The government on Wednesday surprised everyone after it announced that the caste census would be included in the next national census exercise in a "transparent manner".
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00:00Well, welcome. You're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhry.
00:03We were just about a few days ago, the government was to make a big announcement.
00:07India waited with bated breath because most of us thought that this announcement would be military retribution,
00:12where the Pehalgaam terror attacks were concerned.
00:15It was a big announcement, but it had nothing to do with retaliatory measures on Pakistan.
00:20It had everything to do with one of the most politically contentious issues, caste census.
00:25The government has decided they will go ahead with a caste census.
00:29The larger political reading, it is a U-turn by the government.
00:33Two questions. Has the government checkmated the opposition and taken away its biggest pole plank?
00:38Or on the contrary, has the government caved under political pressure,
00:42playing now on the opposition's political pitch?
00:46And in midst of it, how will the BJP politically manoeuvre this move?
00:52Straddle both Mandal and Kamandal.
00:55Take care.
00:59Just a day after the Narendra Modi government announced caste enumeration as part of the upcoming nationwide census,
01:11the BJP and opposition are locked in a fight to take credit for the decision.
01:15While the Congress described the government's move as a victory for Rahul Gandhi,
01:21who had made caste census the cornerstone of his Lok Sabha election campaign,
01:26the BJP called past Congress leaders anti-reservation.
01:45He was not born at that time, that's why he is telling like that.
02:01By birth, the RSS is against reservation.
02:05The decision to hold caste census comes months ahead of assembly polls in Bihar.
02:12The BJP, which used Hindutva to build a base in the state,
02:16now adds mandal to its mandir formula with a new bid at social engineering.
02:20The Congress claimed removing quota limit is the real issue in Bihar.
02:27Pradhan Mantri is going to Bihar now.
02:29He says anything, taking it to Arakshan,
02:31and taking it to Arakshan,
02:32and taking it to Arakshan,
02:33and taking it to Arakshan is not going to be a place in Bihar,
02:38until 50% of the sema will not be removed.
02:40OBC leaders in North India who wrote the mandal wave to power
02:46have joined the race to claim credit for caste censors.
02:49OBC leaders in Bihar.
03:19In the war, this is an absolute victory of the PDA's victory.
03:25The government has a great victory.
03:29The government's victory will be saved by thinking.
03:34Now with the Modi government announcing caste census,
03:38the question that follows is,
03:40will the 50% reservation ceiling be breached once the population count is done?
03:45Bureau Report, India Today.
03:47All right, viewers, so there's one side that actually feels
03:51that by announcing that the government will hold a caste census,
03:54it's taken out the sting of the opposition's poll plan.
03:59In the near future, the Bihar elections in long term,
04:02because if the caste census takes place with the national census,
04:05which in all probability will take place 26, 27,
04:09then in a long-term fashion,
04:11taken the sting out of the opposition's poll plan
04:14going into the Lok Sabha elections.
04:17coming in later.
04:18On the other hand, what really brought about the U-turn
04:21of the government to finally conduct a caste survey?
04:26And will the BJP be able to straddle mandal and the commandal
04:30when it comes down to Indian politics?
04:32Let's take all these questions to our panelists this evening.
04:37Joining me, Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson, BJP,
04:40Mahima Singh, National Spokesperson, Congress,
04:42Ranjad Sethi, Political Commentator,
04:45Ashutosh, Political Analyst,
04:46Amitabh Dewari, Author and Analyst.
04:49Each of you will get a two-minute window to make your first submissions,
04:52and then we'll hopefully get in a lot more elements coming in,
04:57and we'll go one by one.
04:58But, Sanju Verma, you know, if you look at the chronology,
05:01it seems to be a long walk from it is a concept of the urban naxels
05:06to a historic decision.
05:10You know, Preeti, first and foremost,
05:12let me say one thing very categorically.
05:15An idea is only as great as its execution.
05:18You know, you can build flaky castles in the air,
05:20but if you cannot marry grand vision with seamless execution,
05:25that idea is worth nothing.
05:26And I applaud Prime Minister Narendra Modi unconditionally
05:29and unequivocally, as a bona fide citizen,
05:32and not merely as the National Spokesperson of BJP,
05:35that we are finally going to have a cast census.
05:38It will be brought to fruition.
05:40What happened in the past, I'm not going to dwell on it,
05:42because if we have to go into the past,
05:45then let's not forget, Preeti,
05:47that on the 6th of September, 1990,
05:50Rahul Gandhi's father, Rajiv Gandhi,
05:52on the floor of the Lok Sabha said
05:54that a cast census is divisive, communal, and polarizing.
05:58And Rahul Gandhi's grandmother, Indira Gandhi,
06:01after winning the Chikmagyut by-election in 1978,
06:04said,
06:05clearly denouncing any form of cast census.
06:12So first and foremost, let's get this very clear
06:14that under Article 246 of the Constitution,
06:17you know, Act No. 69,
06:20cast census is the prerogative of the central government
06:23as per the 7th schedule of the Constitution,
06:25and we are going to go ahead with it.
06:27Don't forget that the cast census
06:29that was, you know, undertaken in 2011
06:32was a sham, a hoax,
06:34by the then erstwhile Congress dispensation.
06:37There was no clear methodology.
06:39The questions were filtered in some cases,
06:42unfiltered in some others.
06:44There was no standardized format.
06:47And, you know, Manmohan Singh on the floor of the parliament
06:49has admitted that, you know,
06:52the SECC of 2011
06:53did not achieve the desired results.
06:57And I'm sure that in the case of Prime Minister Narendra Modi,
07:00when we go ahead with the cast census,
07:02we are actually going to give wings
07:04to the Prime Minister's concept of
07:07Sabka Fah, Sabka Vikas,
07:09Sabka Vishwa, and Sabka Prayas
07:11in every sense of the term.
07:13Your time is up, ma'am,
07:14but, you know, you talked about the ideas
07:16as good as its execution,
07:17but the idea, till not very long ago,
07:20was an idea of urban naxals.
07:22And now it's a historic idea.
07:24I just wanted to bring in, you know,
07:25both the parallels there.
07:27But you gave the chronology of a dateline.
07:29I'll circle back to you with another chronology.
07:31And I want to bring in before that
07:32Mahima Singh of the Congress Party.
07:35Mahima Singh, the fact is,
07:36yesterday it seemed that the Congress
07:37was taken with full surprise.
07:39It does, in, you know,
07:41looking at it at a micro level,
07:44you have Bihar elections coming in
07:45at a larger level,
07:47you know, the next Lok Sabha elections.
07:49It's practically taken the sting
07:51out of your campaign,
07:52which you were building brick by brick
07:54ever since 2023.
07:55And you did immediately face,
07:57also, you know,
07:59the fruits of it,
08:00especially in Uttar Pradesh,
08:02where it did seem mandal,
08:03did Trump come mandal?
08:08Jai Hind, Preeti,
08:10this is a cause,
08:11the caste census is a cause
08:13that the Honorable Leader of Opposition,
08:16Sri Rahul Gandhi,
08:17has championed for the longest time.
08:19And finally,
08:20it is intriguing,
08:21and it is good
08:22to see the BJP
08:24playing on Congress's pitch,
08:26yet again,
08:26after they stole ideas
08:29from our manifesto
08:30for good
08:31and executed them
08:32or not,
08:33that is a matter of analysis.
08:35But it is good
08:36to see the BJP spokespersons
08:38blowing hot and cold.
08:39It is good to see
08:40that the BJP
08:41is finally coming to terms
08:42with,
08:43at least even if it is
08:44for the optics,
08:46coming to terms
08:47with the constitutional values.
08:49Now, finally,
08:51we will have
08:52the right answers
08:54from them
08:54when the right questions
08:55are raised.
08:56Just like Jairam Rameshji
08:58said yesterday,
08:59earlier today
09:00in his press conference,
09:01when he said
09:02that Mr. Narendra Modi
09:03is a champion,
09:05is a master
09:05of giving headlines
09:07without deadlines.
09:08Now,
09:08we want to know
09:09what is the roadmap.
09:10We don't want to see
09:11this hanging in shadows
09:13just like
09:14the Women's Reservation Bill.
09:16We want to know
09:17what is the roadmap.
09:18The caste census
09:19is already delayed
09:20for six years.
09:22In 2019,
09:23after the Union Cabinet meeting,
09:25a press release
09:26was brought out
09:27and a figure
09:29of 8254 crores
09:31when the caste enumeration
09:33was not a factor included,
09:35was dedicated
09:36for this task.
