This episode of India Today's Political Stock Exchange poll gauges public opinion on India's ceasefire with Pakistan.
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00:00Welcome viewers, you're watching India Today and our special edition of the Political Stock Exchange
00:09where over the course of one hour we will tell you on where India stands.
00:15How does India think, perceive and gauge on our current stand with our conflict with Pakistan?
00:21Ceasefire announced, does India agree should we have hit harder?
00:25What do we make of the foreign intervention?
00:27Well, seawater and India Today have together conducted this survey.
00:32We're going to get you the results over the course of the next one hour.
00:35Do you stay with me? First up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:43Prime Minister Modi visits Adampur base, reiterates India's new normal against terrorists,
00:47as not even a single Pakistan missile could breach India's air bases.
00:57Prime Minister Modi busts Pakistan fakery of hitting Adampur air base, S-400s and MiG-29 jets fully intact.
01:05In Prime Minister's Adampur base visit photos, biggest fact check to Pakistan lies.
01:11India sets the record straight on U.S. interventions as rattled Pakistan called, pleading for a ceasefire.
01:24Reiterates that IWT will remain in abeyance till Pakistan doesn't act on terror.
01:29Three Lashkar terrorists killed in Shopeya, Jammu and Kashmir.
01:37Lashkar commander Shahid killed in encounter, combing operations underway.
01:47India warns WTO.
01:49It may impose retaliatory tariffs on U.S. over steel-aluminium duty heights.
01:53India's proposed suspension of concessions in response to U.S. tariffs.
01:57Donald Trump in Saudi Arabia meets Crown Prince MBS Elon Musk joins in for VIP lunch.
02:08Trump hopes to secure a $1 trillion investment in U.S. industry.
02:13The
02:42Prime Minister at the Adampur Air Base, which Pakistan claimed to have attacked, busting
02:56Pakistani propaganda.
02:59The fog of war has lifted, ceasefire announced, but India has made it clear.
03:10This is a strategic pause, not peace.
03:20Any Pakistani misadventure will be met with decisive action.
03:24If you have to save Pakistan, then you will have to protect your terror infrastructure.
03:36Besides that, there is no way of peace.
03:44Every Indian stood shoulder to shoulder with our armed forces.
03:50Every Indian was resolute as our armed forces delivered retribution.
03:59Now with the ceasefire announced, what does India think about the abrupt ceasefire?
04:08Do Indian feel we have been successful in achieving our targets?
04:23What do Indian citizens make of American intervention?
04:32The latest edition of the Political Stock Exchange, a tell-all survey on what Indians are thinking,
04:44on what they are perceiving, and what is India's opinion.
04:55Because while we've given enough documentary evidence to suggest that India clearly had the upper hand, number one.
05:05Number two, that it was Pakistan, which went across diplomatically, country to country, asking for a ceasefire.
05:12All of that given out in detail by India, also on the targets that were successfully hit by India, before and after pictures of that.
05:21But there are plausible questions that many citizens in India had that maybe India should have gone all the way.
05:27Maybe India should have continued to hit harder.
05:30Maybe India should not have agreed to a ceasefire begged for by Pakistan.
05:34All those questions were asked viewers in this dipstick survey by Sea Water and India today to gauge what India thinks on where we stand in the current conflict with Pakistan.
05:46Because mind you, as our Prime Minister said very clearly, this is just a pause.
05:50This is not peace.
05:52Every act of terror will be considered an act of war.
05:56And terrorists and countries that support terrorism are the same.
06:00All of that.
06:01So where does India stand?
06:03What is India's opinion?
06:04What it thinks right now?
06:06All of those questions have been posed through a series of questions that we post with seawater in India today to the citizens of the country.
06:14Let me quickly cut across.
06:15We also have a panelist with us this evening.
06:17Joining me, Tuhin Sinha, National Spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party.
06:20Dr. Rajoy Kumar, National Spokesperson, Congress.
06:23We'll be joined shortly by Neerja Choudhury, Senior Journalist, Columnist, Rajat Sethi, Political Commentator.
06:28Ashutosh, author, Political Analyst.
06:31And also Yashwant Deshmukh from SeaVoter, who also conducted this survey, viewers.
06:37Before we get in to our first question and the respondents and the answers to that,
06:44I want to quickly get in a comment by our two political panelists.
06:48Tuhin Sinha, the Prime Minister today at the Adampur Air Base, a befitting reply to Pakistan, busting Park propaganda because Adampur was one base which Pakistan had, in multiple press conferences, stated they had hit and hit bad.
07:03All of that fakery now busted.
07:05But having said that, you know, I'm sure even you accept that there are certain questions that many Indians have on why did we agree?
07:11Even though Pakistan asked for the ceasefire, begged for it, why did we agree to that ceasefire so early?
07:17Should we have gone all the way this time?
07:19What do Indians make of what seems now clearly foreign intervention?
07:24Do you understand that these are plausible questions that many in the country have today?
07:27Well, good evening, Preeti. Good evening, everybody.
07:31And a very, you know, let me begin by congratulating everybody on the massive success of Operation Sindhu.
07:38You know, first of all, let me point this out that over here, technically, ceasefire is an incorrect term.
07:45That is not a term which has been used by us.
07:47Ceasefire happens when, you know, both sides are fighting.
07:49Here, we were being attacked and our forces were being retaliated.
07:53So even after the so-called ceasefire, the word which was grabbed by Pakistan, they have violated it on three occasions, Saturday evening, Sunday evening, Monday evening.
08:05And I'm just hoping, you know, as your show goes on, they don't do that.
08:08Our stand is very clear.
08:10It's a temporary halt.
08:12It's a temporary postponement of retaliatory action.
08:16The onus is on Pakistan to behave itself.
08:20If it behaves itself, if it gives up its obsession with terror, we will not retaliate.
08:25But if it again indulges in misadventure, this time, the response may not be proportionate.
08:31It may be way beyond that.
08:33Having said that, Prime Minister, just one second.
08:35Prime Minister Modi has already categorically laid out a new anti-terror doctrine.
08:42Again, any act of terror in the country will be treated as a war against the country and we will respond at a time and, you know, in a way we decide to.
