38% of #IIT students are yet to find a job via campus placement this year.
Watch Nupur Talwar Suri in conversation with TeamLease Degree Apprenticeship's AR Ramesh and IIT Kanpur alumnus Dheeraj Singh.
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Watch Nupur Talwar Suri in conversation with TeamLease Degree Apprenticeship's AR Ramesh and IIT Kanpur alumnus Dheeraj Singh.
_______________________________________________________
For more videos subscribe to our channel: https://www.youtube.com/@NDTVProfitIndia
Visit NDTV Profit for more news: https://www.ndtvprofit.com/
Don't enter the stock market unaware. Read all Research Reports here: https://www.ndtvprofit.com/research-reports
Follow NDTV Profit here
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NDTVProfitIndia , https://twitter.com/NDTVProfit
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ndtvprofit
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TVTranscript
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02:19 >> Well, good evening and welcome.
02:20 I'm Nupur Talwar Suri and you're watching a special show on NDTV Profit.
02:24 Well, you must have noticed posts and
02:26 reports of an apparent placement crisis at the country's prestigious IITs.
02:31 Over the span of next half an hour, we decode these numbers.
02:34 We also have a detailed discussion on a report that has been compiled by Dheeraj
02:38 Singh, who will be joining us on the show, who is an IIT Kanpur alumnus,
02:42 on the basis of RTIs that he filed and the responses that he's received from 23 IITs.
02:49 First up, we are joined by NDTV India's Pooja Bhardwaj to break down the numbers
02:53 for us.
02:54 Good evening, Pooja.
02:55 Now, Pooja, according to this report that has been compiled by Dheeraj,
03:01 it appears that from 23 IITs, about 8,000 students or so are still to be placed.
03:07 Give us a broad sense of what these numbers indicate.
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08:12 >> Absolutely, Pooja.
08:13 And in fact, Pooja did reach out to IIT Bombay,
08:15 which has said that the placement cycle is still not complete.
08:18 But Pooja, thank you for the moment for joining us.
08:20 Now, also joining us are A.R. Ramesh of Team Lease,
08:24 Degree Apprenticeship Program, and Dheeraj Singh,
08:27 an alumnus of IIT Kanpur.
08:29 In fact, he's the one who had filed these RTIs.
08:32 Good evening, gentlemen.
08:33 Thank you very much for joining us.
08:34 Dheeraj, if I could come to you first.
08:36 Now, to begin with, what is it that really prompted you to file these RTIs?
08:42 What was your own experience of the students that you were mentoring
08:46 in terms of placements?
08:48 What is it that was the trigger, really?
08:51 >> Hello, Nupur.
08:53 So I think this is a very good question, and it is very close to my heart.
08:59 Last year, we were -- you know, there have been a lot of suicide news
09:05 which struck IITs.
09:07 Just to give you a number, 33 suicides have taken place in IITs since 2022.
09:14 So almost one a month.
09:17 This is the number we are tracking.
09:19 And for us, actually, you know, this was something very painful,
09:23 and we wanted to reach out to students.
09:25 So we started mentoring and interacting with the students last year,
09:29 and, you know, 50 of us alumnus got together and started giving
09:33 free mentorship to students.
09:35 We have about 400 students who we mentor free of cost across 50 IITs.
09:40 Now, first cohort, we just had 50 students, and we realized one
09:44 of the students, his name is Vikas Meena, he texted me in WhatsApp
09:49 saying that, you know, he is not placed, and he is depressed and anxious,
09:53 and he is completely hopeless.
09:56 He doesn't know what to do.
09:58 And lo and behold, come 10th of January, a few months down the line,
10:03 he died by suicide in his hostel room at IIT Kanpur.
10:07 So as I was telling, there is almost a month, one-month suicide rate
10:12 happening.
10:13 This was particularly very disturbing for us, and we saw this was the
10:17 first instance which came out and brought, you know, gave an insight
10:21 on the placement linkage.
10:23 Then we did an emotional health survey for our mentored students who we
10:27 mentored and found 40% of those students cited that they need some kind
10:31 of mental health support, and they were undergoing placement anxiety,
10:35 depression, and so forth.
10:37 So this was troubling for us, and we wanted to know why this is happening.
10:41 Is there some kind of a link between what's happening in the placement
10:44 scene and what's the mental psyche of the students?