09:38Now,
09:38this year,
09:39the Census Commissioner's Office
09:42has been allocated
09:43a budget
09:44of nearly 575 crores.
09:47So,
09:47it will be good
09:48if the government
09:49states its intentions
09:50clearly
09:51and comes out
09:52with a roadmap
09:53and shares it
09:54with the nation.
09:55Unlike the questions
09:56on national security
09:57where they hide behind
09:59national security
10:01and they say
10:01we cannot speak openly.
10:03We also want to know
10:03what stops them
10:04from removing the cap
10:06of 50% in reservations.
10:08Ma'am,
10:08your time is up.
10:09I'll circle back to you.
10:10I want to bring in
10:11Rajat Sethi
10:11into this conversation.
10:12Rajat Sethi,
10:13the fact is very clear.
10:15Legally speaking,
10:16the government
10:16in 2021
10:17in its affidavit
10:18made it very clear
10:19that they were opposed
10:19to a caste census.
10:21Political commentary
10:22in early 2023
10:23to late 2023
10:25again seemed to suggest
10:26that the government
10:26felt that a caste census
10:28would only divide
10:29the country further
10:30on caste lines.
10:31Something changed
10:32and many say
10:33it was feedback
10:33from the RSS.
10:35The RSS embarked
10:36on an outreach campaign
10:38and apparently
10:39circled back
10:40to the government
10:41and said
10:41you need to do this
10:43and you need to do it now.
10:44And it was feedback
10:45that actually
10:46in a way
10:47the BJP
10:48was very quick
10:49to learn and unlearn.
10:52So,
10:53well,
10:53I'll start off
10:54with the first phrase
10:55that you used
10:56that BJP
10:57has taken the sting
10:58out of the opposition.
11:00In my understanding
11:01there was no sting
11:02and this was proven
11:04by the recent victories
11:05across,
11:06you know,
11:08India.
11:08Multiple states
11:09went into election
11:10and this was pretty clear
11:11that no matter
11:12how much
11:13you want to hoodwink
11:14the people
11:15the opposition
11:15will not succeed.
11:16At one time
11:17they might
11:17and in others
11:18they will certainly fail.
11:20Another point
11:21is that the devil
11:21lies in the detail.
11:22Congress had done
11:23this exercise
11:24and we remember
11:25what Chidambaram
11:25when he was the
11:26home minister
11:27remarked about
11:27the caste census
11:28and Congress
11:29never walked
11:30the entire talk
11:31and we have been
11:31pointing this out
11:32over and over again.
11:33They tried doing
11:34something in Telangana,
11:35they tried doing
11:35something in Karnataka,
11:36everything fell flat.
11:38And this was the reason
11:39why the apprehension
11:40was coming in.
11:41What do you stand to gain?
11:42What is the end game
11:43in this whole thing?
11:44And a lot of supporters
11:45of the BJP
11:46still are asking
11:47this question
11:48that if the BJP
11:49is doing,
11:50it cannot be taken
11:51in the face itself
11:52because Congress
11:52and the others
11:53have still not given
11:54a legitimate
11:55sort of a thesis
11:57around which
11:58what is their end game
11:59through this business
11:59and falling into
12:00their game
12:01is not what
12:01Prime Minister Modi
12:02stands for.
12:03He stands for
12:04strong, decisive leadership
12:05and I believe
12:06this is where
12:06I think the BJP supporters
12:08on national media
12:09are also asking
12:10the question.
12:11Forget about timing.
12:12Timings,
12:12I mean,
12:12I am principally
12:13against this question
12:14that let us question
12:16the timing.
12:16I am more about
12:17let us question
12:18the thesis.
12:19I am not in support
12:20of it because
12:21this clearly
12:22is a divisive line.
12:23if you want to
12:24do social justice
12:26and do affirmative action
12:27there are other
12:28positive ways
12:29of doing that.
12:30The positive ways
12:31are that how do
12:32I elevate economically
12:33all the
12:34underprivileged classes
12:36and bring them
12:37to a level
12:37so that they can
12:38compete on merit.
12:39The other hand,
12:40Rahul Gandhi comes
12:40with a perverse idea
12:41that the merit
12:42as a concept
12:43is wrong.
12:44The entire
12:44countries
12:46who are superpowers
12:47today,
12:47including America,
12:48China,
12:49they have stood up
12:50on shoulders
12:50of merit
12:51and merit alone.
12:52And this leader
12:53who himself
12:54is an antithesis
12:55to merit.
12:56I thought this
12:57is a post-merit.
12:57Your time is up
12:58but Rajat,
12:59I'd give you that
13:00because you've been
13:00on multiple debates
13:01on the caste census
13:02with me
13:03and every time
13:03you've taken
13:04a contrarian view.
13:05Well,
13:05you do so today
13:06as well.
13:06So has Sanju Verma
13:07but that's the beauty
13:08of being a political
13:09spokesperson.
13:10And sometimes
13:12you've got to
13:13defend your party
13:14position.
13:15But I would bring
13:16in Ashutosh now.
13:18Ashutosh,
13:19the sheer fact,
13:20the fact is
13:21the Bharatiya Janata
13:22party might have
13:23been opposed to it,
13:24the government
13:24might have been
13:24opposed to it.
13:25That meeting
13:26which one thought
13:26that the Prime
13:27Minister had
13:28at the Seven
13:29Lok Kalyan Marg
13:30at his residence
13:31with the chief
13:32of the RSS
13:32Mohan Bhagwat
13:33had to do
13:34with retribution
13:35where Pehalgaam
13:36was concerned
13:37but clearly
13:38it was the caste census.
13:39The government
13:40took immediate feedback
13:41because at the back
13:42of the RSS
13:43carrying out
13:44a nationwide outreach
13:45seemingly coming back
13:47with the feedback
13:47that politically
13:48this is important
13:49for you
13:49and they
13:50immediately
13:50acted on it.
13:53See,
13:53Preeti,
13:54we all remember
13:54on 2nd October
13:562023
13:57when Nittish Kumar
13:58came out
13:59with the caste
14:00survey report
14:01on the same day
14:02Mr. Prime Minister
14:03was in Gwalior
14:04and what he said
14:05in the rally
14:06was that caste
14:07census kind of a thing
14:08is a sin.
14:10It is dangerous
14:10for the country.
14:12And then he went
14:13on to say
14:13that there are
14:14two castes
14:15only,
14:15rich and the poor
14:16and then he extended
14:17to the four castes
14:18in the country.
14:19The issue is not that.
14:20The issue is
14:21why the government
14:22has been pushed
14:24to do this.
14:25This is basically
14:26nothing else
14:27but a damage
14:27control exercise.
14:30And damage control
14:31exercise,
14:31why I am saying so?
14:33Because
14:3452,
14:35more than 50%
14:36OBCs
14:37and the Dalit
14:38they comprise
14:38of almost 70%
14:39and more than 70%
14:41of the population.
14:42If they have been
14:42vociferously
14:43demanding
14:44including Rahul Gandhi,
14:46Tejasvi and Akhilesh Yadau
14:48then sooner or later
14:49BJP had to do this.
14:51The problem
14:52with the BJP
14:53is that they are
14:53always think
14:55and believe
14:55into this
14:56that this caste
14:58system
14:59is basically
15:00the caste
15:01divide
15:01is basically
15:02against
15:03the Hindu
15:04unity project
15:05of the RSS.
15:06That is why
15:06they were too
15:07reluctant to do this
15:08and that is why
15:08Prime Minister
15:09said it's a sin.
15:11But you remember
15:12in Palakkar
15:12when the meeting
15:13was happening
15:13with the RSS
15:14the Sunil
15:14Armbaker
15:15came out
15:15and said
15:16the caste
15:16census should
15:17be done
15:17but only
15:18for the welfare
15:19measure
15:19not for the
15:20politics.
15:21But the issue
15:21is
15:22can they ignore
15:2370% of the
15:24population?
15:25No, they can't.
15:27But now
15:28here is a conundrum.
15:30The conundrum
15:30is
15:31that
15:32with the caste
15:33census
15:34thing
15:35how the
15:37upper caste
15:37will react.
15:38And if you
15:39look at the
15:39social media
15:40platforms
15:41you will
15:41realize
15:41the upper
15:42caste
15:43is hugely
15:44disappointed
15:44disillusioned
15:46and now
15:47they are openly
15:48criticizing.
