In this edition of our weekly talk show, panelists discuss the new coalition government in Germany, the presidential election in Romania and the aftermath of the power outage in southwestern Europe.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Brussels, my love, our weekly talk show from the heart of Europe,
00:17today from the European Parliament in Strasbourg.
00:20Here we discuss what moves Europe for better or for worse.
00:25I'm Stefan Grobe, great to have you with us.
00:27Coming up this week, shock and embarrassment in Berlin.
00:32Friedrich Merz was only elected as the new German Chancellor by the Bundestag in the second round of voting.
00:38This never happened before in the history of the Federal Republic.
00:42Is he already damaged goods before he can bring the show on the road?
00:47Or can his coalition still work together in a spirit of trust?
00:51And what about his ambitious plans for Europe?
00:54And in Romania, an ultra-nationalist populist secured a first-round victory in the country's presidential election.
01:03He will now head to a run-off on May 18th against an independent centrist dealing a blow to Romania's ruling establishment.
01:10There's much at stake now.
01:12Will Romanians maintain the country's pro-European course or will anti-U forces prevail?
01:19Questions for our guests today, all members of the European Parliament,
01:24namely Damien Böselager from the German Volt Party, sitting with the Greens,
01:29Anna Sturck from Renew Europe, and Siegfried Mourijan from the European People's Party.
01:35Thanks again for coming on the show.
01:37It's great to have you here.
01:38Now, before we get the conversation going,
01:41let's take a closer look at what happened in Berlin this week.
01:44Friedrich Merz has reached his long-desired political destination.
01:54After decades on and off politics, the 69-year-old has finally become the 10th chancellor of the Federal Republic.
02:02In the three months after snap elections that turned his Christian Democrats into the biggest force in the Bundestag,
02:15Merz has already come under sustained attacks from fellow conservatives and their media allies
02:20for giving too much away to the Social Democrats, his coalition partner.
02:27And that was before he even moved into the chancellery.
02:32Now, Merz has to deliver.
02:36There are huge expectations in Berlin and Brussels that Merz revives the economy,
02:41brings Europe back on track, repairs the sputtering French-German engine,
02:45rains in Trump and tames migration.
02:52Can he do all that?
02:54Where are potential pitfalls?
02:56All right, so that was quite a shocker this week.
03:02Damien, I want to start with you.
03:05Merz's defeat in the first round.
03:07Was that really a total surprise or was there some writing on the wall?
03:12What do you think?
03:13You see, Merz had a rocky start, even though the start was already 20 years ago,
03:17so it has been maybe a rocky ride for decades now.
03:20I think it was a bit of a superfluous thing that happened,
03:23maybe even irresponsible by some of the members of parliament of the Bundestag
03:27to not vote him indirectly.
03:29At the moment, I think it's very clear that in Germany and Germany for Europe as well,
03:33we need a stable government.
03:34So I would have wished for less of a rocky start and more stability now in this time.
03:39Merz already did a lot of very, let's say, surprising moves for his voters,
03:43at least right after the elections.
03:45And I think what we all need in Germany and in Europe is a stable German government.
03:50Anna, you're from Austria, which also has some history of complicated coalitions here.
03:56How do you explain this lack of support?
03:59I mean, there were 18 votes.
04:0118.
04:01I mean, there's always one or two dissenters, right?
04:04But 18 is enormous.
04:06What do you make of this?
04:08Well, honestly, when I first heard it, I was just plainly frustrated.
04:11And I think this is also how a lot of voters feel,
04:13because what we expect is for politicians to rise up
04:17and to take the responsibility that they were given from the voters.
04:21And clearly, at least 18 members of the Bundestag did not have that responsibility.
04:29And I'm sorry, but this is not the time for party plays or power moves.
04:34I agree with you.
04:36This is a time for not just stability, but it's a time to come together and actually work on solutions
04:41and bring solutions to the huge tasks ahead of us that we just talked about in this little clip.
04:48So I really cannot understand how politicians do this.
04:51And maybe if I may, you know, if we already see a rise in far-right politics,
04:57we already see a rise in populism.
05:00And honestly, if we continue like this, if Democrats are kind of self-dismantling themselves,
05:06then we don't even have to wait for them to become stronger.
05:09We're doing it ourselves.
05:09And I think we cannot let that happen.
05:12And Sigrid, if you were a German member of the Bundestag,
05:16Christian Democrat, obviously, would you have voted for Friedrich Merz?
05:19Yes, absolutely. And had I been a social Democrat, I would have voted for him as well.
05:23Because, as you've also said, you know, this was the end of a process
05:28in which Friedrich Merz ran an electoral campaign, which he won.
05:31His party came in first.
05:33Then he negotiated a coalition agreement of the two major parties in the country
05:37in a relatively good period of time.
05:40That coalition agreement was approved by his party and was voted,
05:45was approved in a referendum of the members.
05:46He has been criticized by conservatives within his own ranks, right,
05:51for giving away too much to the Social Democrats.
05:53Was that justified?
