#offtherecord #pti #ptiprotest #dchowk #imrankhan #talalchaudhry #zartajgul #kashifabbasi
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Zartaj Gul PTI
- Senator Tallal Chaudhary PMLN
"If Weapons Are Brought Under the Guise of Protest, the State Will use Force..." Talal Chaudhry's
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Zartaj Gul PTI
- Senator Tallal Chaudhary PMLN
"If Weapons Are Brought Under the Guise of Protest, the State Will use Force..." Talal Chaudhry's
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, dear viewers, you are watching the program with me, Kashif Abbasi.
00:14These days, there have been a lot of talks about negotiations.
00:17So, we thought, let's see if we can have negotiations.
00:21But on what basis?
00:22Yesterday, when Ishaq Dar Sahib addressed the floor of the House,
00:27he said that bullets were fired.
00:29In the briefing given to us, aerial fire was fired.
00:32The government's stance has always been that no one had a gun,
00:36so the bullets were fired.
00:37First, let's listen to what Mr. Dar is saying.
00:40According to the briefing given to the government,
00:42there was definitely aerial firing,
00:44because there was no light in that area, I was not there.
00:46And that Bhagdar Machi and the leadership who ran away,
00:50that actually created all this mess.
00:52Otherwise, even if they had gone back peacefully, this mess would not have happened.
00:55So, there was aerial firing.
00:58What was Mr. Mohsin Naqvi saying on this?
01:00On the day of the 27th, after 26th, when he gave a press talk.
01:05What did he say?
01:10You tell me, which police officer had a gun?
01:12Everyone had a camera in their hand.
01:14If there was a bullet, they would have shot the whole world.
01:18Mr. Atta Tarar also gave the same kind of arguments,
01:21that if there was a bullet, it would have been visible.
01:33Live ammunition is not allowed at all.
01:35No one had live ammunition.
01:38If this is what one side of the government is saying,
01:41and the Deputy Prime Minister has been briefed that there was aerial firing.
01:45And on the other hand, it is being said that no one had a weapon here.
01:48So, where is the reality in this?
01:50On the other hand, there is talk of negotiations from the side of justice.
01:54Today, Mr. Chimli Faraz made a proposal for negotiations.
02:00This committee is ready to negotiate with everyone.
02:04You are our brother.
02:06There will definitely be political differences.
02:08These personal enmities should not be created.
02:10He says that personal enmities should not be created.
02:12Mr. Talha Chaudhary is present with us.
02:14Mr. Zardar Gul is present with us.
02:16First of all, what is the statement of your Deputy Prime Minister?
02:19Before you make this decision,
02:21sit inside and decide whether the bullet was fired or not.
02:24In the name of God.
02:26I was present at his entire speech.
02:30Look, this is our stated position from the first day.
02:34That rubber bullets should be used.
02:38And apart from that, the bullet that you are talking about,
02:42this is also what the Deputy Prime Minister said.
02:46He said that we have been given this briefing.
02:50That there was aerial firing.
02:52Sir, this speech was more than 30 minutes.
02:56So, I was present in it.
02:58If you can't narrate everything.
03:00I heard everything.
03:02He said that we have been given this briefing.
03:04No, I am talking about the rubber bullets.
03:06Sir, he did not say rubber.
03:08No, he was not giving any statement in the court.
03:10If you listen to the entire speech,
03:12he said rubber bullets.
03:14But on the other hand,
03:16Mohsin Naqvi and Mr. Tarar say that there was no bullet.
03:18No, this is the stated position.
03:20Not at all.
03:22Look, I have footage of everything.
03:24I have footage of everything.
03:26I have footage of everything.
03:28I have footage of everything.
03:30I have footage of everything.
03:32I am saying that I have footage of everything.
03:34Mr. Talal, you are not telling me the stated position.
03:36Look, the request is that
03:38the first thing that was tried
03:40was not to use force.
03:42All the way they have come,
03:44till the red zone,
03:46no weapon was given to anyone.
03:48Okay?
03:50After that.
03:52After that, the weapon was used.
03:54No, I am talking about the red zone.
03:56No one went to the red zone.
03:58They were tolerated there.
04:00They climbed the containers near the red zone.
04:02They went near the door.
04:04And then they were thrown out of the container.
04:06Listen to me.
04:08You are absolutely right.
04:10Here,
04:12the Islamic touch
04:14and prayer,
04:16you are using it for politics.
04:18If you climb a container
04:2040-50 feet high,
04:22you can fall and die.
04:24It is better that you are thrown down
04:26instead of being arrested
04:28and sent to the police station.
04:30I think that when a person climbs,
04:32he should have a lot of courage.
04:34And we should keep this in mind
04:36that when the state has made an announcement,
04:3847 times,
04:4047 times
04:42the announcement was made.
04:44I am surprised, Mr. Talal,
04:46that the state does this work
04:48with its own people.
04:50You are saying that killing people
04:52is better than killing them.
04:54I have got some time.
04:56If you read the police report,
04:58they are SOPs.
05:00They are warned.
05:02Tear gas,
05:04stick charge,
05:06and then if anyone uses such weapons,
05:08listen to me.
