DC Councilmember joins G&D to discuss why he believes the Commanders and the city need to continue to work towards getting a GOOD deal done for the city. Do you agree?
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00:00Ward 6 Councilmember Charles Allen has been on the show many times before.
00:04Always very kind with his time when there's big D.C. sports stadium news for us here on Grant and Danny.
00:11Councilmember, thanks so much. How are you?
00:13I'm doing great, guys. How are you doing today?
00:14Very well, thank you.
00:15Very well. I think we're on opposite sides of this one. I've got to be honest with you.
00:19But you're my favorite Councilmember. I'm going to butter you up first because you always hear our calls.
00:25There's people putting out statements that told us to kick rocks.
00:28You always come on and answer questions, and I really, really appreciate that.
00:31Oh, absolutely. I appreciate it, guys.
00:34So let's just start with your reaction to yesterday's news, the press conference.
00:39And if anything's changed, because last time we talked to you, you were in the no pile.
00:43I'm going to put you in the no pile.
00:45Or in this stadium project. Is that still the case?
00:48You know, what I love is that people will kind of be like, hey, what do you think about a stadium?
00:53I'm like, I've been asked that question for more than a decade, and it's always been the same answer.
00:57I don't think a stadium is the best way to revive that neighborhood.
01:01I think there's a better way to build housing and build parks and new jobs and business.
01:06There's a lot of ways we could do that.
01:09But we're no longer in that theoretical, right?
01:11Now we've got an actual proposal in front of us.
01:13And the thing that gives me a lot of pause right now is that this would be the second largest public subsidy of an NFL stadium since 2009.
01:21And we're talking $1.2 billion of taxpayer money.
01:26I don't think it's a good deal.
01:28Now, I think that if this is going to happen, we've got a lot of work to do to actually get this to be a much better deal for the district and, frankly, also for the fans.
01:38What's that threshold look like for you?
01:39So, again, we're using big, broad numbers here.
01:42So, $1.2 billion is too much, which I think most people can understand.
01:46What's not too much?
01:48You know, I mean, we talked about this last time, right?
01:51I'm not afraid of putting public money into projects that see the return on investment.
01:55I was a huge proponent for CapOne Arena.
01:58And you remember, I was out there before we ever went through the will-we-won't-we scenarios in Virginia that we needed to put money in.
02:06And so, I strongly supported the $500 million to go into CapOne Arena.
02:10And why?
02:11Because an arena generates year-round activity.
02:14And that's just not what you're going to see at an NFL stadium.
02:17The things that, you know, it's hard to draw a line and say, here's an exact number, right?
02:20Because I'm more interested in what they're going to do.
02:22So, right now, we've got, you know, close to $400 million going to build parking garages and 8,000 parking spots.
02:30That, to me, is stupid.
02:33Like, think about Nat's Ballpark.
02:34So, there's two parking garages by the ballpark when you walk in the center field gate.
02:38That's $1,250.
02:39It's $1,250 parking spots.
02:42If I were to build 8,000 spots, I'd have to have 13 parking garages around the ballpark.
02:47And you guys would probably agree, that's a really bad idea to build that much parking.
02:52So, imagine that out now at this future RFK site.
02:56I think it's way too much parking.
02:57Rather than looking backwards of, like, let's just see how many cars we can jam into this space.
03:02There's nothing in here for a metro expansion.
03:05There's nothing in here to get people in and out by transit.
03:08That should be the future.
03:09If this is going to happen, there's going to be a lot more investment in metro, in our transit.
03:14Get people in that way.
03:15$295,000 is a mess anyway.
03:17Now, we want to add 8,000 cars trying to fix it.
03:19That's not going to work.
03:21You guys would own the parking garages, though, yeah?
03:23Oh, this is one of my favorite parts of the deal, though.
03:26So, we would not only pay to build them, we would own them.
03:31And then, under the terms of the deal, the commanders get all the parking revenue from it, from the parking garages that we build and own.
03:39That's what I mean when I say this is a bad deal.
03:40It's a bad deal for the city right now.
03:42There's a lot of elements.
