Alex Barth and Brian Hines go LIVE to discuss the latest hires as the Patriots round out their coaching staff, including Todd Downing, who was selected as the new wide receivers coach. Then, they discuss Cleveland Browns defensive end Myles Garrett requesting a trade, and determining whether the Patriots could make a move.
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SportsTranscript
00:00What's going on everyone, welcome back into another live edition of the Patriots Beat
00:28Podcast here on the CLNS Media Network presented by our wonderful friends over at Price Picks
00:34and Game Time. It's Brian Hines back as always with Alex Barth. We have a coaching hire to
00:40talk about today, we have a player signing, we'll be talking some fullbacks, a small futures
00:45contract given out by the Patriots today, then we have some NFL news, maybe a star pass
00:51rusher requesting trades, big week in the sports world for trades in general and maybe
00:57that's touching the NFL soon with one Miles Garrett. But we will start with some of the
01:03new additions coming to New England next season and the one big spot left on the staff that
01:08was left to be filled was wide receivers coach. It's a position we've talked a lot about because
01:15it hasn't been great in that room for a while, obviously here when developing some of those
01:20young players and they landed on Todd Downing. According to Greg Bedard, he was with Rabel. He
01:28coached tight ends in Tennessee for two years. He was promoted to offensive coordinator. I believe
01:33that was after Arthur Smith left. He took over for two years and then he got fired after the
01:39second year. The offense, I believe it was 28th in points scored. So he's been with the Jets the
01:44last two years as a passing in coordinator and quarterbacks coach. That's kind of his background.
01:49He's done a lot of work with quarterbacks, but he's never coached the wide receiver position
01:53before. And that was a big thing. We talked a lot about getting an experienced guy in here
01:57who's done it, who's coached the position. I get he's been an offensive coordinator,
02:01but I don't know. Do you like that or would you have preferred like a West Welker or someone
02:09who's actually coached wide receivers? Yeah, I absolutely would have preferred somebody's
02:14coach wide receivers. Like, don't get me wrong. Todd Downing's resume is solid for what it is.
02:20This is a guy that's at 44 years old, has been around this league. He's been with the Vikings,
02:26Rams, Lions, Bills, Raiders, Titans, and Jets. He's been a quarterbacks coach. He's been a tight
02:32ends coach. He's been an offensive coordinator. He's been passing coordinator. Like that's,
02:36he's even worked in, in front offices for, for a spell, uh, very experienced,
02:41very well-rounded candidate, but for a team that hasn't had a true wide receivers coach in years,
02:47I just don't really get it. Like get somebody who can develop players at the position,
02:54especially if they plan on taking a wide receiver higher in the draft. Now,
02:58and I was especially surprised because Mike reason is Sunday notes mentioned Welker as a
03:03candidate for the position. If, if they go out and they signed Welk and maybe it's not Welker
03:10because he's, he's probably passed this point in his career, but a true wide receivers coach,
03:16if they go out and get somebody like that as like the assistant wide receivers coach.
03:19Right. And I was kind of talking to somebody about it today and it was kind of posed to me
03:24this way, right? Let's say they'd hired Wes Welker as the receivers coach and Todd
03:28Downing was the assistant receivers coach. Okay. Like I get it. Cause Downing strength is in
03:34teaching the offense, not teaching the technique, but teaching the offense.
03:39And how many times did we hear last year that Jayvon Baker couldn't get on the same
03:43page as the coaching staff, right? Or Jalen Polk maybe didn't entirely grasp the offense
03:47or even some of those more veteran guys. I think that they believe Downing is somebody
03:51who can do a good job relaying that information, but you still need somebody who can coach the
03:55technique, especially if you're going to have a rookie in here and it's going to be a young
03:58room overall, no matter what. So if you told me it was like Welker is the wide receivers coach
04:03and Downing is the assistant wide receivers coach and Downing's there to make sure they all know
04:07the playbook and they're on the same page and Welker's there to work on the technique.
04:10Fine. So if it's the other way around, I guess like, sure, whatever, but you need that guy.
04:17You have to have that guy, especially at this position. How many times do we talk about
04:21it during the season? And I see everybody in the chat talking about how, you know, it's
04:26not going to matter if they don't draft good players. And I get that. I do. But why receiver
04:31development has been such a problem here for a long time. And it's not, they've drafted
04:36their fair share of bad players, but that's not entirely it. That's really not entirely
04:41it. There there's, you, you see guys go elsewhere and have more success or you see guys regress.
04:48Jalen Polk wasn't, isn't this bad from what we saw when he first arrived, even there was,
04:54but then it just, it plateaued and it got worse. Honestly, it didn't plateau. It got
04:59worse from the summer. Like he, I don't think he's that bad. He didn't get less talented
05:04the course of the year. You know what I mean? Yeah. Jalen Polk did not get worried. He didn't
05:09get any better, but that also kind of goes to development. Even a bad player in theory
05:14should get better over the course of the season if you're able to develop them. And I, you
05:19know, I don't think he's the only one. I think they've had other wide receivers come through
05:24here that, you know, I don't know that they would have been great, but could have been
05:29solid players had they, you know, maybe had the right coaching. So this one's a head
05:34scratcher to me. If they go out and get like a true skills coach as the assistant, it will
05:41make a lot more sense because that's what they've been lacking. And the other thing
05:45is like the whole thing with Josh McDaniels, he's supposed to be this great teacher, right?
05:48He's supposed to be the one that's relaying the playbook. It's definitely something you want.