15:49Can BJP
15:50afford to do
15:51this?
15:52To have a
15:53OBCs and
15:54Dalit with them
15:54and ignore
15:56upper caste?
15:56Ashutosh,
15:57I'll come
15:57back to you.
15:58Let me cut
15:59across to
15:59Amitabh Tiwari
16:00who studies
16:01elections and
16:01especially how
16:02different communities
16:03actually vote.
16:04Amitabh Tiwari,
16:06do you reckon
16:06the caste
16:07census is
16:08a gamble
16:09for the
16:10Modi government?
16:11You know,
16:11formulation of
16:13what possibly
16:13many suggest
16:14is a Modi
16:142.0.
16:15Do you reckon
16:16it's a reform
16:17or do you think
16:18it's clear,
16:19plain,
16:19ballot strategy?
16:22See,
16:22largely if you
16:23see the
16:23objectives are
16:24multifold.
16:26One is of
16:26course a
16:28political objective
16:29to blunt the
16:29narrative of
16:30the opposition
16:31which has been
16:32harping on the
16:33fact that BJP
16:34is anti-caste
16:36census and it
16:37will not conduct
16:38a caste census.
16:39So in
16:39political strategy
16:40there is a
16:41saying that
16:42one should not
16:42or opposition
16:43should not
16:43demand anything
16:44from the
16:45incumbent which
16:46it can easily
16:47do or implement.
16:49Correct?
16:49Because it is
16:50very very difficult
16:50to take credit.
16:51So one is
16:52political.
16:53The second is
16:53of course electoral.
16:54BJP or
16:55Congress or
16:56any other
16:56party is
16:57here for
16:57winning
16:57elections.
16:58The 2024
16:59Lok Sabha
17:00elections showed
17:01the limitation
17:01of Hindu
17:02work.
17:02In the past
17:0310 years
17:04if you see,
17:05even now,
17:06the BJP
17:07has not been
17:07able to get
17:08more than
17:0950% support
17:10of the Hindu
17:11community.
17:12Amongst the
17:12OBCs,
17:13they lost
17:14around 4%
17:15support in
17:162024,
17:17whereas the
17:17India bloc
17:18gained 11%
17:19and 7%
17:20amongst upper
17:21and lower
17:21OBCs.
17:22The number
17:23looks small,
17:24but if
17:24you dissect
17:25and get
17:26into states,
17:26especially the
17:27Hindi
17:27heartland,
17:28in Bihar
17:29as well
17:30as in
17:30UP,
17:31the BJP
17:32or the
17:32NDA
17:33lost 10%
17:34to 20%
17:35support
17:35amongst the
17:36OBCs.
17:37So that
17:38was a,
17:38you can say,
17:39a call
17:41sort of a
17:41thing.
17:42Now,
17:42what does it
17:43do?
17:44It gives,
17:44it's not only
17:45immediate,
17:46of course,
17:46there is a
17:47Bihar election
17:47election.
17:48In 2020,
17:49Vidhan Sabha
17:49elections,
17:50we know the
17:50difference between
17:51the two
17:51parties was only
17:5312,000 votes.
17:54Even in
17:55Bihar in
17:552020,
17:57the MGB
17:57was able to
17:58expand its
17:59vote base.
18:00The bigger
18:00election is
18:01UP,
18:02wherein the
18:02BDA
18:03trumped the
18:04commandal in
18:06Lok Sabha
18:06elections,
18:07and BIPOL
18:08elections,
18:08we all know,
18:09are not very
18:10indicative of
18:11the general
18:12mood.
18:12It also
18:13gives BJP
18:14a poll
18:15plank for
18:152029
18:16looks of
18:17our elections,
18:18and that is
18:18something which
18:19it would like
18:20to go into
18:20the elections,
18:21because how
18:22many times
18:22it will go
18:23to the
18:24public saying,
18:24true.
18:25I'll come
18:29back to you,
18:29I'll come
18:29back to you,
18:30two minutes
18:30are over.
18:31Now,
18:31contrary to
18:32good sage
18:33sense,
18:34I'm going
18:34to attempt
18:34something which
18:35I'll possibly
18:35regret during
18:36the course of
18:37this bulletin.
18:38I'm going
18:38to take away
18:39the timer,
18:39and maybe
18:39because we
18:40are having
18:40a freewheeling
18:41chat,
18:41we can all,
18:42and the
18:42fader is
18:42not going
18:43to fall.
18:43So I
18:43would hope
18:44you respect
18:44that,
18:44I'm allowing
18:45that,
18:46contrary to
18:46what my
18:47producers are
18:48suggesting,
18:49because it's
18:49a freewheeling
18:50chat,
18:50right?
18:51So Sanju
18:51Verma,
18:51someone who
18:52always says
18:52chronology
18:53I want to
18:54take you
18:54through some
18:55of the
18:55chronology,
18:56which
18:56looks at
18:57a U-turn
18:59which happened,
19:00and why
19:00did it
19:01happen,
19:01and I'd
19:03like to get
19:03the reasons
19:03from you.
19:04December
19:042021,
19:06Union
19:06Minister
19:06Nityanand
19:07Rai says
19:08the government
19:08had no
19:09plans to
19:10collect caste
19:10data during
19:11the census
19:12whenever that
19:13census is
19:13conducted.
19:14The government
19:15in its
19:15affidavit in
19:16the Supreme
19:16Court in
19:162021 says
19:17caste census
19:18unfeasible,
19:19cumbersome,
19:20we are not
19:20having it,
19:21it's not
19:21going to
19:21happen.
19:22October
19:222023,
19:24after the
19:24caste census
19:25was conducted
19:25by the
19:26Mahagadbandan
19:27government in
19:27Bihar,
19:28Prime Minister
19:29Modi called
19:29it an attempt
19:30to divide
19:31the country.
19:32Then in
19:32November,
19:33December 2023,
19:34you had the
19:35RSS that
19:36came out and
19:36said a caste
19:37census can be
19:38carried out for
19:39the purpose of
19:39enumeration as
19:40long as it
19:41doesn't create
19:42the division in
19:43society.
19:43Then exactly
19:44after that you
19:45had an Amit
19:46Shah who came
19:47out and said
19:47that listen we
19:49are not opposed
19:49to a caste
19:50census, we are
19:50not pro it but
19:51we are not
19:51opposed to it.
19:53Then suddenly
19:54everything started
19:55changing especially
19:56since Nitish Kumar
19:57and other allies
19:58of the NDA from
19:59Bihar came and
19:59said you know
20:00we are in you
20:02know bit of a
20:02hot water if you
20:03don't announce
20:04the caste census.
20:05So is it all
20:06plain politics
20:07Sanju Varma is
20:08my question.
20:09Sorry to take so
20:09much time in that
20:10question.
20:11Go ahead ma'am.
20:12No Preeti, I'm
20:13glad you set the
20:14tone of the
20:15question by giving
20:16out that
20:16chronology and
20:17on a lighter
20:18note you know
20:19it's not political
20:20spokespersons alone
20:21who change their
20:22stand.
20:23I have seen
20:23political analysts,
20:25journalists and
20:25the opposition doing
20:26so with even
20:27greater fervor.
20:29Like they say
20:29change is the
20:30only constant.
20:31Ask me ma'am,
20:31I know lots of
20:32journalists who
20:33turned in the
20:34last one decade.
20:35Go ahead ma'am.
20:37Yes, you know
20:38so coming to the
20:39moot point of
20:41this entire issue
20:42let's be very
20:43very clear.
20:45Caste census
20:46under PM Modi
20:47is it about
20:49identity politics?
20:50No.
20:51It is about
20:51policy precision.
20:54It is about
20:54data backed
20:56governance.
20:57It is about
20:58using scientific
20:59facts and
21:00verifiable
21:01objective criteria
21:03to ensure
21:04that welfare
21:05schemes
21:06deliver
21:06and the
21:07beneficiaries
21:08are those
21:09who actually
21:09need the
21:10benefits of
21:11these welfare
21:11schemes.
21:12Does it mean
21:13adequate representation
21:14to everybody?
21:15Yes, of course.
21:16Without fear of
21:17power.
21:18And as far as
21:19Rahul Gandhi
21:20and this entire
21:20cabal of
21:21Nitish Kumar
21:22pressure
21:23that is what
21:26Lalu Prasad
21:27have been saying
21:28if you know
21:29Narendra Modi
21:30never likes
21:32to have a gun
21:33to his head.
