The Reporters | Khawar Ghumman & Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain | ARY News | 25th December 2024
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00:00Pakistan has a special importance on 25th December.
00:25On 25th December, at the beginning of the program,
00:28we on behalf of our program, ARY channel,
00:31all of our organization,
00:33my team of reporters,
00:35wish our Christian community,
00:37inside and outside of Pakistan,
00:39a happy Christmas.
00:42Viewers, on 25th December,
00:44our Tahiyyat leader,
00:46Respected Nawaz Sharif,
00:48who is also the President of Pakistan Muslim League,
00:50will be born.
00:52But most importantly for us,
00:54as Pakistanis,
00:56on 25th December,
00:58is the birthday of our leader,
01:00Qaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah,
01:02the founder of Pakistan.
01:04Viewers, in today's program,
01:06we will try to talk about
01:08those golden principles,
01:10which our leader,
01:12when making Pakistan,
01:14gave us.
01:16In the process of making Pakistan,
01:18the golden principles
01:20which he followed,
01:22because of which Pakistan came into existence.
01:24And in the history of the world,
01:26he made such an incident,
01:28that till today, historians,
01:30are surprised and worried,
01:32that a naive,
01:34frail, weak lawyer,
01:36fought a legal battle,
01:38only on the basis of his education,
01:40which was his golden principle,
01:42faith, unity,
01:44and organization,
01:46he followed that,
01:48and after following that,
01:50Pakistan succeeded in establishing itself.
01:52Unfortunately,
01:54as Pakistanis,
01:58we did not follow
02:00those golden principles.
02:02What did Qaid-e-Azam say?
02:04In every speech of Qaid-e-Azam,
02:06if you read his speeches,
02:08you will see that
02:10he told the administration,
02:12that how to act
02:14as an executive.
02:16He also talked about
02:18the work of the Legislative Assembly.
02:20He said that
02:22the civil and military bureaucracy
02:24in Pakistan,
02:26they have to follow the law,
02:28and safeguard the interests
02:30of the state of Pakistan.
02:32They have nothing to do
02:34with who is in the government.
02:36And the representatives
02:38elected by the people,
02:40their real job is
02:42to give policies,
02:44to create policies.
02:46This is the golden principle,
02:48and we did not follow it.
02:50The first dagger
02:52that was given to us
02:54was the silence of the people.
02:56And today, after 76 years,
02:58we are stuck in the same debate
03:00that how to run Pakistan.
03:02What are the responsibilities
03:04of the different
03:06state institutions in Pakistan?
03:08What does the government
03:10have to do?
03:12What does the administration
03:14have to do?
03:16Today, we will discuss
03:18the first part of the program.
03:20First of all,
03:22I will come to you.
03:24But before coming to you,
03:26we have taken
03:28an excerpt from
03:30the speech of
03:32Respected Qaid-e-Azam Muhammad
03:34Ali Jinnah.
03:36He gave a speech
03:38in April 1948
03:40in Peshawar.
03:42Surprisingly,
03:44some part of that speech
03:46has been posted
03:48on the website of
03:50the Pakistan Election Commission.
03:52Viewers, I will read a few lines
03:54and then we will start
03:56our discussion.
04:14Viewers, this is the basic point.
04:40Unfortunately,
04:42over the decades,
05:12our administration
05:14and your administration
05:16have been in conflict.
05:18Mr. Chaudhry Ghulam Sain,
05:20I will start with you.
05:22You have the most experience
05:24in our program.
05:26I would like to know
05:28a basic point
05:30on which we should
05:32start acting today.
05:34Respected Qaid-e-Azam Muhammad
05:36Ali Jinnah,
05:38he told us
05:40that institutions are being
05:42violated.
05:44Institutions are interfering
05:46in other institutions
05:48more than their own.
05:50What should we do?
05:52Our policy makers
05:54should come to their senses.
05:56The population of
05:58Pakistan is 25 crores.
06:00Unfortunately,
06:02we have to repeat
06:04on a daily basis
06:06that 40% of the population
06:08is poor.
06:10People do not have
06:12food and water.
06:14Mr. Chaudhry Ghulam Sain.
06:18We are proud
06:20to have
06:22such a leader
06:24whose character
06:26and clothes
06:28are clean.
