Over 48 hours after 26 people were killed in the deadly terrorist attack in Jammu and Kashmir's Pahalgam, the chorus for revenge against Pakistan and teaching it a lesson is growing around the country.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your primetime destination news,
00:07newsmakers, talking points and our continuing focus on that horrific terror attack in Pehalgaam
00:13and now it's aftermath. Today, Prime Minister Modi has stepped in, promised India will punish the
00:19terrorists and their backers. The big question, how far should India now go in teaching a lesson
00:26to Pakistan? Among our other guests tonight will be the former Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister
00:31Mehbooba Mufti. Kashmir united in grief and rage. More on that later. But first, it's time for the
00:40headlines tonight. Prime Minister Modi's war cry after the Pehalgaam terror attack gives
00:47mitti meh mila denge warnings as we'll pursue terrorists to the end of the earth.
00:52Defense Minister Rajnath Singh chairs and all party meeting in parliament. Rahul Gandhi says
01:02will support all the steps taken by government. Opposition parties say will stand with government
01:08for India's best interests. Pakistan calls India's suspension of the Indus Water Treaty, an act of war,
01:20blocks airspace for Indian airlines. India and Pakistan both cancel visas for each other's citizens.
01:29Pakistan rushes troops to the LOC, closes the WAGA border post. BSF scales down, beating retreats
01:36ceremony on the border. A BSF jawan who accidentally crossed over to Pakistan through the Punjab border
01:45detained by the Pakistan army. Constable PK Singh was accompanying farmers when he was apprehended.
01:50But let's turn to the story that's breaking at this moment. Just a short while ago at all party meeting,
02:20has concluded in New Delhi. Opposition has made it very clear they will back any step the Narendra Modi
02:28government takes to punish terror emanating out of Pakistan. Sources saying at the meeting,
02:34the Modi government has admitted to security lapses. All parties have unanimously condemned the terror
02:41attack. India united against terror. This on a day when Prime Minister Modi vowed to avenge Pehalgaam.
02:47The Modi government and the opposition on the same page. The opposition says it will back the
02:53government in this fight against terror. Listen in to some of the remarks made by opposition and
03:00government leaders after that meeting.
03:06government leaders after that meeting, they have only condemned what happened. And they have
03:10fully supported the opposition and government leaders after that meeting.
03:14The political party has kept their own thoughts. And one thing came in front of me, that the country
03:24to speak with a voice and a voice in order to speak with a voice and to speak with a voice
03:33and to fight with a voice.
03:38Today, the message of the country has been given to all of us.
03:51Pradhan Mantri ji ka jo manshah hai, Aatangvaad ke khilaaf, kari prahar jo harat pehle bhi karte aaya hai aur aur bhi aage karenge hai.
04:21The Prime Minister was not present at that meeting.
04:23Well that was bound to happen Rajdeep but yes the biggest takeaway that we can take from the opposition meet number one that the opposition is together they are supporting the government in whichever way the government chooses to respond so yes there is solidarity and unity in that but the fine print of the meeting I'll take you through some of the points firstly all parties opposition parties got together and objected why isn't the Prime Minister present at the all party meet and that is when the whole
04:51Prime Minister apparently as per our sources stepped in and said that the Prime Minister will be meeting with the opposition soon there was also a briefing by the IB Rajdeep of the opposition so the IB did brief the opposition on what really went wrong and what happened when it came down to security lapses of what my sources tell me Rahul Gandhi raised the question on why there was absolutely no security at the spot when this incident occurred and has accountability been fixed quote unquote is what Rahul Gandhi said you know on
05:21On a point where the entire opposition got together and raised strong objection was when the government told the opposition that this particular area this particular spot where the terror attack had occurred is not open to the public the central forces were not present because they were not told as per the government the local tour operators and the local security people opened this area to the public and at the time of the attack and this happened from the 20th of April
05:51the area the area was not open to the public post that day one there were about 500 people and sadly on the day of the attack because so many tour local tour operators started taking the tourists there there were about 3000 people present at the time when the attack occurred and this caused a fair bit of furor where the opposition leaders were concerned and they asked you know how could that even happen that the central agencies were not even informed
06:21But in the aftermath of it what about the communal harmony which has been disrupted across the country issues were being raised Supriya Sule was one of the MPs who did raise it on certain social media handles some of them belonging to the BJP an example was given of BJP Chhattisgara handle on how certain inflammatory tweets communal tweets were being circulated the government of course turned around and did assure and assuage fears of the opposition
06:51and reprimanded and reprimanded and reprimanded and reprimanded and reprimanded and reprimanded and reprimanded so net net Rajdeep ultimately the opposition did get together and say whatever action that you take we are with you we are united and the strongest action needs to be taken but yes the fine print of the meeting I just detained for you
07:06let's go to Piyush Pishra Piyush is the sense therefore that now we will have complete solidarity or are we expecting more meetings between the opposition and the government including some which could be involving the Prime Minister himself or will
