#imrankhan #pti #Negotiations #civildisobedience #pmlngovt #TaimurKhaJhagra #TariqFazalChaudhary #ShahidKhaqanAbbasi #aniqanisar #aitrazhai
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Taimur Khan Jhagra PTI
- Dr Tariq Fazal Chaudhary PMLN
- Shahid Khaqan Abbasi (Former PM)
Negotiations or civil Disobedience? Which way will things go? Anika Nisar's Important Analysis
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Taimur Khan Jhagra PTI
- Dr Tariq Fazal Chaudhary PMLN
- Shahid Khaqan Abbasi (Former PM)
Negotiations or civil Disobedience? Which way will things go? Anika Nisar's Important Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful, I am Aneeka Nisar with the
00:14program, Objection.
00:15Viewers, on one hand, the first government used to say to negotiate with us, after that
00:19Pakistan started saying to negotiate with us.
00:22Now both sides are saying to negotiate, but along with that negotiation, a very big F
00:29comes along.
00:30The government, the government has a lot of expenses at this time, that if there is
00:34a meeting, there is a negotiation, after the negotiation, if something is decided, then
00:38until it is approved by Imran Khan Sahib, it will not be able to move forward in any
00:42way.
00:43Before this, while telling the experiences of the past, the government is very clearly
00:46expressing its expenses, that whenever there was a talk, went and talked to Imran Khan
00:51Sahib, had a discussion with him, came back, decided, went back to Imran Khan Sahib, then
00:56the matter was rejected.
00:58But the matter is only up to this point.
01:00The government is not only pointing to Imran Khan Sahib's rejection, but is also pointing
01:05to one more thing.
01:07On the one hand, if they negotiate that matter, then on the other hand, they will not become
01:13N.R. in any way, nor will they be blackmailed.
01:17Malik Ahmed Khan Sahib has talked about blackmailing.
01:20There will be no blackmail in any way.
01:22Listen.
01:23In the current situation also, I think that it is a necessary means to get out of these
01:28difficulties.
01:29But if someone is adamant that he can find a way to shake the whole foundation of the
01:34state with his force, with his violence, with his civil disobedience, then he should keep
01:39trying.
01:40Now this is a challenge or a threat, it is necessary to understand this.
01:44Because the government has already said that as soon as the demand is there, you cannot
01:49negotiate.
01:51You have to come from an open heart for negotiation.
01:54But now the new thing that has started coming from the government once, which was saying
01:59a long time ago that NRO should not be given, is now being heard again.
02:03That somehow, neither in reference to 9th May, nor in reference to 26th November, nor in
02:07reference to £190 million, NRO will not be given.
02:10Yes, there will definitely be negotiations.
02:12Mr. Talha Chaudhary, what are you saying?
02:14Negotiations should definitely take place.
02:16But there will be no negotiations on NRO, on the excuse of £190 million, on 9th May,
02:22on 26th November.
02:23If we talk about any kind of NRO, then we will waste time.
02:28And this is what Governor KPK also pointed out.
02:32He said that our Chief Minister does not care what is happening with the people here.
02:38They go and cry in front of Wifaq, but NRO will not meet them.
02:44Our Chief Minister goes to every meeting of Wifaq.
02:46He goes there and cries, that what problems do I have.
02:49Right now, their one point is NRO.
02:50Those people who did not want to join hands with anyone.
02:52Today, when they are finding out that they are going to be punished for their actions,
02:55now no one will leave the door open for them to say that NRO should be given.
03:00Now, sir, in this matter, there is an important personality in the middle, that is the Speaker
03:05of the National Assembly, Sardar Iyaz Sadiq Sahib.
03:07A statement has also come from him as to how he wants to take matters forward and why
03:12he wants to take matters forward.
03:13Because if the Speaker of the National Assembly becomes that bridge that can fill up the gap
03:18between the government and the opposition, can bridge up, then matters can move towards
03:23improvement.
03:24A statement has also come from him.
03:25At the end of the Speaker's Conference.
03:27Listen to it.
03:28The status of dialogue between the government and the opposition should be increased.
03:33We should emphasize politics on issues.
03:36We should talk about the betterment of Pakistan on issues, the betterment of the parliament,
03:41the politics related to issues, the politics of toleration and the politics of giving respect
03:46to each other.
03:47The talks have taken place here.
03:48This gives courage that the chances of the polarization in Pakistan to end are very high.
03:55Now, on one hand, this matter.
03:56On the other hand, Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf has given a deadline of Sunday.
03:59But Rana Sinhaullah has already told that the matter cannot be resolved by Sunday.
04:03Because when the Prime Minister will come, then we will take the matter forward.
04:06And on Monday, an important decision of 190 million pounds is going to come, in which
04:11problems can also be created for Imran Khan.
04:14Opportunities seem strong.
04:16But what is going to happen on Monday?
04:18This will tell the condition of someone beyond the limit.
04:20The guests who are present with us, I will introduce them.
04:22Dr. Tariq Faisal Chaudhary is present with us.
04:24He is the leader of PMLN.
04:25Thank you very much, Dr. You joined.
04:27Taimur Saleem Jagra is present with us.
04:29He is the leader of PTI.
04:30Thank you very much.
04:31Mr. Jagra, you also joined.
04:32Mr. Jagra, starting from you.
04:33You have also come towards the negotiations.
04:35The government has also come towards the negotiations.
04:37Let's take a step forward.
04:39It has been decided that the negotiations can be done.
04:42But there has been a demand of the government for a long time.