06:30His personality
06:32is clear-headed
06:34and clean-handed.
06:36He fought
06:38hard
06:40to make the Muslims
06:42in India
06:44a dignified country.
06:46By the grace of Allah,
06:48even though we had to
06:50sacrifice a lot of blood,
06:52there are so many incidents
06:54where a person
06:56becomes unconscious
06:58while thinking.
07:00This is a big thing.
07:02If someone
07:04is living in Pakistan
07:06and there is a doubt
07:08whether Pakistan was
07:10a good country in 1947,
07:12he should visit
07:14New Delhi
07:16and Jamia Masjid.
07:18He should go there
07:20and he will
07:22come to his senses
07:24about freedom,
07:26oppression,
07:28slavery,
07:30Muslims in India
07:32who have been massacred
07:34in India.
07:36By the grace of Allah,
07:38in Pakistan,
07:40you are saying
07:42that there should be
07:44no such thing.
07:46The second
07:48big reality
07:50which is
07:52glaring in our eyes
07:54is that
07:56where 40%
07:58of the population
08:00in India
08:02is not going to school.
08:04Similarly,
08:063 crore Pakistani children
08:08are not going to school.
08:10India's population
08:12is 1.5 billion.
08:14There are only
08:1611,88,000 children
08:18who are not going to school.
08:20This is because of your death.
08:22If Khawar Sahib
08:24had given a lecture
08:26about this and that,
08:28he would have said
08:30that the population
08:32is below the poverty line.
08:34You asked
08:36one sentence
08:38that the country
08:40is fine.
08:42It is the same.
08:44Rule of law,
08:46rule of law,
08:48rule of law.
08:50Absolutely right, Mr. Chaudhary.
08:52Mr. Naqvi, I come to you.
08:54My personal experience
08:56is that I worked
08:58at Quaid-e-Azam Papers Project
09:00in Islamabad for a year
09:02as a research officer.
09:04Different documents
09:06about the life of Quaid-e-Azam
09:08were deciphered there.
09:10Mr. Naqvi,
09:12there is a letter
09:14written by Quaid-e-Azam.
09:16He sent a toaster
09:18to his house for repair.
09:20When he took the toaster
09:22to his house,
09:24the worker
09:26who repaired the toaster
09:28was worth
09:30the price of the toaster.
09:32So, Quaid-e-Azam wrote a message
09:34to the toaster repairer
09:36that the toaster was worth
09:38the price of the toaster.
09:40He was meticulous
09:42in terms of
09:44financial
09:46spendings.
09:48We have also read
09:50in the Governor House
09:52that in official meetings
09:54tea was given
09:56but it was said
09:58that he himself
10:00used to bear the expenses.
10:02Our rulers
10:04are just
10:06looking for opportunities
10:08to spend money
10:10on the government's expenses.
10:12Mr. Naqvi?
10:14First of all,
10:16I would like to say
10:18long live Mr. Chaudhary.
10:20Regarding India,
10:22those who are ashamed of Pakistan's existence,
10:24go to India and see
10:26how the Muslims are doing.
10:28There is no doubt
10:30that the Muslims are in a very bad state.
10:32Secondly,
10:34Quaid-e-Azam talked about
10:36unity, organization and stability.
10:38Unfortunately, our nation
10:40took that unity, organization
10:42and stability in such a way
10:44that we became united
10:46in doing corruption,
10:48we became organized in breaking the law,
10:50we became united
10:52in spreading all kinds of evil.
10:54Whether you go out on the streets,
10:56you will see it in traffic,
10:58you go to government institutions,
11:00you go to educational institutions,
11:02you go to government institutions,
11:04you will see all this there.
11:06And we have become so united,
11:08you are absolutely right that
11:10the Quaid-e-Azam who made Pakistan,
11:12they could not fix their toaster.
11:14But after that, all the people
11:16who are using Pakistan's resources
11:18as much as they can
11:20for their own luxury,
11:22this is a very,
11:24very big
11:26denial of those principles
11:28of Quaid-e-Azam.
11:30And in no way
11:32are they capable of
11:34taking the name of Quaid-e-Azam
11:36and saying that we are following
11:38the principles of Quaid-e-Azam,
11:40the thought of Quaid-e-Azam
11:42and are running Pakistan
11:44as the future rulers.
