In this video, Jordan Peterson explores the notion that money for many people is a fear-inducing problem. It seems that in the world today, fear is crippling us. Dr. Oz asks Jordan Peterson how can someone become brave enough to challenge the demons we fear most? Jordan Peterson explains that it has to be done incrementally. If you’re afraid of something, figure out a map that will allow you to differentiate it into smaller and smaller problems until the problem is small enough that you can address it.
Part of the challenge Dr. Oz finds is that people aren’t even thinking of changing because they’ve accepted the status quo. He thinks that once you decide to change, you’re probably 80 percent of the way there. Jordan Peterson agrees, and he even thinks there is a pre-condition to that. It’s the decision that you’re insufficient in your current form. This is always true and a terrible burden, and no wonder people want to avoid it. But Jordan Peterson explains that there is also hope in that. If things aren’t good enough, probably you could be better. And you might already know ways to change that. That to Jordan Peterson is a pathway.
Part of the challenge Dr. Oz finds is that people aren’t even thinking of changing because they’ve accepted the status quo. He thinks that once you decide to change, you’re probably 80 percent of the way there. Jordan Peterson agrees, and he even thinks there is a pre-condition to that. It’s the decision that you’re insufficient in your current form. This is always true and a terrible burden, and no wonder people want to avoid it. But Jordan Peterson explains that there is also hope in that. If things aren’t good enough, probably you could be better. And you might already know ways to change that. That to Jordan Peterson is a pathway.
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00:00 Money for many people is a fear-inducing problem.
00:05 And it seems in the world today,
00:10 fear is crippling us for a myriad of reasons.
00:13 Part of it is we don't have a structure
00:14 to try to cope with it.
00:16 How do we address the fact that there are landmines
00:19 all around us, but if those landmines keep us locked indoors
00:23 that's not life either.
00:25 How do you become brave enough to challenge the demons
00:30 that you fear most?
00:32 - You do it incrementally.
00:33 Like if you're afraid of something.
00:36 I had a client who was afraid of using a telephone.
00:40 He had really crippling social anxiety.
00:42 - A telephone?
00:43 - Yeah, he couldn't talk on the telephone.
00:45 He had crippling social anxiety.
00:47 And he was an outcast.
00:48 I mean, people had bullied him his whole life.
00:50 He had a low IQ, so he was intellectually impaired.
00:53 He had some sensory deficits.
00:55 He had a rough time, but he couldn't use the phone.
00:57 He was afraid of it.
00:59 Well, so what did we start doing?
01:01 Put your hand on the receiver
01:03 and just wait till you're bored of that, right?
01:07 'Cause that means you've calmed down.
01:08 Pick up the receiver.
01:10 Wait till you're bored of that.
01:12 Put it by your ear.
01:14 Wait till you're bored of that.
01:16 Step by step.
01:17 You know, so if you have a big problem,
01:19 you kind of have to figure out a map
01:21 that allows you to differentiate it
01:24 into smaller and smaller problems
01:26 until the problem is small enough
01:28 so that you could address it.
01:30 And you have a conversation with yourself about that.
01:33 Oh my God, I can't handle that.
01:34 It's like, okay, is there some tiny piece of that
01:37 that would help a little bit that you could handle?
01:40 And it might be something so trivial
01:41 that you're ashamed to admit to yourself
01:44 that you had to pick something so small
01:46 to have enough courage to face it.
01:48 But like, join the club.
01:49 You know, everybody has these things.
01:51 They're afraid of arbitrarily.
01:53 And what a good behavioral psychologist can do
01:56 is break that into tiny pieces.
01:58 It's a good mode of problem solving.
02:00 Break it into tiny pieces.
02:01 So for example, I'm trying to sort my office out
02:04 'cause things keep flooding into it.
02:07 - I noticed all the books are these.
02:09 - Yeah.
02:10 - These walkway outside the house.
02:12 - Yeah, so I'm going through my bookshelf
02:14 and we did a bunch of renovations
02:15 and people send me stuff all the time.
02:17 And my office tends to be like the landing place
02:19 of a lot of stuff constantly.
02:21 And it's daunting to me and has been
02:23 because part in part because of ill health.
02:26 It's like, can I clean up that office?
02:28 There's mail in there that hasn't been open
02:30 for like two years.
02:31 And no, but I could go through one bookshelf
02:36 and probably take out four books today and that's enough.
02:39 But if I do that every day, it will be clean.
02:42 - Part of the challenge I find
02:44 is that people aren't even thinking of changing.
02:47 They have accepted the status quo.
02:49 The self-preservation benefit
02:52 of not going outside the door,
02:54 metaphorically, into the world.