04:46And that demand is that you should talk to the leaders of PTI.
04:51And if Imran Khan does not agree, then what is the use?
04:54And now, this is a matter of gold.
04:56This is also there.
05:02So, are you looking at the negotiations moving forward with these limits?
05:06I think the initiative is with the government.
05:11And there is no other option.
05:15Because whether it is a de facto government or a de jure government,
05:21they have seized the election results.
05:27They have seized the judiciary and the way in which judges are being appointed.
05:33They have seized the violations of the law in the whole of Pakistan in the last two and a half years.
05:41They have made enforced disappearances.
05:46What happened on 26 November, and I am sure my brothers will agree with me,
05:52that this statement by the government that no bullets were fired,
05:57when the entire blue area, F6, G6, is a witness, that is their mistake.
06:06So, now, I think they just have to define that these are all issues.
06:12Election is also an issue. 26 November is also an issue.
06:15The freedom of the judiciary is also an issue.
06:17But now, your issues have been reduced.
06:19Let me get a clear picture of that.
06:21Now, the issues have been reduced.
06:23Now, it is 9th May and it is 26th November.
06:26Pakistan Tariq-e-Insafwale has given a deadline till Sunday.
06:29Till Sunday, nothing like this is happening.
06:32If I am not wrong, Dr. Sir,
06:34because the Prime Minister will come,
06:36then he will raise the matter,
06:38he will pick up the matter,
06:40and then there will be a discussion,
06:41and then there will be a decision.
06:42So, the deadline till Sunday from the PTI,
06:45where does it stand in the books of the government?
06:50Look, the thing is that when you talk about dialogue,
06:54it means that you are talking about solving the issues with a clear understanding
06:58and a political approach.
07:02The second name I give for dialogue is politics.
07:07Dialogue is politics.
07:09So, if you talk about politics,
07:11then there are no deadlines in politics.
07:13If you talk about deadlines,
07:15then this is the same politics,
07:18which unfortunately,
07:20we have seen in the last 8-10 years,
07:23that sometimes one city is closed,
07:25sometimes another city is closed,
07:26sometimes one road is closed,
07:27sometimes another road is closed,
07:28sometimes here is a cave,
07:29sometimes there is an ascent.
07:31So, this politics,
07:33its conclusion is very important.
07:35What my brother Taimur Chagda has said,
07:38Look, there is always a skeleton in the cupboard,
07:46if we talk about political parties,
07:48if we talk about their governments,
07:50we start discussing that skeleton,
07:52and that becomes the decoration of every talk show.
07:55And I understand the popularity of all the fight talk shows,
08:00I don't know why, but it is too much.
08:03So, this skeleton debate…
08:05No, you both don't worry,
08:06I don't want to fight you both,
08:07I want you both to have a chat,
08:09to have a discussion,
08:10which ultimately reaches to a decision.
08:12No, we won't fight even if you want to.
08:16I won't even want to, you don't worry.
08:19To the point,
08:21and I say that you can say the hardest thing
08:24in very soft words.
08:26We have to give our point of view,
08:28the point of view of the party.
08:29But my question is,
08:30the deadline till Sunday,
08:32if it doesn't happen, then what?
08:35I was answering Mr. Chagda's question,
08:39that I also have a long list,
08:41I have mentioned the skeleton because,
08:43Americans were arrested,
08:45why did they put Nawaz Sharif in jail,
08:47why did they arrest Shabaz Sharif twice,
08:49there is no connection with Maryam Nawaz's politics,
08:51she was arrested twice,
08:53she lives in Karachi,
08:54her hotel doors were broken,
08:56there are all these things,
08:57this has happened in every era,
08:58Rana Sanaw Allah was put in jail,
08:59a heroine was put in jail,
09:01we have to move forward.
09:03If we are stuck in this game,
09:05then they will keep going round and round,
09:08and unfortunately,
09:09this is happening in Pakistan's politics.
09:11The country is standing still right now,
09:13matters are not moving forward.
09:15Institutions are stuck.
09:17In Pakistan's politics,
09:19there is so much polarization and hatred,
09:22that we are apologizing to political opponents,
09:25I am sorry to use these words,
09:26I think it has become a personal issue,
09:28this does not happen.
09:29We have to move forward with tolerance and patience.
09:32I have a request to our friends of Tehreek-e-Insaf,
09:34that you keep these deadlines,
09:36these civil disobedience,
09:38all these things aside,
09:40and come with an open heart,
09:42government with an open heart,
09:44with an open mind,
09:45and we will do it.
09:46So you have brought all the suggestions on the table,
09:48and are ready to do the negotiations.
09:49Now Mr. Jabra,
09:50the thing is,
09:51there was a deadline before this,
09:53the deadline was for 16th December,
09:55we came to know that the deadline could not be reached,
09:57somehow the other,
09:58civil disobedience could not be done now,
10:00so it was postponed.
10:01Will it be waited for this time also,
10:04when the government is reciprocating,
10:06in between the government said,
10:07we do not want to talk,
10:08there is no point in talking to these people.
10:10Now when the government is reciprocating,
10:12will this deadline also be postponed?
10:16When the government is serious about anything,
10:20and shows serious intent,
10:22this debate will not take place on TV.
10:26Today,
10:27on the matter of Parachinar,
10:30Mosin Naqvi has been visited,
10:32Ali Amin Khan has met him,
10:34when Ali Amin Khan was coming here,
10:36this very Mosin Naqvi,
10:38and this very loyal government,
10:40welcomed him with bullets,
10:44which should not have been done.
