The Arizona Cardinals' 30-17 win over the New England Patriots raised serious questions about the Patriots' coaching. Alex Barth and Brian Hines go live to break it down.
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SportsTranscript
00:00All right, everyone, welcome back into another live edition of the Patriots Beat Podcast
00:29here on the CLNS Media Network, presented by our wonderful friends over at PrizePix
00:35and GameTime.
00:36It's Brian Hines, back as always with Alex Barth to break down the Patriots Week 15 defeat
00:42to the Arizona Cardinals, 30 to 17.
00:45Barth, I feel like we've seen that football game a lot this year from the New England
00:51Patriots, where it's non-competitive.
00:54Drake May has some flashes on offense.
00:57Christian Gonzalez has some flashes on defense.
00:59We go to the postgame, well, we weren't there because it was a road game, but Gerard Mayo
01:03gets up to the microphone.
01:04He puts his foot in his mouth a couple times.
01:07He gets on with us Monday morning and then the radio, and he has to walk back and clarify
01:11his comments.
01:12So 30 to 17 loss, 3-11 on the year.
01:16We got three games left, which the next week against Buffalo just got flexed to 430 for
01:21whatever reason.
01:24The nation and the world needs more New England Patriots football in a more prominent hour
01:28of their lives.
01:29But that game, as always, we'll start with the coaching staff.
01:33We'll start with Gerard Mayo because he did have some of those comments that we will discuss.
01:38Where are you at with him?
01:40Because this was, you know, off the bye, let's end strong.
01:44Let's build some momentum going into the offseason.
01:47The opposite of that occurred.
01:49So where are you at with Gerard Mayo?
01:50Yeah, exactly what you just said, Brian.
01:52I mean, this whole year was about, are they better at the end than they were at the beginning?
01:58That's, that's what this whole year was about.
02:02And even if they didn't have a great start, if you showed you were building towards something,
02:07momentum heading into 2025, that's what you're selling people on.
02:11And all right.
02:12Like progress is, Rome wasn't built in a day.
02:15Progress is slow.
02:16Yeah.
02:17Maybe we only won four or five games, but Hey, look, two of those wins are in December,
02:19January, and we're, you know, trending in the right direction.
02:23This was not that.
02:24This was regression in a game that as much as any other on their schedule, they should
02:31have been able to build it.
02:32I thought the Colts game was one of their best games of the year.
02:36And then you have the bi-week, you have the extra week off.
02:38So it's like, okay, they, they, they took a step forward and the Colts game wasn't perfect
02:43by any means.
02:44It wasn't, but they took a step forward.
02:46Now you have two weeks against the team in Arizona that had lost three in a row out of
02:50their buy had not been good 18 that traditionally fades down the stretch.
02:55And it's like, all right, here's a chance to, to make a statement because the statement's
02:59not going to come in these last three games, the bills and chargers are too good.
03:05So this was their chance to pick up some of that momentum and they couldn't do it.
03:11And you know, when we, I, I'm, I still, if I'm just predicting what's going to happen
03:16with Gerard Mayo, I still don't know.
03:18I definitely think there's a much greater possibility now of him getting one and done
03:23than I did before this game.
03:25I, I, part of me still operates on like the way that he was talked about when he was hired
03:30and they didn't even have a coaching search, like that just, just lends the idea that,
03:36okay, like he'll be back.
03:37Cause they believe in him even if the results weren't there this year, but if they do make
03:43the move, this Cardinals game is going to be a big part of it because if, if it gets
03:48down to the end of the year, you know, if the year gets over and they go back and look
03:52at it, this was, this should have been the game for him and any other coach on the staff
03:57to point to and say, we were making progress, like, let us keep going.
04:01We were making progress.
04:03And that progress wasn't there in this game based on the way they performed based on the
04:08way they were prepared with an extra week.
04:11I find it tough to see if that progress is coming, uh, in the, against these next three
04:17games, two opponents, whatever you want to call it.
04:20So we'll see what, I mean, we'll see, we'll see, but this was, if Gerard Mayo is one and
04:25done, I think this game in particular is going to be one you look back at as a driving reason
04:31why that happened.
04:32Yeah.
04:33Yeah.
04:34I mean, you said it, we've said it a lot this year and you said it again there at the, at
04:37the start, like this whole year was building.
04:41We knew the record wasn't going to be great with the roster.
04:44They have the talent they have after, you know, going forward 13 last year, even adding
04:49Drake to this, we knew it wasn't going to be a playoff contender all of a sudden, but
04:54you wanted to improve as the season goes on.
04:57And that hasn't happened.
04:59They're still making these same mistakes that they were making earlier in the season.
05:03And you know, no matter what the talent level is, if you look unprepared and it's these
05:07simple things that are getting messed up, that comes back to Gerard Mayo and the coaching,
05:12especially off the by with that extra week of preparation.
05:16So that's been kind of the most disappointing thing is just that it's the same things that
05:22are happening over and over and over again, that aren't getting corrected, whether it's
05:25in game or whether you have, you know, you reset during the week and you say, okay, let's
05:30fix these, these, these, and go down that checklist, those that that's not really happening.
05:35So I would still operate that Gerard Mayo is getting another year.
05:43We heard, I think over the weekend, like Diana Russini and her notebook said like Kraft was
05:48giving some reassurances behind the scenes that Mayo would be back.
05:52Schefter was on Pat McAfee this morning and kind of made it sound like, you know, Kraft
05:58wanted to give him a Mayo another year as well, but these are the type of performances
06:03that maybe could give them some pause, right?
06:06You saw.
06:07And to be fair, it was like a four second cutaway after a five yard loss, but they did
06:13not look happy.
06:14Jonathan and Robert Kraft in the owner's suite up there watching that game yesterday.
06:18You know, I'm not a professional lip reader, but it looks like they're talking about something
06:22about play calling.
06:23And now you look ahead, you have two games against the Buffalo Bills and we were just
06:28talking before we came on like that week 18 game with Patrick Mahomes getting hurt.
06:34If the chiefs lose one or two down the stretch here, Buffalo could be playing for the one
06:38seed so they could be playing their starters week 18 and with the way Josh Allen has been
06:43playing, who knows how ugly those are going to get.