05:56It, I don't want to say it wasn't something that needed to be addressed. It did, but I don't think
06:01it was the main concern, skill development, talent development. That was the main concern
06:07hiring downing to me. Doesn't address that. Yep. And that kind of lays, it feels like just
06:12the way you set that, like set that up. That was the room last year at that coaching spot,
06:17right? Cause we had Tyler Hughes who wasn't a wide receiver, but he would come in here.
06:22He kind of knew the offense, what you expected to want to run. And then we said, okay, Taekwon
06:26Underwood, the player who's done it before would be more of that skills guy, right? So Tyler Hughes
06:33is implementing the offense and then Taekwon Underwood can take them out in the field and work
06:37on their release package or their route running and stuff like that. And it obviously didn't
06:41unfold well. Now those guys didn't have the experience of Todd Downing, right? Neither
06:46of those guys were offensive coordinators. I believe that was Taekwon Underwood's first
06:50NFL coaching job. It was mostly at the collegiate ranks for him. So
06:54maybe you can find, you know, with Downing's experience and then you go find someone,
06:59you know, maybe it's a McDaniels guy. Like Mick Lombardi is just a
07:02Niners general offensive assistant. What do you want? How about Ben McDaniels?
07:07That's true. It's cause he did a great job with those receivers in Houston.
07:12Would, did they say he was out or could Nick Kaley keep him in Houston? Is there like,
07:17cause there could be a McDaniels Kaley connection.
07:20So I hadn't seen any update since Kaley got hired. I think the idea was kind of that
07:26the whole thing was in limbo until they, you know, it was unknown. And usually when that's the case,
07:31teams will let these guys interview. You're right. I would not be surprised if, and I,
07:35it doesn't matter now they hired Downing, but I would not be surprised if Kaley keeps Ben McDaniels.
07:42And then you were, you were Taylor who was big on a Luke Steckle. Like he's got wide
07:47receiver background now that could be he's tight. He has tight end background.
07:53I thought he had some wide receiver background too.
07:56Does he? He had a bunch. I'm trying to remember now. Um, uh, he had one year as an assistant
08:03wide receivers coach. It's okay. So that's, that's not much. You want somebody a little
08:07more experienced than that. I take him as a tight ends coach.
08:10Well, you have Thomas Brown. So that's true. That's probably not tight ends coach past
08:17game coordinator. I think it's his title. That's Thomas Brown. So, yeah. So yeah, I don't know.
08:23It's, it's definitely a guy with experience, but it's not someone with wide receiver coach
08:28experience. So getting someone, I don't know if Welker would want to come in here and be like
08:32an assistant in that room to Todd Downing, like, cause he's been, you know, he's led a room, uh,
08:38in his past. So I don't know if that's something that would interest him, but getting someone in
08:41here who can help with the on-field development a little more than you would think a Todd Downing
08:46was, would be my preference now to kind of mix and match these guys. Same. Yeah.
08:53So, um, I don't know that I think we both agree. That's not a higher we're thrilled about
08:59does just the last like week since the staff has, you know, really started to take fold.
09:03Like, are you feeling better or worse about it now that, you know, Pellegrino,
09:07Ryan Belichick are out, uh, you know, we have our answer at wide receivers coach like has,
09:13does it, do you think any differently about, you know,
09:15this Vrabel staff now that we're getting the little clearer picture of the whole thing?
09:20Um, I would say that, that this is probably my least favorite hire they've made so far
09:26in Downing. I like where they're at beyond that. I obviously don't love,
09:29and we talked about this last week. I don't love them moving on from Mike Pellegrino,
09:33but if the idea is that, you know, we, we found out from Mike Reese too, this week
09:39that Matthew Slater is not going to be back. Troy Brown's not going to be back.
09:43If the idea was just like Slater's a weird one too. I feel like what's the harm,
09:47what's the harm unless he doesn't want to be here. Like what's the harm of letting that
09:52might be part of it. You know, his, his role was pretty specific to Gerard Mayo.
09:57And so maybe give him a general assistant, like he helped Jeremy Springer. He helped Brendan
10:04school or Drake may even talked about this week. How, you know, Slater helped them with,
10:08with some of those things, like just being a rookie and being in the league. Like
10:12that, that feels like a weird one. If, if it was them showing Slater the door and kind of
10:16kicking them out, that, that kind of feels weird, but maybe he had a, had a role in it too.
10:20He didn't want to come back. I also just feel like it's, you know,
10:27clean slate, right? All right. We're just, you know, everybody's out. It's going to be a full
10:30reset. I know they kept the two special teams coaches. And by the way, I, I saw before we got
10:35on here, it doesn't sound like Cody tip. It's going to be back with them. So there is even
10:38turnover there. Vrabel is familiar with Quinn. I think it had Quinn not been here last year.
10:44He still would have been the guy for that job. Um, and then obviously with Springer as well,
10:48but I, I, the vibe I'm getting from all of this is it's a full reset. And I know that was kind of
10:55what gave some people hesitancy early on last year was all right, you're moving on from bill,
11:00but you're keeping everybody that around that was around him. So how much is really going to change
11:05for the people who wanted to see change? And this is, you know, you, you won back-to-back,
11:11you won four games back-to-back years in a row, and it was with different coaching staffs, but
11:15like how much of that do you want to keep? I think Vrabel just wanted a clean start.
11:19And that's why you see guys like Slater guys like Pellegrino moving on.
11:25Yep. Yeah. It's definitely with Pellegrino and Belichick and Brian Belichick in the secondary.
11:31That's a risk, you know, cause those have been, I wouldn't say you're back-to-back four win seasons.