07:20Rajanath Singh and Amit Shah be the ones now fronting the government's interventions with the opposition
07:26well that's unlikely Rajdeep because the government has now taken opposition into confidence remember that
07:36Balikar Junkharke the leader of opposition Rajaswab was asking for the government to at least brief opposition about the steps which the government is going to take or what the government is taking so looking at that now
07:48the confidence building measure has been taken where the government has briefed opposition about the steps those have so far been taken and the government has also hinted what steps could also be taken but like Priti was rightly mentioning about the biggest point which has come out of this meeting is on the security lapse the government has accepted that yes there was security lapse and that has happened because of the local tour operators
08:12they did not inform the government and the concerning agency about opening that particular spot and that is why there was not enough deployment of that one thing is clear that the government has made its intention very clear that it is going to give a befitting reply to Pakistan and we can also draw this from the kind of statement which has been issued by PM Narendra Modi
08:34so this meeting is going to certainly you know after this meeting no more meetings would certainly take place but yes the government has briefed opposition and the demand which was there that Prime Minister should also brief that has not so far been addressed
08:53Piyush Priti Chaudhary joining me with details from that meeting that took place a short while ago thank you very much
09:00now the focus was on what will the government do Prime Minister Modi today delivered a strong message to the perpetrators and sponsors of terrorism
09:09vowing that India will identify trace and punish those behind the recent deadly attack in Pehalgaam
09:16his remarks came during a large address during an address to a large gathering in Madhubani in Bihar
09:21it comes just two days after 26 people were killed in that brutal terror strike at Baisaran Valley in Pehalgaam
09:28Pakistan too is talking tough and has decided to deny Indian aircraft any airspace in their country
09:36take a look as to how the two countries are now engaged in a war of words
09:40India will identify
09:45track and punish
09:50every terrorist
09:52and their backer
09:56India's spirit will never be broken by terrorism
10:01terrorism will not go
10:05unpunished
10:07Prime Minister Narendra Modi turned to English while speaking at a rally in Bihar on Thursday to deliver a message to the world
10:17the Prime Minister did not name Pakistan but it was clear who he was pointing to in his first public speech
10:24after the terror attack in Pehalgaam that left 26 tourists dead
10:29Modi vowed to crush the terrorists and the masterminds behind the biggest attack in Kashmir since 2019
10:39Obama strike on security forces
10:41the
10:46the
10:48the
10:49the
10:50the
10:51the
10:52the
10:53the
10:54the
10:55the
10:56the
10:57the
10:58the
10:59the
11:00the
11:01the
11:02Narendra Modi government later briefed the opposition about the security situation in Jammu and Kashmir
11:24at an all-party meeting
11:25at an all-party meeting
11:31uniformly condemned here is a
11:32the
11:33or
11:34who is support the opposition is a
11:35call for the action
11:37earlier the Congress working committee met and passed a resolution
11:41calling for calm and reaffirming the party's resolve to combat cross-border terror with unity
11:48the
11:49the Congress however questioned the security lapses in
11:52Pehalgaam
11:53it is imperative that a comprehensive analysis is conducted into the intelligence failures and security lapses that enabled such an attack in a union territory
12:04enough security arrangement was not there at all
12:07meanwhile India scaled up its diplomatic war on Pakistan
12:12a day after announcing a series of measures including the suspension of the in this water treaty new Delhi briefed envoys of G20 nations
12:24reacting to the measures taken by India Islamabad said any attempt to stop or divert the in this water will be considered as an act of war
12:33in tit for tat measures Pakistan closed down baga border post suspended visas under suck visa exemption scheme and expelled Indian defense advisors in Islamabad
12:46Pakistan's airspace will be closed with immediate effect for all Indian owned or Indian operated airlines
12:54all trade with India also stand suspended
12:58while the diplomatic standoff between India and Pakistan escalates
13:03prime minister's turn declaration that all backers of terror will be punished
13:09indicates that New Delhi may be exploring more options to avenge the terror attack in Pehalgaam
13:15with Rohit Singh bureau report India today
13:19and let's raise the big questions today
13:24how far should India go in teaching Pakistan a lesson this time
13:30what will it take to make Pakistan close the terror attack
13:34what really are India's realistic options
13:37joining me now is an expert panel Rajiv Dogra is former council general to Pakistan has written extensively on the issue
13:44Lieutenant General Atta Hasnain is former GOC 15 Corps
13:48Colonel Ajay Shukla is a strategic affairs analyst
13:51he's looked at the area again for years
13:53and SP Veth is former DGP Jammu and Kashmir
13:56I appreciate all of you joining us
13:58let me start with you General Hasnain
13:59because at the moment when the prime minister speaks that we will take
14:04punitive action against Pakistan unimaginable action
14:10can you tell us what you believe are India's realistic options
14:14is this the prime minister's declaration of war in a way
14:18or do you believe that there are other ways in which we can teach Pakistan a lesson
14:22thank you thank you Rajdeep
14:25a good question all right
14:27but a little too early to yet say
14:29because this is a developing narrative which is carrying on
14:32and I think the decision of the cabinet committee for security yesterday
14:37was in such a manner that it gave gives India a window of opportunity
14:42an elongated window of opportunity
14:44even while diplomatic actions are going on
14:47even while other actions such as the Indus Water Treaty
