👉 El abogado de Ramírez y Millá, discute la posibilidad de que la policía estuviera implicada en el caso que lleva. Además, plantea dudas sobre la eficacia de la investigación, mencionando un testimonio no explorado lo suficiente y las posibles repercusiones si todas las personas presentes el día del incidente hubieran sido detenidas.
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00:00Dr. Hanson is with us, Dr. Marcelo Hanson, lawyer of Ramírez and Millá-Piqueta.
00:05Doctor, thank you for attending us, as always.
00:10Can you hear us?
00:11Hello, good morning. How are you?
00:12I can hear you, but I can't see you.
00:14Let's see.
00:15Well, but can we still talk?
00:17Yes, yes.
00:18Yes, doctor.
00:19There is something, I subscribe to Piedepágina, which you said a few days ago, right?
00:24As far as if they had arrested all the people who were there that day, today the situation would be different.
00:30You said that, right?
00:33Yes, from the first moment.
00:34Sure?
00:35Not long ago, I said it at the beginning.
00:37Perfect. Now, how were they going to be arrested?
00:40It gives the feeling that the police were involved.
00:43At least Maciel was involved in this, in buying time, disappeared hours, etc.
00:50Well, that's why, Guillermo, my conclusion was based on the experience of what has to be done in a case like this.
00:57Then it was discovered that there were police officers who acted badly,
01:01that possibly they have provided some cover for activities that are not yet determined.
01:08But well, that came later.
01:10Sure.
01:11I did my analysis when I entered the cause, which was 4 or 5 days after the fact.
01:18Sure. Why do I ask you this?
01:20Because...
01:21But there is nothing that one can say, a thought...
01:26No, no, it's not clear.
01:27And what I did, remember that I also pointed out later, analyzing,
01:32that the same thing the healer Ramírez told him when he called him.
01:36No, sure. What happens, doctor, that in the context of what this investigation is,
01:40where one is losing hope and so pendular,
01:44now we return again to the theory that it could have been an accident,
01:48there will be tracks back.
01:50I say, you have the cause in your head.
01:52No, that's not so.
01:53Well, but is there any strong enough evidence
01:57in the cause that this could have been, that it could have been rolled up by a vehicle?
02:03No, there isn't.
02:04And neither is it true what you just said, Guillermo, about the tracks.
02:09What was asked for, and the CIFEBU,
02:12a very detailed report was made of everything that was done so far,
02:16the number of times that each place was tracked,
02:19it even pointed out that the Querella herself did not take care
02:23of providing the necessary binomial,
02:26and was in charge of notifying so that the days that were made concurred,
02:32and now it was sent to analyze a claim that is to drain some lagoons,
02:41which obviously will have to be studied because that is not as simple as saying it.
02:46Of course.
02:47Written on paper, it was not to begin with.
02:49Ah, well, sorry, doctor.
02:50I meant that we gave almost confirmed information.
02:53When one talks about tracks...
02:55Yes, they give a lot of information, but they don't have confirmation.
02:58What I repeat is that whoever says something can have a paper and show it,
03:02or at least show it to you, because so far they are just words.
03:06Doctor, this police report is forceful in terms of the roles that each of the
03:12today impeached have, plus the evidence that will surely continue to be collected,
03:17whether these inquiries are made in the lagoons or not,
03:20but surely the investigation will continue.
03:24This report that we had access to today, is it going to be decisive?
03:28Does it mark the roles that each of the today impeached had?
03:33Look, Germán, good morning.
03:35I read, I went over it, I did a quick first reading,
03:39because we are very busy with the audience right now.
03:43Some audiences are developing.
03:45What happens is that some are not of much importance because they are police officers
03:51who have been appointed in places to be custodians and so on.
03:56They do not bear fruit in the investigation.
04:00But going to the report you are referring to,
04:04a report that still needs to be supplemented for me with other experiences that are in the cause,
04:11and surely there will be an extension report on that.