10:46Or after that,
10:47the talk shows I have been answering for the last 2-3 days,
10:50that Ali Amin Khan's statement is not right,
10:52or Ali Amin Khan's statement is not right,
10:54that is, we should not talk to them.
10:57You may have objections on statements,
11:00but if we look at the reality,
11:02and look at the seriousness of this crisis,
11:05and Tariq Fazal Chaudhary has said much better than me,
11:10that Pakistan is stopped,
11:12then this debate will make you successful.
11:16No, but Mr. Jagra,
11:17Mr. Jagra, you have to accept this,
11:19that Pakistan is stopped,
11:20to make the debate successful,
11:21you have come to this point now.
11:23Before this, the government was saying,
11:25that you should debate,
11:26but you were saying,
11:27that we don't want to debate,
11:28we won't even shake hands.
11:29So now you have come to this point,
11:31so now tell us,
11:32that their concerns are in front of you,
11:35you keep your concerns in front of them,
11:37should there be any resolution,
11:39at the top tier of your leadership,
11:41should there be any expectation?
11:44For PTI,
11:46to talk internally about a resolution,
11:50that is why it is more challenging,
11:53I am telling you the truth,
11:55that our decision maker is in jail,
11:58he has limited access,
12:00when he gives access at the will of the government,
12:02when he doesn't give access at the will of the government,
12:04who he gives access to,
12:05who he doesn't give access to.
12:06So is the possibility of failure of the debate more,
12:09Mr. Jagra?
12:10Of what?
12:11So you are saying,
12:12that until Imran Khan is not released,
12:14the debate will not be successful,
12:16is that what you are saying?
12:17No, I am not saying this,
12:19I think there is a long road in front of the government.
12:22If sensible,
12:23because if you say,
12:27that PTI,
12:29let's say,
12:30changes its tone of politics,
12:34it is possible,
12:35but if you,
12:36on 9th May,
12:37on 26th November,
12:38on elections,
12:40these are all substantive issues,
12:42if you talk about them,
12:44then the whole world knows,
12:47who is on the right side of history,
12:51and who is on the wrong side of history.
12:53Yes, if you say,
12:55that we have to reach a solution,
12:58in which this cycle stops,
13:02now this is a legitimate discussion,
13:04but frankly,
13:06I am very happy,
13:07I am saying it again,
13:08what Tariq Fazal Chaudhary has just said,
13:11that Pakistan has stopped,
13:15institutions are on standstill,
13:18this is the exact opposite of the public narrative of the government,
13:23that everything is good,
13:25everything is fine,
13:26everything is not good,
13:28obviously,
13:29Mr. Dodd,
13:30Mr. Jagra has caught your statement,
13:32and he is saying,
13:33that you are basically telling the narrative of the opposition,
13:35first of all,
13:36clarify this,
13:37secondly,
13:38the case of £190 million,
13:40if Mr. Imran Khan faces any difficulty in it,
13:43then will the negotiations,
13:45or the leverage that you could have given to PTI,
13:48will it remain in the hands of the government or not?
13:52See, the thing is,
13:54government and opposition comes later,
13:56first of all,
13:57we are Pakistanis,
13:58we have to talk about Pakistan first,
14:00I have also said,
14:01that Pakistan is on standstill,
14:03see,
14:05any person,
14:06who is living in Pakistan,
14:08or who is outside of Pakistan,
14:10if they see political instability here,
14:14there will be no capital in Pakistan,
14:16business will not flourish in Pakistan,
14:19and I will say something further,
14:21that is,
14:22when this political instability starts in Pakistan,
14:26fights,
14:27fights,
14:28protests,
14:29fights,
14:30protests,
14:31fights,
14:32fights,
14:33then it is a matter of shame for us,
14:35that a businessman from Pakistan,
14:37closes his business in Pakistan,
14:38and invests in Bangladesh,
14:40can you imagine,
14:41this is happening,
14:42this has happened,
14:43or he takes his capital in any other country in the world,
14:46because this capital,
14:48business,
14:49when you have these fears and dangers,
14:52that today we will take this,
14:53sometimes we will take the model of Syria,
14:55sometimes we will take the model of Bangladesh,
14:57then we cannot afford that in Pakistan,
14:59then the businessmen,
15:01those are the birds,
15:03that fly away from a firecracker.
15:05Okay, your point has been justified.
15:07My question.
15:08We have to think,
15:09why are these circumstances going in this direction,
15:11because of which,
15:12we are scaring the investors,
15:14scaring the business community.
15:15Come to my question too,
15:16what is happening?
15:17Uncertainty is arising.
15:19In the case of £190 million,
15:21if something goes wrong for Mr. Irfan Khan,
15:23then you will have a demerit account.
15:25The £190 million case,
15:27is an open and shut case,
15:29and this case is exactly like this,
15:31that,
15:32I always give this example,
15:34based on my experience,
15:35that if a traffic sergeant,
15:37tries to stop me in Islamabad,
15:39for a fine of Rs. 5000,
15:41I will give him the money for the fine,
15:43I will take the receipt,
15:44that is official,
15:45okay, it is permissible,
15:46and he can collect my electricity bill from Rs. 5000.
15:49And I say,
15:50look, the money has already reached the National Treasury,
15:52the fine has been paid,
15:54and it has reached,
15:55but my bill has been collected.
15:57The money that Imran Khan,
15:59gave to a private businessman,
16:03and he went to the Supreme Court,
16:05and collected his own fine,
16:07that money had to come to the National Treasury of Pakistan,
16:10that businessman had to collect his own fine separately,
16:14there were two separate liabilities.
