Vanessa Cho, Design Partner, Google Ventures, In conversation with Clay Chandler, Fortune
Category
🤖
TechTranscript
00:00Vanessa, thank you for being here.
00:01It's great to see you.
00:02Vanessa came direct from Seoul, and we
00:05were worried that she wasn't going to quite get out
00:07of the airport for a moment there.
00:09But we're delighted to have you.
00:11Vanessa, you have a unique perspective in our program
00:15today, because you're looking at design
00:17from the investment side, which is a really fascinating
00:21perspective.
00:23Tell us a little bit about GV, Google Ventures as it's known,
00:27where it kind of sits in the organization,
00:30and how it came to be.
00:33Yeah, for sure.
00:34So GV is a venture capital firm.
00:37It's backed by Alphabet, but it is a non-strategic,
00:40which explains our diverse investments
00:42in all different types of industries,
00:44may it be consumer tech, or enterprise software,
00:48life sciences, or frontier tech.
00:51We have around $10 billion in terms of AUM.
00:54We're a multi-stage, everything from incubation
00:57all the way to late stage.
00:59And I'd say it's just like we have over 400 active portfolio
01:02companies right now, with our notable investments being
01:05Slack, or Stripe, Uber, Nest, Duo Security, and One Medical.
01:12Wow.
01:12So it really spans a variety of different sectors.
01:15It does, yes, absolutely.
01:18Anything where it's just like the intersection
01:20of the industry and technology, and accelerating it
01:22to actually make disruptive changes,
01:25we're probably having a conversation.
01:27One thing that's really notable about GV
01:28is it has this really world class design team, which
01:33a lot of venture funds don't really
01:35think to have a staff of designers
01:38to offer a perspective.
01:40Tell us about that, and why Google is structured that way,
01:42and what does your team look like?
01:44Yeah, for sure.
01:45I mean, what we'll say is like at GV,
01:47we just believe that design is critical
01:50for a successful company.
01:52So it's baked into our DNA.
01:55It's core to our DNA.
01:57So much so that when GV was first opening up its doors
02:00and hiring its first batch of investors,
02:02we hired a design partner, and then
02:04had built out a design team.
02:06And so I think the thing is there's
02:08a reason why GV actually has the longest running design
02:12team in venture capital.
02:14It's just something we fundamentally actually
02:16believe in.
02:17I happen to run the design function,
02:19along with two colleagues, Kate Aronovitz,
02:22who ran design at Facebook, or Meta, and LinkedIn,
02:25and then Michael Margolis, arguably one of the best,
02:28if not the best, user researchers in our startup
02:31industry as well.
02:32And together, the three of us, we
02:34act as coaches, advisors, sometimes therapists,
02:39but mostly as truth bearers to our founders, who
02:42are looking to learn how to actually leverage design
02:45and user research to actually mitigate risk and accelerate
02:49business decisions.
02:50So tell us about the different levels
02:52of maturity of the different companies in your portfolio.
02:55Are they mostly later stage startups,
02:57or do you have also early stage, and where are they in there?
03:02Yeah, for sure.
03:03No, we have everything.
03:04We have the whole blend of everything as well.
03:06It's just like anything from Stripe, which arguably
03:09is just like our friend, just like incredibly esteemed
03:12colleague, Katie Dill, is running that particular design
03:14team, to sometimes we have a person who doesn't even
03:18identify themselves yet as a founder.
03:20They have an idea, they're a subject matter expert,
03:23and they're deciding if they actually
03:25should take a bet on this assumption,
03:28and if it is the right time and the right stage.
03:30That's really interesting.
03:31So Nick, in his introduction, alluded a little bit
03:33to this question.
03:34But for these younger companies that
03:38are in the early stage of development,
03:40design can often seen as this kind of nice to have,
03:43rather than something that's essential.
03:45What do you say to early stage startups about how they
03:50need to think about design?
03:51Yeah, I mean, I think what I would say
03:53is it depends how you define design.
03:55If you're defining design as some mere visual polish,
04:00probably I would say it's not that essential for a startup,
04:03because we're just trying to find product market fit.
04:05We're trying to figure out who our core customer is,
04:08and how do we actually deliver an experience for them.
04:11Now, if you're talking about design
04:12with what we call a capital D, where it's all encompassing,
04:17I would say it's absolutely essential.
04:19It would be similar to when we had said,
04:21let's say you and I are building a house together.