06:46And then you have a charger who, you know, really good defense.
06:50Justin Herbert's besides yesterday was playing good football and they're kind of fighting
06:54for their own playoff spot too.
06:56So the last three weeks it could get pretty ugly as well.
07:01So do you think it would be, would you want the crafts if they went into this Cardinals
07:05game saying, we're going to kind of roll with Gerard, we want to give them another shot.
07:10Would you want them to, you know, let their decision be impacted by four games there?
07:15Or do you think it would be fair if that those four games look really bad based off, you
07:19know, the first 13 before that, like it would be fair of them to kind of pull the switch
07:23after one and done here.
07:25Um, I, well, it's not just about the four games, right?
07:29If they, if they had had a solid season and came out with, with that game, I wouldn't
07:34be sitting here saying that game's a fireball offense on it.
07:37Cause it's not on its own.
07:38It would be weird.
07:39I'd still be criticizing the coaching, but it's, it's, you know, stat it's the latest
07:47in the long line of examples, right?
07:48This was supposed to be the game that turned the tide coming into this game.
07:54And I get asked this a lot.
07:56I don't know about you, Brian.
07:57I get asked a lot.
07:58What's the argument for keeping him?
08:00Not in a prediction sense, the argument of prediction sense is Robert Kraft seems to
08:05genuinely like him and believe in him and why he is, you'd have to ask him that.
08:11Like he, and he talked about it and just the, the people, person skills and that he talked
08:16about that back in January.
08:17Right.
08:18I don't know.
08:19Um, but that's the argument for why are they going to keep him if we're doing the prediction
08:24game?
08:25Why?
08:26What, what's the football reason for it?
08:29And it was supposed to be, well, they started building momentum late in the year and this
08:34was the game to do that and they didn't do it.
08:37And his defense, that would be the other thing, right?
08:39Like he's a defensive guy.
08:41If that defense that was top 10 in football last year continued on that kind of same trajectory,
08:46right?
08:47They would have killed that defense.
08:49Then that obviously has fallen off a cliff now, even though they had had Christian Gonzalez
08:54all year, they got your bill peppers back recently.
08:56They got Christian bar more back recently and that defense has still kind of fallen
09:01off.
09:02I will say like it does seem, or maybe not after yesterday, did you think the players
09:08were still playing hard yesterday?
09:09Cause that, that's one thing you could point to if you still think there's buy-in in the
09:14locker room and they're still playing hard for Gerard.
09:16So did you, I know it's tough for us to sit here and kind of question effort level, but
09:21did you think you still saw some buy-in from those guys yesterday?
09:25It's tough, especially when you're not like there, it just tracks different in person.
09:28I mean, certainly from some guys, the running backs ran hard, a hundred of 118 yards came
09:33after contact according to PFF.
09:36You know, I think you saw it from some Gonzalez obviously played his ass off.
09:40Like are there some guys that you may be getting lesser than from, yeah, you see it in the
09:46tackling effort.
09:47You see it in the line of scrimmage.
09:48It's also hard to tell.
09:49Cause like Vidarian low gets blown by twice in two plays early in that game.
09:55And that was a big sequence.
09:56Is that a lack of effort thing or like, cause we, that's just sort of who Vidarian low is.
10:01And then you go to the, the roster talent of it all.
10:04I guess if you're going to talk about that, I'd go to the Keishon booty comment after
10:09the game talking about Drake Mays throw being low hitch in both hands, like read the field,
10:14sit down in the zone.
10:16I would go more to that than maybe anything we saw on the field.
10:20And we can get into booty later.
10:22I'm done with him on the field.
10:24Like he he's given you nothing on the field, but we'll talk about him with, with the offense
10:29a little bit later.
10:30But with Gerard, I did, and maybe some of these potential changes that, that could happen.
10:35I did want to, you know, talk about the infamous five words in his postgame press conference
10:40that really was the talking point the last 24 hours here.
10:46And he was asked, we had that, excuse me.
10:49We had that sequence, you know, to start the second half, they finally put together somewhat
10:53of a good drive.
10:54They worked down to the red area, third and one run up the middle, get stuffed fourth
10:59and one.
11:00They go for it, run up the middle, get stuffed again.
11:03He was asked Mayo after the game, if that would be an area where they would consider
11:07using Drake Mays legs, right?
11:09Like we've talked a lot about that, getting the design quarterback run game.
11:13Anytime we ask Alex Van Pelt about it, that is the exact kind of scenario that he lays
11:19out that they would be willing to do it right.
11:21Like short yardage, important play down near the goal line.
11:24Like that is the blueprint for one.
11:26You think they would do this and they haven't been, they've been reluctant to do so.
11:30So someone asked Mayo that he said, you said it, I didn't.
11:35That was it.
11:36A few questions later, someone followed up and he came back and he said, it's always
11:40my decision.
11:41I would say the quarterback obviously has a good pair of legs and does a good job running
11:45the ball.
11:46We just choose, we just chose not to do it there.
11:49He was obviously asked about that this morning, kind of walked it back.
11:54He said it was a defensive response.
11:56He was just trying to clarify what the followup question, you know, reiterated that the decisions
12:00are his.
12:01They have these quarterback runs.
12:03If they want to call them, they just haven't called it yet.
12:07So what were your kind of thoughts on that comment?
12:11He also said like, it's all good with him and Van Pelt.
12:14He 100% backs Van Pelt.
12:17He had a conversation with him this morning about the comments and Van Pelt didn't even
12:21know what he was talking about.
12:23So what did you think when you kind of heard that exchange yesterday and then his follow
12:27up this morning with those comments that, you know, looks like, and you can easily make
12:32it out.
12:33That kind of seems like he's calling out his offensive coordinator there.
12:36So look, I've come on here after what are we calling these Mayo isms, whatever they
12:41are, the calling team soft, the when, once they crossed the white line, all those, right.
12:47And I've, I think it's been taken as a defense.
12:51That's not always the intention.
12:53It's just my way of discussing it.
12:54Like, oh, well, you know, I get what he's saying.
12:56He shouldn't have said it, but I get what he's saying.
12:58You're like, oh, when you add the context, it's not as bad this way.