21:34Modi ji
21:35pressurize
21:36to do
21:36no pressure
21:37to do
21:37anything
21:37to do
21:38this
21:38good
21:39thing
21:39to know
21:39Narendra Modi
21:41ji
21:42has said
21:43this is what
21:45I will
21:45reinforce for the
21:46benefit of the
21:46opposition.
21:47You
21:47are not
21:48the land
21:49but
21:51the
21:52power is
21:52you
21:53are not
21:53the
21:54trust.
21:54And as far as
21:55changing standards
21:56concerned,
21:57Rahul Gandhi
21:58locally
21:59says
21:59reservation
22:00ka 50%
22:01cap
22:02hata
22:02di jiye.
22:03He goes
22:04abroad,
22:04he sings a
22:05different tune.
22:06In India
22:07he says
22:08merit is
22:08necessary.
22:09He goes
22:09abroad,
22:10he says
22:10merit is
22:11a flawed
22:12concept.
22:13So let's
22:13not talk
22:13about who's
22:14been doing
22:14this turn
22:15court business
22:16but I will
22:16just say
22:17one thing
22:17to you
22:18Priti
22:18which is
22:18very very
22:19important
22:19and this
22:20is some
22:20data that
22:21you can
22:21verify.
22:23When the
22:23SECC of
22:242011
22:25was
22:25undertaken,
22:27they said
22:27that the
22:28OPC
22:28population
22:29in India
22:29was at
22:2952%.
22:31During
22:32two
22:32years
22:32Congress
22:33came to
22:34the
22:35NSSO
22:36survey
22:36and
22:37they said
22:37no,
22:38OPC
22:38population
22:38is not
22:3952%.
22:40It is
22:40just
22:4041%.
22:41Similarly
22:42the SECC
22:43of
22:442011
22:45said
22:45Dalit
22:46population
22:46in India
22:46stands
22:47at
22:4720.14
22:48crore.
22:49In
22:49two
22:49years
22:50the
22:50NSSO
22:51says
22:52Manmohan
22:52Sinki
22:53is
22:53not
22:53the
22:54Dalit
22:54population
22:55is
22:5520
22:55crore.
22:55Dalit
22:56population
22:57was
22:57only
22:5716.66
22:59crore.
23:00So
23:00what I'm
23:00trying to
23:01say
23:01is
23:01that
23:02what
23:02happened
23:03in
23:032011
23:03was
23:04a
23:04hoax,
23:04a
23:05sham
23:05and
23:05the
23:06NSSO
23:06survey
23:07completely
23:08were at
23:10contradiction
23:10with what
23:11the 2011
23:12census
23:12said.
23:13it is
23:13to
23:14iron
23:14out
23:14these
23:15discrepancies
23:16that
23:16these
23:17caste
23:17emumination
23:18will
23:18happen
23:18in
23:182017.
23:19As I
23:19bring in
23:19Mahima
23:20Singh
23:20the fact
23:22is
23:22in
23:222011
23:23all
23:24these
23:24figures
23:25are
23:25here
23:25say
23:25because
23:26the
23:26numbers
23:26were
23:26never
23:27quite
23:27made
23:27public
23:28where
23:28the
23:28caste
23:28calculations
23:29or
23:29caste
23:30demarcations
23:31were
23:31concerned.
23:32That
23:32number
23:32was
23:32not
23:33made
23:33public.
23:33So
23:33we
23:34were
23:34still
23:34functioning
23:35These
23:35numbers
23:35I'm
23:35quoting
23:36from
23:38the
23:38SEC
23:39of
23:392011.
23:39All
23:40I'm
23:40talking
23:40about
23:40is
23:41what
23:41we
23:41are
23:41looking
23:41at
23:42the
23:42caste
23:42census
23:42those
23:43numbers
23:43were
23:43never
23:43made
23:44public.
23:44So
23:44a lot
23:45of
23:45like
23:45for
23:45example
23:46and
23:46Mahima
23:47Singh
23:47in
23:47Karnataka
23:48there
23:49is
23:49a
23:50survey
23:50that
23:50you
23:51did
23:5110
23:51years
23:51ago
23:52everybody
23:52has
23:53the
23:53survey
23:53but
23:53officially
23:54nobody
23:54has
23:54the
23:54survey
23:55but
23:55I'll
23:56come
23:56back
23:56to
23:56you
23:56Mahima
23:56Singh
23:57on
23:57a
23:57larger
23:57question
23:57there
23:58taking
23:58off
23:59even
23:59with
23:59what
24:00Sanju
24:00Varma
24:00said
24:00but
24:01the
24:01political
24:01point
24:01of
24:02it
24:02you
24:02might
24:02be
24:02stressing
24:03on
24:03the
24:03caste
24:03survey
24:03but
24:04the
24:04ultimate
24:04goal
24:05was
24:05over
24:05years
24:06to
24:06foster
24:07and
24:07to
24:08cultivate
24:08a
24:09counter
24:09Hindu
24:10polarization
24:12at the
24:13back
24:13of
24:13constantly
24:14harping
24:15of the
24:15caste
24:15census
24:15now
24:16that
24:16possibility
24:17is
24:18not
24:19possible
24:19anymore
24:19for
24:20the
24:20Congress
24:20so
24:23Preeti
24:24first
24:24of
24:24all
24:24let
24:25me
24:25bust
24:25the
24:26lie
24:27that
24:27exercises
24:28caste
24:29survey
24:29exercises
24:30in
24:30Telangana
24:31and
24:31Karnataka
24:31have
24:32gone
24:32in vain
24:32no
24:33it
24:33is
24:33not
24:33true
24:34Telangana
24:35census
24:36the
24:36caste
24:37survey
24:37exercise
24:37has
24:38been
24:38a
24:39success
24:39and
24:39we
24:39are
24:40sitting
24:40right
24:41on
24:41the
24:41brink
24:41of
24:42blowing
24:42away
24:43the
24:4350%
24:44reservation
24:44cap
24:45the
24:45BJP
24:45and
24:46RSS
24:46supporters
24:47and
24:47office
24:48bearers
24:48will
24:48not
24:48understand
24:49that
24:49because
24:50their
24:50forefathers
24:51and
24:51now
24:52their
24:52current
24:52leaders
24:52have
24:53always
24:53been
24:54opposed
24:54to
24:54the
24:54idea
24:55of
24:55the
24:56reservation
24:56including
24:57their
24:58ideologue
24:58the
24:59RSS
24:59now
25:00coming
25:00to
25:00your
25:01question
25:01the
25:02cabinet
25:04in
25:04Karnataka
25:05government
25:06convened
25:06a meeting
25:07this
25:08April
25:0817th
25:09of
25:09April
25:09and
25:10the
25:10meeting
25:11the
25:11imminent
25:12now
25:12is
25:12on
25:12May
25:139th
25:13and
25:14you
25:14know
25:14that
25:14the
25:14caste
25:15survey
25:15report
25:16has
25:16been
25:16in
25:17the
25:18discussion
25:18mode
25:19for
25:19a
25:19long
25:20time
25:20in
25:20between
25:2110
25:21years
25:21in the
25:21making
25:22surveys
25:24take place
25:2510
25:26years
25:26in the
25:26making
25:26sorry
25:26I'm
25:27interrupting
25:27you
25:27make
25:27your
25:27point
25:28I
25:29yeah
25:29I
25:29just
25:29I'll
25:30quickly
25:30make
25:30my
25:31point
25:31I'm
25:31saying
25:31that
25:32it is
25:32in
25:32the
25:33stages
25:34of
25:34discussion
25:35and
25:35we
25:35are
25:36inching
25:37in
25:37towards
25:37success
25:38and
25:38there's
25:38a
25:38cabinet
25:39meeting
25:39scheduled
25:39for
25:40May
25:409th
25:40let's
25:41see
25:41what
25:41comes
25:41out
25:41of
25:42it
25:42and
25:42our
25:42cast
25:43surveys
25:43are
25:43being
25:43discussed
25:44in
25:44our
25:44CWCs
25:45and a
25:46fruitful
25:46outcome
25:47is
25:47only
25:47imminent
25:47pretty
25:48all
25:50right
25:50okay
25:50that
25:50was
25:50short
25:51and
25:51crisp
25:51allow
25:52me
25:52to
25:52bring
25:53in
25:53everyone
25:53one
25:53by
25:53one
25:54please
25:54allow
25:54me
25:54I
25:54want
25:55to
25:55bring
25:55in
25:55Rajat
25:55Sethi
25:55into
25:56this
25:56conversation
25:56how do
25:58you read
25:58the
25:58move
25:58clearly
25:59you
25:59affirm
26:00that
26:00this
26:01is
26:01clearly
26:01not
26:01the
26:01best
26:02move
26:02that
26:02the
26:02government
26:03could
26:03have
26:03made
26:03maybe
26:04it's
26:04political
26:04compulsions
26:05but do
26:05you reckon
26:06that
26:06this
26:06time
26:07around
26:07because
26:07you
26:08see
26:08that
26:09the
26:09government
26:10is
