American political scientist and geopolitical expert Ian Bremmer said on Friday that Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s meeting with US President Donald Trump was one of the most successful of any of the bilateral meetings the latter had.
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00:00The global order is changing at a faster pace than it has at any time in contemporary political history.
00:09And to try and make sense of this fast-changing new world, we're joined by one of the world's top risk gurus,
00:16Ian Bremmer joins us from Washington, D.C., president, founder of the Eurasia Group,
00:21and a man who really understands the ins and outs of what's going on in Washington at this moment.
00:27Mr. Bremmer, thank you for your time.
00:29I want to start by asking you about President Trump and India,
00:33because Prime Minister Modi and Trump had a bilateral meeting,
00:37lots of chatter around how successful that meeting was relative to the last times
00:42that President Biden and Modi met, and Modi met Trump.
00:46So first and foremost, your sense of where India figures in Washington's perspective and prism at this moment,
00:53given all that's happening in the world right now?
00:56Well, you and I have discussed this before, and before Trump became president,
01:01I was of the view that India was one of the very few countries in the world
01:05that was in a very strong geopolitical position, whether Trump or Kamala Harris won the presidency.
01:11I still hold that view.
01:13Modi's meeting with Trump has been one of the most successful of any of the bilateral meetings
01:20he's had with any countries around the world.
01:23Part of that is because the U.S.-China relationship is going to get worse.
01:28Trump intends to create a trading block with like-minded countries
01:33that will decouple core supply chains, resources, and advanced technologies
01:39away from China, containing China.
01:42China's not going to like that, but that makes India an important partner.
01:46Certainly, the United States wants a stronger defense relationship with India.
01:51They want to sell, of course, more American military componentry and hardware.
01:55They want a closer technology relationship with India,
01:58and they want India to be more aligned with American technology firms and standards.
02:03Also, you know that Prime Minister Modi has been willing to reduce tariffs
02:10to get more reciprocal with the United States.
02:12Trump has appreciated that.
02:14They've also been willing to take some illegal immigrants from the United States back into India.
02:19Trump has appreciated that.
02:21This isn't going to be easy.
02:23Every country, even friendly ones, are going to find that Trump is going to drive a hard bargain,
02:27especially when it comes to economics and trade.
02:30But I think that Modi's India is probably in as good a position as anyone else,
02:35certainly any major economy.
02:37The Saudis, the Emiratis, the Israelis, they have stronger relations with Trump.
02:41But of the big economies in the world, India's in the best position.
02:45It's interesting that you say it because a lot of the optics from an Indian perspective
02:48haven't been all that ideal.
02:50The fact that on the day that Prime Minister Modi was in Washington, D.C.,
02:54President Trump did that big press conference literally hours before he met him.
02:58He targeted India by name.
03:00And there was no state dinner, unlike the last time when he went to meet President Biden.
03:05And even repeatedly, he seems to be attacking India on the question of trade.
03:09These immigrants coming back, I'm sure you followed, because they've been shackled,
03:13their turban's taken off, it's become a big political issue back home.
03:16So looked at particularly from a political prism, the optics haven't been very good.
03:21So it's interesting that you're saying that the relationship is as good as can be
03:23because from an Indian opposition perspective, they're saying,
03:26just look at how badly India's being treated.
03:29I accept all of that, Rahul.
03:32And, of course, specifically the optics around the illegal detainees going back in shackles,
03:38which was also an issue for Colombia, some other countries.
03:41That's been figured out with transit through third countries.
03:45But you're right that Trump is not treating any countries around the world very easily right now.
03:52I mean, it's as good as can be doesn't mean as warm as you'd like.
03:57Trump, of course, is surrounded by loyalists in his cabinet.
04:01Everyone's telling him how brilliant he is, what a genius he is.
04:04No one's pushing back.
04:06He has the House. He has the Senate.
04:09Republicans in both are lining up and they're supporting all of his candidates.
04:14They're not voting against even if they're incapable.
04:17America's in a much stronger position.
04:19Trump's much more convinced he's right.
04:21So I agree with you, Rahul, that it has been a bumpier road for India than in the first Trump term.
04:28But compared to any other country, you look at Canada or Mexico, you look at the European Union,
04:35you look at, you know, certainly China or smaller countries like Panama and Denmark,
04:42which are really taking it in the chin right now.
04:45No one would argue that Trump and Modi are best friends.
