The approval of the Waqf Amendment Bill in Parliament has stirred political unease in Bihar, particularly for the BJP’s allies rooted in social justice politics.
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00:00Good evening and welcome. You're watching the news track. I'm Rahul Kamal. The government has pushed through the Vafq Amendment Act
00:05The question is how are Muslims and non-muslims looking at what the government has done?
00:11Do they agree with it? Do they disagree with what impact might this have on the Bihar elections in a few months from now?
00:16We'll try and capture the word out in the street in today's edition of the political stop
00:21Showdown over Vafq law escalates
00:31Vafq war reaches Supreme Court
00:40Is the new law fair?
00:45Do citizens see umeed in law?
00:55Will Vafq impact Bihar polls?
01:05Opinion poll on Vafq reform. That is our political stock exchange
01:12The Vafq law has come into effect from today. It's cleared the test in parliament but the showdown over the act is far from over
01:19At least 12 petitions have been filed in the Supreme Court all demanding that the Umeed Act be done away with
01:25The hearing is set for next week. Meanwhile the centre has filed a caveat saying the government's side must be heard before the courts respond
01:34Vafq war is happening in Kashmir
01:42Uproar in the J&K assembly with clashes erupting between the National Conference and the opposition
01:49The big flashpoint, the Vafq act
01:52The dispute intensified as opposition members led by the PDP demanded a resolution against the act
02:01Even as National Conference, lawmakers were pushing for a discussion on the issue
02:0624 crore muslims all over the country are upset with the Vafq bill
02:13It's a muslim majority state. This house is working on BJP
02:19What resolution?
02:20Resolution against the Vafq Amendment Act
02:22We want a discussion on the anti-muslim, anti-national, anti-democracy, anti-secularism bill
02:29We want to expose the lies of the BJP
02:32This bill has been made by the parliament. Both the parliaments have discussed it
02:36It's fine if the parliament has made it. It's our right to talk about it
02:41They are asking for a discussion on a baseless issue. They also know that it has been passed in the Lok Sabha
02:47It has been signed by the President. Even if the matter is subsidised, it can't be done in a day
02:52The Speaker has to run the house. There are rules on it
02:56At least 12 petitions have been filed in the Supreme Court
02:59They argue that the amendments of the Vafq Act violate fundamental rights
03:04including the right to equality and freedom of religion
03:08They demand that the law be kept in abeyance
03:11Among those who have knocked at the doors of the top court is NDLI, JDU's minority leader, Mohammad Parvez Siddiqui
03:19At least 5 Muslim JDU leaders have already quit the party in protest
03:24I will fight this legal battle in JDU
03:30I am confident that we will win this battle
03:34We hope that the Supreme Court will decide in the interest of the Muslims of the country
03:42Before the petitions come up for hearing in the Supreme Court, the centre has filed a caveat requesting the apex court to hear its stand too
03:52The BJP is seeing a political design behind the pleas against the Vafq law
03:57There is a discord between all of them
04:00They are only trying to create confusion
04:04They want to show that we are more against this bill than you
04:08Kamnal Kund's conspiracy group wants to create an atmosphere of conflict, chaos and create an atmosphere of confusion
04:18and run their political shops
04:21As the political war over the law rages on, all eyes are on the Supreme Court that is set to hear the petitions next week
04:29Bureau report, India Today
04:51This is the political stock exchange
04:53Yashwant Deshmukh, the lead psephologist, joins us to discuss the results
04:57Of the sample size, 20% of the respondents are Muslims
05:04The sample size is about 1500
05:06This is done in the Hindi speaking belt, largely in North India, not so much in the South
05:11With a special focus on the impact on the Bihar elections
05:14There are some questions, I will spend some time and there are some just to establish the study
05:18I want to welcome our other guest joining us at this time
05:21Rauf Rahim is a senior advocate in the Supreme Court
05:24He joins us, I have Deshratan Nigam, again an advocate in the Supreme Court
05:28Works very closely with the RSS
05:30I have Rajat Sethi with us on this broadcast
05:32I have Tasneem Ahmed Rahmani, President of the Muslim Political Council of India
05:37I want to take the first couple of questions
05:39Have you heard the term Vafq before?
