• 2 months ago
It's that time of year! The Garden Report is BACK with the first postgame show of the 2024-25 Celtics season! Tune in for live, in-depth analysis from John Zannis, Bobby Manning, and Noa Dalzell as the Celtics finish up their first preseason match against the Nuggets in Abu Dhabi.

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Transcript
00:00:00Can you say hard hats folks? Hard hats, munch pails, steel-toed boots.
00:00:08Anything short of a championship this year is a failure.
00:00:10Look at this boomer right here.
00:00:12You've just got so much talent here.
00:00:14Somebody said we need to apologize for Jalen.
00:00:16Can I pull the John? What are we apologizing for? What did we say? What did we do?
00:00:20What's going on everybody? Everyone hear me okay?
00:00:32There is Noah Dalzell covering the WNBA semifinals, if you can tell what that backdrop is.
00:00:44She's hanging out at the Mohegan Sun Casino with the game tonight.
00:00:48And Bobby Manning, here we are. None of us made it to Abu Dhabi, unfortunately.
00:00:52But the Celtics and the Nuggets did.
00:00:54And we have our first preseason game in the books.
00:00:57And we're here to do a Garden Report and talk to you guys all about it.
00:01:00So, happy to have basketball finally back.
00:01:03I mean, it's a preseason game, so there's not a ton that we're going to get too, too serious about.
00:01:08But it's always interesting, you know, what we learn from watching this.
00:01:11And things that we were looking at coming in.
00:01:14I think we're going to be Jason Tatum and his kind of reworked jump shot.
00:01:19Rotations, who's going to play, when and where.
00:01:22You know, who's fighting for those kind of like 9, 10, 11 spot minutes on the team.
00:01:28And, you know, there's a bit of a cluster at the bottom end of the roster and how that's going to look.
00:01:32You've also got a couple rookies who wanted to check them out.
00:01:35Our new free agent, Lonnie Walker.
00:01:37I don't know what's going on with him. We'll talk about Lonnie a little bit, too.
00:01:41Outside of the one thing that's clearly going to jump out, I think, for most people, which is the 61-3s.
00:01:48If anybody had a question how Mizzou Laval was doing in the offseason, it's fine.
00:01:53It's all fine and well. It's back in full force.
00:01:56But I'll start with you, Noah.
00:01:58Anything that kind of jumps off the page as the first thing, you know, that you kind of took away from today's preseason opener?
00:02:07Yeah, I mean, I think the Tatum looked good, the shot looked good.
00:02:10That was a big story, and I'm sure we'll talk more about that.
00:02:13But then the other one was just I spent so much time in Vegas watching summer league games
00:02:18that guys like Jordan Walsh and Drew Peterson, who didn't look great at summer league.
00:02:22And we talked about it so much and we watched so much of it.
00:02:25And, you know, then you have the whole summer to think about it.
00:02:27They both looked a lot better today.
00:02:29So I think some of those main Celtics players or some of the guys that struggled in summer league
00:02:35looked a lot better in a very limited sample size today.
00:02:37But it's just a good reminder that sometimes it's just a different environment and some time
00:02:41and a different headspace can make the same player that looks totally out of control
00:02:44and kind of hopeless look a whole lot better.
00:02:46I thought both of those guys looked a whole lot better today.
00:02:51Yeah, I thought a rusty start for the regulars.
00:02:53Tatum ended up turning around from three.
00:02:56Brown started strong shooting and defending and all that.
00:02:59And then it kind of faded with his shot.
00:03:01I thought Holiday White missed some looks early, too.
00:03:04And that shooting is pretty much what put them behind in that first half.
00:03:07But they got great boosts off the bench.
00:03:10And you wondered how many of those guys who were great contributors last year,
00:03:15Pritchard, Hauser, Cornette, who gets a spot start here, would carry over this year.
00:03:19And I thought they all looked pretty good.
00:03:21Hauser didn't shoot great, but Pritchard probably looked about as ready for the season as anyone here.
00:03:26I thought Brown looked great physically at blocking shots, playing around the basket,
00:03:31stuff like that early.
00:03:34And Pritchard came out and looked like he never stopped playing from last year.
00:03:38And that pretty much became the difference in this game.
00:03:40I mean, that Denver bench, if this was Nuggets postgame, would scare you if you're them.
00:03:45But I liked overall the rotations.
00:03:49I liked how Cornette fit in with the Stars.
00:03:51I don't think that's going to be a thing.
00:03:53But it does signal how much he's probably going to play with the regulars at the start of the year
00:03:57before Zing is out.
00:03:59And some of the deeper guys off the bench,
00:04:03obviously I was excited about Sharman.
00:04:05Cato, a lot of people excited about him.
00:04:07I thought he was okay.
00:04:09And Lonnie Walker, I know there's a whole crowd hyping him up.
00:04:13Those didn't impress you as much as some of the guys coming back from the bench last year.
00:04:19So not a ton of change here.
00:04:21The biggest surprise of the game to me was Jordan Walsh's role,
00:04:24which was pretty consistent early, often.
00:04:27He's in this game playing alongside some of the regular contributors off the bench.
00:04:31And looking pretty poised out there,
00:04:33not with the shot, but just some of the other stuff
00:04:35you thought he'd bring to the table
00:04:37that wasn't really there early in summer league.
00:04:39He looked like the Jordan Walsh from a year ago.
00:04:41So that was pretty exciting
00:04:43in terms of the guys who weren't part of the team last year.
00:04:45But other than that,
00:04:47you didn't really see much new that blew you away.
00:04:49Real quick, welcoming back everybody here
00:04:51who is watching us
00:04:53on our various platforms and channels.
00:04:55And thank you, Cobra.
00:04:57We'll give a shout out right out of the gate
00:05:00These are appreciated.
00:05:02They trickle back down to the hosts.
00:05:04So every little bit does help.
00:05:06And we are thankful for that.
00:05:08But also just for you guys coming back
00:05:10and hanging out with us.
00:05:12It's Friday. It's 245.
00:05:14It's a preseason game.
00:05:16There's no reason for you to be here,
00:05:18yet you're here.
00:05:20So yes, thank you.
00:05:22Thank you for joining and hanging out with us.
00:05:24So let's go in order of things.
00:05:26Real quick on the Jordan Walsh,
00:05:28I'd love to see a sliding door situation
00:05:30if that three that he knocked down
00:05:32that he didn't want to shoot and hesitated
00:05:34and then realized,
00:05:36I have to shoot this because nobody's closing out
00:05:38and I'm wide open and everyone's going to laugh at me
00:05:40if I don't.
00:05:42Those things miss 95% of the time.
00:05:44And he made that one.
00:05:46And then from there I feel like he got a great deal
00:05:48more confidence off of that.
00:05:50Because I think he was only 1 of 4 to start the game
00:05:52and it was that shot which was not an in-rhythm shot.
00:05:54And then all of a sudden he looked a little bit looser.
00:05:57So that kind of stuff makes a difference.
00:05:59We'll get into Walsh,
00:06:01not just his performance,
00:06:03but overall.
00:06:05And again, Noah, you mentioned summer league expectations.
00:06:07You entered this year thinking
00:06:09Walsh is making the team out right.
00:06:11He's not on a main shuttle
00:06:13and he might be asked to do stuff.
00:06:15And it's kind of this year
00:06:17or probably not going to happen for him
00:06:19in terms of starting to crack
00:06:21the low end of the rotation
00:06:23and earn himself some consistent minutes.
00:06:26And after Vegas, I think he was left dead and gone.
00:06:28So kind of
00:06:30how they view him,
00:06:32how they view J.D. Davison,
00:06:34who again, he's in with the third string.
00:06:36The third bench unit.
00:06:38Stay way ready crew.
00:06:40Deep, deep, deep bench.
00:06:42And he's still looking and doing impressive things
00:06:44coming off of a fairly impressive
00:06:46Vegas league stint.
00:06:48So, you know, Scal, I think at one point
00:06:50said that this might be the most talent
00:06:52that the Celtics main roster
00:06:54potentially beat some NBA teams.
00:06:56I'm not ready for that level of hyperbole
00:06:58this early in the Celtics season.
00:07:00But there's definitely some choices
00:07:02to be made in terms of who's going to get minutes
00:07:04if anyone is kind of
00:07:06in that deep, deep bench situation.
00:07:08As we know, the top eight or nine
00:07:10are very, very set on this team
00:07:12even more so when Porzingis comes back.
00:07:14But in order of importance
00:07:16to the team, whether or not
00:07:18I don't know where your panic level
00:07:20was, Noah, on the Jason Tatum
00:07:23shot stuff, I don't think panic is the right term
00:07:25to describe it. But I was definitely
00:07:27very curious to see
00:07:29not just how it would look
00:07:31because I can't tell, and if any of you want to
00:07:33put on your shot doctor outfits
00:07:35and tell me whether you're seeing
00:07:37discernible differences between what we
00:07:39saw on the broadcast today and what you've seen
00:07:41in practice from what he was doing before
00:07:43or, you know, it's kind of
00:07:45more of the same. It was more approach.
00:07:47You know, not only was he missing over the summer
00:07:49he was choosing not
00:07:51to take them. He was
00:07:53reluctant to pull it. He was resetting.
00:07:55He was looking for it.
00:07:57He made three
00:07:59pointers, which is great tonight
00:08:01for the people who were concerned.
00:08:03But the thing I like the best is
00:08:05he was just going for it. He was
00:08:07just looking for it. Let me just kind of
00:08:09do my thing, do the pull-up, do the spot-up
00:08:11which is what he's supposed to do.
00:08:13He shouldn't be worrying
00:08:15about mechanics
00:08:17when he's playing the game.
00:08:19Yeah, I would say
00:08:21myself, I rank pretty low on the concern
00:08:23level for Tatum's shot. I think
00:08:25it's more of an acceptance that he's not
00:08:27some sharpshooter.
00:08:29That's not his role. That's not his thing.
00:08:31He can shoot at times.
00:08:33And I think I look more just a big sample
00:08:35size of what has he been able to do over the last
00:08:37few years. And certainly
00:08:39when someone's in a shooting slump for six months
00:08:41you have to start thinking about that a little bit more
00:08:43seriously. But the Olympics
00:08:45is just not going to be the one. We talked
00:08:47about this on the show, but I think just when
00:08:49you're getting one or two shots per game, it's not
00:08:51enough to really see anything. And to me, it's just
00:08:53the confidence. It's just the ability
00:08:55to, you know,
00:08:57whether he's hesitating, like you said,
00:08:59you can kind of see it on his face, honestly. I feel like in the Olympics
00:09:01quite often you can just see
00:09:03he didn't really want those shots.
00:09:05But he looked good today. As far as the mechanics,
00:09:07I will never weigh in on that stuff because I feel
00:09:09like when shots go in, suddenly all the mechanics look
00:09:11good to me. And when he's
00:09:13short or whatever, suddenly you can start to see the
00:09:15hinges or all the things that are going wrong
00:09:17with his shot.
00:09:21Yeah, I
00:09:25liked it. I thought
00:09:27through the practices, through the camp,
00:09:29it was looking sharp, a little more condensed
00:09:31and not huge differences, but just
00:09:33a little quicker. And getting it off quicker
00:09:35I think is the key for anybody to be able
00:09:37to shoot more effectively
00:09:39in this league, especially with the pressure he's
00:09:41facing there. And he hit some tough ones.
00:09:43I thought Brown got him a good opportunity
00:09:45off one of the long offensive rebounds.
00:09:47And that was the big thing for them, three-point
00:09:49shooting in this game. They got so many offensive
00:09:51rebounds, especially early. And those are
00:09:53always going to set you up for good opportunities outside.
00:09:55So it's good to see him
00:09:57start off on this footing. I think he split the
00:09:59first two pair.
00:10:01Finishes three of seven, aggressive from out there,
00:10:03hunting it. That's what you want to see from him.
00:10:05And it says a lot about his role still
00:10:07at this point, right? They want him shooting a bunch.