14:51the holding back of the Indus Water Treaty is also under execution
14:58we will be able to seek out all the other options
15:01now what these options are
15:03I'm sure the military advisors
15:06the army commanders and everyone
15:08already have their plans in place
15:10they will be looking at it and discussing it
15:13and seeing the impact of all these plans
15:15at this stage for anyone from the army
15:19including me as a former co-commander
15:22it will be incorrect for us to say as to what those plans will be
15:26but I believe I believe that everything is on the table
15:31which includes the ceasefire going up in flames
15:36the targeting of various targets close by or deep inside Pakistan
15:42and of course the covert option continuing to remain open all the time
15:48okay I'll come in a moment to more specific
15:51but Rajiv Dogra your first reactions
15:53do you believe given the way Pakistan also has reacted
15:56closed Indian airspace
15:58both sides have decided to deny visas to each other cities
16:01India going as far as holding Indus Valley
16:05Indus Water Treaty in abeyance
16:07which Pakistan says is an act of war
16:09how do you see this playing out diplomatically
16:11is the first step
16:12diplomatic pressure to isolate Pakistan
16:16well my first reaction really is that
16:19unlike in the previous conflicts
16:23or previous crisis
16:25what comes to mind is Balakot and Kargin
16:28the international community got into the rack
16:31to cool down the temperature
16:33this time I don't see that happening
16:37in fact international community is fed up with Pakistan
16:41and the indications words in the air that one is hearing
16:47is that both USA and Israel have given their support
16:52at least global support to India's desire to take it to some logical conclusion
16:59so that the acts of terror which has become a regular hobby
17:03with Pakistan stops
17:05so that is the first step
17:07the second is that
17:09you know there are various ways of getting your objective
17:13what comes to my mind is 1971 again
17:17where people like Kissinger and Nixon
17:20could not divine what Indira Gandhi had in mind
17:24I have read the record of discussions
17:27when she went to Washington
17:29and she fooled them
17:30both of them
17:31so one is to keep the deception going
17:34and that is what Mr. Modi is also trying to do
17:38he is keeping the country engaged
17:40and there is a very subtle way in which he is doing it
17:43he went to Madhubani to involve people
17:45and then from Madhubani
17:47where perhaps no one could understand English
17:49he decided as an exceptional move
17:53to speak in English to the world
17:55so there are some very subtle moves in offing
18:01and let's hope that we are able to surprise Pakistan
18:05that should be the principal objective
18:07surprise Pakistan
18:09Ajay Shukla
18:10a lot of rhetoric
18:12a lot of anger
18:13understandable
18:14but cut through the anger
18:16and tell us what you think are the realistic options
18:18the first thing I would say Rajdeep is that the lessons of Pulwama should have been already implemented and learnt
18:32and the sort of lack of immediate readiness that was evident in that attack should not be evident during this one
18:42if we have learnt any lessons from that last attack
18:45we should not be hearing
18:48diplomatic statements
18:50right now
18:51what had we
18:52had we sort of
18:53taken the correct steps
18:55and I am not saying we haven't
18:57we possibly could have
18:59but have they taken the correct steps
19:01taken the correct steps
19:02the only sound we would be hearing right now
19:04is the clicking of
19:05the ceiling
19:06of the gun bay doors of weapons
19:08and of aircraft
19:10that were going to
19:11that would have been launched
19:12or should be launched
19:14to take action against Pakistan
19:16I think that
19:18the
19:20the sort of
19:22harsh rhetoric that we are hearing
19:24uh
19:25it would not be
19:26uh
19:27sort of
19:28so resonating
19:29uh
19:30had we had our
19:31weapons in place
19:32had we had our
19:33tactics in place
19:34had we had a clear idea about
19:36what we are going to do
19:37in the next terrorist attack
19:38take place
19:39because inevitably
19:40with a neighbour like Pakistan
19:42that terrorist attack
19:43is going to take place next
19:45so
19:46you are saying we didn't have a
19:47we didn't have a pre-emptive doctrine
19:48we don't have
19:49you are saying we didn't have a pre-emptive
19:51are you saying we didn't have a
19:52we don't have a pre-emptive strike doctrine in place
19:54as to how to go up the escalator
19:56as escalatory ladder
20:01this is this is not pre-emptive strike
20:03we we this is a strike in retaliation
20:05to an action that has been taken by
20:07the enemy
20:08right
20:09it's a sort of a
20:10an avenging action
20:12rather than
20:13uh something that we are behaving in a
20:15totally reactive manner to
20:17and I think you're absolutely right
20:19uh that
20:20that uh
20:21action
20:22the guns
20:23the weapons
20:24the tactics
20:25all of them should have been in place
20:27and uh
20:28we we should have
20:29in fact
20:30in my opinion
20:31already seen the first strikes go in
20:33those are very strong words
20:35you believe that we should have already had a
20:37in a way
20:38readiness for retaliatory strikes
20:40given the scale
20:41of this terror attack
20:42SP bed
20:43on the ground
20:44we are
20:45we are seeing in Kashmir itself
20:46uh
20:47questions being raised
20:48even at that all party meeting
20:50about lapses in security
20:51do you believe
20:52that that is also one of the concerns
20:54that we need to have our unified command in place
20:56the police the army the various
20:58security agencies on the ground
21:00need to be better prepared now
21:02good evening Rajdeep
21:05absolutely what you are saying
21:09coordination is most important and the unified command system has worked very well
21:15over the years we have all been part of it
21:19uh
21:20as far as a security lapse
21:22yes
21:23uh
21:24i want to in fact
21:26uh
21:27i would like to know
21:28how did this place
21:30uh
21:31open
21:32without security clearance
21:34who ordered
21:36who gave the permission
21:37for this uh
21:38tourist place
21:40to uh