05:41Try and establish a baseline
05:43What is the general understanding that people have
05:46Or what they think is the understanding they have
05:48Around what Vafq means
05:50Land donated by someone
05:52So amongst the Muslims, quite naturally, 77% say yes, we know what Vafq is
05:56Even others claim, 6 out of 10 claim, they have heard of the term Vafq
06:01And have some sense of what this means
06:03How familiar are you with the concept of Vafq?
06:06You've heard the term, what does it mean?
06:08Do you understand how this operates?
06:13So obviously, 63% of Muslims say, yeah, of course, we're very familiar with the term
06:1711% say they're somewhat familiar
06:19Amongst the non-Muslims, 22% say they're very familiar
06:221 in 5
06:2319% say they're somewhat familiar
06:2632% say they're not very familiar
06:28And 17% say they're not familiar at all
06:31Now this is crucial before I bring you the operational part of the survey
06:34Because amongst 80% of the respondents who you will hear from
06:39The large bulk are saying they're not very familiar or not familiar at all
06:44So about 50 odd percent are saying we don't know very much
06:4819% are saying we know a little bit
06:51Only 1 in 5 of that 80% are saying they're very familiar
06:54So do keep this in mind as you look at the responses to these questions
06:58Let's come to the first question
07:00Do you believe the Vafq bill is fair?
07:03Do you believe the new Vafq law is fair?
07:05What do you think of it?
07:07Here, 59% of non-Muslims think yes, the new act is fair
07:14Only 6% of Muslims think the new Vafq law is fair
07:19In comparison, 88% of Muslims think no, the Vafq law is not fair
07:25While 22% of non-Muslims say it's not fair
07:29So non-Muslims think oh it's fantastic
07:32Even though a large part of that 80% say they don't really know what the concept of Vafq is
07:37And amongst Muslims, 88% say that this is not fair
07:42Yashwant Deshmukh, I'll start with you
07:44I know you're nursing a bad throat, so pardon him if he sounds like Amitabh Bachchan
07:48But broadly, there is a massive disparity along the lines of religion
07:54On the issue of the Vafq bill
07:56The non-Muslims seem to say yes, this is good that it's going through
08:00This is a fair law from what they've understood
08:03And Muslims say no, they don't think this is fair
08:05Exactly Rahul, and this shows the kind of partisanship in the society we are watching at this point of time
08:13It's not just political, but it is also on the communal and religious lines
08:17Having said that, there are many other questions which we will be discussing in the program as we progress
08:23And you will also realise by looking at those questions
08:27And I am asking, looking at the data myself Rahul
08:30Whether the answers, or whether the distrust as the minorities are showing in this poll
08:36Has anything to do with the institutions
08:38Or has everything to do with those in power and the way they are proceeding with the bill
08:44So that is an important point
08:46Because in many of the questions, I also tend to realise
08:50That Muslims at large are not really completely averse to the idea of openness and more transparency
08:59But it's the implementation part somehow
09:02The way it is being done, it is being carried out
09:05The way it is being debated
09:07That is something which is carrying the weight
09:09It's more of a narrative setting
09:11And which is very evident
09:13How the narrative is set among the non-Muslims
09:16Let Deshratha Nigam respond to this
09:18The fact that only 6% of Muslims think this bill is fair
09:2388% think it's not fair
09:25You know it's been pushed through, the government has the numbers
09:27It's now a law
09:29But the fact that the people most directly impacted in large percentage
09:34Think that this bill is not fair
09:36Is that really reflective of the inability to win over public sentiment
09:41Amongst those most impacted by the new act?