05:55Well, if the two major parties that had been competing for decades
05:58are now forming a coalition, it's obvious that this is a compromise.
06:01Nobody can be 100% happy with the outcome.
06:05But this, I believe, is, you know, the best possible government that Germany can have.
06:11I think for all of us in Europe, the largest member state of the Union having a government is good news.
06:16The politicians are normally criticized for doing too little.
06:19Now, even before he took office, he took some bold initiatives, some bold measures on investments,
06:25on security, on defense.
06:27Normally we're unhappy because politicians do too little.
06:29Now there comes somebody who, you know, does things, and all of a sudden we think it's too much too soon.
06:35I think we should observe.
06:37But all in all, I think it's good news that EU's largest member state has a stable government now.
06:42Maybe can I come in on this one second?
06:44I think nobody, actually, most of the opposition parties seem to be quite happy that he made the move towards more investment.
06:50I think the problem was what he did before in the campaign where he said, I would never go away from the debt rules.
06:56And I think that really made some conservatives unhappy because he really clearly said, I'm not going to break the debt rules.
07:03And then now he completely failed him.
07:04Well, and then he did it with the help of the Greens, so they should have voted for him too, maybe.
07:08It's just, I think for me personally, I would have just wished for more honesty during the electoral campaign
07:12because he would have won anyways, and then he would have less of a backlash now.
07:17But in the end, I think it's true.
07:18Like, it's not about, I mean, I didn't vote for the CDU in the federal elections.
07:22I voted for my own party.
07:24But still, at this juncture of where we are right now, I think it's clear that if you're part of a coalition government,
07:29you do compromises and you support.
07:31And it's not so much about, you know, whether Saskia Eskin was treated fairly or whether...
07:36The co-chairwoman of the Social Democrats.
07:38Exactly.
07:38Or if there was too much SPD in the coalition program, it's done now.
07:42Now we need to move ahead.
07:43There are huge expectations of the new government in Germany and in the EU,
07:48and some experts in Brussels who I've spoken to have said they have never seen anything like that.
07:53What do people in Germany expect from the new Emerits government, those who voted for him and those who didn't?
07:59We've asked people in the streets of Berlin.
08:01Take a listen.
08:02Yes, of course, we hope that the new federal government will take care of the problems that we are facing,
08:08and that is quite a lot.
08:09We need to consolidate our finances.
08:11We need to give the economy a new push.
08:13And of course, we have foreign policy problems.
08:15And whatever you have voted, you can only wish the new government the best of luck in tackling these issues well.
08:24Well, I'd like the government to simply do what it says, and that we realize that democracy works.
08:29Well, I'm finally happy that something different is happening, because the previous government wasn't that great before.
08:39And let's see what Merz brings.
08:41His promises, I'm just curious.
08:43Yeah, let's see what Merz brings.
08:50We've just heard.
08:51It seems that he has an expectation bonus, Anna.
08:54How long will that last?
08:56Well, I never know whether expectation is a bonus or really can harm,
09:02because if there's such a huge expectation, then you almost can only fall short of that.
09:07But again, I think what we need to see is politicians, and be that the German government,
09:13but that's true for everywhere, actually working.
09:15And we just heard it, right?
09:17What the people want is for politicians to act, to work on the huge challenges that are ahead of us,
09:22and to stop the infighting and the silly, he said, she said,
09:27we need to come together, find compromises.
09:30I think this is something that this house knows very well how to do.
09:33Sometimes we're being criticized for it, but I think it's a virtue of this house.
09:38And I think, yeah, national governments, like in Germany,
09:42they maybe could learn a little bit about those compromises.
09:47And Siegfried, if there is any winner in this week's debacle,
09:52it may be the far-right AfD party.
09:56Is that true?
09:57And can the party capitalize on that?
10:00I'm convinced that in the long term, the incident that happened this week,
10:05that by a very narrow margin, he failed to be elected in the first round.
10:10I'm convinced that that would not matter in the long term.
10:13People expect the German government to deliver.
10:16They expect the German government to reduce bureaucracy, cut red tape,
10:20manage migration crisis, transition successfully to a new economy,
10:25a digital economy, an economy which is energy efficient, which is competitive.
10:30There are so many challenges.
10:32We have autocrats around Europe trying to weaken us,
10:35trying to weaken all EU member states, interfering with elections,
10:39trying to weaken independent institutions.
10:42So the to-do list for him is so long.
10:45I'm sure he will be himself very soon forgetting about the fact...
10:48So no advantage for the far-right?
10:49Look, I think that won't matter in the long term.
10:52It was an event.
10:52It happened for the first time.
10:54That's why we are still discussing about it three days after it happened.
10:57But three weeks after it happened, really, it would not have mattered anymore.
11:00The far-right party was part of a big shocker the week before
11:04when the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution
11:08formally labeled the party extremist.
11:12in a thousand-page report that revived talk of a ban, of a possible ban of the party.
11:20Should the government and should the Bundestag pursue this?
11:24So first of all, I think for the people here in the European Parliament
11:27to find out that the AfD is extremist, it's actually not so surprising.
