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00:00The Commanders playing their home games at RFK 2.0.
00:04The only thing standing between Josh Harris' ownership group,
00:08a lot of Commanders fans getting a dream to come true,
00:12is the D.C. City Council now having to vote and approve this.
00:16The chairman of the D.C. City Council, Phil Mendelsohn,
00:18is scheduled to join us in just a moment.
00:20He's calling in now, so we'll get him on the line.
00:22But there is still a lot of work to do.
00:23Absolutely.
00:25Excuse me.
00:26It's not a done deal by any stretch of the imagination
00:28because the council needs convincing,
00:30or I don't know how many votes.
00:31I haven't done a polling or haven't seen any kind of data like that done,
00:34but there is a legislative process that happens here,
00:36but there is a lot of momentum for it.
00:39What is the process ahead, and how will it play out?
00:42Let's get some answers right now from the chairman of the D.C. City Council,
00:46Phil Mendelsohn on Grant and Danny.
00:49Councilmember, thank you for the time.
00:50We appreciate you.
00:51How are you today?
00:52I'm fine.
00:52How are you today?
00:53Great, thank you.
00:54Doing very well.
00:54So, as you know, here are a lot of us very excited
00:57on the sports side of the possibility of the commanders coming back
01:00to the nation's capital,
01:02but you guys still have plenty to say about that.
01:04So, let's just get your reaction to the news of the day
01:06and the possibility of this brand-new stadium at the RFK site.
01:10I would say I'm excited as well with regard to the possibility
01:14of getting the commanders back and getting a new stadium.
01:18Do have some reservation about the cost
01:21and how much taxpayers are going to be asked to spend.
01:23Mr. Chairman, what needs to happen for you to not be concerned?
01:29Like, where's the threshold?
01:32Well, we have yet to see the mayor's budget.
01:36So, we have yet to see what the impact is on spending.
01:40It's really kind of hard to know the situation.
01:44My sense is that the mayor's deal with the commanders
01:48is going to cost over a billion dollars.
01:52But we're just now starting to get some information on that.
01:57This may be shocking to your listeners,
02:00but the mayor has not chosen to share anything until now
02:04with the council, even though the council has to approve.
02:07And I certainly hope we don't see the same kind of situation
02:10that we saw last year in Virginia.
02:12So, I estimate that it's at least, well, no, close to a billion dollars.
02:19That's $500 million for horizontal construction,
02:22plus another $181 million that's going through an affiliate
02:26of the government for parking, plus another $175 million,
02:31which is pledged from future taxes
02:34to be invested in something like the year 2032.
02:39That's $856 million right there.
02:42Plus, the cost of borrowing, plus there are going to be improvements
02:45that are necessary for the metro station,
02:48plus there are improvements to federal parkland
02:51per deal the mayor made with the Senate last year.
02:54So, it's going to be at least a billion dollars.
02:56And we have not seen all the details.
02:59Councilmember, is your position that, like, one cent is too much?
03:03And I ask this because if you compare this deal
03:07in terms of private versus public money
03:09to the other stadiums that have been built in the league recently
03:12or to what's even been done in the city,
03:14by all accounts, this is a pretty good deal.
03:18Well, that's the mayor's spin
03:19because she does it in terms of percentage of cost.
03:22But if you look at the actual dollars,
03:25this is one of the more expensive public subsidies.
03:28At a billion dollars,
03:29it's one of the more expensive public subsidies.
03:32But wouldn't you also generate more revenue
03:35based on this venue than some?
03:37If you had a Super Bowl
03:38and if you had the NFL draft, let's say,
03:42in the city, the commissioner today
03:43said that both are possibilities.
03:45This could have been a missing ingredient, so to speak.
03:47The estimates are that that could generate
03:50over a billion dollars just with those two events.
03:53Well, let's be clear.
03:54The Super Bowl, we will get the Super Bowl
03:56with the commanders next year,
03:58and there won't even be a new stadium at that point.
04:01That would be nice.
04:02But seriously, Super Bowl is, what,
04:05once in a generation, if that frequently, for a city?