26:10trying
26:10to
26:10foment
26:11a
26:11mandal
26:112.0
26:12of
26:12sorts
26:12which
26:13includes
26:13the
26:14caste
26:14calculations
26:15in
26:15it
26:15is
26:15it
26:16possible
26:16for
26:16the
26:17BJP
26:17keeping
26:17in
26:18mind
26:18the
26:18current
26:18caste
26:18calculations
26:19see
26:21there
26:22has
26:22been
26:22a
26:22degree
26:23of
26:23perversity
26:24around
26:24reservations
26:25that
26:25have
26:25come
26:25in
26:26especially
26:26if
26:26you
26:26talk
26:27about
26:27OBC
26:27reservation
26:28Rohini
26:29commission
26:29is a
26:30case
26:30in
26:30point
26:31the
26:31sub
26:32categorization
26:32of
26:33OBC
26:34is
26:34important
26:34and
26:35the
26:35benefits
26:36of
26:36reservation
26:36within
26:37the
26:37OBC
26:38has
26:38to
26:38be
26:38more
26:39democratized
26:39same
26:40goes
26:40with
26:41the
26:41Dalit
26:41reservation
26:42and
26:42tribal
26:42reservation
26:43also
26:43we
26:44are
26:44seeing
26:44that
26:44families
26:45specific
26:46families
26:47of
26:47Dalit
26:47community
26:48are
26:48only
26:48taking
26:48away
26:49all
26:49the
26:49benefits
26:50of
26:50reservation
26:50can
26:51BJP
26:52or
26:53does
26:53BJP
26:54have
26:54the
26:54spine
26:55to
26:55actually
26:55correct
26:56all
26:56the
26:56injustices
26:57that
26:57have
26:58crept
26:58into
26:58the
26:58reservation
26:59system
26:59I
27:00will
27:00100%
27:01come
27:01out
27:01and
27:02support
27:02and
27:02this
27:02is
27:03what
27:03I
27:03am
27:03saying
27:03that
27:04you
27:04need
27:04to
27:04come
27:04out
27:05and
27:05put
27:05it
27:05in
27:05as
27:06clear
27:07terms
27:07as
27:07possible
27:07so
27:08that
27:08you
27:08can
27:08at
27:08least
27:09ensure
27:09that
27:09your
27:10base
27:10which
27:10stood
27:11in
27:11principally
27:12opposing
27:12this
27:13very
27:13shabby
27:14thought
27:14process
27:15of the
27:15Congress
27:15party
27:16and
27:16their
27:16ilk
27:16on
27:17caste
27:17census
27:18that
27:18can
27:18at
27:19least
27:19be
27:19addressed
27:19and
27:20I
27:20am
27:20again
27:20I
27:20am
27:21saying
27:21broke
27:21the
27:22ceiling
27:2250%
27:23break
27:23the
27:23ceiling
27:23take
27:24it
27:24to
27:24whatever
27:25level
27:25you
27:25want
27:25to
27:26as
27:26long
27:26as
27:26justice
27:27to
27:27the
27:28truly
27:28underprivileged
27:29communities
27:30of our
27:30country
27:31are served
27:32it
27:32cannot
27:33be
27:33that
27:33the
27:33Yadavs
27:34take
27:34away
27:34all
27:34the
27:35political
27:35educational
27:36and
27:37economic
27:37benefits
27:37over
27:38and
27:38over
27:38and
27:38over
27:38again
27:39and
27:39we
27:39are
27:39seeing
27:39symbols
27:40like
27:40Tejasui
27:41Yadav
27:41hogging
27:42in the
27:42face
27:43and
27:43taking
27:44away
27:44all
27:44the
27:44political
27:45benefits
27:45that
27:45come
27:45out
27:46of
27:46reservation
27:46that
27:47is
27:47something
27:47that
27:47I
27:48am
27:48opposed
27:48to
27:48and
27:49I
27:49believe
27:49that
27:49BJP
27:50should
27:50do
27:50this
27:51extra
27:51exercise
27:51so
27:52that
27:52it's
27:52core
27:53narrative
27:53that
27:53Hindu
27:54Samaj
27:55cannot
27:55be
27:56broken
27:56down
27:56under
27:56caste
27:57lines
27:57yes
27:58if there
27:58are
27:58injustices
27:59they have
27:59to be
27:59addressed
28:00in the
28:00face
28:01you know
28:01we are
28:01giving out
28:01figures
28:02because
28:02clearly
28:02the
28:02government
28:03has
28:03listened
28:03to
28:03what
28:04the
28:04national
28:04perspective
28:05is
28:05right
28:05now
28:05Ashutosh
28:06the
28:06mood
28:07of the
28:07nation
28:07survey
28:07which
28:08was
28:08carried
28:08out
28:08and
28:09you
28:09can
28:09see
28:10through
28:10the
28:10course
28:10of
28:11three
28:11surveys
28:12from
28:1259%
28:13it
28:13went
28:13up
28:13to
28:1374%
28:14and
28:14at
28:1469%
28:15possibly
28:167
28:16in
28:1710
28:17people
28:17in
28:18India
28:18believe
28:18that
28:18a
28:18caste
28:19survey
28:19needs
28:19to
28:19happen
28:20so
28:20quickly
28:20the
28:21government
28:21has
28:21taken
28:21that
28:22feedback
28:22at
28:22the
28:22back
28:23of
28:23the
28:23RSS
28:23outreach
28:24program
28:25the
28:25fact
28:26Ashutosh
28:26is
28:27that
28:27the
28:27prime
28:28minister
28:28and
28:28the
28:28BJP
28:29somersaulted
28:30and
28:30they
28:30do
28:30it
28:30very
28:31quickly
28:31can
28:32the
28:32congress
28:32now
28:33come
28:33up
28:33with
28:33a
28:33new
28:33narrative
28:34and
28:34how
28:34do
28:34they
28:35now
28:35go
28:43hogging
28:43all
28:44the
28:44limelights
28:45of
28:46reservation
28:47and
28:47everything
28:47but
28:48what
28:49about
28:49those
28:49who
28:50thousands
28:50of
28:50years
28:50have
28:51been
28:51hogging
28:51all
28:52the
28:52privileges
28:52all
28:53the
28:53benefits
28:53everything
28:54have
28:55they
28:55ever
28:55said
28:56sorry
28:56for
28:56this
28:56have
28:57they
28:57ever
28:58indulged
28:58into
28:58any
28:58kind
28:59of
28:59finance
28:59no
29:00they
29:00will
29:00not
29:00because
29:01it's
29:01easy
29:02to
29:02target
29:02a
29:02kurmi
29:04it's
29:04easy
29:04to
29:04target
29:04these
29:05people
29:07see
29:08the
29:08sense
29:08of
29:08entitlement
29:09in
29:09a
29:09particular
29:10class
29:10in
29:10this
29:10country
29:13reservation
29:14is
29:14raised
29:15they
29:15talk
29:16about
29:16merits
29:16as if
29:17the
29:17Dalits
29:18and the
29:19OBC
29:19they
29:19do
29:19not
29:19have
29:20merit
29:20what
29:21kind
29:21of
29:22entitlement
29:22this
29:22is
29:23different
29:24kind
29:24of
29:24entitlement
29:25and
29:25that
29:25has
29:26to
29:26be
29:26condemned
29:26openly
29:27it
29:27should
29:27be
29:27condemned
29:27so
29:28that
29:28only
29:29this
29:30merit
29:32only
29:32belongs
29:32to
29:33the
29:33upper
29:33caste
29:33merit
29:34only
29:34belongs
29:35to
29:35the
29:36upper
29:36caste
29:37among
29:37the
29:38upper
29:38caste
29:38what
29:38kind
29:39of
29:39nonsense
29:39is
29:39this
29:39not
29:40meritorious
29:42so
29:42this
29:42whole
29:43logic
29:43has
29:43to
29:43go
29:44first
29:44of
29:45all
29:45let
29:47me
29:47tell
29:48you
29:48this
29:48this
29:49caste
29:49census
29:50is
29:50just
29:50the
29:51beginning
29:51this
29:52caste
29:52census
29:53will
29:53go
29:53to
29:54demand
29:54and
29:55the
29:55ceiling
29:55of
29:55the
29:5550%
29:56will
29:56be
29:56broken
29:57if
29:58the
29:59government
29:59does
29:59it
29:59good
29:59enough
30:00otherwise
30:01it
30:01will
30:02go
30:02further
30:02and
30:03this
30:03reservation
30:04should
30:04also
30:04go
30:05into
30:05the
30:05private
30:05sector
30:06that
30:06is
30:07going
30:07to
30:08lead
30:08that
30:09that
30:09that
30:10that
30:10that
30:10that
30:10that
30:10that
30:10question
30:11from
30:11it
30:12might
30:12there
30:12might
30:12be
30:12political
30:13math
30:13behind
30:14it
30:14right
30:14now
30:14Amitabh
30:15Tiwari
30:15because
30:16but
30:16this
30:17is
30:17opening
30:18a
30:18Pandora's
30:19box
30:19you