03:43If this is something that's going to happen, a lot of this has to change.
03:46Would that parking revenue only be for home football games, or would it be any time, like, Beyonce comes, or I do stand-up comedy there.
03:53I'll probably sell out $65,000, $70,000, I'm sure.
03:55But you know what I mean?
03:56Is it for any event, or is it for—
03:58The night out with Grant and Danny, when we're bringing in, you know, we're going to do the Pat McAfee bit, and we do $65,000.
04:04Do you guys make that money, or the team?
04:06The team does.
04:07So, the way it works is that this is a development deal, right?
04:10So, they're getting that.
04:11That's what the term sheet says, is that they get the revenue from all of that.
04:14That just isn't fair for D.C. taxpayers.
04:16If we're going to pay to build this stuff, which, again, I don't think we should be building 8,000 parking spots, that doesn't work.
04:23Think about another stadium.
04:24Think of Wembley in the U.K.
04:2790,000-seat stadium.
04:30They have 2,000 parking spots.
04:32Our ballpark has 1,250.
04:34There's no need for 8,000 parking spots.
04:37All you're going to do is just create a lot of people sitting in traffic, and then you're going to wall off the stadium, the fields, the river, with a whole just bay of parking garages, a whole wall of parking garages.
04:49I just don't think that makes a whole lot of sense, and that's definitely not what I want to put your public tax dollars into.
04:54So, I'm team parking lots, but I'm not parking garages because I want to tailgate, and I don't think I could do that in the parking garages anyway.
05:00But that is a legitimate concern for people is there's a lot of tailgating in Maryland.
05:04There's going to be very little at this stadium.
05:06So, that is an issue.
05:08All right.
05:09I will defer to you on the parking with your information.
05:12Here's where I want to push back on the bad deal thing.
05:15The Harris Ownership Group is forking over 2.7 bill, way more than I would have anticipated, 76%.
05:22Now, I know your point is it's $1 billion that you're spending, but my point is if you compare it to other projects, New Orleans, it was 33% private, 67% public.
05:32Tennessee, 40-60.
05:34Jacksonville, 50-50.
05:35This is 76% private, 24% public.
05:38And I know you're worried about the bottom line, but by the standards of what is now sports deals and stadiums and in cities and in the NFL, this is not a bad deal.
05:48Well, so we're all just now getting the details of this proposal as well as the term sheet, right?
05:54So, let's start thinking about the things that actually aren't included in those numbers because whenever you do the rollout, you're always, of course, given your rosiest assessments, right?
06:02So, I talked about all the revenue that we're just giving away.
06:07We're also giving away the land.
06:08So, the commanders will now control all that land to develop as they like.
06:12They're going to pay DC $1 a year.
06:14So, that's a lot that we are just giving them.
06:18And I don't think it's fair to say we're just not going to count that as the public subsidy.
06:23That's how they're going to monetize a project and then build a stadium.
06:26The other part they're going to do is with this seat license deal.
06:29And I get it.
06:30It's where a lot of NFL teams kind of do this seat license thing.
06:33But for a fan to go to a game, even at the lower price tickets, you're looking at $5,000, $8,000, maybe $10,000 for the license of that before you ever even buy a ticket.
06:45So, multiply that times $65,000 and you have just raised hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars off the backs of your fans.
06:53That's not the team putting the money in.
06:55That's you guys.
06:56That's the fans, right?
06:56All of us that want to go to a game, we're paying for it.
07:00So, between the $1.2 billion that a city would put in, between the billion or so through all the license fees, that generosity that you're pointing out starts to get whittled down pretty fast.
07:13So, I don't know if that's what the PSLs would cost.
07:15You may be right.
07:16That seems high to me that you would pay that much for the right to have season tickets.
07:20And I'm anti-PSL in general, but they are a reality.
07:23They are increasingly a reality, yeah.
07:25Yeah, it is part of it, right?
07:27But I want to go back to the $1.2 billion because there's really two parts I don't understand here, if you could walk me through this.
07:33We had Mendelsohn on yesterday, and he couldn't really answer this.