04:09The number of events is, what, 10 football games?
04:12Plus, you know, if there is something in the playoffs
04:17and, you know, maybe, I think the mayor's estimate
04:20was something like 10 other events.
04:22I don't know how many of those events are active.
04:24I think they said 40 major events and 200 dates.
04:28You know, aspirational was 200 dates.
04:31I did see that.
04:32It said aspirational at 200 dates.
04:35I think those might be weddings and bar mitzvahs.
04:37I thought it was more like 10 other events, like concerts.
04:44You know, just as a comparison,
04:46the Nationals is 80 games plus other events.
04:49The arena downtown is something like 225 events a year.
04:53Very, very different.
04:56And of the money that I just itemized,
05:01close to 200 million is going to come from future taxes.
05:05So we're, in a sense, cannibalizing some of the revenue
05:10from the site to pay for the site.
05:12I don't know that that's horrible,
05:14but just don't make the argument
05:15that it's going to bring in all this tax revenue
05:18when actually it's just going to,
05:21that money's just going to get reinvested
05:23in building the stadium.
05:25D.C. Council Chair Phil Mendez
05:26is kind enough to join us here on Grant and Danny.
05:28So, Mr. Chairman, let's say there is no stadium
05:31and you were going to build over there
05:33as has happened at the Wharf, around Nationals Park,
05:36although obviously that's around a stadium.
05:38So it may not be apples to apples,
05:39but I've been in and around the city long enough
05:41when new development happens, money gets spent.
05:44What would it cost you if there's no stadium there at all?
05:46And how dissimilar is that to the figures
05:48that you're quoting now?
05:50Well, I don't know that that's,
05:54that is not where I want to go.
05:55But if we were to go there,
05:58I think that there still would be an upside to the city
06:02because there would be all this new development,
06:04housing, commercial, retail.
06:07I mean, it's acres and acres of land
06:09that can be developed in a way like the Wharf.
06:12So there would be economic potential.
06:15But, you know, everybody's interest here
06:17is in getting a stadium.
06:19And that's where all the excitement is.
06:21I completely get it and I share it.
06:23It's just a question of how much does the private,
06:26how much does the public sector put in to subsidize this?
06:31And a billion dollars is a stiff amount.
06:37I don't think there's support in the council for that.
06:40And as I, as I've sort of said here,
06:43you know, the mayor is definitely downplaying it
06:45because I think she realizes that a billion dollars
06:48is an awful lot to ask,
06:50especially when she's proposing a lot of budget cuts.
06:53D.C. City Council Chairman Phil Mendelsohn is with us
06:57here on Grant and Danny.
06:58So you said that that's not where you want to go.
07:00I take that as you saying that's not your plan for that area.
07:04What does that look like for you in your perfect world?
07:07What are better alternatives
07:08to generate growth jobs and tax revenues in that location?
07:13Well, I think what I would like to see is that the,
07:19to the extent,
07:20to the extent that there's money that's coming,
07:26not from the direct,
07:27from the developer,
07:28that it is being generated by the site itself.
07:31And that's not exactly what this proposal is.
07:37In fact, it's not this proposal at all.
07:38This proposal is, as I said,
07:40$500 million for horizontal construction,
07:43plus $181 million from Events D.C.,
07:45which is our convention center authority,
07:48which gets hotel tax revenue for parking,
07:52and then another $175 million in a few years
07:55for additional parking.
07:57Plus the cost of borrowing,
07:59all of that is taxpayer dollars,
08:01and all of that is outside of the site itself.
08:06Understood, but I guess my question is,
08:08and forgive me,
08:09I'm probably just not smart enough.
08:11Right in my element here, sir.
08:13We're good at talking linebackers and running backs.
08:15I'm a football guy, right?
08:15I'm a sports guy.
08:17What is you,
08:18like, what would your vision be then there
08:21that is better than this stadium for D.C.?
08:24You mean as an alternative for land use?
08:27Yeah, well, yeah.