11:37I wouldn't put much blame on the secondary for those, you know, they got a lot out of those
11:41guys, you know, obviously Christian Gonzalez was a first round pick and we had all high
11:45expectations, but the way he's played and then finding like guys like Alex Austin, essentially
11:50off the street and plugging those guys in, like moving off of Pellegrino it's a risk, but maybe
11:54the guys they bring in are just as good. So I was, I liked the staff at the start, you know,
12:00Josh McDaniels was a good hire trail. William seems like he was on that, you know, send up
12:06to a defensive coordinator anyway, but I think some of the stuff the last week, even like a
12:10Doug Morone as the offensive line coach, if that's, it looks like that's where he's going
12:14to be working. I know again, a guy with a lot of experience, but some of his past results
12:18haven't necessarily been great, whether it's, you know, going back to Alabama or his time at
12:22new Orleans and then Pellegrino Belichick and now Todd Downing, a wide receiver.
12:27So I've kind of cooled some love for the staff, but you know, I still like Josh. I still think
12:33Terrell Williams will do a good enough job, although that's secondary. I still think it's
12:37a good staff. I just don't love this one. I would probably, I don't know. Would you have a
12:42grade for it? B minus B. Yeah. Somewhere around there. I think B's fun. Let's let's see where
12:48they put everybody. I'm curious what they're going to do about offensive line coach. Is it
12:51Doug Morone or is he like a consultant and somebody else's coaching the line? Let's
12:57we'll say it's going to be in the B range. I think they all give them that it's in the B range. Let
13:02me see where they place everybody before I give you like a final, final grade.
13:05Yep. Yeah. But I'm in there. I'm in there with you. So I believe that was it on the
13:11staff. Correct. Todd Downing in Taiquan Underwood. He took a job with Dallas.
13:18Tippett, as you mentioned, coming out. So just a few other of those assistants that were left
13:23going out and Todd Downing going in. But also we had in a full back tight end slash full back
13:29fun stuff. But before we talk about that, I want to talk about price picks where you guys pick just
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14:59back to Patriots, we have a potential tight end slash fullback in here. Giovanni Richie,
15:06what a name that is. He spent some time with Frabel in Cleveland. He was there in training
15:12camp this past summer, but they released him a knee injury. He suffered a knee injury.
15:18And so we didn't really play, but maybe we're seeing our fullback or again,
15:23tight end fullback versatile guy. But what do you got on a Giovanni Richie?
15:30Versatile player, like you said, is played tight end and fullback familiarity with both
15:33Mike Vrabel and Ben McAdoo. It from everything I read from the Cleveland writers, he was going to
15:39make the team last year with the Browns and camp was one of their big surprises of camp and then
15:45got suffered a knee injury in the preseason, got cut with an injury settlement and didn't sign
15:50in the NFL. I don't know that he's the answer at fullback. I think he, you know, if we just
15:55look at that kind of player, uh, who was the guy we thought they were going to turn into like a,
16:00a super utility back a couple of years ago was the cold year. And then he retired. No,
16:06he was a veteran Danny Vitale, Danny Vitale or Vitality or whatever it was like he,
16:11he was here the COVID year and we were like, wow, they're really going to have,
16:16you know, it was like that guy with cam Newton, you can do a bunch of fun stuff with it.
16:20And then he opted out. I don't think he ever played again. I think he retired after that,
16:23but anyway, uh, maybe it gives us some indication. Maybe Josh McDaniels wants to get back to that,
16:29that he tried to do in 2020 and couldn't do so that, that this isn't like a true James Devlin,
16:35Jakob Johnson converted defensive end fullback kind of player. He's not quite Kyle use check.
16:40He's closer to Devlin and Jakob Johnson than he has used check, but he does have some of that
16:44pass catching ability can line up outside the formation, things like that. So if that's the
16:48kind of fullback they want, I think he'll be in the mix. I think he certainly got it can be in
16:53the mix and can compete for that spot, but I don't know that he's done enough at the NFL level where
16:59you're not bringing in somebody else, maybe to compete with him. Think about that, Brian,
17:02a fullback position battle in training camp, that, that, that is like as Patriots
17:10beat as you can get. I love that. And we could have a kicker competition probably.
17:16Where are we going to run with reason for the fullback competition competition? I don't know.
17:20That's going to be, we're going to have to figure out the best place. We don't have a
17:23quarterback competition this year. So that would be backup quarterback,
17:26backup quarterback, maybe. So that would be nice. We'll all eyes on fullback, uh,
17:30and kicker competition. Giovanni Ricci Ricci is the new, uh, Jacoby Brissett.
17:35I just, so he Yakup Johnson was 6, 3, 2 56. They have Richie as 6, 3, 2 45,
17:4310 pound difference. So yeah, maybe not that full, like downhill bruiser.
17:48He's also more athletic than Johnson was too. Yeah. Let me look up. Um, what's like
17:54Devlin Patrick, Patrick Ricard or who's well, Ricard's like 300 pounds. Yeah. Use check would
18:01be a go one Kyle. You should, I think he's, he's bigger than use check was only 2 55 is only two
18:0850 use checks, uh, 6, 2, 2 35. So yeah, that's like 10 pounds, even lighter, uh, than Richie.
18:14So, so I'm trying to think of like, he's like right in the middle of those two,
18:19right. Which is, I think that's kind of his playing style to a guy like, um,
18:23Oh, I know a good comp. Um, and he was a Patriot member, Andrew Beck.