04:15I estimate that these 10 people from the Federal Police who were appointed to do the task,
04:22have been divided into the same and are being analyzed by each one.
04:27Yes, it is very forceful regarding the position that Ramírez and Millapi have always maintained.
04:34There it is, that's what I was saying.
04:36Also, regarding the statement that we have made as defense lawyers,
04:43in the theory of the case, which is in writing and is in the file,
04:47that Lohan would have left the place with anticipation that they could warn that he left.
04:54Benítez Ramírez and Millapi, today, with these conclusions that we have from the report,
04:58would be, I don't know if free of guilt and charge,
05:01but they would not have the role that they could have.
05:04Well, Maciel discarded, obviously,
05:07but also Laudelina, Pérez and Caillaba, who would be the most complicated.
05:13Look, regarding Benítez, I always said the same thing,
05:17and I reiterate so that you do not forget,
05:19that I say that Ramírez and Millapi could not warn the moment Lohan left.
05:26It does not coincide with Benítez's position, because Benítez did know.
05:30There are testimonies and he himself says it in his reconstruction.
05:36So he has more elements to explain that he did not explain,
05:39but hey, I am not Benítez's defender.
05:41Now he has the official defense, but he is not in the same position as Ramírez and Millapi.
05:46Of course, you would not be either, because from the beginning,
05:49more than five months ago, he told us,
05:51I defend people who I think are innocent.
05:53I could not defend someone who suspected that he did have to do with the disappearance of Lohan,
05:58and this continues to support him, doctor.
06:01Yes, of course, Guillermo.
06:02That is why my voice does not tremble when I say that if I discover
06:08or there are evidence against Ramírez and Millapi that they have not told me,
06:12they have not trusted us to confess,
06:16we would understand that as a lack or loss of confidence,
06:19and we would renounce the defense.
06:21Now, doctor, I know that you have some disagreements with Dr. Gallego,
06:24but there is a coincidence.
06:25Do you think that Audelina knows much more and can contribute much more
06:30to what was the disappearance of Lohan?
06:33Well, the difference may be that I think that the whole family knows more than she says.
06:39Who do you add, doctor?
06:41The whole family.
06:43Sorry.
06:44Maria too?
06:45Taking out Maria and José always, the parents.
06:48Of course, but a simple fact did not occur.
06:52Here the disappearance of a minor occurred in the bosom of a family
06:55where they were gathered practically in the house of the relative, which is the grandmother.
07:00That is, it did not happen neither in Ramírez's house nor in Millapi's house.
07:05It happened in Lohan's grandmother's house.
07:08Doctor, but do you have this stance with firm evidence against them
07:12or is it another situation that occurs in the framework of your ...
07:15It is not against.
07:16Okay.
07:17You have a confrontation with La Querella.
07:19Does La Querella have it with you too?
07:20No.
07:21But do you have something consistent against the father, against José?
07:24In no way.
07:25What I say is proven in the file.
07:28That's why I ask you.
07:29Sure, doctor.
07:30We are asking for clarity.
07:32You are very clear, but clarity in this sense.
07:34When you talk about the family, the family starts with Catalina, chronologically, the father and the mother.
07:41Because we had many transcendences of the brother.
07:43Do you understand, doctor, what I say?
07:44If I finish the note here, it is as if you put in the bag of suspects
07:48to Maria and José who visited us here a week ago with Dr. Gallego.
07:53That's what you're saying, Guillermo.
07:55But for an inference that I make regarding what you say, doctor.
07:58I'm saying something else.
07:59But which member of the family are you referring to, doctor?
08:02What I'm saying is that those who know better how they moved,
08:08what happened before the fact that can be decisive for the occurrence of the fact,
08:14always in the assumption.
08:16Ramírez and Millepi did not know the family or Lohan.
08:19Very few can know what happened before in the family.
08:23Yes.
08:24However, the parents themselves have said that they interpreted a revenge against them.
08:29They never explained what it would consist of.
