The United States Supreme Court has rejected Tahawwur Rana’s plea against extradition to India, unsealing a chapter of the chilling 26/11 Mumbai attacks that still haunts the nation.
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00:00Pakistan's key terror plotter to be extradited to India.
00:11Captain Tahawar Hussain Rana of Pakistan Army finally nailed Mumbai terrorist attack to
00:19face justice in India.
00:21So he's going to be going back to India to face justice.
00:30US Supreme Court turns down Captain Rana's request to remain in the US.
00:40Key plotter of 2611 Mumbai terror attacks, Pakistani Captain Tahawar Rana to be sent
00:46to India.
00:47Pakistan's extradition of Tahawar Rana, the joint statement which was adopted during the
00:52visit of the Prime Minister also reflects the sentiment.
00:56Will Tahawar Rana expose Pakistan's Mil Jihad network?
01:08Will Pakistan ISI and Lashkar-e-Taiba nexus finally be exposed to the world?
01:15Big win for India in the war on Pakistan's state-sponsored radical Islamist terror.
01:22And that's our top focus on the show.
01:30Pakistan Army's Captain Tahawar Hussain Rana was the key plotter of the 2611 Mumbai terror
01:34attacks.
01:35He had a GPS system with him.
01:38He recorded the exact coordinates, the latitude, longitude of the sites, those vital assets
01:44and vital points according to them.
01:46That he and that Pakistani-American terrorist David Coleman Headley, they carried out reconnaissance
01:52missions at multiple locations in India, both before and after 2611 Mumbai terror attacks.
01:58The big question still remains, who did they pass on this key information to in Pakistan?
02:05Who are their handlers in Pakistan Army and Pakistan's ISI, their notorious spy agents?
02:11Headley, of course, confessed being in touch with Hafiz Mohammed Zahid, the 2611 Mumbai
02:15terror attacks mastermind and the chief of UN-designated terrorist organization, Lashkar-e-Taiba.
02:21I covered David Coleman Headley's trial in the Chicago federal court in the United States
02:27of America.
02:28Many details emerged, but what is even more important, what is yet to emerge, are the
02:34future plans of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Pakistan's ISI to bleed India.
02:40Even after 2611, these white-collar terrorists had carried out reconnaissance missions in
02:45India.
02:46So, their plan remains to bleed India.
02:49There is clear and present danger for India even today.
02:54I am Gaurav Sawant, we get you all details as always.
02:57Let's get started with the headlines on Five Live.
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03:18Sources say Mamata Banerjee has ordered a probe to find the leak in the party's WhatsApp
03:24group.
03:29Moment of the grenade attack on Punjab, BJP leader's home captured on camera.
03:33Police probe, pro-Khalistan link to the attack, two accused including one Pakistani arrested.
03:44Supreme Court wraps Tamil Nadu Governor Aryan Ravi says cannot sit on pending bills, Supreme
03:49Court clears 10 pending bills, Stalin hails the ruling.
03:59Big India today impact, Congress expels the killer drunk driver Neta Usman Khan, kills
04:05three, axed by the Congress.
04:08Killer drunk driver was deputy district head of the Congress party.
04:19Markets open in the green a day after Trump tariff rattled the Dalal street, Sensex nifty
04:23surge, Jai Shankar dials US Secretary of State, India US hopeful of an early bilateral
04:30trade agreement.
04:40The United States Supreme Court has finally cleared the decks for the extradition of Pakistan
04:44Army's Captain Tahafur Hussain Rana to India.
04:48He was living in Canada after his conviction in a terror plot to target a Danish newspaper
04:53in Copenhagen.
04:54He was in a US prison in the United States of America.
04:58But now he will be extradited to India to stand trial and spill the beans on the involvement
05:04of the Pakistani deep state of Pakistani ISI and army and Lashkar-e-Taiba in the execution,
05:12planning and execution of 2611 Mumbai terror attacks.
05:15But his interrogation is more than just an academic exercise.
05:19He holds secrets about future plans of Pakistan's mil-jihad complex, that military terror complex
05:27to bleed India.