18:28Yep. He's still kicking with the Texans and he kind of does that. He's he, he is a fullback,
18:33but he plays some tight end too. And they use them in the past game and all that. I would,
18:37uh, Andrew Beck might be a, I think that's more of the kind of fullback we're looking at here.
18:43Any, uh, draft guys that maybe fit that mold. I know you've done your,
18:47is it the Bama kid who you love? Does he fit that mold or is he more?
18:50He absolutely does, but he was supposed to be at the senior bowl and he wasn't. And I,
18:54there's always these guys that like, I'm not really sure if they're in the draft or not,
18:58but Robbie would be great. Um, that's the guy I want. Uh, uh, the kid from,
19:04I don't know, the kid from Michigan is a junior. He's not coming out. Um, we'll see. I'll take a
19:09little deeper into that. I got to focus on Robbie Utes and now nobody's talking about him.
19:13That's the Bama one, right? Yeah. Okay. They don't have a, I just went to mock draft database.
19:19They don't have a fullback section, the district. They don't, I, they, I, you know,
19:23they have in the past or they've included them with the running backs or something. Cause I've
19:26seen them on there. Maybe they're under, I was scrolling through the running backs. I don't
19:33see a fullback listed. That's just the last time anybody mentioned Robbie Utes
19:42on like Twitter. Maybe you can get, cause field Yates mentioned that he was going to be in the
19:45draft and then I haven't seen anything since he kept talking about special teams during the senior
19:51bowl broadcast. He knows where the good stuff's at, but, um, so yeah, the last person talking
19:58about Robbie Utes on Twitter is me. So that checks out, that checks out. So, uh, Giovanni
20:04Ritchie, maybe that, uh, shows a little bit into their fullback plans or that tight end fullback
20:10hybrid plans, uh, going into the off season here now that they are, uh, putting that in the lineup,
20:16but, um, some other NFL news and other formal former guy, or yeah, former guy who played under
20:23Mike Frabel miles Garrett requested a trade today. It doesn't sound like the Browns are currently
20:29willing to cooperate with those requests, but he, uh, asked for a trade out of Cleveland.
20:35He wants to go to a super bowl contender, 29 years old pass rush, obviously big high up on
20:43the Patriots needs this off season. Are you trading for miles Garrett? If you are Mike
20:49Frabel and the new England Patriots, Elliot Wolf spent two years with him in Cleveland as well.
20:53So lots of connections. Are you making that trade? And what would you be willing to give
20:59up if you were making that trade, if you're the Patriots? Yeah, this, this one's tricky for a lot
21:04of reasons. First of all, he said he wants to go to a contender. And I don't think that means a
21:09team that's going to win soon. Like, you know, give us another year or two and Drake may is
21:12going to take the jump. I think it means like he wants to be in the super bowl next year.
21:16So to sell him, he has to be a massive believer in Drake may and a massive believer in Mike
21:23Frabel. Let's say you can even get to that step, which I don't know that you can. And by the way,
21:29I wrote about this on 98, five, the sports.com earlier this afternoon. If you want to check it
21:32out, let's say you can even get to that step. What do you give up for him for is, and I know
21:39he's a tremendous player and I'm the one that always says, you know, are you going to draft
21:43a player better than miles Garrett at four? I would be tempted, but at the end of the day,
21:49Garrett's here for what? Three or four years, max. He's 29 years old.
21:54Yeah. The age is the tough part with that. You're talking about a guy who with the fourth overall
22:00pick quite deal. You're going to build your franchise around for the next decade plus,
22:03but you're not going to get it done with 38 because those teams at the back end of the first round
22:08are in position to make this sort of trade. They are clearly going to get a player better than
22:12miles Gary, uh, or they're, they're clearly not going to get a player better with miles Garrett
22:16with those picks. So if you're the Patriots, what you probably have to do is trade 38 and something
22:24else or some things else to move up into the first round of the head of the draft, what the Vikings
22:29did last year, see if you can get up around the twenties and then hopefully that pick plus
22:35whatever else you offer, you can outbid whatever other contenders are going for miles Garrett.
22:41That's what you probably have to do. I don't think either of those things are going to happen. I
22:45don't think that they're going to be able to convince him that they are ready to win at the
22:50level he wants to win at right now. And I don't think that they're going to be able to put the
22:54package together to get them. I it's, it's a complete and total pipe tree to get miles Garrett
22:59here in New England. It'd be nice to have a player, but I just, they're not in a position
23:04on multiple fronts to make that happen. Now, that being said, and this is kind of what I wrote
23:08about, there is a trickle down effect here. There's multiple trickle down effects here
23:13that are going to impact the Patriots off season. If he gets traded, let's be clear about that.
23:17I don't know if you saw the quote from Andrew Berry. That was like a couple of weeks ago
23:24where he said, yeah, we're not trading miles Garrett. He was at, he said,
23:27even if somebody offered me, I think he said like two first and then some, I would say no.
23:31And he even used the line. Like we want him to go from Cleveland to Canton, which if you noticed
23:36miles Garrett in his statement, flip that said the goal is not to go from Cleveland to Canton.
23:41So I don't think the Browns want to deal them. Maybe they hold on one. Maybe they make them
23:45wait a year, but let's say they do deal them. Uh, there's multiple areas where this impacts
23:50Patriots first in free agency, because if he gets traded, he's probably getting a new contract.
23:55And now that edge rusher market has been reset and I don't think anybody's going to top him.