08:31Let's see, doctor.
08:32So there I am understanding a little more.
08:34What you are saying is that it is clear.
08:37Not that Maria and José planned the kidnapping of their own son.
08:40But, but what you say is that they should, if this were true, say,
08:45this could have happened because one of our children is mixed in the world of AMPA and drugs.
08:51Mariano, particularly.
08:54I don't know why, but they said and declared in court,
08:58both, father and mother,
09:01that if there was something against them, they would have fought with them and not with the creature.
09:07Of course.
09:09But, doctor, is there any...
09:11Yes, but now I understand it a little more,
09:13because if not, it is as if the parents were also part of the kidnapping.
09:16What you are saying is that you can tangentially contribute a line
09:22that links this that you say, the unexplained revenge, the why.
09:27They tell us, Guillermo.
09:28Of course, of course, but now I understand.
09:31But we have had that for a long time,
09:33but no one has advanced in the investigative line with the relationship
09:36of allegedly the narco Cabeza López, who would come from that side.
09:40No one advanced and no one provided forceful evidence
09:43in terms of the relationship of Mariano, Lohan's brother,
09:46with this cartel of drugs in the area.
09:49Why didn't it advance?
09:50The evidence is not there, no one wants to advance in that line.
09:53Who hides that investigative line?
09:58Well, that's why I'm a defense, Germán.
10:01But everything works.
10:02Yes.
10:03Of course.
10:04Eventually, if there are elements that can contribute, as I already did,
10:09and you have in the cause because you have been following it since minute one.
10:13Pérez and Callao are in jail because we asked the cars to be analyzed.
10:16Yes.
10:18Do you remember that?
10:19Yes.
10:20Yes, yes, yes.
10:21With ups and downs.
10:22I brought the last general who came from the complex crime.
10:27I brought the Mexican expert.
10:29Because I now asked for more police as a result of yesterday's statement
10:32that they are going to have to come.
10:34No, it's clear.
10:35The work has to be done in the file and not in the television media.
10:38Sure, sure.
10:39What happens is that, well, much of what transcends,
10:41then we have to talk about it, contrasting it with the file,
10:45to find out a little more, to know more finely, right?
10:49I ask you, doctor, is it true that there are still three or four gaps
10:54about which Lohan was not sought?
10:57No, that's a lie.
10:59What, what, what do we have?
11:01The truth is that ...
11:02Let's see, there are statements that we have.
11:04There is the report of the CIFEU.
11:05Yes.
11:06There is the report of the CIFEU that you must have it.
11:09Yes.
11:10You must have it.
11:11And they are analyzed carefully.
11:13There is not a single point that has not been traced.
11:17But it was miscalculated, they say.
11:20And well, but what do you want me to tell you?
11:22Then you do it.
11:24When they gave you the opportunity, they did not bring the puppy.
11:28Who are you referring to?
11:30To the tracking dog.
11:32They had to notify the one who was going to do it, and he did not notify him.
11:36In other words, not even a cell is capable of doing it.
11:39Okay, but let's see, is it unfeasible to ask to be drained in these lagoons now?
11:43For you, do you have any kind of viable hypothesis?
11:46That Lohan's body is there, or some element?
11:49With the elements used by the gendarmerie,
11:51with the elements used by the gendarmerie,
11:53used by the prefecture,
11:54you can see to the bottom of the lagoon.
11:56And what are they, winning time?
11:58Of course.
11:59What is the objective now?
12:01These are questions you have to ask yourself when you have them in front of the gendarmerie,
12:04and they don't ask you, they follow you.
12:06No, no, no, no, doctor.
12:08We have asked.
12:10Let's see, they tell us, there are still three or four lagoons,
12:12if there are water wells,
12:14and we are not, we do not know the place,
12:16then we have to believe them,
12:17what are they going to tell us?
12:18It's a lie.
12:20Of course, there are 200 sheets today.
12:22There are 200 sheets of the Federal Police report.
