
35:31to undermine democracy in Haryana,
35:33and that is why you see yourself where you are,
35:35which is a practical sweep of Haryana
35:37when it came down to local body elections.
35:40I think my friend has forgotten
35:42that he's attending the debate
35:44where Congress Party has lost the state miserably
35:46just after four months of assembly elections
35:49where they got 39.09% votes.
35:52And you are absolutely right.
35:54The way these approaches today in the debate,
35:56the same approaches of high command towards any state debate,
35:59they are not ready to learn.
36:01They are taking decisions which are totally against the state.
36:04They are making blunders.
36:05Preeti, I'm telling you with great responsibility
36:08that if Congress could not win Haryana
36:10before four, five months,
36:12they should stop everything.
36:14Because the way atmosphere was created
36:17and they lose Haryana,
36:18after that they are also not ready to understand.
36:20You are losing, you are not appointing
36:22your leader of opposition for four months.
36:24What do we expect from people?
36:26The people, 39.9% people who voted for you,
36:29they are also feeling that we have wasted our vote.
36:31And still you are not ready to understand.
36:33In Haryana Congress,
36:34the structure has not been declared for the last 10 years.
36:37There are no state bodies,
36:38there are no district bodies.
36:39How do we expect people to give you votes?
36:41And still you are not ready to understand.
36:43See your BJP on the other side.
36:45Whether it is elections or governments
36:47or delivering on promises,
36:48in four months we have delivered what we have said.
36:50So Preeti, upon people,
36:52you cannot question the logic of people every time.
36:54Question people's intelligence.
36:56You are saying democracy.
36:57This is democracy.
36:58You are losing elections after elections.
37:00What more do you want?
37:01And still you are not ready to understand.
37:03Every democracy needs a strong opposition.
37:06But I am sorry to say,
37:08you are taking Haryana Congress towards Delhi Congress.
37:10You are not ready to understand.
37:12As an opposition party,
37:13I am more than happy.
37:14But I am really,
37:15I feel sorry that even today,
37:17your high command or your local people,
37:19they are not understanding pulse of people,
37:21what people expect from you as an opposition party,
37:24even you are not able to deliver today.
37:25And that's why you are going to Delhi
37:27which is zero.
37:28Okay.
37:29I am going to come back to the both of you.
37:30Allow me to bring in Ravindra Singh Chiron.
37:32He is a senior journalist.
37:33He knows Haryana better than most do.
37:35Mr. Ravindra,
37:36what has happened this time?
37:38Because it seemed that Congress
37:40will gain some lost ground.
37:42At least,
37:43the so-called potholes of Congress,
37:46they will keep their potholes there.
37:48Whether it is Rohtak or Julana,
37:51there has been a clean sweep of BJP.
37:54Yes.
37:55Hello, Preeti.
37:56Look,
37:57the situation that has become for the Congress party,
38:00you have said the right things in your initial speech.
38:03And I feel that
38:04an agenda has been set for this entire debate.
38:08The Congress party is such a divided house,
38:11which was expected that
38:12after the Vidhan Sabha election,
38:13some situations will be fine.
38:15But this is becoming a deeper division.
38:18Today's situation is that
38:19division is also seen as a state unit
38:21versus national unit.
38:23Today,
38:24the national unit has the responsibility
38:27to announce
38:28who will be the chairman of this CLP.
38:31Till date,
38:32there are 37.
38:33Look,
38:34it is not a small number.
38:35There are 37 MPs
38:36and there is no leader of the 37 MPs.
38:38You go to the house,
38:39you don't have a leader.
38:41The government,
38:42so many problems have come to the people here.
38:45In the last four months,
38:46Rohanji's government has been formed.
38:47But to surround the government,
38:49there is no opposition leader.
38:51No leader is asking questions
38:53about what the government is doing.
38:55No leader is saying
38:57what the government is doing
38:59on the issue of giving pensions to women.
39:02The situation of the Congress party
39:04has become such that
39:05by fighting among themselves,
39:06they have become so weak
39:07that the cadre of the Congress party,
39:09which has given 39% votes for a long time,
39:12is permanently attached to the Congress party.
39:14Now,
39:15they are also feeling dejected somewhere.
39:17And they also feel
39:18that the Congress party
39:20is in so much trouble
39:21that perhaps
39:22there is no point in standing with it.
39:24Look at all the seats in the Parliament.
39:26No one knows what the Congress party
39:28has done after the defeat of the election.
39:31No one knows the committee
39:32that was formed for the review.
39:34And,
39:35Preeti, you will be surprised,
39:37two dozen election petitions
39:38have been filed in this election.