08:52The nuclear bluff of Pakistan will not hold.
08:55These are very important points.
08:57And I don't think we are.
08:59All right.
08:59The Prime Minister yesterday in a detailed address to the nation touched on each and every point that Tuhin just spoke of.
09:05A lot of questions of citizens of this country would be allayed because, for once viewers, India stood shoulder, should we shoulder with our armed forces.
09:14And right now, like I said, if there are questions, each of them have been answered by the Indian government, the Indian armed forces.
09:21But, you know, questions are bound to be there.
09:23And I want to bring in Dr. Rajoy Kumar into this conversation.
09:26Dr. Kumar, before we go into how India responded to particular questions, especially relating to ceasefire, what many could deem as foreign intervention, the opposition has been quick to speak of both.
09:38Number one, on President Trump's speech right before the Prime Minister's speech yesterday, you've picked that up.
09:45You've also, the opposition, asking on why we did agree to the ceasefire, which was clearly initiated by Pakistan.
09:52So, like any good Indian, I have a lot of questions.
09:58First of all, Preeti, your sister channel, they must go to Rawalpindi and Karachi to show that you know how much we captured it.
10:05Because your sister channels and anchors have brought so much of disrepute that everybody in the world is now showing laughing on Indian media.
10:11Not you guys, but your sister channel.
10:13It's become a joke.
10:14I've seen reels and also first question.
10:15The second question is, tell me, what is Mr. Trump, in 2019, the government of India countered Trump when he said, I'm going to speak on Kashmir.
10:25Bill Clinton came from India when he visited India and went to Islamabad.
10:29He said Kashmir is out of the table.
10:32J.D. Vance, Trump, Rubio, official statements are not, they're saying victory.
10:38They can't even tweet.
10:40One sec, one sec, it's important.
10:41They can't even tweet against Trump officially.
10:44That is the shameful government we have.
10:48Foreign minister missing.
10:50No, you need to listen.
10:51Two minutes.
10:51Just give me one minute.
10:53We are ashamed because they can't even tweet, madam.
10:56Modi can't tweet.
10:57Amir Shah can't tweet.
10:58Rajdaad Singh.
10:59No, tweet to Trump and tell him not to deal with Kashmir.
11:02But no tweet.
11:03Unofficial channel.
11:05Sutro ke Anusat.
11:06Yeah, dumb.
11:07I tweet that Modi don't interfere.
11:09Trump don't interfere in Kashmir.
11:10And Trump says it so shamelessly that we brought trade.
11:15I will not do trade with you.
11:17If there is blood, blood flows, there will be no water flow.
11:20But as long as we are talking about the people in particular, when trade will happen, then it is okay.
11:25How people want to know this stuff.
11:27Why aren't you tweeting against Mr. Trump's intervention in Kashmir?
11:30And which foreign country is with you?
11:33One friend to him.
11:34No, tell me to him.
11:35We'll come back to it, sir.
11:36You have a full one hour to ask all these questions.
11:38Full one hour.
11:39Tell me one country is...
11:39But Dr. Kumar, I just...
11:41Because you raised a question on our sister channel.
11:43And I just want to say, you know, give me just 10 seconds and we're going to deep dive into the questions.
11:47Bring Rashwant as well into this conversation.
11:48You know, sometimes even though this was a conflict, there is a fog of war.
11:52The fog of war has lifted.
11:54But during the time, these were unprecedented times, you know, Dr. Kumar, and I'm sure you understand that.
11:59There is so much news that is floating about that sometimes even the best in the business can make a mistake.
12:05It was a mistake that our sister channel corrected on air apologizing because we understand the kind of faith that we have of the people of this country and the trust.
12:16And therefore, we came out with an open apology on the two mistakes that we had made.
12:21And I'm sure, you know, you would appreciate that because no other network or channel has done so.
12:26So I just want to make that point and I want to keep it right there.
12:29But I want to just quickly, before we get into our first question and what the respondents had to say, I want to bring in Yashwant Deshmukh from SeaVoter, you know, that conducted this survey.
12:38Yashwant, a quick dipstick on what the mood of the country is today post the ceasefire.
12:44Will you take us through on what you expected, what you really, you know, got to take us through the methodology of it all?
12:53Well, you know, it's part of our daily tracker that we do across India on a daily basis.
12:58So we have added quite a significant number of questions to check during the last few days what has been impact of this conflict.
13:07And we have demarcated into two different, you know, timelines, basically, before the announcement of ceasefire and after the announcements of ceasefire and tried to see if there is any significant change.
13:18And we also added a few more questions yesterday to check the impact of that.
13:22While you will tell all the details, I would like our audience and viewer to just keep in mind one very significant deviation that I have observed in this data.
13:33In the PSE, Priti, you remember every time we give the data, we always try to slice it from the geography or political support.
13:41And more often than not, we have found that the opinion of the support systems are on the two extremes, North Pole and South Pole, you know, a position in the BJP supporters.
13:54And to my surprise, this is one of those odd and odd one outs surveys and trackers where actually emotion and sentiment across the spectrum, across all the state, across all the demographics has more or less remained the same.
14:12So there is no political divide as such.
14:16Yes, there is a certain degree of disappointment with the ceasefire announcement.
14:21But again, you know, when you show the data, I will make it a point at that point when we discuss that.
14:29But just to keep in mind that the disappointment is also not coming from the opposition voter, that sentiment of disappointment, Priti, is also coming from the supporters of the ruling alliance.
14:42So just keep in mind that the larger public opinion across India is just the same, no matter what, there are no differences as such on political lines.
14:52Fair point.
14:53Because, Yashwant, I can only go back to the last survey that we did, and that was at the back of the terrorist strike in Pehel Gama.
14:59And even then, viewers, you know, these are rare surveys where you see people come together cutting across political ideology.
15:06Even then, we had noticed the same, and Yashwant is hinting exactly on that, where whether you're a traditional NDA voter or a traditional UPA voter, the thought line on national security is exactly the same.
15:17It's heartening to note as well.
15:18Because, you know, India might be divided in political ideology, but when it comes to India and national security, there is only one thought, and that is nation first.