16:18So you are saying,
16:20if the government talks,
16:22I am sorry I am cutting you short,
16:24but if the government talks,
16:26there is no punishment,
16:28that is given by the court,
16:30keeping that in mind,
16:33the government cannot,
16:35give any leniency to Imran Khan,
16:38is that what you are saying?
16:40Look, all these cases are in the courts,
16:44and the courts have to decide,
16:46and the courts don't see,
16:49that two parties are fighting each other,
16:52and both parties have made a deal,
16:54so we should also make a deal,
16:56these are the matters of the courts,
16:58and this is on merit,
17:00I will definitely say,
17:02that justice is what is seen to be justice,
17:04these cases should be decided on merit,
17:06the human mind cannot accept,
17:08that 70 billion rupees,
17:10was given to a private person,
17:12and he was not benefited,
17:14he has been benefited,
17:16Shahzad Akbar Sahib took it,
17:18how he took it,
17:20this is what the prosecution has to prove,
17:22Imran Khan and his wife,
17:24are the members of both his boards,
17:26this is what the prosecution has to prove,
17:28we don't want to,
17:30trial him in the media,
17:32or any personal,
17:34there is no personal agenda,
17:36if there is evidence,
17:38then according to that,
17:40there will be punishment,
17:42if there is no evidence,
17:44then there will be no punishment.
17:46Jagra Sahib.
17:48Look, the first thing is,
17:50I don't think,
17:52serious jokes matter,
17:54because Imran Khan also knows,
17:56that maybe,
17:58we will be very surprised,
18:00if we get justice from the court,
18:02facts of the matter,
18:04if there is to be punishment,
18:06whatever he has to do,
18:08he has done the Indat case,
18:10he has done two more cases,
18:12according to him,
18:14the election results,
18:16that,
18:18that influence,
18:20that didn't happen.
18:22Jagra Sahib,
18:24I want to say one thing,
18:26that Indat case,
18:28you didn't suffer a loss,
18:30we have suffered a loss,
18:32in the election.
18:34That's what I am saying,
18:36more than that,
18:38I am saying that,
18:40there was a loss of justice,
18:42because after that,
18:44there was no credibility of the court,
18:46I agree with everything,
18:48it's a very good thing,
18:50but,
18:52if you agree with each other,
18:54and move forward,
18:56this is my prayer.
18:58This is politics.
19:00What was happening till now,
19:02if this was politics,
19:04then what was happening till now?
19:06No, it wasn't politics,
19:08unfortunately,
19:10the atmosphere is still going on,
19:12we have to give space to each other,
19:14politics is,
19:16the views of each other,
19:18and their thoughts,
19:20so you are saying,
19:22PTI was not doing politics,
19:24or you were also not doing politics?
19:26No, look, whatever the atmosphere was,
19:28the tense atmosphere,
19:30the atmosphere of war,
19:32we have suffered a loss,
19:34political parties,
19:36have lost their political space,
19:38the instability in the country,
19:40I will say it again,
19:42my question is not this,
19:44my question is,
19:46I know the country has suffered a loss,
19:48politics has suffered a loss,
19:50there was a war in the houses,
19:52the polarization has increased,
19:54we couldn't show the youth the way,
19:56my question is,
19:58who was fighting this war,
20:00was it the government,
20:02or PTI?
20:04Look, I,
20:06Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf,
20:08the culture they have given to the country,
20:10and that culture is,
20:12all the political parties of Pakistan,
20:14their leaders,
20:16the words they use,
20:18the abuses,
20:20the rallies,
20:22their social media teams,
20:24the trolling they do,
20:26that is in front of everyone,
20:28and not just other political parties,
20:30if an anchor says something,
20:32against another party,
20:34you yourself, I don't know,
20:36how many times you have been a victim of this,
20:38because I haven't seen any anchor,
20:40who is safe from this trolling,
20:42so these things,
20:44this is the same thing you said,
20:46the polarization,
20:48any kind of trolling,
20:50or any kind of comments from any party,
20:52we should not stop them from speaking the truth,
20:54and we should not take the side of any party,
20:56as a journalist I believe,
20:58we can't take your or PTI's side,
21:00as a journalist,
21:02this is not our responsibility,
21:04Jagra sahib,
21:06the government,
21:08or the speaker of the National Assembly,
21:10who is a very important leader of PMLN,
21:12he is saying,
21:14we are begging you,
21:16come and negotiate,
21:18are you taking demands,
21:20or are you taking an open mind?
21:22We are taking our agenda,
21:24I think that agenda is right,
21:26if the government,
21:28the day it becomes serious,
21:30to think about Pakistan,
21:32and moves away from its self interest,
21:34then I think,
21:36there will be a way forward,
21:38if the government is not serious,
21:40and does not leave its self interest,
21:42as it is involved in self interest,
21:44in the future,
21:46if this problem has to be solved,
21:48it has to be solved through negotiations,
21:50but at that time,
21:52the loss will be much more than today,
21:54and this is the biggest learning
21:56of the last two and a half years,
21:58that this crisis could have been solved
22:00at any time in the last two and a half years,
22:02but the more the stick has been used,
22:04the deeper the crisis has become.
22:06But let me be a devil's advocate,
22:08if I look at the perspective
22:10of the other side,
22:12they will say that whenever
22:14problems have come,
22:16PTI has increased towards negotiations,
22:18it did not increase before that,
22:20when they are strong,
22:22then they move away from negotiations.