00:10:09They want him being the guy who draws pressure
00:10:11out there on the three-point line.
00:10:13Everything funnels from there. In fact,
00:10:15much of the game plan for Boston
00:10:17in this game looked like an exaggerated
00:10:19version of last year's.
00:10:21The three-point volume,
00:10:23offensive rebounding. They had 17 offensive
00:10:25rebounds in this game.
00:10:27Big reason they won.
00:10:29Pretty much focused on the three-point
00:10:31line. And I think that makes sense
00:10:33for him this preseason, right? Get up as much
00:10:35as possible, find a rhythm up,
00:10:37and put everything behind you.
00:10:39Look, that's my thing. I didn't
00:10:41know whether he'd be
00:10:43embarrassed.
00:10:45Meaning, what if it doesn't fall?
00:10:47Are people going to say stuff?
00:10:49That's not quite the right term.
00:10:51It's a preseason game,
00:10:53but there's no question that there's
00:10:55a lot of smoke surrounding Tatum
00:10:57coming off this offseason with
00:10:59all of the stuff with
00:11:01getting benched in the Olympics and the shot
00:11:03not necessarily falling.
00:11:05And then him consistently
00:11:07passing the, you know,
00:11:09I'm one of the best players in the league, even if you guys
00:11:11don't think so sort of thing. So he kind
00:11:13of entered it with this weird defensive
00:11:15vibe about himself as opposed
00:11:17to someone who should be king of the world
00:11:19right now coming off an NBA title.
00:11:21You know, the best player on the best
00:11:23team and all of that. So I was kind of
00:11:25curious. Is he going to get in his own head
00:11:27if the first... And the first one was a back
00:11:29rim, you know? And then he misses the second one, too.
00:11:31And I was like, oh, no.
00:11:33Is he going to start thinking? And I'm so glad
00:11:35he didn't because, you know,
00:11:37he did keep shooting it and they did
00:11:39fall. The third one fell and
00:11:41then it just kind of looked normal from there because
00:11:43Noah, as you said,
00:11:45maybe the notion of
00:11:47Jason Tatum, you know, years one and two
00:11:49or kind of bubble year Tatum
00:11:51where he was a little bit more of a deadly
00:11:53shooter, maybe that's gone. Do you
00:11:55think it's gone gone? Or
00:11:57like, are we just reconciled
00:11:59to the fact that it doesn't necessarily
00:12:01have to be that good for him to be a great
00:12:03shooter? You know, because it's two different things.
00:12:05If it comes back and he shoots
00:12:07at volume
00:12:09at an elite clip, you know,
00:12:11approaching 40% and he's hitting
00:12:13those step backs, he's all of a sudden
00:12:15the deadliest scorer in the league, you know?
00:12:17But if it doesn't, he has to work
00:12:19a little bit harder for his buckets.
00:12:21Yeah, that's where I land on it.
00:12:23And is my audio better? I realize
00:12:25I think I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a little
00:12:27low before. Okay, cool.
00:12:29So I think where I land
00:12:31is that you
00:12:33look at the broad years of his career,
00:12:35he has not been a consistent three-point
00:12:37shooter, you know, compared to some
00:12:39other shooters that we know in the league that
00:12:41that's kind of what their thing is. I think if he
00:12:43was going to try to be an MVP candidate or win
00:12:45MVP next year, he needs to be a really
00:12:47good three-point shooter. So if that's your
00:12:49prerogative and that's the discussion that we're having,
00:12:51and I know people like to have that conversation,
00:12:53then yes, he needs to be an elite
00:12:55shooter. Outside of that conversation,
00:12:57I don't think this, I don't think it really
00:12:59matters because we saw how effective he was
00:13:01in the playoffs without being able to shoot
00:13:03and I think that that was a little bit below
00:13:05what we can expect of him, 28%.
00:13:07But I think there's a little bit of
00:13:09an obsession with him and his three-point
00:13:11shot that ends up kind of taking a lot of the air
00:13:13out of the other things that he does really well, and
00:13:15the only time it would actually matter in my eyes
00:13:17is if we're talking about an MVP
00:13:19campaign, because there are guards
00:13:21that can shoot like that, there's guards like
00:13:23Pjokic that he's never going to be able to rival as efficiently
00:13:25offensively, and so
00:13:27that's the only time that I think that his three-point shot
00:13:29fixation really should come into play
00:13:31unless things were to go
00:13:33south beyond what we've seen of late, and again
00:13:35I'm cracking up with the graphic here,
00:13:37but it's a little unfair because he did
00:13:39I'm sorry, I couldn't help it!
00:13:41Oh, it was you? I thought
00:13:43it was Ahmet or someone. No, I couldn't
00:13:45help it, I couldn't help it, I'm sorry.
00:13:47No, I just, I had to say something.
00:13:49But...
00:13:51I couldn't help it,
00:13:53I'm sorry, I know it's a little bit of trolling.
00:13:55It's true, right?
00:13:57It is, it is. It's mean, I'm just being funny.
00:13:59It's Friday 3 o'clock.
00:14:01When's the last Derek White shot that was made?
00:14:03Also June. I know, I know!
00:14:05I'm just kidding.
00:14:07I'll ask you this, because Bobby's mentioned it before
00:14:09too. Bobby and I
00:14:11have talked about this, and even the Mavericks
00:14:13talked about it. I thought the biggest mistake that they made
00:14:15was being so insistent
00:14:17on doubling Tatum and getting the ball out of his hands
00:14:19and leaving what was a really
00:14:21strong shooting lineup, you know, to
00:14:23do different things, where you
00:14:25do wonder if Tatum isn't that
00:14:27threat as much anymore.
00:14:29You're packing the paint against him
00:14:31and playing him straight up one-on-one without
00:14:33sending bodies his way when
00:14:35he starts at the point of attack, when he starts making
00:14:37his way to the hoop, if you're not respecting
00:14:39the shot. It reduces his offensive
00:14:41arsenal, but there'll be a trickle-down effect there
00:14:43too, so him hitting those
00:14:45shots and people respecting his ability
00:14:47to, I think is important to keep
00:14:49the defense open, because he can't just be a
00:14:51bury-your-head guy and head to the basket.
00:14:53That's a part of his game,
00:14:55but it can't be all of his game.
00:14:57Being able to score at multiple levels is important,
00:14:59and we've talked about that middie kind of
00:15:01leaving him a little bit too, so I do
00:15:03want to see Tatum hit his pull-ups.
00:15:05I do want to see him, you know, kind of
00:15:07lean into that mid-range when he needs it,
00:15:09because your best shot-makers are supposed
00:15:11to do that. The clock is
00:15:13low. There's no more room to move the ball.
00:15:15The ball's in his hands. He's got to make something happen.
00:15:17You want to make sure that he can do that,
00:15:19and that's kind of his thing, is you're a difficult
00:15:21shot-taker, you have to be a difficult shot-maker,
00:15:23so again, good to see him kind of
00:15:25knocking these down. Bobby, anything more to add on this
00:15:27convo before we move on?
00:15:29Because he does need to take those
00:15:31difficult shots, because that's who he is on this team.
00:15:33It's going to happen.
00:15:35He's a 37-ish
00:15:37guy for his life, right?
00:15:39We know him. He's
00:15:41made his career to this point by being
00:15:43a little above average from 3.
00:15:45He's never been a sharp shooter out there,
00:15:47never been a 40% guy
00:15:49on high volume,
00:15:51so you have to figure
00:15:53it's going to be 35, 36, 37.
00:15:55The concern coming out of the Olympics,
00:15:57coming out of the playoffs, is that something
00:15:59went wrong, and he dipped down to
00:16:01being a guy who's around 30%.
00:16:03That's where it'd be a problem. You can't have
00:16:05a guy who's taking as many for this team
00:16:07and is essential for this team
00:16:09having that kind of slump for the year.
00:16:11You'd be readjusting everything
00:16:13you want to do at that point.
00:16:15The discouraging thing here is that
00:16:17this isn't broken. He went back and made
00:16:19some tweaks. Maybe it's not
00:16:21elite. Maybe it's not where
00:16:23you'd love it to be for MVP
00:16:25purposes, as Noah said there.
00:16:27You'd have to get pretty hot from that standpoint
00:16:29to be in that conversation again.
00:16:31If you're somewhere in the middle,
00:16:33that's where you can live with it.
00:16:35They're going to live with the variance a little bit,
00:16:37try to negate that with offensive
00:16:39rebounding, some other things for nights where they
00:16:41miss. It's just astonishing
00:16:43how they were able to take it to another level
00:16:45in this game. You think 40-50,
00:16:47that's the max amount of
00:16:49threes you can get up. They're pushing it
00:16:51another level here. Is this what they're going to do in the regular
00:16:53season? That'll be interesting
00:16:55to see. I don't think anyone's
00:16:57trying to get themselves hurt here either.
00:16:59Going kamikaze style towards
00:17:01the rim. There was a half speed
00:17:03to the start. They were going through the
00:17:05motions for sure here, which is
00:17:07let's just whip it around. I actually
00:17:09thought there was pretty good ball movement. It wasn't just
00:17:11dribble. It wasn't dribble
00:17:13up and chuck it. They were actually moving the ball
00:17:15pretty well inside, outside, running
00:17:17some cool stuff. They had Cornette coming out
00:17:19high as a screener
00:17:21and still playing.
00:17:23Not quite like playing like you would with
00:17:25Cornette, but they were
00:17:27moving him around and bringing him away from the
00:17:29paint there and
00:17:31using him as a ball screener
00:17:33sometimes.
00:17:35There was definitely an emphasis
00:17:37on let's create as many of these
00:17:39as we can get. What do you think of Cornette starting
00:17:41right away? Eleven rebounds,
00:17:43three assists?
00:17:45No, I'm going to let you have the Cornette conversation.
00:17:47You can have the Cornette conversation with
00:17:49Bobby. Here we go. It's year
00:17:51five of Luke Cornette. He was fine!
00:17:53I feel the same about Luke
00:17:55as I've always felt about Luke. Go
00:17:57ahead, Noah. He's reached another level.
00:17:59I think we're going to see more Luke.
00:18:01I'm happy for you, Bobby. I think we are going to see more Luke in the fall.
00:18:03I'm happy for you, Bobby.
00:18:05I really am because I think
00:18:07today, Al
00:18:09not playing at all is expected.
00:18:11It's not shocking, but it's also indicative
00:18:13of I think everything we've come to see with Al
00:18:15in the rest days is only going to be intensified.
00:18:17He's one year older and he's off of
00:18:19a finals run.
00:18:21I think we're going to see a lot of Luke in the fall.
00:18:23He's your starting center on a lot of nights.
00:18:25My understanding
00:18:27of Xavier Tillman is that
00:18:29he's not a guy that they're going to pile
00:18:31minutes on, even if he's playing
00:18:33well. I think with the knee stuff, he's still somebody
00:18:35that they're going to monitor.
00:18:39I think we're going to see both of those guys quite a bit.
00:18:41I didn't even have Tillman on my
00:18:43bingo card for
00:18:45today to talk about in this show because
00:18:47that's kind of a good and a bad
00:18:49thing. There wasn't anything there
00:18:51to discuss, but I kind of was
00:18:53hoping to see a different
00:18:55looking Tillman, one that
00:18:57looked completely
00:18:59more athletic than the version
00:19:01that we had last year that I chalked up to
00:19:03knee issues.
00:19:05I think we do have to point
00:19:07out he did have a procedure that we weren't aware
00:19:09of until very recently
00:19:11and so he could still be working his way
00:19:13back, but I was kind of hoping to see a leaner,
00:19:15meaner, a little bit more
00:19:17– my earbud fell out –
00:19:19a little bit more kind of
00:19:21spry Tillman. I didn't see
00:19:23much of it tonight, but
00:19:25he just didn't do anything
00:19:27that was grabby in any way.