08:27If you don't want to spend the $1 billion on a stadium,
08:30Danny and I's point is,
08:31you're going to spend $1 billion
08:32to do something else there anyway.
08:34Does it generate the same growth, jobs, and tax revenues?
08:37I'm from Virginia, but I work in D.C.
08:39I go to Nats games every night.
08:41I'm at every Caps game.
08:43I go to Wizards games.
08:44I'm not coming there
08:45for a lot of the things you're going to be building.
08:47There's a benefit to a stadium, obviously.
08:51Yes.
08:52I don't think it's an all or nothing.
08:55The mayor negotiated this deal
08:57without collaborating with the council,
09:00without sharing any information whatsoever.
09:04I don't think it's an all or nothing.
09:06I don't think it's,
09:07well, we accept this deal that the mayor put forward,
09:09or there's no stadium at all.
09:12I don't think that's even close to the possibility.
09:15And, you know, I mean, I've seen these projects over the years.
09:23Do you remember the Capital One Arena back in the 90s
09:27that the city was going to put in?
09:28I think it was over $100 million.
09:30And then Robert Johnson came in and said he would pay for the whole thing.
09:35And suddenly Abe Poland said he would pay for it.
09:38And then the city subsidy went down maybe to zero.
09:41And that was after, oh, my God, we have to accept what the initial offer was,
09:48which was going to cost, I'm going to say, hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars.
09:53I don't remember the exact number.
09:55So this is not a take it or leave it.
09:58This is not an all or nothing.
10:02I met with the commanders for the first time last week.
10:06It was not to negotiate.
10:08It was like an introductory meeting.
10:11They were actually shocked when I said to them
10:14that the mayor had not shared anything with the council.
10:18Why do you think that is, by the way?
10:20I can't speak for the mayor.
10:21Okay.
10:22And I'm meeting with them again.
10:26And I made it clear to them that I want to be accessible
10:30and that I expect that we'll have lots of discussion about this.
10:35DCC to Council Chair Phil Mendelsohn,
10:37kind enough to join us here on Grant and Danny.
10:39So I guess what would you need then, sir, to be satisfied?
10:44In other words, what tweaks, what changes, what figures would need where you go,
10:49okay, now this makes more sense.
10:50I understand you've got that billion-dollar number, and that's a lot of money.
10:54What needs to change for you to say, you know what, that's a deal I can sign on to?
10:59It's hard for me to give you.
11:01You're looking for a specific answer.
11:03And it's hard for me to give that to you when I know so little about this project.
11:08I only know pretty much the PowerPoint that was circulated this morning.
11:13And that's not enough to be able to give you a better answer.
11:17Plus, I've not sat down and talked face-to-face with the commanders about what they need and why they can't put up more.
11:25Phil Mendelsohn on Grant and Danny.
11:29So to get an idea of where we go from here then, obviously it goes without saying you guys would ultimately need to vote and approve this.
11:37I believe there are only four council members on site today.
11:41You need seven to pass it.
11:42Is that the number I heard?
11:44Correct.
11:45Okay.
11:45I'm assuming the four that are there are for it, but I guess I shouldn't assume that.
11:49So you said you don't think there are the votes.
11:52Can you expound upon that?
11:53Are you pretty confident right now that they don't have seven people that would support this?
11:57Well, you know, the problem with my answering a yes is that sounds a bit confrontative.
12:03And I don't wish to be confrontative at this point.
12:06But I think that if this was before the council today, they would not vote for it, in part because we don't know enough,
12:12but in part because they would see the price tag too high, and in part because we have not seen what the mayor is proposing with the budget
12:21and the cuts that we know they're going to be in the budget.
12:24You know, let me just say on that, the mayor's budget was due on April 2nd.
12:29We will, if we're lucky, get it the middle of May.
12:31That's seven weeks late.
12:34And we expect that there's going to be close to a billion dollars in program cuts in what she sends to us.
12:42What is she cutting?
12:44And where is she getting the money for the stadium?
12:49And I think with those unknowns, it's hard to say that she would have support right now.