13:01I have no idea where the hell that came from.
13:04I think of all of the press conference gaffes that he's had this year, I think this is the
13:10worst one.
13:11And I don't think it's particularly close like that.
13:14I even had to have it like it took me a minute to register, like why everybody was talking
13:20about that being him throwing Van Pelt under the bus is it was just an odd comment.
13:25It just felt very reactionary and, um, it's just not great.
13:32It's not a great look.
13:33It's not.
13:34So that one, if I'm him and I could have one of these back this year, that's the one, no
13:40question.
13:41That was not good.
13:42Yeah.
13:43And that's like, just speaking with Gerard, I know it's his first year on the job, but
13:47how often do we hear throughout the summer earlier in the season?
13:50Like you don't want to be an error repeater on the field and he just keeps, you know,
13:54stepping in it.
13:55Well, it's also, it is his first year and I get that.
13:58And I do think that there was a learning process for him with the media early on, but at the
14:03same time, it's a cliche in the NFL.
14:07You get to this time of year, there are no rookies.
14:10And I think that applies to coaches as well.
14:12Definitely.
14:13So did that make you, you know, I think we've kind of, let me just, sorry, let me just add
14:19to this.
14:20And maybe this is what you're about to ask, but I just want to make this point too.
14:23I, I, although, like I just said, that's the worst press conference F up he's had.
14:31I think people are making too big of a deal of it.
14:33And what I mean by that is if they were winning, it would just be some goofy thing he said
14:39and nobody would care.
14:41Right.
14:42And what he's saying in the press conferences, you can argue, maybe it has an impact on team
14:46morale, but it's not the driving force behind why they're losing.
14:50It's not even the driving force behind the coaching issues that are impacting this team
14:54right now.
14:55Like Joe Missoula goes up there and says, wacky stuff at the press conference.
14:59And we just kind of laugh it off because the Celtics are a wagon.
15:02If they were winning, I wouldn't care.
15:04And I just feel like that's kind of been presented today as like a primary issue with the team.
15:14Call a play.
15:15That'll get you yard on third and fourth and one, instead of running right behind your
15:18rookie left guard, who's proven to struggle twice in a row, right?
15:23Don't get called for penalty on the opening drive of the game.
15:25When you're actually building momentum, get lined up so you don't have to burn it before
15:29the third and fourth.
15:30And once you have to burn a timeout and let the Cardinals kind of get rested and get their
15:34legs back on.
15:36These all rank ahead of what he said at the press conference, I understand why we're talking
15:40about it.
15:41I do think it's relevant.
15:42I do understand why it's talked about.
15:45That's not the reason though, for the product on the field, there are tangible coaching
15:50issues.
15:51Like you talked about the defense, they're getting kind of cut up, up and down, especially
15:54key moments in the game that reflects on dried Mayo.
15:57I care a lot more about that than what he's saying at the press conference.
16:03Definitely.
16:05On the play call the fourth and one, like I'm not someone who says like, we need to
16:10run Drake may double digit times a game, especially in this season.
16:14You're not making the playoffs.
16:16There's three weeks left.
16:17The best thing you can do is get Drake may out of here, healthy and ending on a positive
16:22note.
16:23But like, I don't think it would hurt one or two, especially in those spots again, that
16:28Alex Van Pelt I've always said, or even just the threat of it, right?
16:32Like the one time they kind of threatened it.
16:35They had a, the Antonio Gibson big run, right?
16:38Like they, they kind of have that look like it could be a zone option and make a, keep
16:43it.
16:44And the backside edge was unblocked.
16:46He just takes like one little false step thinking maybe Drake's going to keep this ball.
16:50And then that's enough for Antonio Gibson to break 29 yards.
16:54So, you know, people say like fourth and one, you should be able to get a yard.
16:58I get that.
16:59But also the offensive line is the weakest part of this team and they just got stuffed
17:03third and one, like why not put the ball in Drake's hands or the threat of Drake may skill
17:08set in that situation.
17:11And maybe that'll, you know, lead to better results.
17:14So with that, and I know you just said those comments, you know, maybe not as big of a
17:19deal to you than what's going on on the field, but does it impact maybe you're standing for
17:25Alex Van Pelt going forward?
17:27I know we've both been on here saying, you know, he's done a lot of good stuff with,
17:31with Drake may.
17:32It seems like the offense has been improving.
17:34Like honestly, he's maybe been one of their better coaches.
17:37I would say this year, but do you think that maybe there is a disconnect with Mayo and
17:42then Pelt there, you know, even going back earlier in the season, you know, maybe they
17:47were indifferent about, you know, starting Drake may and Drake mays timeline and you
17:51know, stuff like that.
17:52Do you think that does that comment maybe give you a little pause about Van Pelt being
17:58back next year and the crafts talking, you know, lip reading experts talking about offensive
18:02play calling is terrible.
18:04I mean, it would be a shame, excuse me.
18:10I I'd hate to see Van Pelt and up the fall guy in this and like Mayo stays and it's a
18:15new offensive coordinator.
18:16I think you're spinning your tires there again, Van Pelt hasn't been this like unbelievable
18:21offense coordinator, but I think the job he's done with personnel he's been given earned
18:25him a second year.
18:26Now, if you're telling me to bring in a new head coach and the new head coach wants his
18:29own offense coordinator, like that's another conversation.
18:33But if it's Mayo stays, Van Pelt goes, I think that would be a mistake.
18:38I could see them having disagreements though.
18:40I totally could.
18:41Like, like you said, when it came to starting Drake may, it felt like maybe there were some
18:45disagreements there and the, the reaction, uh, I think what it, what, what did Gerard
18:51Mayo call it this morning when he was asked about it, a, uh, what was the term he used?
18:55Do you remember when asked about his quote?
18:58Yeah.
19:00I know Mike Reese had it, uh, called it a defensive response, right?
19:07The defensive response from Gerard Mayo.
19:09Like that's a kind of gut.
19:10It tells me that question maybe hit a nerve about whether or not to run Drake may.
19:15So yeah, I absolutely could see that there's a disagreement there.
19:18Yep.