05:10Are we going to create a scene
05:12that the head of the state
05:14has come there?
05:16Where did he come from?
05:18The one from Belarus?
05:20Doesn't your cabinet know where Belarus is?
05:22This is irrelevant.
05:24Two things are relevant.
05:26Mr. Talal, listen to me.
05:28Two things are relevant.
05:30You are saying that throwing a person
05:32out of a container is better.
05:34You are lucky.
05:36If you come in front of us,
05:38we will kill you.
05:40Secondly, you are saying that
05:42we have a stated position
05:44that guns and bullets should be used.
05:46No army has done anything.
05:48If the government has called,
05:50the government has called.
05:52It was a clear cut decision
05:54of the political government
05:56that we will use the minimum
05:58of our power.
06:00We tried for two days.
06:02We made fun of them.
06:04They thought it was our weakness.
06:06We told them to sit in Sanjani
06:08so that the protest could be
06:10regularised.
06:12We tried to make them understand.
06:14But if you think that
06:16you can create a scene
06:18by creating a scene
06:20with the government,
06:22then you should not
06:24create a rift.
06:26What do you mean by creating a rift?
06:28I apologise if I may interject.
06:30No, no.
06:32I agree with you on one thing.
06:34When the protests
06:36take place in Islamabad,
06:38you must remember
06:40that the protests took place
06:42in Faizabad or somewhere else.
06:44We cannot stop the business of life.
06:46So, with the state,
06:48which you call the state,
06:50the government,
06:52the deputy commissioner,
06:54you decide on a place
06:56for the protest.
06:58Your job is to give them
07:00a free hand to do it.
07:02The problem is that
07:04earlier you used to
07:06approve the NOC of the protest.
07:08This is their right.
07:10So, I agree with you
07:12that you should have
07:14a free hand to do it.
07:16How can I agree with you
07:18that if you don't listen to me,
07:20I will shoot you?
07:22No, no.
07:24One day, you will be protesting
07:26in D-Chowk,
07:28and the police will come
07:30and say that you have come to D-Chowk.
07:32Because you don't listen to us.
07:34No, no.
07:3675 years ago,
07:38there were no protests.
07:40They didn't suffer any loss.
07:42Some people lost their lives
07:44because of the bullets.
07:46You are talking about
07:48terrorism.
07:50You are talking about
07:52the state.
07:54Who hanged them?
07:56Who hanged them?
07:58The dictator.
08:00So, they took their weapons?
08:02Yes, they took their weapons.
08:04No, no.
08:06Sir, I am not an
08:08analyst, but I grew up
08:10with this. I know what happened.
08:12One minute. Listen to me.
08:14What didn't happen with ANP?
08:16In Pindi, they brought
08:18guns.
08:20I agree with you
08:22that there should be
08:24no guns.
08:26Next thing.
08:28I have to give you footage
08:30of SP.
08:32He was shot in the face
08:34with an axe.
08:36I have to take you with me.
08:38So, why are they laughing?
08:40No, it's not like that.
08:42It's wrong.
08:44I spoke to the DPO
08:46Attuk.
08:48I know him very well.
08:50I didn't think he should have
08:52given a press conference.
08:54He had his own view.
08:56He thinks the protestors
08:58used force.
09:00That is also wrong.
09:02Let's try to settle this
09:04in the middle.
09:06He took permission to go to all the places.
09:09He did that for 24 hours.
09:12He was asked to sit at one place for 24 hours.
09:17The whole party agreed.
09:19But his party was hijacked from the Adiala.
09:23How was it hijacked from the Adiala?
09:25His wife brought him there.
09:28Who brought him there?
09:30Who brought him?
09:32Imran Khan.
09:33Imran Khan's wife brought him there.
09:36Didn't Somnawaz Sahiba bring him there?
09:38No.
09:39There was a party with Somnawaz.
09:41There was a party here?
09:43No. The whole party told him to sit there.
09:46Today they say that this is their biggest mistake.
09:50Before coming to you, let me give you a stated position.
09:53Ishaq Dar is speaking the truth or Mohsin Naqvi is speaking the truth?
09:56No.
09:57Was the bullet fired or not?
09:58No.
09:59Ishaq Dar is speaking the truth.
10:01You are only showing a part of it.
10:03The bullet was not fired.
10:05What is the difference?
10:07The bullet was not fired.
10:08The bullet was not fired.
10:10The bullet was not fired.
10:12The bullet was not fired.
10:14The bullet was not fired.
10:17The bullet was not fired.
10:19The bullet was not fired.
10:20The bullet was not fired.
10:21The bullet was not fired.
10:22The bullet was not fired.
10:23The bullet was not fired.
10:25What kind of bullets were there?
10:27Some MLA was not shot.
10:28Some MPA was not shot.
10:29Some Rehnama was not shot.
10:31Some relative was not shot.
10:32Some staff was not shot.
10:34Those people were shot, even they don't know their homes.
10:36Should we take them to their homes?
10:38I heard a speech yesterday in the Senate and the Commission.
10:41You should tell us who are these people.