22:24No, the day,
22:26the day a serious offer comes
22:28from the government,
22:30there would have been negotiations,
22:32if there was credibility in those negotiations.
22:34The actual difference of PTI
22:36in the politics of Pakistan,
22:38that is not the difference
22:40of culture,
22:42it is the first mainstream
22:44Jamaat,
22:46which wants to break the status quo,
22:48and because of that,
22:50the political worker who has come
22:52to PTI,
22:54what is the status quo?
22:56Mr. Jagra,
22:58If you are talking about the establishment,
23:00then the 2018 elections will come.
23:02So let it come.
23:04The status quo is the system
23:06where the primary role
23:08in politics
23:10or the role of veto
23:12is of the establishment,
23:14where the politician
23:16does not use
23:18his ability
23:20in the way
23:22he should,
23:24and in not doing that,
23:26he also damages
23:28the establishment of Pakistan,
23:30the institutions of Pakistan,
23:32because they are playing
23:34outside of their role,
23:36and in the status quo,
23:38every class,
23:40on which it runs,
23:42that is where it plays a big role.
23:44I'll have to wrap it up over here.
23:46Mr. Jagra, thank you very much.
23:48Thank you very much for joining me
23:50in the program.
23:52Till Monday,
23:54when the Prime Minister will come on Sunday,
23:56at what point will he take
23:58a decision,
24:00that has to yet be seen.
24:02We'll go to the break with this.
24:04We'll come back after the break.
24:06After that, Shahid Khakhan Abbas will be with us.
24:12Welcome back after the break.
24:14Shahid Khakhan Abbas is with us.
24:16Former Prime Minister of Pakistan,
24:18Convener of Aam Pakistan Party.
24:20Thank you very much for joining us.
24:22Do you see the government being successful?
24:24Because the government is also putting conditions
24:26that we won't give NRO.
24:28They are also putting conditions
24:30that we will talk on 9th, 26th November.
24:32When you sit on the table with so many conditions,
24:34can you come up with a resolution?
24:36No, what are jokes?
24:38All these people are in the Parliament.
24:40They can talk there.
24:42They are all members of the Parliament, right?
24:44Yes.
24:46The Speaker is also involved in this.
24:48They can sit in the Parliament and talk to each other.
24:50They can talk in front of the people.
24:52They have to talk in front of the people.
24:54What do you want to hide?
24:56What is the purpose of these negotiations?
24:58To get a share in power?
25:00You talk about the country.
25:02You talk about the issues of the country.
25:04You talk about your issues.
25:06If there are human rights violations,
25:08if someone is in jail,
25:10you can talk about them.
25:12It is your right.
25:14It is the opposition.
25:16The government should listen.
25:18The government's attitude is the same
25:20as Imran Khan's.
25:22The opposition should be pushed
25:24against the wall.
25:26They should be humiliated.
25:28They should not be allowed to speak.
25:30They should be put in jails.
25:32But there is a difference between this
25:34and that opposition.
25:36Imran Khan is present in the opposition
25:38with a lot of public support.
25:40He has a lot of seats.
25:42The previous opposition had so few seats.
25:44There were about 100 seats.
25:46Imran Khan did not fire a bullet.
25:48He took a step forward.
25:50He fired a bullet.
25:52His attitude was very bad.
25:54So, you are saying that
25:56in all circumstances,
25:58in the current situation,
26:00the negotiations are not
26:02looking very successful.
26:04No, they will not.
26:06They will not start.
26:08If your intentions are good,
26:10you can speak in front of people
26:12in the parliament.
26:14You can speak in front of people
26:16in the parliament.
26:18There are committees.
26:20Why do you want to speak outside
26:22the parliament?
26:24You are a member of the parliament.
26:26Why are you humiliating the parliament?
26:28There will be speakers
26:30and members of the parliament.
26:32So, the negotiations
26:34will not go well.
26:36Let's talk about the forum of the parliament.
26:38The real forum for which
26:40the people have elected you.
26:42I did not elect you to
26:44go out and talk in secret
26:46about what I will get in the parliament.
26:48You are talking about NRO.
26:50Do you think the government is asking for NRO?
26:52These are political talks.
26:54Imran Khan also used to say
26:56that he is asking for NRO.
26:58Now, he is talking about this.
27:00Was he asking for NRO?
27:02Was anyone asking for NRO from Imran Khan?
27:04He said so.
27:06He was saying that we are asking for NRO.
27:08But was anyone asking for NRO at that time?
27:10I don't know.
27:12Do you think anyone is asking for NRO today?
27:14I don't know.
27:16But this is their agenda.
27:18They want to get Imran Khan out of jail
27:20and then we will talk.
27:22But now he is a member of the parliament.
27:24You can think of it as NRO or conditions.
27:26You can think whatever you want.
27:28The point is that you start the talks
27:30and then the problem will be solved.
27:32The government has not yet announced a committee.
27:34What does a committee do?
27:36What is the authority of the committee?
27:38This is the real issue.
27:40PTI itself used to make a committee.
27:42The talks used to take place.
27:44And then they used to say that
27:46Imran Khan did not agree.
27:48Whatever the talks used to be,
27:502-4-5 days a week, 2-3-4 days a week.
27:52This is out of experience.
27:54This has happened not once but 2-3 times.
27:56These are national issues.
27:58These are not personal matters.
28:00These are national issues.
28:02What to do about NAB?
28:04What to do about FATF bills?