21:41operate
21:42without
21:43pro
21:44ensuring proper security arrangements there
21:47these
21:48these are the questions which need to be asked
21:50during the investigation
21:52uh
21:53who was in charge of this uh
21:55area
21:56how did uh
21:58private operators operate
22:01without proper
22:02authority
22:03authorization
22:04i if somebody has authorized
22:06who's that officer
22:07and how did he
22:08authorize these
22:09uh
22:10tour operators
22:11to take tourists there
22:12in hundreds
22:13without
22:14security clearance
22:15you know
22:16all these aspects need to be looked into
22:18i think
22:19uh
22:20it is a big security lapse and
22:22uh
22:23uh
22:24i'm sure these things will emerge
22:26in the days to come
22:27uh
22:28during the course of investigation
22:29and inquiry
22:30and
22:31uh
22:32um
22:33the surprising part is
22:35the
22:36it is a very well planned attack
22:38and uh
22:40uh
22:41properly racket
22:42uh
22:43with the instructions coming from
22:44handlers across
22:45and
22:47somebody
22:48uh
22:49local has
22:50given help
22:51uh
22:52how did terrorists know
22:53that this place has started
22:55functioning
22:56i'm
22:57uh
22:58told only a few days back it started
22:59how
23:00this information
23:02uh
23:03reached to the terrorists
23:04without the local
23:05help
23:06spani tell us
23:07know this
23:08and
23:09right
23:10after all they must have been
23:11helped to come to this place
23:12raki eat
23:13they must have been provided food
23:15and other sports structure
23:17all these aspects need to be looked into
23:20Rajdeep
23:21right
23:22so those
23:23those are questions that will
23:24come towards fixing of accountability
23:25and presumably
23:26presumably
23:27hopefully
23:28there will be accountability fix
23:30unlike some believe
23:31was the case with Pulwama
23:33where the inquiry was
23:35seen by many to be non transparent
23:36but let's come to the central question
23:38which is now
23:39what next
23:40atas then you said
23:42as a
23:43as a
23:44army man you
23:45believe that
23:46this is not a moment to discuss
23:48specific options
23:49but in general
23:50do you believe
23:51Ajay Shukla just mentioning
23:52should we
23:53we have been readier
23:54with a retaliatory strike
23:56should there be
23:57a system in place that
23:59if there is a terror attack
24:00certain red lines have drawn
24:02we had a surgical strike
24:03after Uri
24:04we had Balakot
24:05after Pulwama
24:06should we have drawn
24:07the red lines
24:08far more clearly
24:09see Rajdeep
24:11I will agree with Ajay
24:13to some extent
24:15but I would also say
24:17that response
24:18is not
24:20just in one direction
24:22there is a whole spectrum
24:24of responses
24:25you can wait
24:27you can create a window
24:29you can elongate
24:30the waiting period
24:31you can keep him
24:32on tenterhooks
24:33he has already
24:34mobilized a portion
24:36of his reserves
24:37though the reserves
24:38are probably already
24:39inside portions
24:40of the Jhelum Valley
24:41some of them
24:42have probably also
24:43reached the areas
24:44in Punjab
24:45he's got an economy
24:47which is for the
24:4824th time
24:49he's going to the IMF
24:50that economy
24:51is going to get
24:52severely affected
24:53by mobilization
24:54for a long period
24:55so it's not
24:56necessary that you
24:57only go kinetic
24:58immediately
24:59you threaten to go
25:01kinetic
25:02keep him on tenterhooks
25:03and you are seeing
25:04what he's doing in Karachi
25:05he's already given out
25:07a warning
25:08that he would like
25:09to test his
25:10various missiles
25:11in the
25:12firing ranges
25:13across the
25:14Arabian Sea
25:15that should give you
25:17a clear inference
25:18that he's expecting
25:19that there will be
25:20a surface to surface
25:21missile strike
25:22by India
25:23somewhere inside
25:24Pakistan
25:25and he is sending
25:26out a message to you
25:27that I will respond
25:28right
25:29so you are realizing
25:30that this is what
25:31is going to happen
25:32in this case
25:33I would definitely
25:34like to offer
25:35one bit of advice
25:36we have clear targets
25:38on the other side
25:39in the form of
25:40terrorist hideouts
25:42terrorist camps
25:44and terrorist
25:45training areas
25:46Bahawalpur
25:47Murike
25:48all these places
25:49are there on our
25:50sites
25:51in our crosshairs
25:52if we happen
25:53to ever strike
25:54these
25:55will Pakistan
25:56strike back
25:57and if he strikes
25:58back what will he
25:59strike back at
26:00at any of our
26:01contornments
26:02that will be an act
26:03of war
26:04and you can be assured
26:05that India will never
26:06tolerate that
26:07and that will be the
26:08trigger for the
26:09commencement of the
26:10fourth or the fifth
26:11round of the
26:12Indo-Pak wars
26:13you know Ajay you just
26:15heard general
26:16has then talk about
26:17targeted attacks
26:19possibly at terror
26:21camps based in
26:22Pakistan
26:23do you believe that
26:24that is in a sense
26:26the option which is
26:27on the table
26:28or do you believe it
26:29could go well beyond
26:30that in terms of
26:31options
26:32well I Rajdeep
26:38am feeling a little
26:39alarmed at what I'm
26:41hearing from some of
26:42my other co-panelists
26:44which is that we must
26:45now start thinking
26:46about what we are
26:47going to attack
26:48all of that thinking
26:49should have been
26:50finished and done
26:51with after Pulwama
26:52the target list should
26:54have been brought
26:55allocated to various
26:57squadrons and await
26:59only a password for
27:00the actual launch
27:01we cannot at this
27:03stage start ruminating
27:05and wondering what
27:07are we going to do
27:08we must already have
27:09that in place
27:10we must be now
27:11doing it
27:12so I don't believe
27:14that in the next
27:16two days or next
27:17one day
27:18they are going to
27:19sort of produce
27:21these target lists
27:22and start the launch
27:23of you know
27:25vengeance strikes
27:26because there are
27:29just no signs
27:30of some of this
27:32thinking already
27:33been done
27:34the some of this
27:35thinking you know
27:37in order to close
27:38the time that you
27:39have for the launch
27:40of these things we
27:41should have had a lot
27:42of the thinking done
27:43already.