15:27I just want to now quickly go across to Neerja Choudhury as well, senior journalist, and we'll go across to a question number one, because Neerja Choudhury, a lot of political messaging yesterday in that address to the nation by the prime minister.
15:38Because still now, even though Pakistan, we had seen, you know, the prime minister on a daily level addressing the nation, fair amount of propaganda coming in from there, but India at least had restrained itself from making any big political speeches.
15:53Even the address to the nation came for the first time ever since Operation Sindhu's conflict.
15:59Yes, I think the prime minister spoke for the first time after the operation.
16:04Actually, people had wondered, you know, the prime minister had been silent, others had spoken.
16:08But he was very, number one, measured.
16:12It was a point-by-point speech.
16:15Normally, he's very rhetorical.
16:17He's very long also, whether it's in parliament or outside.
16:21Yesterday was brief, and it was passionate.
16:25That's again, he's again passionate always, but yesterday is particularly passionate.
16:29And the central one point that he wanted to make is, terror is back on the center stage.
16:37It's not Kashmir.
16:39It's not a ceasefire.
16:41It is, for us, it's going to be terror and terror alone.
16:45That's the deciding factor, whether we talk, whether we do trade, whether it's water versus blood, all that.
16:54It was just terror.
16:55And the world better recognize it, everybody better recognize it.
16:58So, I think some way the criticism that had come in the preceding hours, that, you know, whether we should have gone in for ceasefire, whether Donald Trump should have announced that, why, who is he to announce it?
17:11Well, had Kashmir replaced terror as a central issue again, had India lost out on that ground?
17:19And whether India and Pakistan had got hyphenated?
17:22So, he tried to answer all of those questions.
17:25Right.
17:26All right.
17:27Well, what is, you know, where does the nation stand?
17:29What does India think?
17:30What is the mood post the ceasefire?
17:32Let's quickly now dip in to the first question that was posed to our respondents and what the reply to that were.
17:39And this was the first question which was posed.
17:43How much do you support the ceasefire between India and Pakistan?
17:47That was question number one.
17:49How much do you support the ceasefire between India and Pakistan?
17:54And the opinion on that completely support 43 percent.
17:5843 percent of India completely supported the ceasefire called between India and Pakistan.
18:05Support to some extent.
18:0622 percent of Indians supported it to some extent.
18:10Don't support at all.
18:1129 percent doesn't support at all.
18:14And 6 percent says they really cannot say anything.
18:17So, the opinion clearly divided here.
18:20And Tuhin said, I want to bring you in.
18:22Because even there was a sense by many Indians that maybe we should not have agreed to the ceasefire.
18:29Maybe this time around we should have gone all the way.
18:32And that reflects in the numbers.
18:34While 43 percent of Indians support the ceasefire.
18:38If you, you know, put together the 22 percent that support only to some extent and nearly 30 percent that doesn't support the ceasefire.
18:46Seem to suggest a bit of apprehension to Hinsina.
18:49Yes, go ahead.
18:50So, Preeti, unfortunately, wars are not fought based on, you know, public opinion.
18:55It's the military which takes the decision based on the evolving situation there and then.
19:03So, you know, yes, over a period of time, if you do the survey maybe one week later, the findings would be different.
19:09Because, you know, a lot of things need to be communicated.
19:11And that process of communication, when war is going on, communication is limited.
19:16Now that process of communication has begun.
19:18Now you can see the visuals of, you know, the destroyed architecture, the destroyed PAF air bases.
19:25Now the country would understand what Pakistan has suffered.
19:28You know, Pakistan has been dealt a very heavy punishment, something which they are going to regret.
19:35Okay.
19:35I just want to tell our viewers, you know, all these questions and I think, you know, yes, Shman will also concur.
19:41The ones that we are actually taking are the questions that were asked by seawater post the ceasefire announcement.
19:48So we are only culling out those questions.
19:50And those are the questions that we are giving out right now.
19:52But Dr. Rajwai Kumar, you know, in a sense, this is a question that the opposition has as well raised that why did we agree to this ceasefire?
20:00And seemingly, there is a section across the country that believes that maybe we should not have agreed to the ceasefire this time,
20:06even though it might have been initiated by Pakistan.
20:10No.
20:12I mean, I would tend to agree with Tween on one point is that as the facts are coming out, this completely support is going to disappear.
20:20For the simple reason being, look at what is India asking.
20:25First question, you know, do we have any friends, Preeti?
20:30Any country, European Union didn't say in favor of us.
20:33Americans, they hyphenated.
20:35Not even a single country stood with us.
20:38I can't even think of anybody who stood with us.
20:40There was some kid, Turkey, and they spoke with the Pakistanis.
20:43That's a different issue.
20:44Can you imagine how isolated we are?
20:47That nobody in the world has condemned the Pakistani.
20:51It's become a war between India and Pakistanis.
20:54No terrorism is no more in the discussion.
20:56We will say that.
20:57But so what hurts me is with Jai Shankar's jumping around so much and all that, there is no view.
21:02Second issue, their troops kill the messenger.
21:06Today, Mr. Misti, the foreign secretary, and today the minister in Madhya Pradesh is attacking the Sophia Qureshi.
21:13Now, what is the goal in life?
21:17They say, we will fight for our children, and nobody went to, any central minister went to meet the ladies.
21:27No, let me, you need to give me 30 seconds.
21:29Why the agitation is doing, there is no single friend we have.
21:34No country spoke for us.
21:35Trump is happily saying, hey, listen, guys, I want to trade.
21:38Trade, you know, I said, no more trade with you.
21:41He's insulting us.
21:42Kashmir is on the table.
21:43They're fighting for a thousand years.
21:44And my disappointment is, there is no official communication, not even a tweet, saying this is false.
21:52You've said that.
21:52I'm definitely saying that the ceasefire was no ceasefire.
21:54Dr. Rajoy Kumar, each other, okay, I can recall about 21 countries, if I'm not wrong, and you may correct me,
22:00after the Pahalgam terror strike, all of those countries were in solidarity with India.
22:04After the conflict in India's retributory action began, I'm going to come, allow me, sir.
22:09After the retributory action began, then Israel openly came and sided with India,
22:14because clearly Israel going through a similar situation.