05:2912611 was not enough for these Pakistani terrorists, whether in uniform or in Lashkar-e-Taiba in
05:36Jaish-e-Mohammad.
05:37We get you more in this report.
05:4917 years after one of the worst Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terrorist
05:57strikes in India, the decks have finally been cleared for one of the key 2611 plotters,
06:04Captain Tahafur Hussain Rana to be extradited to India from the United States.
06:13Captain Tahafur Rana is a former doctor of the Pakistan army who lived in Canada and
06:18was recruited as a Lashkar-e-Taiba sleeper cell by Pakistani American terrorist David
06:24Coleman Headley long before the 2611 Mumbai terror attacks.
06:31Rana officially ran an immigration company in Canada and both Headley and Rana used the
06:37company as a front to set up offices in Mumbai and use their US and Canadian passports repeatedly
06:45to come to India and carry out reconnaissance missions.
06:52During Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to the US, President Donald Trump spoke
06:58of counter-terror cooperation and the extradition of Captain Rana to India to face trial in
07:05the Mumbai terror attacks case.
07:11Today I'm pleased to announce that my administration has approved the extradition of one of the
07:15plotters and one of the very evil people of the world and having to do with the horrific
07:232008 Mumbai terrorist attack to face justice in India so he's going to be going back to
07:32India to face justice.
07:36The US Supreme Court Chief Justice turned down Captain Tahavur Rana's last minute plea
07:42to remain in the US.
07:46Captain Rana had claimed being a Muslim of Pakistani origin he would be unsafe in India
07:52and may not live to stand trial but nothing could be further from the truth since even
07:58Ajmal Aamir Kassab the Pakistani Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist who was caught alive after the supreme
08:05sacrifice of Assistant Sub-Inspector Tukaram Ombale during the 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks
08:12was given a free and fair trial before being hanged.
08:35The National Investigation Agency and intelligence agencies proposed to interrogate Captain Rana
08:58to unravel the role of Pakistan Army, ISI and Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists including Hafiz
09:05Mohammed Saeed in the planning and execution of the 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks that resulted
09:12in the loss of 166 lives in India.
09:19The joint statement which was adopted during the visit of the Prime Minister also reflects
09:23the sentiment.
09:24We are working closely with the US government to meet the necessary formalities to allow
09:29for his extradition to India.
09:31So that is where it is.
09:32There are certain legalities in the United States for which I cannot answer but those
09:36also have to be taken care of.
09:39But our understanding is that we are working with the US government.
09:44Pakistan has been very apprehensive about Pakistan Army's Captain Rana's extradition
09:48to India.
09:50Pakistan fears skeletons in their cupboard will come tumbling out exposing Pakistan's
09:57military terror network globally.
10:00Bureau report India today.
10:07So Pakistan Army's Captain Tahawar Hussain Rana and Pakistani American Lashkar-e-Taiba
10:11terrorist David Coleman Headley, they were both sleeper cells of Lashkar-e-Taiba in Canada
10:16and the United States of America.
10:17So since they were US and Canadian passport holders, it helped them mask their original
10:22Pakistani identity and they were able to repeatedly come to India virtually unchecked.
10:28They used to carry out reconnaissance missions in India from Delhi to Mumbai, from Pune to
10:32Bangalore.
10:33And this is just one of the many reasons why the extradition of Captain Tahawar Hussain
10:36Rana becomes extremely crucial in the 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks case.
10:41So let's try and make sense of these developments.
10:43Joining me on this special broadcast are Professor Rajita Kulkarni Bagga, President of the Srisri
10:48University and a 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks survivor.
10:51Ma'am, privileged to have you on the show.
10:53Dr. Vikram Singh is former DGP of the Uttar Pradesh Police.
10:56To talk about the legal aspects, Arzu Kazmi is a senior journalist who joins us from Pakistan.
11:01Ambassador Ashok Sajjanhar to give us a diplomatic perspective, sir.
11:05Many thanks for joining us.
11:06Professor Kulkarni, you apparently spent over 13 hours at the Taj Hotel amidst that gun
11:14firing when the terrorists were inside the Taj during the siege.