27:44Interesting.
27:45Rajiv Dogra amidst
27:47all this of course
27:48is the fear that
27:49you are dealing with
27:50a nuclear neighbor.
27:51the truth of the matter
27:52is Pakistan
27:53is a country
27:54which is
27:55nuclearized.
27:56Given that
27:57does that constrain
27:58our options in your
27:59view?
28:00Because in the past
28:01we've been very cautious
28:02after 26-11 we were
28:04cautious even after the
28:05attack on parliament
28:06in 2002 we preferred
28:08diplomatic coercion
28:09after 2001.
28:10Do you believe that
28:13diplomatic coercion
28:14isolating Pakistan
28:15is the option or
28:16disregarding the fact
28:17that they are a
28:18nuclear neighbor and
28:19striking within
28:20Pakistan?
28:21Well I'm sure
28:23people who are doing
28:25this business would
28:26have factored that
28:27in.
28:28But in response to
28:29your question let me
28:30give you some facts.
28:31Number one.
28:32according to some
28:33American assessments
28:34there have been
28:35nine occasions in the
28:36past when India
28:37and Pakistan were
28:38near the nuclear
28:39break.
28:40One of the most
28:41public ones was
28:42when Clinton told
28:43Nawaz Sharif,
28:44do you know what
28:45will happen if
28:46you go to a nuclear
28:48war?
28:49Is your army is
28:50preparing for it?
28:51So now the situation
28:53has become even
28:54more complicated
28:55because it's not
28:56just nuclear war.
28:57The situation has
28:58become even more
28:59complicated because
29:00it's not just nuclear
29:01bomb but it is also
29:04those little shells
29:05which Pakistanis are
29:06very fond of saying
29:08that little tennis
29:09balls and so on.
29:10The tactical news
29:12which can be launched
29:14from small tanks
29:15or whatever.
29:16And they are in the
29:19hands of medium
29:21level Pakistani
29:22military officers.
29:24So the nuclear threat
29:26is real.
29:27Nuclear threat is
29:28widespread.
29:29And nuclear threat
29:30is in irresponsible
29:32Pakistani hands,
29:33especially with the
29:34kind of general
29:35that Pakistan has
29:36as its army chief.
29:38Having said that,
29:39I think our bigger
29:40concern as co-panelists
29:43and as thinkers
29:45should be what will
29:46be Pakistan's
29:47next move?
29:48Will it launch some
29:49more terror attacks?
29:50Will it launch some
29:51more terror attacks?
29:52Will it launch some
29:53ceasefire violations?
29:54I mean, what is it that it
29:56has in mind?
29:57Does it have more sleeper
29:58cells who are going to
29:59assist the terrorists who
30:01are already in the country?
30:03So both, I mean, both are
30:05actions there.
30:06In terms of our action also, I
30:07want to recall that in
30:09Operation Parakaram, after
30:12Prime Minister Vajpayee, I
30:13think it is Prime Minister
30:14Vajpayee, had given the
30:15clearance to army.
30:16Army came back after one
30:18month.
30:19That is the time it took to
30:20prepare and said that now
30:22we are ready.
30:24What you are saying, therefore,
30:27but even in Operation
30:28Parakaram, eventually we
30:29stopped short of actually
30:32crossing the border.
30:33the reason I'm asking this
30:34and General Hassan, as a
30:35military man, you can say
30:36this, there's a lot of
30:37rhetoric out there.
30:38You know, let's cross the
30:40border, we will take on
30:42POK, we must take revenge.
30:44Should some of that, does
30:46some of them end up in
30:47being reckless?
30:48That we need to be more
30:50cautious, we need to be
30:52clever rather than be
30:53reckless, not be foolhardy,
30:55but be wise and be
30:57cautious.
30:58Rajdeep, your words are the
31:01truth.
31:02I'm sorry, I disagree with
31:04my friend Ajay Shukla
31:06completely.
31:07You have your plans in
31:08place, it doesn't mean
31:09that every plan has to be
31:10executed on the moment
31:11go.
31:12You have your hand on the
31:13trigger, it doesn't mean
31:14that you press the trigger
31:15every time.
31:16So as you said, Rajdeep
31:17yourself, there will be a
31:19tremendous amount of
31:20rhetoric.
31:21It's all going around there.
31:22You're seeing it on the
31:23social media.
31:24There is anger in the
31:25streets.
31:26It always happens that way.
31:27Does the government listen
31:28to the street?
31:29Does the government listen
31:30to the social media?
31:31The government listens to
31:33its intelligence agencies,
31:35it listens to the advice
31:36of its armed forces, and
31:38then takes the best
31:39decisions.
31:40And I have confidence in
31:41my government.
31:42I have confidence in my
31:43prime minister.
31:44minister.
31:45I want to give Mr. Shukla a
31:47final word to respond to what
31:48you heard from General
31:49Hasnain.
31:50I can only say that it is as if we
31:59are approaching a situation which
32:01we have never had to tackle before
32:03and never had to sort of execute
32:05various operations associated with it.
32:08We cannot now at this point of a sort
32:12of national crisis, we cannot now start
32:15thinking about what the options are.