12:25We have to read all the reports, we would love to,
12:27but the issue is that when we have some element on top,
12:30and there we ask the question,
12:32we get the recent information,
12:35of this decision of Peritaro.
12:37What do they tell you, doctor, as a journalist?
12:39Look, for now, there is the ...
12:41That's what the Querella said,
12:43that's what the Querella said,
12:44and they are lying,
12:45they are lying,
12:46because there is no decision of the judge.
12:48Of course.
12:49He sent an office,
12:50to the State Prosecutor's Office of the Provinces,
12:52Of course.
12:53To analyze the feasibility,
12:55which is totally different from ordering.
12:57Okay, but there is a party expert,
12:59who tells us,
13:00look, there are still lagoons that were not inspected.
13:02And he never writes anything,
13:03he never writes anything,
13:04there is not a single writing of the party expert in the cause.
13:06If you are told,
13:07one has good faith,
13:08and they tell you, look,
13:09the party expert,
13:10there are still lagoons that were not inspected,
13:12then you say,
13:13I can't believe you,
13:14after more than five months,
13:15how can it be that there are,
13:16water wells and lagoons,
13:18where it was not reviewed,
13:20if the body of Logan could be there.
13:22And you don't say...
13:23If my expert comes to me and tells me that,
13:26the first thing I tell him is,
13:28sign it here and present it in the file.
13:30Okay.
13:31It's not there.
13:32It's not there.
13:33But you are saying then,
13:34that what they say is media.
13:36That they don't take care of what they say.
13:39It's strange, isn't it?
13:41It's very strange.
13:42Because, in short,
13:43I think that all...
13:44Ask him if he presented a writing.
13:46No, it's okay,
13:47but I say,
13:48all the actions should be in favor of the search for Logan.
13:51The actions are by action or omission.
13:53Of course.
13:54Or by imperialism.
13:56I ask you as part of the cause.
14:01Is the doctor here?
14:02Look, Germán,
14:03it's a question that I don't think I have,
14:06enough intellectual capacity to answer,
14:09because I don't think about what the other side thinks,
14:13I actually listen to everything they say.
14:15Yes.
14:16And I read the little they write in the file.
14:18There is a...
14:19Based on that,
14:20I make my conclusions.
14:21That is,
14:22the search answered our request
14:25about the follow-up of Millapi and Ramírez.
14:28And the truth is,
14:29it's a shame to read that writing,
14:31because I sincerely thought
14:33that I was going to find something more concrete and real.
14:37And it's a tremendous divagation,
14:39which also denotes
14:41a clear intention to ignore the evidence in the file.
14:45And has that been assessed by the court?
14:48No, that has been assessed by the one who signed.
14:50The court will decide later.
14:51Okay, perfect.
14:52But I say, what is the...
14:53So far, nothing has been decided.
14:54What is the weight...
14:55The judge said, I'm going to solve it.
14:56What is the weight of the petition regarding the actions?
14:59Because we have been reading many documents
15:01of Dr. Méndez
15:03somehow assessing the position,
15:06the attitudes of the judge,
15:08they have positive consequences for those actions
15:13Do you have any intentions of pirating the judge
15:16and the work of the judge?
15:20No.
15:21I explained to the judge many times
15:23that she is a very capable person.
15:26Yes.
15:27And no matter how much you praise her on television,
15:30in writing,
15:31she is going to do according to how she has been working.
15:33Not in this case, but in all.
15:35You have to know all the work of Dr. Pozo Frenzo,
15:38which is public.
15:39Besides, there is a page where you can read
15:42the excellent sentences,
15:44not only in criminal matters,
15:46because let's remember that the Federal Forum
15:48is multifaceted in the provinces,
15:50it addresses all the issues.
15:53Therefore, it is not only the Logan case,
15:55the only one it has.
15:57And yet, one who is dedicated to law in general
16:00has read very interesting errors
16:03and are even cited by other judges.
16:06Of course.