11:1817 years later, madam, when this information comes in that one of the key plotters will
11:24be extradited to India, are you finally hopeful of justice that may have eluded you so far?
11:31Yes, absolutely, Gaurav.
11:33It's a very big moment for us, all of us who were in the different locations on that, you
11:41know, terrifying night of 26-11.
11:44And for the martyrs, their families, all other survivors, and over 166 people, including
11:52so many foreign nationals, women, children, 22 children lost their lives in those attacks.
11:59So I think this is one more rung we are climbing in our, you know, of the steps to justice.
12:08And it is a very big win for our country.
12:11We are a top five economy of the world today, aspiring to be a top three economy of the
12:16world.
12:17We are not a pushover nation.
12:18And I think an announcement like this made not just by anybody, but the President of
12:24the United States confirming the extradition of Rana to India, I think it's a big signal
12:31that our counter-terror or cooperation between India and the US is strengthening, maturing.
12:36And it's a big signal to the world that, you know, you cannot enter our country and
12:41conduct terrorist operations like this.
12:44We are not a pushover.
12:45So I think, yes, it is a big day for us.
12:48We are not a pushover anymore, perhaps, is the signal.
12:51And you're absolutely right, madam.
12:53Arzooq asked me, before I bring in, you know, the police perspective and a diplomatic perspective,
12:59Arzooq, what are reactions in Pakistan to Pakistan Army's former Captain Tahawar Rana's
13:05extradition to India?
13:07Is Pakistan apprehensive that your game will be up, Pakistan's game will be up?
13:11No, I think, Gaurav, as Pakistan said that he's not a Pakistani citizen, he's American
13:18citizen.
13:19So, you know, they say that they have left us behind and now they want that the way America
13:24does or the way American courts do, they should follow that.
13:29So when Pakistani citizens don't believe them, that means that we still have to believe something,
13:34that means that we are not ready to correct something.
13:37As you know, if we were a little bit ready, we would have accepted that yes, he is a Pakistani
13:42citizen, he has done wrong and was involved in the Mumbai attacks.
13:45But unfortunately, Pakistan is still on the same statement that he is not a Pakistani
13:50citizen, so we have nothing to do with it.
13:52So I don't think there are any changes in the policies here.
13:57But will he expose Pakistan?
14:00This is a big question.
14:01Dr. Vikram Singh, Tahir Hussain Rana, he didn't want to be extradited to India and his last
14:06petition to the Supreme Court in the United States of America, he took that plea, I'm
14:11of Pakistani origin, I'm a Muslim, I will not be safe in India.
14:15So he says I'm Pakistani, Pakistan now says no, no, not ours, not ours.
14:19It just goes on to show that Pakistan remains that evil state that refuses to recognize
14:24its soldiers, whether in Kargil or 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks, sir.
14:30Good evening, Gauravji and ladies and gentlemen, on very expected lines, in the sense that
14:34yes, denial seems to be the key and buzzword for Pakistan.
14:40He has been trained in the Hassan Abdaal Academy, and there is a close user group, the Abdaalis,
14:46and the Abdaalis work together and exchange notes of beheading.
14:50And you may recall that there was a terrorist, Kashmiri, and they were in touch with Kashmiri,
14:55Ilyas Kashmiri, yes, sir, Ilyas Kashmiri, they are known to be a very valuable asset
15:00of the ISI, and David Coleman Hadley and Ilyas Kashmiri, and they were in fact the prized
15:08assets of the ISI and the Pakistan army, David Coleman Hadley, and they worked in tandem.
15:13In fact, the audacity with which this man opened his shop, First World Immigration Center
15:18was also the cover for David Coleman Hadley to come and move around and shamelessly the
15:23matter in which some Bollywood bigwigs also helped David Coleman Hadley to join gyms and
15:28take them around on a sightseeing operation.
15:30I salute the valor of Professor Kulkarni, that with such valor and the nightmare that
15:35she had to face, she comes in front of us and very bravely gives the example of what
15:40Indians are.
15:41Now coming to the David partnership between Coleman Hadley, and this, it is not for the
15:45first time that this man has come, Tahboor Hussain Rana has come into light.