10:43That's their argument.
10:44You should tell us who are these people.
10:46Did you collect any evidence?
10:48Thank you Abbas sir.
10:49Thank you for inviting me.
10:50I hope you will give me some time.
10:53First of all, when the Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif shot people in Lahore for more than 12 hours,
11:06and when the police were attacking people, he denied it.
11:11But when the footage came, the evidence,
11:15he shot people, women and pregnant women.
11:21This is a true fact.
11:23You should deny it.
11:24After that, on 24th November,
11:26the peaceful protestors from Pakistan came here.
11:29They came from 24th November.
11:30They were hungry, thirsty and cold.
11:33They did not come here to fight for their land.
11:36They were not hungry.
11:37I saw that many people were feeding them.
11:39This is the love of the people of Islamabad.
11:41This is the love of the people of the village.
11:43They came here.
11:44They did not come here to fight for their land.
11:46They did not come here to plough the land.
11:48They did not come here to loot the bank.
11:50They came here for the views.
11:51They were very conscious people.
11:53Their argument is,
11:54because if it was not for the speech of the Chief Minister,
11:56this issue would have been settled.
11:58It was not settled.
11:59It was suppressed.
12:00But their argument is,
12:01we will give you a place.
12:04The state will give you a place.
12:06You must remember,
12:07Maulana Fazlur Rahman was coming.
12:08You gave a place.
12:09Maulana Fazlur Rahman came and sat there.
12:11He did the entire protest.
12:12When the Muslim League Noon
12:13and the People's Party came,
12:14they came with the inflationary protest march.
12:17Your government had already decided to fall.
12:19They came.
12:20At that time too,
12:21you gave them a place.
12:22You gave them a place where Maulana Fazlur Rahman was sitting.
12:24The protest took place there.
12:25He says,
12:26take our place where you are sitting.
12:27Okay.
12:28Now I will answer this.
12:29When they came here,
12:30they turned off their electricity for 12 hours
12:33without any warning.
12:35I am also a political activist.
12:37And all the women,
12:38including me,
12:39are dragged on the streets
12:40by Mr. Talal's government.
12:42We are put in jail.
12:45Sometimes under 16 MPs,
12:46sometimes under 3 MPs.
12:48We have also eaten water cannons.
12:49We have also eaten shelling.
12:50We have also eaten rubber bullets.
12:51We have also eaten lathi charge.
12:53All this is under their government.
12:55But at that time,
12:56when people were oppressed
12:57by turning off the electricity for 12 hours,
12:59even if you had allowed the Singhs to go,
13:01okay,
13:02you gave,
13:03you offered to allow the Singhs to go.
13:05You,
13:06whose examples you gave,
13:07when the inflationary protest march came,
13:09then at that time too,
13:10you sat at a certain place.
13:12Despite this,
13:13what they offered,
13:15if the peaceful protestors of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf
13:17did not go on that offer,
13:19which I want to register,
13:21you can watch the videos,
13:23in which they are reciting the national anthem of Pakistan.
13:26There,
13:27do they have any evidence
13:28from Talal Chaudhry's government
13:29to shoot him?
13:31Do they have any evidence
13:32to trap him?
13:33And they said,
13:34yes,
13:35take us to someone.
13:36I will take them.
13:37Dera Ghazi Khan should come.
13:38Let's go to Shafiq Lund's house.
13:39The one who is with me is related to him.
13:41For three days,
13:42his body was kept in the hospital.
13:44His family kept writing to him,
13:46that you will only bury this body,
13:48when you write that he died in an accident.
13:50Come with me,
13:51I will take him there.
13:52Second,
13:53second,
13:54they said,
13:55if there was no evidence,
13:56or if
13:57the people living there
13:58had any weapon,
13:59I think,
14:00because their politics
14:01has become such a stick and bullet government,
14:04they have gone into so much denial,
14:06they have become so used to
14:07ruling on their own.
14:08I say,
14:09leave the evidence.
14:10I say,
14:11leave the videos.
14:12Here is your parliament,
14:13here is your Prime Minister's house.
14:15The protest has been going on for three days.
14:17Did you bother to go to those people?
14:19Did you bother to go and talk to them?
14:22No?
14:23You are hiding behind the container,
14:25and the one who is being dropped from the container,
14:27you are giving evidence
14:28that it was done very well,
14:29to drop him.
14:30A judicial commission,
14:31tell me one thing,
14:32you are going towards a conflict resolution.
14:34Last,
14:35I just want to say one last thing,
14:37that PMLN,
14:38no matter how much evidence they give,
14:40it is not enough for the people,
14:42and I am happy that
14:43today in Kashif Abbasi's program,
14:45Of The Record,
14:46Talal Chaudhry has accepted this,
14:48as a senator of PMLN,
14:50he said that
14:51neither the army fired a bullet,
14:53nor did anyone else fire a bullet,
14:55he said that
14:56the government,
14:57Shahbaz Sharif's government,
14:59called the Law Enforcement Agency,
15:01on the pretext of that,
15:02he said that
15:03we fired a bullet towards the operation,
15:04because when you are in front of us,
15:06when we talk about the FIR,
15:08It is still undecided,
15:09whether they want to take this side,
15:10or they want to take the other side.