16:07Let's see, doctor,
16:08do you know in the file, and I ask you,
16:10that there is another lagoon
16:12that is located parallel to the field
16:13of a man named Abundio Oscar,
16:15a man who supposedly declared
16:17to have heard a boy scream
16:19mom on different occasions
16:21when Lohan disappeared,
16:22and that this was not explored enough?
16:27Yes, yes, yes.
16:28The lagoon that is to the west
16:30is a lagoon that covers several fields
16:33within Roger's field,
16:35Chamorro's field,
16:37and behind Abundio Escobar's field.
16:39But curiously, the screams
16:41were heard to the east,
16:43not to the west.
16:44Of course.
16:45And up to that lagoon,
16:46is there access?
16:47Is it one of the ones we will be seeing
16:48now on the screen?
16:49Do they have access?
16:50No, no.
16:51I don't see what they are putting here,
16:52but I'll tell you.
16:53That is, on the way to the south,
16:55to the Algarrobal,
16:57is the large lagoon that is to the west,
16:59behind Chamorro's house,
17:00behind Abundio Escobar's house,
17:02and reaches Roger's field,
17:04which was the field that once had
17:06a part of Grandma Catalina
17:08who had to return.
17:09Of course, because,
17:10taking into account...
17:11I'm talking about memory,
17:12my knowledge of the place
17:14I have it in my retina.
17:15Taking into account the DNA
17:17in the vehicles of the marriage
17:19of Pérez and Caixaba,
17:22could there have been a vehicle
17:24from them,
17:25or a vehicle that participated
17:27in that day,
17:28towards that lagoon
17:29on the same day
17:30of León's disappearance?
17:34On the way to the Algarrobal,
17:36it is very difficult
17:37because the access gate,
17:39all the access gates there
17:40have keys,
17:42and going to the west,
17:44is the way of the school 800,
17:46towards where the chakras
17:48of Pérez and Caixaba are,
17:50but to enter,
17:52until you reach that lagoon,
17:54you have to go through
17:56several plantations,
17:57sand road,
17:59you need a large vehicle
18:01to be able to access,
18:02and it is cut off on a road
18:04where there is another platform,
18:06in the west,
18:07which is an old real road
18:09that reached the Algarrobal
18:11from the west.
18:12And from that lagoon,
18:13where the boot appeared,
18:14is it far?
18:16Yes, we are talking about the west,
18:18and the boot appeared
18:19to the east of the road,
18:21more towards route 12.
18:23In orientation, let's say,
18:24it is like at least
18:2610 kilometers from route 12,
18:28but it is towards route 12.
18:30This other lagoon
18:32and the chakras of the Caixabas
18:34are on the other side.
18:36A needle in a haystack.
18:37Yes, exactly.
18:38Doctor, and with your defendants,
18:39what is going to happen
18:40with Illapi Ramírez?
18:42Well, we have made the request,
18:44the complaint was answered,
18:46and the prosecution has not done it,
18:49they can do it or not,
18:50it is an option.
18:51Now the judge called to resolve,
18:53but I estimate that it will not be resolved soon,
18:57because there are some pending issues
19:00that still need to be resolved.
19:01Otherwise?
19:02Yes, we anticipate that we are going to ask
19:05for alternative measures
19:07regarding detention.
19:09Like which?
19:11And, for example,
19:12domiciliary prison,
19:13because the time that has passed
19:17is a lot,
19:18and they also have younger children.
19:21What reading does it make
19:22that now José Codazzi
19:23appeared defending Cositorto,
19:26he appears mentioned
19:27in this document of the Federal Police,
19:29as the person who somehow coerced
19:32Laudelina to change his statement,
19:35that he has no participation in this cause,
19:37that he is not impeached,
19:39that his statement is practically
19:40ignored by the judge.
19:42What reading do you have?
19:46First, that the participation
19:49that Codazzi may have
19:51is not related to the cause itself,
19:54it does have to do with a parallel action,
19:59and it is being investigated
20:00in Clause 2352,
20:02which is in charge of the prosecutor.