39:40But the Congress party
39:41has not given this information
39:43in any press conference
39:44that which people have filed petitions,
39:47what ground has it taken.
39:49If there will be so many problems,
39:51then you tell me,
39:52how will the public trust?
39:53Whether the government does a good job
39:55or does a bad job,
39:56there is no one to surround it.
39:58The government that had promised,
40:00will the farmers be happy today
40:02in the whole of Haryana?
40:03No one is going to raise a question.
40:05Even today,
40:06farmers are wandering for crops.
40:07Even today,
40:08the crops of the farmers
40:09remain in the markets.
40:10But no one is going to raise a question.
40:12The people of the Congress party
40:14are trying to humiliate each other.
40:16And Mr. Khadiyal
40:17may not be aware of this.
40:18Let me correct his information.
40:20What he is saying is that
40:21we have tried.
40:22The biggest leader of the Congress party,
40:24Bhupendra Hooda,
40:25said that
40:26in small elections,
40:27I do not go to promote.
40:29Whereas the Chief Minister of BJP
40:31and the entire cabinet,
40:32they promoted the whole thing.
40:34They also took the municipal corporation election
40:36seriously.
40:37And maybe this is the reason
40:39that people
40:40looked away from Congress
40:42and looked close to BJP.
40:44And one last thing,
40:45this election was originally
40:47for the urban areas.
40:48In urban areas,
40:49BJP is already a strong party.
40:51And where Congress was almost
40:53invisible,
40:54Congress' leadership was almost invisible,
40:56no one was seen
40:57promoting the election.
40:59In such a situation,
41:00BJP got almost
41:01an empty field.
41:02And on that empty field,
41:03they also
41:04tried very hard.
41:06And after that,
41:07this is the result
41:08that we have seen.
41:09Arshdeep Khadiyal,
41:10I will come back to you
41:11because those were the questions
41:12that what
41:13Ravinder ji has said.
41:14I had posed earlier as well.
41:15And we want to
41:16just get an understanding
41:17of what's going on.
41:18You know,
41:19you can be confrontational,
41:20you can be aggressive,
41:21but maybe you can also reflect
41:22on what's going on
41:23within the Congress party.
41:24And I'll give you a few examples,
41:26Mr. Khadiyal.
41:27Example number one,
41:28six months
41:29that the elections
41:31of Haryana Assembly
41:32have taken place,
41:34there are 37 MLAs,
41:35they don't know
41:36who is leading them.
41:37Why?
41:38Because the factionalism
41:39in your party
41:40is so intense
41:41that the high command
41:42really doesn't know
41:43who should be designated
41:45as the CLP leader.
41:47There is no one,
41:48absolutely no one
41:49to pick up,
41:50you know,
41:51on political issues
41:52and actually take on
41:54the incumbent government
41:55on undelivered promises
41:57because there's so much
41:58infighting going on
41:59within your own.
42:00Number two,
42:01I will just take you through
42:03some of the people
42:04who were fielded
42:05by the BJP
42:06to fight elections.
42:07Along with the Haryana
42:08Chief Minister,
42:09the Delhi Chief Minister,
42:11you had Rajasthan
42:13Chief Minister,
42:14you had all the
42:15senior leadership
42:16from these states
42:17being poured in
42:18for my oral polls.
42:19While people who aspire
42:21to be your CLP leader
42:23went ahead and said
42:24that they don't campaign
42:25for chota mota elections.
42:27Now,
42:28where is the action
42:29which was taken?
42:30Let me give you
42:31another question,
42:32Arshdeep Khadiyar.
42:33Taken accountability
42:34fixed of what went wrong
42:36during Haryana elections?
42:39Number one,
42:40thank you Preeti.
42:41Number one,
42:42it's Arshreet
42:43Number two,
42:44Apologies.
42:45Number two,
42:46I want to clarify
42:47one thing.
42:48Ends do not
42:49justify the means.
42:51That is
42:52the main headline
42:54that people need
42:55to understand
42:56of the BJP
42:57especially
42:58that you cannot
42:59murder the democracy,
43:00you cannot
43:01undermine the constitution
43:02in order to grab
43:03a win.
43:04Now,
43:05the means that I'm talking about
43:06that the BJP
43:07is accustomed to,
43:08this is a trailer
43:09what we saw
43:10in Haryana
43:11civic polls
43:12wherein
43:13the triple engine
43:14government,
43:15the narrative that
43:16if our government
43:17is formed,
43:18we'll work,
43:19development would be done,
43:20funds would be given
43:21and if it's not us,
43:22that would not be done.
