In this video, Dr. Oz asks Jordan Peterson about the importance of financial health when it comes to physical and mental health. Jordan Peterson explains that money helps stave off the worst of uncertainties. People who can get somewhere faster and better tend to make more money. If you’re having a hard time making ends meet, one thing you should ask yourself is what are the things that are getting in your way? Jordan Peterson says if you really meditate on that, you will get an answer.
Also, Dr. Oz presents the question: Does how you handle your money directly correlate to your self-worth? Jordan Peterson agrees that in some ways money is a maker of status, and we are very sensitive to status distinctions. The higher you are on the hierarchy, the more protected you are and the less you will feel stressed and afraid. Thus, people see money as a marker of status and their conception of their own status modulates their sensitivity to negative emotion. They don’t want to be anxious and emotional. It’s not money that is the root of evil, it’s the love of money. It’s when money is put in the highest place.
Later, Jordan Peterson provides advice on what to do if your partner can’t control their finances. In general, he thinks before having that discussion, it is good to have a talk about how both of you should think about money. How valuable is this? How do we value this in relation to other things you think are important? Jordan Peterson says it’s good to also ask your partner what they want. It is important to know your partner’s conditions of satisfaction before engaging in the conversation.
Also, Dr. Oz presents the question: Does how you handle your money directly correlate to your self-worth? Jordan Peterson agrees that in some ways money is a maker of status, and we are very sensitive to status distinctions. The higher you are on the hierarchy, the more protected you are and the less you will feel stressed and afraid. Thus, people see money as a marker of status and their conception of their own status modulates their sensitivity to negative emotion. They don’t want to be anxious and emotional. It’s not money that is the root of evil, it’s the love of money. It’s when money is put in the highest place.
Later, Jordan Peterson provides advice on what to do if your partner can’t control their finances. In general, he thinks before having that discussion, it is good to have a talk about how both of you should think about money. How valuable is this? How do we value this in relation to other things you think are important? Jordan Peterson says it’s good to also ask your partner what they want. It is important to know your partner’s conditions of satisfaction before engaging in the conversation.
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LearningTranscript
00:00 - Let's talk about money.
00:01 How important is financial health to your overall health?
00:06 What is it a reflection of if you can't make ends meet?
00:10 What does it mean about your physical, mental challenges?
00:13 - Well, we're having huge arguments about that
00:18 in our culture, aren't we?
00:19 The research evidence seems to suggest that,
00:25 although there's some debate about this,
00:26 that once you have enough money
00:28 so that bill collectors aren't chasing you around,
00:31 then having more money doesn't help that much.
00:33 So money helps stave off the worst
00:37 of uncertainties at minimum.
00:40 What does it indicate if you're struggling?
00:42 Well, that's really an individual question.
00:45 And it's harsh sometimes.
00:46 I mean, one thing that happens to be the case
00:48 is that people who have higher levels of fluid intelligence,
00:51 which has a strong biological component,
00:53 tend to make more money.
00:56 Why? - Fluid intelligence meaning?
00:57 - Well, it's really the capacity to conceptualize
01:01 and solve problems abstractly.
01:03 And it's partly associated with verbal fluency,
01:08 because we tend to think in words,
01:10 but there's more to it than that.
01:12 And so all things considered,
01:13 people who can get somewhere faster and better
01:16 make more money for obvious reasons.
01:18 And that's rough.
01:19 That's very rough.
01:20 It's built into the fabric of our biology.
01:24 So if you're having a hard time making ends meet,
01:29 I mean, I think the first thing to ask yourself
01:32 is what stupid things are you doing
01:34 that are definitely getting in your way?
01:36 And you can actually ask yourself that.
01:38 And it's like a prayer in some sense.
01:40 Apparently, I'm doing some stupid things
01:46 because my life is not going very well.
01:48 Maybe I could realize a couple of them
01:52 in a manner that's not so harsh it crushes me.
01:55 And if you really meditate on that, you will get an answer.
01:58 And it won't be an answer you like,
02:01 but maybe it'll be an answer you can stand.
02:03 It's like, well, you drink too much.
02:05 Well, you already know that
02:08 because you regret what you do while you're drinking
02:10 and other people have told you.
02:11 It's like, well, you're not doing very well in life.
02:14 Stop drinking.
02:16 That's hard.
02:18 And so you clear out the obstacles that are in your path
02:22 that you can see as to the best of your ability.
02:25 See, 'cause what happens is people suffer
02:27 and then they judge existence and they say,
02:29 well, look, it's arbitrary and unfair
02:30 and everything should burn.
02:32 But, and you know, yeah, it's an understandable response,
02:37 but maybe it's unbearable
02:39 because you're doing too many stupid things.
02:41 Hopefully that's the case
02:44 because then you could make it better.
02:47 Right?
02:47 Maybe there's some hope, maybe not.
02:49 Maybe everything is pointless
02:51 and misery is the inescapable final reality.