04:50Trump sees Modi as a carrier of right wing nationalist populist sentiment that is part of a Trump wave
05:01that he sees, including leaders like Giorgio Maloney from Italy, like Viktor Orban from Hungary,
05:08like Javier Millet from Argentina, like Nayib Bukele from El Salvador.
05:14And, of course, in that regard, India is the largest, the most successful country,
05:19both in terms of economic growth and the popularity of its prime minister,
05:24that is aligned ideologically with Trump, that, you know, is in a sense a purveyor of Trumpism.
05:31And Modi certainly leaned into that when the two men met face to face.
05:36But this is a less transactional Trump.
05:40It's a more revolutionary Trump.
05:42It's a more predatory Trump because he's more confident, because he has fewer checks and balances.
05:49And also because he has Elon Musk around him that's capable of executing policy in an unprecedented way.
05:58There was no one like that in Trump's first term.
06:01So, again, I accept that from India's perspective, this doesn't look easy.
06:08What are you hearing about that bilateral trade agreement between Washington and Delhi?
06:13Talks are supposed to finish by fall.
06:15That's a very tight deadline given that they've gone through two terms negotiating the agreement.
06:19Nothing came off it.
06:21How do you think talks are likely to go?
06:23And he's spoken of retaliatory tariffs being implemented from the 1st of April.
06:27Is that just a negotiating tactic and a threat or do you think he'll push through?
06:31And if so, in what form and shape?
06:34I do think that when you're talking about friends, the retaliatory framework is meant to get them to the table with a better deal,
06:44with offering more, with lowering your own tariffs, with opening your own market,
06:51with buying more defense equipment from the U.S., with engaging in a more integrated fashion on technology.
07:00It's like what Trump is doing on Mexico and Canada.
07:03You'll remember he declared there were going to be 25 percent tariffs across the board.
07:08And then the day before, he had phone calls with the leaders of both countries.
07:11Then he kicked the can down the road.
07:13Now he's doing it again with the date of March 4th.
07:16Pretty much everyone expects that there will be a similar dynamic in play.
07:21So this is very different from what Trump did on China, where he announced 10 percent tariffs and there wasn't a phone call.
07:27There was an intention to impose 10 percent tariffs and he did.
07:30Now he announced another 10 by March 4th, and I expect that those additional 10 will be implemented.
07:37In other words, this is a negotiating pattern as opposed to a punitive set of measures that will be implemented no matter what.
07:46You know, you've mentioned twice over that Trump wants India to buy more weapons.
07:50But from an Indian lens, the Biden administration promised to sell G404 engines for the Indian light combat aircraft.
08:00And then the procurement and the delivery of those engines got delayed so much so that our Air Force now is publicly speaking.
08:07Very rarely does the air chief speak publicly saying that we don't have the kind of fighter planes we need because it's all got held up.
08:14So a lot of Indians, including me, would be very, very unsuspicious of America delivering on its promises on weapons.
08:21And we've seen that between Biden and Trump. If things can change so dramatically,
08:24how can a country like India trust the United States to come through on its promises on sophisticated technology and weapons?
08:30Yeah, I would say, you know, trust is fine, but verification is required.
08:36I mean, one of the biggest problems of Trump's policy orientation is that if you're going to go away from rule of law
08:43and you're going to implement law of the jungle where the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must,
08:49you've got to be able to implement that over a period of time.
08:53I mean, the reason why that policy has worked for China is because the Chinese Communist Party has been in power for generations,
09:00because Xi Jinping is a leader for life, because if she says something domestically, it goes through.
09:07None of those things are true in the United States.
09:10Every four years you get a new president.
09:12And what the Americans said one time around will change, whether it's the Iranian nuclear deal and JCPOA,
09:19or whether it's support for Ukraine, no matter what, for as long as it takes,
09:24whether it's the Paris climate accord, whether it's the World Health Organization.
09:29And so it's very challenging. I mean, if Trump is saying, here's the way it's going to go, there's a new sheriff.
09:34But you know that there are going to be legal and judicial challenges against Trump and his executive orders,
09:40and maybe some of them will pass and maybe some of them won't.
09:43You know that in two years' time, the Democrats may well take over the House,
09:47and Trump's ability to legislate is going to be dramatically constrained.
09:50You know that Trump is 78 years old. He might not be there even for four years.
09:54And if he is, after Trump is gone, it's going to be a completely new way of doing business.
09:59I mean, the fact is that in a representative democracy, with a new president every four years,
10:05and checks and balances, even if they erode, the Americans are much better off with consistent alliances,
10:12with participation and membership in U.S.-led multilateral organizations,
10:17you know, with kind of rules of the road, with rule of law.