04:24It's like visual polish is an interior decorator.
04:26We do not need to hire an interior decorator when
04:28we don't yet even know what the foundation of the house
04:31will be.
04:31Do we need to hire an architect?
04:33Absolutely.
04:34We need to have conversations about who
04:36is this family moving in?
04:37How large is this family now?
04:39How large will they actually be?
04:41How many bathrooms and bedrooms?
04:42Do we need to make sure it's accessible?
04:45How accessible is this building actually going to be?
04:47And so that's often the conversations we actually have,
04:50and why we think it is so critical for design
04:53to actually have a role in a startup.
04:55It reduces costs.
04:57It saves money.
04:58And then to be honest, just being on the investing side,
05:01when a founder comes in for a pitch
05:02to actually ask for money, it is so clear and evident
05:06when they actually have a good foundation in design.
05:09It gives you a lot of confidence as an investor,
05:11being like, oh, they're very close to the customer.
05:14They're listening to the customer.
05:15They can be nimble.
05:16They can be adaptive.
05:18They know how to actually build a scalable product,
05:20and they're always thinking about a trustworthy brand
05:23that actually can scale.
05:24Those are the things that we actually really think about
05:27day in, day out.
05:28Yeah, and the skills of designers can really help them
05:30when things start not going well,
05:32to identify where the problems are
05:34and how the business model needs to be adapted
05:37and adjusted, which is so important.
05:40So tell us a little bit about your background
05:42and your journey to being a designer at GV.
05:45Yeah, so my background is,
05:47we talked about this a little bit.
05:49I was born to Korean parents.
05:52Both of my parents are Korean,
05:53but something a little bit unusual about me
05:55is my dad was a diplomat for the United Nations.
05:58So I'm born and raised in Vienna, Austria.
06:01I lived there for the first 18 years of my life.
06:03And so the thing is, what you think about
06:06with Vienna, Austria, is it's like oftentimes,
06:08I was surrounded, and it's all true.
06:10I was surrounded by music, by art, by culture,
06:14you know, just like all of those things.
06:15But also if you meet someone that's from Vienna, a Viennese,
06:20there's a level of appreciation or like values
06:22of efficiency, timeliness, and optimization.
06:25So I think I'm a perfect blend of a Viennese,
06:28where it's just like I have deep appreciation for aesthetic,
06:31but I'm also very pragmatic.
06:33And that's kind of how I found myself, you know,
06:35very comfortable with the intersection
06:37of design and business.
06:39So being a kind of multicultural kid gives you
06:41this kind of broader, almost spectrum of empathy
06:44and ability to kind of navigate different cultures.
06:46I think so, yeah.
06:48I mean, I think so.
06:49It's just like being a multicultural kid.
06:50I love how you define me.
06:51I'll take that any day.
06:53But it's just like, you know, believe it or not,
06:56growing up in Austria, there were not that many Asians.
06:59And quite frankly, there were not that many Koreans.
07:01And so at a very early age, I learned to live in a world
07:05that was not designed for me.
07:07And it might sound very lonely, and I think at times,
07:10it probably was a little bit lonely.
07:12But for me now as a designer, I find that it's one
07:14of my superpowers that I actually have.
07:18I never assume an experience is designed for me.
07:21I always ask, who is that core customer,
07:23that ICP that we're going after?
07:26You know, it's just like, what are their pain points?
07:28What behavior are we trying to change?
07:30And how are we making it as easy as possible for them?
07:33I think the other, you know, just like real superpower
07:36it gave to me, again, it's like being an Austrian-Korean
07:39is that I don't fit neatly into any box.
07:43You know, it's just like, show me a demographic survey
07:46that I can fill out where it says, please check here
07:49if you're a Korean-Austrian, like that does not exist,
07:52you know, but I'll be very happy when it does.
07:55But because there was no box for me to check,
07:57there really is no playbook or a path
08:00for me to actually follow.
08:02I'm pretty creative in terms of my perspectives
08:05and the approaches that I actually take.
08:07And that's really what's required in the startup world.
08:10Generally, we ask people to think about things differently
08:13and to also be bold.
08:15You can be bold, you need to be bold.
08:18One thing that we do at GVE is it's like,
08:20imagine, you know, it's just like GVE has a magic wand
08:23and we ask our founders to be like,
08:25what is that one wish that you have
08:28that would really change dramatically and transformatively,
08:31you know, the roadmap that you have?