30:19don't
30:19know
30:20where
30:20we
30:20are
30:20going
30:20to
30:20go
30:21you
30:21don't
30:21know
30:22what
30:22the
30:22opposition
30:22is
30:23going
30:23to
30:23tip
30:23the
30:23scales
30:23to
30:24now
30:24of
30:26course
30:26I
30:27mean
30:27earlier
30:28the
30:28BJP
30:29was
30:29opposed
30:30to
30:30it
30:30precisely
30:31because
30:31of
30:32this
30:32reason
30:32but
30:33I
30:33agree
30:33with
30:33Ashutosh
30:34ji
30:34that
30:34it
30:35will
30:35not
30:35stop
30:35here
30:36what
30:36will
30:36you
30:36do
30:36with
30:36the
30:37data
30:37which
30:37comes
30:37out
30:38exactly
30:38I
30:38mean
30:39yesterday
30:39I
30:40was
30:40listening
30:40to
30:40Yogen
30:41Riyadav
30:41ji
30:41on
30:42your
30:42show
30:42most
30:43of
30:44the
30:44things
30:44which
30:44this
30:45survey
30:45will
30:45bring
30:46out
30:46is
30:46already
30:47known
30:47one
30:48is
30:48that
30:49the
30:49OBC
30:49population
30:50is
30:50anywhere
30:50between
30:5141
30:51to
30:5151
30:52percent
30:52or
30:52even
30:53higher
30:53second
30:54is
30:54that
30:54the
30:54upper
30:55OBCs
30:55and
30:56the
30:56privileged
30:57Dalits
30:57among
30:58the
30:58SCs
30:59have
31:00pocketed
31:00large
31:01portion
31:02of the
31:02benefit
31:03of
31:03reservation
31:03this
31:04is
31:04already
31:04known
31:04it
31:05is
31:06just
31:06that
31:06the
31:07census
31:08will
31:08come
31:08out
31:08with
31:08exact
31:09numbers
31:09of
31:10the
31:10population
31:10now
31:12it
31:12sets
31:13the
31:13base
31:13for
31:13breaking
31:14the
31:14ceiling
31:14of
31:1550
31:15percent
31:16the
31:16next
31:16step
31:17and
31:17the
31:17BJP
31:18perhaps
31:18could
31:19do it
31:19even
31:19before
31:2020
31:2029
31:21or
31:21put
31:22it
31:22in
31:22its
31:22manifesto
31:23and
31:23fight
31:23the
31:23elections
31:24of
31:2420
31:2429
31:25on
31:25the
31:25promise
31:26that
31:26it
31:26would
31:26break
31:27the
31:27ceiling
31:27then
31:28after
31:29that
31:29what
31:29happens
31:30it
31:30opens
31:30a
31:30Pandora's
31:31box
31:31then
31:31there
31:31would
31:31be
31:31demand
31:32of
31:32because
31:32see
31:33reservation
31:33in
31:34government
31:34jobs
31:34are
31:35few
31:35and
31:36very
31:37few
31:37at
31:37the
31:38moment
31:38there
31:38are
31:38many
31:39government
31:39positions
31:40which
31:40are
31:40vacant
31:40so
31:41ultimately
31:41the
31:41demand
31:42will
31:42then
31:43probably
31:43go
31:43to
31:49one
31:49is
31:49already
31:50demanding
31:50it
31:50is
31:51already
31:51saying
31:52and
31:52is
31:53one
31:53of
31:53the
31:53key
31:54allies
31:54of
31:55the
31:55BJP
31:55so
31:56where
31:56it
31:56will
31:56stop
31:56is
31:57fairly
31:57difficult
31:57to
31:58say
31:58for
32:00electoral
32:00gains
32:01BJP
32:01has
32:01taken
32:02this
32:02risk
32:02it
32:03is
32:03contrary
32:03to
32:04what
32:04their
32:04original
32:05position
32:05was
32:05that
32:05they
32:06were
32:06trying
32:06to
32:06unite
32:07all
32:07the
32:07sub
32:08castes
32:08of
32:09Hindus
32:09amongst
32:10the
32:10larger
32:11Hindu
32:11umbrella
32:11now
32:12this
32:12will
32:12lead
32:13to
32:13further
32:15strengthening
32:15the
32:15caste
32:16identities
32:16and
32:19largely
32:20on
32:20the
32:20caste
32:21of
32:21the
32:21candidates
32:21and
32:22this
32:22definitely
32:23comes
32:23off
32:24the
32:24urban
32:25middle
32:25class
32:25support
32:26base
32:26of
32:26the
32:26right
32:27so
32:27what
32:27comes
32:28off
32:28Sanju
32:28Verma
32:28of
32:29cutting
32:29it
32:29but
32:30on
32:31a
32:31larger
32:31question
32:32you
32:32know
32:32the
32:33BJP
32:33will
32:33have
32:33us
32:34believe
32:34it
32:34taken
32:34out
32:35the
32:35wind
32:35of
32:35the
32:35opposition
32:36political
32:37sales
32:37but
32:38on
32:38the
32:38contrary
32:39has
32:39BJP
32:40actually
32:40you
32:41know
32:42taken
32:42the
32:42bait
32:42of
32:43the
32:43opposition
32:44and
32:44fallen
32:44into
32:44their
32:45trap
32:45you
32:47know
32:47Preeti
32:47I'm
32:48tired
32:49of
32:49this
32:49whining
32:50and
32:50you
32:51know
32:51victim
32:51card
32:52that
32:52the
32:52opposition
32:52player
32:53saying
32:53when
32:56we
33:00implemented
33:00GST
33:01in
33:012017
33:02they
33:02said
33:02why
33:03the
33:10102nd
33:11amendment
33:11when
33:11we
33:12gave
33:12constitutional
33:13status
33:14to the
33:14national
33:14commission
33:15for
33:15backward
33:15classes
33:16which
33:17did
33:17not
33:17happen
33:17for
33:17the
33:18longest
33:18time
33:18and
33:18then
33:18successive
33:19congress
33:20government
33:20then
33:20white
33:26the
33:26127th
33:27amendment
33:27we
33:28actually
33:28in the
33:28spirit
33:29of
33:29cooperative
33:29federalism
33:30allowed
33:31states
33:32to
33:32notify
33:33671
33:35OBC
33:35communities
33:36in line
33:36with
33:37recommendations
33:37of the
33:38Rohini
33:39commission
33:39when
33:39we
33:44brought
33:44the
33:44women's
33:45reservation
33:45bill to
33:46fruition
33:46Priyanka
33:47Vardra
33:48and Rahul
33:48Gandhi
33:49and
33:49their
33:49mother
33:50Sonia
33:50Gandhi
33:51three
33:51people
33:51have
33:52heard
33:52and
33:53BJP
33:53have
33:53our
33:54idea
33:54I
33:55repeat
33:56in the
33:57political
33:58landscape
33:59an idea
34:00is only
34:00as good
34:01as its
34:01execution
34:02and I
34:03once again
34:03applaud
34:04Prime
34:04Minister
34:04Narendra
34:05Modi
34:05for
34:05showcasing
34:06willpower
34:07and conviction
34:07to ensure
34:09that the
34:09caste census
34:10will be
34:11a reality
34:11come
34:122026
34:13and let me
34:14tell you
34:14one more
34:14thing
34:15Pripy
34:15that BJP
34:17and RSS
34:18has nothing
34:19to do
34:19with
34:19reservation
34:20last
34:21point
34:21please
34:22note
34:22that the
34:2227%
34:24reservation
34:24to
34:25OBC
34:25and 10%
34:27reservation
34:27to
34:28EWS
34:28in
34:29NBBS
34:30and TG
34:30medical
34:31courses
34:31happened
34:32thanks to
34:33whom
34:33not
34:34Mehru
34:34and Rahul
34:35Gandhi
34:35and Rajiv
34:36Gandhi
34:36thanks to
34:37Prime Minister
34:38Narendra Modi
34:38I'm going to
34:41take final
34:42submissions
34:42in one
34:43last round
34:43but
34:44idea
34:44answer my
34:46question
34:47ma'am
34:47I asked
34:47you one
34:47quick question
34:48which was
34:49has the
34:50government
34:50taken the
34:51bait of
34:51the opposition
34:52and it's
34:53a trap
34:53because now
34:54the
34:54government
34:54now the
34:55opposition
34:55will double
34:56down on
34:56other issues
34:57keeping in
34:57mind
34:57and keep
34:58the issue
34:59alive
34:59that happened
35:07yesterday
35:07Rahul Gandhi
35:08did it
35:08yesterday
35:08but I
35:09want to
35:09bring in
35:09Mahima Singh
35:10Mahima Singh
35:10when Rahul
35:11Gandhi
35:11yesterday
35:11was asked
35:12that
35:12is the
35:13timing
35:14because of
35:14the Bihar
35:14elections
35:15he actually
35:15said no
35:16because many
35:17would think
35:17that it is
35:18with a clear
35:19eye on
35:19Bihar
35:20elections