02:56 The natural need I think we should all have
02:59 to expand ourselves beyond the normal boundaries,
03:01 which is I think what we're called to do,
03:03 get stifled, suffocated,
03:05 so that we'd rather just stay inside this little space.
03:07 And we build these walls to protect ourselves,
03:09 not realizing you're actually building,
03:11 you're caging yourself in.
03:12 - Yeah, well, and the outside tends to come inside too.
03:15 There's a snake in every garden.
03:16 - Anyway, right.
03:17 - Which is the deeper biblical symbolism.
03:20 So once you've decided to change,
03:23 you're actually probably 80% of the way there.
03:25 The tactics you're describing are pedagogical.
03:27 - Well, there's even a precondition to that.
03:28 And that's the decision that you're insufficient
03:30 in your current form, which is of course always true
03:33 and a terrible burden and a terrible reality.
03:35 And no wonder people want to avoid it.
03:37 But there's also hope in that, right?
03:39 Because if things aren't good enough,
03:42 probably you could be better.
03:44 And so thank God for that,
03:46 that you could actually be better.
03:47 And not only that, you probably know some manner
03:50 in which you could be better that would work
03:52 if you would just do it.
03:53 So that's a pathway, man.
03:55 - As I look at so many--
03:57 - That's humility.
03:58 - Humility, but as I look at so many people today,
03:59 they actually, they almost like the anger.
04:04 - Oh yeah.
04:05 Well, anger is a positive emotion, actually.
04:07 It's a weird emotion.
04:08 - It is?
04:09 - Yes, yes, it's a mixture
04:09 of positive and negative emotion.
04:11 Positive emotion makes you move forward, right?
04:14 That's how it's tied to your body.
04:16 And anger is a forward movement,
04:18 and it suppresses fear, right?
04:20 And so would you rather be angry or afraid?
04:23 Well, angry is hard.
04:24 It's really stressful physiologically,
04:26 but it has a positive emotion.
04:28 That's the self-righteousness.
04:29 That kind of comes out in self-righteousness
04:30 and self-aggrandizement, you know?
04:32 But so, and so it's attractive for that reason
04:37 and because it suppresses fear.
04:40 You know, like if you chase a cat around with a broom,
04:42 which you shouldn't do, but you know,
04:44 this is just an example.
04:45 And it'll run away 'cause it's afraid,
04:47 but if you corner it and then it can't escape,
04:50 the cat will attack eventually.
04:53 Because fear isn't working, it can't run away apparently.
04:57 So then anger comes up, suppresses fear,
04:59 and the cat will attack.
05:00 Now, you know, the cat might get killed,
05:02 you know, in a natural circumstance,
05:03 but anger definitely suppresses fear biologically.
05:06 - So the fact that many people revel in their anger
05:11 is, it shouldn't surprise me or anybody.
05:12 - No, no.
05:14 - I mean, if you get stuck--
05:14 - It's very stressful, anger,
05:16 because anger makes you hyper-prepare, right?
05:19 Because you have to prepare for everything
05:22 when you're angry.
05:22 You're ready for combat.
05:24 It's extraordinarily demanding psychophysiologically
05:27 and that can really do in your health across time.
05:31 - My goodness.
05:32 Well, now this is all coming together for me a little bit
05:34 because we have a lot of people who are very angry
05:37 and I guess it's because it suppresses their fear
05:39 and it's a positive movement.
05:40 Then we have people who are in fear,
05:42 sort of stuck in that same axis.
05:43 Some people are realizing that they're inadequate
05:46 and their inadequacy is making the world inadequate.
05:48 But that doesn't, those parties
05:50 don't always talk to each other.
05:52 - No, well, the thing, one of the problems with anger
05:55 is that anger generally means you've identified the problem
05:59 in someone else and that's also comforting.
06:01 But the problem with that is that,
06:03 well, you know, what are you gonna do about it?
06:05 Are you gonna go to war?
06:06 Well, maybe, but you know, my sense,
06:09 and this is partly 'cause I'm a psychologist, I suppose,
06:11 is like, look to yourself, fix yourself up.
06:13 You got, that'll occupy you forever.
06:16 It's much better.
06:18 And whatever you see out there in some other person
06:20 that you think is terrible is also in here, that's for sure.
06:24 If you can quell that in here and really do that,
06:26 then you can understand what it is that you're hating
06:30 and you'd have a better time,
06:31 you'd be better able to address it anyways.
06:35 It's also in line with the idea of humility.
06:38 It's like, so, yeah, anger is dreadfully attractive,
06:42 but it's really hard on people.