07:37I mean, he was very pleasant, and we had a good conversation.
07:39But there's not an answer that I've heard yet that works for me.
07:44And my question is, what is your plan that's better for the community, that's going to generate more jobs, that's going to do more good in that location, in terms of growth, tax revenue?
07:58I've yet to hear one thing, and everyone always talks about affordable housing.
08:01There's no housing in the city that's affordable.
08:04So, Tad, you're it.
08:06No, beautiful.
08:07I appreciate it.
08:08All right.
08:09So, there are many neighborhoods that we can talk about where we have been able to grow significantly.
08:16We've created housing.
08:17We've created jobs.
08:18But we didn't have to have a stadium to be the anchor.
08:20I'm going to pick Noma as an example.
08:22How did we rebuild the Noma neighborhood?
08:25First off, we put in a metro station.
08:27So, whenever we build transit, you will see housing and jobs follow.
08:33Noma station is now one of the busiest in the entire metro system.
08:37And as that neighborhood built up around the metro station, we now have 15,000 people that call Noma home.
08:4360,000 people work in that area.
08:46We have multiple grocery stores, restaurants that are all over the place.
08:49We've got parks, public spaces.
08:51Because when we put some public investment, but also we put in transit, we put in a plan, you don't have to have a stadium to get that done.
09:01So, there is an alternative.
09:02And I know that it wants to be framed as, hey, either you're for the stadium or you're not.
09:06And if you're not, you just want to see this empty parking lot and a rusting structure sit there.
09:11Nobody wants that.
09:12That's why I fought hard for Congress to give us the right to actually develop this thing.
09:16I just think that it would be a better development without a stadium.
09:20Because I think you could look at Noma or the Wharf or other areas where we have built huge spaces.
09:25We've put in public tax dollars into it.
09:27I'm not afraid to do that.
09:28But we've built out the types of things that are vibrant, exciting, resilient neighborhoods.
09:33And you didn't have to have a stadium to be the anchor for that.
09:36So, that's what I would prefer to see.
09:37But I'm also in a situation where if this is going to happen, if we're going to see a stadium, then I've got to drive this to be a better deal than it is today.
09:44Because it's not a good deal for the D.C. taxpayer.
09:47And I don't think it's a good deal for the fans either.
09:49I think there's a lot of work that has to happen.
09:51D.C. Councilmember Charles Allen kind of have to give us a few minutes here on Grant and Danny.
09:55So, is there anything to be said for the fact that there is a proposal on the table now?
10:00Instead of kind of thinking down the line of the idyllic rebuild that you're talking about?
10:06I mean, is there any more weight now that this is in front of us?
10:09Well, of course.
10:10That's what I mentioned earlier.
10:12We're no longer in the world of theoretical right now.
10:14We've got a proposal in front of us.
10:15So, my job as a council member is not to think about what would be fun and exciting.
10:20Because, listen, my ability to, frankly, almost even walk to the stadium on a Sunday for a game, that sounds pretty exciting and pretty fun.
10:27My job is to think about this as a council member, as a legislator, as a policymaker, being responsible for how I'm going to spend these tax dollars.
10:34And I'm hearing from a lot of constituents, a lot of residents, with a diversity of perspectives.
10:39I've got some people that say, listen, I want a stadium.
10:42I want the team back.
10:43I don't care how much it costs.
10:44Build the damn thing.
10:45I've got another group of neighbors who say, absolutely no way, no how, never.
10:50And then I've got a bigger chunk in the middle, though, who say, you know what?
10:54Maybe a stadium would be a good idea.
10:55Maybe that redevelopment could be something.
10:57But this deal isn't it.
10:59I don't think we should be spending more than a billion in tax dollars to do this.
11:04I don't like 8,000 parking spots.
11:06The team's not even going to headquarter in here.
11:08We'd be the only Washington team playing in D.C. that wasn't headquartered in D.C.
11:14So I'm hearing from a lot of folks that say, listen, this deal has got to change.
11:18We can do a lot better.
11:20And we're counting on the council to make it a lot better if this is what's going to come down the line.