20:04What happens when he is delegated
20:06by Article 196?
20:08The judge does not intervene at all,
20:11except that they ask for some measure
20:14that affects constitutional guarantees.
20:17Freedom, a release,
20:19a kidnapping,
20:20requisites,
20:21are all jurisdictional orders
20:23that the judge does have to order.
20:25But that is in charge of the prosecutor,
20:27not of the judge.
20:29The judge does not get involved
20:31for a prudential matter,
20:33so to speak,
20:34because she cannot intervene
20:36if she does not have instructions in her charge.
20:38She is delegated to the prosecutor,
20:40therefore, what the judge does is fine.
20:42We are stopped in time,
20:44we are like those planes
20:46that you see in the videos,
20:49we have been here since August.
20:53No, what happens, Germán,
20:54I will explain to you,
20:55the federal system,
20:57here in Corrientes,
20:58does not apply the new code,
21:00the adversarial,
21:01which is what should happen.
21:03Why?
21:04Because there, directly,
21:05the judge moves aside
21:06and does not investigate anymore.
21:08The judge does not investigate anymore,
21:10it remains as it is,
21:11the Correntino system,
21:12a guarantee judge,
21:13as it is in Entre Ríos,
21:14as it is in the province of Buenos Aires,
21:16and the parties are the ones
21:18that drive the process,
21:19in the case of the accuser,
21:21the prosecutor and the defense,
21:23but the judge does not intervene,
21:25he only controls the procedure
21:27that the guarantees of both parties are respected.
21:30Of course.
21:31Doctor, finally,
21:32just as Dr. Juan Pablo Gallego
21:33made an exhortation,
21:34here he asked Laudelina directly,
21:37he said,
21:38if you speak,
21:39we will not find out what happened to Loan.
21:41Who would you speak to on camera?
21:43And I would say,
21:44if you speak,
21:45what happened to the little one.
21:47And I would ask Dr. Gallego
21:49to be careful,
21:51not because of the call he made to Laudelina,
21:53who is accused,
21:54but the call he made to Macarena,
21:56who is a witness in the cause,
21:58and he would have to have a little measure
22:00in that call,
22:01the truth is that I was surprised.
22:03So you,
22:04first a piece of advice for Dr. Gallego.
22:06No, no,
22:08I would not do it,
22:09he can do whatever he wants,
22:10he is a great man,
22:11with experience.
22:12But he said,
22:13have measure,
22:14it seems that the measure is imposed,
22:16no matter how great the murderer in the world.
22:19And then who would you talk to?
22:21To Loan's family?
22:22Because you said it a few minutes ago.
22:25Guillermo,
22:26directly,
22:27because then the complaints begin,
22:29contradictions,
22:30and one is already big,
22:31then I would have to defend
22:33Millan Pia Ramirez,
22:34and let it be fixed.
22:35You don't want to be denounced
22:36like Laudelina's defender,
22:39like Dr. Chiribí.
22:40No, I want to avoid problems,
22:42at this point in the championship,
22:43one is not for this.
22:45Hey,
22:46just like the complaint
22:47that they fell into a broken bag,
22:48right?
22:49Yes.
22:50Well,
22:51but of course,
22:52they did not have acid,
22:53that is,
22:54they also framed me
22:55in one of those writings
22:56and it stayed there,
22:57that is,
22:58but well,
22:59lastly,
23:00that they report,
23:01I will defend myself and bye.
23:02Dr. Hanson,
23:03thank you very much again
23:04for this contact.
23:09No,
23:10thank you,
23:11keep up the good work,
23:12keep up the good work,
23:13because the truth is
23:14that it is a topic
23:15that beyond the role
23:16that one plays,
23:17it is important
23:18that this remains
23:19in the press,
23:20because you have to know
23:21at least what happened
23:22with Loa.
23:23We have to know,
23:24without a doubt,
23:25without a doubt.