15:11A little while ago,
15:12in The Record,
15:13he said that
15:14the government fired a bullet,
15:15the government called the army,
15:16I said,
15:17remove my line.
15:18And, and,
15:19I think she is talking about the speech,
15:20the speech that you did.
15:21Now he said,
15:22second,
15:23Kashif,
15:24listen to me from Abbasi,
15:25when we go,
15:26people ask us,
15:27against whom will you file the FIR?
15:29Today in your program,
15:30Talal Chaudhry has accepted,
15:32that all the Law Enforcement Agency,
15:34they did not do their own will,
15:35they did everything on their own will,
15:37hence,
15:38they cannot get away with it.
15:40Sir,
15:41the real question is,
15:42like,
15:43now,
15:44you people,
15:45have opened a Pandora's box,
15:46by saying that,
15:47there was a firing.
15:48Make a Judicial Commission,
15:50to decide,
15:51whether there was a firing or not,
15:52and then what will happen?
15:54This will settle everything.
15:56And along with that,
15:57the government and Talal Chaudhry,
15:58should also have the courage,
15:59that,
16:00Dera Ghazi Khan will go there,
16:01he will face the public,
16:02he will go to Shafiq Lund's house.
16:04The Commission will be made,
16:05all these things,
16:06you will tell the evidences,
16:07you will tell the people,
16:08in that,
16:09your program will be censored,
16:10otherwise,
16:11I will show you the video,
16:12of Shafiq Lund,
16:13like,
16:14he is a friend and a helper,
16:15see,
16:16Kashif Abbasi,
16:17as much as you want,
16:18if someone is dear to you,
16:19when he dies,
16:20you hand him over to the soil,
16:21the soil is entrusted to you,
16:22this is Allah's,
16:23that we,
16:24as Muslims,
16:25bury him here.
16:26You did not let the corpses be buried,
16:28you did not let the corpses be buried,
16:29for three days,
16:30you blackmailed people,
16:31that we will not give you the corpses,
16:32I was told,
16:33that you will go to Dera Ghazi Khan,
16:34to his house,
16:35to do Fatiha.
16:36Yes Madam,
16:37the problem is that,
16:38you make a commission,
16:39I will make a commission,
16:40I will answer two things,
16:41her being a woman,
16:42on her head,
16:43our mothers,
16:44sisters,
16:45I was present in that hotel,
16:46in Karachi,
16:47whose rangers,
16:48at that time,
16:49because of their government,
16:50had broken the doors,
16:51and Mariam Sahiba,
16:52in her bedroom,
16:53I do not want to remind her,
16:54of the rest of the things,
16:55next thing,
16:57I have been late,
16:58in your program,
16:59sometimes I cry,
17:00that they have given me,
17:01more than 100 applications,
17:02for 788 speeches,
17:03leave this,
17:04next thing,
17:05she is saying,
17:06that if a worker,
17:07has been martyred,
17:08I am sorry,
17:09but,
17:10why are you people,
17:11so weak,
17:12that you could not even,
17:13come to take the corpses,
17:14that is,
17:15I am getting information,
17:16about one person,
17:17and you are giving me,
17:18information about another person,
17:19and you are giving me,
17:20information about another person,
17:21and you are giving me,
17:22information about another person,
17:23and you are giving me,
17:24information about another person,
17:25and you are giving me,
17:26information about another person,
17:27from 27470,
17:28how many,
17:29you were saying,
17:3027470,
17:31maybe Khakha Nabassi,
17:32has said on TV,
17:33that two corpses,
17:34two people,
17:35were killed,
17:36I am saying,
17:37I am saying,
17:38look,
17:39let us talk about 27470,
17:40sir,
17:41if 10 or 12,
17:42I am saying,
17:43that is a big number,
17:44listen to me,
17:45listen to me,
17:46you say only one thing,
17:47which is right,
17:48one minute,
17:49but,
17:50God forbid,
17:51you say 300,
17:52and then,
17:53you have,
17:54but,
17:55sir,
17:56has said,
17:57that 12 is our number,
17:58and,
17:59we have the evidence,
18:00other than that,
18:01he has not said anything else,
18:02and 200 are missing,
18:03but we are saying,
18:04that tell us,
18:05where they are,
18:06who said 300,
18:07he said,
18:08who said 200,
18:09he said,
18:1027470,
18:11he said,
18:12ok,
18:13this was my request,
18:14he,
18:15has not been able to give,
18:167 names till date,
18:17ok,
18:18next thing,
18:19this,
18:20this,
18:21lame excuse,
18:22that he should,
18:23But that's not a lame excuse, that's a good debauchery.
18:27Wait a minute, wait a minute.
18:28The shells that were there,
18:30they kept running on your TV, their people kept running them.
18:34The shells that were there,
18:35I will take you to the SP who has his mouth cut off.
18:39Okay?
18:40The rangers who were martyred,
18:44is that permissible?
18:45No, no, absolutely not.