00:19:29I don't think Tillman had the kind of
00:19:31season where he was working on
00:19:33his game all summer. I think
00:19:35he dealt with it. He talked about this at practice the
00:19:37other day, but he dealt with the death of his father in the
00:19:39spring, had a lot of mental
00:19:41peace recovering to go through,
00:19:43and then had the surgery. I think for him
00:19:45he's not one of those guys that spent
00:19:47all summer refining his game. I think
00:19:49he's going to ease back into things.
00:19:51It is a good sign that he had the surgery on July
00:19:5330th and that he's already back out there, so it wasn't
00:19:55anything that substantive, but
00:19:57the shot looked good. He went two for three, a small
00:19:59example, but that's a big thing that I know that
00:20:01they're really hopeful about.
00:20:03They really want to see that.
00:20:05On Joe's team, if you can't at least
00:20:07threaten to take that three, there's really not a place
00:20:09for you, and if he's not going to bring you other things
00:20:11that a traditional big does, down low
00:20:13where if Kayden – and we'll get to Kayden
00:20:15a little bit because he had kind of an adventurous
00:20:17day as well. I'll
00:20:19be hearing that scream in
00:20:21my dreams, by the way.
00:20:23I rewound and listened to that
00:20:25a hundred times.
00:20:27I don't know if that was him. It might have been a fan
00:20:29or something. I wonder.
00:20:31That was unbelievable. I don't know. It was unreal.
00:20:33Drew laughed out loud on the broadcast
00:20:35and he's floor level,
00:20:37so I'm guessing he – No, Drew's in Boston.
00:20:39Oh, Drew's in Boston. Okay, he's not
00:20:41out there. Forsberg's out there. He's the only
00:20:43one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, okay.
00:20:45So,
00:20:47I don't know, but anyway, we'll get to him
00:20:49in a little bit, but you're right. He has to be able –
00:20:51Louise! What's going on?
00:20:53Sorry. Louise, are you mad yet?
00:20:55We haven't talked about JB. Should we stick
00:20:57something in here just to commemorate
00:20:59Louise's return? They're going to ask him and he's going to be like,
00:21:01huh? Huh?
00:21:03I don't think it was him.
00:21:05Really? I don't know. I think it was.
00:21:07I have no idea. I'll have to go back and watch
00:21:09the tape, too. That'll be the first thing I look at when
00:21:11I go back and watch the game. I
00:21:13rewatched it a ton and I feel like it was him,
00:21:15but yeah. For Tillman,
00:21:17my big question still,
00:21:19where's he fitting in the offense?
00:21:21And it's great that he's hitting threes
00:21:23in this game. I don't know
00:21:25if that is sustainable
00:21:27and the tough part for him,
00:21:29the part that
00:21:31Joe's always wary of there is that the
00:21:33Nuggets ignored him. I mean, that play where he hit the
00:21:35corner three, they were all standing in the paint
00:21:37just daring him to fire
00:21:39away and it's great if he can make them
00:21:41pay in that spot. That changes the shape of the
00:21:43floor a little bit. I thought he took some tough
00:21:45shots, too, on the run, on the move that
00:21:47you probably don't want him taking,
00:21:49but Noah's right. He didn't have an
00:21:51offseason to work on
00:21:53skills or any layers
00:21:55of his game or even, I'm sure, conditioning.
00:21:57I'm sure he's still in a pretty early stage
00:21:59in terms of getting back into game
00:22:01flow and rhythm, so that probably accounts
00:22:03for a lot of how he looked in this one.
00:22:05I want to say he got on the court the week
00:22:07before camp started,
00:22:09so he's pretty
00:22:11early on right now and that knee's
00:22:13been a problem with him for a long time
00:22:15there. It's definitely
00:22:17a luxury to have him because the defense
00:22:19is so effective. He's so
00:22:21versatile out there on that end. He's
00:22:23a great guy to put in there when Horford's
00:22:25out. In fact, I think you could see him
00:22:27starting if Horford misses a game
00:22:29just to have that interchangeability in certain
00:22:31matchups, but you still
00:22:33wonder, where's his ideal
00:22:35fit in the offense? I don't
00:22:37think it's firing up threes.
00:22:39I don't know if he's that kind of guy,
00:22:41but if he becomes that,
00:22:43that makes him all the more playable out there.
00:22:45Well, Luke's too much of a coward to shoot
00:22:47threes like he did early in his career, so someone
00:22:49has to, Bobby.
00:22:51That might be the only thing he can contribute
00:22:53on that end of the floor. I think there was some hope early
00:22:55on he could be a dump-off guy down
00:22:57there and finish some stuff around the rim. He was talking when
00:22:59he got here about posting up more. We haven't
00:23:01really seen that, but they also didn't allow him
00:23:03to play the five much last year, which I think is
00:23:05probably the best position for him.
00:23:07We'll see where his role ends up
00:23:09falling. I think on the average night, it's going to be Horford
00:23:11starting and Cornett filling most
00:23:13of the second unit minutes, but they like to play bigger
00:23:15too. Honestly, with what we saw
00:23:17from the wings today, Springer,
00:23:19Walsh, who was
00:23:21fine but didn't hit shots,
00:23:23I don't think there's a lot of opportunity to
00:23:25go small with what they have
00:23:27right now. And Shireman, I was
00:23:29so bummed with how that went. I was waiting for
00:23:31fireworks in his debut and we didn't get them.
00:23:33I do
00:23:35want to get to him too. Does he look like a completely
00:23:37different human than the person they drafted?
00:23:39If you put them side by
00:23:41side, I would never think that the guy right
00:23:43here is Shireman. Didn't they actually do it?
00:23:45Someone put the side by side of him compared to
00:23:47Creighton. Yeah, someone did it. Totally different
00:23:49person. I'd never... He spent the summer
00:23:51in Boston, you know?
00:23:53You can see it on his face.
00:23:55My goodness gracious. He's so
00:23:57different.
00:23:59Get him one of these.
00:24:01I'll say of all the stuff, this is
00:24:03the most interesting stuff. I'm not a
00:24:05bury-the-lead guy, but honestly, what are you
00:24:07going to learn about a preseason game from
00:24:09Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown,
00:24:11Derek White, those guys? Nothing.
00:24:13They're the same guys over and over. It's really
00:24:15these deeper-on-the-bench guys, how
00:24:17they look. Does anybody look different? Is anybody
00:24:19going to earn a bigger role than they did last
00:24:21year? I do think
00:24:23of the interesting things to talk about,
00:24:25Pritchard, and again,
00:24:27he becomes more and more interesting.
00:24:29The myth of Peyton Pritchard continues
00:24:31to grow, just in terms of every time
00:24:33you see him, he's doing something that's super
00:24:35impressive, particularly
00:24:37against bench units or second
00:24:39minute sort of competition or anything that's
00:24:41kind of a reduced level there.
00:24:43Jordan Walsh, his role here,
00:24:45the Lonnie Walker stuff, Shireman, there's
00:24:47definitely intriguing players here. We're
00:24:49going to talk about that as we roll
00:24:51on, but I do want to tell you,
00:24:53and I've got to figure out where to find it,
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00:26:09Also, I want to tell you about game time.
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00:26:13Bobby. I was pushing people to get
00:26:15their Patriots tickets early because I thought this was
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00:26:19I don't know when that's coming. Maybe
00:26:21it's the next week. Roll the dice.
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00:26:27But again, authorized ticket marketplace.
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00:26:33or as we said, the Celtics are starting up.
00:26:35You want to go check out the Sun? Is that a
00:26:37sellout down there, Noah?
00:26:39I don't know that it's sold out. I know the tickets are cheap.
00:26:41My brother was thinking about coming down and it's like
00:26:43$25. Okay.
00:26:45But Celtics tickets,
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00:27:31Let's get back to it and the game.
00:27:33Let's switch to this view.
00:27:35Some of the stuff we wanted to talk about.
00:27:37Noah, when I had asked you before
00:27:39the show, would you like the best?
00:27:41Number one, you wanted to talk about
00:27:43Pritchard. Is that correct? That was your guy
00:27:45or that was because everything else good was
00:27:47taken? No, I think
00:27:49he's the guy that stood out the most
00:27:51today. And it's not a surprise and it doesn't change
00:27:53my understanding of what he's capable of
00:27:55because we've seen him do this kind of thing
00:27:57before in preseason and when he's given the opportunity
00:27:59to do so. But we were talking
00:28:01about Zabertel and maybe not having a summer
00:28:03that was centered around improving his game.
00:28:05Guarantee that if we had to look at who took the most
00:28:07shots this offseason, I bet Pritchard would be up there.
00:28:09But he looked great. And I think that again,
00:28:11it just reminds people that
00:28:13when he has the touches and when he has the
00:28:15opportunities, he has generally over the last
00:28:17year or so shown that he's capable
00:28:19of playing a bigger role. And I think that
00:28:21the hope and the expectation for him this
00:28:23year is to have a little bit
00:28:25of a larger usage rate, a little bit of a larger
00:28:27role coming off the bench,
00:28:29especially because you're downputting is
00:28:31Al's not doing much. The bigs are all low usage big.
00:28:33So I think Pritchard is going to be one of the guys
00:28:35that maybe creates his own shot a little bit more.
00:28:37And he looked very much ready
00:28:39to go and in shape and
00:28:41full steam this year, today.
00:28:45Yeah, and he obviously spent quite a bit
00:28:47of time in the facility. And Al said
00:28:49when we talked to him at his camp there that he was
00:28:51the guy standing out the most, setting the tone.
00:28:53He's a veteran now. Funny to
00:28:55think when the GARN report started, he was
00:28:57a rookie, this version
00:28:59of the GARN report. So he's one
00:29:01of the elder guys on the team at this point.
00:29:03And I love some of the
00:29:05energy defensively into the second units.
00:29:07We've given him a lot of credit for his growth on that
00:29:09part of his game. I know he
00:29:11wanted to work on his pull of three-point shooting. That
00:29:13obviously showed in this game.
00:29:15And he's
00:29:17becoming one of the more strong
00:29:19bench players around the league
00:29:21right now in terms of, as Jalen talked about,
00:29:23put him in there against
00:29:25a weaker opponent or
00:29:27a weaker lineup,
00:29:29or in any spot where he can
00:29:31have some more opportunity to play with the ball
00:29:33in his hands. And he always seems to take advantage
00:29:35of it. His consistency in
00:29:37that role and how high of a ceiling
00:29:39he has in that role
00:29:41just continues to astound me. But we remember
00:29:43from his summer league days, we remember
00:29:45from his pro-ams where he's scoring
00:29:47100 points.
00:29:49This is just who he is.
00:29:51And it's amazing still.
00:29:53That's the question. To me, there's one question,
00:29:55not just with Pritchard, but with anybody
00:29:57that people fall in love with on the Celtics bench
00:29:59and we have the deepest bench,
00:30:01maybe.
00:30:03Like I said,
00:30:05I contested that a little bit last year just because
00:30:07when fully healthy,
00:30:09anybody on the bench was playing with
00:30:11three all-star caliber players.
00:30:13And in most cases, you don't have that.
00:30:15And sometimes you would have Tatum
00:30:17plus a guard and three bench players.
00:30:19But that was about it.
00:30:21It's never just the
00:30:23bench. This isn't youth league where it's five
00:30:25in, five out.
00:30:27There's always
00:30:29just so many good other players
00:30:31on there. It's hard to fully gauge how good
00:30:33they are. They had that weird number
00:30:35last year for a long time. I don't know what it
00:30:37ended up with. But for the longest time
00:30:39into the year, Noah, it was
00:30:41lowest bench scoring output
00:30:43but highest bench differential.
00:30:45You know?
00:30:47So that's kind of it.
00:30:49How good are they? Or are they
00:30:51buoyed by
00:30:53playing in the presence of so many
00:30:55all-NBA,
00:30:57Olympic-level, star, star,
00:30:59star players, which the Celtics have
00:31:01at the top of their roster. But Pritchard
00:31:03is that one guy who you think,
00:31:05and Jalen Brown had those interesting comments
00:31:07in the offseason where he
00:31:09you know
00:31:11Detroit Pistons
00:31:13got caught in the crossfire a little bit there.