43:23And this was a trailer,
43:24the movie was
43:25in the Chandigarh Mayor poll
43:26wherein the Supreme Court
43:27said murder of democracy
43:28took place
43:29where the presiding
43:30officer was defacing
43:31the ballots
43:32and then
43:33that act
43:34was caught
43:35on camera
43:36and then the Supreme Court
43:37reprimanded it.
43:38I'm running out of time
43:39but I understand
43:40Arshpreet,
43:41this is the line
43:42that you're taking,
43:43this is not about
43:44the Chandigarh Mayoral polls.
43:45I'll give you
43:46the figures.
43:47Today,
43:48in Haryana
43:49where the Congress
43:50wanted to win the states,
43:51even for local
43:52body elections,
43:53look at the number.
43:54People actually
43:55have more faith
43:56in an independent,
43:57more faith
43:58in an independent
43:59than the Congress
44:00and that should
44:01not even
44:02ring alarm bells,
44:03that should be
44:04immediate action
44:05by the Congress.
44:06But clearly,
44:07it's everybody else's fault
44:08but the Congress's fault
44:09as per you.
44:11Allow me to answer.
44:12Allow me to answer
44:13in 10 seconds.
44:1410 seconds sir,
44:15please answer.
44:16Perfectly alright.
44:17See,
44:18a very good example
44:19is of Karnataka.
44:20There's been
44:21a decline
44:22of 7,000 crores
44:23in the central
44:24sponsored schemes,
44:25the money that's
44:26been flowing in.
44:27In 21-22,
44:28it was 20,986 crores.
44:29In 23-24,
44:30it was 13,000 crores.
44:31So basically,
44:32the Congress
44:33should stop
44:34fighting any elections
44:35and only fight
44:36the general elections
44:37in the hope
44:38that they will
44:39come in the centre
44:40and then maybe
44:41they can start
44:42releasing funds
44:43to their own states.
44:44Maybe that should be
44:45what they should do.
44:46Allow me sir,
44:47I don't have the time
44:48to argue.
44:49I want to go in
44:5020 seconds.
44:51Rohan Gupta,
44:52you want to come in
44:53closing comments?
44:54Make your point.
44:55I think my friend
44:56has studied
44:57different syllabus
44:58and the paper is different.
44:59You are asking
45:00very straightforward questions
45:01and this kind of attitude
45:02is responsible
45:03of the current
45:04situation of Congress party.
45:05They are high command
45:06sitting in their darbaris.
45:07They don't understand
45:09the defeat
45:10of last 4 months.
45:11Before 4 months,
45:12had they performed better,
45:13they could have
45:14changed the narrative
45:15but no,
45:16they don't want to learn.
45:17As a BJP spokesperson,
45:18as a worker,
45:19I am very happy
45:20that my friend
45:21from Congress
45:22or the party,
45:23they are not ready
45:24to learn from their mistakes.
45:25They are not ready
45:26to play a role
45:27of opposition also
45:28and that's why
45:29people have
45:30more confidence
45:31in independence
45:32compared to Congress party.
45:33They are taking Congress
45:34to West Delhi.
45:35Ravinder ji,
45:36do you think
45:37that Congress
45:38has to dismantle
45:39the entire
45:40Haryana unit
45:41and build
45:42a new Congress unit?
45:43Preeti ji,
45:44people in Haryana
45:45are saying
45:46this everywhere
45:47that Congress
45:48has to be
45:49overhauled
45:50but who
45:51has the courage
45:52to overhaul
45:53Congress?
45:54Central leadership
45:55is not showing
45:56the courage.
45:57They are in
45:58this dilemma
45:59that whether
46:00they should
46:01make Huda
46:02the CLP leader
46:03or not.
46:04If they make
46:05him,
46:06what is the
46:07loss?
46:08If they don't
46:09make him,
46:10what will happen?
46:11It is their
46:12wish
46:13to make him
46:14the CLP leader
46:15or not.
46:16But because
46:17of that,
46:18Haryana is
46:19losing.
46:20Haryana
46:21does not have
46:22a leader.
46:23If there is
46:24no leader
46:25in any state,
46:26then who
46:27will raise
46:28the voice
46:29of the people?
46:30Who will
46:31surround the
46:32government?
46:33There is no
46:34person
46:35who can
46:36do that.
46:37So,
46:38the buck
46:39stops with
46:40the senior
46:41leadership
46:42of the
46:43Congress.
46:44No action
46:45was taken
46:46during the
46:47assembly,
46:48after the
46:49assembly elections
46:50to possibly
46:51fix accountability.
46:52Will any
46:53action be
46:54taken now?
46:55And if not
46:56then,
46:57then why
46:58now?
46:59Till then,
47:00the cadre
47:01of the
47:02Haryana
47:03Congress