10:20It's better for the United States. It's worse for China.
10:23And the United States is unwinding a series of rules that they think aren't as good for them,
10:29that allow other countries to take advantage of them. Yeah, they're doing that.
10:33But the fact is, it's just going to be very hard for the United States to convince these countries, including India,
10:40that when you do a deal with the Americans, it's going to stand up longer than this one presidency.
10:48Let's speak for a moment about President Trump and Xi Jinping.
10:52Because he talks of respect. He talks of knowing Xi well.
10:56And yet, in terms of policy actions, he's doubled the tariffs from 10 to 20 against China.
11:01So it seems as if he's talking a soft talk, but walking the hard road.
11:06What do you make of what's going on between China and the United States?
11:10I think that Trump is always potentially interested in a deal, even if you're an authoritarian leader.
11:18We see it with Putin. We see it with Kim Jong-un. It's even possible with the Iranians.
11:24But I am very skeptical that the U.S. and China can get to a deal this time around.
11:30First point is Trump sees that the Chinese never implemented on the deal that he struck with the Chinese during his first term.
11:38So, I mean, that makes him skeptical, first of all.
11:43Secondly, when deep sea came out, there were a lot of people around Trump,
11:49most particularly Howard Lutnick, the Secretary of Commerce, who's very involved in semiconductors,
11:55that were surprised and angered and see China as a very critical competitor that the Americans should be containing,
12:04should not be fostering a deal.
12:07So I think that there is a lot of advice from the economic team and from the national security team
12:14that Trump should be decoupling actively from China,
12:17and he should be convincing American allies that they need to join the Americans or else.
12:22And you increasingly hear Trump's officials talking privately about a tariff wall,
12:29that American allies will have to align completely with the United States on critical minerals,
12:36rare earths, steel, aluminum, semiconductors, you name it,
12:40and keep the Chinese out of their supply chains,
12:43or else the Americans will implement a tariff wall against those countries.
12:47So creating a U.S.-led bloc, all of this means that the U.S.-China relationship,
12:52which had been comparatively well managed in the last year and a half of the Biden administration,
13:00is going to head towards confrontation in relatively short order.
13:04I'm quite pessimistic about the future of U.S.-China,
13:07which again is one of the reasons I believe that ultimately India is going to have an easier time of it with the Trump administration.
13:15What form and shape does this confrontation take?
13:17You're saying that relations are likely to get worse because so far,
13:20Xi Jinping has been very balanced and nuanced in his response,
13:24even publicly cautioning and kind of developing domestic public opinion, not wanting to up the ante.
13:31He's being very mature. But what form and shape do you think this confrontation can take?
13:35Well, I don't see it as the Chinese will take over Taiwan.
13:40I do think the Chinese will test the Americans more militarily in the South China Sea and around Taiwan,
13:48as we've seen with the recent unannounced live fire exercises, which are unprecedented.
13:53Not because they're intending an invasion,
13:55but they want to see how much Trump really cares about defending allies that are halfway around the world.
14:01Or is it more like Ukraine?
14:02But Trump seems to have indicated he doesn't care at all.
14:05Well, Trump has said very different things on this issue on different days.
14:09So I think we don't know. And more importantly, the Chinese don't know.
14:13And they want to see what the Americans would actually do. But more broadly,
14:17What do you think he'll do? That's where your specialization comes to the fore.
14:22Predicting probability, assessing what might happen.
14:25If China were to push harder on Taiwan, what is President Trump likely to do here?
14:30That's right. Well, again, I think that the reason why China is going to do it is because nobody knows.
14:38You've got people around Trump that aren't very influential.
14:41They're not principals like Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, Mike Waltz, the national security advisor.
14:47They're very hawkish on China, very hawkish on Taiwan.
14:50And indeed, you know, Marco Rubio has been sanctioned by the Chinese government.
14:55First time a secretary of state has ever been sanctioned by China.
14:58If it were up to them, their response would be immediate and direct.
15:02But it's not up to them. They're going to defer completely to Trump.
15:06They're not even going to voice privately any opposition.
15:10So we're going to see what Trump is up to. And I think that's extremely interesting.
15:16I wouldn't want to predict what Trump is going to do on that issue as the Chinese test the U.S.
15:22It's like talking about Ukraine. Is he going to do a critical minerals deal or not?
15:26Is he going to walk away from the Ukrainians or not? Is he going to provide security guarantees or not?