00:31:15But like, hey, we don't have
00:31:17to go out there and play our guys
00:31:1930, 40 minutes. I'm paraphrasing here.
00:31:21You know, every once in a while, we don't always have to
00:31:23kind of do the things that we do. It doesn't have to be
00:31:25me or Jason or whatever. He's like, we
00:31:27can run a game through Peyton Pritchard and let him
00:31:29go off for 30 against a team like Detroit.
00:31:31Like, I don't know if it's
00:31:33just, yeah, you know, he's my teammate, so I believe
00:31:35in him. But like, I do wonder, like,
00:31:37is there a world in which you could
00:31:39do things like that where you
00:31:41view it less as
00:31:43spot starting or going in there
00:31:45and, you know, he had a good bench stint
00:31:47and feature people a little bit more prominently
00:31:49in what they do and feel okay
00:31:51to rest somebody and say,
00:31:53all right, Peyton or Sam, you're
00:31:55in the starting lineup, and I don't want you to just
00:31:57kind of be there. I want you to take
00:31:5917 to 20 shots.
00:32:0112 to 15 shots
00:32:03tonight. That's who you are. You're
00:32:05a scorer on this team tonight, like
00:32:07a primary scorer, not just
00:32:09a bench unit scorer. When you're out
00:32:11there, your job is to do this. And how would it
00:32:13look if they did that? Like,
00:32:15could Sam Houser be starting on
00:32:17a lesser team? Could Peyton Pritchard
00:32:19be starting on a lesser team and putting up
00:32:2115, 16, 17 points a game?
00:32:25Yeah, I think for me, the
00:32:27bench is less about, like, there are so many
00:32:29talented players that are more talented
00:32:31than other teams' bench, but there's a
00:32:33system in place that is
00:32:35everybody's super bought into, and there's
00:32:37chemistry and experience of those guys playing
00:32:39together. Like, we don't talk enough about how well
00:32:41Sam Houser and Peyton Pritchard play together.
00:32:43Like, they know exactly where the other guy's going to be.
00:32:45There's Luke Hornet comes in, and he
00:32:47really is, like, the glue for that unit. And so
00:32:49I think when I look at the bench, it's
00:32:51again, like, I do get excited
00:32:53about Peyton Pritchard, and I do think that he could have a larger
00:32:55role on another team, but
00:32:57the fact is that, you know, Sam, Luke,
00:32:59and Peyton...
00:33:01Noah
00:33:03Freeze on us?
00:33:05Yeah.
00:33:07Bobby, is she frozen to you?
00:33:09Alright, we'll drop Noah,
00:33:11we'll bring her back in.
00:33:13She is, again, just for those wondering, where
00:33:15is Noah and what's that background? She's
00:33:17covering for
00:33:19SB,
00:33:21for SB Nation. She's covering the
00:33:23Connecticut
00:33:25Sun playoff matchup tonight
00:33:27at Mohegan Sun Arena.
00:33:29So she jumped out of the press room
00:33:31into the heart of the casino, and she's
00:33:33out there doing the
00:33:35Lord's work and doing a postgame show with us, so happy
00:33:37to have her on board. But yeah, Bobby, what do you think here?
00:33:39Like, is he real, or is
00:33:41he, like... What is Peyton Pritchard?
00:33:43Because again, is he
00:33:4591 points in a pro-am
00:33:47and, like, you know, can light up
00:33:49the summer league, you know, at will,
00:33:51where he looks like the best player out there, like
00:33:53he's playing at Rucker or something like that, and just
00:33:55launching 40-foot threes and making
00:33:57it look easy and schooling people,
00:33:59or is he someone who's actually, at
00:34:01this point in his life, like, if he left
00:34:03Boston, he's in contention for
00:34:05starter minutes somewhere else and would be a legit
00:34:07scorer and contributor on a
00:34:09different team. Like, what do you actually have
00:34:11in Peyton Pritchard? Is this... Is there a
00:34:13version of him that could succeed outside
00:34:15of the Celtics ecosystem?
00:34:17Yeah, for sure,
00:34:19and I think it would've been interesting. I mean, not just succeed,
00:34:21of course he could succeed. Thrive.
00:34:23Like, even more than he's doing here.
00:34:25Do the Celtics have a starter
00:34:27who's relegated to 18 minutes a game
00:34:29because they're so good?
00:34:31Maybe. In their system,
00:34:33the way they want to play, he's
00:34:35probably still a little too huntable,
00:34:37given the size,
00:34:39the Jimmy Butler's of the world. I know he held up
00:34:41well against Luka, but maybe a
00:34:43healthier, stronger version
00:34:45of Luka in that spot could've taken
00:34:47more advantage of him. But teams are gonna go at him,
00:34:49and we've weighed in the past whether
00:34:51that's an advantage or a disadvantage for Boston.
00:34:53I know in some cases you might
00:34:55feel like that takes the other team out of their offense.
00:34:57But in terms of his
00:34:59skill set on offense, what makes
00:35:01him so great here is how
00:35:03complimentary he is. The catch and
00:35:05shoots, the secondary ball
00:35:07handling. He can play alongside the starters
00:35:09and take advantage of the space he has with them.
00:35:11Is this a guy who could be like a sixth man
00:35:13of the year sort of candidate somewhere else?
00:35:15Also, can he start pressing here where
00:35:17his contributions are not small
00:35:19here, where he's earning...
00:35:21Could he play his way
00:35:23into 22-24 minutes
00:35:25a night here consistently?
00:35:27He should this year, back
00:35:29to that conversation about the bench and letting them
00:35:31play against the Detroit Sulu World. They
00:35:33should lean on these guys. They've won
00:35:35so consistently with that second unit
00:35:37back to what Noah was saying last year.
00:35:39He was 22 last year,
00:35:41so I'm sorry. It was a little more than I thought.
00:35:43I thought he was a little lower.
00:35:45He got the minutes. He almost scored
00:35:47double digits. Is there another level? Can he go
00:35:49a little bit higher there? Can he be
00:35:5113-14 points off the bench sort of guy?
00:35:53I do wonder. I think
00:35:55so. Some of it's efficiency.
00:35:57He has those cold
00:35:59stretches. He can have a night
00:36:01where he's always seven from three.
00:36:03You want to balance that out a little bit if he's going
00:36:05to have a super consistent role. Then
00:36:07once you get to the playoff time, you always
00:36:09have that conversation of every
00:36:11round that you progress,
00:36:13those guys being a little less
00:36:15effective. Hauser counteracted
00:36:17pretty well right through the finals. He had the
00:36:19weaker East finals. Pritchard's
00:36:21the one who, besides those two half court shots,
00:36:23faded a little bit in that finals setting.
00:36:25A lot of it's matchups.
00:36:27A lot of it's going to be
00:36:29what they need into different second
00:36:31unit lineups. Again, back
00:36:33to what Noah was saying. They
00:36:35have won game after game after game.
00:36:37Those three guys, Hauser, Pritchard, and Coronet
00:36:39have been playing together.
00:36:41Scrimmages three years ago.
00:36:43The bench unit for that first run
00:36:45last year being the full bench in entirety
00:36:47for this team. Pritchard's
00:36:49stepping in in many ways. I said it
00:36:51many times last year, John.
00:36:53He did a lot of Brogdon things.
00:36:55We remember how significant of a role
00:36:57Brogdon had here playing that role.
00:36:59In many ways,
00:37:01I think Pritchard surpassed what they
00:37:03needed into the playoffs at
00:37:05that spot. Sixth man,
00:37:07probably a little short
00:37:09in terms of the volume he's going to get
00:37:11here. Is that a height joke?
00:37:13If you did
00:37:15put him in San Antonio
00:37:17as it looked like was going to happen there
00:37:19for a minute on that version
00:37:21of the Spurs, I don't
00:37:23think close to 20 points per game
00:37:25would be out of the question.
00:37:27Can he do the Banton somewhere bad?
00:37:29I bet he could.
00:37:31That's what I just said.
00:37:33I'm emphasizing it.
00:37:35By the way,
00:37:37the humor
00:37:39isn't lost on me that
00:37:41in place of Joe Sway,
00:37:43Noah had her Wi-Fi crap out.
00:37:45Yes, it
00:37:47happens, but it's not her fault.
00:37:49We had a second
00:37:51computer.
00:37:53Oh, the computer.
00:37:55That's right.
00:37:57My Wi-Fi's still paid, actually.
00:37:59Naked Wi-Fi.
00:38:01No, it's all good. Noah's
00:38:03so prepared. She has two laptops.
00:38:05Joe Sway only had half a laptop.
00:38:07It was
00:38:092009.
00:38:11It's a little bit different
00:38:13here.
00:38:15For
00:38:17those who don't know Joe Sway, Pavone
00:38:19accepted a job to be covering
00:38:21the Oklahoma City Thunder
00:38:23full-time. We could be seeing
00:38:25Joe Sway in the finals. I actually do think that
00:38:27that's, I wouldn't say likely.
00:38:29It's hard to nail a finals prediction this
00:38:31early, but those are your two betting favorites.
00:38:33What was your final prediction last year?
00:38:35I had the Warriors with
00:38:37Bob Williams as center.
00:38:39What about the Nuggets?
00:38:41I had the Nuggets
00:38:43the year before, by the way.
00:38:45The year they won it, I had Nuggets, but that's fine.
00:38:47Tiny, tiny aside,
00:38:49are the Nuggets done?
00:38:51No.
00:38:55I'm a little worried about that.
00:38:57I think it's a little bit of an overreaction, the Nuggets thing.
00:38:59It's an
00:39:01overreaction. I think they
00:39:03hit a wall last year. Definitely a little bit
00:39:05of a fatigue, and the KCP
00:39:07thing hurts. Look,
00:39:09we don't want to get alarmist
00:39:11now, but
00:39:13what's happening to the Nuggets is
00:39:15what's going to happen to the Celtics, which is you're going to be
00:39:17making business decisions that
00:39:19are going to make your team worse because
00:39:21you're going to try to find a way to get under
00:39:23aprons and penalties
00:39:25and this and that, and that's what teams are doing
00:39:27right now. It's a reality
00:39:29that we're pretending doesn't exist, but it
00:39:31does exist. The Nuggets definitely
00:39:33have to step back, but I have such a
00:39:35faith in their core
00:39:37and Jokic
00:39:39that, no, I mean,
00:39:41there's just, it's hard to get back
00:39:43to the finals. It's hard, but I'm not,
00:39:45I'm definitely not
00:39:47out
00:39:49on them. Let's move
00:39:51to the conversation we did want to talk about, and again,
00:39:53it's a preseason game, so we're not going to go on forever,
00:39:55but we did want to get to Jordan
00:39:57Walsh a little bit, and I'll say
00:39:59Walsh,
00:40:01one of Bobby's guys and one of Noah's guys.
00:40:03Springer,
00:40:05who you are kind of bullish on, Noah,
00:40:07and you want to see and you think could
00:40:09potentially, because you got that whole
00:40:11like, he's so
00:40:13young. He's like three years
00:40:15younger than Shireman.
00:40:17He's so young
00:40:19and still
00:40:21there's room there, and when they made
00:40:23the trade, they made it for the future, not for
00:40:25last year necessarily, which is a strange thing to
00:40:27do at the deadline, but a shrewd kind
00:40:29of move, but it's got to pay out
00:40:31if it's going to be worth it at some point
00:40:33or another, and then Jordan
00:40:35Walsh, who's kind of in that whole make or
00:40:37break-ish sort of third
00:40:39season of like, is he going to turn into
00:40:41something or is he just forever a 4A
00:40:43player or a G, riding
00:40:45that main shuttle back and forth? Is that the kind of guy
00:40:47he's going to be in this league? It was interesting
00:40:49that both of these
00:40:51and the way the game went for
00:40:53those who didn't watch the whole thing, starters played
00:40:55nearly the whole first quarter with Tillman
00:40:57coming in to spell
00:40:59Luke, I believe, for a little bit,
00:41:01but the top guys just played, and then
00:41:03that second unit was
00:41:05boom, was this,
00:41:07with Walsh and Springer kind of running out
00:41:09there and buried on the depth chart
00:41:11were Davison and Shireman
00:41:13and Lonnie Walker, who got in
00:41:15late, late, late in the game, so these
00:41:17guys were the B team right now.