15:48He has been convicted for 14 years and let loose of our good conduct, I know what kind
15:53of good conduct he did.
15:54There was a charge of him being involved and complicit in the attack on a Netherland newspaper.
16:01Also many other terrorist charges were leveled against him.
16:05And the standard operating procedure is, Ms. Arzu Kazmi has always been so brave and gallant
16:10as always.
16:11And today also she comes out, I at times fear for her safety, and I'm sure Allah will look
16:16after her and see to it that she comes to no harm.
16:19But yes, the faithful interrogation with which he will be subjected by lie detector
16:25test and the polygraph test, it will not just be the skeletons that will tumble out, the
16:29carrion crows will be let loose and whatever the depredations were of David Coleman Hadley
16:34and also with the Mumbai phone industry, the undesirable elements as also of Tahboor Rana
16:39will.
16:40Okay.
16:41And IEA has a job at hand and let's hope they come out with the truth and the ultimate truth
16:44and actionable intelligence thereafter.
16:47The sooner the better, because Ambassador Sajjanhar, 17 years later, 17 years later,
16:53what does India hope to achieve with the interrogation of David Coleman Hadley's friend, colleague
17:00and partner in crime, brother in crime, Captain Tahboor Hussain Rana, or is this merely an
17:05academic exercise, Ambassador Sajjanhar?
17:07Thank you very much, Gaurav.
17:08No, I don't think it's an academic exercise.
17:11I think we've had a very rich discussion on your program.
17:16And you know, I think all the speakers, starting with Professor Kulkarni to Arzu to Dr. Singh,
17:24I think they have given indications as to what is it that India is looking for.
17:30And let me put it sort of, you know, very succinctly, two particular aspects.
17:34One, of course, there will be huge changes that have taken place in Islamabad, in Pakistan
17:41already, but still I think 26-11 continues to be one of those events like the 9-11.
17:49And we need to get to the bottom of that as to what exactly did happen.
17:54You know, I think another thing, whatever might be the preparations of the ISI then
17:58or now, I think India is far more prepared today, Gaurav, to deal with any such evil
18:07designs that any country or any organization might have.
18:12You know, I think we have, after the Uri attack in September 2016, the surgical strikes after
18:182019, Balakot and Pulwama, I think we have demonstrated that India is not going to take
18:27such attacks in future lying down.
18:29And I think the message has gone across.
18:31That is why we don't see anything coming.
18:33But the second point is also equally important because I am sure that Tahawur Hussain Rana
18:41and David Coleman Hadley would not have been able to carry out their evil and nefarious
18:47designs if they did not also have some sleeper cells in India.
18:54Very important point.
18:56Who were these people that they were connecting with?
18:58Because, you know, all the venues that were chosen, whether it is the Kapad House or it
19:04is the Taj Hotel or it is the railway station, etc., you know, they were taken for maximum
19:12visibility, maximum impact, and also as far as foreigners are concerned.
19:19And amongst foreigners also, it is Americans and it is Jews.
19:25Those who are, you know, because that is what Pakistan wanted to send out a message.
19:29Number one, India is not safe for doing business.
19:34So get out of here.
19:35And foreigners are not safe being in India.
19:39So they should not be coming here.
19:41So I think...
19:41Very important point you make there.
19:43Who are those snakes in our nest?
19:46And has that snake been living in our nest for 17 years?
19:49And we'll come to that point in just a moment.
19:50But Professor Kulkarni, you know, it's been my privilege.
19:54I interviewed you immediately after 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks and subsequently.
19:59And you've been brave throughout.
20:01Were you disappointed?
20:02Though Kasab was captured, he had a trial.
20:05He was hanged.
20:06Nine terrorists were killed.
20:07But the main plotters of terror, you see, because these people are like leaves and branches of
20:12the terror tree with roots in Pakistan, the main plotters of 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks,
20:18they got away with murder.
20:20They've gotten away scot-free even after 17 years.
20:23No action against them in Pakistan.
20:26Yes, of course, Gaurav.
20:27That is but natural.
20:28And, you know, anybody who has any kind of patriotism or national pride will feel these
20:35emotions.