02:56 But I wouldn't jump to that conclusion
02:58 before you try to stop doing all the things
03:01 you are doing that are stupid,
03:02 that you know that are stupid,
03:03 that you could stop doing.
03:06 Right?
03:07 - I find that people's self-worth drops
03:10 when they don't win the game of money.
03:13 So how does your ability to manage money,
03:18 even dealing with the fear many people have of money
03:20 and the bill collector coming after the money,
03:22 correlate with their self-worth?
03:24 - Well, people have, well, first of all,
03:26 money is a marker in some ways of status.
03:30 And we are very sensitive to status distinctions
03:34 and that's partly because the serotonin system,
03:38 which is a master neurochemical control system,
03:41 it dampens down negative emotion.
03:45 Now, the higher you are in a hierarchy, a social hierarchy,
03:49 the more the serotonin system
03:51 dampens down negative emotion.
03:53 - Reinforces.
03:54 - Yeah, well, it's also because the higher you are
03:57 in a hierarchy, in principle, the more protected you are
04:00 and the less reason there is to be stressed and afraid.
04:03 And so people see money as a marker of status
04:07 and their conception of their own status
04:10 modulates their sensitivity to negative emotion.
04:14 And when people say they wanna be happy,
04:16 they really don't mean that.
04:17 They mean they don't wanna be anxious and miserable
04:20 because negative emotion is so powerful.
04:23 And so anything that indicates status
04:25 that affects negative emotion is a primary concern.
04:28 Now, you don't wanna overvalue money
04:31 because it's not the only marker
04:33 and even not the only appropriate marker
04:35 of genuine status, right?
04:37 So you wanna get your status conceptions straight,
04:40 if you can.
04:41 You don't wanna undervalue it either because,
04:44 because it's the unit of exchange
04:47 for people's attention and labor.
04:50 It's crucially important.
04:51 And so, you know, it's not money
04:54 that's the root of all evil.
04:55 It's the love of money.
04:56 It's when money is put in the highest place, right?
05:00 It's not money itself.
05:01 - So within a couple,
05:05 when you don't like the way your partner's managing money
05:08 or making money, which is a major cause of discontent,
05:12 probably the number one reason couples have serious problems
05:15 that they shouldn't be fighting over,
05:16 but they do 'cause they can't manage
05:18 the love of money differences.
05:20 What are you supposed to do?
05:21 If you're the person having the problem,
05:22 you know, you examine yourself, you make the prayer,
05:24 which I think is a very wise tactic.
05:26 What do you do when the person you love dearly
05:28 is just unable to provide
05:31 in a way that you think is appropriate?
05:33 - I don't know how to answer that
05:36 because it depends so much
05:38 on the specifics of the situation.
05:40 I mean, in general, what you have to do
05:43 before you embark on a discussion like that
05:45 is maybe have a discussion with your partner
05:47 about how both of you should think about money
05:49 if you were thinking straight, right?
05:52 Well, how valuable is this?
05:53 How does it relate to other things
05:55 that we regard as important?
05:57 And then maybe you sketch out what you would consider.
06:00 If you're having a dispute with your partner,
06:03 one really useful thing to do is to ask them what they want.
06:06 It's like, okay, well, really, it's like, okay,
06:08 you have a problem.
06:10 What do you see as a solution?
06:12 Well, I don't know.
06:13 I don't know the answer to that.
06:14 It's like, no, no, no.
06:16 I need to know your conditions of satisfaction
06:18 before I can engage in this argument.
06:21 I need to know that there is something I could do,
06:23 no matter how difficult it might be,
06:25 that would actually make this damn problem go away
06:28 or I won't even engage in the conversation.
06:31 What do you want?
06:33 Well, and maybe the person has to talk to you a bunch
06:35 to figure out what they want
06:36 and the conversation can start there.
06:39 So you have to dig into these things.
06:40 And people fight about money,
06:42 but the fight's often about 50 other things.
06:45 One of the rules Tammy and I had about fighting
06:48 was you didn't get to bring up the past.
06:51 'Cause you know what happens.
06:52 You start a fight and it's like,
06:54 well, you did this like three months ago and six months ago,
06:57 and then you did this two years ago and five years,
06:59 and soon it's an argument about the entire relationship,
07:01 and you can't even settle the simple thing
07:03 that's on the table.
07:04 The other, we had another rule, which was do not agree.
07:09 With anything you don't agree with.
07:11 Because I don't wanna have this discussion,
07:14 and you say you agree, but you really don't,
07:17 and then four months from now, we have the same argument,
07:20 turns out you didn't agree at all,
07:22 and it was, so if you agree and you actually agreed,
07:25 then you don't get to have the argument about it anymore.
07:28 Now, you know, obviously there was errors around that,
07:31 but that was helpful.
07:33 - A lot of--
07:34 - Then you don't bring things forward, you know,
07:36 and that's what collapses marriages.
07:38 It's the cumulative consequences of unresolved conflict.
07:42 It just, the chaos turns into a dragon
07:46 and eats both of you, and that's that.