28:06You have talked a lot about NAB.
28:08I want to talk about it later.
28:10But tell me this.
28:12An important decision has to be made on Monday.
28:14£190 million.
28:16Is that the reason for the government
28:18to wait for the decision?
28:20Once the decision is made,
28:22we will see what to do with PTI.
28:24I don't know about that.
28:26But if the decision is not made
28:28according to the law,
28:30then it has no value.
28:32What should be done according to the law?
28:34We should fulfill the requirements of the law.
28:36According to the law,
28:38I don't know about this case.
28:40If you know the details,
28:42you can tell me.
28:44But what is the crime?
28:46In my opinion,
28:48the way the agreement was made,
28:50that is the real crime.
28:52The money that was supposed to go
28:54to the exchequer.
28:56No, it is not about the money.
28:58It is about the agreement
29:00that you made with the British government.
29:02The agreement that the government made.
29:04Yes, the agreement that the government made.
29:06So you are saying that
29:08getting punished is a strong crime.
29:10In my opinion, that is the real crime.
29:12I don't know where the money went.
29:14I don't know how it went.
29:16I don't have the money.
29:18But the agreement that was made,
29:20the way it was made,
29:22without the approval of the government,
29:24it is not possible
29:26that one thing
29:28is not on the agenda,
29:30that it is not discussed,
29:32that it is not summarized,
29:34that it is not seen,
29:36that what it is,
29:38and you prove it in a closed envelope.
29:40This is a completely illegal act.
29:42What is the punishment for this?
29:44Time will tell.
29:46But the real case,
29:48in my opinion,
29:50is made in that cabinet.
29:52You will have to ask the secretaries
29:54that what did you do?
29:56How did this happen?
29:58We wanted to see, but we were not shown.
30:00But you talk about NAB.
30:02Now there is a matter of corruption.
30:04I would like to tell you about it.
30:06Khawaja Asif said that Pakistan
30:08has to get rid of the IMF.
30:10He is giving a formula.
30:12Corruption is destroying our economy
30:14like an earthquake.
30:16If corruption is reduced by 50%,
30:18then it is not even possible to imagine
30:20that it will be reduced by 50%.
30:22If it is reduced by 50%,
30:24then our country becomes insolvent.
30:26Government machinery
30:28does corruption.
30:30Now the distinction
30:32between lawful and unlawful
30:34has ended.
30:36Abbas, have you heard this statement?
30:38Who has to get rid of 50% corruption?
30:40The government will do it.
30:42So the government is saying
30:44that if it is reduced,
30:46does the government have the leverage?
30:48I am saying that we have made institutions
30:50like NAB, which are the most corrupt.
30:52Believe me,
30:54the most corrupt institutions
30:56in Pakistan to get rid of corruption
30:58are those.
31:00Because they have blind laws.
31:02They can arrest anyone
31:04and make a case on anyone.
31:06Anti-corruption institutions
31:08are the most corrupt.
31:10They give crores of rupees
31:12to become officers.
31:14What is the solution, Abbas?
31:16We have to get rid of corruption.
31:18Khawaja Asif has also said
31:20that we have to get rid of 50%.
31:22To get rid of 1%,
31:24you have to save the people of the country
31:26from corruption.
31:28This may not be the way out of the IMF,
31:30but it is your responsibility
31:32that the people of this country
31:34do not face corruption.
31:36When there is inflation,
31:38corruption also increases.
31:40The level of corruption
31:42in Pakistan has become extremely high.
31:44It was less in 2018.
31:46It has increased in the time of Imran Khan.
31:48The most corrupt governments
31:50were Imran Khan's
31:52and Mehmood Khan's in KP.
31:54They were the most corrupt governments.
31:56The practices of that time
31:58are still going on.
32:00You are saying that the Punjab government
32:02and KP's government are fully involved
32:04in corruption.
32:06I don't know if they are involved.
32:08Corruption is in the system.
32:10It has increased to such an extent
32:12that you can't even imagine.
32:14You are saying to get rid of NAB
32:16and provincial accountability institutions.
32:18What is your intention?
32:20You want to catch people.
32:22You want to get rid of corruption.
32:24Absolutely.
32:26It is an easy task.
32:28How did terrorism end in the world?
32:30It happened because of the gun.
32:32No.
32:34It happened because of change.
32:36No.
32:38It followed money.
32:40Half the money cannot be followed.
32:42Why not?
32:44It is so easy.
32:46You have CNIC.
32:48Implement it.
32:50Every transaction
32:52is linked to CNIC.
32:54There is no will.
32:56There is no will.
32:58Will or not?
33:00These institutions will be empty.
33:02Why will they be empty?
33:04Because no one can justify
33:06their expenses.
33:08There are very few people in Pakistan.
33:10All institutions will be empty.
33:12You can make money
33:14but you can't hide it.
33:16Money will be seen.
33:18So you are saying that
33:20the people in National Assembly and Senate
33:22are corrupt.
33:24They don't pay taxes.
33:26They don't invest in others.
33:28There are very few people who pay taxes.
33:30They can't justify their lives.
33:32So if legislators
33:34are sitting in Aiwan
33:36then we can't imagine
33:38that someone will follow
33:40their expenses.
33:42Is this a lost cause?
33:46Is this a lost cause then?
33:48Accountability in Pakistan?
33:50If you don't want to do it then it won't happen.
33:52You can use tax laws.
33:54Go behind them and ask
33:56where did the money come from?
33:58Government is a part of that money.
34:00Who will bell the cat?