24:00But when you talk about what a deal looks like relative to his guys, like Josh sweat guys,
24:06like any of those, those pass rushers at the top of the free agency class, those guys now going to
24:11be asking for more money because the market's been reset and none of them will ask for miles
24:14Garrett money. Cause it's not going to get it, but how much more is a pass rusher worth than
24:19they were before Garrett got a new deal. And my guess is if Garrett's traded, it's going to happen
24:23before free agency, before teams, you know, cap money gets tied up. So I don't know that it's like,
24:28well, sign him before Garrett gets traded. I don't know that you can do that.
24:32So it impacts in there. And then obviously in the draft,
24:35the Browns might look at this, it's bad quarterback year. So we're going to kick that
24:39down the road. Let's just one for one. We're going to trade miles Garrett. We're going to
24:43replace them with the Abdul Carter. So we can keep doing what we're doing defensively.
24:47There were some people who thought they might even pair Carter and Garrett together before this
24:52happened. So, right. However, unlikely it was that, uh, Abdul Carter is going to get to four
25:01miles Garrett getting traded, just cuts into those odds significantly even further.
25:06So this does not help the case for the Patriots. And it also, if the brands, let's say they get
25:10another first round pick, well now maybe you don't need to take sugar or cam ward or two,
25:15if you want a quarterback, because what if, you know, how do they view it? And the way some people
25:20are talking about the quarterback class right now, what's the gap between whoever you put second
25:27there, right? Let's call it sugar. Cause that seems to be the consensus right now is the gap
25:33between sugar and QB three, whether that's Jackson dart, which it's not Jalen Milrow,
25:39Will Howard, Jackson darts, QB one. I heard JJ McCarthy was better than Caleb Williams and
25:45Levis was better than CJ Stroud. Hell of an agent every year. Is it all the same agent?
25:51Maybe, probably. I mean, we could, we could really go back.
25:56It was Matt Mack Jones. Matt Jones was one of these guys and he still ended up going in the
26:01first, but people thought he was going to a third overall Mack Jones in 21.
26:06Who was it in 22? What was the 22? Oh, that class. That was the one year the league got smart.
26:12And we didn't have, uh, no, actually Malik Willis. People thought Malik Willis was going to go one,
26:16one. So as Mack Jones, Malik Willis, Will Levis, JJ McCarthy. Now Jackson darts. There's just one
26:23of these quarterbacks every year that is average to terrible that for whatever reason we have to
26:28get told is actually a top five pick. And we don't know JJ and dart have different agents.
26:33So, okay. So they're both just putting in good work. They're just both excellent. They're both
26:37excellent. They went to the same agent school or something. Anyway. Um, if you're the Browns,
26:41right, and you're there at two and you have a chance to add Abdul Carter and replace miles
26:45Garrett, what's the, what's the gap between Sanders and whoever your QB three is.
26:50Milro dart Howard, whoever compared to the gap between Abdul Carter and.
26:58You know, Donovan has a rock who were Kyle canard or one of these edge rushes. It's going to go at
27:02the end of the first, even Shemar Stewart, right? The gap for the edge rushers is probably bigger.
27:09And do the Browns look at it and do they get their quarterback later? So I would say this,
27:14this would make it if the trade happens, it's even more or less like, I still don't think it's
27:18going to happen to begin with, but it's even more or less likely that the Patriots have a shot at
27:22Abdul. Or just not even get a quarterback. I mean, get, get a quarterback later next year,
27:27right? Like if they could load up or they kick it down the road, extra first round pick next year.
27:32And say, okay, we're like, this is going to be a long kind of rebuild here.
27:36We're going to take best player available this year, which is Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter.
27:41If you're trading, uh, miles Garrett, probably Abdul Carter. And now we have two first round
27:46picks. We're not going to be good. So we're probably going to be at the high, high of the
27:50draft. Anyway, we have two first round picks next year. We can dip into that quarterback market,
27:54probably going to be a lot better than this year. So that's how they probably should look at this.
27:59So then that, you know, hurts the Patriots if they don't like door or cam ward and you're missing
28:05one of those two defensive players or Travis Hunter offense defense, uh, at the number four
28:10pick there. But yeah, yeah. Just going back. Like I don't see the path for miles Garrett to come
28:16here. I know that Khalil Mac was the, uh, popular kind of trade comparison, which he went for two
28:23first round picks a third and a six, and then it was Mac in a second round pick, uh, back.
28:27He was 27. So he was two years younger, but never had the production, uh, that a miles Garrett did
28:33even, you know, clear Mac was really good, but, uh, I don't see how the Patriots can kind of fork
28:39that over for a 29 year old pass rusher, even though he's as good as miles Garrett, like you're
28:46just not in a spot where you can hand over first round picks right now for that guy. So it would
28:52definitely fill a need. He's one of the best defensive players, uh, in the league, but I, I
28:58just don't see the path to getting that done. If you're, if you're the Patriots right now, Sam, so,
29:04um, anything else with that, the Abdul dreams over Ashton wants to know.
29:11I mean, I, I'm not going to say it's over. This draft is probably too unpredictable to
29:17completely rule it out right now, but it is, it is a dream. I think that's the best way to describe
29:22it at this point. It's closer to a dream than a reality. Yep. So we'll keep monitoring that.
29:27Who knows with how, again, how trades are going down these days with Luca and then Darren Fox and
29:33NFL, it's the NFL's turn to maybe do, do something crazy, but hopefully at least,
29:37well, I guess he requested it. So they will, but like, we'll hear from more than one team maybe.
29:42Well, and also miles Garrett's going to know he's getting traded from the organization that he's the
29:47face of as opposed to just finding out the middle of the night. I, what the hell were they thinking?