18:46Okay, let's go.
18:47The police...
18:48No, no, the police spy who was martyred...
18:51Okay, let's go to the next thing.
18:55The minister of the province came in a bulletproof car.
18:59The minister of the province himself was in a bulletproof car
19:01and while running, he got a firing done to get out.
19:06Did he get it done?
19:07He shot himself in his own gun,
19:09he and Bushra Bibi.
19:12We didn't have any other footage of the firing.
19:14And secondly,
19:15the request is this,
19:16I will tell you one thing,
19:19the political stability that has come to Pakistan,
19:22which has benefited the economy,
19:24we will not let it be lost.
19:26There is no stability.
19:27Okay, you think so.
19:28There is no stability.
19:29One minute,
19:30the stock exchange is at Rs 1,13,000,
19:32there is no stability.
19:33One minute, is the dollar in control or not?
19:35One minute, one minute.
19:36Kashif Basitab, talk to me.
19:37Is the dollar in control?
19:38Yes.
19:39One minute, what is the inflation rate?
19:40The dollar is still...
19:41One minute, what is the inflation rate?
19:42Your finance minister will tell you,
19:44the dollar is still above the real value.
19:46One minute.
19:47It should be around Rs 240.
19:48One minute.
19:49The problem is that the inflation rate,
19:51I agree with what you said,
19:52the inflation rate means that
19:54the inflation rate that has happened,
19:56the inflation rate has increased by 4%.
19:58I am coming to that.
20:00I am coming to that.
20:01I am coming to Pakistan's...
20:02This is not called stability, sir.
20:03No, no.
20:04Stability is when all the issues are settled.
20:06Sir, you...
20:07In your system,
20:08there is no capacity for conflict resolution.
20:11So, stability is when,
20:13what is it called,
20:14Saqib Nassar is sitting.
20:16No, no.
20:17Stability is when
20:18the Chief of Army Staff
20:19is announced in the next 10 years.
20:21And stability is when
20:23you say that
20:24I will remove the fan of prisoners,
20:25I will do this and that,
20:26I will not shake hands with a thief.
20:28I am not a thief today.
20:29You are not a thief like today.
20:31All the speeches have been on this today.
20:33I am seeing that you have repeatedly
20:35talked about negotiations.
20:37And this time you want to negotiate
20:38with the politicians.
20:39People say,
20:40we are not thieves and robbers
20:41to talk to them.
20:42Okay.
20:43I think that,
20:44everyone knows their character.
20:46If someone wants
20:47a certificate of a thief or a robber,
20:48they know their deeds.
20:49If I say this or that,
20:50nothing will happen.
20:51But is that an irrelevant issue now?
20:52Because earlier,
20:53Imran Khan sir,
20:54for a year or two years,
20:56whenever he was asked to negotiate,
20:57he used to say,
20:58do it with the establishment.
20:59Don't do it with them.
21:00Now you are saying,
21:01yes, they have also come.
21:02They want to do it with the government.
21:03Today,
21:04I met Asad Qaisarzad's speaker.
21:06Why is this change of
21:07policy position happening?
21:09I hope you will give me a time again.
21:11Because I met Khan sir
21:12in Adiala Jail myself.
21:13My jail trial is going on
21:14with Khan sir in a bogus case.
21:16Me, myself and Umar Ayub sir
21:18and all of us started telling him
21:20that how positive is Mr. Zahid's character.
21:22What does Maulana Fazar Rehman sir say?
21:25I myself told some anchors
21:27that in such a hostile situation,
21:29Khan sir,
21:30such kind of anchors,
21:31because for 5-7 hours,
21:32we had a charge frame,
21:33arguments were going on.
21:34So, we had a lot of time.
21:36So, I said that
21:37even in such a hostile situation,
21:38people are trying to do
21:39positive reporting
21:40to the real facts.
21:42So, from there,
21:43this conversation started.
21:44So, Khan sir said,
21:45let's make a committee
21:46to dialogue.
21:47It's a positive thing.
21:48It's a positive thing.
21:49I agree.
21:50I have been thinking
21:51to talk to politicians
21:52since the first day.
21:53Exactly.
21:54But you didn't want to.
21:55No.
21:56This sudden change of heart,
21:57I want to know.
21:58So, I am saying that
21:59this happened in front of me.
22:00So, Khan sir said,
22:01this is a positive thing.
22:02See, the time
22:03when he was in solitary confinement,
22:04Is he with a precondition
22:05or without a precondition?
22:06No, no.
22:07Because he came out
22:08of solitary confinement,
22:09after so many days,
22:10he met his workers
22:11and we met him.
22:12When we told him
22:13about the situation,
22:14he said,
22:15okay,
22:16I am going to leave
22:17the solitary confinement
22:18which has put me
22:19in a lot of trouble.
22:20If you think
22:21that I will make
22:22this political committee
22:23and if they want to dialogue,
22:24then you have a mandate.
22:25Just two or three things.
22:26Can we talk after the break?
22:27I have to take a break.
22:28Then you will give me a time.
22:29Let's take a break.
22:31We will come back after the break.