11:32The comments that we hear from the colleagues that even the, let's say,
11:36normal far-right within this house finds appalling and made them, you know,
11:41be really sitting alone and completely isolated.
11:43So if you want to put it mildly, the German extremists or fascists
11:47are always worse than those of other countries.
11:50And that's something we also learn from history.
11:52So I think it's like the label is a legal label
11:57and it has been applied by the Constitutional Service, as you said,
12:01and I think it's probably valuable.
12:03So what should we do now?
12:04I think the first thing is we need to look at what we do with police officers
12:08and army officers that are potentially AfD members.
12:11What does it mean?
12:12So everyone who holds such a status,
12:14we need to definitely look at the party finances
12:16and the potential ban there
12:18because we should not be supporting with taxpayers, with public money,
12:21people that are extremists and are trying to undermine our democratic order.
12:26And then, yes, we should also look at the ban.
12:28I think what's important to understand is,
12:30and this label has lost some of its power,
12:32extremist means that they are not willing to work with other parties
12:35to build a democratic kind of situation,
12:39but that they want to turn our democracy upside down
12:41and as soon as they would have the power would actually do it
12:44and are trying that already.
12:46So this is a threat to our democracy
12:48and I think it's important that we deal with it
12:50with all the measures that we have.
12:51Anna, roughly 50% of Germans in latest pollings
12:58would support an AfD ban.
13:03What's your opinion?
13:04I mean, you're in Austria, you have a similar situation here.
13:08Would it be politically wise to do it?
13:11I mean, some in the new majority seem to be sceptical about this.
13:15I mean, I think it's always easy to be sitting here comfortably
13:20in another country or from another country
13:23and judging other countries' decisions
13:26or other countries' political situation.
13:30I think...
13:31So I'm being very careful with that.
13:34I think Damien has put it quite perfectly.
13:37You know, I mean, the stuff we hear here from the colleagues,
13:40I mean, it's not that different from what I hear
13:42from my FBI colleagues in there, so, you know,
13:45unfortunately they are very much in line.
13:47But, you know, I think I'm...
13:49At the moment I'm very happy what we saw happen in Austria,
13:53which was, you know, they were given the chance
13:55to form a government.
13:56They were given a chance to find a majority.
13:58But like you said,
13:59they don't actually have the interest in doing that.
14:02So they failed.
14:03They could have delivered to their voters,
14:05but they didn't want to.
14:06They failed.
14:07They'd rather continue their pro-Russian,
14:10anti-EU propaganda
14:12than actually take on responsibility.
14:15And I think this is something we have to remember,
14:17that usually the extremists,
14:20the far-right extremists,
14:21they have no interest in actually governing,
14:24in actually taking on responsibility.
14:26And this is something we can never forget.
14:28There's always the danger that if you ban an extremist party,
14:32the voters are still there, right?
14:34What would they do?
14:34And then will there be a new political formation, etc.?
14:37So you don't get rid of the problem.
14:39The problem in Germany is that one-fourth of the population
14:41are willing to support an extremist organization.
14:46You can ban a party, but you cannot ban the voters, right?
14:48Right.
14:48So basically, I also believe that the extremists
14:52do not have solutions to the challenges that we're facing.
14:55They cannot implement what they promise during the campaigns.
14:58What they promise is very often populistic.
15:00Sounds nice, silver bullet, but doesn't work in practice.
15:03Wherever they had the chance to govern and to influence
15:07the development of their countries,
15:10what was left was a mess.
15:12Look at Greece, extreme left,
15:14former Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras,
15:16Greece was on the verge of leaving the Euro area.
15:19Look in the United Kingdom, Brexit.
15:21Look in other countries as well.
15:23So they are dangerous.
15:25They have no solutions to the challenges that we're facing.
15:28This is why I say pro-Europeans have to work together.
15:32Extremists have to be marginalized.
15:34And we have to explain to the people
15:35that extremists are just playing with the people's fear
15:39in their own self-interests
15:41to make themselves as politicians big.
15:44But they are not really interested in solving the problems
15:47and serving the people.
15:48All right.
15:48So we talked a lot about politics.
15:49Let's bring in policy for a moment.
15:54Damien, Mertz has announced already,
15:57way before he became chancellor,
15:59that he wants to play a more assertive role in Europe.
16:03Is that good news or bad news for the rest of Europe?
16:07I was very hopeful when he said
16:08that he wants to be a Europe chancellor.
16:11But then, like a second later,
16:12he voted with the AfD, the far right,
16:15basically on potentially closing Germany's borders.
16:18And there was a bit of a setback,
16:20I have to say, in that direction.
16:22Also, when you look at the electoral program,
16:25sorry, the coalition agreement,
16:27where do you find Europe?
16:28Actually, at the bottom of everything.
16:30So first, everything else comes.
16:31And then, at the end,
16:32you find a small chapter about Europe
16:33that could have also been written 10 years ago.
16:36So, to be honest,
16:38so far I still have to see his great engagement for Europe.