08:33And so the conversations we have with our founders,
08:35some of the wishes are ambitious,
08:37but some of them are not bold enough.
08:39They're not bold enough.
08:40And one requires a real bold way of thinking,
08:44just like to really differentiate yourself
08:46and elevate yourself from a noisy world
08:48of products right now.
08:50That's fascinating.
08:51So your role as a, you know, being on the investor side
08:55is also, from a design perspective,
08:58can be, I suspect, partly a challenge
09:01because you're not right in the, you know,
09:04the founders are very close to their customers.
09:06They may not know how to think about
09:08what their customers are looking for,
09:11but they're right, you know, at the coalface.
09:13And as an investor,
09:14you're kind of one step removed from that.
09:17And sometimes you're with this company,
09:18sometimes you're with that company,
09:20you're not there around the clock.
09:21Does that little bit of distance get in the way,
09:24make it more of a challenge to have a true design insights,
09:29or is it in some ways an advantage?
09:31Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be in my position
09:33if I wouldn't think that I have a real unfair advantage.
09:36It's just like, I think the thing is,
09:38probably comes in a couple different ways.
09:40The first one is, is that I actually am just curious
09:44and I'm coming in with fresh eyes, right?
09:45And I have no biases built in.
09:47I don't know why or what the trade-offs were
09:50that we built this platform in this particular way.
09:53I'm sure it was complicated,
09:55but all I care about is like, who's the customer,
09:57what is the pain point,
09:58and what are we trying to achieve in terms of an outcome?
10:01So one, I have like, you know, I have no biases.
10:04The second way is like, I am figuratively and literally,
10:08we are invested in the company,
10:10but I actually am not part of the team.
10:12And so because of that, I can ask very provocative
10:16and at times probably also obnoxious questions
10:20that someone on the team probably cannot ask.
10:23What would happen if we actually had to deliver the roadmap
10:26in half the time?
10:27What would we actually cut?
10:29Where is there a risk in the roadmap
10:31that no one's talking about?
10:32What is that quality bar?
10:34Are we hitting that?
10:36And why are we actually being challenged
10:38and not hitting that quality bar?
10:39Those are the questions that I can ask
10:42without the reputational risks that I actually have.
10:46And I think the other thing that an advantage that I have,
10:48you know, being on the outside in is just like,
10:50we run hundreds of customer studies, right?
10:53It's just like, we have the techniques,
10:56the tips, the skills down.
10:58And so actually I had mentioned Michael Margolis,
11:00one of the best user researchers out there.
11:03He has figured out a technique
11:05to actually deliver customer insights at startup speed.
11:08In one day, he can deliver those particular things.
11:11And he just recently actually published a book.
11:13You know, it's free.
11:15It's a free playbook about customer discovery.
11:18You can find it at learnmorefaster.com.
11:22It's just like, I'd highly recommend it.
11:24And it has all of our tips and tricks put in.
11:27And so because we just have the repetition,
11:30we are able to sit from the outside
11:32and actually provide those particular insights
11:35at all times.
11:36Really amazing perspective.
11:39I wonder, you know, you work and travel in Asia quite a lot.
11:43I mean, this is not so uncommon in Silicon Valley
11:45as a way to think about investing.
11:48Is it the same in Asia or has Asia not yet figured out
11:53the power that design can add,
11:55the value that design can add on the investment side?
11:57Oh, I don't, I mean, I always think it's just like,
12:00it is not the same,
12:01but it's value and appropriate,
12:03contextually appropriate for, you know,
12:05just like the culture and the geography that we live in.
12:08I generally believe, and that's why I'm here,
12:10I want to learn everything we can here
12:12and bring it back to Silicon Valley.
12:14But then I also want to share some best practices as well.
12:17One thing that I find that I think is really interesting
12:20is just like, you know, when I compare it to European,
12:23it's just like, we don't have any hierarchy
12:26in terms of the best ideas in Silicon Valley.
12:29If you have a good idea, you actually are allowed
12:32to be kind of obnoxious and you speak up.
12:33And that's something that, you know,
12:34just like at times is a cultural change with other cultures
12:38to make sure that hierarchy actually has no role
12:41in a product roadmap discussion.
12:44Fascinating.
12:45Vanessa, this has been really educational and instructive,
12:49I think, for us, and a lot of lessons and insights here
12:53for startups in this region, as well as globally.
12:56Thank you so much for making the time to be with us.
12:59Thank you so much for having me.