22:32This change of heart
22:33that we have to talk
22:34to the government,
22:35what is the reason for this?
22:36Let's take a break.
22:37We will be back after the break.
22:42Welcome back Nazeem.
22:43Talal Chaudhary is with us.
22:44Zartaj Gul is with us.
22:46You were saying
22:47before the break
22:48that I am asking this
22:49question because
22:51whenever I used to have a talk
22:52with Mr. Imran Khan,
22:53whenever I used to have a talk
22:54with him,
22:55whenever I used to have a talk
22:56with him,
22:57to have a talk with the government,
22:58he used to give every evidence.
22:59Look,
23:00he has nothing.
23:01What is his problem?
23:02He is powerless.
23:03The powerful ones
23:04will talk to them.
23:05This sudden change
23:06of heart
23:07that everyone
23:08comes to talk,
23:09it shows
23:10This is my theory, that you are feeling pressure.
23:12The pressure that you are feeling, now we are willing to talk to anybody.
23:17We are a political party, we have fought for 27-28 years.
23:20I think if we don't have any personal interest,
23:23despite so much difficulty,
23:25our people are martyred, we are in jail,
23:28our party has been tried to break.
23:30My leader Khan Sahib is also in jail.
23:32Despite this, we are expressing our feelings.
23:35And we believe in a political dialogue.
23:37I think Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaaf has reached its maturity level.
23:41Now it is the responsibility of the government.
23:42I just wanted to say a few things.
23:44Talal Sahib said that we had filed an FIR against him.
23:48In my memory, although I am a Pathan, I don't think I can say this much.
23:52I remember, he told the judiciary that you are idols.
23:55PC people.
23:56Yes, he said that we will break your idols.
23:59And someone said that we will make you eat chickpeas,
24:02we are iron chickpeas, something like that.
24:04He was disqualified because we filed an FIR against him.
24:08Secondly, he said that the rate of government...
24:12Listen to me.
24:12No, no, the rate of government...
24:13Let's leave this.
24:14No, no.
24:14You have given a lot of FIRs.
24:15Let's leave that.
24:16Anyway, he said that the rate of government should be based on the same people
24:20or the same ban outfits.
24:22It is done by force, but people are not killed.
24:25Yes, by firing on PC protesters.
24:27One more point that he will raise,
24:29I will ask before that.
24:31First of all, you are giving a deadline.
24:33It is the deadline of 14th.
24:34I think you are talking from a position of weakness.
24:37But you have also given a call for civil disobedience.
24:41You have also given a call for 14th.
24:43If this happens, then...
24:44Today, I was listening to Irfan Siddiqui's speech.
24:46I am sure...
24:47Yes, Mr. Talal also said the same thing.
24:48How do you give deadlines,
24:50you give threats and then you talk.
24:52Is that a fair way of putting it?
24:56Let me tell you a clear policy on this.
24:59Civil disobedience is the last option and the last resort.
25:04On 15th, we will call for the solidarity of Kulkhani and all his families
25:09for all the martyrs in KPK and we will also call the international media.
25:14On 15th, we will call for the solidarity of Kulkhani and all his families
25:19for all the martyrs in KPK and we will also call for the solidarity of Kulkhani and all his families.
25:21So, we will do that first.
25:24As far as Irfan Siddiqui is concerned...
25:27What do you mean by the last resort?
25:28Civil disobedience is not happening yet.
25:30We will call for Kulkhani on 15th and then we will tell you what to do next.
25:36So, the announcement of civil disobedience has been withdrawn.
25:38No, it has not been withdrawn.
25:40Our option is still there.
25:41It has been postponed.
25:43Our option is still there.
25:45It has been postponed.
25:45Exactly.
25:47I am saying that our option is still there.
25:48So, they have postponed the civil disobedience.
25:50No, our option is still there but we will call for Kulkhani on Sunday for our martyrs.
25:53Secondly, you said that suddenly...
25:56Listen to me.
25:57When we will sit at the table...
25:59And I am sure that we will sit at the table
26:00because the government cannot negate the biggest community of Pakistan.
26:04When we will sit at the table, we will talk about the martyrs.
26:06Then, we will talk about everything.
26:07Then, we will talk about the assault mandate.
26:09Exactly.
26:10So, we cannot reveal the truth at the table.
26:11They want to sit at the table.
26:13You said earlier that they want to talk to us.
26:14They want to sit at the table.
26:16Why do you have tension?
26:17Why don't you want to talk to them?
26:18Whenever we have offered them to talk,
26:22the opposition has told them that they should not do it.
26:27When the protest took place in 2014-15,
26:30they were offered to talk.
26:33Now, whenever we talk to them,
26:37they think that the government has become weak.
26:39Secondly, we should talk to them.
26:41We should talk to them in a political manner and with a political community.
26:45Okay?
26:46The heinous crimes or the crimes of rebellion,
26:52whether they are being punished or not,
26:56and now this is a tactical move,
26:59which is called a chance in Punjabi.
27:01What do you have to do by giving a chance?
27:03You are talking about me.
27:05I mean, they should get involved in this and somehow spend this time.