35:20where short
35:21term gains
35:21are
35:21I'll take
35:23my two
35:24nuances
35:24from
35:25Hindi
35:25anecdotes
35:26and
35:26adages
35:28Preeti
35:28one
35:29in Hindi
35:30they say
35:30that
35:30everyone
35:31looks like
35:32all the
35:32things
35:33so
35:33everyone
35:34looks like
35:35that
35:36we've
35:37seen
35:38and
35:39that
35:39is
35:40the
35:41honorable
35:41leader
35:42of
35:44opposition
35:44that
35:46is
35:47the
35:47honorable
35:47leader
35:48of
35:48opposition
35:48I would say on your show today.
35:59These people are living in La La Land.
36:01The BJP doesn't stop anymore.
36:04Let her finish.
36:05The BJP, I would not.
36:07Ma'am, allow her to finish.
36:08This is Rahul Gandhi's victory over the BJP.
36:12BJP is the obscurity.
36:14BJP is bigotry.
36:15The way they have been governing this country.
36:18Ma'am, make your point.
36:32Ma'am, quickly make your point.
36:33You have 30 seconds.
36:33I was saying, Preeti, that finally the BJP will be compelled to walk the talk even if you're not intent on it.
36:44Okay.
36:44All right.
36:45I will bring in Rajat Sethi right now.
36:47Rajat Sethi, do you see this as a political trap somewhere?
36:49Because the opposition will now up the game, taking on from what Ashutosh was saying.
36:53They could have stuck to their stand and weathered this storm, but they have chosen to walk into it.
36:59Preeti ji, life is not always about politics.
37:02We, and currently the ruling party, the BJP and the government have greater things to achieve, other than only winning the elections.
37:11A perverse dichotomy in our country was created by none other than the leader of opposition, Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
37:16When he created a dichotomy and a split between social justice and merit, he threw the concept of merit itself out of the window.
37:25And let me tell you, that is a red flag.
37:27If you denounce merit, let me tell you, this country will sink.
37:32Merit is paramount in any country.
37:37Pick any country which has done away with merit and has still succeeded.
37:40Again, I'm saying the objective with which Rahul Gandhi would have uttered that word, it should have been that what do I do in my capacity when I become coming to power?
37:50How do I elevate the people in the Dalit community, the tribal community and the OVC to rise to a level where they can go out and compete on merit instead of shunning the idea of merit?
38:02And I think this wisdom you cannot expect from political leadership.
38:06The reason is because they are only bothered about one election after the next election and country can be doomed.
38:11And I'm again telling you, one red line that must not be crossed by any political party, which is giving supremacy to merit and ensuring all communities of our country can stand up.
38:23Rajat said, you have a larger message there, okay, for cutting across party lines.
38:26But Ashutosh, you know, in the...
38:28Brief response, allow me a brief response.
38:30Ma'am, I will allow you once I...
38:32Ma'am, can I come in?
38:33No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
38:35I'm going to Ashutosh, then I will go to Amitabji, and then all of you will get one minute each to make your final submissions, right?
38:41So, Ashutosh ji, I want to come to you.
38:43During the 1990s, the BJP famously opposed the implementation of the Mandel Commission recommendations by saying,
38:49Kamandal ke...
38:51Mandel se ka jawab Kamandal.
38:54This is Kamandal 2.0 for the BJP.
38:56What should be ideally the opposition's response from here?
39:01See, Priti, what I just heard, I just heard the repeat of what I heard in 1990 when Vishwanath Pratap Singh
39:08implemented 27% reservation for the OBCs.
39:13Exactly the same words were said there.
39:16Not one.
39:17Many top leaders of the country, many intellectuals of that point, all of them had thought that they are entitled,
39:24and they are the only meritorious person in this country.
39:27Since 1990 to 2025, the country has progressed.
39:34Today, we are the fifth largest economy.
39:36The GDP ran.
39:38Before 1990, when there was no reservation for OBCs,
39:42this country was as a growing at a rate of that India almost became bankrupt.
39:48The issue is the sense of entitlement in a certain class of the people,
39:54in certain the caste of the people has to go.
39:57Now, they are hugely frustrated and desperate
39:59because
40:00I can understand the anger.
40:06I can understand the frustration.
40:07The issue is, the process of history has to take this route,
40:13whether it was done by Narendra Modi or Rahul Gandhi or somebody else.
40:16This is the natural process.
40:18I want to bring in Amitabh Tiwari,
40:19and then I'll give you all a timer for one minute to make your submissions.
40:23Amitabh Tiwari, at one end, you know,
40:26the larger political reading would be
40:28that the BJP is trying to stop the Congress from fomenting
40:31a counter-Hindu consolidation
40:33on the basis of OBCs and the caste census.
40:36Do you actually buy into that?
40:38Because a lot of the upper castes,
40:40which have been traditional vote banks of the BJP,
40:42clearly seem to be offended by this move.
40:47No, if you see the upper caste population,
40:49whenever the census happens,
40:52perhaps it will be in the range of 10 to 15 percent,
40:54which is not a significant number.
40:56And the upper caste does not have a lot of choice.
40:59Because if the opposition and the incumbent government
41:02are both batting for the caste census,
41:05where does the upper caste go?
41:07It does not have a choice.
41:08So that's why it is a very, very calculated risk.
41:11From here, the Congress party has to see
41:13as to how much effort they spend on taking credit for this.
41:19Because largely, I feel taking credit for this
41:21is going to be very, very difficult.
41:23However, after having tasted blood of sorts,
41:27they will have to now move to other issues very quickly.
41:32Because if they spend a lot of time
41:34basking in glory,
41:36that it is under pressure of Rahul Gandhi and Congress
41:38that the BJP is willing to do caste census,
41:41because it is very, very difficult
41:43to reap it electorally, in my opinion.
41:45Fair point.
41:45They will have to rake up other issues,
41:47largely economic issues,
41:48which the country is facing.
41:49Largely economic issues,
41:50and they'll have to up the game
41:51and push the government bigger
41:52when it comes down beyond the caste census.
41:54I'm going to give you all one minute each
41:56to make your final submission.
41:58Sanjay Varma, we begin with you.
41:59Your timer starts now, ma'am.
42:03You know, Preeti, first and foremost,
42:06let me make one thing very clear.
42:08Sarkar bhi hamaari hai,
42:10system bhi hamaara hai.
42:12Ma'am, we need to get the timer going.
42:13One second.
42:14Can we get the timer for Sanjay Varma?
42:15Sorry.