16:41But I really, really, really hope
16:43that he will become more active
16:44and that he will also not just accept
16:46the status quo of the European Union,
16:48but think about how it should be
16:49to be able to deal with our challenges,
16:51be it defense, be it climate change,
16:53be it, you know, the economy and competitiveness.
16:55I think there's not only little laws
16:57that we have to change,
16:58but the actual procedures
16:59of how we take decisions in Europe.
17:01And so, my hope for him is that he does it.
17:03And I think, actually,
17:04he will not be successful on a national level
17:07if he doesn't fix the things
17:10that we need to fix together
17:10on a European level.
17:11Okay.
17:12And before I come to you,
17:13I want to bring in Guntram Wolf,
17:16an expert at the Brussels think tank Bruegel.
17:19We asked him about one issue
17:21that should be a priority for Merz in Europe.
17:24And this is what he told us.
17:27Take a listen.
17:27I think three things are central.
17:29First, Germany needs to really stand
17:32behind the European Union
17:34and make clear that it is the European Union
17:38that negotiates trade agreements,
17:41not Germany, not any individual country.
17:44Second, Germany has to push Europe
17:46to agree on more trade agreements
17:49and to sign more trade agreements
17:51with third countries,
17:52Mercosur, the Asian economies,
17:55other growing economies.
17:57And last but not least,
17:59Germany should support,
18:01through the European Union again,
18:04the multilateral trading system.
18:07All right.
18:08Anna, your comments.
18:09I can only agree with what's been said.
18:12And, you know, this is, I think,
18:14why, I mean,
18:15why are we even discussing this?
18:16Why am I as an Austrian
18:17or you as a Romanian
18:18talking about this passionately as well?
18:20Because obviously what happens in Germany
18:22matters for all of Europe.
18:23And whether we have a German leader
18:25who rises up to the challenge
18:27and who stands there together
18:28with someone like Macron,
18:30who has risen to the challenge
18:31in the last few months,
18:32who has become a strong European leader,
18:35and having two of them
18:37really standing there
18:38and supporting us as the European Union,
18:40particularly when it comes
18:41to the question of trade,
18:43I think this is the matter of these days.
18:46And I think we can only hope
18:48that MERS can rise to the occasion.
18:50Yeah.
18:50Sigrid, we've heard a lot about
18:52Macron and MERS being big buddies, right?
18:56I don't know whether this is true,
18:57but apparently compared to the former couple,
19:01there's much more to see here.
19:05Wolf mentioned Mercosur.
19:08Now, Germany wants it ratified,
19:11France not so much.
19:13How is MERS going to convince Macron
19:16that, you know,
19:17France is not only a country made up of farmers,
19:20but also a G7 industrial nation?
19:23Look, if the new U.S. president
19:25intends to isolate his country
19:26and his economy from the rest of the world,
19:29let him do it.
19:30We think it's a bad thing for the U.S.
19:32We think it would lead to more inflation,
19:34more poverty,
19:35less jobs for the people in the U.S.,
19:37less opportunities,
19:38less growth for American companies.
19:41But, you know,
19:41that's not so much our cup of tea.
19:45What we're interested in
19:46is supporting European companies,
19:49and we know that trade is good.
19:51We know that isolation leads to poverty,
19:53and trade leads to growth,
19:55leads to job creation.
19:57It led to the development
19:58that we saw in the past decades.
20:00This is why,
20:01as many other countries
20:02and regions of the world
20:04want to trade with us,
20:05we should do this.
20:06We need to conclude
20:09more trade agreements
20:10with other regions of the world
20:11and export more to those countries
20:13that are interested in our imports.
20:15That also leads to job creation
20:17here in Europe.
20:21Now on Mercosur,
20:22on the trade agreement
20:23with Latin America.
20:24There are some sectors of our economy
20:26that are still concerned,
20:28primarily agriculture.
20:30Many parts of the economy
20:32would benefit a lot
20:33from that trade agreement.
20:34some parts are still concerned.
20:36The right conclusion
20:37is not to stop the whole thing.
20:39The right conclusion
20:40is to support those
20:41who would be negatively impacted.
20:43So Friedrich Merz
20:44will have to find,
20:46together with us here
20:47in the European Parliament,
20:48together with the European Commission,
20:50tools to take away
20:52the fears of the farmers
20:54so that politicians
20:56in all member states
20:57can say,
20:57look,
20:58with this specific support
20:59for farmers,
21:00we can in good faith
21:00support that trade agreement.
21:02Short question,
21:03short answer.
21:04The Mercosur agreement
21:06has been signed.
21:07It now has to be ratified.
21:08So it's on the table.
21:09And it's,
21:10you take it
21:11or you leave it.
21:12What should we do?
21:14We take it.
21:15You want a short answer?
21:16We take it.
21:16I mean,
21:17Siegfried and Anna have said it.
21:18Look,
21:19the world is big,
21:20but it's not endless.
21:21And we have the,
21:23you know,
21:23North America,
21:24we have South America,
21:25we have the African continent,
21:27we have Asia,
21:28and we somehow
21:28need to diversify.