19:19Again though, it's tough because it does really feel like Alex Van Pelt has been one of their
19:23better coaches this year and that I would argue it's him or Scott Peters has been the
19:27best coach on the staff and that's maybe a problem within itself because even that
19:31hasn't been great, but, and it, but in, in some ways, even if Peters is the best coach,
19:37like some of that just goes to Van Pelt.
19:39So, um, again, like if, if Ben Johnson's like, you know what, I don't want to be a head coach,
19:43but I want to go coordinate an offense for Drake made and like, yeah, drop everything.
19:46Sure.
19:47I'm not saying he's untouchable, but the defense, the defense is the bigger issue.
19:53So if, if you're telling me Mayo and Covington are staying in Van Pelt's the fall guy, that's
19:58tough.
19:59Right.
20:00Are you going to get an upgrade?
20:01If that's the move I, you might not, you remember like Van Pelt was how many guys did they interview
20:07before Van Pelt of 12 or last year?
20:09Was it 12?
20:10Was it that many?
20:11I thought it was like eight.
20:12I thought they hit double digits.
20:14Did they?
20:15Wow.
20:16Okay.
20:17I sure.
20:19Like I, I, I think I'm not saying he's earned a lifetime contract again.
20:24I can't stress that enough.
20:26Has he earned one more year?
20:27Yeah.
20:28And if he's the one they move on from, I think that that's short sighted, especially just,
20:35I feel like he deserves maybe a chance to show it with better personnel too, right?
20:41That's basically what I'm saying.
20:42Yeah.
20:43Yeah.
20:44I think the stuff he's shown this year and the work he's done with Drake may out of everyone
20:50on the, like he did, he deserves another shot with better players, better personnel.
20:53And then as you said, not saying he needs to be tied to Drake Mays hip for the rest
20:58of his career.
20:59I think we've talked about that a lot earlier in the year.
21:01Like maybe Drake may outgrows Alex Van Pelt at some point along the line here, it needs
21:06a more, you know, exotic, diverse play caller or creative.
21:12That's a good word.
21:13Like along the lines, but you know, going on, on year two, uh, he, he deserves another
21:19shot.
21:20I was trying to pull up their, uh, coordinator tracker list.
21:23I couldn't find a good one.
21:25See how many they did bring in here.
21:27Look, it was a lot plain and simple.
21:30It was a lot.
21:31And, and that tells you, I think, you know, for, for what the search was, I remember people
21:36being, I don't want to say upset, but let down by the names he heard and Van Pelt came
21:40out of nowhere.
21:42I think we were live.
21:43Right.
21:44And we didn't even know that they'd interviewed him.
21:46Um, 12, that was that it was 12.
21:49Okay.
21:5012.
21:51Yeah.
21:52And when we were live, I remember that.
21:53Yeah.
21:54Like for, for, for how that search went, they, they did fine.
21:57It certainly could have gone a lot worse.
21:59Yeah.
22:00So there was Nick Caley, Zach Robinson, Dan pitcher who stayed with Cincinnati.
22:06Yeah.
22:07Shane Waldron, which that was a mess when he went to Chicago.
22:10Uh, Gerard Johnson, the Texans.
22:13Yeah, it was my guy.
22:14I liked him.
22:15Quarterback coach.
22:16Did he stay in Houston?
22:17I think so.
22:18Cause he stayed with, uh, yeah, I think he's their passing game coordinator to, uh, yeah,
22:26he's still with the Texans.
22:27Thomas Brown, who is now the bears interim head coach, uh, Tanner Engstrand, who's the
22:33lions like passing game coordinator.
22:36Ryan flurry.
22:37Who's the Niners tight ends coach Luke Getsy, who also got fired, uh, Clint Kubiak.
22:44He stayed and I'm pretty sure he, Oh no, he's with the saints.
22:48Oh yeah.
22:49He got the OC job in the same, right.
22:50Cause he was from Sam.
22:51He came from San Francisco.
22:52Yeah.
22:53Yeah.
22:54Uh, Scott Turner, who I think is still in Vegas with just like a vague job.
23:01And then he is the interim offense coordinator for the Raiders.
23:05That's it.
23:07So yeah, then Pelt was 12.
23:08I would say Kubiak obviously would have been great.
23:13Although that, that offense has kind of fallen off, but Kubiak was good in new Orleans before
23:18everybody got hurt besides him.
23:22Not counting the guys who stayed, the guys who took new jobs, where would you rank van
23:28Pelt?
23:29It's like Zach Robinson, Shane Waldron Robinson stay.
23:34No, he went to, uh, Atlanta.
23:37Oh, that's right.
23:38That's right.
23:39I mean, Getsy and Waldron got fired, so they're out, uh, Thomas Brown.
23:46It's kind of tough because he was like passing game coordinator and then he was an interim
23:50coordinator for like two weeks and now he's an interim head coach.
23:54So it's really, you know, Zach Robinson and van Pelt, right?
24:00Those are the only, or Kubiak van Pelt.
24:04And I'd say with Kubiak and Robinson, both of them, the two of the best offense in the
24:07league through the first month.
24:09And then they've both fallen off.
24:11I mean, Kirk Cousins might get benched.
24:13Zach Robinson might get the big free agent signing quarterback benched here that could
24:18happen tonight.
24:19The Saints had a bunch of injuries and it still looks good schematically with Kubiak.
24:23I, Kubiak's probably the best of that group, but I mean, van Pelt, I'd say van Pelt's better
24:30than the majority of the guys on that list end up being a better hire than the majority
24:34of the guys on that list probably would have been.
24:36Yep.
24:37I think the most intriguing ones are the guys who stayed honestly.
24:40That's yeah.
24:41I mean, the guys who stayed, those were the, but they stayed because they know that they
24:44are quality hires and they're not going to rush and they want to make sure they end up
24:48in the right spot.
24:49And that's why they stayed.
24:50Yep.
24:51Same reason with the head coaches.
24:52That's why Ben Johnson stayed.
24:54Definitely.
24:55All right.
24:56Uh, anything else?
24:58Any other coaching staff thoughts there or anything else with Mayo?
25:02I think that's pretty much it.
25:04All right.
25:05Uh, let's get into a little bit of the game.