27:10And somehow save Mr. Faiz.
27:14And I am surprised.
27:15Even today, I have said that the one who put you in trouble at the right time,
27:19now they say that they don't know him.
27:21They don't know who he was.
27:22Okay?
27:23Now, save him and save yourself from him.
27:26After that, we will see what they have to do.
27:28And they are saying that our Haleema Khan is saying that you have the last card.
27:33She is saying that she will tell it to the 15th.
27:35We will see the 15th.
27:36You have thought a lot.
27:37No, we will see the 15th.
27:40You do this, you do this card.
27:42You do the non-compliance once.
27:43It's not a big deal.
27:44And who is there to joke around?
27:46Do it in January.
27:47Do it and see.
27:48So, you are saying that first execute all your political plans.
27:52And then see what happens.
27:53And then see what happens.
27:54Is the government thinking that there should be negotiations?
27:58We have to reduce the temperature.
28:01Because now I feel that the PTI people have come on many prayers
28:06that we are political parties, we are not enemies.
28:08Please talk.
28:09First of all, there should be a discussion on terrorism.
28:12There is a forum for it.
28:14There should be a discussion on Pakistan's economy.
28:17We have offered many times that we should come to the Charter of Democracy.
28:21Why don't you talk about the system?
28:23We have talked about the Charter of Democracy.
28:25Does it work according to the law or not?
28:26That's why I am coming to the Charter of Democracy.
28:27Everything is written in the Charter of Democracy.
28:30It doesn't make sense.
28:31On the 26th of January,
28:33on their request, we have taken out so many coins
28:35that their representative said that
28:39now the deal is fine and acceptable,
28:42but we will have to ask Dialla once.
28:45Okay?
28:46This is the request.
28:47This is like a conversation.
28:50And see this.
28:50So, it won't happen.
28:51No, no, no.
28:52No, no, no.
28:53There is still a threat here.
28:54On the 15th.
28:56Those who have not gone to Kulkhani,
28:58first of all, the lawyers should hold your collar.
29:01You ran in bulletproof cars
29:03and left the corpses of our children there
29:05if someone died.
29:07There were corpses there.
29:08One minute.
29:08According to them,
29:09the corpses that they have brought,
29:11listen to me,
29:13how can you say that
29:14no MPA of yours was shot,
29:16no MNA was shot,
29:17no relative was shot,
29:19no important official was shot.
29:21And after that, you can also say that
29:23your TV minister can't see the bullet,
29:25but your Deputy Prime Minister can see the bullet.
29:28Listen to my request.
29:28The briefing that has been given to the Deputy Prime Minister,
29:31the bullets that have been shot in it,
29:32the briefing that has been given to the Deputy Prime Minister,
29:33it is not mentioned in it.
29:34Sir, come ahead of that.
29:35Now, people have been buried.
29:38The world will be quiet, right?
29:40Hey, your cowardice,
29:42you are behind the corpses,
29:43and sometimes you are on the Pakhtoon,
29:45on the Pakhtoons.
29:46Hey, the four rangers who were martyred,
29:49there were two Pakhtoons in them.
29:51The wounded,
29:52there were many officers Pakhtoons in them.
29:53Whoever,
29:54deaths from both sides,
29:56this country needs to move away from this.
29:59This, you know, when will it happen?
30:00After 35 punctures,
30:02there was a political statement.
30:04275 corpses,
30:05now above the levels of 70.
30:07Oh man, God,
30:08look, I can't talk with this mindset.
30:11And second,
30:11sir, it can't be done.
30:12No, second,
30:13right now there is a card of civil disobedience,
30:16there is another card,
30:17you play the card once,
30:19then you'll see.
30:20So, am I right in understanding that
30:23it won't happen?
30:23No, no, look at the conversation.
30:24If there is a conversation to save Faizul Meed,
30:27I think the problem is that I don't think the government can talk to you.
30:34No, no, their attitude is political.
30:36They are saying that first play your political cards and then talk to us.
30:41I think the problem is that I don't think the government can talk to you.
30:44No, no, their attitude is political.
30:46They are saying that first play your political cards and then talk to us.
30:50I think the problem is that I don't think the government can talk to you.
30:53No, no, their attitude is political.
31:23They should not jump into the conclusion.
31:53I think the problem is that I don't think the government can talk to you.
31:56No, no, their attitude is political.
31:58They should not jump into the conclusion.
32:00I think the problem is that I don't think the government can talk to you.
32:03No, no, their attitude is political.
32:05They should not jump into the conclusion.
32:07I think the problem is that I don't think the government can talk to you.
32:10No, no, their attitude is political.
32:12They should not jump into the conclusion.
32:14I think the problem is that I don't think the government can talk to you.
32:17No, no, their attitude is political.
32:19They should not jump into the conclusion.
32:21It is a very serious issue if the army is doing this with their DG-ISI.
32:27I never thought that unless the situation changes a lot,
32:32that an army general, especially DG-ISI, would be being trialled in this way.
32:38I never thought of this.
32:39Again, if this is such a serious issue, it is the internal matter of the army.
32:43You can try whatever you want.
