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00:00I'm Matt Carey, documentary editor at Deadline.com.
00:03On Deadline Contenders, Doc, Unscripted, and Variety,
00:07we have for you now the explosive investigation discovery documentary series,
00:13The Fall of Diddy, about the mountain of allegations against billionaire hip-hop mogul Sean Diddy Combs,
00:20who faces federal charges of racketeering and sex trafficking.
00:25We are joined by director, executive producer Emma Schwartz,
00:28and director, executive producer Yoruba Richen.
00:31Thanks for being with us.
00:33Thank you. Thank you for having us.
00:36Before we get into some questions, let's take a look at a clip from the series
00:39which sheds light on a pattern of disturbing behavior by Combs.
00:44It really goes back decades.
00:46In this clip, we're going to hear Danielle Smith, former editor-in-chief of Vibe magazine,
00:51who recounts an incident which began with the magazine deciding to put Sean Combs on its cover.
00:58After the shoot, Mr. Combs wanted to see the covers before they were published.
01:06It was policy for us not to show covers to anyone before they were published.
01:12He called me at my office.
01:15I told him again, we don't show the covers, we don't share the story.
01:25I told him that I wouldn't be making an exception.
01:28And he said that he would see me dead in the trunk if I did not show it to him.
01:40I said to him, you need to take that back.
01:43He said something to the effect that, you know, he wasn't taking shit back.
01:52So then I said, I'm calling my attorney.
01:56And my attorney called him to say that if he didn't immediately fax over an apology,
02:02my attorney was going to reach out to law enforcement.
02:05And I think it took about 90 minutes to two hours and I received that faxed apology.
02:12What I've only recently come to realize through the members of the staff at that time
02:25was that he had actually, in the days before, come up to the Vibe offices
02:32with two tough guys looking for me.
02:36Wow.
02:38So Emma and Yorubi, your series really is exhaustive in its research of looking into
02:44this long history of disturbing behavior by Sean Combs.
02:50Goes back several decades, really even into the 1980s.
02:54Alleged assaults, gun charges, things of that nature.
03:00Why was he never held accountable for so long?
03:03Well, it's a good question.
03:06And it's a question, I think, that runs throughout, you know, our series.
03:14It's, I think, a very telling tale that we see a person with money who is able to, you know,
03:27increase his empire, his financial empire, his influence.
03:33And combined with intimidation.
03:38And that has, you know, that was for a long time, I think, how he was not held accountable.
03:46I think it's a very, I say telling because I think it's a very, you know, a story that we've seen
03:55continually in this country, that people with money and power are able to intimidate and threat
04:04and make threats and evade, evade accountability.
04:10And Emma, what changed?
04:12It seemed to be the critical move seemed to be the lawsuit filed by Cassie, Sean Combs' ex-girlfriend.
04:22Yeah, Cassie's lawsuit was really an important moment that catalyzed for a lot of people
04:28stories and secrets that they've been holding back for many years, if not decades, including
04:35Danielle.
04:35You know, one of the things that we really wanted to do in this series was help people
04:40understand Diddy's rise, his influence, and how he came to power.
04:45Because in understanding that, you can see the way in which people were afraid to often
04:51share what they were holding inside of them.
04:54You know, in order for Cassie to come forward with the kind of claims that she had, that
04:59wasn't something that was possible ten years ago.
05:02As a result of a new law that had come into effect, adults could come forward with experiences
05:08that they'd had that might be outside of a statute of limitations.
05:12But because of her prominence in the industry, as someone that people had seen coming in so
05:18young, I think it really struck a chord that if she was willing to stand up with her name
05:23and put forward her claims, then other people started to feel the confidence to do so as
05:28well.
05:29But it was a process, you know, we got into this project long before there was an arrest,
05:35long before there were federal raids.
05:37And as different news events sort of came out, as the video in the hotel came out, more
05:44and more people sort of began to feel that it was time for them to step forward.