25:08And before we do that, I want to tell you guys about prize picks where you just pick
25:11more or less on at least two players for a shot to win up to 1000 times your cash on
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25:40Uh, we have two Monday night games tonight.
25:43You just said, uh, the Falcons are playing.
25:45So Falcons or Falcons taking on the Raiders, Desmond Ritter revenge game.
25:50And then we have bears Vikings in the NFC North, uh, to start earlier.
25:55So lots of action for teams to put, put in your prize picks lineups tonight.
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26:05first $5 lineup.
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26:14run your game.
26:15All right.
26:16Uh, you want to start with that defense or Drake man, the offense, any, any, um, I guess
26:23we usually start with the offense.
26:25We can start with the offense.
26:26Offense.
26:27All right.
26:28Um, 17 points, you know, it took really till garbage time there at the end to get to a
26:34late touchdowns.
26:35Oh, for six on third down.
26:38A lot of that I think had to stem from the offensive line.
26:41We'll, we'll talk about the lone bright spot and Drake and maybe the running backs too,
26:45the offensive line, especially the left side with the Darien Lowe, as we talked about,
26:50uh, Leighton Robinson again, wasn't great.
26:53Ben Brown.
26:54I think we jinxed Ben Brown on the preview show, how, how good he's been and his snaps
27:00and everything, because his, uh, PFF pass blocking grade was 0.0 yesterday and he had
27:06two bad snaps.
27:07So the offensive line, uh, kind of a disaster there.
27:11Does that open the door?
27:12Do you think for Cole strange to work in, uh, to the lineup who wasn't ready to go?
27:16He wasn't active, uh, on the game day roster yesterday, but do you think that opens the
27:21door for Cole strange to get in here the last three weeks?
27:24Yeah, probably.
27:25Look, you know, I, I said last week, I'd like to keep Ben Brown for the continuity.
27:28I stand by that.
27:29But if he can't get the ball back to the quarterback, there's no point in having him in the lineup.
27:34I, and I think coach staff got what they want.
27:36Now look, Lane Robinson did not have a good game either.
27:39And that's covered up because you don't see it.
27:41Like you see the bad snaps, but he gets blown up big time on, I forget which one it was
27:46on one of those third, fourth and ones.
27:48He did get beat on the other, not as cleanly, but he did, um, so it's a pick them, but I,
27:55they clearly want them at center and they clearly want Lane Robinson in the lineup.
27:58So I think we see Cole strange at center next week.
28:01Yeah.
28:02Layton was the third and one he got beat easily.
28:05He also had the hold on the first drive that negated, uh, you know, 15 yard gain on third
28:12down.
28:13And then, you know, that leads to the field goal that they missed.
28:14He also, he should've got called for another hold on one of the Gibson's other runs, but
28:18they didn't call it.
28:19So still not great there.
28:21They really, you know, Cole strange can fill in one of those two.
28:24They don't have a backup tackle.
28:26They go into these games with like city.
28:30So as their backup tackle, unless they're going to kick Mike and when you out and move
28:35trade Jacobs over, like they really can't do anything about the dairy and low.
28:38And, you know, he wasn't great again yesterday, you know, he had those back-to-back plays,
28:42the run stuff.
28:43And then he gave up the sack, which, you know, I thought Trey may was almost going to strip
28:47sack again with how that's been going, but he held on to the football.
28:51So they really don't have anything they can do about the dairy and low, unless Caden Wallace
28:55goes to right and they move trade Jacobs over to the left or God forbid, they just put Caden
29:00Wallace back at left tackle, which I hope they don't do at this point.
29:04Yeah, it's the offensive line still is just, you know, the Achilles heel kind of of this
29:09offense.
29:10And you saw that again yesterday.
29:11Yeah.
29:12It's it.
29:13They just don't have the personnel.
29:15And for all we talked about coaching at the end of the day, they don't have the talent
29:17to run some of this stuff.
29:19So I'm with you.
29:20There's nothing can do about low.
29:22The tackle problem remains.
29:24Now the guy that they probably should have been more invested in, in the off season,
29:27he scored a touchdown yesterday because of course he did, because it's exactly how the
29:31season is gone.
29:34But that was perfect.
29:36It really was even before I was, you know, watching a game with a buddy and I see a Cardinals
29:42lineman jump on the ball and they originally called it out of pounds.
29:45And I just go, that's that.
29:50I was like, that's going to be in bounds and it's, it's, it's going to be him.
29:54Like it's going to be, why am I blanking on his name?
29:56Jonah Williams.
29:57Jonah Williams.
29:59That's in and it's showing Williams and he's going to get a touchdown because of course
30:02he is, um, where was Chuks core for meanwhile, yesterday?
30:07We don't know, but yeah, it was, they, they just don't, they don't want the bodies.
30:11They don't know horses up front and it showed up again.
30:14Yup.
30:15And it's clearly impacting their game plan.
30:17Cause again, and we can go to drink may all underneath, right?
30:21Like his average depth of target in the first half was negative.
30:25I think he threw seven, seven or eight passes at, or behind the line of scrimmage.
30:30None more than five yards downfield in the first year.
30:32And to his credit, he was money.
30:34He was 17 of 17 under 10 yards, 10 air yards.
30:40But you just see how that kind of restrict, you know, puts the restrictions on this offense.
30:45They come out first play of the second half play action shot.
30:49He probably shouldn't have thrown it to booty, but I think he was probably just like, F this,
30:53we need to air it out.
30:54I'm going to Chuck it down there at the booty.
30:56He ended up throwing six passes over 10 yards.
30:59He only completed two of them.
31:00He sailed one.
31:01He had one bad mess to booty on that kind of crosser where he rolled out of the pocket
31:05to his right and missed them, but a accurate 80% completion, over 80% completion for the
31:11second straight game.
31:13You're still seeing, you know, the good stuff underneath.
31:16They can't get that deep passing game unlocked though, partly due to the offensive line,
31:20due to the receivers.
31:21He did have the one beauty to Kendrick Bourne kind of late in the game.
31:25No turnover worthy plays second straight week.
31:28He's done that as well.
31:30He did have the interception, which was off kind of booty's hands there.
31:34But what'd you think of Drake's game as a whole there yesterday?
31:38I thought for what the game was, he probably did as, as well as he can again, they were
31:45very limited.