32:18Is there a general in the Indian army or
32:22an air marshal for that matter in the
32:24air force who will agree with somebody
32:28who now says we must now think carefully
32:31about what we are going to go ahead and
32:33do.
32:34But that's what we are hearing from
32:35General Hasnain.
32:36What have we done so far?
32:38Why are we not in a more ready position
32:41to take action?
32:42These are questions which anybody who
32:45you bring to this problem will be asking
32:48in 15 seconds.
32:49I don't know.
32:51By the looks of it, it appears to me that
32:55nothing is ready.
32:56The plans are not in place.
32:58And as a consequence of that, nothing has
33:01been launched.
33:02No punishment has been executed.
33:04I hope I'm wrong.
33:06I really hope I'm wrong.
33:07But this is what impression comes out
33:09at this moment.
33:10I want to give Mr.
33:12Wey the word though on you were the one
33:14who raised the issue of the weaknesses
33:16on the ground, the security lapses.
33:18In your experience, will accountability be fixed?
33:21Whether it's the Jammu and Kashmir
33:23police, whether it's CRPF, whether it is
33:25anyone within the security grid in Kashmir,
33:27will accountability be fixed?
33:29And should that happen much later?
33:31For now, the focus should be on ensuring
33:34effective retaliation on Pakistan.
33:38Rajiv, accountabilities have been fixed
33:41earlier also.
33:42And I'm sure this time also accountability
33:45will be fixed.
33:46Ads must roll.
33:47Because it's a huge, huge incident
33:50and you can't let it go this way.
33:52Accountability must be fixed.
33:55I have no doubt about it.
33:57But I think that can wait.
34:00Let's first prioritize.
34:02Go after these terrorists.
34:04Punish them.
34:05Eliminate them.
34:06And groups like this are also operating
34:10in the hills of Jammu region
34:12and other parts of Kashmir Valley.
34:14We need to cleanse all these and particularly
34:17go after those sports structure
34:21who are actually helping them to bring
34:23these terrorists to these places for execution.
34:28And the larger part in which we are all discussing,
34:33I think that should be number one priority.
34:35Accountability of which can be fixed.
34:37Let me leave it there.
34:38Accountability will be fixed, you're promising.
34:41As of now, the focus has to be
34:43in what are our realistic options on the ground.
34:47Do we go as Ajay Shukla seems to suggest
34:50for retaliatory strikes?
34:53We should have been ready with them
34:54or should we very carefully take Pakistan by surprise?
34:59Clearly, of course, a TV studio is not the best space
35:02at times to decide what the exact options are.
35:05But I appreciate my guests giving us a sign
35:08of the big picture that may well lie ahead.
35:11Thank you all very much.
35:12I want to turn from there to the area
35:14which is at the centre in a way of what's happened.
35:17Kashmir, a region long tangled in a bloody conflict,
35:21often seen through the lens of insurgency,
35:24unrest, now terror, standing at a pivotal turning point.
35:27This latest attack, brutal and heart-wrenching as it is,
35:30has shaken the very soul of the Kashmir Valley.
35:33Something seems to be different this time
35:35from the voices on the ground.
35:37The targeting of innocent tourists has not only stirred grief,
35:41within hours, sorrow has given way to collective outrage.
35:44For the first time in over two decades,
35:46the valley shut down, not in protest against the state,
35:49but in unified mourning and defiance of terrorism.
35:52We've even seen anti-Pakistan slogans on the ground.
35:56Could this moment be a key moment for a shift in Kashmir?
36:03Also, we are seeing, as the nation grapples with the aftermath
36:07of the horrific terror attack, Kashmiri students
36:09facing increasing hostility in other parts of India.
36:12One such incident occurring at a college near Chandigarh,
36:16where Kashmiri students were allegedly attacked
36:18in their hostel late at night,
36:20and now the government has made it very clear
36:22they will take every, they will ensure security,
36:28and the Punjab police itself has been put under a huge question mark.
36:33Remember, there are various student associations of Kashmiris
36:36across the country that are calling for swift action to be taken
36:40and ensure that Kashmiri students are safeguarded.
36:45Let's then turn to someone who knows a thing or two about Kashmir,
36:49Mehbooba Mufti.
36:58And joining me now is Mehbooba Mufti,
37:01former Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir
37:03and leader of the People's Democratic Party.
37:05Appreciate your joining us, Mehbooba Mufti.
37:08You have described the Pahalgam attack as an assault on Kashmiriyat
37:13and apologize to the nation for the incident.
37:17Do you believe that what happened in Pahalgam
37:19will now unite every Kashmiri to speak out
37:23against Pakistan-sponsored terrorism?
37:27It has already united everybody because after all, you know, the tourists who come here, they are our guests.
37:36They, you know, come with their family, with their kids to have a nice time.
37:40And the way they were killed, you know, it has really, you know, touched the hearts of people here.
37:46Jammu people gave a call for banh.
37:49It was followed by Kashmiris for the first time in the history of Jammu and Kashmir during these last 30 years.
37:55There was a call from Jammu and Kashmir followed it.
37:58Things have changed and I think that, you know, what has changed?
38:02What has changed?
38:03What has changed?
38:04What has changed?
38:05What has changed?
38:06What has changed?
38:07What has changed?
38:08Because let's be honest, terror has existed and has killed hundreds of people for so many years.
38:14There were many years.
38:16No problem.
38:17Why not?
38:18Sorry.
38:19udho from Mr. Fiji.
38:24Which people have seen.
38:26You have to know, you have to understand.
38:28You have to understand, you have to understand.