34:02Government will do it.
34:04How can government do it when it doesn't want to do it?
34:08So this is a vicious circle.
34:10This is not a vicious circle.
34:12You don't have any intention of
34:14catching corruption.
34:16Naib has been in power for more than 25 years.
34:18I was made for politicians.
34:20There is a black and blind law.
34:24How many politicians did it catch?
34:26Find out.
34:28Naib is the proof that
34:30all the politicians in this country
34:32have been good for 5 years.
34:34They don't do corruption.
34:36Now the issue is
34:38that this government
34:40has been accused of being corrupt.
34:42People's Party is corrupt.
34:44It has been accused by PTI.
34:46PTI has nothing to do with corruption.
34:48If these governments are corrupt
34:50I am telling you
34:52if you ask anyone
34:54about the most corrupt government
34:56in the history of Punjab
34:58and there have been many corrupt governments
35:00in the past.
35:02People in KP touch their ears
35:04when they hear about the government
35:06of Mahmood Khan.
35:08What is the condition of today's government?
35:12People openly say that a minister
35:14is needed for 15 crores for 6 months.
35:16A minister is needed for 15 crores for 6 months
35:18in Pakistan.
35:20In KP.
35:22In the federal government?
35:24I don't have any evidence.
35:26People openly say that.
35:28What about the federal government?
35:30I don't think about the federal government.
35:32I have heard a lot about it.
35:34It may be wrong.
35:36But it is a fact that
35:38people openly say that
35:40a minister is needed for 15 crores.
35:42Interesting.
35:44On one hand there is PTI
35:46and on the other hand
35:48the issue of Madrasa reforms
35:50is also stuck at this time.
35:52Maulana Sahib said that
35:54it will be solved by next week.
35:56He made a promise.
35:58He took a vote on the 26th.
36:00What was this?
36:02I don't think that Maulana Sahib
36:04took a vote on this basis.
36:06He didn't say that he will do this
36:08or that.
36:10But he must have raised this issue
36:12that this is also an issue and
36:14we should solve it.
36:16Now the government is rejecting it.
36:18They are putting it on Saddar Sahib.
36:20Saddar Sahib can be stopped once.
36:22If they send a bill for the second time,
36:24it will be passed.
36:26All the members of Saddar Sahib's
36:28National Assembly and Senate
36:30should be stopped.
36:32But not the government.
36:34They support the government.
36:36If they are stopped,
36:38the government will be finished.
36:40Do you see the possibility of
36:42the government being stopped?
36:44No, we don't talk about such things.
36:46Is there such a strong glue
36:48that you are ready to talk about it?
36:50It is a waiting chair.
36:52It doesn't leave us.
36:54Khursheed Shah is saying something.
36:56I am ready to say that
36:58if elections are held
37:00after 4 years, 3 years,
37:022 years, 1 year,
37:04whatever is decided,
37:06they will take it once.
37:08They take it for 3 months,
37:106 months, 9 months.
37:12They take it once.
37:14You are talking about Imran Khan.
37:16You are talking about PTI.
37:18After 1 year, 2 years, 3 years,
37:204 years, elections,
37:22they will take it once.
37:24If elections are held after
37:264 years, 3 years, 2 years,
37:28elections, then why not?
37:30Let the people decide.
37:32Why do they have to
37:34make predictions on it?
37:36We are talking about the voters.
37:38Voters are not in the system.
37:40This is a very wrong statement.
37:42It is a wrong thinking.
37:44Voters are there.
37:46Voters are the ones who give.
37:48The decision is of the people.
37:50Even if they elect someone 100 times,
37:52they should respect the people.
37:54If you want to make predictions,
37:56then let the people decide.
37:58In the next elections,
38:00who will the people elect?
38:02The government is getting weaker
38:04and the opposition is getting stronger.
38:06At the polling station.
38:08I have no opinion on this.
38:10Every passing day.
38:12Does the government have
38:14a solution to this?
38:16There is no solution.
38:18It is very wrong thinking.
38:20The people have to get something.
38:22The government has to get something.
38:24Let's talk about the country.
38:26Let's talk about the country's problems.
38:28Let's move the country forward.
38:30Let's spread it to the people.
38:32You said you are more than happy
38:34to be a bridge to bridge up this gap.
38:36If you want two sides,
38:38you need a bridge.
38:40Did the opposition contact you?
38:42No, I don't think so.
38:44If one is attacking
38:46and the other is firing bullets,
38:48he will be killed.
38:50You said you don't want to be a bridge.
38:52I am ready to do anything.
38:54But you need to think.
38:56You need to have an intention.
38:58Have you reached out to the government?
39:00I don't need to reach out.
39:02You need to bridge the gap.
39:04They need to think.
39:06We talk to you every day.
39:08If they think the country is in trouble,
39:10the people are in trouble,
39:12then they need to find a way
39:14to talk to us.
39:16The country is in trouble
39:18and some people are celebrating.
39:20I have to discuss this with you.
39:22Who is celebrating?
39:24I will tell you.
39:26On our ballistic missile program,
39:28four companies were sanctioned
39:30by the US.
39:32Do you consider this step
39:34to be an extraordinary step
39:36by the US?
39:38Four companies were sanctioned
39:40for our ballistic missiles.
39:42Yes, it is an extraordinary step.
39:44The range of ballistic missiles
39:46is very clear.
39:48It is a well-known fact.
39:50If you say that
39:52the missiles will reach the US,
39:54there is a lot of black magic
39:56in this.
39:58What is the reason for this black magic?