11:46And if all this does not change,
11:48then the future rulers
11:50will continue to run this country
11:52in the same way,
11:54nothing will change.
11:56And it is very important for us
11:58that we bring that unity,
12:00that organization,
12:02that belief to improve Pakistan,
12:04not to take advantage of it.
12:06Okay, Hasan Ayub,
12:08I was reading an article
12:10in the newspaper today,
12:12an incident is being explained
12:14that there is a judgment
12:16of the Supreme Court in 2015,
12:18you know that Qazi Fajisah
12:20was in the minority
12:22at that time,
12:24when the issue of multi-courts
12:26was going on.
12:28So in that,
12:30he gave a reference
12:32in his decent note,
12:34in 1919,
12:36Quaid-e-Azam gave a speech
12:38at that time,
12:40he also explains
12:42that if a person
12:44is in jail
12:46even for one day
12:48through unfair means,
12:50without a fair trial,
12:52then this is injustice.
12:54So as a lawyer,
12:56as a lawyer,
12:58as a lawyer,
13:00there are his speeches,
13:02so today's judiciary,
13:04Quaid-e-Azam talks a lot
13:06about the judiciary,
13:08Quaid-e-Azam talks a lot
13:10about the judiciary,
13:12what lesson should our
13:14current judiciary,
13:16our lawyers,
13:18obviously a very powerful
13:20segment should learn
13:22and should follow it.
13:24Look, first of all,
13:26we should evaluate
13:28that what a fall,
13:30from leaders like Quaid-e-Azam,
13:32now we have reached
13:34to our current leadership.
13:36We used to use
13:38Shahana, a big protocol,
13:40cars in front and behind,
13:42and petrol is also being used.
13:44Then we used E-1 helicopters
13:46from Bani Gala
13:48to our office.
13:50This is a stone-throw distance.
13:52What was the need to use a helicopter from there?
13:54Such things used to happen to us.
13:56And what we did,
13:58we did not learn anything from it.
14:00Again, those people who used
14:02this method earlier,
14:04they will use it again.
14:06So, as a nation,
14:08we should strengthen democracy.
14:10We should strengthen democracy
14:12and basically,
14:14power should go to public representatives.
14:16Power should go
14:18to public representatives.
14:20Your enclosed space
14:22should be taken back
14:24by your public representatives,
14:26whether it is taken by the judiciary
14:28or by the establishment.
14:30The establishment is also a part of it,
14:32and the judiciary has also
14:34done a lot.
14:36We will see in the coming days
14:38how much they can make their space.
14:40We heard
14:42that one of our esteemed prime ministers,
14:44while giving an interview,
14:46said that the army chief,
14:48General Bajwa, is the most democratic.
14:50What example was he giving?
14:52So, he is a brother,
14:54and then he was called bad.
14:56He was called a traitor.
14:58So, our leadership has suffered a lot.
15:00So, we will have to see.
15:02We should stick to our words.
15:04When you are the leader of the people,
15:06and you have told something to the people,
15:08you should stick to your words.
15:10Whether he was a democrat,
15:12he was a democrat.
15:14Whether he is a traitor,
15:16he is a traitor.
15:18You should stick to one thing.
15:20Absolutely right.
15:22Mr. Gulam Singh,
15:24today's history
15:26is another event.
15:28We forget his role
15:30in the politics of Pakistan
15:32in the 1980s,
15:34at the time of Jan Wajelani.
15:38We also forget
15:40what happened
15:42with Prime Minister Junejo.
15:44Then, you know,
15:46we also forget
15:48the famous Asghar Khan case.
15:50Let's fast forward
15:52to today's date.
15:54When he came from abroad,
15:56recently, you know,
15:58this was also a very important event.
16:00The state went to him
16:02and welcomed him.
16:04So, his role
16:06in today's history,
16:08it is obvious
16:10that today is a very important day.
16:12There is political tension in the country.
16:14The country needs political reform.
16:16What should they do?
16:18In your opinion, what can they do?
16:20You gave a very good example.
16:22It is a good thing.
16:24We have seen the use of helicopters.
16:26Haleem died here in Islamabad.
16:28I have seen it.
16:30There are many examples
16:32from all eras.
16:36Mr. Chaudhary.
16:40Don't ask me.
16:42Ask your friends.