21:29So I think
21:30Mercosur is really,
21:31really important
21:32and we need to move ahead.
21:33All right.
21:34Thank you so much.
21:35That's all we have time for
21:36for this topic.
21:38Thanks to our panel
21:39for their insights.
21:41We're going to take
21:41a short break.
21:42And when we come back,
21:44pro-Europe or anti-Europe,
21:46what will voters in Romania
21:48finally decide?
21:49Stay with us.
21:59Welcome back to Brussels,
22:00my love.
22:01Our guests are still
22:02Anna Sturk,
22:03Siegfried Morizhan
22:04and Damian Bozelaga.
22:06The far-right Euroskeptic
22:08Jorge Simeon
22:09has won the first round
22:11of the Romanian
22:11presidential election rerun.
22:14You will remember
22:14that last year's election
22:15was annulled
22:16by the Supreme Court
22:17of Romania
22:18due to attempted
22:19Russian manipulation,
22:21a decision that was
22:22sharply criticized
22:23by the global far-right,
22:25including the Trump administration.
22:27A victory for Simeon
22:28could have a serious impact
22:30on Europe,
22:31say political observers.
22:33One of these observers
22:34is Claudio Poppa
22:35from Euronews Romania.
22:37He sums up for us again
22:38what this ballot is all about.
22:40Romania is heading
22:41into a tense
22:42and defining
22:43second round
22:43of presidential elections
22:45with voters
22:46facing a stark choice
22:47between two radically
22:48different candidates,
22:50Giorgio Simeon
22:51and Nicu Shordan.
22:52Simeon,
22:52the leader of
22:53the Nationalist Alliance
22:54for Romanian Unity Party,
22:56has increasingly aligned
22:57his rhetoric
22:58and position
22:59with those sympathetic
23:00to the Kremlin interests.
23:02In a recent
23:03and widely criticized
23:04statement,
23:05Simeon claimed
23:06that Russia
23:07poses no threat
23:08to NATO.
23:09His opponent
23:10is Nicu Shordan,
23:11an independent candidate
23:12with a background
23:13in mathematics
23:14and a strong
23:15pro-European
23:15progressive orientation.
23:17He successfully
23:18ran as an independent
23:19for the mayorship
23:20of Bucharest.
23:21Voters,
23:22therefore,
23:23must decide
23:24between two fundamentally
23:25different futures.
23:26So,
23:28Zikrit,
23:28these very pessimistic
23:29predictions
23:30about a potential
23:32victory
23:33of Simeon,
23:34are they accurate
23:36or scaremongering?
23:38Look,
23:38Mr. Simeon,
23:40the candidate
23:40who won the first round
23:41of Romania's
23:42presidential election
23:43is a populist,
23:44he's a radical candidate,
23:46he's an extremist,
23:47and he's an anti-European
23:48candidate.
23:49He's not a conservative
23:50politician
23:51that one
23:52can do business
23:53in a pro-European
23:54spirit.
23:55Afterwards,
23:56he would be
23:56a problem maker.
23:57For Romania,
23:58the president
23:59of the country
23:59sits in the
24:00European Council.
24:01As of day one,
24:02Viktor Orban
24:03would have
24:03an additional ally.
24:05That would be
24:05bad news for Europe,
24:07bad news for Ukraine.
24:08Romania has been
24:09a keen supporter
24:10of Ukraine,
24:11and also,
24:12due to its
24:12geographical position,
24:14it is essential
24:15for providing
24:16support to Ukraine.
24:18So,
24:18it's essential
24:19not only to continue
24:20the development
24:20of Romania,
24:21but also to preserve
24:22the unity
24:24within the
24:25European Union
24:26that the
24:26pro-European
24:27candidate is
24:28winning,
24:28and that the
24:28extremists be
24:29defeated.
24:30Anna,
24:30a Simeon victory
24:32would definitely
24:32expand the
24:33group of
24:35Eurosceptic
24:36prime ministers,
24:39Viktor Orban,
24:40Fyzo,
24:41Rod Fyzo,
24:42etc.
24:43But,
24:44let me ask,
24:45in a brutally
24:45honest fashion,
24:46do Hungary,
24:48Slovakia,
24:49and Romania
24:50carry that much
24:51weight in the EU
24:52that this matters?
24:53Of course,
24:54every single
24:55country matters
24:56in the EU,
24:57and as you
24:58just said,
24:58this has
24:59repercussions
25:00even beyond
25:01the European
25:01Union,
25:02because this is
25:02a question of
25:03do we support
25:04Ukraine?
25:05This is a question
25:06of are we
25:08strict with
25:09Russia?
25:09Do we sanction
25:10Russia for what
25:11they're doing
25:12in Ukraine?
25:13But let's look
25:14a little bit
25:15beyond,
25:15or maybe even
25:16closer,
25:17at Simeon
25:18and what he
25:18stands for
25:19and who he
25:19is.