29:53That was crazy. The, the, I can like sort of understand the logic behind the trade. I don't
30:00agree with it, but I guess I see what they were getting at. The path to get there to me is what's
30:06so mind numbingly stupid between, you know, he's a little overweight. Okay. And he still averages
30:1338 and eight. That's pretty good. And then again, even if you are going to say for whatever reason
30:18you're out on Luca Donchich and these guys know basketball better than me, maybe they see
30:22something I don't find. You're not going to shop them. Yeah. I'm going to see what you can get.
30:27Do they know basketball better than you? I thought you should. I think you could have got a better
30:31return for Luca. If you were in charge, probably. Well, I did have somebody point out that like,
30:36I think it's like 30 something percent of the draft picks over the next two years are owned by
30:41four teams. Cause the thunder have a ton of them and the spurs have a lot of birds, have a bunch
30:47or something like that, but it's like, okay. Trade him to one of those teams. That's why they have
30:54those picks. You don't think the spurs would want to pair Luca and Wemby together? I will say
30:59Wemby and Darren Fox is going to be sick. Darren Fox, one of my favorite players in the league,
31:04super underrated. Cause he was stuck out in the middle of nowhere and Sacramento, but yeah.
31:09Or maybe you don't get the picks, but maybe there's another team that's like willing to move
31:12on from a stud player. Maybe there's another team that's fed up with their star, not 31 and injury
31:18prone. Right? Exactly. Like I know there's been a little bit of a rumbling out of Milwaukee that
31:22maybe Giannis is available for the right price. Imagine yet now Giannis for Luca, that's a trade
31:29as Felger would say, that's a hockey trade Giannis for Luca. And I think I like Luca better than
31:36Giannis. And I would still say that, you know, the Mavericks got the raw end, but like, that's a
31:41trade. That's a, you want to talk about defense wins championships for building for the next 10
31:46years, not just the next four, blah, blah, blah. Like that's the trade you make Anthony Davis.
31:51I know he's only 31, but he, that's not a move for the future. You're, you're at best keeping,
32:01excuse me. You're at best keeping level in the present with Anthony Davis at best.
32:06And you're not nearly as, I mean, you gave up six years in age. So that was a very dumb trade.
32:13Well, didn't the GM say like, and he said a lot of stupid things, although he took like
32:17four questions and then left to leave poor Jason kid alone by himself up there at the press
32:22conference. But he said like, we think of the future as three or four years. Cause we won't
32:26be here in 10 years. So, man, what a mess that was for the Mavs. I feel bad for Mavs fans,
32:33but crazy, crazy, crazy stuff. What is the equivalent? What would be the
32:39equivalent Patriots this year? Oh, for the Patriots, obviously they're going to have to
32:43be on the Laker side. Cause they don't have, I guess if they, if they like trading Drake
32:49may for Matthew Stafford, I guess would be that side of it. But like, can they convince a team
32:57like Ramond Dreyfus Stevenson for DK Metcalf? Um, you know, something like that, I guess,
33:07but I don't know. There were a lot of NFL comps going around.
33:12Schefter had the Jackson for Joe Burrow, which made zero sense. That that's Don Chitch for Yannis.
33:20Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. No, the best one I saw was Josh Allen for Matthew Stafford,
33:28where it's like Stafford's good. It's not bad, but he's not as good. And he's significantly older.
33:35Yeah. I would not be mad by the way that trade happened. I saw Joe Burrow, like after they
33:42lost the super bowl, if they traded Joe Burrow for Matt Stafford, something like that, that would
33:45make that would that's better than Joe Burrow for Lamar Jackson. That one made zero sense.
33:50The best, I thought of kind of an interesting one that's a little outside of the box, but I think
33:54maybe people don't get just like talking to people in Dallas and stuff like that
33:59is it's not just that Luke was a great player. This is a team that has very little history.
34:05Luca was already the second best player in franchise history. He was on track to be the
34:10best. And they like the, the story of it and sports is ultimately about stories to go from
34:16Dirk, who was a once in a generation player and literally find that player again, a generation
34:23later. And they played together for a year. And it's that same thing. European guy comes over
34:28offensive juggernaut, all of that. It made me think, imagine if the Packers lost that super
34:36bowl to the Steelers and then traded Rogers. Now the Packers have more history than the Mavericks
34:41do, but what's what's driving so many people in Dallas wild is not that Luca was a good player.
34:47He was a continuation of Dirk and to blow that up. Like it's like, you, you seen this work,
34:55they want to title with Dirk. You've seen how this works. Why would you go away from that?
35:00So I don't, you know, I think the seamless transit, maybe Burrow's a good example too,
35:04because that's not a team with a ton of success because it's not just that they
35:08traded a good player. They traded the face of the franchise, a franchise that
35:12historically has not had many faces. I guess that's true. Now the bills have had faces.
35:18They just suck as a team. Burrow. Yeah. Burrow's another good one. Burrow for Stafford
35:25Patriots though. That's, that's a good one. I don't know what that,
35:28like what's the Patriots equivalent to that trade right now?
35:31I mean, well, it would be May 1st Stafford kind of, but establishes Dodgers. They're going to go
35:37the other way. It's like, how do you, who is the solid start? Mike own Wenu for DK Metcalf.