09:45Well Rahul, in fact there was a protest in Delhi
09:48And a lot of social media people and the mainstream channels also went there
09:53And they were surveying people asking questions
09:56And there 99% of the people didn't know what Waqf is
10:00So the problem out here is
10:03Not about what Waqf is
10:05It's about the perception that is going around the people
10:08So what is actually happening on the ground
10:11Is certain kind of leaders who are spreading
10:14You know all kinds of rumors among them
10:16Are creating some kind of perception
10:18Because that is all politically motivated
10:20Here nobody has touched the Waqf
10:22Waqf will have Waqifs and Mutawwilis
10:25Who will be followers of Islam
10:28Therefore only its impact as a judicial aspect
10:32Is secular
10:33In India which is governed by constitution
10:36The judicial system in India at all levels is secular
10:39The judicial system as Amit Shah also pointed out during his speech
10:42In the parliament, Kiran Riju also
10:45The redressal grievance mechanism that is there
10:48Grievance redressal mechanism, I'm sorry
10:50That is there, is secular
10:53So there is nothing wrong in it
10:55So that perception that people are creating
10:57And if you scratch this 88% that you are showing
11:00I'm 100% sure as it was done in the past
11:03They do not know anything about Waqf
11:05It's the perception that
11:07So let Rauf Rahim respond to this
11:09Because you have looked at this Mr. Rahim
11:11More from a legal perspective when you have your reservations about it
11:15Deshr-e-Nigam makes the fact that the overall understanding
11:18Of the nuances of the law in the general public
11:22Muslim and non-Muslim is limited
11:24Therefore it is more about the political narrative
11:27The messaging and how people perceive
11:29And decode the actions of the government
11:31Whether they trust that or not
11:33Rather than what they actually understand of the nuances of the bill
11:37See the important thing is
11:39Let's not mix politics with the bill
11:41There is no point, we have to analyze the bill
11:44As literate people
11:45Those who can't understand the bill
11:47There is no point going to them
11:49The Sachar committee came up and said that this
11:51The Muslim community
11:53Is now in a very bad state
11:57So far as education etc. is concerned
11:59So let's not ask them
12:01Who don't know about the bill
12:03Let's take the literate Muslim
12:05Who would stand up and analyze
12:08As to what are the nuances in the bill
12:11And why the need for amendment
12:13The important thing is why the need for amendment
12:16The judicial redressal
12:18Being secular
12:20Is not something new
12:22Judicial redressal is always secular
12:24You can't say that judicial redressal
12:27Is not secular in this country
12:29So what has to be firstly seen is
12:31The amendments which have come forward
12:34On a one-to-one basis
12:36One should sit down and analyze
12:38As to what was there in the 1995 act
12:41What came by way of amendment in the 2013 amending act
12:46And what is new
12:48And so very pervasive
12:51That hits the Muslim community as a whole
12:53That has to be analyzed
12:55The legislature in its wisdom
12:57Framed the 1954 act
12:59Then came the 1984 act
13:01Which after the 1954 act
13:03There were three amendments
13:05Then the 1995 act came
13:07Which covered the entire country
13:09Previously Bengal and Uttar Pradesh
13:11Had their own vax laws
13:13And then came the 2013 amendment
13:16Now the legislature in its wisdom
13:19Incorporated certain salient features
13:22In the 2013 amendment
13:24Which according to me
13:26If they had been worked
13:28Even if they had been worked half way
13:30Though no need would have come
13:32For the present amendment