12:58One thing I'm curious.
12:59Go ahead.
13:00These things get worked out.
13:01Yeah.
13:03Go ahead.
13:04So I don't want the headline from you sports guys that, oh, my God, the council is about to stop to kibosh the stadium
13:14because I think that's premature.
13:18Sure.
13:19It sounds like you're willing to negotiate this deal as it's constructed.
13:22You don't think works, but you're willing to talk about it.
13:25Help me with an area where I'm a little ignorant of the research you guys have done.
13:28So I remember reading somewhere that 71 percent of D.C. residents in a poll wanted the stadium back in D.C.
13:36How much work have you done to find out what that number is?
13:39How many polls have been done?
13:41And if it's a vast majority like that, is it as simple as saying, well, that's what the constituents want?
13:49And how do you make the decision just as a lawmaker in terms of going with or against your constituents?
13:54I certainly think that as an elected body that the council has to be mindful of where residents are.
14:03And I don't question what you said.
14:06Seventy percent of residents would like to see a stadium, would like to see the commanders back in D.C.
14:12I would, too.
14:13I think if the question was different, do you support public financing?
14:19It might even be a majority that would say no.
14:22I know there's initiative underway, but I think what's most important for the council is to look at the return on investment.
14:30If we put in a billion dollars, what do we get back?
14:33If we get back a billion dollars over 30 years, that's over 30 years.
14:40That's not a positive return on investment.
14:43You know, the national stadium, which we paid for and we own entirely, cost $700 million 20 years ago.
14:54So now in today's dollars, over a billion.
14:58And it's, what, 20 years old?
15:01And they are already looking at a need for another roughly $600 million to be put into the stadium to keep it fresh, new, state-of-the-art competitive.
15:13So these stadiums do not have a 30-year lifetime in the sense that there needs to be significant investment probably after 15 years.
15:22So what's the rate of return over 15 years?
15:26And if the tax revenue that's coming in is instead going to get redirected to just pay the interest cost and buy some of the garages,
15:34basically finance to refinance the commander's investment, suddenly the rate of return on investment is much lower.
15:44You know, the research generally says that sports stadiums do not have a positive return on investment.
15:52I think that a baseball stadium with 80 games probably has a more positive return than a football stadium with 10 games.
16:02I think there's much more involved with the stadium, as in the excitement of having your home team.
16:08But I think it's important that we look at the return on investment, or ROI, and look at it with a critical eye, not a glossful eye.
16:22And that's one of the things the council is going to have to do.
16:25That's a great point.
16:26And you're right about that research.
16:28But I wonder how much it's shifting now with roofs, right?
16:32I mean, the cowboys, you had me cracking up when you talked about bar mitzvahs.
16:36That was a good line.
16:37But I believe Jerry's World has had 250 events in a year.
16:41So if you were to, I don't know how they would do it, but if they laid out the schedule for you,
16:44and you saw that they actually could have, you know, 200 plus events in that stadium,
16:49I would think that would make you feel a lot better then,
16:52because you've come back to the number of games and the number of events a lot.
16:54It's something that comes up on the show a bunch.
16:56But it is not now in a, there's a roof on this thing.
17:00It's not as big as 90,000 plus, right?
17:03You can have concerts, you can have soccer games.
17:05And then the major events I go back to, right?
17:08The Super Bowl, you mentioned you might only get one.
17:11Well, one of those and one of a draft.
17:13The billion's still a billion.
17:15I don't know.
17:15I'd love to go see a WrestleMania or a World Cup game, which we got left out of because we don't have a place to hold it.
17:21Those things, you only need to have one or two of those.
17:23And years and years worth of revenues generated, no?
17:26Well, I think you have to have a little more than one or two years.
17:29But I don't know if you're Grant or Danny, but I want to go to your bar mitzvah with 66,000 guests.
17:35I'm not that popular, sir.
17:37I'm great.
17:38At my wedding, I think we had 175.
17:40It wouldn't have filled the joint.
17:42Oh, I thought you were going to say 175,000.