00:41:19Does that tell you anything about
00:41:21how the Celtics are
00:41:23approaching the season? And again, it's only
00:41:25game one. Game two,
00:41:27Shireman might get 25 minutes with
00:41:29the second unit and they could be trying things out,
00:41:31but can you read anything into
00:41:33this or do you read anything into it
00:41:35in terms of
00:41:37the prominence
00:41:39with those guys were featured tonight?
00:41:41I can't
00:41:43conclude anything until we see the second game, because
00:41:45I'm kind of viewing this in
00:41:47a two-game span, and I'm sure Mizzou is
00:41:49as well, as far as thinking about
00:41:51the rotations and things. I will
00:41:53say, as you mentioned, John, I'm the...
00:41:55Wasn't it Banton who did it? Banton started one game
00:41:57last year and everyone was like, what? Or something
00:41:59like that? Is that what it was?
00:42:01Hernangomez years ago.
00:42:03Go ahead, Noah.
00:42:05I think Jaden Springer is somebody that
00:42:07I've seen flashes of defensively
00:42:09where it's like, okay, this guy
00:42:11not only can be a really good defender in the NBA,
00:42:13but he can actually be a gift
00:42:15to the defender in the NBA. I really believe that. I think he
00:42:17has one of those guys with a defensive ceiling,
00:42:19like an Avery Bradley, which I know is high praise.
00:42:21That being said, flashes
00:42:23doesn't necessarily mean that that's going to translate,
00:42:25and I was a little disappointed with the sample
00:42:27size that we saw today. I thought
00:42:29that he didn't look great, which
00:42:31again, I'm never going to overreact to a quarter
00:42:33of basketball, but it wasn't
00:42:35an opportunity to see him advance forward.
00:42:37But yeah, I
00:42:39think that when we're talking about Jordan and
00:42:41Jaden, Jordan Walsh, and this is his second season,
00:42:43so John, I just want to say,
00:42:45you mentioned this a couple times, I don't think that he's going to...
00:42:47I don't think this is a make-or-break year
00:42:49for him, and I don't think that the public's reviewing it.
00:42:51I think that he has
00:42:53a larger opportunity here, and he's going to spend
00:42:55most of the season in Maine, is my understanding.
00:42:57A guy like Jaden Springer,
00:42:59he's entering his fourth season, so
00:43:01he's going to require an
00:43:03opportunity to open up. There's going to need to be
00:43:05some sort of injury or some sort of
00:43:07extreme wrestling situation for Jaden Springer
00:43:09to even have a chance, and then he's
00:43:11going to have to capitalize on that chance, and there's going to
00:43:13be other guys, like a Baylor fireman, I think,
00:43:15that are also going to be vying for those minutes.
00:43:17And so a lot has to go
00:43:19in Jaden Springer's way for him to make a
00:43:21showcase that he can play in the NBA
00:43:23this season, and I don't know if it's going to happen.
00:43:25I just...
00:43:27You mentioned that, so again,
00:43:29where you're shaving money when you
00:43:31have so many star players is kind of here.
00:43:33This is the last year that he's guaranteed.
00:43:35It's a team option for him
00:43:37next year, and that's a place
00:43:39where you can shave to, again, it's not big
00:43:41money, but it's the fourth year
00:43:43of a second-round picks deal at
00:43:45$2.5 million. That's where you're saying,
00:43:47I'm not playing him anyway.
00:43:49I'm just going to fill this with another second-round
00:43:51draft pick who's making $800,000
00:43:53and save myself $1.4 here
00:43:55if he has no
00:43:57role here.
00:43:59It's not big money for a contributor
00:44:01or someone who can play rotation minutes,
00:44:03but when you're trying to save a nickel or two,
00:44:05that's kind of where you're cutting. That's the first
00:44:07cuts you make. That's why I mentioned make or break.
00:44:09By the end of this year, you've got to determine,
00:44:11is this person going to play any
00:44:13significant minutes for me in the future
00:44:15or not?
00:44:17Or he's just trade filler.
00:44:21They haven't ruled out
00:44:23shaking up the roster
00:44:25later on if needs emerge.
00:44:27That's all money that could go into a trade.
00:44:29I know the trade rules have changed a little bit
00:44:31here, but the odds are against these guys
00:44:33given their draft position,
00:44:35given what they've shown so far
00:44:37in their careers. Springer's shooting
00:44:39in small samples, albeit with
00:44:41a little bit of luck.
00:44:43The Philadelphia side of things,
00:44:45that led them obviously to give up on him
00:44:47and save some tax money rather than
00:44:49stay with his developmental track here.
00:44:51That's the difficulty for these guys.
00:44:53I want to see some of these guys this year.
00:44:55We've talked about in the past, John, they're not going to get better
00:44:57without playing. They're not going to
00:44:59improve without those opportunities.
00:45:01As Noah said, some of it's going to
00:45:03have to happen in terms of injuries
00:45:05or other availabilities there, rest nights,
00:45:07working them in. I do like working
00:45:09two guys in, and they made a pretty concerted effort
00:45:11to do that here, clearly in this game.
00:45:13Walsh took more of an advantage
00:45:15in this spot. Springer,
00:45:17the shooting limited him
00:45:19again. That might be what
00:45:21limits him in this league, despite the age
00:45:23and Walsh being a young guy too there.
00:45:25I wrote this morning about that
00:45:27idea of playing the youth a little bit more
00:45:29this year, starting to take that long
00:45:31view because they're not going to have these veterans forever.
00:45:33That's the great part about right now.
00:45:35We remember three years ago, John,
00:45:37the Romeos and the Smiths of the world,
00:45:39and it drove us crazy. We're just like, get rid of these
00:45:41guys. Bring in the whites and
00:45:43holidays of the world who you can actually rely on
00:45:45and never think about young guys
00:45:47or draft picks again. Brad didn't even
00:45:49take a first-round pick for three, four years.
00:45:51The thought
00:45:53of going back to that a little bit
00:45:55isn't ideal,
00:45:57but it's necessary now. I look at what
00:45:59Minnesota's doing, bringing in
00:46:01Dillingham, bringing in Terrence Shannon,
00:46:03even bringing in Dee Vincenzo
00:46:05in that deal and another pick.
00:46:07They're starting to say, all right, we have
00:46:09Edwards and all these guys, this great
00:46:11starting lineup, but
00:46:13as we start to pay these guys, and Towns
00:46:15obviously goes out the door last week,
00:46:17you need some of these guys
00:46:19on the back end. The tough part with the Celtics,
00:46:21as you guys just said, is
00:46:23they're just swapping in some of these
00:46:25guys. They might be swapping
00:46:27in some again. It was Banton last year,
00:46:29now it's Springer. Walsh was here the last two
00:46:31years. Are they taking another second-round fire
00:46:33at that point?
00:46:35That's a tougher way to develop, right?
00:46:37Not investing in top-end talent
00:46:39picks, that sort of thing, and just
00:46:41looking at flyers and unsung
00:46:43talent and second-draft guys,
00:46:45which Springer effectively is here.
00:46:47It's tough to develop those guys for the NBA
00:46:49because much of their development, obviously,
00:46:51is going to happen here in Maine. Look
00:46:53at Davison today. This is year three for
00:46:55him, and he's been so good in Maine, but there's
00:46:57just so little hope of him cracking
00:46:59an NBA rotation. That's where it feels like
00:47:01in Walsh are right now, too.
00:47:05Again,
00:47:07I think Springer,
00:47:09this is his last year of
00:47:11a contract,
00:47:13correct? Yeah.
00:47:15Four million option. He's in RFA
00:47:17next year, so again, he's
00:47:19got
00:47:21to kind of figure out... Let's make a break
00:47:23time for these guys a little bit, even though it's not.
00:47:25Davison, Springer,
00:47:27all of these guys. And again,
00:47:29this is the toughest part of being on
00:47:31this particular Celtics team.
00:47:33There's no
00:47:35room to develop
00:47:37at this point.
00:47:39Again, what are you doing? It's basically
00:47:41just like Hunger Games
00:47:43for the 10th man
00:47:45minutes right now between five,
00:47:47six people, and that's about it.
00:47:49And we saw it last year.
00:47:51It doesn't work that way, even with established
00:47:53NBA players, let alone young people who
00:47:55haven't played at this level trying to find their footing.
00:47:57We watched the Lamar
00:47:59Stevens-Banton
00:48:01reset
00:48:03shuffle last year. Unless
00:48:05someone was kind of given
00:48:0712 to 15 minutes every single
00:48:09game in a particular role and
00:48:11just told to go out and do that nightly,
00:48:13there was no way that those people were getting in any rhythm.
00:48:15So it's really going to be difficult.
00:48:17So I am... I don't want to say concerned,
00:48:19but if you're going to throw in overreactions
00:48:21for today, not just
00:48:23today, but today in the summer and this and that,
00:48:25it's...
00:48:27You have your first first-round draft pick
00:48:29in a while,
00:48:31and you don't know what to do
00:48:33with them, with Shireman
00:48:35here, because I don't know how he's
00:48:37going to see a minute on this team.
00:48:39Well, I think what it comes
00:48:41down to is that this team was unusually
00:48:43healthy along the perimeter last year.
00:48:45Really, nobody missed time.
00:48:47Knock on wood, you get that again, but
00:48:49statistically speaking, you're probably
00:48:51not going to. There's probably going to be somebody
00:48:53that misses a somewhat extended period
00:48:55of time, even if it's just an ankle sprain or something.
00:48:57And so if you look at the current rotation,
00:48:59there really is not an opportunity for
00:49:01anybody to enter, and it's kind of a weird
00:49:03situation. Even just talking to guys at camp,
00:49:05it's like, you know, they kind of know that, too.
00:49:07They know that it's the exact same situation as last
00:49:09year, and so they're just kind of looking for the veterans
00:49:11and looking to learn and absorb things.
00:49:13But I think that the only pathway
00:49:15they're going to have, and this happens all the time in the NBA,
00:49:17where somebody goes down, and all of a sudden, somebody
00:49:19else gets an opportunity, and that's kind of what
00:49:21catapults their career. So obviously,
00:49:23you don't hope for that, but in the event
00:49:25that that happens, I think that there are some guys
00:49:27that they're aware, are
00:49:29primed and ready to go in those moments.
00:49:31And I think James Springer and Baylor Shireman
00:49:33are two of the guys right now that are
00:49:35wing players that they
00:49:37want to see out there, but there just might not be
00:49:39an opportunity. I would say Jordan Walsh is
00:49:41probably a little bit below that in the list,
00:49:43just because of his youth and the fact that I think he's
00:49:45just a little bit more raw than those two still.
00:49:47But that's what it's going to come down to.
00:49:49So, at least for injury's sake,
00:49:51if something does happen, I think it's going to create an opportunity
00:49:53for people. But I'll go back
00:49:55to the creativity thing, John. Finding
00:49:57ways to get them in there, finding ways
00:49:59to utilize them. You don't want
00:50:01the knee-smith situation, where you're just throwing
00:50:03a pass to a grenade. Yeah, that's what I always think
00:50:05back. Yeah.
00:50:07If you hit your first
00:50:09shot, I'll let you stay in the game.
00:50:11If you miss it, this is your one
00:50:13four-minute stint, and you're never going back.
00:50:15That's not a way to develop. And Shireman's
00:50:17in that boat, right? Because this is a guy who we've seen
00:50:19in almost every game. And again,
00:50:21I'm not going to be able to recall his
00:50:23exact Vegas box score,
00:50:25but you guys were there. It felt like he came out, and he
00:50:27missed his first few shots every single time.