22:16Then there were other countries, France did side with India, so it's not that no country sided with India.
22:22You know, can I comment, please?
22:25No, I'll just correct you on that.
22:28Once you started operation, you tell me which country said India's action is legitimate.
22:34Is it it?
22:34You tell me one country.
22:35Is it it?
22:36No, only Israel.
22:37That's it.
22:37You don't say 21.
22:38Only Israel.
22:39That's a different issue.
22:40Okay.
22:41I won't interrupt you.
22:43I promise to give you the adequate space.
22:44My only question is, it takes you time to think your research team must have done something to tell you which countries are supportive.
22:50My only issue to you is, and to all of you is, why can't you tell Trump to stop?
22:57Why can't you tell Trump to stop?
22:58We'll come back to the other questions.
22:59Dr. Rajoy Kumar, there are other questions.
23:01Tuhin, you have 10 seconds.
23:03I want to bring in our other guests.
23:04Ashutosh has been waiting.
23:05Some very important points have been made.
23:07You know, in fact, some very absurd allegations have been made by Dr. Rajoy, my friend.
23:11And so I need to respond, you know, number one, like you mentioned, like you mentioned, he seems to have very selectively followed the news.
23:19The entire European Union has backed us.
23:21You listed 21 countries which had backed us post-Pahal Gham.
23:25Now, he's repeatedly asking about, you know, our response to President Trump, our response to that particular tweet.
23:31You know, if you follow the speech of Prime Minister Modi, every particular point has been answered.
23:36A 20-minute speech is far more important than an ex-post.
23:40Why does the Congress Party not understand that?
23:43Okay, I'm going to come back.
23:44Okay, it's not a political debate.
23:45I want to open up the panel.
23:46Please allow me to do so.
23:47And I want to go into the other questions.
23:49You know, Tuhin Sina and Dr. Kumar, allow me to open up the panel.
23:52You know, I understand this is, you want to make it political.
23:55We've been quiet so far.
23:56And, you know, this was in the coming.
23:58But allow me to open up the panel.
23:59I want to bring in Ashutosh, Rajat Sethi and Yashvant and Neerja back into this conversation.
24:04But, you know, let's begin with you, Ashutosh.
24:07If you look at the figures, the respondents in the first question, there was a sense where
24:12many were concerned who thought that maybe we should not have agreed to the ceasefire.
24:16And the numbers clearly seem to project it.
24:18While 43% say that the government was right in agreeing to a ceasefire, you have a 29% who
24:25completely disagree, while a 22% somewhat agree.
24:28So it's pretty split even keel.
24:30See, Preeti, I think, see, the issue is not whether the ceasefire has been announced or
24:38not.
24:39Ceasefire is not an issue at all.
24:41Ceasefire is an strategic, strategic option.
24:45It's an strategic affair.
24:48The issue is the way ceasefire has been announced.
24:50The question is not whether the ceasefire should be done or should not be that, that should be
24:54left to the government of India.
24:55They should, they are in a position to tell us whether the strategic objectives were achieved
24:59or not.
25:00But what is debatable in and what is quarrelsome is that the way Mr. Prime, the perception
25:05is that the American president has intervened, pressurized, and asked us to go for ceasefire.
25:12That's the fundamental question.
25:14And two tweets from Mr. Donald Trump, one from the Marco Rubio, and one video bites, he has
25:22been repeating the same, same, same thing.
25:24None of the ministers just came out of Pelley and said, Mr. Donald Trump, you are wrong.
25:29You are lying.
25:30You know, Ashutosh, there's a question of that as well, which we'll circle back to on what
25:34India makes of what seemingly was foreign intervention.
25:37I'm not, I'm not a defense expert.
25:39I'm not a strategic affairs affair.
25:41So I will not comment on whether the ceasefire should be done or should not be done.
25:44No, we're just talking about the mood of the nation.
25:46All right.
25:47We're just talking about on what people really think right now at the back of it.
25:50And Rajat, I want to pull you in.
25:51It's something that Yashwant touched on, you were not there with us earlier, that, you
25:54know, when they were pulling in the responses, it wasn't just, you know, usually you see
25:59very stark responses coming in from a set which supports the NDA or, you know, a set that
26:05supports the UPA.
26:06Here, there was a single narrative even in the respondents where across the board, if 43%
26:13felt that this was good, 29% and it was a mix of both sides which felt that not good at
26:19all.
26:21See, I think, Piti Ji, when it comes to national issues, people cross BJP or Congress political
26:28lines and they look at the issue as an Indian.
26:31And I think what a lot of people's perception that was largely created by Indian media was
26:38that, you know, we are winning this war and we are going to go much beyond the initial
26:42remit of the operation and go in and acquire some land or some extra pound of flesh out
26:49of Pakistan.
26:49I think that is where we as a nation also needs to understand.
26:54Our defense forces, when they started the operation, their operational objectives were
27:01very clear.
27:01The challenge is that, you know, when we, we get emotional and we start feeling that as
27:06if it's a, you're going and buying vegetable and you, you buy two kgs of mango, why don't
27:11you go and buy two kgs of watermelon also while you're on the way?
27:14This, I don't think defense operations work like this.
27:17And this is where public perceptions should not guide what our operational objectives and
27:22operational strategies should be.
27:24And I think our prime minister and our defense forces think with a calm level headed, unlike
27:30Pakistan, which goes by a desire to showcase.
27:33What is this concept of on-ramp, off-ramp nonsense?
27:36It is to showcase your people.
27:38Our government and our defense forces doesn't care about those off-ramps because we are confident
27:43as a nation.
27:44And this is where I want to even go out and point out to what Ashutosh and others are trying
27:48to say.
27:49Why do we always are in this perpetual need for a Western country's concurrence as to what
27:55our strategy should be and how we should think about?
27:58If they want to bark on something, they want to jump on something, let them do it.
28:02But Rajat, they both are saying exactly what you're saying.
28:05They both are saying that we shouldn't be doing it.
28:07You know, that's exactly what they're saying.
28:08But I'm going to come right back around me.
28:09No, no, but they are pivoting their entire thing as to why Trump, let Trump meet all of
28:15those things.