25:20this is a
25:21person,
25:22a potential
25:23European leader
25:24who openly
25:25has called
25:25for a greater
25:26Romania,
25:28who has openly
25:29called for
25:29annexing parts
25:31of other
25:31countries,
25:32openly called
25:33against the
25:34international law.
25:35We cannot
25:36accept having
25:37a European
25:38Union leader
25:39openly being
25:41ready to
25:42defy the
25:43entire
25:43international
25:44order and
25:45potentially wanting
25:46to annex other
25:47countries.
25:48We have to be
25:48very clear
25:49what we're
25:50dealing with
25:50here.
25:51He himself,
25:52Damien,
25:53said that he
25:54doesn't want to
25:54be a disruptor
25:55but a reformer.
25:57So kind of
25:58more Maloney
25:59rather than
26:01Orban.
26:01What do you
26:02think?
26:02Look, it's
26:03difficult for me
26:04to assess his
26:05exact impact
26:06now versus
26:07his past
26:08statements.
26:08I think what
26:09Anna and
26:09Siegfried have
26:10said very
26:10clearly is that
26:11we have the
26:12risk of
26:12disintegrating
26:13forces in
26:13Europe to
26:14become stronger
26:15and stronger
26:15and to have
26:16already three,
26:17maybe four,
26:18you can argue,
26:19people in the
26:20European Council
26:20that really do
26:22not believe in
26:22the current
26:23European Union
26:23with democracy,
26:24freedom of the
26:25media,
26:26free judges.
26:27I mean,
26:27this is really
26:28a dangerous
26:29precedent and
26:30it allows Putin
26:31to have more
26:31and more influence
26:32and I think
26:32what it also
26:33shows is that
26:33we have been
26:34naĂŻve,
26:35quite naĂŻve
26:35about how
26:36social media
26:36functions in
26:37general but
26:38also how it
26:39is manipulated
26:39and I think
26:40there is
26:40something for
26:41us here also
26:42in Europe
26:42and Brussels
26:43and StraĂźburg
26:44to do
26:44to really wake
26:45up and see
26:46are our current
26:47rules good
26:47enough to fight
26:49off the
26:49polarisation,
26:50the extremist
26:51influence that
26:52are really
26:52taking over
26:53more parts of
26:54our societies
26:54as we speak.
26:55Siegfried,
26:56we know that
26:58he's anti-European,
26:59you described it,
27:00he's also against
27:01aid for Ukraine.
27:04Is this enough
27:06to carry him
27:06to victory?
27:07Is there a majority
27:08of Romanians
27:09who want an
27:10anti-European
27:11candidate,
27:12Prime Minister?
27:13By the way,
27:14he's banned
27:15from entering
27:15Ukraine and
27:16the Republic
27:17of Moldova
27:17to Romania's
27:18neighbouring
27:19countries for
27:19having met
27:20Russian agents
27:21on Ukrainian
27:22territory in
27:22the past,
27:23so he's someone
27:24who directly
27:25and indirectly
27:26would support
27:27the interests
27:28of autocrats
27:29of the Russian
27:29Federation
27:30against our
27:31interests.
27:32Firstly,
27:32secondly,
27:33the Romanian
27:33people have
27:34been very
27:35pro-European.
27:36As of the
27:36last,
27:37according to
27:37the last
27:38Eurobarometer,
27:3878% of the
27:40people of Romania
27:41believe that
27:42EU membership
27:42is a good
27:43thing.
27:44So Simeon
27:45is an
27:46anti-European
27:46candidate,
27:47but he's also
27:48an anti-establishment
27:49candidate.
27:50We had a
27:50grand coalition
27:51of the two
27:52largest parties
27:53governing Romania
27:54for the past
27:55four years
27:55throughout several
27:57crises.
27:58War in Ukraine,
27:58high energy
27:59prices,
28:00high inflation,
28:01not always
28:02reforming the
28:02country,
28:03managing it,
28:04but not always
28:04reforming it,
28:05really bringing
28:06it forward.
28:06So this is
28:07also a bit
28:08of a protest
28:08vote against
28:10the established
28:10parties.
28:11He is
28:11anti-European,
28:12but not all
28:13of his voters
28:14are anti-European.
28:16And this is why
28:16we need to
28:17explain to the
28:18people why
28:19he would be
28:20a president
28:20isolating the
28:21country,
28:22endangering the
28:23economic development
28:24of the country,
28:25and not really
28:26fulfilling their
28:27expectation.
28:27Because some of
28:28the people say,
28:29look, we are
28:29pro-European,
28:30but we're
28:30disappointed by
28:31established parties.
28:32We want
28:32something new.
28:33He would not
28:34bring us forward,
28:35as people hope.
28:36He would bring us
28:36backwards, and
28:37Romania would lose
28:38much of what it
28:39has achieved
28:40over the past
28:4035 years.
28:41Nico Chordan,
28:42who is also not
28:43establishment,
28:44right, the mayor
28:44of Bucharest,
28:45independent.
28:47How should he
28:48finish the
28:50remaining days
28:52of the campaign?
28:53I mean,
28:53stressing this,
28:55what you just
28:55said, the pro-European
28:57accomplishments?