10:47 That prompted us to file 23 RTIs in IITs, and the facts which came back
10:53 through RTIs almost confirmed a suspicion that the placement is a major
10:59 worry apart from the academic stress because of which students are getting,
11:03 you know, taking some extreme measures.
11:06 So that is where we started the whole exercise.
11:09 Right.
11:10 Let's also bring in A.R. Ramesh into this.
11:13 What are your initial thoughts on it?
11:16 Does it actually surprise you that the number of students who are not
11:20 placed is at about 38%?
11:22 Of course, you know, the cycle is still not complete, so there could be
11:25 more placements made.
11:27 What do you -- are you surprised at all to begin with by the number,
11:31 and what do you make of it?
11:32 What's the reason?
11:34 Thank you, Anupur.
11:36 I think -- I don't think I'm really surprised because what's happening
11:39 across the world, the macroeconomic factors are really playing out.
11:43 The war out there and everything that's happening around the world is
11:47 really not in the favor of placements today.
11:51 Now, if you also look at the overhiring that happened just after COVID,
11:56 the pandemic, I think companies were indiscriminate in hiring a lot
12:00 of talent, and now I think they are rationalizing that,
12:04 and that's another reason that's adding to this slowdown in hiring.
12:10 And, of course, the technology changes, which are happening so rapidly
12:14 today, every three months a new technology is introduced,
12:19 the old one gets obsolete.
12:21 And the fact that in India, even if you are a graduate,
12:24 even from the topmost of the colleges, you're almost trained for six
12:28 months to one year, even before you get job ready.
12:32 So that's another reason.
12:34 In India, I think we get good qualifications, but not real skills.
12:39 So these are the problems, some of the problems,
12:41 which are my initial thoughts on why this is happening.
12:44 Right, Dheeraj, coming back to you.
12:46 Dheeraj, now, what the numbers seem to suggest is that for 2024,
12:51 the number is nearly double of those who were not placed in 2023.
12:56 What's the reason for that, and do you agree with A.R. Ramesh
13:01 when he says that there seems to be a gap in the skill set that is
13:05 demanded by these companies and what IITs are actually giving out?
13:11 Well, I tend to partly agree and, in fact, want to add on to what
13:16 Mr. Ramesh has just said.
13:19 To give you a perspective of just what's the lay of the land,
13:23 there are about 20 million engineers, software engineers in the world,
13:29 5 million in India, 5 million in China, 5 million in the U.S.
13:33 And there is a big, giant tech layoff which took place,
13:38 took away about half a million of engineers since 2022.
13:43 And why is this happening?
13:45 This is happening simply because, not just because of the quality,
13:48 and these are the people who were employed in the big tech,
13:52 means they already were quite qualified, exceptional talent.
13:55 But what was happening was the pace of automation was so fast,
13:59 thanks to the artificial intelligence, that people now do not require
14:05 the low-end jobs.
14:07 They are getting killed, simply getting killed.
14:09 You talk about Elon Musk, you talk about Warren Buffett,
14:13 you talk about any big name in the industry, they are saying that
14:18 AI has the capability to automate the entire software engineering
14:23 services sector.
14:25 Now, what is this?
14:26 This sector was going to the campus and hiring about 30% of the campus,
14:32 the intake.
14:35 So when TCS, for example, in 2022, it hired about 6 lakh freshers.
14:43 This year, their number was 50,000.
14:46 So clearly, when this software is getting impacted,
14:51 the placement is getting impacted.
14:54 And the numbers are actually speaking that since 2022,
14:58 this has really hit a curve which is very fast, and it's kind of genius
15:05 come out of the bottle, so to say.
15:08 Right.
15:09 Mr. Ramesh, now, do you also think that this rounds of layoffs that we
15:13 are seeing from big firms like Google, Microsoft, Amazon,
15:17 at least for the past two years, are having a trickle-down effect,
15:20 perhaps, because at the end of the day, people who are laid off provide
15:24 for recruiters, people who are trained in that workforce, instead,
15:30 you know, for a company to invest in a fresher, will that perhaps make
15:35 more sense for them to hire those?
15:37 So do you think this is also partly because of that?
15:40 Yeah, see, because if you look at it, it's a demand-supply equation.
15:43 So the supply is in abundance.
15:45 And at that time, you tend to take people who are more experienced
15:49 and who are ready for the job.
15:51 And today, people are obviously even looking at compromising
15:55 on their salaries.
15:57 So with that, I think it is having an effect at the entry-level hiring.
16:03 Right.