31:46I, you know, it was a general conservativeness from Alex and pal as probably part of it.
31:50I also think they saw what the offensive line was very low, gets blown by twice early on
31:55and just for like, we're not going to be able to block it.
31:57These guys aren't going to have time to get down the field and, and kept it locked in.
32:00But for what that was, like you said, didn't put the ball in harm's way.
32:04Had one spray miss on that play.
32:06He's rolling right.
32:07He had Kate, Sean booty.
32:08Haven't seen a spray from him in a few weeks.
32:10They were a bigger problem early on.
32:12You look at it, you just kind of hope like, all right, you know, they're going to happen
32:16here and there.
32:17Just don't let it become regular again.
32:19But for what it was, he was fine.
32:21You know, the, the big, bigger place in garbage time, like you said, I'm not drooling over
32:25that game, but I don't think he was, I don't think he was good or bad.
32:29He was just kind of there.
32:30Yep.
32:31Do you hope these last three weeks they kind of play and they might have to, cause they
32:38might be trailing, but they, how they, they play more like they did in the fourth quarter
32:42of letting, putting the ball in kind of Drake's hands.
32:46And I know like the, they might be terrified of just blocking for him, but do you, do you
32:51hope they kind of just open it up and let, let Drake cook and let Drake kind of compete,
32:56like keep them in these games down the stretch instead of these, you know, short efficient
33:01under 10 yard passes where you kind of have to March these long drives together and you
33:06see like the longer they're on the field, something bad is going to happen with a penalty
33:11and you know, kind of shoot themselves in the foot.
33:13So do you hope they kind of play more like they did late and let Drake kind of air it
33:16out or is the offensive line just really going to restrict them that much?
33:20Yeah.
33:22I think it'd be great to kind of let Drake may open it up against these elite defenses
33:24and get them the experience.
33:25I think they will to an extent, but the last thing you need is him getting hurt right now.
33:28So I, I wouldn't go too over the top with it.
33:32All right.
33:33Uh, the only other bright spot I really had on offense was the running backs.
33:37It was a good game from Ramond Ray ran well, uh, Antonio Gibson only played 16 snaps, but
33:43he broke 11 total tackles, had three gains of, of 10 plus yards.
33:47Uh, he's still one of their most explosive playmakers.
33:50So I'd like to see more of him still, still doing down the stretch, uh, anything from
33:54them or the receivers, tight ends from that skill position yesterday.
34:00I like, like you said earlier on Keyshawn booty, that was kind of my big takeaways.
34:03Like he had that little surge midway through the season.
34:06It was great.
34:07I don't know.
34:08Yeah.
34:09I mean, he'll be, look, he'll be back next year in camp and we'll see.
34:13And I'm sure there will be people that will point to those games and say he's an option,
34:16but he's, he's nothing like I I'm not counting on him for anything more than like maybe he's
34:22that fifth or sixth guy that you're kind of mixing in every once in a while to just give
34:26a different look.
34:27Like they, uh, tomorrow Douglas should be part of what your, your base set and 11s Kendrick
34:33Bourne can be, he's a player that can be upgraded, but you know, he's kind of right on that line.
34:40That's it.
34:41I don't think you're counting on Jalen Polk to be a regular part of the offense, which
34:43sucks as a second.
34:45You know, it's unfortunate that your second round pick a year in, you're writing them
34:50off already.
34:51But when you look at the numbers and you look at the historical context of guys that start
34:54like this, they generally don't turn it around.
34:56Jayvon Baker is a total wild card.
34:58He may not be on the team next year, honestly.
35:01Um, so you, you're looking for one, if not two more guys in that base 11 personnel in
35:06the wide receiver room.
35:07I don't think Keyshawn booty's an answer there.
35:09Yeah.
35:10I like to make it seem like we're picking on Polk, but like, it feels like you can almost
35:14write him in every week for 20 snaps, one target and zero catches.
35:18That's just what it, what it is now.
35:20Like that's been a trend these last few weeks and are really seasoned.
35:25And at this point, like he would be a complete total outlier if he turns it around and has,
35:30you know, a solid NFL career, uh, at that wide range.
35:33I mean, look like what are his numbers for the year again, do you have them in front
35:37of you?
35:38I think like 12, just kind of reading it off 12 catches.
35:42Uh, he has 12 catches for 87 yards and two touchdowns.
35:48That is still half of Nikhil Harry's most productive season stuff.
35:57So yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, he's got, he's got two catches for nine yards since Halloween.
36:08So yes, yeah.
36:09It would be an outlier at this point if he, uh, can turn it around to targets since Halloween
36:15to targets and all, Hey, he's catching a hundred percent of his time.
36:18Nice.
36:19Sorry.
36:20Three target.
36:21Oh no.
36:22I was reading that I was in the wrong column.
36:23He has a bunch of targets in solid three, four, five, six, seven, nine targets in solid
36:26two for nine, maybe two for nine.
36:29Um, so yeah, who, who knows what, what that's going to look like, uh, with booty though,
36:34like he was, they completed both.
36:38I tweeted this this morning, they completed him in may, they connected on their first
36:42two deep shots.
36:43You know, the one in Houston at the end of the half, he had the one, the following week
36:46in London against Jacksonville and they're over eight cents in their last six games.
36:51And I get it.
36:52Like he's not an outside receiver.
36:54That's kind of where he has to play, but he's just not giving you anything.
36:59The one target he's open, he ends up basically lateral in it to the defense for an interception.
37:05He's wearing coverage, uh, on the outside.
37:06Then he goes in the locker room after, and he says it's disrespectful that the Cardinals
37:10were playing man coverage in the first quarter.
37:13Like why do you think they were playing man coverage?
37:16Maybe because they're not worried about Patriots top wide receiver in terms of stack count,
37:20uh, beating them in man coverage and that's case on booty.
37:23So I'm at the point where if Jayvon Baker is out of concussion protocol and healthy,
37:29these last three weeks, just, just play him.
37:31I know it's, it's not going to be pretty probably either.
37:34He's going to have some issues, but you're getting issues with Keisha on booty.