00:50:29But it was Vegas. Didn't he go all four
00:50:31in the first game, I want to say? Yeah, but it was
00:50:33Vegas, and he could keep playing through it. And again,
00:50:35it's lesser competition.
00:50:37And
00:50:39he got to kind of play through his issues.
00:50:41And then some would go down,
00:50:43but I mean, he immediately
00:50:45comes in, and it's Brick.
00:50:47Trying to pass to
00:50:49Keita in transition.
00:50:51At the top of the key. And Keita's like,
00:50:53what the f*** are you throwing me the ball
00:50:55for here? I'm not
00:50:57the guy you pass the ball above
00:50:59the arc. And then he misses
00:51:01his shots, and
00:51:03badly misses.
00:51:05That freaks people out a little bit.
00:51:07Not only was he missing to start a lot of those
00:51:09Vegas League games, he was side of the backboard
00:51:11or air ball sort of missing. And that's
00:51:13what he did again tonight. It's easy
00:51:15to bury the rookie too, and that's
00:51:17what they did in this game. I was
00:51:19a little surprised that happened,
00:51:21but that's where
00:51:23he is. Obviously, not
00:51:25fully up to speed with everything yet.
00:51:27But like Noah said, you know, I do think
00:51:29it's, and this is the best way to look at it, Noah,
00:51:31is it's a two game sample where
00:51:33it would make sense.
00:51:35I would be, I'm gonna be
00:51:37like three out of ten
00:51:39annoyed if
00:51:41Shireman doesn't get
00:51:43legit run against actual
00:51:45NBA players in that second game.
00:51:47You know, running with a second unit
00:51:49or maybe even going in there. And again, here's
00:51:51what, just to quibble,
00:51:53I get it. But in the
00:51:55preseason, you should be mixing and matching a little
00:51:57bit too. So you do want to see, I didn't
00:51:59love the, you know what, I take it
00:52:01all back. I get it. It's the first time together
00:52:03you want to see the starters together, you want to whatever.
00:52:05But you also want to see them mix
00:52:07with other people and starters. Because as I said,
00:52:09in the NBA, you're not playing
00:52:11five in, five out.
00:52:13So you do have to kind of see it. So
00:52:15I do want them to get into some regular rotations
00:52:17and then just one day decide,
00:52:19okay, Shireman's gonna be in here and he's gonna
00:52:21play with this. We're talking
00:52:23about overreactions though. People are already
00:52:25taking to Twitter and calling him a bust.
00:52:27Okay? Bust. To which
00:52:29Bobby Manning had to come
00:52:31in and vigorously defend it.
00:52:33No.
00:52:35Preseason overreactions.
00:52:37Are we
00:52:39alive?
00:52:43Like I said, is there enough
00:52:45in your snapshot view
00:52:47to be like, huh, I kind of was hoping
00:52:49to see a little bit more. I'm not going to go as far as to say
00:52:51bum, but are you, and again, I hate
00:52:53using concerned or alarmed. We're
00:52:55not trying to stir a controversy here, but
00:52:57as you're watching Shireman, what are you actually
00:52:59thinking and feeling deep down that you
00:53:01feel that you can't say out in the
00:53:03open because then people will jump all over
00:53:05you and say that you're
00:53:07overreacting. What's your non-sensible
00:53:09take?
00:53:11Mine?
00:53:13Noah first. Your non-sensible
00:53:15gut reaction. I only have sensible takes, Josh.
00:53:17No, no, no.
00:53:19I don't know. I mean. It's not the point of this exercise.
00:53:21That's not how I planned this. No, I know, but I mean
00:53:23Baylor hasn't looked great, but
00:53:25the thing is, I just feel like
00:53:27he can make two
00:53:29or three three-pointers and all of a sudden we're having
00:53:31a completely different conversation and I just can't
00:53:33allow myself to go there, even inside.
00:53:35I don't even think he played for minutes in this game.
00:53:37What did you say?
00:53:39He came in at the very end when it was
00:53:41just garbage time. Think about what he did
00:53:43today. He did nothing today. Yes, it's a
00:53:45ridiculous overreaction, but between
00:53:47Vegas and now and just
00:53:49seeing. Yeah, he didn't shoot well in Vegas,
00:53:51but seeing how he moves mathematically
00:53:53and any concern over, I see people
00:53:55talking about like he looks a little slow,
00:53:57you know, slow-footed, you know,
00:53:59and this and that. Is there anything
00:54:01kind of like, well, yeah, I kind of need
00:54:03to forget the shot. You assume the shots going to
00:54:05fall. He's a legit shooter, but he's also
00:54:07a good playmaker and he's a good ball handler.
00:54:09He has good basketball skill
00:54:11just what translates to the NBA level. It's hard to
00:54:13see and it's definitely hard to see in
00:54:15the first time he's played against
00:54:17anybody who isn't on a Vegas League roster,
00:54:19which is what we're seeing what we saw for
00:54:21five minutes tonight.
00:54:23Well, the concern is he's
00:54:25a ball handling
00:54:27player who probably won't have the ball
00:54:29a ton and
00:54:31I said it during summerly. He just does
00:54:33magical things with the ball in his hands. He's
00:54:35such a great passer. He's a rhythm
00:54:37jump shooter. Obviously,
00:54:39he seems to be more comfortable shooting off
00:54:41the dribble rather than standing
00:54:43in the corner catching shooting
00:54:45what his role will probably be early on in this
00:54:47offense. So that's where I go back to the creativity
00:54:49with Walsh. Can you get
00:54:51him going downhill a little bit more toward the basket
00:54:53off the ball?
00:54:55They actually had him at point quite a bit in
00:54:57which was weird again back to
00:54:59experimentation. So I didn't really
00:55:01understand that Springer
00:55:03probably another guy who's going to have to
00:55:05screen and catch the ball inside the arc
00:55:07and do some stuff in between because the three is just
00:55:09not there and with Shireman
00:55:11probably need some opportunities to be a
00:55:13secondary ball handler. I'd love to see him
00:55:15get the ball a little bit on the break, you
00:55:17know, just do some of the things because he ended up
00:55:19having a pretty effective
00:55:21summerly despite
00:55:23the fact that he didn't shoot. Why? Because he's
00:55:25a good rebounder. He's
00:55:27a great passer and the defense
00:55:29that's going to be the biggest hurdle
00:55:31obviously and maybe that's not at a point
00:55:33yet where they feel comfortable mixing him in
00:55:35with some of the regulars yet
00:55:37but there's ways to hide
00:55:39guys in that aspect too. And you
00:55:41know, you brought up the 10th man race earlier
00:55:43John like Walsh isn't
00:55:45a great shooter Springer isn't
00:55:47much of a shooter at all. Some
00:55:49of these guys were hoping could fill
00:55:51a spot like that don't have a shot
00:55:53and Shireman does and
00:55:55that's why I think he's in the best position
00:55:57to run away with that spot. If he can just
00:55:59figure out the speed of the game
00:56:01their plays all the
00:56:03stuff they're trying to do on defense
00:56:05and some of that's a little bit of a compromise
00:56:07I think with a young player, right? He's
00:56:09not going to do everything right.
00:56:11You want to compare it to Drake
00:56:13Majon? There's going to be
00:56:15mistakes. There's going to be
00:56:17some issues here
00:56:19but you have to deal with some of that
00:56:21Don't want to compare the borderline second
00:56:23rounder to a top three
00:56:25pick. That's the thing too, right?
00:56:27He fell to 30 for a reason
00:56:29and we're going to see some of those words.
00:56:31Again, we have to be realistic
00:56:33about it. If you go through and
00:56:35you charted the NBA draft
00:56:37and it's changed over time
00:56:39you know, just as the
00:56:41composition of the draft has changed
00:56:43and it's just, you know, incredibly
00:56:45there's so much talent out there and
00:56:47it's just challenging to make NBA rosters
00:56:49but I mean, again, 1 to
00:56:515 is where you're finding the majority of your
00:56:53all-stars. 5 to 15,
00:56:55you're lucky if you get your rotation player
00:56:57is the reality and anything 15 and beyond
00:56:59if these guys stick on rosters
00:57:01or end up being rotation players, it's usually a
00:57:03pretty big success. Of course, there are
00:57:05stars throughout and you
00:57:07can find them in different places but
00:57:09don't cherry pick, well, this guy went
00:57:11in the 20s and this guy went in the second round
00:57:13The reality, the
00:57:15expectation is if somebody, if
00:57:17someone sticks and is a rotation player
00:57:19being drafted at 30,
00:57:21it's a massive, massive success
00:57:23by the Celtics front office
00:57:25being able to pluck a player like that
00:57:27at this point in the draft. It does,
00:57:29it happens every once in a, it happens
00:57:31but it's not the norm. What you're
00:57:33hoping for is a home run, right?
00:57:35And I don't think Shireman's a home run player
00:57:37like, I don't think there's a ceiling here where
00:57:39you're like, there's something in this
00:57:41guy where he could be a potential
00:57:43you know, year in, year out all-star
00:57:45I think what you're hoping is, is
00:57:47you know, in some of the comps that have been made
00:57:49with some of the other lefty shooters, you know
00:57:51you know, in the league
00:57:53before him that, you know, the comparison has been made
00:57:55to, that's kind of what you're hoping for
00:57:57is a guy who can kind of hold his own, not
00:57:59be a liability defensively, knock down
00:58:01shots, make some plays. Is it going to happen
00:58:03in year one? Probably not
00:58:05Yeah, and I think
00:58:07the other reality with Shireman is that
00:58:09he's not a Sam Houser-esque shooter
00:58:11and I've said this a couple of times but
00:58:13when you look at his career shooting numbers
00:58:15which those I'm always down to look at
00:58:17you know, the larger sample size, like
00:58:19he's been a good shooter but he doesn't rival
00:58:21Sam Houser's numbers coming into the NBA
00:58:23and so, I think
00:58:25what they like about him is, like Bobby has said
00:58:27kind of, you know, he's done a lot of all-around
00:58:29things and that he, he has the
00:58:31ceiling of being a better, kind of more
00:58:33versatile player, but he's
00:58:35not a guy that's going to come in and I think give you
00:58:37like crazy three-point shooting
00:58:39that's not, you know, that just hasn't really been exactly
00:58:41and it's really, really hard, I feel like
00:58:43I feel like we underrate how hard it is to find guys
00:58:45like Sam Houser that can shoot like Sam Houser
00:58:47and it's why Sam Houser signed a big contract
00:58:49and so, yeah, I think
00:58:51Baylor Shireman also, like, I just can't
00:58:53imagine the nerves of going into the
00:58:55NBA and having your first NBA minutes
00:58:57and there's a lot of really good NBA players that look
00:58:59terrible in their first few games and
00:59:01miss their first 20 shots and that's why I just like
00:59:03caution, freaking out about the
00:59:05air balls or whatever because there's been, wasn't
00:59:07Jamal Murray one of them? Wasn't he one of the guys that
00:59:09like missed his first 20 shots or something?
00:59:11Trey Young, I think. Grim on green.
00:59:13Didn't Pritchard
00:59:15go 0 for like November
00:59:17and just like, when he
00:59:19first started, I thought Payton
00:59:21struggled as well. Grant was the
00:59:23Oh, it was Grant. Grant went 0
00:59:25for whatever. Yeah, that was Grant also.
00:59:27Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:29I think you never know what it's going to mean.
00:59:31We've heard good things coming out of camp.
00:59:33We're not going to hear bad things, but it sounds
00:59:35like he's been playing well and doing well
00:59:37and he's adjusting.
00:59:39How about his look?
00:59:41He looks like a totally different human.
00:59:43It's not just the
00:59:45haircut and everything like that. It's like
00:59:47he definitely, I mean, he said
00:59:49what did he say?