11:25Politics question for you.
11:27Yeah.
11:27Ward 6 Councilmember Charles Allen is with us.
11:30Do you vote based on, like, D.C. abroad or based on your award?
11:35And what I mean by that is I saw somewhere that 71% of D.C. residents would want the team in D.C.
11:42I don't know if that's the same numbers you're looking at.
11:44But if that's the case, is it as simple as just voting based on your constituents?
11:48Like, you'd be going against maybe the vast majority of people?
11:51Or are you voting specific to your award and maybe your award number is very different?
11:55Well, we – our responsibility is to look at it from the district.
12:00So two points on this.
12:01One, I was having a conversation with a Virginia representative the other day.
12:06I'm not going to tell you who.
12:07And he was pretty excited about this.
12:08You cut out there for a second.
12:10What does his name sound like?
12:11Yeah.
12:11What does it rhyme with?
12:12No, I'm not going to tell you what his name is.
12:13No, we're kidding.
12:14We're kidding, sir.
12:14But he was saying, listen, man, the stadium would be great.
12:19I'm really excited about this.
12:20And I said, fantastic.
12:21How much are you going to chip in to build the thing?
12:23And that's where the conversation ended.
12:26But when you talk about the poll numbers, right, here's the thing.
12:30If I asked people, hey, listen, would you like to have a Lamborghini?
12:34I'll bet I'm going to get a pretty high number of people who are going to come back and say, yeah, that sounds great.
12:38Let me have it.
12:39If I then turn and ask the question, though, so listen, I'm not going to be able to rebuild your kid's school.
12:44I'm not going to be able to build that park, that senior center.
12:47We can't rehab or build a new one.
12:48The library, you're not going to get that.
12:52The numbers will change.
12:53So when the clients go out and just ask people, hey, would you like it?
12:56Of course you're going to get a high number.
12:58But the reality is we only have so much money.
13:01We are entering a recession.
13:03We have 40,000 jobs that have been lost.
13:05We have a budget that we're about to get submitted to us in a couple of weeks.
13:08It's going to cut maybe $800 million from core city services.
13:13And then we want to put $1.2 billion into a stadium.
13:16So I think we're going to have very clear choices in front of us.
13:18It makes a lot of sense.
13:20The $1.1 plus bill, whatever, I think you used the number $1.2.
13:24$791 million of that's from the capital budget, yes?
13:27That is buildings, projects, roads.
13:29That's not schools, books, pencils.
13:31What am I missing?
13:33No, that's how we build the schools and the libraries.
13:36That's how we build all those things.
13:37Those are capital dollars.
13:38Okay, so you're saying it's coming from the same place.
13:41I was told the buildings, the projects, the roads is a different account, so to speak.
13:45You're saying you think this will directly negatively impact what you then spend on D.C. schools?
13:50The capital dollars, yes.
13:53So if I have a capital dollar, which is building something, and I'm going to put that capital dollar towards building a stadium,
13:59that's a dollar I can't spend on a school or a library or a rec center.
14:03But that budget is like $10 billion, right?
14:04And obviously we have a lot of competing demands, so that's how we spread it out.
14:07But isn't that the $10 billion budget?
14:09This is like 7% of that?
14:12Of our total capital?
14:14Well, I mean, we budget our capital – our capital budget is basically budgeted out to the dollar.
14:21So it is significant.
14:23So any tradeoff is – it's a tradeoff, right?
14:25And that's what I think we want to be clear with the public and with voters on is these are clear tradeoffs we have to decide.
14:32And I think, again, I expect I'm going to hear a diversity of perspectives.
14:36I'm going to hear some people tell me this is the right investment.
14:38I want you guys to do this.
14:39I'll hear others that say absolutely not.
14:42At the end of the day, I've got to see a good deal for D.C., and we're just not there yet.
14:46This is why we like to have Charles Allen on.
14:49Last one for me.
14:50Yeah.
14:51I heard this.
14:52I want to know what you think about this.
14:54$202 million in site prep is needed at that campus anyway, meaning with or without a stadium, you're paying that.