28:59Absolutely.
29:00I think he should
29:00tell to the people
29:01of Romania that,
29:02look, George Simeon
29:03wouldn't be an
29:03experiment that we
29:05can, you know,
29:07rewind or change
29:08or take back
29:09two, three months
29:09later.
29:10George Simeon
29:11would affect the
29:13rule of law,
29:14would weaken
29:14independent institutions
29:16as of day one,
29:17and it would be a
29:19long-term choice
29:20for the country.
29:21He needs to set
29:22the bar very high,
29:23explain to the
29:23people what the
29:24dangers are.
29:25Great.
29:26Thank you so much.
29:27As always,
29:28check out the
29:28latest on the
29:29presidential election
29:30in Romania in our
29:31programs on our
29:32various platforms.
29:33For now,
29:33many thanks to
29:34our guests and
29:35to our viewers.
29:36Join us again on
29:37Euronews.
29:46Welcome to
29:47Brussels, my love.
29:48I'm Stefan Grobe,
29:49and I'm here with
29:50my guest Siegfried
29:51Morijan from the
29:52EPP, Anna Sturck from
29:53Renew, and Damian
29:54Böselager from the
29:55Greens, all members
29:57of the European
29:57Parliament.
29:59Suddenly, everything
30:00went dark.
30:01Last week, Spain,
30:02Portugal, and parts
30:03of France experienced
30:04a massive power
30:05outage.
30:06Traffic lights
30:07failed, elevators
30:08stopped, electronic
30:09payments broke down,
30:11and across cities,
30:12people stepped in to
30:13help one another.
30:15The blackout was
30:16likely triggered by
30:17technical issues,
30:18although the exact
30:19cause remains unclear.
30:22Anna, when you
30:22first heard about it,
30:24what was your
30:24thinking?
30:26Well, first of all,
30:28I've been working on
30:29electricity grids for
30:30the last few months.
30:32We're working on a
30:33position from the
30:33European Parliament,
30:35and so for me, in a
30:38way, you know, it felt
30:40very close to home, and
30:42very close to what I've
30:43been working on, and
30:44what we were fearing
30:46could happen.
30:47Of course, as you said,
30:48we still don't know
30:49exactly what happened,
30:50and I don't think this
30:50is the room for us to
30:52speculate about this.
30:53But what we know, and
30:54what certainly didn't
30:55help the situation, is
30:56that we currently have
30:58electricity grids
30:59throughout Europe that
31:00aren't meeting the
31:03challenges that our
31:05energy transition is
31:06posing to those grids,
31:08because unfortunately,
31:09we haven't been
31:11spending enough money
31:11on them, we haven't
31:12been giving them enough
31:13attention over the last
31:14few years.
31:15So really, I think this
31:17is a wake-up call to us
31:18to see that if we want
31:19a successful energy
31:20transition, then we
31:21cannot only focus on
31:23the generation side
31:24of it, but we
31:25actually also have to
31:26focus on the question
31:27of storage, energy
31:29storage, and especially
31:31the question of
31:32electricity grids.
31:33But also, if I can
31:34say, there is a
31:36positive, there is a
31:36silver lining in this
31:37story, and that is
31:38that actually we have
31:40seen now that the
31:42interconnection between
31:43European countries
31:44supports our countries,
31:46meaning that the fact
31:48that relatively quickly
31:50Spain and Portugal
31:51could come back
31:52onto the grid was
31:55helped by France.
31:56This could not have
31:57been possible if we
31:58didn't have
31:58interconnected.
31:59So really, this is an
32:00advertisement for the
32:01European Energy Union.
32:03I think we tended to
32:04file blackouts in the
32:07miscellaneous category.
32:10I remember really, when I
32:11was a kid, in 1977, there
32:13was a blackout in New York,
32:14and people were kind of
32:15smiling when nine months
32:16later there were more
32:17babies being born than
32:19usual.
32:20But today, everybody knows
32:23that this is that
32:23serious, right?
32:26Can we be kind of
32:28relieved that probably it
32:31wasn't a cyber attack and
32:32it wasn't a terrorist
32:33attack, et cetera, et
32:33cetera, so it was really
32:34a technical issue.
32:35Is that already some good
32:37news here?
32:38Damien?
32:39So, first of all, I
32:40think it's an interesting
32:41idea to combine the
32:43electricity portfolio with
32:44a demography portfolio and
32:46maybe find solutions there
32:48for more babies.
32:49But in general, look, I
32:51think there's a couple of
32:52learnings from it.
32:53The first one, as Anna
32:54said, is that energy grid
32:55stability is a super
32:57important issue that might
32:58need more attention.
32:59I think also when it comes
33:00to the interconnectedness,
33:01there's positive examples,
33:04but it's also true that
33:05without Morocco's input,
33:06there wouldn't have been
33:08a stabilization and maybe
33:09further integration of the
33:10European grid can be
33:11helpful.