15:30The Ukrainians are going to find that out in a few hours and Trump might change his mind in a week.
15:34Same with the Europeans. A lot will depend on how much the Europeans bring to the table.
15:38On Taiwan, a lot will depend on how much the Japanese, the South Koreans, the Australians bring to the table.
15:44So we're not in a position to make a strong call on that.
15:47What we are in a position to say is that the Americans are going to push very hard
15:52to ensure that there is a trade bloc that keeps the Chinese out.
15:58They will press American companies to invest more in the U.S. and take more out of China.
16:03They will press allies that are sending Chinese goods through their countries into the United States to stop doing that.
16:10And China is going to be very uncomfortable with that.
16:12At the same time, Rahul, the United States has now shut down 90% of all USAID programs.
16:19Historically, the U.S. has actually been responsible for 40% of the world's global humanitarian assistance.
16:27They're now cutting it off. That's the global South. That's Africa. That's Asia.
16:32These are countries that China dominates the trade relationship,
16:35but the Americans have a counterbalance because they give so much more aid.
16:40This is going to provide a big opportunity for the Chinese to have a lot more influence on the ground
16:46in countries that historically have been much more skeptical of China.
16:49I think you'll see the same thing if the Americans break from the Europeans and do a deal with Russia.
16:55I mean, the Americans are hoping that they can get the Russians away from China.
16:58That's not going to work, but they might push the Europeans more towards China.
17:02So China's response to the United States should not just be perceived as an increasing tit for tat in escalation with the Americans.
17:13It should also be perceived as the Chinese assertively looking to assert themselves,
17:18insert themselves into a vacuum geopolitically that is being left by American unilateralism
17:25and lack of interest in maintaining a leadership role that they had played over the past decades.
17:31You're speaking of a tariff wall that Trump wants to impose that has consequences for American consumers as well.
17:38We've already seen consumer sentiment in the United States slide.
17:42The moment this starts showing up in inflation numbers,
17:45when does that start hitting Trump politically and costing him so much that it hurts?
17:50Well, his approval rates have already gone down a little bit, and some of it is because of inflation,
17:56the cost of eggs, which has nothing to do with Trump policy.
17:59It has to do with avian flu.
18:01But still, you know, it gives you some some sense of what might happen as inflation ticks up
18:08because of Trump policies like tariffs and like the deportation of lots of illegal immigrants.
18:15There's also been some backlash because Trump is firing so many people from the U.S. government.
18:22And, you know, Republicans work for the U.S. government, too.
18:25They're not happy about that. They like small government.
18:27They like efficiency, but not if you take away any money from them.
18:31But I think because Trump is surrounded by an economic team that is not not going to give him any bad news,
18:39they just tell him how brilliant he is no matter what.
18:42And they're much weaker.
18:44Howard Lutnick is the strongest of that group in terms of personal access to Trump and friendship.
18:50But he's a hype man.
18:52He's he's not someone who's going to sit down and tell Trump, look, here's how you need to change this policy to be successful.
18:58He's not Robert Lighthizer who had that position of influence in the first term.
19:04He's not even he's not Jared Kushner.
19:07Certainly he's not Steve Mnuchin.
19:09So it's a much weaker team.
19:11And Trump is much more convinced that he's right.
19:14So I don't think and of course, he's not going to run again.
19:18And so I don't think that even if the markets start to go down on the back of Trump policies,
19:25I don't think that will have the same impact in containing or limiting his willingness to tariff that it clearly did in the first term.
19:35So for all of those people, including in India, that are hoping that if suddenly the bloom is off the roads with the U.S. economy,
19:45that Trump is immediately going to pivot, I wouldn't be so confident about that.
19:49You know, you were at the Munich Security Conference.
19:51We saw the kind of panic there was amongst European leaders after they heard from the American vice president.
19:57How do you think Europe is likely to respond over the next several weeks to what they're hearing from President Trump?
20:04It suddenly seems that Trump is more interested in being pals with America's adversaries than he is in maintaining friendships with strategic allies.
20:14Well, the meeting yesterday with the British prime minister went pretty well.
20:19The meeting on Monday with Emmanuel Macron went pretty well.
20:22I expect the meeting shortly with President Zelensky from Ukraine is going to go pretty well.
20:27So, I mean, if the Munich Security Conference was the low point, we've ticked we've ticked up a bit over the past week and a half.
20:36Having said that, only some of this is about Ukraine.
20:40Only some of this is about NATO.
20:42Some of it is about democracy and the fact that the Europeans don't believe that America is a functional democracy.