40:00Black magic is putting pressure on you.
40:02For what?
40:04You will understand the reason later.
40:06When your home is weak,
40:08your enemy will take over.
40:10The leadership of PTI
40:12has rejected this.
40:14Former President Arif Alvi
40:16and many PTI leaders
40:18have said that this is wrong.
40:20Every Pakistani will reject this.
40:22No Pakistani can give his statement.
40:24Sajjad Barki is the
40:26focal person for USA
40:28to chairman of PTI,
40:30Mr. Imran Khan.
40:32He also has other orders.
40:34Secretary of PTI,
40:36Organization of International Chapters.
40:38He is saying that
40:40this is wrong.
40:42If he is a citizen of USA,
40:44he will say this.
40:46He will also have a Pakistani passport.
40:48It is not about the passport.
40:50When you take the nationality of USA,
40:52you make an oath
40:54that I am
40:56loyal to USA.
40:58I will not be
41:00loyal to any foreign country.
41:02You can use the word prince.
41:04I have read a lot.
41:06You can use the word prince.
41:08I will not be loyal to any foreign country.
41:10I will not be loyal to any foreign country.
41:12He cannot differ from
41:14American policy.
41:16But he also has our passport.
41:18Passport is for travel.
41:20Being a passport
41:22was given to you by
41:24General Jawaharlal Nehru
41:26in 1981.
41:28You are saying that all the Pakistani
41:30citizens of USA
41:32are not Pakistani.
41:34They are loyal to USA.
41:36They made an oath.
41:38American citizen
41:40made an oath.
41:42In World War II,
41:44Japanese nationals
41:46were put in
41:48concentration camp.
41:50There was a doubt
41:52about their loyalty.
41:54This is a very sensitive
41:56thing.
41:58I have lived in that country.
42:00I know this matter.
42:02American citizen
42:04cannot differ from
42:06national security policy.
42:08That is very interesting.
42:10He may be a citizen of two countries.
42:12Citizenship is for convenience.
42:14You are a citizen of one country.
42:16You cannot be a citizen of two countries.
42:18Very interesting.
42:20Thank you very much for joining me in the program.
42:22We will go to the break.
42:24We will talk about these sanctions.
42:26Welcome back after the break.
42:28After the war in the Middle East,
42:30there is another decision
42:32that it will have a direct effect
42:34on the Middle East.
42:36Maybe USA is trying to save Israel
42:38by taking its name.
42:40There are four companies
42:42in Pakistan.
42:44Four Pakistani institutions
42:46have been sanctioned by USA.
42:48USA has put sanctions on four
42:50Pakistani institutions
42:52on the allegation of
42:54helping in the ballistic missile program.
42:56According to the American
42:58media,
43:00it is under Executive Order
43:0213382.
43:04It is implemented
43:06to stop the spread
43:08of weapons and their resources.
43:10NDC of Islamabad
43:12is included in the institutions
43:14that are being sanctioned.
43:16USA has put the allegation
43:18that it is involved in the
43:20preparation and development
43:22of the ballistic missiles
43:24of the Shaheen series of Pakistan.
43:26NDC has tried to obtain
43:28the equipment for testing.
43:30Three other institutions in Karachi
43:32have also been sanctioned.
43:34According to the American allegation,
43:36these companies were involved
43:38in providing the necessary equipment
43:40and things related to the missile
43:42to NDC.
43:44According to the security of
43:46the Pakistani missile system
43:48in America,
43:50USA will not be safe from it.
43:52Now the biggest problem is
43:54that the American deputy
43:56has said that Pakistan
43:58is making long-range ballistic missiles
44:00that can target not only South Asia
44:02but also America.
44:04A message has come
44:06very clearly from the
44:08Pakistani Foreign Office.
44:10The translation of the Foreign Office
44:12has said that the goal of
44:14Pakistan's strategic capabilities
44:16is to defend its independence.
44:18Israel's defense is remembered.
44:20No matter how barbaric they are,
44:22if it is Pakistan's turn to defend,
44:24there will be a problem.
44:26We have been seeing double standards
44:28regarding Pakistan for a long time.
44:30It cannot be violated
44:32for the sake of security of Pakistan.
44:34The statement of Pakistan's
44:36Foreign Office,
44:38look at it in the past,
44:40what is happening with Pakistan.
44:42This is not the first time that
44:44the US has imposed restrictions
44:46on Pakistani companies.
44:48In April, October and September,
44:50the US imposed restrictions
44:52on 13 Pakistani companies
44:54to provide assistance
44:56to Pakistan.
44:58In December 2021,
45:00the US administration
45:02imposed restrictions
45:04on 13 Pakistani companies
45:06to provide assistance
45:08to Pakistan.
45:10Ballistic missiles Shaheen-3
45:12and Ababil are included
45:14at this time,
45:16which are basically
45:18multiple re-enter vehicle missiles.
45:20These are the best missiles
45:22of Pakistan.
45:24According to the experts,
45:26Ababil will be the first missile
45:28in South Asia
45:30which can travel
45:32up to 2200 km
45:34with multiple weapons
45:36and can target different targets.
45:38Let's see India.
45:40They also have ballistic missiles.
45:42I will tell you very soon
45:44what is the double standard
45:46of the US
45:48and Pakistan.
45:50They have missiles
45:52with a range of 5000 to 8000 km.
45:54There is no problem
45:56in importing missiles from Russia.
45:58But when it comes to Pakistan,
46:00Israel's defense comes
46:02indirectly.