28:15All right, I'm going to take two other questions that we posed.
28:19Okay, allow me.
28:20I'm going to take two other questions back to back on what we posed and what the responses
28:24were.
28:24And it's really interesting because if you actually look at the responses, the second question
28:27that was posed to the respondents and the results that polled seemed to suggest.
28:33And the question was, how successful do you think India has been in achieving objectives
28:38in this conflict before the ceasefire between India and Pakistan?
28:43Was India successful in achieving its objectives before the ceasefire was announced?
28:48The results of that, 45% say completely successful.
28:53Then 37% say successful to some extent, not successful at all.
29:0013% cannot say 5%.
29:03And so even in this, we see a bit of a split there.
29:06Yashbanth, you want to reflect on this?
29:08The same sentiment is across the spectrum.
29:16People across the spectrum, it is not about a certain section is saying this and certain
29:20sections that.
29:21There is a sense of disappointment.
29:23Even then overwhelming support for the army and the thing.
29:26But there is a sense of disappointment that whatever people wanted to achieve or people had thought
29:32of achieving, that sort of action was not completed, probably, yes.
29:38And second thing which I wanted to say was an extension of what I made a point earlier,
29:43Priti.
29:44Those who are completely disappointed have a larger section of NDA supporters.
29:49And that's very unique because, you know, on any question where you are criticizing the
29:55government, so far we have seen that those who are criticizing the government have a larger
30:00section of the UPA or the India Alliance supporters.
30:04But this is the other way around.
30:05So obviously, within their rank and file, they were hoping that a much bigger action, much
30:13longer action and much decisive action will be taken.
30:16So there is a sense of disappointment.
30:19But having said that, that doesn't mean that disappointment is taking place as if they
30:24are not backing our army or they are not backing our decision.
30:28Fair point.
30:29You know, fair point.
30:29And I want to take off from what Yashwan says.
30:31And Neerja, if you'd want to come and reflect on this, because it's very interesting, because
30:34when Mr. Deshmukh says that, strangely, this time around, the disappointment has stemmed from
30:40traditional NDA supporters.
30:41So the whole narrative of public opinion, of the political rhetoric around it, clearly
30:49has taken a hit.
30:51Yes.
30:52You know, we'll go to the ends of the earth and catch each one of them.
30:57You know, rhetoric was very sharp and, as we know, from the senior people in the Congress,
31:04in the BJP.
31:05And it is also true that you're right, one third of the opinion is of that view that
31:11we should not have had a ceasefire.
31:15And many people believe that we should finish Pakistan.
31:20This is a thing we heard many people.
31:22Once and for all, they keep leading us.
31:24Once and for all, finish them forever.
31:26Now, whether you can, people don't realize you can't finish another country forever.
31:31America couldn't do it with Vietnam.
31:32Other countries have not been able to do it.
31:34That apart.
31:36One thing also we must not forget is the first statement that we made when we went in for
31:42that precision hit of nine places of, you know, terror hubs inside Pakistan and in POK.
31:50That what was it?
31:52It is to say that our effort was, it was measured, it was restrained, and it was non-escalatory.
32:01Right.
32:02They said, we don't want a war.
32:03From day one, we were saying we don't want a war.
32:06And people wanted Pakistan to be taught a lesson and enough is enough message to be sent.
32:11But did they want a prolonged war?
32:13If you talk to people two days ago, the day the ceasefire took place, and ask them, do you
32:19want a prolonged war?
32:20Most people said, no, they don't want a prolonged war at all.
32:23They don't want killing.
32:25They don't want hardship all around.
32:27Fair point.
32:27So that being the case, I think Donald Trump exercised pressure, America exercised pressure.
32:34We're going to come to that question.
32:37But was it in our interest also to pull out when we did?
32:42You know, I'm going to come down to that question.
32:44Before I get in, both our political spokespersons back in and Rajat and Ashutosh, I want to take
32:48our next question.
32:49The next question that was asked was, how long do you think Pakistan will stick to the
32:54ceasefire agreement?
32:56And that could practically correlate.
32:58Why?
32:59Most Indians thought that we should not have agreed to the ceasefire.
33:02Because look at what the respondents say, viewers.
33:07Only some hours, 26%.
33:09This is how 26% of India feels that only some hours will Pakistan respect the ceasefire.
33:16And that's practically what happened.
33:17Because after the ceasefire was announced, we've already seen the ceasefire being breached
33:22multiple times across the LOC.
33:2435% say just a few days.
33:2816% say some months.
33:31And only 6% say some years.
33:34And of course, only 4% say some years.
33:35So it all ties in together.
33:37Why most Indians thought that we should have gone in deeper, not basically adhered or accepted
33:44or agreed to the ceasefire.
33:46And I want to bring in Tuhin Sina and Dr. Kumar back into this conversation.
33:51Because Tuhin Sina, let's take off from what Yashwant Deshmukh said.
33:54That most of the respondents who actually are not happy that the ceasefire was agreed to by India
34:03are really not UPA or India supporters.
34:06They are actually NDA supporters.
34:08You know, again, I would say that respondents and, you know, war does not happen based on opinion.
34:15You know, opinion of the citizens because they don't know what is going on.
34:20And also, you know, please understand chemotherapy also happens in doses.
34:24The patient should also be able to take it.
34:27So let Pakistan misbehave again.
34:30We have repeated this, that this is not the end.
34:33The onus is on Pakistan to behave itself.
34:36And, you know, if you heard the senior commander of the Navy, the warning is very clear.
34:42Subsequently, the cost will go up from here.
34:45Fair point.
34:46But Mr. Tuhin Sina, allow me a rebuttal.
34:48And then you may answer and I'll bring in Dr. Kumar at that.
34:50You know, but is this then, you know, the price to pay?
34:54Because after Balakot, the political rhetoric was so strong that we will go to the ends of the earth.
34:59Garme ghuske mara, all of that.
35:02So now the expectations were, the public expectations were on a completely different level.
35:07Well, for now, the two objectives have been obtained.
35:11You know, terrorists, and you should be happy, a journalist, Daniel Pearl, who was killed in 2002.
35:16You know, we have put his murderers, his terrorists to justice.