20:48They think that Trump is tearing it down.
20:50And they also think that Trump and Vance and Elon are pointing a gun to their heads because the Trump administration doesn't support the European Union.
21:00They want it to disband.
21:01They want leaders like the AFD, the Alternatives for Deutschland.
21:05They want the Reform Party in Britain.
21:07They want the National Rally Party in France.
21:11They want those parties to win.
21:13They think that the Europeans are one electoral cycle behind the United States in electing populist, nationalist, Euro-skeptic parties that will unwind the EU and be supportive of Trump.
21:25And if you're the Europeans, you see that as directly adversarial.
21:30You see the Russians as having a gun to your head in terms of national security.
21:34And you have the Americans with a gun to your head in terms of democracy and rule of law.
21:39And that means that the Europeans have to do a lot more to ensure that they can defend themselves and act independently.
21:47The real question, they take it seriously, but can they do enough?
21:51Can they spend enough?
21:53Can they defend themselves?
21:55Are they willing to put regulations that are serious on, for example, Twitter X and other American social media?
22:02What are they willing to do?
22:04And here, the Europeans, of course, are divided.
22:08They're weak.
22:09They're economically very fiscally constrained.
22:12So I'm skeptical that they're going to be in a position to do very much.
22:18And so it might well be that the most important legacy of Trump geopolitically is not a rapprochement with Russia.
22:27It might be the destruction of the European Union.
22:30If we look ahead to 2028, 2029, that might well be Trump's longest geopolitical legacy.
22:39What's going on between Trump and Vladimir Putin?
22:42Many Democrat leaders are convinced that Vladimir Putin has something on Trump which makes Trump dance to his tunes.
22:49Now, that sounds outlandish and quite difficult to believe.
22:52But in the manner in which Trump turned turtle on Ukraine,
22:55completely changing America's position from being the strongest supporter to voting against Ukraine and the United Nations,
23:05how do you reconcile what Trump has been doing with Vladimir Putin,
23:10whom he's treating like a dear friend and potential ally?
23:15Well, Trump wants to end the war.
23:17And you'll remember that at the end of Trump's first term with Afghanistan, he wanted to end the war.
23:24He did a deal with the Taliban where he made a lot of concessions to them,
23:29an enemy of the U.S. that no other American president would have made.
23:33And he made those concessions over the heads of American allies in Europe, in Eurasia,
23:40and in the Middle East that had been fighting side by side with the Americans for 20 years in Afghanistan.
23:46Trump didn't care, wasn't interested in coordinating.
23:48Now, of course, the stakes are a lot higher with Russia and with Europe and with Ukraine than they were in the war in Afghanistan.
23:57But I think you will find that Trump's general orientation towards that negotiation was actually very analogous.
24:04So that it shouldn't surprise us.
24:07Also, you know, Trump understands that individual European leaders don't like him, don't respect him, laugh about him behind his back.
24:15He really can't stand that.
24:17And, you know, he remembers when he met with Putin, you know, in his first term,
24:23Putin was someone that was willing to treat him, you know, with greater respect.
24:27And maybe that shouldn't matter as an American president who's most importantly supposed to be representing the long term national interest of the American people.
24:36But Trump, who has an enormous ego and really holds a grudge if you treat him badly.
24:42Think about how he responded to Obama at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
24:45And he's never forgotten that.
24:47I think that matters.
24:48So I think if you put those things together, you get you get a reasonable explanation.
24:52It's impossible to imagine that Putin has anything on Trump, because if he had something on Trump,
24:58why didn't they use it in the first term when Trump actually had a harder line on Russia than Obama?
25:04I mean, Trump was the one that provided the the javelin anti-tank missiles.
25:09Obama thought it was too risky.
25:10Trump was the one that increased sanctions on Russian oligarchs that were close to Putin.
25:15So I think it's it's completely conspiracy theory that is has no evidence to it,
25:21actually contradicts evidence to argue that Trump somehow is is indebted to Putin or is is being extorted by Putin.
25:31I think that that's silly.
25:33And also Trump's position on Ukraine has evolved pretty substantially in the last 96 hours.
25:41I don't think that's going to happen.
25:43He calls him a dictator that wants to do a deal.
25:47How is that war between Russia and Ukraine likely to end?
25:50And what would Mr. Zelensky be thinking of Trump at the moment?
25:55Because he seems to at one step call him a hopeless dictator who's lost all popularity.
26:00And the other side is willing to cut a deal.