38:29That this time was the first time the tourists.
38:31When the tourists came back there, they came back to their families.
38:34They took their children and lost their families to go.
38:35They took their children to Kashmir.
38:37And after that, it was happened that it was such a shock.
38:39And there was a no-assysis that they were sick.
38:41And it's no-assiness that they were killed.
38:43So I think that Kashmiris came to us and came to us and came to us and came to us and came to us.
38:50What happened to Kashmiris?
38:53Because the Kashmiris was released from here.
38:56So what happened to them?
38:59So today I think that Kashmiris came to us again.
39:02That there was such an event that Kashmiris was on Kashmiris.
39:08Will there be outright condemnation of Pakistan in particular?
39:14Because Pakistan has been the rogue nation that has allowed this violence to fester in the Kashmir Valley for three and a half decades.
39:23So will Kashmiris outrightly condemn Pakistan?
39:30I can't speak for Kashmiris whether they are going to do that.
39:33But one thing I would definitely like to not, you know, I am no one to advise anybody, but I would like to make certain, you know, a request to New Delhi.
39:44That since Kashmiris have, you know, come in, you know, against this attack, terror attack, and they have come in support of the country.
39:55You know, they are mourning like the country is mourning today.
39:58So the way, you know, Kashmiris have been given collective punishments, especially since 2019, I think that has to stop now.
40:07They have to reach out to, you know, because there were six militants.
40:11But just look how Adil Shah tried to save the life of the tourists by snatching the gun.
40:17How Sajjad carried the, you know, injured person right from Baisaran to the hospital, so many kilometers.
40:24How a taxi driver was the first one to take the injured to the hospital.
40:28So you have to look at these Kashmiris, not the ones, you know, who had guns in their hands and, you know, killed these people.
40:34So I think Delhi will also have to have a, you know, a change in their policy as Kashmiris have changed.
40:39So they have to use this opportunity to reach out to people of Kashmiri and not give collective punishment to Kashmiris.
40:47You're making an important point. You're saying don't give collective Kashmiris punishment to Kashmiris, but you're also telling me that Kashmiris have changed, that Kashmir has changed, that Kashmir has realized that this violence eventually is going to destroy Kashmir itself. Am I right?
41:04And definitely Kashmiris never wanted violence, but, you know, I don't want to go into history why it happened, why were the 87 elections rigged, why Yasin Malik, a chief agent, had to go to Pakistan to get the gun, why, you know, Yusuf Shah, Salahuddin, was a candidate and he was, you know, deprived of his, you know, win, and someone else was declared, you know, that he had won.
41:32Mahideen Shah Sahib, late Mahideen Shah Sahib. So I don't want to go into that, why Kashmiris went to Pakistan, why Pakistan took advantage of us.
41:40But the thing is that Kashmiris definitely are not for violence. They were never for violence. But situations were such that not many of them could speak openly.
41:49But today we took an initiative. I was the one who gave a call to the Kashmiris that let's, you know, have a shutdown.
41:57And it was not because of my call. It was because Kashmiris were in a lot of pain. They were also as angry as anybody in the rest of the country.
42:04So they followed that and the whole place was shut down on yesterday. And I mean, if you go to Pahlkam, you can't imagine how painful it is to see people there, you know, moaning.
42:16Everybody is moaning now.
42:17You see, because one of the fears has been that this has also stroked a Muslim-Hindu divide because people were singled out for their religion and targeted.
42:26Now, how do you bridge that divide? As you, as you said earlier, Kashmiri pundits were forced out of the valley and we don't know whether they will ever be able to come back.
42:35So there is a long road ahead to bridge this divide.
42:42Well, that's what I say that this is an also is an it's a very unfortunate incident that took place. Very tragic. I don't have any words to condemn it.
42:50But at the same time, you know, now New Delhi will also have to look at Kashmiris from a different perspective.
42:57Yes, the security issues are there. But while taking security measures, they will have to, you know, separate security from the common people.
43:06So I think, you know, you know, it has to be on from both sides.
43:13And as far as Hindu-Muslim divide is concerned, I'm very sorry what the national media, the so-called Godi media, they have been, you know, just spreading venom all over.
43:25They are not talking about Adil Shah, who saved, who took, you know, who died, who died saving tourists.
43:31They are not talking about Sajat, who took the body, who took the injured to the hospital and walked miles and miles.
43:38They are not talking about the taxiwalla because the army and the security forces and government came later to help.
43:46It was the locals who helped, who gave their blood. Nobody, they were Muslims, all Kashmiris.
43:51But they are not talking about them. They are only talking about the terrorists. We are not a terrorist.
43:56Terrorists have no religion. We have seen what's happening in many parts of the country, what all things they speak about, how Muslims have been lynched.
44:04But that doesn't mean every Hindu is a, you know, lynch man.
44:09My, my, my only point...
44:11And I think it's very bad on the national media.
44:13No, I, Mehbooba, Mehbooba Mufti, I don't hold a candle for the rest of the media.
44:18But I'm very clear in my mind, at the end of the day, what happened in Pahlgaam was unacceptable.
44:24The manner in which people did use religion in this instance to target Hindu tourists.
44:30But I will ask you this, ma'am. Do you believe that now...
44:34Who people? Who people, Rajji?
44:36The terrorists. The terrorists. The terrorists.
44:38Who people? The terrorists.
44:39Answer my question, who people? Who people? Terrorists, but you can't, you know, say that Kashmiris are the terrorists.
44:47Terrorists. Terrorists. I didn't say that. Like you have...