35:45Yeah. Something like that. Or like Bentley,
35:49like your defensive anchor drawn Bentley for yeah. Oh no, it'd be Hunter Henry. It'd be Hunter Henry
35:56for DK Metcalf. That's what the Patriots for DK Hunter Henry and a pick for D in a future pick for
36:01DK Metcalf, which I would do. I would absolutely do not the fourth future pick. Yeah. Um, you
36:07re-sign Austin Hooper, you're drafted tight end in the third round, boom, off and running. But
36:13I don't think the funnier thing is like everybody now who's putting out, cause this time of year,
36:17people send me mock drafts. Some of them are really good. Some of them aren't based in reality
36:21at all, but like, I can't feel like I can call them unrealistic anymore. My buddy sent me a
36:26draft today and I asked him how he got Carter at four. And I was like, how'd you do that? I tweeted
36:31this out. Kyle McCord went third. And I was like, that's nonsense. And he was like the Luca trade.
36:38And I was like, fair, you got me. I yeah. All right. Kyle McCord, I guess I was talking to
36:45someone over the weekend about like the NHL trade deadline coming up. And they've kind of had like
36:51this new with the four nations tournament and all this time off, like they've almost built in like
36:56an earlier trade deadline. And we were talking just, you know, what the Bruins could get for
37:01some of these guys as they start to sell. And, you know, everyone's like, Oh, you're thinking
37:05too much. Like these teams get stupid and desperate. A lot of the times, like you can get a
37:09lot more in the right situation and stuff can get really crazy. And now this comes out of nowhere,
37:15like the crazy, one of the craziest trades we've probably been alive for. So who knows?
37:22How about this? When I was doing a goofy first-round mock yesterday, that was like the
37:26Luca Donchic, anything is possible. Mock ready for this. You want a best case scenario for the
37:31Patriots cam ward one, one, the Browns need a superstar to replace miles Garrett. And I didn't
37:39even know miles Gary's getting traded yet, but it plays into this. Uh, Brown's need a super,
37:43or I guess at the time was, you know, they're just going to build up on defense. Who do you
37:46pair with Garrett? Do you pair another edge rusher or do you get a stud corner? Travis Hunter goes to
37:50Kim ward, Travis Hunter. We know the giants like sugar Sanders. He goes three Patriots suddenly
37:55getting a bunch of calls because teams are panicking and Oh no, the quarterback class
37:59is better than we thought externally. Here come the New York saints, uh, the New Orleans saints
38:04up from nine. Doesn't Jalen Miller. Oh, seem like a saints kind of quarterback.
38:08So Jalen Miller goes forward to the saints. All right. Now who's going to follow the Patriots
38:11and five, the Jaguars take either of the Michigan defenders, Mason Graham, or Will Johnson. They're
38:17going to continue to screw, uh, uh, Trevor Lawrence over as long as he's there. That's
38:21what the Jaguars do. That's at five at six, the Raiders, chip Kelly, Will Howard, you're going
38:26six overall to Las Vegas at seven guys are still falling. It's the jets. They're going to make the
38:32wrong pick Jackson dart. You're a New York jet. Uh, at eight Carolina also needs defense takes
38:38whichever Michigan defender Jacksonville didn't Mason Graham or Will Johnson. And with the ninth
38:43overall pick after getting a haul for moving down the Patriots, get Abdul Carter. How about that
38:48one? Huh? Wow. Okay. Uh, Abdul Carter and a future first. Why not tell me it can't happen.
38:56Tell me in the post Luka world, tell me it can't happen. Anything can happen. Anything can happen
39:01in the post. Somebody is going to be like, I can't believe on Guggs is going to go on Twitter
39:04bar said Jackson darts go at seventh overall. Like, yeah, that was, that was, it was a very
39:10real, a thought experiment. Well, there's our, I do think Will Howard could be a Raider,
39:15but it's not going to happen at six. It's going to happen on date. They have,
39:17don't they have two second round picks or I think they do. I think you're right.
39:22He's let me see. I have the, uh, I have the mock draft simulator pull. They have a 20.
39:30Oh wait, no, one of the 20, uh, 37
39:37add 37. I don't know. I guess not somebody, somebody, Oh, they have, they have 68 and 73,
39:44two thirds. That's it. Okay. So if he makes it there, he's going to be a Raider with chip Kelly,
39:51but it's, it's not going to be at six as fun as that would be Jackson dart at seven of the jets.
39:55I'm not rolling anything out there cause it's the jets.
39:58Who knows? Um, all right, well there's our, our, our quick basketball minute,
40:02but if you want to go see Luca play with the Lakers, if he's healthy and skinnier by March
40:108th, he'll be at TD garden and you can use game time for your tickets. A lot of, uh,
40:17good hockey events coming up at, at the garden. We have the beanpot on right now.
40:20BU is up six, one over Harvard, DC Northeastern playing after that. And then the championship
40:28will be next Monday, $70 cheapest. Get in for the game time on game time app right now.
40:35Super deal down to $120 fourth row in the garden. And that's for both games,
40:39the consolation and the championship. And then the four nations tournament is in a few weeks as
40:45well. USA, Canada playing at the garden, Marshy versus McAvoy, plenty of good games there. Or if
40:51you want to see your favorite team play anywhere else, use game time and use game time picks.
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41:29create an account and redeem code C L N S for $20 off download game time today.
41:35What time is it game time? All right. Uh, we'll wrap up with a few quick things with all those
41:41random trade discussions. I did think of one thing. Is there any player you would trade the
41:47number four overall pick for straight or maybe not straight up, but in a, in a Pat, some sort
41:52of package for like, we said maybe not miles Garrett, cause he's 29, but we're doing non
41:57quarterbacks. Micah Parsons is like 25. Is he going to want out of Dallas? Like,
42:03is there a player that you would actually feel comfortable trading that pick for?