00:59:51You guys were there covering it. 15 pounds of muscle
00:59:53and it's not, he does not look
00:59:55bulky. He looks like he got
00:59:57lean but stronger, which again
00:59:59is good because you oftentimes don't see
01:00:01that kind of physical development
01:00:03in rookies until year two when they have a
01:00:05chance to kind of go through an entire
01:00:07year.
01:00:09It's a whole, it's not just
01:00:11I lifted weights for the summer and I got
01:00:13big. It's the
01:00:15sleep. It's the eating.
01:00:17It's all of it kind of rolled into one
01:00:19like what it takes to be a professional athlete
01:00:21and then the right
01:00:23workout regimen that works out for your
01:00:25body and your game and what you're trying to
01:00:27accomplish and all of that stuff. He looks
01:00:29physically a good bit better
01:00:31than he did before.
01:00:33He's one of the more interesting
01:00:35guys on the preseason roster
01:00:37because it could go one way and he's in Maine
01:00:39for a lot of the year and it could go the other way
01:00:41where he sneaks into that rotation and
01:00:43what would you call O'Shea last year?
01:00:45Like 9, 10th in the rotation?
01:00:47So that spot's open for someone
01:00:49to take. Sphe, similar thing.
01:00:51When guys were out, he would play and he'd
01:00:53actually be pretty effective in that role. So can
01:00:55he do that? O'Shea had a little more
01:00:57seasoning. Sphe was a veteran.
01:00:59There's a rookie trying to do that in that spot
01:01:01and then you always go back to does he have the coaches
01:01:03trust, which is a challenge in almost any
01:01:05situation. I think that's going to be
01:01:07something Joe has to deal with
01:01:09as well as he'll have his guys,
01:01:11he'll have the people he trusts. Then when
01:01:13you have to go to the third wave
01:01:15of guys, who are you going
01:01:17to rely on? And that's a real question here
01:01:19right now because there are going to be nights early
01:01:21on where they're pretty thin in terms of what they have
01:01:23and who can step
01:01:25in and help them do some stuff here. Walsh
01:01:27probably in that conversation.
01:01:29Shireman, maybe.
01:01:31Springer.
01:01:33This comment here from Derek. Noah
01:01:35said this off air before we started.
01:01:37He spent a couple months
01:01:39in Boston. That's what happened to Shireman.
01:01:41He looks like he's about to
01:01:43rob Fenway Park.
01:01:45An extra in Missoula's
01:01:47favorite movie. It definitely looks like he's
01:01:49got a little bit of Boston in him now.
01:01:51We need to ask him about those memes.
01:01:53We got to ask him about it.
01:01:55Final thing here to
01:01:57anything that's
01:01:59left over that you wanted to talk about
01:02:01before we wrap it?
01:02:03No, I just think
01:02:05my trips to Maine are going to be more useful this year
01:02:07because I think there's going to be a lot of interesting guys over there.
01:02:09I was just thinking about that.
01:02:11I think they are going to have a lot of the guys that we saw today
01:02:13are going to spend a lot of time in Portland just because there's really no
01:02:15space for them.
01:02:17That's where I'll be on my off days.
01:02:19Your off days.
01:02:21That sounds
01:02:23fun.
01:02:25What are you doing on your off days?
01:02:27I'm working out of state.
01:02:29Okay, for fun.
01:02:31I'm acting
01:02:33as the sole media member out of the Maine's other teams.
01:02:35That's fine. We need it.
01:02:37Bobby begs me for these trips
01:02:39and I'm like, if you really want
01:02:41to, go.
01:02:43You can go.
01:02:45Speaking of Maine, I thought J.D. looked pretty good at the end of the game
01:02:47too and I don't know if there's a pathway
01:02:49for him but he just keeps getting better and better.
01:02:51I've heard his summer
01:02:53workouts have been pretty good around the team too there.
01:02:55His summer league was pretty good.
01:02:57Is there
01:02:59a scenario where he could sneak into
01:03:01some sort of role eventually?
01:03:03You wonder because they could have just let him
01:03:05go this summer, right?
01:03:07Brad, for some reason, stepped in and was like, we need him back.
01:03:09He's got to be part of this thing.
01:03:11I know J.D. wanted to stay a little bit too
01:03:13but he actually looked like he took a step
01:03:15late in that game.
01:03:17I'll give him some credit for that.
01:03:19Lonnie?
01:03:21I guess we've got to talk about it.
01:03:23That's the other thing I wanted to say.
01:03:25What are we doing here?
01:03:27You talk about
01:03:29not playing. Fine.
01:03:31Sharman started
01:03:33the fourth quarter with what was clearly
01:03:35Team 3. Walker wasn't even
01:03:37on Team 3. Walker was on Team 4.
01:03:39On whatever's
01:03:41left at the
01:03:43very end of the game, he entered
01:03:45late with four minutes or so.
01:03:47Left in the quarter there.
01:03:49Took a couple shots. That's it.
01:03:51Noah, you and I
01:03:53and several other people
01:03:55who follow
01:03:57and cover the Celtics, our initial
01:03:59reaction to the Lonnie Walker
01:04:01signing was like, this
01:04:03is an actual basketball player
01:04:05here for nothing. This could be
01:04:07a steal. Then immediately
01:04:09the report started to come out like,
01:04:11yeah, it's one of these weird contracts
01:04:13and he might not even make it.
01:04:15Everybody's been pouring cold water
01:04:17on Walker.
01:04:19A deluge of cold water
01:04:21on Walker since that
01:04:23initial spark
01:04:25we got after he signed.
01:04:27Feels like the vibes here are like,
01:04:29guys, don't overdo
01:04:31it with the Walker stuff. I don't think this guy's
01:04:33going to be here.
01:04:35Were we totally wrong?
01:04:37Is there no place for him here?
01:04:39I thought this was a
01:04:41flyer to see here.
01:04:43Now we're talking about, well, if he can put forth
01:04:45a good year in Maine, maybe we can
01:04:47make something of him. Is this who he is?
01:04:49First of all, I think that
01:04:51people owe Bobby an apology because people
01:04:53are very mad at Bobby for saying that he might not make the team.
01:04:55I do think that's very likely to be the
01:04:57case now. In fact, it seems
01:04:59pretty obvious that he's not going to make the team
01:05:01in the 15th spot and then he's first
01:05:03going to go to Maine. I think the better question is
01:05:05does somebody pick him up and does he find
01:05:07a spot somewhere else?
01:05:09I don't think it's going to be in Boston
01:05:11honestly because I do think that if he goes to Maine
01:05:13and plays well, there's going to be
01:05:15a team that's going to need him and want
01:05:17him and realize, why is this guy on the market?
01:05:19Unless he struggles, but
01:05:21the understanding that I'm getting and all the
01:05:23signals that we've heard is that he's not going
01:05:25to be a part of this team
01:05:27this year, at least in the beginning of the season
01:05:29and maybe later on if he's still in Maine and he's playing
01:05:31well, they pick him up later on.
01:05:33It's strange. I still feel high on
01:05:35him as a player. I've watched a lot of Lonnie Walker
01:05:37over the last few years. I think that he can contribute.
01:05:39But from the financial situation
01:05:41and just what we're hearing, it doesn't seem
01:05:43likely that he's going to get that 15th
01:05:45spot. So just mentally preparing
01:05:47people, I think people are going to be a little disappointed because I know
01:05:49fans are excited about him and I get it because I was too
01:05:51when the initial signing
01:05:53was reported.
01:05:55Yeah.
01:05:57Weird.
01:05:59You probably want to take a longer look at him than this though.
01:06:01Again, Sunday you might play
01:06:03no starters. Who knows?
01:06:05Why would he go to Maine? That's the whole point.
01:06:07It's not just the Celtics and the
01:06:09space on this roster. What are we missing
01:06:11here? You're a pro
01:06:13who's played legit NBA minutes,
01:06:15rotation minutes, albeit for not
01:06:17great teams.
01:06:19What are you proving to
01:06:21people in Maine?
01:06:23This is almost like I don't
01:06:25audition. I just get offers.
01:06:27If you're him, have you
01:06:29not earned the right to
01:06:31put me on your team if you want? But if you don't,
01:06:33I'm just going to go to a different team. I find
01:06:35this odd that what's in
01:06:37for Lonnie Walker to stick
01:06:39in Maine to prove that he could be the
01:06:4112th person on this team.
01:06:43I don't understand it
01:06:45at all at that point.
01:06:47I don't think it's for this team.
01:06:49No, I think that he just
01:06:51couldn't. I don't think he got any
01:06:53offers. That's my understanding
01:06:55of it. He didn't and there's plenty of people out there
01:06:57who are getting offers. I just don't think they're coming
01:06:59back on a deal like there's other people
01:07:01out there like Lamar Stevens, JustSign,
01:07:03O'Shea's not out there. These are people
01:07:05who've played professional. Jay Crowder.
01:07:07Is Jay Crowder signing
01:07:09with a team to play it in Maine?
01:07:11No, he's signing for someone
01:07:13who's going to play him or he's not signing at all.
01:07:15That's what I mean. I'm not saying
01:07:17that Lonnie Walker has his cake
01:07:19before to go. I don't get why he would come
01:07:21to a place where the option is
01:07:23go prove yourself here. I just sit
01:07:25at home and do nothing and wait for somebody.
01:07:27Wait for the phone to ring. It's weird.
01:07:29Or go overseas.
01:07:31That's always difficult.
01:07:33That's always difficult, right? Because when you go
01:07:35overseas, you're pretty much done in the
01:07:37NBA. Not many guys leave and come back.
01:07:39Yabusele, the rare exception.
01:07:41So,
01:07:43it's that last ditch effort
01:07:45to hang on here. And you mentioned it, John. Many
01:07:47veterans have fallen out, especially this summer.
01:07:49For many teams, it's more
01:07:51advantageous financially to
01:07:53just leave a spot open or give
01:07:55it to a younger guy. That's what I mean.
01:07:57It's more of an economical decision
01:07:59for most teams to make rather than like,
01:08:01Oh, geez. I watched some main highlights
01:08:03last night and this Lonnie Walker guy caught my eye.
01:08:05You know what you're signing if you
01:08:07bring him on. I don't think you need a
01:08:09showcase. So, I don't get why he would
01:08:11do that. I find the whole situation really
01:08:13perplexing.
01:08:15Yeah, I get what Noah
01:08:17is saying. You could showcase yourself for
01:08:19elsewhere. But the way he's talked
01:08:21about wanting to be with Derek, wanting
01:08:23to be with Holiday, who he's worked out with, and
01:08:25just want to be a part of the situation.
01:08:27To me,
01:08:29there's had to be some acceptance
01:08:31that he might have to
01:08:33go to Maine, spend a
01:08:35month or two up there, work on reshaping
01:08:37his game and tailoring it
01:08:39to their system. Because you look at the
01:08:41two shots he took tonight, those
01:08:43aren't shots he's going to be able to take on the
01:08:45floor for the Celtics. So, you're forcing it
01:08:47inside and firing up a three up the dribble.
01:08:49He needs to be a more
01:08:51complimentary guy. And you see him at these
01:08:53training camp sessions. He's such a great
01:08:55corner three shooter. He knocks them down in droves
01:08:57in the practices that
01:08:59we get to watch.
01:09:01The numbers for him in that
01:09:03spot are really good. He's
01:09:05talked about being able to guard the guard
01:09:07spots well. And that's something
01:09:09I've heard positive reviews about
01:09:11when it comes to him. And people are excited
01:09:13about that scoring.
01:09:15And that's a real value.
01:09:17At a 15th
01:09:19spot on a roster, is it worth
01:09:21$12 million, which is effectively what they'll
01:09:23be paying at that spot? That's what they're going to
01:09:25have to figure out. But what they're also going to
01:09:27have to decide here is... Honestly, no.
01:09:29If I were the Celtics, I'd go down to 13
01:09:31guys.
01:09:33What you're paying for nothing.
01:09:35Paying $12 million for a person
01:09:37not to play is insane.