35:20I mean, terrorists involved in IC814 hijacked.
35:25They have been brutalized.
35:27So I think, you know, the objectives were very clear.
35:29Brutalizing terrorists who have unleashed, you know, horror upon Indians and upon India in the last three decades.
35:37That's point number one.
35:38If Pakistan resorted to misadventure, we had to resort with proportionate punishment,
35:43which is what we have done when we destroyed 12 PAF air bases.
35:47So I think with these, for now, the objectives have been obtained, have been attained.
35:52Okay.
35:53And for now, it's the onus, like I have repeated, the onus is on Pakistan to behave itself.
35:58Okay.
35:58Well, you know, Mr. Tuhin Sina, you know, I'd be happy as a journalist, but also as someone whose father has fought too, was the 65 and 71.
36:05So it's a very, very different level of connection there.
36:08I want to bring in Dr. Rajoy Kumar into this conversation.
36:10Dr. Kumar, the fact is, and Tuhin Sina is completely right.
36:15You know, at one end, there is public perception and expectations.
36:18On the other hand, the armed forces cannot be run by public expectations and political rhetoric.
36:24You know, so, Priti, there are two, three existential crises for the country.
36:32One is this Godi media.
36:33Rajoy Kumar correctly said, you know, you have never asked questions on Pelgon.
36:38You never asked questions on Pulwama.
36:40You never asked people, and that's why we are getting weaker.
36:44And these guys are getting carried away with that.
36:46I agree with Tuhin on one thing, that the national security issue, it was professional.
36:49See, I've got to give them one point.
36:50The conduct of the Operation Sindhu in terms of the targets was good.
36:55There's no debate.
36:55The way they did it, it was professional.
36:58What is troubling this country is the expectations of every motor mouth in the Bhartia Janata Party and their allies.
37:06The total subservient, ridiculous media, I mean, the kind of stuff.
37:11So what you're doing is you're expecting the image of the country.
37:13So you're not asking questions like, why did Pulwama happen?
37:16It's for the country to know so that it doesn't happen again.
37:19Why did the Pelgam guys not get arrested?
37:21These are questions not anti-national.
37:24These are questions which any nation should ask to protect itself.
37:28And as a patriotic India, now all of us, I also served in the government for so many years.
37:32So my question is, I agree with them that you can't go on a survey.
37:36But believe me, Priti, your colleagues are one of the worst offenders of not asking questions.
37:43And since you don't ask questions to the government, you cannot fix and you cover it up with rhetoric.
37:49You know, Dr. Kumar, you know, clearly, you know, you've come in here, I won't say propaganda, but with an agenda, which is to target the media.
37:56Priti, I want five seconds of indulgence.
38:00You tell me something.
38:02Please indulge me.
38:03The job is to ask questions to us and to them.
38:07As a true India, that's all.
38:09And have you seen that?
38:09I can safely vouch for my colleagues in my channel.
38:14One second.
38:14Allow me.
38:15There's a question, you know, like I said, because this is not the first time, this is the third time.
38:18Dr. Kumar has mentioned it.
38:20I answered it before and let me once again answer this.
38:22But, Dr. Kumar, the fact is I can't vouch for other channels and we cannot.
38:26We can vouch for my channel, my sister concerned channel and my colleagues in these channels.
38:31We did make a mistake.
38:32We owned up to it.
38:33Like I said, the best in the business sometimes make a mistake.
38:37We came out with a public apology.
38:39And we did so because we understand the kind of trust and faith our viewers repose in us.
38:44So, you know, there was a conflict but there was this fog of war.
38:48We made a mistake.
38:49We came out apologizing for it.
38:52And since then, we've been very, very responsible in our reportage.
38:56So, I can vouch for my channel.
38:57I can vouch for my colleagues.
38:59And I will, at this point of time, go into our next set of questions and go back to our panelists.
39:04So, the other question that was asked and the responses on that.
39:08According to you, what was the main reason for the ceasefire between India and Pakistan?
39:12And this is where it gets interesting and political as well, viewers.
39:16Diplomatic pressure from world's major superpowers.
39:19And that is what even the opposition is questioning.
39:2242% of India actually believes this was not what India wanted.
39:27But our hand was forced because of diplomatic pressure.
39:31That is what the respondents have polled.
39:33And once again, viewers, this is both India Alliance voters as well as India Alliance voters.
39:40There is no difference of opinion.
39:41Economic internal challenges for both countries, just about 18%.
39:45Fear of a nuclear war, just about 11%.
39:48Can't say, of course, stands at 18%.
39:52But overall, look at that figure.
39:5442% of Indians who responded, practically 4 in 10 Indians who were asked,
40:00actually believe that it was diplomatic pressure.
40:04And that, Ashutosh, is one question that has constantly been posed by the opposition.
40:09Most Indian citizens not happy, especially with what we saw yesterday,
40:13the press call, you know, of Donald Trump's speech coming in just about half hour before
40:19our Prime Minister's address to the nation, something you also spoke of early on in the show.
40:25See, Priti, before answering your question, let me say this very categorically that
40:29government is accountable to the people and the army is reporting to the political bosses.
40:36So this rhetoric that people, that the people should not know, people should not be deciding,
40:42I think I don't buy that argument.
40:44In democracy, ultimately, whether it is army or it is the government accountable
40:48and have every right to know the decision you have taken, whether it is good faith or the bad faith
40:52or have you taken a good decision or the bad decision.
40:55Now, the fundamental question is this, which I have been raising.
40:59This fundamental question, this perception has gone all over the world
41:02that Indian government has succumbed to the pressure of the one country
41:09that its name is United States of America.
41:13And now they compare this situation and it totally reflects in the survey done by
41:17Yashman Deshmukh and the sea water.
41:19There is absolutely no doubt about it.
41:20You talk to anybody on the street and I've been talking to people.
41:23Ashutosh, hold on to that thought.
41:24Rajat, I'm coming to you.
41:26I'm sorry I'm interrupting you.
41:28Sir, I don't have much time.
41:29I want to bring you all in.
41:30I have three sets of questions to go through.
41:32So, you know, allow me to bring in our next question and I will bring in Rajat
41:36and I will cut across back to our panelists.