13:33There would have been no need
13:34And I say no need for one reason
13:36Is that I am a PIL petitioner
13:38In the supreme court
13:40I myself said that there has been
13:42No survey process going on
13:44And all the states
13:46Have come up in unison and said
13:48There has been no survey
13:50In terms of the amending act
13:52There all the states are on affidavit
13:55So at a stage if there is no survey
13:58The most fundamental thing is not happening
14:00Which is the properties are not surveyed
14:06Then the chance of encroachment increases
14:09So if the chance of encroachment increases
14:13It gives birth to a number of litigations
14:17So today what was very very
14:19And I say very very simple
14:21Has been just made into a mounting problem
14:24I don't see any reason
14:26Why these amendments have come in
14:28And why and I say again
14:30Why the 2000 amendments were not
14:32Carried forward for 12 years
14:34There has been no effort at all
14:36For last 12 years
14:37So that's an important point you make
14:39We should first try to implement the law
14:41As it stood earlier
14:42Rather than trying
14:43And you are raising questions
14:44About the need for the new law
14:45Is the new WAF law targeting the Muslim community
14:48Let's take a look at the responses to this question
14:51Overall 31% say yes it targets the Muslim community
14:54But let's look at the Muslims
14:5687% feel targeted
14:57Those are big numbers
14:5922% of the non-Muslims say
15:01That the Muslims are being targeted
15:04I want to put that question to Rajat Sethi
15:06Rajat, 87% of the Muslims say
15:09They are being targeted
15:1088% think the new law is not fair
15:13Now that is
15:14And you understand statistics
15:16That is like a very high percentage of people
15:19Who don't feel comfortable
15:21Who are most impacted
15:22By what the government has done
15:23They don't think it is the right thing to do
15:25So Rahul I think this is
15:28This is clearly the pitfall
15:30Of having serious public policy related questions
15:33Being asked
15:34With common man on the street
15:36You know
15:37None of these people go by
15:39Those actual documents
15:40Actual papers
15:41And read the clauses
15:42Because you know
15:43It's hard to even expect them
15:45It is up to the leaders
15:47Their leaders
15:48Their representatives
15:49Sitting in the parliament
15:50And discussing
15:51Look at them
15:52They were supposed to talk
15:53Clause by clause
15:54And possibly propose
15:55Certain amendments
15:56Etc
15:57But look at
15:58Typical Imran Pratap Ghari
15:59What does he say
16:00He is
16:01His opening line
16:02He went on
16:03Made a 15 minute speech
16:04Full of rhetoric
16:05Very little on content
16:06He said that
16:07Maulana Abul Kalam Azad ki mazar hai
16:09Waha par wo so rahe hain
16:11Wo mazar bhi ukhar di jayegi
16:13Wo bhi chala jaye
16:14You know
16:15All of these rhetoric
16:16Tends to sit
16:17Minus all the core contents
16:19Which you can debate
16:20And have a healthy discussion
16:21Around
16:22This fear psychosis
16:23Is clearly reflected
16:24In these numbers
16:25These numbers are such
16:27Because very very few people
16:29Understand
16:3099% of them
16:31Would never
16:32Enter into
16:33Any cross paths
16:34Of Waqf
16:35In their entire life
16:36But they will have
16:37An opinion on it
16:38It is primarily
16:39Because these are
16:40Polls
16:41And you
16:42You want the entire
16:43Community to
16:44Pick one poll
16:45And just associate
16:46Everything
16:47Your entire rationality
16:48You just bestow it
16:49On those polls
16:50You are making
16:51An important point
16:52Because if you see
16:53Sir
16:54What happened post
16:55The triple talaq bill
16:56For example
16:57Such a hala balu
16:58Created about
16:59How this would be
