Why is New Zealand deepening its defense ties across Asia?
In this episode of Power Talks with Pia Arcangel, Defence Minister Judith Collins outlines the country’s Indo-Pacific strategy.
From its expanding security cooperation with ASEAN nations to the landmark signing of the Status of Visiting Forces Agreement (SOVFA) with the Philippines, Minister Collins shares insights on regional stability, humanitarian missions, and how New Zealand balances defence partnerships with its longstanding commitment to an independent foreign policy.
In this episode of Power Talks with Pia Arcangel, Defence Minister Judith Collins outlines the country’s Indo-Pacific strategy.
From its expanding security cooperation with ASEAN nations to the landmark signing of the Status of Visiting Forces Agreement (SOVFA) with the Philippines, Minister Collins shares insights on regional stability, humanitarian missions, and how New Zealand balances defence partnerships with its longstanding commitment to an independent foreign policy.
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00:00Her visit to the country highlights the importance of the close relationship between the Philippines
00:04and New Zealand. And in her four-day visit, New Zealand Defence Minister Judith Collins
00:09signed a landmark agreement that aims to bolster defence cooperation between the two countries.
00:14Join us as we sit down with New Zealand Defence Minister Collins and delve into the details and
00:19the importance of the partnership between two countries. This is Power Talks with Pia Arcangel.
00:24New Zealand looks to protect and advance our interests in the Indo-Pacific, and we can
00:31only do so alongside partners. It is the human element, the personal connections that we
00:37make, that give us the ability to forge lasting defence relationships. We will continue to
00:44uphold the law of the sea.
00:45Well, I think we can all see that the world is going through a challenging time, and that
00:51we see a lot of geopolitical and strategic competition, particularly in our area. So it is very important
01:00that we stick together, that the rules-based order needs to be enhanced, not denigrated.
01:10Good afternoon, everyone. I am delighted to be here in Manila on my first visit to the Republic
01:17of the Philippines, to sign such an important agreement. The Status of Visiting Forces Agreement
01:23delivers on the commitment made by our leaders last year to strengthen defence engagement and
01:30explore new frameworks for cooperation. This reflects the strength of New Zealand's relationship
01:36with the Philippines, of which defence is a key element. Our militaries already work well
01:42together, and this agreement will create the conditions for even more seamless cooperation
01:48in the defence space. It will ensure we can work hand-in-hand, with ease, particularly when
01:56urgent responses are required, such as if we need to provide support to each other in the
02:02event of a natural disaster. Our two countries also share a region and many common interests, such
02:08as improving maritime security. We expect that bilateral defence activity will increase in
02:15the future, and it is important to have a modern, quality framework to support this.
02:21As New Zealand's Attorney-General, I appreciate a formal legal framework, and as Minister of Defence,
02:28I also know it is my job to ensure that serving personnel have the tools they need to perform
02:35and to achieve their objectives. That's the practical reason why this signing is so important.
02:42The other is a real understanding that the strategic environment that we are operating in is deteriorating.
02:49As a result, we have vowed to step up and play our part working with others in our region.
02:55That commitment was born from the understanding of the risks to the international rules-based order,
03:02and as our Prime Minister has said, New Zealand looks to protect and advance our interests in the Indo-Pacific,
03:10and we can only do so alongside partners. Because what I find as I travel the world discussing international
03:18security issues with counterparts engaging on defence diplomacy is that it is the human element,
03:26the personal connections that we make, that give us the ability to forge lasting defence relationships.
03:33Honourable Minister Judith Collins, thank you so much for sitting down to chat with us.
03:37I was listening earlier to the joint press conference and the statements you were giving,
03:41and you stressed the importance of having a rules-based order or following rules-based order.
03:47It's very important for New Zealand, that as a small nation, that we adhere to the rules-based order,
03:57and for instance, the law of the sea, the UNCLOS law of the sea.
04:02We're a maritime nation like the Philippines. We're a nation that relies on trade routes,
04:09and we have respect for the law of the sea. We have been involved with monitoring and making sure
04:18that the trade routes through the South China Sea and others are kept open,
04:24and we do that because it is in our best interest as a small nation to show that international law matters.
04:32So the Philippines is a partner that we have engaged with over many years.
04:37There is a long-standing engagement, and we have shared in similar values,
04:43particularly when it comes to the law of the sea and the rules-based order.
04:49I was wondering, based on recent events, what is the biggest risk to rules-based order that New Zealand has noted so far,
04:57especially within the region?