42:16Ma'am, give us like 10 seconds.
42:17No, no.
42:18It's just that then to be fair.
42:20Can we just get the timer going?
42:22Sanjay Varma, go ahead.
42:23Okay.
42:25So, Preeti, let me reiterate.
42:28System bhi hamaara hai,
42:29sarkar bhi hamaari hai.
42:31System bhi BJP ka hai,
42:33sarkar bhi BJP ki hai.
42:35Toh congressiyo,
42:36zhaadha uchalna bandh kariye.
42:37But I just want to say one thing,
42:40and especially, you know,
42:41to Rajat,
42:42and this is with no offence to none,
42:45we should not assume
42:47that a caste census
42:48will be detrimental
42:49to any particular caste
42:51or specifically speaking
42:53to upper caste.
42:54Let us not assume
42:55that a caste census
42:56is anti-merit.
42:58Let us not assume
43:00that a caste census
43:01will lead to greater polarization.
43:05Because, you know,
43:05when you're assuming these things,
43:07then you're being unfair
43:09before the process
43:10has even begun.
43:11And is a caste census
43:13necessary to do away
43:15with legacy-related issues
43:17where certain castes
43:18have been at the receiving end
43:20and have not been mainstreamed
43:22in terms of the development process?
43:24Yes.
43:25Do these legacy reasons
43:26need to be dealt with
43:28within the political
43:29institutional machinery?
43:30Yes.
43:31Is the caste census
43:32a good way of going about it?
43:34The answer is yes.
43:35And my final point
43:36is only this.
43:38Ma'am, your fader's gone down.
43:40I have no control on this.
43:41Sorry, your final point
43:41was not taken.
43:42The fader went down.
43:43Ma'am, I'm saying one minute.
43:44Your time starts now.
43:45To the BJP's spokesperson,
43:48very humbly,
43:49I wish to remind Preeti,
43:51that the one who was
43:52who was already here
43:52was the one who was
43:53who was the first
43:53of your own
43:54and the one who was
43:54who was the one who was
43:55who was the one who was
43:56who was the one who was.
43:57He was the one who was the one who was.
43:57So you see,
43:59the BJP has finally bowed down
44:01to the opposition's
44:02demand of caste census
44:05to the real public issues.
44:07Now the question is,
44:08the historical advertent,
44:14intentional delay
44:15in conducting the caste census
44:17by the BJP
44:18is finally seeming
44:20to come to a fruitful end.
44:23Finally, we shall see
44:25caste census happening,
44:26hopefully,
44:27because we don't remember
44:28in the history,
44:28when was it
44:29that a caste census
44:30was not conducted
44:31for over 16 years.
44:33And finally,
44:33we just wish to remind
44:34the BJP
44:35that it is a tight rope
44:37to walk.
44:38They are steering away
44:39from their ideology.
44:40They are straying
44:42into our arena
44:43and we are well prepared.
44:44I want to say this
44:45to Amitabh Tiwari also.
44:47We are well prepared.
44:48Ma'am, your time is up.
44:49Ma'am, but you know,
44:50just on that point,
44:51because I just want
44:52to tell our viewers,
44:52we still refer
44:53to the data
44:55in terms of caste
44:55from 1931.
44:57So we are operating blind,
44:58especially when we are
44:59making policies
44:59for communities
45:01based on data,
45:02which is 90-year-old.
45:03A lot of that time,
45:04Mahima Singh,
45:05you know,
45:05was the Congress.
45:06So that was in your hands
45:07to change.
45:08I just want to,
45:09you know,
45:09go across right now
45:10to Rajat Sethi.
45:11One minute Rajat Sethi,
45:13final submission, sir.
45:15Well, it's pointless
45:16to waste time on Congress.
45:18Congress and strategy
45:18are oxymoronic.
45:19They don't go together.
45:20Let's leave that aside.
45:21They brought in caste census
45:22as a typical antidote
45:24to Hindutva
45:24and Hindutva consolidation.
45:26Now, the challenge
45:27before the BJP is,
45:28given the fact
45:29that they have taken
45:30this decision,
45:31that how do you
45:32do the caste census
45:33within keeping
45:34the broad umbrella
45:35of Hindutva intact.
45:36That is going to test
45:38their innovative process
45:40of handling this issue,
45:41ensuring that social justice
45:42is done
45:43to the really
45:45underprivileged communities
45:46who have not been
45:47able to get
45:48the benefits
45:49of social justice
45:50in our country
45:50for decades.
45:52And let me also tell you
45:53to Ashutosh Gupta ji,
45:54underlining the word
45:55Gupta here,
45:56that the fact
45:57of the matter remains
45:58that such kind of
45:59dog-whistling
46:01against merit
46:02hasn't taken
46:03the country forward.
46:04Country will only
46:05move forward
46:06when you ensure
46:07that social justice
46:08and merit
46:09go hand in hand.
46:10Policies,
46:11and there are enough
46:12evidences around the world
46:13to actually take out
46:14leave and ensure
46:15that this is done properly.
46:16time is up.
46:17Ashutosh,
46:17I want to bring you in.
46:18You know,
46:19I don't know
46:19by underlying
46:20the word Gupta,
46:21but over to you
46:22to respond.
46:22One minute starts now.
46:25My sympathies,
46:28I can only extend
46:29my sympathies,
46:29nothing more.
46:30The issue is
46:31not the electoral politics.
46:34The issue is not
46:35the economic battle.
46:37The issue is
46:38civilizational.
46:40The issue is
46:40social dignity.
46:42The issue is
46:42social fraternity.
46:44Abbasav Ambedkar
46:45has said
46:46the constitution
46:46has given equality
46:47and liberty,
46:49but unfortunately,
46:50social fraternity
46:51is still mixing
46:51in this country.
46:53And how it is happening,
46:54can you imagine?
46:55Lalu Yadav will be
46:56identified as a
46:57Jungle Raj.
46:58Akhilesh Yadav will be
46:59identified as a
47:00Gunda Raj.
47:01Mayawati will be
47:01identified as a
47:02Bhastachar Raj.
47:04No upper caste
47:05will ever be
47:06identified with
47:07these words.
47:08That's the prejudice
47:09that has to go
47:11from India.
47:12Unless that battle
47:14is over,
47:14this GDP,
47:16growth,
47:16merit,
47:17is useless,
47:18have no sense,
47:19nothing.
47:20We all are
47:22sinners.
47:24Unless we do
47:25finance,
47:27the history
47:27will not forgive us.
47:28But Ashutosh Ji,
47:30the current incumbent
47:30government is also
47:31known as Thakurwad,
47:32no?
47:33But I'll come back,
47:34you know,
47:35that's for another day.
47:36Amitabh Ji,
47:36my final,
47:37you know,
47:38question,
47:39and you can sum it up
47:39in one minute.
47:42The current,
47:44the BJP deciding
47:45that they'll go ahead
47:46for the caste census,
47:47how will it play out?
47:48Has the Indian
47:49socio-political landscape
47:50changed forever?
47:51See,
47:54it all depends.
47:55The BJP has taken
47:56a calculated risk
47:57clearly while moving
47:58from a larger
47:59Hindutva pitch
48:00to a caste-based pitch.
48:02Whether it is a
48:04masterstroke
48:05and it undercuts
48:05the opposition momentum
48:07or it is a sign
48:08of political,
48:10giving political
48:11concession weakness,
48:12this will be seen
48:13in times to come.
48:14However,
48:15the data which it produces
48:16and the affirmative action
48:18which is going to be taken
48:19and its consequences
48:21on the overall
48:22increase of the cap
48:24of the reservation ceiling
48:25is going to change
48:27the politics forever.
48:29We'll have to wait and see.
48:30The opposition has been
48:31playing on BJP's pitch
48:32for quite a long time now.
48:34It seems now the BJP
48:35is going to play
48:36on opposition's pitch
48:37for some time.
48:38Whether the opposition
48:39can capitalize this or not
48:41will all depend
48:42upon the electoral results
48:44in the next election cycle
48:46up to 2029
48:47and we'll have to see
48:48how this pans out.
48:50All right.
48:51Okay, Sanjeev,
48:51I appreciate the enthusiasm,
48:53ma'am,
48:53but we don't have the time.
48:54I'm going to let it be.
48:55I appreciate all our guests
48:56for joining us.
48:56We leave it for our viewers
48:57on which side
48:58of this very contentious
49:00and sensitive divide
49:01that we stand on.