37:37So why not just see what you have in Jayvon Baker out there at his more natural position
37:42to at the X on the outside and just see what you have in Jayvon Baker over these last three
37:47games.
37:48If he wants to, if he's healthy and ready to go out, yeah, I'm with you.
37:51I just don't think the coaching staff trust putting them on the field right now, which
37:54is unfortunate because the guy they are putting out there isn't giving you much anyway.
37:58So, um, any last thoughts there on the offense or, uh, we can turn it over to what's maybe
38:06even worse on the defensive side of the ball.
38:10Uh, just, uh, the running backs ran hard.
38:13I kind of talked about earlier, most of their yards coming after contact.
38:16I, it's kind of like early in the year where they created in spite of the offensive line
38:20Antonio Gibson continues to look really good.
38:22You want to talk about one guy that's building momentum into 2025 it's Gibson, um, and he
38:27should have a bigger role here over these last three games.
38:30Definitely.
38:31All right.
38:32Before we go over to the defense very quickly, I just want to talk to you guys about game
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40:19What time is it game time?
40:22All right.
40:22Uh, going over to the defense.
40:27Wasn't pretty, uh, again, 30 points allowed Cardinals.
40:30Just felt like they could get anything they wanted on the ground game, even though, you
40:34know, take out the 56 yard run, the numbers, you know, look pretty solid there.
40:39All right.
40:39Just on that real quick.
40:40Even if we are going to do that exercise, which no, the run happened, it was a major
40:44play in the game.
40:44You can't take it out, but for the sake of the exercise, Cardinals running back still
40:49combined average four yards per carry.
40:50That's not a ton, but that's pretty solid.
40:54You take that.
40:55Yeah.
40:55It's still not very good.
40:57Even when you take that right.
40:59If you take it out, it was, and even with the run, it kind of felt like the Colts game
41:05where they're not, you know, breaking off these lawn runs consistently, but they're
41:09just picking up five, six, five, six, four, seven yards.
41:14And they're keeping their offense ahead of schedule.
41:16And that's what, you know, killed the Patriots.
41:18They gave up 10 third downs.
41:19The Cardinals went 10 of 15, uh, on third down.
41:22Most of those were, you know, third, medium, third, and short.
41:25Cause they had that run game going.
41:26So they were easy conversion.
41:27So, uh, they, they killed them and that's, you know, seems to be one of the most
41:32disappointing things with the Patriots defense is like all year in the red area
41:37on third down, like they just can't get off the field when they need it the most.
41:42And, you know, a lot of it seems to be like the veteran players too.
41:47Like Kyle Duggar, another, not a great game.
41:49Jelani Tavai, Jabril Peppers taking bad pursuit angles, you know, giving up, he
41:54was on the scene for that big run.
41:55So it's some of the veterans.
41:57Uh, and that to me is like one of the most disappointing things with this
42:00defense kind of throughout the year.
42:01And you saw it again there in Arizona.
42:04Yeah.
42:04It's the, the, the situational stuff, you know, struggling late cause that was, it
42:10didn't feel like a game cause we've watched this team all year and we kind of
42:13know how they operate late in games, but that was a game relatively late and the
42:17defense couldn't get a key stop when it needed to, there's no semblance of a
42:20pass rush, this was another game.
42:22I think Brian, you were the one who made this reference after the Jaguars
42:26game where they didn't get a hit on Trevor Lawrence, you can send the
42:29Jersey back to the pro shop and nobody would know the difference.
42:31It's another one of those games.
42:32Didn't get a hit on Kyler Murray.
42:34Um, didn't really pressure him.
42:35And I know he's mobile, but it, it PFF had them down for seven pressures,
42:40which is watching the game felt high and outside of Gonzalez.
42:44They're just, there aren't a lot of answers right now.
42:47Yeah.
42:48I mean, they, you mentioned it kind of was a game.
42:50Like they scored Pat's, excuse me, Pat scored the touchdown.
42:54They were down 13 with eight minutes left.
42:57So if you get a three and out, right?
42:59Like you get some momentum and then the Cardinals go nine plays, 70 yards,
43:03they kill almost five minutes o'clock.
43:06And then it's pretty much over at that point now in the coffin, you're
43:09down 20 with five minutes left.
43:11So, uh, tough, the, the situations, it just hasn't been there all year.
43:16You did mention, uh, Christian Gonzalez.
43:18He is the one bright spot on defense, uh, throughout the year.
43:22He really put the clamps on Marvin Harrison jr.
43:26Uh, throughout the game, he had a couple of pass breakups in the end zone.
43:29Just, you know, textbook, perfect coverage, playing the hands,
43:33uh, getting in there tight coverage.
43:34He even had one, like he got beat on the early pick route.
43:38And then they came, they tried to run it again later and he was
43:41just in Marvin Harrison's pocket.
43:43So awesome game from him.
43:44We saw a little bit of that corner rotation too, with Alex Austin knows a
43:48Bolden, uh, did you like that?
43:50And did you like, obviously you like Gonzalez's game and what
43:54you see from the secondary.
43:55Gonzalez was excellent.
43:56Gonzalez was, I mean, that's, that's high level.
43:59And by the way, and not that Marvin Harrison's bad, he faced a great corner,
44:04but where are all the, don't take a quarterback.
44:06You have to take MHA.
44:08Oh, he's generational.
44:09I don't know.
44:09We have passed on a guy like that.
44:11I don't care what you need.
44:12Uh, saying that the Drake may pick was obvious.
44:18Uh, took too many calls, too many questions on Marvin Harrison
44:21jr.
44:22For that pick we called.
44:23It was obvious.
44:25Too many to me, too many.
44:26You, uh, sorry.
44:27The pick was obvious.
44:27It was Drake man.
44:28Not to everybody, not to a significant portion of the fan base who wanted
44:32their shiny new toy wide receiver.
44:34Anyway.
44:35Uh, I thought Gonzalez was great.
44:36Meanwhile, the safety's called a secondary.
44:38I thought.
44:39I don't know.
44:39Cardinals don't have a ton of other wide receivers.
44:41Like Greg Dorch.
44:43They should take notes on Greg Dorch.
44:45The Patriots should for how to use DeMario Douglas.