20:36You cannot have the audacity to enter my nation on a normal working...
20:42You know, it was a weekday.
20:44It was Wednesday.
20:45And as Ambassador Sir said, these were locations which were prime locations for a city like
20:51Mumbai, where people were going around their business, either entertaining.
20:55It was November.
20:57It was wedding season.
20:58In the Taj Hotel that day, there were four weddings, board meetings.
21:02People are taking trains from the train station.
21:04So you are attacking a nation at its pulse, at its very core.
21:11And, you know, if there is no consequence, of course, it is not such a good feeling.
21:17But I think what is happening today in Hindi, we say, jab jago tabhi savera.
21:22So things are happening.
21:24I'm very, very...
21:25I have a deep faith in the leadership of our Prime Minister, Honorable Narendra Modi ji,
21:32what Jai Shankar ji is doing, the social capital, the diplomatic capital we enjoy in the world
21:39today.
21:39As someone previously said, you know, we cannot be taken lightly anymore.
21:45And I think the results we are seeing.
21:47So today is a good day.
21:50And I think we should take it from here ahead.
21:53Oh, absolutely.
21:54Because after 2611, there was no response, Ambassador Sajjanhar.
21:57And I'll come to that point in just a moment.
21:59We want to compare.
22:002611 happened.
22:01166 died.
22:03No response from India.
22:04No response.
22:05Weak-kneed response, saying Pakistan is a nuclear weapon state.
22:07Pulwama happened.
22:09Pakistan was bombed in Balakot, in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
22:12Very clear message sent across.
22:14No part of Pakistan is safe.
22:16You hit us, we'll bleed you and harder.
22:18But Dr. Vikram Singh, the 10 Pakistani terrorists, nine who were killed in combat, and the 10th
22:24who was hanged after a fair trial, they were just leaves and branches of the terror tree
22:28with roots in Pakistan.
22:30India still needs to take out the roots of the terror tree, sir.
22:39You're on mute.
22:40I'm sorry, sir, you're on mute.
22:43Well, as Israel has proclaimed that no enemy of Israel is safe anywhere in the world, likewise,
22:47India has to proclaim that no enemy of India is safe anywhere in the world.
22:52We cannot take nonsense and we cannot be pushed around.
22:55As Professor Kulkarni has very valiantly mentioned, that the time has come that India has to take
22:59a principled stand.
23:00And this is the principled stand that India has taken now.
23:03And you have very rightly mentioned that those branches and those branches of the terror
23:07tree, those branches and those twigs do not matter.
23:10They are not even relevant.
23:11Those people who are breathing oxygen into terrorism and creating a subculture of terrorism
23:17and fedayeen attacks, they need to be annihilated, as Israel has done to the Hamas and the Hezbollah.
23:23The time has come to take on the LET and other tanzeem so that they go into the backdrop
23:29of history and do not resurface again.
23:31But to Ambassador Ashok Sajjanhar, sir, I would say that, yes, there are not sleeper
23:36cells, but they are willing exercises who aided and abetted the Pakistan evil design.
23:41Film stars, film producers, it's too premature to name anyone at this point of time.
23:46But a word to the wise is enough.
23:48I would say they need to be taken to task and the property confiscated, as in the case
23:53of Makoka and in the UAPA.
23:57So, you know, is that time barred?
23:59Can Makoka still be imposed on those sleeper cells or those who connived with these Pakistani
24:05terrorists to bleed their own motherland?
24:07If they consider this place their motherland, these are many, many questions and very crucial
24:11questions we will continue to seek answers to.
24:13And I'm coming to that in just a moment.
24:15But Arzoo Kazmi, does Pakistan realize, especially after Pulwama and Balakot, either they punish
24:23the guilty, because India has repeatedly submitted dossiers, Arzoo.
24:35My question is, either Pakistan takes action or there are unknown gunmen in Pakistan.
25:35The government can't do anything.
25:56I want to come to you.
25:57I want to understand, interrogation of this Tahwar Hussain Rana becomes very crucial because
26:03it's his future plans, future plans of Pakistan's ISI and deep state.
26:08It's not as if Pakistan does not plan to bleed India anymore.