16:04 Dheeraj, you know, any particular sectors that are not hiring,
16:06 or do you see a similar sort of trend across industries?
16:12 It's more broad-based, would you say?
16:15 Well, if I have your permission, Nupur, I just want to just touch upon
16:19 to Mr. Ramesh's point on the salary, because he's brought in some
16:23 interesting insight that what's happening.
16:26 So the placement or the lack of jobs or the unemployment,
16:30 is it impacting the salary levels also?
16:32 And let's just have a quick look at it.
16:35 Almost less than 1% of IITians who graduate and sit for placements
16:40 get crore-plus packages.
16:42 But that 1% of the students tend to – the hype around that
16:48 crore-plus package actually kind of impacts the whole society,
16:53 so to say, economy, so to say, and everybody thinks that every IITian
16:56 who graduates gets a crore-plus salary.
17:00 Whereas the reality is the median salary has gone down by 15% to 20%.
17:05 It used to be in older IITs about 18 to 20 lakhs a year,
17:11 and now it's kind of trending at about 15 to 16 lakhs per year.
17:16 And in the new IITs, the 14 new IITs, the number is even lesser
17:21 at 12 to 14 lakhs.
17:23 So this is certainly pushing a lot of pressure on the salaries,
17:27 and one can also say that there is significant underemployment
17:32 of the skilled workforce, or whatever level the skill.
17:35 Simply to understand earlier, people were getting much higher salary,
17:40 now they're getting 20% less for the same amount of skill,
17:43 same amount of talent.
17:44 So this is something which is really I wanted to bring that
17:47 and add to Mr. Ramesh's comment.
17:50 And coming back to your point on the other sector,
17:53 so yes, certainly, because of the macro factors, the higher interest rate
17:58 in the economy, particularly in the U.S., higher inflation,
18:03 the companies actually have focused and changed gears
18:06 from growth to profitability.
18:08 And once they look at profitability, they certainly are reducing
18:12 the headcounts, which is the first expense they want to sort of optimize on,
18:17 which is leading to significant freezing of the hiring taking place
18:22 in the business sectors other than the IITs by and large.
18:26 So there is substantially lower demand in the market.
18:30 All right. Dheeraj Singh and Mr. Ramesh, both of you do stay with us.
18:35 We're going to slip into a very short break.
18:37 When we come back, we'll shed some more light on the reason for this slump
18:42 and also the way forward really for IITs as well as perhaps businesses
18:48 which need to have a more concrete plan in place to hire youngsters.
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22:03 Welcome back and we are joined by AR Ramesh of Team Lease
22:10 as well as Dheerath Singh who is an IIT Kanpur alumnus
22:14 and he is the man who actually filed these 23 RTIs
22:20 asking for true data to reflect the placement numbers.
22:23 Mr. Ramesh, if I could come to you now.
22:26 You mentioned that there is a gap in the skills and the demand from the industry.
22:31 Now, I want to understand is this limited to IITs that there is a slowdown in placements
22:35 or are other colleges facing a similar sort of a slowdown?
22:40 Also, particularly focusing on cross-border education institutions.
22:44 Is there an uptick in those?
22:47 See, I'll answer your question but even before that I also wanted to give you some statistics.
22:53 So, the International Labour Organization says that 85 million jobs will become obsolete
23:01 because of artificial intelligence.
23:03 At the same time, it's also a fact that 97 million new jobs will be created
23:09 is what the ILO says because of artificial intelligence.
23:13 And that means that you really have to get upskilled or reskilled
23:17 because you are no more relevant if you hold the old skills.
23:20 So, from that perspective, that's one data point.
23:24 The other thing is GDP of India is growing tremendously.
23:27 Even today, I think there's a revision of the GDP to 6.7%.
23:32 So, I think the demand is there but at the same time,
23:37 are the same skills relevant?
23:40 Is it enough if we continue doing the same old thing is the point I'm trying to bring up.
23:46 One more data point which I just want to substantiate is the fact that
23:51 today World Economic Forum says in India, one out of ten graduates are only employable.
23:58 Only one out of five engineers really are employable
24:02 and only one out of four management graduates are really employable.
24:08 So, there is a clear gap between supply and demand and that is driven by skills
24:14 because I think traditionally India has been concentrating on the qualification.
24:20 That is the reason why even if a student comes out of campus,
24:23 it takes almost one year to become job ready.
24:26 So, from that perspective, there is a difference between the skill that is required
24:33 versus what a student gains from just theoretical knowledge.