44:47Um, I thought the bigger issues, the tight ends, Trey McBride getting up
44:52and down the field, and then just the lack of tackling from the safeties.
44:55Obviously Kyle Duggar missed that big one over the middle.
44:59He's still not right.
45:00I think it's the ankle.
45:01I it's gotta be, it has to be for him to fall off this extremely that quickly.
45:06Like I, you really just don't see that.
45:10You don't see it.
45:11So I think it's the ankle Jabril peppers took a couple of bad angles as well.
45:14He had an atrocious angle on the, um, the long run that if you could take
45:19away, if you take that away, I thought peppers played an okay game, but he
45:23took a bad angle on that one and maybe, you know, just getting back in the
45:27swing of things after missing a lot of time, probably working his way back a
45:30bit, uh, really rough game for the safeties in this one and Jalen Hawkins
45:36continues to not make much of an impact.
45:38Yeah.
45:38I don't think he played a defensive snap yesterday.
45:41Which we're talking about playing the young guys, like Marty Mapu, not active
45:47again, I don't know, you know, they're playing Del Pettis over him.
45:49They have Jalen Hawkins active over him and he's not even playing defensive
45:52snaps of a strictly special team.
45:54So, uh, it seems like that was like maybe a communication from the dolphins
46:00game with Mop because we haven't seen him since, but you know, another one
46:03of those young guys that can't get on the field Duggar, I saw some people
46:07saying like, could they eat his contract after this year, the extension they just
46:11gave him, I think they're going to have to at least one more year.
46:16I did look it up.
46:17Like if you cut them before, uh, the six one, it's like a 23 million cap
46:23hit and you don't save any money.
46:25Uh, if you do it after like, it's like four and a half dead cap nine next
46:29year and you save, or no, it's that's a trade.
46:32It was like 14 dead cap this year, nine next year.
46:35So they're probably going to have to wait one more year, uh, to
46:39at least get out of that one.
46:40So hopefully it is just the ankle and, you know, you can take
46:43care of it during the off season.
46:45Uh, he, he gets back and looks better, but yeah, it has been a steep kind
46:48of, uh, and quick, uh, drop off for Kyle Duggar there, uh, in that secondary.
46:53But yeah, um, I think that was all I had for defense.
46:59Uh, you know, just speaking of the tackling to like talkie talkie
47:03and that same boat, but anything else you have on the defensive side of the
47:07football, I thought there was one other bright spot with Gonzalez and that
47:11was Christian Ellis obviously had the open field tackle on, on Kyler Murray.
47:14That got a lot of attention, made another nice open field tackle earlier.
47:17He was hustling down the field.
47:19We talked earlier about, you know, our players still playing hard.
47:21It was Ellis hustling down the field to tackle James Conner on that long run.
47:26If he doesn't hustle, that's probably a touchdown.
47:28So I don't, I don't know that he's the answer at linebacker, but as a depth
47:33linebacker who can play special teams, like he, he, he should have a role.
47:37That's a guy I'd bring back.
47:39That's a guy that I think is a, a nice piece to have.
47:41Yep.
47:42That, that linebacker position is quickly rising.
47:46I know a lot of positions are rising up the list of off season needs, but
47:50that is, that is getting up there.
47:51They need someone to play, uh, like a full-time role next to Juwan Bentley.
47:56And, you know, Bentley's obviously had his injury concerns too.
47:58So someone who you're confident to be like the guy on that second
48:02level, if Juwan Bentley goes out too.
48:04So there's some good options and free agency in the draft.
48:07We'll obviously be talking about that pretty much soon, but that is the defense.
48:11Uh, we'll wrap up very quickly with special teams, another
48:14missed kick from Joey sly.
48:16Are we going to get John Parker Romo here?
48:19The kicker they signed to the practice squad who traveled
48:21with the team to Arizona.
48:22Mike Reese pointed that out.
48:24Do you think we could see him over these last three games?
48:28Now that slide missed another kick.
48:29It was 53 yards, but you know, that's his thing.
48:32He's got the big leg.
48:32Could we see a kicker change down the sweat down the stretch here?
48:37I, the way they've kind of talked about wanting to see guys for the future.
48:43Um, I, I could see it because I think the idea is already as Parker Romo, a guy
48:49we're going to bring in to, to compete for this job next year.
48:54We're going to do kickers in the draft.
48:56Like to me, that position is wide open.
48:57So if you can get a look at the guy, it wouldn't surprise me.
49:00Yeah.
49:02And I don't think there was anything else very noticeable
49:06in special teams, right?
49:08Not, not a friend's school at a nice tackle on, on punt coverage.
49:12Jimmy Bell made another play who Jeremy Springer wanted to give
49:15to him, Bella's flowers, uh, before the game.
49:18He was asked, like, if there's one player who's been pressed
49:21and he said, Jaheim bell.
49:22So, uh, he made another nice play.
49:24He has been good on special teams.
49:25Yeah.
49:26So, but kind of a quiet, quieter day in that department
49:30decide besides the, uh, missed kick there.
49:32So we'll see if there's a potential change.
49:34Springer was, he, he did say it was, he played the card when we asked him on
49:38Friday, like he played the card more of, you know, they just want to take some
49:42wear and tear off slide down the stretch, you know, in practice, but, uh, he's
49:46missed seven kicks now.
49:47So maybe they, they do make a change there and we'll see with Parker aroma,
49:52but, uh, any other closing thoughts from you, anything coaching staff or any
49:57other last notes about that game?
50:01I think that's pretty much it.
50:02All right.
50:03So we will wrap it up there.
50:05We have the bills to preview.
50:07We, I think we're going to do that Wednesday night.
50:11So, uh, Patriots going to Buffalo week 16, three more, three more games
50:17left, and then the fun stuff starts with off season free agency draft.
50:22And we can get into some of the good stuff, but three more, we'll be back
50:25Patriots press pass Wednesday night.
50:27Preview that in the meantime, you can follow Barth on Twitter at real Alex
50:31Barth head over to 95, the sports up.com for his Patriots coverage over there.
50:35And you can follow me on Twitter at I am Brian Heinz and head over to
50:39.com for our Patriots coverage there as well.
50:42Thank you everyone for tuning in with us tonight, and we will
50:45see you guys later this week.