26:02How does that war potentially end and in what fashion?
26:05That's right. And he backed off of the dictator comment just yesterday.
26:09So, again, I think anyone that's telling you they know where the war is going to end is is clearly smoking something
26:16because they haven't been watching how willing Trump is to change his position on the basis of how he thinks these individual leaders are treating him.
26:26I think that Trump is is potentially interested in seeing how much the Europeans are capable of doing,
26:32that if they stand up a large number of troops on the ground in Ukraine in the aftermath of a ceasefire,
26:39Trump would be willing to push the Russians harder to accept those troops.
26:43And maybe Russia, the U.S. would offer a security backstop.
26:48And he would do it because Trump could then say legitimately that I got the Europeans to take a leadership role
26:54when Biden was never able to. But if the Europeans are incapable of doing that,
26:59then he's much more likely to sign a harder bargain for Zelensky over his head directly with Putin.
27:07That'll include a much broader set of agreements, diplomatic reengagement, economic reengagement,
27:14reduction of sanctions, restarting arms control talks with the Russians.
27:18And again, I mean, this is all very much in play right now.
27:22No one should argue they know where this war is going to go. I think it's very likely we'll get a ceasefire.
27:27But on what terms and will the Europeans be satisfied with it?
27:31And can the Ukrainians go along and and maintain their their present governance model?
27:37All of those things are very uncertain presently.
27:40Before we end, how coherent is Trump 2.0 looking from your lens?
27:44Is there cohesion between Elon Musk and Donald Trump?
27:48He's been invited to important cabinet meetings. Is that the way it's likely to stay?
27:52Are you counting down to a blow up?
27:55Elon Musk is by far the most powerful person in the United States after Trump.
28:00He activates Trump. Trump said last week, I want you even more aggressive.
28:04I want you doing more. Trump has always been very good at managing relationships
28:09with people that are wealthier than he is, more powerful than he is.
28:12And Elon is that by a factor of 10, maybe more.
28:17And so the fact that Elon I mean, Trump, 78 years old, he was shot in the head,
28:21almost assassinated a few months ago. He tells his friends, I don't have much time.
28:26And not even four years might have only two years if the Democrats take the House
28:30during midterms, which is certainly plausible. And, you know, again, his health,
28:34we don't know where that will be as a 78 year old man.
28:37We know that there are other people out there that certainly want to do harm to Trump.
28:42So he wants to move as fast as possible. And Elon is the guy that singularly allows
28:47Trump to accomplish that. This relationship is incredibly strong.
28:51In my view, it's only getting stronger.
28:53No, but we're seeing from some American government departments a pushback against
28:57Elon Musk's emails, the Department of Defense, Department of State writing back,
29:03saying don't respond to what Elon Musk is doing. So will that pushback gain momentum
29:07or will Musk push back against this pushback and just push his way through?
29:12As you saw, Elon was giving a speech at Cabinet and Trump was completely supporting him.
29:17Most of the Cabinet officials went along with him.
29:21The couple that did not were not getting into public fights with him.
29:25They were just saying, you know, these are places where clearances and classification
29:30is important. They wanted to ensure that you didn't have employees that were responding
29:36to Elon and, you know, suddenly taking classified material and making it exposed
29:42not only to somebody that doesn't necessarily have the right to use those clearances
29:49in other ways and also potentially exposing that information to being collected
29:55by adversaries like Russia and China. You will continue to see internal pushback
30:00because Elon is powerful. He has access. He's moving fast and breaking things,
30:05which works in Silicon Valley, does not work in the U.S. government.
30:08But Trump is completely aligned with it. So the pushback you are talking about,
30:12not one percent of that is coming from Trump himself and he is the only voice that matters here.
30:17Some of your answers have felt like I was watching an episode of Saturday Night Live,
30:21but this is very, very serious and far from being any laughing matter. Hang tight.
30:25Does it feel surreal? Does it feel like you're living in some ways in a fiction novel
30:31which is playing itself out? A geopolitical fiction novel?
30:34No, no, no. Truth has always been stranger than fiction, my friend.
30:37And, you know, the fact is this is deadly serious for Americans and for people all over the world.
30:44And I consider it an obligation to do everything I can to be on top of this
30:49as it's changing in world-changing ways every day and trying to make sure
30:53that people have the best understanding of that they possibly can.
30:56We in India are only watching from the sidelines. You, Ian, are right in the middle
30:59of what's happening, the law of the jungle taking over. Hang tight. Stay strong for joining us.
31:04Thank you very much.