17:00Very problematic
17:01For the Muslim community
17:02In the end
17:03There hasn't been
17:04That much of a problem
17:05Frankly
17:06Except those who may have
17:07Tried to do a triple talaq
17:08Which in any case is wrong
17:09Or even take the
17:10Citizenship Amendment Act
17:11Where again
17:12So much of a fear
17:13Psychosis was created
17:14Rajat is a strong point
17:15A lot of this
17:16Fear
17:17Misnomers
17:18That people in the
17:19Community have
17:20Is because
17:21The leaders
17:22Of the community
17:23At least a section of
17:24The leaders of the community
17:25Have spread that fear
17:26And there are
17:27Two very important cases
17:28The CAA
17:29And
17:30And the second
17:31Triple talaq law
17:32Where not
17:33Things haven't
17:34Panned out the way
17:35Community elders
17:36Said they would
17:37See Rahul
17:44We are living in a
17:45Secular country
17:46Pursuing a secular
17:48Constitution
17:49I am guaranteed
17:50By my
17:51Constitution
17:52That I will
17:53Live
17:54Within my
17:55Religious environment
17:56I will maintain
17:57My religious
17:58Institution
17:59Education
18:00Institution
18:01And my properties
18:02And that's why
18:03The government
18:04Becomes the
18:05Custodian of
18:06My rights
18:07And we must
18:08Have to respect
18:09And honour
18:10That custody
18:11Of the government
18:12Of India
18:13And its
18:14Supremacy
18:15And its right
18:16Of the
18:17Community
18:18Of the
18:19Country
18:20But with
18:21Their own
18:22Opinions
18:23So
18:24Everybody
18:25Becomes
18:26Every sect
18:27Or the
18:28Religious
18:29Identity
18:30Or any
18:31Entity
18:32Which has
18:33A separate
18:34Identification
18:35They become
18:36The stakeholders
18:37So why
18:38Don't the
18:39If I
18:40Don't want
18:41As such
18:42A kind
18:43Of an
18:44Amendment
18:45So being a
18:46Stakeholder
18:47At least
18:48My opinion
18:49Must be
18:50Respected
18:51And we are
18:52Not frightening
18:53The community
18:54At all
18:55We have the
18:56Substances
18:57And I agree
18:58With my
18:59Previous
19:00Panelist
19:01That there
19:02Are people
19:03Inside the
19:04Parliament
19:05Certainly
19:06Which are
19:07Not talking
19:08On the
19:09Facts and
19:10The contents
19:11Of the
19:12Will
19:13Even the
19:14European
19:15Benches
19:16Have tried
19:17To condemn
19:18This bill
19:19But they
19:20Were just
19:21Like
19:22They were
19:23Speaking
19:24Like an
19:25Election
19:26Public
19:27Meeting
19:28Those were
19:29Not on
19:30The facts
19:31The Treasury
19:32Benches
19:33Whatever they
19:34Said
19:35They tried
19:36To create
19:37A public
19:38Perception
19:39Through
19:40Their
19:41Parliamentary
19:42Speeches
19:43And
19:44They
19:45Have been
19:46Authentic
19:47You make
19:48An
19:49Important
19:50Point
19:51The
19:52Absence
19:53Of
19:54Detailing
19:55And
19:56The
19:57Focus
19:58More
19:59On
20:00Political
20:01Rhetoric
20:02And
20:03Narrative
20:04Building
20:05I
20:06Want
20:07To
20:08Take
20:09Two
20:10More
20:11Questions
20:12Will
20:13The
20:14New
20:15Wahf
20:16Law
20:17Benefit
20:18The
20:19Muslim
20:20Community
20:21When
20:22This
20:23Question
20:24Was
20:25Asked
20:268%
20:27Of
20:28The
20:29Muslims
20:30And
20:3152%
20:32Of
20:33The
20:34Others
20:35Said
20:36Yes
20:37Only
20:388%
20:39Of
20:40The
20:41Others
20:42Said
20:43No
20:44But
20:4587%
20:46Again
20:47It
20:48Comes
20:49Back
20:50To
20:51This
20:52And
20:53If
20:54You
20:55Compare
20:56The
20:57Percentage
20:58Of
20:59People
21:00Having
21:01Reservations
21:02With
21:03This
21:04New
21:05Law
21:06You
21:07Don't
21:08Usually
21:09Get To
21:10Get
21:11To
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45:54Then there are these leaked WhatsApp chats in which Kalyan Banerjee and Kirti Azad indulge
46:03in an ugly war of words.