24:38 Now, to your question, I would surely submit that we see this trend not just with IITs across
24:45 and like Dheeraj said, I think there is a huge slowdown in IT.
24:50 And I wouldn't say that's a despair across all industries.
24:55 The reason I say that is if you look at e-commerce and startups or telecom
25:00 or engineering and infrastructure, there is a huge uptick in the hiring for freshers.
25:06 We see that there's a lot of demand for new-age skills,
25:10 be it drones, be it semiconductors or be it on EVs, electric vehicles.
25:17 So, there is a lot of demand but the skills that are required are completely different
25:22 than what was traditionally being looked at.
25:24 So, there is a change and I don't see this as unique only to the IITs.
25:29 And to Dheeraj's point, we're even seeing the freshers being offered less than 10 lakhs in IITs.
25:37 So, we have got in the last couple of months, there are data points where we are seeing
25:43 that hardly six and a half lakhs was offered to some of the IITians, not the older ones, but the newer ones.
25:51 So, that's where the trend is going. So, I think skills are extremely, extremely important to build.
25:56 And if you do not have the right skills, you will not be able to get placed.
26:00 A very important point you are making over there.
26:03 Dheeraj, if we could have your final thoughts on it.
26:06 What's the way forward? Now, as Mr. Ramesh pointed out, the GDP is growing
26:11 but it's not really translating to real jobs.
26:14 Placements numbers are slowing down. What do you think is the way forward?
26:18 I think the skill point is certainly the number one point.
26:24 If we have to realize the so-called demographic dividend,
26:29 there is no question that we have to optimize on the skills part of it.
26:34 What about the demand part? I think my question is around the demand part
26:38 because even if I were to ignore one on five of engineers and one on ten of graduates who are employable,
26:45 let's take IITs, let's take a simpler system, let's take 30,000 graduates from IITs every year.
26:54 And we're just talking about 2% of the total engineering graduates who will graduate in a year.
27:02 If we are able to solve or not able to solve that problem,
27:06 it's kind of a bellwether for the rest of the engineering segment and also for the whole entire country.
27:13 So my thing is, my submission here is that we have to strongly look at the demand side
27:20 because skill and the number of skilled workforce is certainly not going to slow down in consumption
27:26 or in line with the demand side. And we have to somehow kickstart the demand.
27:31 There is a huge need for setting up the employment data systems
27:37 which the country that has the second largest youth labor workforce.
27:42 We do not have an employment data systems unlike in US or any other advanced countries.
27:47 The RBI, for example, before its monetary policy should look at, should be able to look at,
27:53 what are my employment indicators as the Fed in US looks at and decides what's going to be the interest rate?
28:01 Because that's a huge input for the industry to kickstart the investments and start the growth cycle.
28:08 But that's missing. - Absolutely. Absolutely. As you both pointing out,
28:12 there is not just a huge demand in gap, I beg your pardon, in the demand and the supply,
28:18 but also we need to perhaps relook at the fact, the big question,
28:23 are we producing too many engineers for them all to find jobs?
28:27 Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us on the broadcast.
28:30 Now, it's a wrap on the special show. But before we go, earlier today,
28:35 Prime Minister Narendra Modi spoke to the news agency IANS.
28:39 He talked about how important UPI is in the fight against COVID.
28:43 We leave you with that comment from the PM.
28:47 If UPI wasn't there today, then someone tell me, how would we fight COVID?
28:54 Even the most prosperous countries in the world couldn't give their people money despite having it.
28:59 We can give it easily. Today, we can send money to 11 crore farmers in 30 seconds.
29:07 Now, UPI is so user-friendly, because this talent is in our country's youth.
29:14 They make such products and give it to us, that any common man can use it.
29:20 Today, I saw so many people who experience this in their social media,
29:24 that we, six friends, decided that we won't keep a single penny in our pocket for six months.
29:29 Now, let's see what happens.
29:31 Six months, without money, we did our work and business all over the world.
29:36 We didn't have any problem. So, it's meeting all the criteria.
29:40 So, UPI has played a big role in the world of FinTech.
29:49 And because of this, many countries connected to India are ready to join UPI.
29:56 Because this is the era of FinTech. India is leading in FinTech.
30:01 And because of this, when I was discussing this issue, the great scholars of the country, who were sitting in the parliament,
30:10 were making fun of India.
30:13 They didn't have any idea about the potential of India and the capability of technology.
30:19 (explosion)