16:44Mr. Chaudhary, you have had
16:46a very good time with the Sharif family.
16:48Don't do this to your brothers.
16:50You tell me,
16:52what role should they play?
16:54They should move forward and
16:56hold hands.
16:58Don't feel bad.
17:02Don't feel bad.
17:04I will just say one sentence.
17:06All three of you
17:08understand much better than me.
17:10Today, Mr. Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif,
17:12whom I saw
17:14on 25th April 1981
17:18as the Minister of Treasury
17:20I have seen many incidents
17:22of friendship,
17:24enmity,
17:26neutral situation.
17:28There have been many incidents.
17:30Even today,
17:32someone else said
17:34Mr. Chaudhary,
17:36whether you say it or not,
17:38I had a role in becoming
17:40the Prime Minister.
17:42So, I don't say anything because of that.
17:44Anyway, it is their kindness.
17:46But the incident of my father,
17:48who was put in jail,
17:50the newspaper...
17:52Forget it.
17:54Tell me, what should Mr. Chaudhary
17:56do today?
17:58First of all, you tell me,
18:00what role is he playing in Pakistan?
18:04He is neutral.
18:06He is silent.
18:08You just want to know
18:10what role he should play.
18:12You go ahead.
18:14You too, Mr. Khabar Govind,
18:16what role should he play?
18:18He should play the role of law.
18:20There are 100,000 cases against him.
18:22More than 20,000 have been arrested.
18:24And the situation is still bad.
18:26He should be shut down.
18:28It is his duty as a politician
18:30to bring the country towards the rule of law
18:32instead of sitting at home
18:34and eating dry fruits.
18:36Good advice.
18:38Mr. Nagri, when Mr. Qaid returned to Pakistan,
18:40he said a very good thing.
18:42Let's listen to it.
18:44There is no desire for revenge
18:46in Nawaz Sharif's heart.
18:48But there is no desire
18:50in Nawaz Sharif's heart.
18:52The state institutions,
18:54the communities,
18:56and the state institutions
18:58must work together.
19:00The country cannot move forward
19:02without this.
19:04Everyone will have to come together
19:06to act on the constitution.
19:08Mr. Nagri, the other day,
19:10was it your news or your wish
19:12that Mr. Qaid should go to Adyala
19:14to meet Mr. Qaid?
19:16Of course, if he goes,
19:18it will change the political history of Pakistan.
19:20If that happens,
19:22it is not everyone's wish.
19:24In fact, we would like it to happen
19:26for the betterment of Pakistan.
19:28So, what role should Qaid,
19:30the Qaid of Pakistan Muslim League,
19:32play in the current situation?
19:34Mr. Nagri is the most experienced,
19:36two-time chief minister,
19:38three-time prime minister.
19:40His party is ruling in Wafaaq,
19:42the largest province of Pakistan.
19:44He is a member of the
19:46United Nations.
19:48So, he is quiet.
19:50He does not talk about the current
19:52political situation.
19:54He should play a front-row role.
19:56Mr. Nagri?
19:58Yes, I would like to add
20:00a small thing to my previous conversation.
20:02Unfortunately, our rulers of all eras
20:04have considered Qaid-e-Azam
20:06to be a great benefit.
20:08Their speeches
20:10and speeches
20:12are used for their own benefit.
20:14The answer to the question
20:16you asked is that
20:18not only Nawaz Sharif,
20:20but also Imran Khan,
20:22who is a great contributor
20:24to Pakistan as a politician
20:26and head of the country,
20:28is a great contributor to Pakistan
20:30as a politician,
20:32head of the party,
20:34and as a cricketer,
20:36he should show leniency
20:38to all three parties.
20:40If Nawaz Sharif is demonstrating
20:42his ego, he should end it.
20:44If Imran Khan is demonstrating
20:46his ego, he should end it.
20:48If Qaid-e-Azam of the previous party
20:50is demonstrating his ego,
20:52he should end it.
20:54These three major parties
20:56should put their egos aside
20:58and show leniency to Pakistan.
21:00I am not talking about the internal
21:02political situation of Pakistan.
21:04The situation of Pakistan,
21:06especially in the Islamic world,
21:08and the intensity of resistance
21:10and the intensity of war
21:12in different countries,
21:14Pakistan will have to face
21:16all these leaders
21:18and will have to sit together
21:20for the sake of Pakistan.