44:49I, I use the word terrorists.
44:51Who lynch Muslims. Who lynch Muslims.
44:53Yes, I, I, you know, I... Yeah.
44:55I use the word terrorists. I use the word terrorists who have used religion.
44:59They are terrorists. Terrorists.
45:00I take your point. I take it.
45:02Yeah, but that's what they want. They want, they want to put the, put the whole country on fire in the same manner as the Godi media is doing.
45:10They want this Hindu-Muslim divide to grow bigger and bigger so that there is unrest in the whole country.
45:19That's what the terrorists want and that's what the Godi media is doing.
45:23But you are telling me today on the show, you will stand, you are telling me on the show, you will stand shoulder to shoulder with the Indian government,
45:31with whatever action they take against Pakistan, and that you will, that Kashmiris will stand shoulder to shoulder with every Indian in grief and anger.
45:44Of course, we are with the Indian people at this point of time, where are, when they are mourning.
45:49As far as India-Pakistan relations are concerned. Rajdeep, we Kashmiris have been the worst kind of victims of this animosity between the two countries.
45:57We have seen ups, we have seen downs, we have seen more downs during the relationship.
46:02And unfortunately, when there is a down between the two countries, we suffer the most.
46:07When there is an up between the two countries, we don't get benefited much out of that.
46:12So, you know, either way, you know, we are the sufferers. We are the ones, you know, as somebody said, when, you know, two elephants, whether they fight or they, you know, love each other,
46:21it is the grass that gets trampled upon. So we are the grass, Kashmiris are the grass that get trampled upon.
46:28Yes, but as we've seen in the process, the valley has got bloodied.
46:33Let us hope and pray, Mehbooba Mufti, that this is a wake-up call.
46:38And therefore, this wake-up call results in actually healing and bridging some of the divides that have, in a sense, as I said, spread havoc over the last three and a half decades.
46:51I appreciate you joining me, Mehbooba Mufti.
46:54Thank you so much.
46:58Thank you, Rajiv. I mean, whatever prayers you made, I mean, for that.
47:10And in that interview, Mehbooba Mufti spoke about some of the Samaritans, the good Samaritans of Pahlgaam.
47:17Now, remember, all the visuals have been of the victims, those who tragically died in their terror attack.
47:24But there are those, tourist guides, mule owners and others in Pahlgaam,
47:28many of whom went out of their way to rescue tourists, suffering shock injuries.
47:34One of them, in fact, died shielding tourists, while others literally trekked for kilometres
47:39to bring the bleeding injured to a hospital in Pahlgaam and Anantnaag.
47:45These are the unsung heroes, in a way, the Samaritans of Pahlgaam.
47:50Their story also needs to be told.
47:53Meer Fareed now reports.
47:55Now reports.
48:04Nazakat Ahmed Shah survived the Pahlgaam terror attack
48:08and saved all eleven tourists from Chhattisgarh, whom he accompanied.
48:15Nazakat missed the funeral of his cousin, Aadil Hussain Shah, shot dead by the terrorists while saving tourists.
48:22Nazakat, our brother, Adil Hussain Shah,
48:39Aadil Hussain Shah, shot dead by the terrorists while saving tourists.
48:46At Aadil's house, grief sits heavy with pride.
49:06Thirty-year-old, Aadil Hussain, sacrificed his life to save tourists.
49:13Aadil and Nazakat are not the only ones.
49:30Sajjad took an injured tourist, bleeding from his gunshot wound, on his back
49:37and trekked all the way to hospital.
49:39They were the first responders, locals, some tourists,
50:08some mule owners, all together ensure that lives were saved.
50:16Aadil Hussain Shah.
50:20Aadil Hussain Shah.
50:24Aadil Hussain Shah.
50:29people are sad there is somber uh it is deserted and right now they're like they can't even think
50:58of opening their shops because they're still in uh in in absolute sadness and they want that the
51:05people who are behind this attack should be punished fittingly so that a precedent is set
51:10with campus and muzaffer ehmad meer farid the biser and for india today
51:17grief and rage my take no people have suffered as much from park-sponsored terror as much as the
51:25people of jammu and kashmir thousands of kashmiris have died a majority of them local kashmiri muslims
51:33kashmiri pundits have been driven out of their homes in the 1990s never to return now this attack on
51:40innocent tourists has exposed the malevolent pakistani army state and its terror network and its attempt
51:48to use terror to spread fear and only bloody the kashmir valley further which is why this is an
51:55opportune moment for every kashmiri to stand shoulder to shoulder in collective grief and anger kashmir is
52:03an integral part of india a symbol of india's unique plural ethos which pakistan is attempting to undermine
52:10to stir a communal divide islamist terror sponsored by pakistan must not win kashmir must take the lead
52:20the nation must and will follow the idea of india as this unique multi-religious country must win in the
52:30end i want to leave you tonight though with images images of the victims of pehelgaam each of them
52:39sons daughter sons fathers husbands all of them innocent indians hoping to celebrate a wonderful life
52:51instead they were cruelly gunned down please say a prayer today for each and every one of them good night
53:00good-bye namaskar jai hind
53:13good-bye namaskar jai hind
53:26good-bye namaskar jai hind
53:32good-bye namaskar jai hind
53:46good-bye namaskar jai faites
53:48good-bye namaskar jai hind
54:00good-bye namaskar jai
54:09Happy New Year!
54:39We have a lot of talent from my brother's dad.
55:03We will remain in the same place tomorrow.
55:07That's it.