46:06The exchange is on a WhatsApp group called AITC MP 2024.
46:12Kalyan Banerjee again is going after a woman MP calling her versatile international lady.
46:18It is now clear that the female MP Kalyan Banerjee derided is Mahua Moitra.
46:26So how did the beef start?
46:29All this happened because Mahua Moitra wanted a Bengali sweet shop to be opened in Parliament.
46:35Mahua started getting signatures for the same but Kalyan Banerjee blocked it.
46:40Then Mahua Moitra's name wasn't included in a memo signed by TMC leaders in election
46:45commission.
46:46So a showdown played out in the poll panel office too.
46:51The ugly public showdown has split the TMC.
46:54No personal knowledge of the spat that took place.
47:02His uncivilized behavior has been in our view several times.
47:08Kalyan Banerjee though remains defiant.
47:39Then she was shouting at the top level.
47:42I was also shouting.
47:44No doubt about it.
48:08He has even offered to quit the party.
48:38I cannot take the pressure of that particular MP for saying that I have to make so many
48:45allotments.
48:46An embarrassing fight that has left the TMC red faced.
48:50Bureau report, India Today.
48:56The China versus America trade war is escalating.
48:59Beijing has vowed to fight to the end after Donald Trump threatened to nearly double the
49:04tariffs on China.
49:07Trump talks about introducing even more tariffs from Wednesday.
49:10The question is who will blink first?
49:16China's 34% tit for tat tariffs on American goods has infuriated Donald Trump.
49:23The US president has threatened to slap another 50% tariff on China if Beijing doesn't withdraw
49:30the levy by Tuesday.
49:32With China, as you know, against my statement, they put a 34% tariff on above what their
49:41ridiculous tariffs were already.
49:43And I said if that tariff isn't removed by tomorrow at 12 o'clock, we're putting a 50%
49:50tariff on above the tariffs that we put on.
49:53Let's break down the mathematics of Trump's tariffs on China.
49:59With a fresh 50% tariff threat looming that comes on top of the 34% reciprocal tariffs
50:06slapped on April 2nd and an early 20% for failing to curb fentanyl flow into the United
50:13States, the total tariff can go up to 104%.
50:18This is not taking into account the pre-existing tariffs of 7.5% to 25% from Trump's first
50:25term as president.
50:27China is unfazed, calling Trump's tariffs blackmail and disruption of the global economic
50:33order.
50:34The Xi Jinping administration says they will not hesitate to fight back.
50:42The Chinese government strongly condemns and firmly opposes such actions.
50:46The US approach is a typical act of unilateralism, protectionism and economic bullying, which
50:52causes harm to others while backfiring on itself.
50:56China is considering a multi-front economic pushback.
51:03First in line is a ban on Hollywood films.
51:07This will hit US studios as their films earned nearly $585 million in China in 2024 alone.
51:16China may also suspend its fentanyl cooperation with the United States, target US intellectual
51:23property benefits and finally impose curbs on trade in services.
51:29Pressure, threats and blackmail are not the right ways to deal with China.
51:33China will surely take necessary measures to resolutely safeguard its legitimate rights
51:37and interests.
51:38If US disregards the interests of both countries and the international community and insists
51:44on engaging in tariff war and trade war, China will fight to the end.
51:50The tariff war has reportedly led to a divide between Donald Trump and his advisor Elon Musk.
51:58Reports say the tech mogul has been privately recommending Trump to reverse his tariffs
52:04on Chinese imports.
52:05This comes just a day after Musk batted for zero tariffs between the United States and
52:11the European Union.
52:20Ideally, in my view, to a zero tariff situation, effectively creating a free trade zone between
52:25Europe and North America.
52:27China and Donald Trump are both unwilling to bend.
52:31Will this trade war shake up markets further?
52:35Bureau report India Today.