32:46Pakistan is a victim of injustice before as well.
32:49We always come out on top.
32:51You will have to face this injustice and the 10 BPML and General Faiz.
32:55We have nothing to do with this.
32:56Did you have anything to do with this?
32:58That is why I am saying that time will tell.
33:00I want to ask you a question.
33:02This is an honest question.
33:03You don't let me speak.
33:04Madam, I want to ask you a question.
33:05When you spend time with Mr. Khan, when you said you had 5 hours,
33:08did somebody ask you if you had anything to do with Mr. Faiz Ameer?
33:11No, no.
33:12When he was the Prime Minister, obviously everyone had to follow a protocol.
33:16DG-ISI had to do it.
33:18After that, we have our own political party.
33:21We have not come under General Zia-ul-Haq or General Jilani.
33:24We have our own struggle for justice.
33:26We come with a vote.
33:27We don't come in a burqa or a car.
33:29Pakistan believes in justice.
33:32We have shown our maturity.
33:34If someone thinks this is their weakness,
33:36and here with me, with a state of mind,
33:38Sultan Rahim, you can make fun of us.
33:41You can make fun of us.
33:42We are not in some filmy situation.
33:44We are not in a Punjabi film.
33:47The reality is that you have shot innocent people.
33:50You can deny it.
33:51You will be hanged.
33:52You stole the election.
33:53You can deny it.
33:54You will be hanged.
33:55You tried to end the Pakistan-Tariq-e-Ishaq.
33:58We have come back.
33:59We have come back with power.
34:00So, what you are saying,
34:03we will kill that, we will kill this,
34:05we will put a veil over it.
34:06This will not spare you.
34:08Accept that one day you have to show your face.
34:11You have to show your face to people.
34:12You have to show your face to Allah.
34:14Yes, if you make a dialogue on the Punjabi films of Sultan Rahim,
34:18then I am sorry, you have already been disqualified for 5 years.
34:21When you called the judges Buddhists,
34:22you are still a young man.
34:23But, but, but,
34:24This statement that you are making about Sultan Rahim,
34:27It is good for optics.
34:28It is good for optics.
34:29It is close to what we have seen from Tariq-e-Ishaq,
34:32in the last 4-5 years.
34:33Khan Sahib, even in the most difficult times,
34:35he went to meetings.
34:36India was about to be attacked.
34:38Believe me,
34:39that day, we found out,
34:41I got a call from your government,
34:42from your government,
34:43a very senior minister.
34:44He said,
34:45Khan Sahib, we are about to be attacked at 10 o'clock.
34:46This time was given,
34:47exact time.
34:48The day the meeting took place,
34:49and Khan Sahib said,
34:50I am not sitting with them.
34:51So,
34:52look,
34:53Sultan Rahim,
34:54he said,
34:55in the last 10 years,
34:56we have been telling you,
34:57Mahesh Sahib,
34:58sit on something.
34:59Miss Aqib,
35:00Miss Aqib,
35:01Miss Aqib,
35:02Miss Aqib,
35:03Miss Aqib,
35:04Miss Aqib,
35:05Miss Aqib,
35:06Miss Aqib,
35:07Miss Aqib,
35:08Miss Aqib,
35:09Miss Aqib,
35:10Miss Aqib,
35:11You answer me,
35:12if it is said that
35:1320-24 election,
35:14someone else won.
35:15The mandate belonged to someone else,
35:16and they gave it to someone else,
35:17then we will have
35:18to start the matter from 2018.
35:19You return our mandate
35:20of 2018.
35:21We take him
35:22and complete our term.
35:23Then you take the mandate
35:24of 20-24
35:25and then you complete
35:26his term.
35:27Two wrongs
35:28don't make one right.
35:29I am saying no.
35:30He himself says,
35:31two wrongs
35:32don't make one right
35:33but there is an admission in this.
35:34They are admitting
35:35that the 20-24 election
35:36was stolen.
35:37You give us
35:38the 2018 election,
35:39which is generally
35:40He is saying that the election of South Punjab and Maharashtra was stolen in 2018 and 2024.
35:47You give us 2018, we will give you 2024 after completing our term.
35:51Mr. Talal, after the break, I will take his answer.
35:55Welcome back, Mr. Naseem.
35:56Mr. Talal, did they agree that the election of 2024 was stolen?
35:59I think that the speeches in Mids and Pieces, they said that this was your allegation, this was our allegation.
36:07They said that you say 2024, we say 2018 was also stolen.
36:10You give us the mandate of 2018, we will complete our term, then you take the mandate of 2024.
36:15I said that our…
36:16Your new prime minister has raised you well.
36:20No, no, no.
36:21Our new prime minister has given a speech on big facts.
36:24And don't run it in Bits and Pieces, overall.
36:26Rest, this…
36:27No Bits and Pieces.
36:28This is what they said to me.
36:29She is still saying that we have won, this is in the government documents.
36:33Good documents.
36:34Now they want to talk to the documents.
36:36This is the reality.
36:37De facto.
36:38Thank you very much to both the guests for the conversation.
36:41Allah Hafiz.