41:38The other question that was asked is because these two questions tie in together.
41:41Do you think India is getting enough support from countries around the world
41:44in its fight against terrorism?
41:46Yes, completely.
41:4747% of India actually feels that we've got the support,
41:51contrary to what Dr. Rajoy Kumar said earlier on in the show.
41:55Yes, to some extent, 34%.
41:56No, not at all, 12%.
41:59Can't say 7%.
42:00So, split even keel there.
42:01Rajat Sethi, you wanted to come in at the back of what Ashutosh said.
42:05Go ahead, sir.
42:06See, you know, I, with utmost respect for Yashmanji,
42:10my problem is with framing of certain questions.
42:13If you frame this question that Pakistan lost and went to America
42:17and America requested India to come in,
42:20that also qualifies under diplomatic pressure.
42:22But if you put that as a leading question,
42:25that a lot of people will certainly fall for that.
42:27But let me tell you once again,
42:29this entire, you know, opposition's single point playing
42:33to actually get back to BJP here is that,
42:35oh, Trump announced before.
42:36Trump, we all know and understand,
42:39he has a habit of doing things in his own way.
42:43Things which do not fall in place with the regular geopolitical stuff.
42:47You know exactly it was not India which picked up the phone
42:50and called the DGMO of Pakistan.
42:52It was Pakistan DGMO.
42:53What was that reason?
42:54That is the reason why this ceasefire was brought in.
42:57Not for so-called diplomatic pressure.
42:59Where is that pressure?
43:00Where is that diplomatic pressure that Ashutosh is privy to?
43:03Or perhaps Ajay ji is privy to?
43:05I want to understand.
43:06You make a point.
43:07Rajat, you say that, you know,
43:09what you spoke of is in the beginning
43:10that possibly it's not posing the questions, right?
43:13I want to bring in Yashwanji.
43:14But before I bring in Yashwanji,
43:16I will, you know, put forth one question.
43:19No, sir, please allow me.
43:20Allow me.
43:21I don't have the time.
43:21Allow me to, because, you know, why it ties in.
43:23Because it's not posing the question wrongly.
43:26Because clearly,
43:27most Indians completely distrust the United States of America.
43:31And why so, Rajat?
43:32Because there was a question that was posed.
43:34Which country do you trust more?
43:36The US or Russia in terms of protecting India's interests?
43:40And look at, there's a clear divide there.
43:45Trust, we're going to play that question.
43:47Which country do you trust more?
43:49Let's play that question first.
43:51Which country do you trust more?
43:52The US or Russia in terms of protecting India's interests?
43:58Trust US more than Russia, 12%.
44:01Trust Russia more than US, 68%.
44:04So it's not really about how you pose a question,
44:07Yashwan Deshmukh, the mind of, you know, Indians,
44:11the Indian citizen, especially on where they stand
44:13after the ceasefire and what they perceive
44:16was American intervention is very clear.
44:19Absolutely.
44:20And Priti, I think the tweet of Mr. Trump
44:24has kind of backfired big time.
44:27And the Indian public opinion.
44:30I can say this because we have been trapping
44:33these, you know, trustworthiness of different countries.
44:36And 2008, one, two, three agreement onward,
44:40we had seen very clearly that public opinion
44:44and slow and steady was moving more and more
44:46in favor of Americans so far.
44:49But at this point of time, a lot of public memory,
44:53how the Russians have helped India in the previous wars.
44:57And this time also, no moral preaching, no gyan,
45:00nothing coming from the Moscow's way.
45:02Only thing that we know is the missile
45:04that has worked for India, I mean, in terms of defense,
45:08you know, and also that jumping the gun
45:13with this tweet.
45:14I mean, I understand Roger's point
45:15that everybody knows how Mr. Trump does his thing
45:20the way he does.
45:21But it clearly tells that it has backfired
45:24as far as the public perception is concerned.
45:27People are not appreciating it.
45:29I'm sure even Rajat or me or you,
45:31anybody will not appreciate the way Mr. Trump has tweeted.
45:34You know, any Indian will not appreciate that.
45:36But that has gone down in the month.
45:39And the clarity of thought is very clear, Rajat.
45:41I'll ask all of you for final comments.
45:43Allow me to bring in.
45:44Rajat, I'll come to you.
45:45Just allow me to bring in our last question.
45:47And each of you, I'm going to come back to
45:48for your final comments.
45:49Do you think that terrorist incidents will stop
45:53after the ceasefire between India and Pakistan?
45:56Well, this is what most Indians have to say.
45:58Look at it.
45:59The respondents polled yes to a great extent, only 13%.
46:02Yes to a small extent, 32%.
46:04Despite of what has gone down over the last six days,
46:07viewers, 48% of India actually believes not at all.
46:11Pakistan hasn't learnt its lesson.
46:1348% of Indians actually believe that.
46:17I want to cut across back, you know,
46:19I'm going to take one final question from each of you.
46:22Make your closing submissions there.
46:24Starting with Tuhin Sina,
46:25because Tuhin Sina, this is what India thinks.
46:27And it doesn't auger well in terms of perception
46:29after what we have seen,
46:32where at least the political perception is concerned.
46:35Because a strong message was delivered that India...
46:38Go ahead, sir.
46:39Go ahead, make your point.
46:40I would suggest that you do this poll two weeks later,
46:44because, you know, when people are charged up,
46:46when people are animated, they respond differently.
46:50So please do this poll two weeks later.
46:52You will get a different response.
46:53And I need to respond.
46:54You know, Jai Kumar, my friend,
46:57should not be using words like subservient today
47:00for the Indian government.
47:01You know, what we have done to Pakistan,
47:03and not just to Pakistan,
47:04we have set a new deterrence paradigm for the whole world.
47:08We have taken up the cudgels on behalf of the world
47:10to fight global terrorists.
47:12I think that's a big thing which they could not even imagine
47:15of doing post-2006 train blasts in Mumbai,
47:18or 2008 Mumbai blasts which killed nearly 170 people.
47:22So I don't think he should be,
47:23and the Congress Party should be using, you know,
47:25words like subservient.
47:26All right, okay.