17:45Oh, okay.
17:46That would be nice.
17:47Yeah, well, no, we have to look at the numbers.
17:50Yeah.
17:50My last question for you is what does the mayor need to do for you kind of going forward to help kind of shed some light on her plans?
17:59And like it sounds, I don't want to put words in your mouth, as you haven't been thrilled to this point about maybe being kind of left out of the process.
18:05What does she need to do in your eyes?
18:08I think she needs to be – I don't think – she needs to be more collaborative.
18:11And she needs to avoid what we saw happen in Virginia.
18:15I mean, I'm happy that the capitals decided to stay in D.C.
18:18But not to dwell on this, there was – the governor didn't work well with the legislature.
18:28And the mayor would do well to work with the council, which she has not done.
18:36It's awesome that you gave us so much time.
18:38And it's helpful, you know, because we talk about this all day long.
18:41And to get someone on who's in the know to answer some of the questions that we have, like I'm not even – I wasn't trying to be combative.
18:48And even when I say now, I just don't see what you guys could build there on that site that would bring back a projected $4 billion in tax revenue over 30 years.
18:58So if that number is not inflated to you, I don't really see another way forward.
19:03That would be better for the city.
19:04But it's nice to be able to say that to you and to hear what you thought.
19:07So thank you.
19:08Yeah.
19:09Well, again, I don't – this, in my view, we're not at – well, we have to take this deal or there's no deal.
19:16That is, we have to take this deal or there's no stadium.
19:19There is – there are alternatives.
19:21I mean, we've seen huge development, redevelopment in the Noma area of the city with no stadium.
19:27We've seen huge redevelopment with the Wharf.
19:29I was there last night, hugely popular, very, very profitable to the city in terms of tax revenues.
19:36No stadium there.
19:38I'm not making the argument that that's what we want to see at the RFK site.
19:41I think that getting the commanders there would be great.
19:46Let's just look at these numbers more carefully.
19:49And I think the city expense can be much, much, much less.
19:54Mr. Chairman, very gracious with your time.
19:55So I really, really appreciate it.
19:58Yes, thank you.
19:58Did you guys only talk football?
20:00Because, you know, the Nats did really well yesterday.
20:03I was at the game.
20:04It was like one of the best games I have ever been to.
20:08Today's a pretty big day for the football team.
20:10Yeah, you've got a baseball show here, sir.
20:12We do caps and everything else.
20:13Right now they're third.
20:14I mean, we love baseball.
20:15We're big James Wood guys.
20:17But right now, the pecking order today, stadium at the RFK site, which hopefully you're going to help us with as soon as you get off the phone here.
20:24And then we're going to have the caps in game five, Wednesday night, cap one arena.
20:30I'll be there.
20:31You want to hang out?
20:32Let me know.
20:33And then we got the first period instead of making us all have heart attacks until the third period.
20:37They don't do that, sir.
20:38That's not their forte.
20:39This is not what they made.
20:41They like to finish the game after you've already keeled over with a win.
20:45That's kind of what they want to do.
20:46Okay.
20:48Thank you for the time.
20:50And hopefully we'll see you out at Capital One Arena or maybe even RFK 2.0 in the future.
20:56Okay.
20:56Thank you, sir.
20:58There is the chairman of the D.C. City Council.
21:01So I think a couple things are important, Danny.
21:03He made it very clear several times over.
21:05While this is not a deal he plans on going for, he's ready to negotiate, it sounds like.
21:11That's number one.
21:12Number two, he doesn't want it to be combative.
21:14He even joked about the headline saying he's not shutting this down.
21:17But it does not sound like this deal works for him.
21:19And he did say, again, not in a way where he was going Dan Snyder all cap style.
21:25There's not enough votes right now.
21:27That's telling.
21:28Yeah.
21:28He referenced several times.
21:30The process here didn't include the council.
21:33The mayor is the representative of the city talking to the team, et cetera.
21:37Only, as he claimed, only one conversation between him and the team to this point.
21:41It was introductory, not to the nitty gritty.