21:22If Pakistan remains stable
21:24and strong,
21:26they will keep getting power
21:28and they will keep getting power.
21:30Hassan, it is a good point
21:32that in every political era
21:34there are good things
21:36and there are bad things.
21:38So we can choose our pick
21:40and choose to highlight.
21:42In today's date,
21:44we have restricted our answer
21:46to the question of
21:48what should be Qaid's role?
21:50He is the most experienced
21:52political party in the government
21:54and he is leading it.
21:56What should be his role?
21:58What role is he going to play?
22:00Nawaz Sharif is leading
22:02both the government
22:04of Waqf-e-Nauf and the government
22:06of the Subah.
22:08He is very active.
22:10He is not visible.
22:12Shabaz and Maryam Nawaz are visible.
22:14As far as
22:16Haider Naqeeb is concerned,
22:18Nawaz Sharif may go to
22:20Adiyara Jail.
22:22He went to Adiyara Jail
22:24after becoming the Prime Minister
22:26in 2014.
22:28He took his minister
22:30who was with Nisar Sahib
22:32to Adiyara Jail.
22:34Imran Khan started
22:36the protest.
22:38When Saniya APS was held,
22:40Nawaz Sharif
22:42did not humiliate
22:44Imran Khan.
22:46He announced
22:48that the protest
22:50had to be called off.
22:52Nawaz Sharif said
22:54that if he had not gone
22:56to Adiyara Jail,
22:58he would have
23:00participated in Imran Khan's
23:02protest.
23:04He said he would have
23:06participated.
23:08The press conference
23:10had to be called off.
23:12Nawaz Sharif showed
23:14great grace.
23:16But Imran Khan
23:18could not
23:20show his respect.
23:22Nawaz Sharif
23:24could have
23:26apologized to Imran Khan
23:28on 9th May.
23:30But he had to
23:32show his ego.
23:34He is a great leader.
23:36But he has to
23:38show his respect.
23:40If someone is
23:42graceful,
23:44then there is
23:46grace.
23:48Pakistan needs
23:50grace.
23:52Nawaz Sharif
23:54is a great leader.
23:56He is a great leader.
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27:36He is a great leader.
27:38He is a great leader.
27:40He is a great leader.
27:42He is a great leader.
27:44He is a great leader.
27:46He is a great leader.
27:48He is a great leader.
27:50He is a great leader.
27:52He is a great leader.
27:54He is a great leader.
27:56He is a great leader.
27:58He is a great leader.
28:00He is a great leader.
28:02He is a great leader.
28:04They were in a very good relationship.
28:06I actually believe having people
28:08from the outside, nonpoliticians,
28:10common sense people, business people
28:12are the ones that do best.
28:14I do too.
28:16I'd like to see Imran Khan
28:18be released from jail.
28:20He is currently in prison.
28:22A lot of the same allegations
28:24just like president Trump
28:26where the ruling party
28:28put him in prison
28:30and created some corruption allegations
28:32false allegations, and he's in prison now.
29:02You tweeted about it. You have 12 million views. You said free Emron Khan. State Department's
29:08finally making some comments about it. Matthew Miller voicing concerns, and we'll just put it
29:12up again. You said you're late. This is too little, too weak. In a very weird statement that didn't
29:20have any common language whatsoever, nobody could really understand, the State Department said,
29:26basically, we shouldn't be having these judicial processes the way that they have them in
29:33Pakistan. It was really an odd statement. What they really meant, what Matt Miller,
29:36the State Department spokesman, really meant was free Emron Khan. And so I just came at him and
29:43just said, why don't you just say it? Instead of pretending like you care about all these
29:48processes, the judicial process, and nobody really knows what you're saying, just say what you mean,
29:55which is, let the guy out of prison who actually wants to run for office, and let the people decide.
30:25And he's hitting very hard. I mean, except that the Americans having this administration,
30:55I'm 100% against this administration. But whatever is happening in front of you, including Islamabad,
31:01if you want to close your eyes, then do it, Mr. Khawar. Don't force me to do it.
31:07That day you did this, that day you did that.
31:12Hassan Ayub wants to answer in detail,
31:14but the police are telling him to take a short break so that the interpreter can answer.
31:17Stay with us.