47:28So some of the questions,
47:29Dr. Ajay Kumar,
47:30that were raised by the opposition
47:32do find resonance with the people of India.
47:34But there is a point Tuhin Sinha's making,
47:36because right now,
47:37there is this adrenaline that everybody,
47:40you know, was in,
47:41especially at the back of what we'd seen.
47:43Maybe if things calm down,
47:44maybe after a week or two,
47:45where you look at it,
47:46you know,
47:47where things have calmed down,
47:49and we look at it at a different picture,
47:51maybe people react differently.
47:53Yeah, but just to correct Tuhin,
47:54I said subservience to the press,
47:56not to the government.
47:57So for the press subservience,
47:58I was speaking about the role of the press.
48:01The important part, again, is,
48:04what does the government,
48:05you see the kind of,
48:07you want to unite the country on a challenge like this,
48:10then you go and set out the most deceitful,
48:12horrible videos attacking the opposition.
48:15Okay.
48:15You know, and they cannot get away from this.
48:17Now the minister's attacking Sofia Qureshi.
48:20Then they're attacking somebody else.
48:21My question to you is,
48:23that is Pakistani playbook.
48:25Okay.
48:25Convert Indian to hate.
48:26So I'm saying, please, yeah,
48:27you want to win elections at the cost of country,
48:29don't do it.
48:30Okay.
48:30Join everybody together.
48:31Okay, Dr. Kumar,
48:32allow me to quickly move on.
48:33I don't have time.
48:34I want to move on, you know,
48:35with the other.
48:36There are a lot of motor mouths
48:37even within the Congress, sir.
48:38So I just want to...
48:40You must highlight that.
48:41Okay.
48:42Okay.
48:42Okay.
48:43Very quickly,
48:43Rajat Sethi,
48:44you wanted to make a point.
48:45Go ahead, sir.
48:46Quickly, though.
48:48Simple point is,
48:49no power on earth
48:50can create
48:51quote-unquote
48:52diplomatic pressure on India.
48:54India,
48:55Indian government,
48:56India's defense forces,
48:57what was at a note point in time,
49:00came under American pressure.
49:02Okay.
49:02It was Pakistan
49:03which reached out
49:04to Americans
49:06who hold the keys
49:07to nuclear weapons.
49:09And that is where
49:09the pressure game of Pakistan
49:11onto U.S. went.
49:12U.S. only would have requested
49:14that they are ready to...
49:15I give you 30 seconds, sir.
49:16Make your point.
49:17See, Preeti,
49:19are we trying to tell
49:20to the whole world
49:21that one DGMO
49:22called up and said,
49:23man,
49:23you're very fast
49:23and you're going to do it.
49:25You're going to do it.
49:25And then we have
49:26closed our ceasefire.
49:28What nonsense
49:28we're talking about?
49:29Did Jardari pick up a phone
49:31and talk to our president?
49:32Did the prime minister of Pakistan
49:33called up our prime minister?
49:34No.
49:35So obviously,
49:36there was a pressure
49:36from the United States
49:37of America
49:38and I'm still holding
49:39my phone.
49:40I'm saying
49:40if the government of India
49:41is so worried about it,
49:42they should come out openly
49:43and say,
49:43Mr. Trump,
49:44you are lying.
49:44Yeshwan,
49:45is it possible
49:46with what Tuhin Sinha said?
49:48Because right now
49:48there is a blood rush.
49:50You know,
49:50we are working
49:51on a different form
49:51of adrenaline.
49:52If this survey
49:53was done about 10 days later,
49:54we'd probably
49:55get different results?
49:58We don't know.
49:59But what I can assure
49:59to our viewers
50:00that we continue tracking
50:02and we'll come up
50:02with the numbers
50:0310 years down the lane
50:04and we'll update you
50:06all the time.
50:07That's the point
50:08of having the trackers.
50:09But one thing
50:09I am absolutely sure
50:10that where I started,
50:12Priti,
50:13that people are clear
50:14in their mind
50:15what is right,
50:17what is wrong,
50:17what their perception
50:18about this thing is.
50:20At this point of time,
50:21they are 100%
50:22behind the army.
50:24They are even supporting
50:25big time the government
50:26in whatever decisions
50:27the government is taking.
50:28There is no opinion
50:29about that.
50:30But there is a sense
50:32of disappointment.
50:33And yes,
50:3490 out of 100 Indians
50:35are literally refusing
50:37to trust Pakistan
50:38on any damn thing.
50:40So people have spoken
50:41with clarity.
50:4220 seconds,
50:43Nishja,
50:43and I want to close
50:44the show at that.
50:44What is the political
50:45messaging of this?
50:47Look,
50:48you know,
50:48the political messaging
50:49is very clear
50:50that India will take
50:52on Pakistan,
50:54inflict a higher cost
50:56on Pakistan
50:57if there's another
50:58terror attack.
50:58And most Indians
50:59believe there will be.
51:01Pakistan is not going
51:02to learn lessons
51:03so easily.
51:05And the other thing
51:06that we have to think
51:07about,
51:08what are the lessons
51:09we have learned?
51:10What has gone for us
51:11is that the people
51:12of India,
51:13Hindu,
51:14Muslim,
51:14Kashmiri,
51:15women of India
51:16stood as one
51:18during this.
51:19And that's the
51:20thing that,
51:21you know,
51:21we can be proud of.
51:23But we have lessons
51:24to learn in terms
51:25of our diplomacy.
51:26It is true that
51:27China,
51:27UAE,
51:28Qatar stood with Pakistan.
51:29We are not talking
51:30about anti-terror.
51:31We are talking about
51:32during the war.
51:33Fair point, ma'am.
51:35Fair point, fair point.
51:38I, you know,
51:38I need to end the show.
51:40That's all we have.
51:40But we are going to
51:41continue tracking
51:41the sentiment of the people
51:43because these were
51:44unprecedented circumstances.
51:46So if there was
51:47an adrenaline rush,
51:48we'll keep tracking
51:49viewers and we're going
51:49to keep getting you
51:50the latest results.
51:51But for now,
51:52the people of India
51:53have spoken with
51:54abject clarity.
51:55Disappointed,
51:56but with the armed forces.