05:51And sometimes that meant speaking with us as well.
05:53Hmm.
05:54Hmm.
05:55And that video from the hotel that you mentioned was truly shocking.
05:59It's we see it in episode four of your series.
06:03This is from 2016 CCTV footage of Cassie trying to escape, essentially, and then being dragged
06:13back down the hallway by Sean Combs, Yaruba.
06:16This was truly shocking.
06:18Anyone who's seen it is like it leaves an indelible impression.
06:21Absolutely.
06:22Absolutely.
06:23It's some of the, you know, most shocking, upsetting footage I've ever seen.
06:28And that really, you know, we have a moment in the series where people react to that.
06:36And it was really powerful.
06:39And seeing someone, a human, another human being treated that way is just incredible.
06:45Hmm.
06:46And I think it was a turning point for a lot of people.
06:51Hmm.
06:52And Emma, we hear in your series that it was a couple of days later that Sean Combs made
06:58essentially an apology video.
07:00And he said, oh, this was, I was at my lowest.
07:04He kind of makes it about himself.
07:06Like I was having a hard time.
07:08Give me a break.
07:09But then importantly in your series, you then speak with Cat Passion, someone who was involved
07:17romantically with Sean Combs much later.
07:20And this sheds new light on it that really allegedly the behavior did not change.
07:25Yeah, I mean, I think one of the striking parts about her story was that if you, you listen
07:32to Combs' video, he argues that, you know, this was just something that happened, something
07:37that's in the past, something that theoretically would never have happened again.
07:41And what Cat's story suggests, and obviously it's not an exact parallel, was that, you know,
07:49she saw him as somebody who was human, who she got to know, who she cared about.
07:54But little by little, there were, you know, signs that led to an indelible moment when she
08:02alleges that, you know, she was raped by him in effect.
08:05And, well, it sort of raises a lot of questions about, you know, how many people have, you know,
08:14experienced him, how long has this alleged behavior gone on for, both in the past and up
08:20to the president, certainly federal prosecutors, alleged that this kind of behavior has continued
08:26until really very, very recently.
08:30Hmm.
08:31For episode five, you also spoke with Phil Pines, who was a former senior executive assistant to Sean Combs.
08:40Yoruba, what light did he shed on the behind the scenes life that Sean Combs allegedly was living?
08:49Yeah, well, Phil worked for Sean Combs after even Cat.
08:55So it really brings, you know, sheds light on what was going on until very recently.
09:01And he talked about, you know, what his, his duties and responsibilities were as someone to, you know, prepare for these intimate parties.
09:17These are the, the freak offs.
09:22Yeah.
09:23He, he, he, he titled them the, what was it? The king.
09:28The wild king.
09:29The wild king.
09:30Nice.
09:31Oh my gosh.
09:32I can't believe I forgot that name, but yes.
09:34I mean, that's how he knew them as, but essentially, you know, it seems that they were very, at least parallel to the, to the freak offs.
09:42And what he had to do to prepare and to clean up for those, for those events, the kinds of people that were there.
09:51And, you know, the, the, how often they were happening.
09:55So we, you know, get a, and then also to similar to so many folks who worked for, for him, the sort of, you know, initial excitement and, and desire to emulate him to be in the business and be in the music business.
10:13And how those dreams were, were squashed because of his behavior and how he became disillusioned, um, because of Sean Combs behavior.
10:22So it's, you know, shows the pattern that we've seen, uh, all through the years, um, continue up until very recently.
10:30Yeah.
10:31Emma, you have a background with frontline, the PBS series, which is an extraordinary investigative program itself.
10:38You also worked on quiet on set, the dark side of kids TV, which created a sensation.
10:45Uh, maybe you can give me a sense of the legal vetting required for this series, um, which I'm sure was very extensive.
10:53Absolutely.