33:12I think it's also clear that
33:13we need maybe two, maybe
33:14three times the current
33:15grid capacity if we want
33:16to electrify all the
33:18things that we need to
33:19electrify to become
33:20climate neutral, which is
33:21our goal.
33:22Even though people seem to
33:24question this, this is
33:25still our goal.
33:26So energy is a critical
33:27infrastructure.
33:28There is clearly a risk
33:30that we can now see more
33:32clearly.
33:33And I think it's important
33:34that we also look at it
33:36from a hacking perspective,
33:37that we look at it from a
33:38security perspective, that
33:39these things can't happen
33:41anymore.
33:41Well, the concern, of
33:42course, is that such a
33:43blackout could happen again.
33:45It is a real risk.
33:46And how can we protect
33:48ourselves?
33:48We spoke about this with
33:50Alberic Mongrenier, an
33:51expert at the European
33:52Energy Security Initiative.
33:54Here's what he told us.
33:56These things can happen
33:57again, right, for a number
33:59of reasons.
33:59So this is not the first
34:01large power outage in the
34:03recent history of the
34:06developed world.
34:07The main lesson from this
34:09outage is you obviously
34:11need, you know, civilian
34:12preparedness on top of
34:12that.
34:13But we need to try and
34:15prevent these things from
34:15happening as much as
34:16possible.
34:17And in order to do this,
34:18we need to invest now in
34:20the grids, in our
34:21production system, on, you
34:23know, in the supply chains
34:24that support this.
34:26And because the costs of
34:28inactions are very high,
34:29both for the economy, but
34:31also for, you know, society
34:33and security in general.
34:34Security mentioned a
34:35civilian preparedness.
34:36And a few weeks ago, we
34:38had this discussion here
34:39when the EU Commission
34:40suggested that each
34:42citizen should have a sort
34:43of survival kit at home
34:44for all kinds of crises.
34:46And many people took it
34:47lightly, let's put it this
34:49way.
34:49But now we see, you know,
34:51this could be really
34:52serious.
34:52This can happen.
34:53I happened to be in
34:54Spain on the day of the
34:55blackout.
34:55So what did it feel there?
34:57It was during the afternoon.
34:59There was no communication,
35:00no Internet, no Wi-Fi, no
35:02trains, no undergrounds,
35:04no card payments, all of
35:06the things that we take
35:07for granted that are part
35:08of our day-to-day life.
35:09Where were you?
35:10What were you doing when
35:11this, the moment it
35:12happened?
35:13I was supposed to go into
35:14a meeting where we were
35:15supposed to have
35:16translation from one
35:17language into another,
35:18and we were told there
35:19was no translation because
35:20there was no electricity.
35:22And had there not been
35:23daylight, the meeting
35:24would have been canceled.
35:25So some hours during
35:26daylight, it worked.
35:27But, you know, if it takes
35:29some more hours into the
35:30night, there's risk of
35:32criminality and so on.
35:34So this is severe, and we
35:36have to be ready for this.
35:38We have to understand we're
35:39all together in this.
35:40We have to be ready to
35:41support each other in Europe.
35:42This is why connecting
35:43ourselves is so important.
35:45But for individual
35:46citizens, yes, a
35:47preparedness kit because
35:49risks exist, dangers
35:51exist.
35:52Autocrats around Europe
35:53might, you know, feel
35:54encouraged to attack us in
35:56the one way or the other.
35:57On the day of the
35:58blackout, you know, I was
35:59looking for a colleague
36:00who had a charger for my
36:01telephone because otherwise
36:03I wouldn't have been
36:04able to charge it.
36:05So be prepared and be able
36:07to take care of yourself
36:09for two, three days in case
36:11that you know you're
36:12disconnected from the rest
36:14of the world.
36:14Do have some cash.
36:15Do have some water.
36:17Do have some food.
36:18Make sure that you can stay
36:19in touch with the rest of
36:20the world.
36:21For the case of any attack,
36:22any blackout, any natural
36:24catastrophe, this is going
36:26good idea.
36:26Damien, there were many
36:27commentators pointed to the
36:29fact that one of the
36:30reasons could have been
36:31that Spain has a high
36:33percentage of renewable
36:35energy that could have
36:37caused the problem here.
36:38Is this credible?
36:40To be honest, I would have
36:41to look in detail into that.
36:44But I think what Anna also
36:46said already is if we have
36:47enough battery capacity, if
36:49we have ways to somehow get
36:51rid of the lows and the
36:53highs in the energy
36:54production of renewables, I
36:56mean, I think that
36:57shouldn't be the case.
36:57But I would, to be honest,
36:58in this specific case, I'm
36:59not informed enough to make
37:01a judgment.
37:02All right.
37:02Clear answer and honest.
37:04On that point, we can close
37:06the conversation.
37:07Thank you very much.
37:09And thank you for watching.
37:11If you want to reach out,
37:13please send us an email at
37:14Brusselsmylove at
37:15Euronews.com or you can
37:17catch us on social media.
37:19That's it for this edition.
37:20I'm Stefan Grobe.
37:21Have an excellent week.
37:23See you soon here on
37:24Euronews.