42:07Oh, this is like players who would realistically get traded. Cause like Justin Jefferson.
42:11True. But realistic. If there's someone out there,
42:17Parsons Parsons would be interesting, especially for the way we think they're going to play defense.
42:22Uh, Parsons, I don't know anywhere. Like no, like if Jamar chase,
42:27but they're going to have, if you found out Jamar chase, wasn't going to get paid,
42:32I would trade for, for chase, uh, locked up. Yeah. He's not going anywhere.
42:41I don't know who else might be on the move. I, all right. You want a really creative one?
42:45Let's hear it. And I don't know that he's available. Would you trade,
42:51you go to the chargers and you trade for, for Joe Alt because they're playing him out of position.
42:57And do they see more value in the fourth overall pick than Joe Alt playing out of position?
43:03Cause they took him. What's six, six. So you turn six and a four.
43:07I know Harbaugh go nuts with a player like Travis Hunter.
43:12Yeah. So, or gentry Harbaugh with gentry. You see Lance Zerline had the jets taking, uh,
43:20jet seven. Cause Brees hall hasn't ran for a thousand yards. Beautiful.
43:24There's the thing. I, I, I believe the jets could do anything cause they're dumb.
43:28Uh, well here's someone who just team informed him. They will be seeking a trade, not for number
43:34four, but any interest in Cooper cup. Uh, he just tweeted. I was informed that the team will be
43:39seeking a trade immediately and we'll be working with me and my family to find the right place to
43:43continue competing for championships and went on with a couple of paragraphs. So Cooper cup
43:47is officially on the trade market. Any interest in him again, not for the fourth overall pick,
43:53but, uh, maybe some type of pick swap or, or, you know, one of those two thirds or,
43:58I don't know, what do you think Cooper cup would even go for?
44:02I don't know. Yeah, probably something like a third round pick. Maybe I guess to play that
44:07slot role. He's just, he's 31 years old. He's been dealing with injuries. I know
44:10he had a good year last year, but that's, is he still going to be an impact player by the
44:19time you're really competing by the time you're really contending? I don't think so. And there's
44:25an argument to be made for he'll help Drake may in the short term. And you know, you,
44:29you trade for him now, he gets it through the next year or two while you develop the next,
44:33like that true, you know, Drake mays long-term slot receiver security blanket.
44:39I mean, I I'm not saying no, I don't think I'd give up a top 100 pick form if it's like one Oh
44:45four, or maybe you pick swap. You moved down from 77 into the fourth. Yeah. I just, I, they don't
44:55it. And I don't think it's the age in the injury history is I'm trying to search for a better
45:00example. I want to say, you know, it screams Eric Decker to Marius Thomas to me. And I don't
45:05think he's quite that done as those guys were. Well, Thomas actually had an okay year for the
45:11jets. It just reminds me of that. It reminds me, all right, we need a wide receiver. We're
45:15going to bring this old guy in, see if there's anything left. And then there wasn't. So I'd
45:21bring them in and see what there is, but I wouldn't give up anything significant to do that.
45:24If somebody will, cause there'll be a team that's trying to win a super bowl, honestly,
45:28the bangles, right. Even if they keep Higgins put Cooper cup in the slot with those two in the,
45:32in the old Tyler Boyd role. And you're really rolling. Like if you're a year away, if you feel
45:36like you win this year and you're a piece away, yeah, you get a little reckless. You give up a
45:40day three, a day to pick for Cooper cup. So I, it doesn't really make a ton of sense to me.
45:45That would be if he was healthy and you put him next to Jamar chase,
45:49that would be a lot of fun in Cincinnati. So that, that could be a good one. They do the Rams. They
45:56picks 90, a hundred and one 26 there in the middle. So maybe there's some pick swap like 77
46:02for Cooper cup in a hundred. I don't know if that would get the job done or if they are just looking
46:08for, for straight capital and not a pick swap. They have a gap, but I don't think they're going
46:13to do that. They have a gap from 26 to 90. So they're probably looking to plug that gap in the
46:19draft with the trade there. So we'll, we'll see what happens with Cooper cup officially, officially
46:24on the trade market. So anything else to wrap this up? Did you have any last senior bowl thoughts?
46:31The game was a Saturday, just, I'll just say awesome moment for Jack bash, like catching the
46:37game when he touched a good game and good week of practices. And then as a good game,
46:42one of the top receivers and then the walk-off touchdown, everything he went through with,
46:46with his brother to, to end the week like that, just an awesome moment, but any last thoughts
46:52on the senior bowl, we might still do something with Taylor to, you know, he was down there,
46:56but he is again at super bowl week. So yeah, seriously, but any, any last thoughts there
47:04from the senior bowl on your part? No, I think that's pretty much it.
47:09All right. So we will wrap it up there. We'll be back later this week, probably Q and a,
47:15unless any news breaks that we have to talk about. And then I believe first mock draft next week,
47:21right? Post super bowl. Yes, probably Thursday. We'll do super bowl reaction show Monday or
47:26Tuesday. And then Thursday we'll do the, we'll do the draft first mock fun begins. All right.
47:33So make sure you guys follow Barth on Twitter at real Alex Barth, head over to 95, the sports hub.com
47:39to read his Patriots coverage. You can follow me on Twitter at I am Brian Heinz head over to
47:43Pat's pulpit.com for our Patriots coverage and make sure you are subscribed to Patriots press
47:48pass and wherever else you guys get your podcast. Thanks for tuning in with us tonight. And we will
47:54see you guys later this week. Bye.