10:54Look, uh, everything that we do, we take really seriously and make sure that we, um, you know, uh, do a lot of research, do a lot of fact-checking, do a lot of vetting, uh, on all projects that we do.
11:08But, you know, especially on a project of this nature involving someone so high profile, someone under criminal investigation.
11:16Um, and there's a lot of work that you don't see in the final product that our incredible team did to, you know, double check that, um, and, and put forth people who, you know, we had been able to corroborate those stories elsewhere, whether it's, you know, material you see on screen or conversations we had privately.
11:36Mm-hmm.
11:39And each episode includes a statement from Sean Combs's, um, legal camp, but, uh, essentially what is the response from, from Sean Combs and his teams?
11:50It, it, it sort of amounts to, this was all consensual.
11:53And that the, you know, he'll have his day in court and will prove, yeah, that he's done nothing wrong.
12:01That's essentially what he's saying.
12:04Um, Emma, what is the, you mentioned that the trial is going to begin pretty soon.
12:10What, what can you tell us about that?
12:11What is the timetable for it as far as you know?
12:14The timeframe?
12:16Yeah.
12:17So, uh, I think it's early May, the, uh, jury selection is scheduled to begin.
12:22Right now, the defense and prosecution are, you know, debating the kinds of questions that they're going to include for jurors, which is sort of an essential part of the process.
12:32You know, who gets to decide what kind of background do they have and what perspectives do they bring to the table?
12:38And then it'll be, you know, is it six, eight weeks of a trial?
12:41And we likely will see witnesses that, um, you know, we haven't heard from in the past and some that we may have.
12:50Hmm.
12:51Hmm.
12:52And in the meantime, Sean Combs is being held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, Yoruba, that may come as a bit of a surprise to people that he was not released pending trial.
13:03And I see a surprise because he's so wealthy, but what did you make of the judge's decision to imprison him pending trial?
13:10Yeah, I think they pointed out the fact that there had been a history of him, um, calling, uh, and, you know, repeatedly calling on the telephone, um, and contacting potential witnesses and felt that, uh, it was, you know, best for him and to avoid, you know,
13:32the witnesses, potential witnesses feeling intimidated or harassed, um, that he, uh, that they deny him bail, which is what they've done.
13:44So it's now been many, like three months, four months of him being in, in the Brooklyn Detention Center.
13:53And they thought that was best to ensure a fair, a fair trial.
13:57Hmm.
13:58I mean, your series premiered in January.
14:00What kind of responses have you had to it?
14:06I think most of the people who participated felt very positive about, you know, the way that, you know, their stories were handled, which I think is something, you know, really important to us.
14:15And, you know, another thing to keep in mind is that, you know, our, our, our documentary was not the trial of Sean Combs, right?
14:22It was looking at his history and how we got to this point.
14:25So some of it is understanding, you know, the potent impact he's had in culture.
14:30Some of it is understanding, you know, other moments in his history and behavior that we can learn from that are not necessarily subject to what we're all going to be watching in the coming months, but hopefully it gives you a grounding in, you know, who he is and how, how we've gotten to this point.
14:46And I think also to people who, you know, may have remembered some of the events, as you said, we go back to the, to the eighties, looking at his history, understanding it in, you know, a new way and a deeper way, hearing from the victims of family members whose family members, you know, survive, who, who, who died during the stampede at, at CCNY.
15:13The driver you mentioned, who came forward for the first time to talk about his experience that night at the club and allegedly being bribed or tried to be, Combs tried to bribe him.
15:28So going back to the history, understanding, you know, as Emma said, what these events, you know, these events, these events, but also seeing it in a new way with new voices coming forward, sometimes for the first time.
15:44Hmm. Well, it is really eyeopening, riveting series. It's the Fall of Diddy from Investigation Discovery. You can watch it on Macs. It's streaming there. That's where I saw it. We've been joined by Emma Schwartz, the director and executive producer, and by Yoruba Ruchin, the director and executive producer. Thanks so much for being with us.