15:02Why couldn't I deduct that from the $1.1 billion or whatever it is, just off the top?
15:07Because before you do anything, you've got to spend that anyway.
15:11Well, I think you're going to have any number of hypotheticals trying to figure out how to justify such a big number, right?
15:18In the same way that I supported us putting money into Cap 1, in the same way I supported public investment and other projects, there will be public dollars to help redevelop the site no matter what.
15:28And I think that we should be clear about that.
15:30I support that.
15:31But I have one proposal in front of me, and we've got to judge that one proposal.
15:35If there's a different proposal that comes forward that also puts that same $202 million into it, I would talk about that.
15:42That's also a public investment.
15:44But I might see the return on investment differently than a stadium that is going to net 30, 35 events per year.
15:51Councilmember, my last one super quick.
15:52Have you spoken to others of your colleagues who maybe share some of your concerns?
15:56And is there kind of a way that there's a middle ground potentially where you and others might say, okay, now this is a good deal for us?
16:03We will see.
16:05I've definitely talked with many of my colleagues.
16:07I've shared this with the chairman as well.
16:11I think he shared it with you yesterday.
16:12A majority of the council does not support this proposal as is.
16:16It's too much on the public taxpayer dollar right now.
16:20I believe I have several colleagues, though, and I think all of us should be going into this process to try to get to a better deal, try to think through what could this look like.
16:30I think that there is certainly room to see changes to the deal that might garner the full support of the council.
16:37But as of right now, that majority is not there.
16:39I lied, I have one more, if that's okay.
16:42Super Bowl, draft, Final Four.
16:46I get you those three things were well up over what you paid for the venue, right?
16:52Does that work for you?
16:53We got a deal or no?
16:55I mean, in terms of ROI, you mentioned ROI.
16:58Am I wrong about that?
16:59The suggestion is you could be upwards of $2 billion on just getting those events.
17:03This public investment alone means that for every home game, D.C. taxpayers are paying $4 million for every home game for the next 30 years.
17:13So this is a significant investment, right?
17:16If we build a new place, absolutely, of course, we're going to host the Super Bowl.
17:20No one should be shocked or surprised by that.
17:22That would be part of what happens here.
17:24In the same way, when we built the ballpark, we got to host the All-Star Game.
17:27It's fun.
17:28It's exciting.
17:29It generates some revenue that comes in.
17:30But compare that to what we could be doing, right?
17:34If you can create an arena like we have downtown that has major events pretty much every night out of the year,
17:41that starts to create the type of economic return on investment that gets you away from just the one-offs.
17:46How many Super Bowls are we going to host in the next 20 to 30 years?
17:49Maybe two, maybe three?
17:52You need to be able to see something that's going to have a lot of return on investment to justify this huge cost.
17:58And so I think a lot of people are going to push back on the total payout and try to get to a better deal.
18:05Congressman Charles Allen on Grant and Dan.
18:07Thank you for the promotion.
18:09Council member.
18:10You said you called him congressman.
18:11Oh, councilman.
18:12Sorry.
18:12Future congressman.
18:13Yes, that's right.
18:14Future.
18:14I'll vote for him at this point.
18:16I mean, we don't even agree on the stadium.
18:17He's my guy.
18:18I like Charles Allen.
18:19I appreciate it.
18:19I appreciate it, guys.
18:20And seriously, we always like having you on the show.
18:21Much appreciated.
18:22I'm writing you down.
18:23It sounds like it's a yes, then.
18:24We've got you as a yes.
18:25Soft yes.
18:25In our unofficial polling.
18:28I told you, I can't support this deal as it is right now.
18:31I think we have a lot of work to do.
18:33Well, seriously, thank you for the time.
18:34Really appreciate it.
18:35Absolutely.
18:36Thanks, guys.
18:36Absolutely.
18:37We kept him too long.
18:37That's Charles Allen.
18:38I called him congressman.
18:40Yeah.
18:41President of the United States of America.
18:44Overlord of the planet.
18:45Charles Allen.
18:45Charles Allen.
18:47POTUS on Grant and Danny.