04:59I think we can all see that the world is going through a challenging time,
05:04and that we see a lot of geopolitical and strategic competition, particularly in our area.
05:11We're certainly seeing it in Europe, but we're seeing it here too.
05:15So I think one of the greatest risks is if countries like ourselves, that are not the greatest powers in the world,
05:25is if we abandon the rules-based order and we stop believing, as we've seen over the last 70 years,
05:33that the rules-based order actually works for law-abiding countries that are trying their very best to be good citizens and good neighbours.
05:42So it is very important that we stick together, as we would say, that we support each other,
05:49and that we demand and state that the rules-based order needs to be enhanced, not denigrated.
05:57Is this what you refer to as being good global citizens?
06:01Well, we are good global citizens, and I think most people in New Zealand would want to feel that we are good global citizens.
06:07And we see that, from our point of view, we're a small nation in terms of population.
06:13We have a very large maritime area. We have a large economic, exclusive economic zone, as does the Philippines.
06:21We have the fourth largest search and rescue area to look after, maintain, protect and act in.
06:30But we have the ninth largest EEZ. We are a country that maintains a level of commitment to peace and security that requires us to step up and do more.
06:43And that's what we're doing. So it is important that we don't just rely on one or two others, that we actually all pull our weight.
06:53The world is, as you know, in a challenging place at the moment.
06:57There's a lot of geostrategic competition going on, particularly in Southeast Asia and the Pacific generally.
07:05And we see ourselves as very much a Pacific nation that is located in a part of the world that we would like to keep peaceful.
07:13We have a long history of being involved in Southeast Asia. I think to our efforts in Borneo, our efforts in the Malay emergency, our efforts in Singapore, helping Singapore with its independence.
07:31So we have a long history there. We've also been in Vietnam. We've been in all sorts of places. We're involved at the moment and have been for many years in demining in Laos or Lao PDR.
07:44So we are very committed to this. We're working closely with Japan. We have been involved for a long time with the Republic of Korea.
07:53We are the second largest country in terms of contribution to the UN's commission in the demilitarized zones. We're the second largest to the US and have been for a very, very long time.
08:09So we are part of the region. We play a very important role, I believe, of just standing up for what we believe is right, and understanding that the law of the sea, but also the rules-based order, is something that benefits other maritime nations like ourselves,
08:29and that it is in our best interest to maintain that responsibility and that relationship. We were involved with Australia in the East Timor situation in the late 1990s.
08:42And Timor-Leste, as it is now, is actually one of the countries with which we have a SOFA agreement as well. We're long standing and we're not going away.
08:55At this point, has New Zealand been able to pinpoint any particular threat, maybe a party or an event that poses a particular threat to rules-based order?
09:06Well, we certainly see this in the cyberspace. So I am the minister for our national security agencies, our NZSIS and our GCSB, our signals directorate.
09:19We are under a lot of attack, and New Zealand businesses as well as government agencies, and we have called that out when we can prove from time to time we've been able to call it out absolutely as to what is happening.
09:35So we shouldn't underestimate that. We see, you know, our largest trading partner is China. I'm sure it's probably Philippines' largest trading partner. Our second largest trading partner is the United States. Our third is Australia.
09:50So we are people who are actively involved in the world, actively trading very large global citizens. And it is very difficult when we have to deal with cyber threats and others of that nature.
10:05We also have, obviously, threats around people smuggling, around transnational crime, particularly in the Pacific. The Pacific is an area where there is a big movement of very serious drugs and people smuggling.
10:22Those are the sorts of things that New Zealand Defence Force is called upon to help with. So those are serious threats for us as well. And then we just see the general geostrategic situation and particularly the competition for what we can see around critical minerals and being in the ring of fire like the Philippines is.
10:43There's a lot of critical minerals wherever there are volcanoes.
10:48Would you say that it's very important to make sure that the focus is not just on, let's say, military threats or geopolitical threats, you know, threats like these, but also on cyber threats?
11:00Because maybe if we're too focused on one, then we might be opening ourselves up to attack on another part.
11:06Well, I think you're quite right. There's also the issues around the weather events, the climate issues, the natural disasters like volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, all of which the Philippines and New Zealand are subject to.
11:18So those are all very important and we need to be prepared for that. And when these things happen, we call on the New Zealand Defence Force to come and help us.