01:09:39How do you feel about him?
01:09:41What's up, Noah?
01:09:43Do you feel like he can be a guy?
01:09:45Go ahead, Bobby.
01:09:47No, Noah, what were you saying?
01:09:49No, I think
01:09:51with the Lonnie Walker situation,
01:09:53there's a lot of different ways.
01:09:55Once you're in that spot where it's September
01:09:57and you don't have a spot in the NBA,
01:09:59you have a couple of decisions to make. Are you going to take
01:10:01a contract overseas? Are you going to sit at home and hope
01:10:03for the best? Your odds aren't great at
01:10:05that point. There's a bunch of guys that are in that boat
01:10:07and a handful of them are going to get opportunities.
01:10:09And a lot of guys... I listen to Austin Rivers
01:10:11podcast. Last year around this time, he
01:10:13was really hoping that something was going to come along and it never
01:10:15did. And he was going to workouts
01:10:17and you hear all these reports of John Wall
01:10:19and Isaiah Thomas. And I do think
01:10:21actually that the humility to play in the G-League
01:10:23and the ability to showcase not just
01:10:25what you can contribute on the court, but what kind
01:10:27of guy you can be off the court has worked
01:10:29for people in the past. And my understanding
01:10:31is that's the pathway that he's going to take here.
01:10:33And I also think that this is an organization that
01:10:35has a really good track record of development,
01:10:37just a good culture, a really good reputation.
01:10:39It's something that when I was in summer league, I was talking
01:10:41to a lot of people about, just like other
01:10:43executives and scouts and people. And they
01:10:45said, it's not a really good ref for
01:10:47if you're a guy that doesn't really know where to go. Get
01:10:49involved, get involved with Maine.
01:10:51It draws people in.
01:10:53That's what I feel like his motive was.
01:10:55Yeah. So he knows people there.
01:10:57The team was probably willing to offer him a spot
01:10:59and go to Maine and show that you can be a leader.
01:11:01He's a veteran player. He's not a young guy.
01:11:03Show that you can be a leader and a good teammate
01:11:05and have the word get out that Lonnie Walker
01:11:07is a really good culture fit.
01:11:09I think that could really help. It's not going to be like,
01:11:11Lonnie Walker, you look at his highlight reel from the Maine
01:11:13Celtics, okay, now we can sign him.
01:11:15I think it's that other stuff that maybe people aren't sure about.
01:11:17Um, and so I'm still high
01:11:19on him. I'm not willing to get off the Lonnie Walker
01:11:21train, but I'm, I'm understanding that the situation
01:11:23and the circumstances are maybe not what
01:11:25I thought when Will's reported that he signed a
01:11:27one-year deal, which was the initial report,
01:11:29which is maybe mentally why so many of us were having
01:11:31a hard time adjusting away from that
01:11:33because the initial tweet said for a
01:11:35one-year deal. And then we later learned it really wasn't
01:11:37bad at all. So we'll see.
01:11:39I just don't get it. It's almost
01:11:41like, it's almost like he's like on double C
01:11:43group probation and being punished for something
01:11:45like, it's like, you will play with the fourth
01:11:47team in the first preseason game
01:11:49and you must show your worth in
01:11:51Maine. Like I find it odd
01:11:53that he was brought in under those circumstances
01:11:55instead of just brought in.
01:11:57You either want him or you don't.
01:11:59What the hell did you bring him in for?
01:12:01It makes, from,
01:12:03maybe you can convince me in his perspective
01:12:05that, you know, Maine
01:12:07and the buddies here and this and that, and he can
01:12:09show out and it's a better option than doing X, Y
01:12:11and Z. From the Celtics perspective, I barely
01:12:13get it at this point. So,
01:12:15I find it weird
01:12:17if you brought him in and you
01:12:19give him an opportunity
01:12:21because you're hoping for what? Like, everything
01:12:23to me is like, wow,
01:12:25did we get lucky here? Like, look,
01:12:27you pulled this guy off the street
01:12:29and they're playing, they're
01:12:31in the rotation and doing great.
01:12:33That's what, that's, you want to
01:12:35show, that's how you show you're a genius. If you're
01:12:37Brad Stevens, like, look what I was able to get.
01:12:39Nobody wanted this guy. Why
01:12:41would you make it so hard for them?
01:12:43It's almost like you've got to, like,
01:12:45he's got to earn his way back
01:12:47like he did something wrong instead
01:12:49of, throw him in there and let's see if he can play.
01:12:51He's an NBA player. He might be able to crack the rotation.
01:12:53The approach to me, I feel like
01:12:55there's something we're missing with Lonnie Walker
01:12:57that we still don't have here, but
01:12:59I don't know. We'll see as time goes
01:13:01on and if his role changes.
01:13:03Maybe they're being deferential to some
01:13:05of the guys who had been here beforehand
01:13:07first, but I don't know. We'll see where it goes.
01:13:09Well, I remember three years ago,
01:13:11John, they signed Cornett to the G League
01:13:13and I called it a steal
01:13:15and they reshaped his game and now look
01:13:17where he is.
01:13:19I took these out. I can't hear you.
01:13:21They're out.
01:13:23I have to say to Lonnie, like,
01:13:25for all the Cornett jokes,
01:13:27Lou Cornett is a very good basketball player and he's been a very
01:13:29important part of this team. So I do think,
01:13:31I do think you're, you hit your, you know,
01:13:33the right, it was the right take to hold on
01:13:35to because it has aged well, even
01:13:37people are always going to hate on Cornett. I just want to
01:13:39put it out there to your credit.
01:13:41I think he got lucky.
01:13:43I think it was less about
01:13:45basketball analytics and
01:13:47more sentimentality. He had a
01:13:49soft spot. It was a vibe. It's a vibe
01:13:51thing. Yeah.
01:13:53But anyway, that's all I can say.
01:13:55The vibes were impeccable.
01:13:57Something to be said for vibes.
01:13:59I like that too. Anyway, as we said,
01:14:01the Celtics defeat the Nuggets
01:14:03107-103 in their
01:14:05first preseason game. There's a second one coming
01:14:07up on Sunday. That one's at
01:14:0910 a.m. We will be
01:14:11back. I'm not sure in what form,
01:14:13but certainly Bobby and I coming in here
01:14:15and it's a great appetizer heading into the one o'clock
01:14:17games for those NFL
01:14:19fans out there. And of course,
01:14:21sadly, you may have to see me back
01:14:23on the air doing a Patriots postgame
01:14:25show talking about how Jacobi
01:14:27looked. The worst game of all time.
01:14:31The worst game of all time.
01:14:33Put us out of our misery, guys.
01:14:35Are they favorites in that game?
01:14:37They are.
01:14:39They're favored by one and a half
01:14:41points and the over-under, I think, is like seven.
01:14:45They're favored to win like a 5-3
01:14:47game.
01:14:49So, yeah. We'll see
01:14:51what happens there. But anyway, more basketball to come.
01:14:53If you want, though,
01:14:55not just Celtics basketball, WNBA
01:14:57basketball, follow Noah.
01:14:59If you don't already follow her on Twitter
01:15:01and wait for her
01:15:03written reaction to tonight's
01:15:05game between the Sun.
01:15:07Why am I drawing a blank, Noah? The Sun and
01:15:09the Minnesota Lynx.
01:15:11I'm on a mission to convert Celtics
01:15:13fans to care about the Connecticut Sun,
01:15:15so lock in. It's the playoffs. We're almost in the
01:15:17finals, so high stakes
01:15:19basketball.
01:15:21Noah, at what point
01:15:23is Boston getting a team?
01:15:25I hope the Sun go to Boston, but I don't
01:15:27think I'm supposed to say that sitting in the
01:15:29front. I think
01:15:31Boston needs a team eventually. It's just a question
01:15:33of... Who's going to buy the Celtics?
01:15:35That's a possibility.
01:15:37Yeah, that's a possibility.
01:15:39It's a joint deal.
01:15:41Whoever buys the Celtics
01:15:43brings in a team?
01:15:45Maybe. I mean, I don't know that the Sun can
01:15:47coexist in Connecticut and in Boston.
01:15:49That feels a little saturated to me.
01:15:51Maybe they buy the Connecticut
01:15:53Sun from the Mohegan Tribe. I'm speculating
01:15:55here. These are not sources.
01:15:57Do you think a Boston team would kill
01:15:59the Sun because they would lose
01:16:01so much of the Massachusetts connection?
01:16:03That's what they said about the Casinos.
01:16:05Yeah, I mean, if NBC Boston
01:16:07streamed both, it would be tough.
01:16:09There's already, I think, a smaller
01:16:11fan base here than most other teams,
01:16:13but I'm lowering my voice because
01:16:15I miss them.
01:16:17Well, you're right because you've got a team in New York as well,
01:16:19and where are you pulling from in Connecticut if you can't do
01:16:21that? I think
01:16:23the model there is
01:16:25the type of crowds
01:16:27you get at UConn
01:16:29games, which was always consistently extremely
01:16:31strong there, and it wasn't
01:16:33just students. There was a lot
01:16:35from the community that were going to those games as well.
01:16:37Boston seems poised
01:16:39to support a team, though, and when you think
01:16:41about what the Red Sox have lost in the
01:16:43summer, maybe there's
01:16:45some opportunity
01:16:47there to pull in support.
01:16:49Between whether
01:16:51it's WNBA or
01:16:53if MLS
01:16:55ever got higher than being a
01:16:57fourth-rate league. And then on
01:16:59Boston, which is the killer. I know,
01:17:01but there's such an opportunity there
01:17:03because of not just the Red Sox
01:17:05but baseball. I've always thought baseball
01:17:07success so much relies on it running
01:17:09unopposed, but with the WNBA's
01:17:11rise in popularity and obviously
01:17:13the huge numbers
01:17:15that you get for younger generation
01:17:17flocking to international
01:17:19soccer, there's such an opportunity there
01:17:21to capture eyeballs. But yeah,
01:17:23I think a WNBA team in Boston would do
01:17:25really well. Anyway,
01:17:27another conversation for another time. Noah might have
01:17:29just gotten herself banned from
01:17:31Mohegan Sun Arena for the night for her comments.
01:17:33We'll see. But anyway, you can follow that
01:17:35WNBA action. If you follow Noah,
01:17:37she'll have written work going up
01:17:39covering the game for SB Nation.
01:17:41Of course, Bobby Manning will be talking and
01:17:43writing about the Celtics here on
01:17:45CLNS on our YouTube channel and
01:17:47over on CLNS Media, so check that out.
01:17:49Please tune back in on
01:17:51Sunday for a double dip with the Celtics postgame
01:17:53show and then a
01:17:55crap ton of Patriots
01:17:57depressing Patriots. Who knows? They might
01:17:59win. It's depressing even if they win. That's the thing.
01:18:01When they win 6-3?
01:18:03Whatever it is.
01:18:05You're not going to feel better about the team on Sunday.
01:18:07I'll tell you that. But
01:18:09it is what it is. So we'll see you all.
01:18:11Thank you again for tuning in.
01:18:13We do welcome everybody back here.
01:18:15Louise, Judah, Derek, all the regulars,
01:18:17Dodd, I saw you jumping in
01:18:19late. That's great. Manila.
01:18:21Fun to have the fam back.
01:18:23So we do appreciate you guys. Blorp,
01:18:25late, late, but you're here.
01:18:27Thanks, buddy.
01:18:29And we will see you on...
01:18:31Wait, I need the outro, don't I?
01:18:35There it is. Garden Report
01:18:37outro. We'll see you on Sunday. Take care, everyone.
01:18:39Wait, Ahmed's got an outro for us, I think.
01:18:41No, he doesn't.
01:18:43You said he was going to work on an outro.
01:18:45He had a phenomenal game.
01:18:47Phenomenal game.
01:18:49Forfeit's out.
01:18:51I think it's an option.
01:18:55That did not sound like a chair.
01:18:57It was a freaking chair.
01:18:59It does sound like a chair.

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