11:27Certainly in New Zealand we do. And we do the same in other Pacific nations, wherever we are invited and asked to come in and we can help.
11:36But yes, we have other issues. We need to be very aware that cyber, which was not an issue maybe 20 years ago, to the extent it is now a daily issue for us.
11:48And I'm sure the Philippines has exactly the same situation. So whether it's in the commercial space, whether it's around critical infrastructure, it's vulnerabilities, it's ransomware, it's all this sort of thing happening.
12:01And we need to be very aware of it. These are national security issues.
12:06Is there any impact on the relationship between your government and the government of China when you ally or strengthen partnerships with countries like the Philippines,
12:15where there is a clear tension between China and the Philippines when it comes to the South China Sea?
12:20Well, how China responds is China's. They need to answer for that, not me.
12:25And I think in New Zealand we have a very principled approach.
12:28We look to what we believe is in the best interests of New Zealand and what we believe is in the best interests of the rules-based order.
12:36And we respect territorial boundaries. We don't do anything to disrespect other people's areas.
12:43We respect the law of the sea. And in terms of China, we have a very good relationship with China, as I'm sure the Philippines does too.
12:53The fact is, the relationship is a very mature relationship. We let China know when we are unhappy about something it has done.
13:02For instance, the intercontinental ballistic missile that it shot across the Pacific in October last year, for the first time in 44 years.
13:11We certainly make our views known, but we do so in a respectful and predictable manner.
13:16And we expect that our relationship with China, which goes back a very long way, is something that I think we recognised China in the early 1970s.
13:29That is mutual, that we understand we don't always agree.
13:34We have an independent foreign policy as does the Philippines. Every country in the world has independent foreign policy.
13:41And I think it's really important to understand that we have to always look to the best interests of our people.
13:50And so in New Zealand, our independent foreign policy is that we make the best decisions that we can, based on what we know, for New Zealand.
13:59And also, obviously, in partnership with our friends.
14:04The United States and New Zealand has a very long history of working together in the military.
14:09We are part of the Five Eyes Agreement, which is an intelligence sharing arrangement, and we have been since the late 1940s.
14:16So it should be no surprise to anybody that for many years we have engaged actively with the U.S. military and we work very closely with Australia, who is our only formal ally.
14:29So I don't know why anyone would be surprised. We've been working like that for 70 years.
14:35We'll probably expect to do so for the next 70 years.
14:38When shaping defence policies, public opinion really does play a role. It's inevitable that it somehow influences as well defence policies of different governments and countries.
14:50How does the New Zealand government communicate its defence policies with its people?
14:56Yes, it's a really good point, because as you know, rightly, that when the New Zealand taxpayer is paying for a big increase in defence spending, as it is now, it means that there is not money for something else.
15:10Well, I think we just tell people the truth. We just tell them the world is not what they hoped it wanted to be.
15:17It's not what we all thought in 1990, when the Berlin Wall had already fallen, that peace had broken out and everyone was just going to trade to happiness.
15:28And that we've seen from Russia's illegal and unwarranted and immoral invasion of Ukraine, that might is right, that cannot be allowed to win.
15:41We have to be able to stand up for things that we believe in and our principles.
15:45I think the New Zealand public is very aware that the world has changed.
15:49And I think, too, is that the more that we tell them the truth about things and the challenges we come across and we have to deal with,
15:57whether it's cyber security or whether it's anything else, that they can see that we have to step up.
16:04New Zealanders want to always be good global citizens and we don't want to be relying on the taxpayers of other countries if we're not prepared to do it ourselves.
16:14This is your first visit to the Philippines. How are you finding your visit so far?
16:19Look, I'm having the most wonderful time. If you don't watch out, I might come and stay here.
16:23Well, we wouldn't mind.
16:26No, I'm having a lovely time and everyone's been so nice. And I've met the Secretary of Defence a few times already at our various international fora that we attend together.
16:38So it's so nice to come here finally and to certainly sample wonderful hospitality from the Philippines.
16:47And also, I'm so happy because I've got a colleague from, or two colleagues in Parliament, in New Zealand's Parliament from the Philippines born here.
16:55And I want to be able to go back and tell them what a wonderful time I've had.
16:59Thank you so much, Madam Minister. I'm looking forward to your next visit.
17:02Thank you very much. Nice to meet you.
17:04Thanks for watching. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and download PowerTalks with PR Kanghel on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, GMA Integrated News streaming platforms, or wherever you listen.
17:14Till the next episode!