26:17As external affairs minister, Dr. S.J. Shankar also said that bigotry is in the DNA of Pakistan.
26:24What do we do?
26:25Because to know their future plans, right now, Pakistan is weak.
26:28Right now, Pakistan is scared.
26:29In case they do a Pulwama, Narendra Modi government will do a Balakot.
26:33But tomorrow, they could strike.
26:35There may be another government.
26:37They could again think that, okay, now it's another moment for 26-11.
26:41They could try and strike our country once again.
26:43So, interrogating Tahwar Hussain Rana is very important to know what terror's future plans are.
26:49No, absolutely.
26:50I think whatever Tahwar Rana can share with us, you know, or we can extract out of him,
26:56because I don't think there's going to be anything willingly that is going to come our way.
27:00But, you know, whatever we are going to extract, and whatever might be the utility,
27:04because I think we also need to recognize, Gaurav, that it is already 17 years,
27:09and he has not been in active connect as far as all the, you know, those in Pakistan who are
27:18engaged in plotting all these attacks against India.
27:22So, you know, his information might not be current.
27:25But in that context, I think whatever we are able to get out of Tahwar Rana and whatever,
27:32you know, how Pakistan had done it that way, I think this will also be a message to Pakistan
27:39that India is going to be very, very stern against its adversaries and against those who are
27:47inclined in a hostile manner as far as India is concerned.
27:50So, I think it is also in terms of sending out a message to Pakistan, to the world,
27:57that no one will be able to get away by, you know, by engaging in activities of this nature.
28:03Those times are past. You know, you said, Gaurav, that there might be a change in government.
28:09I think India has started thinking it's not only, you know, its Indian leadership has brought this
28:15change, but now it is the Indian people who are not going to tolerate that, you know, 26-11
28:23happens and then we are just sort of, you know, sitting on our hands and doing nothing.
28:29I think it is the Indian people who are going to make sure also the vigilance from our security
28:35forces is there and the determination of our leadership and of our people is there that
28:42actions of this nature will not go unresponded and I'm quite confident that this, you know,
28:51energy that has been given, that is going to stay with us for future.
28:58Professor Kulkarni, as a victim of Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror
29:03after 26-11, were you disappointed that India did not respond to that Pakistani terror?
29:10You know, we had interviewed Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, then Chief of Air Staff and he
29:16said they had presented a plan to the then government, Dr. Manmohan Singh's government,
29:21that they can go bomb Pakistan even then, but they did not get the green light. Do you notice
29:27a difference and did it ever strike you that when Pulwama happened, Narendra Modi government
29:33went and hit Balakot so that Pakistan gets a message, no part of Pakistan is safe if they
29:39hit India, but post 26-11 there was no response? Yes, Gaurav, you are absolutely right. I mean,
29:46today when we talk about this incident 17 years later, also it stirs such deep emotions and such
29:54deep trauma. It is a national trauma that we are living through as a country. Imagine how it was
30:01at that time. This was not a normal terror attack. It was a live terror situation for 72 hours. It
30:10was over three and a half days that this situation, you know, was a live situation. So many
30:18people died. It was a white city. Mumbai was a white city that weekend. I mean, we got tired of
30:25going from cremation to cremation of friends and business associates. It was a monumental
30:33trauma for our country at that time and to have the audacity to enter a city like Mumbai
30:41through its waters, through the fisherman's colony. I stayed, Gaurav, in the neighborhood that time.
30:46That fisherman's colony is something I passed every day to my work and you take a left turn
30:52there, you look left out of your car window and that's where they came out of very casually and
30:58entered our country. I mean, this is the information we have and to have your countrymen
31:05be hit like this. Imagine what a moment it was and to have not responded. I mean,
31:13if you can't call it letting your country down, I don't know what else you can call it,
31:17but I think now we are looking like a country who cares for its people. We have the
31:24strength and the grit and the guts to give it back. I mean, we are a peace-loving country. We
31:32are the country of Ahimsa. That peace comes from strength. Ma'am, you're absolutely right. I don't
31:36have to imagine it. I was there. I was covering 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks right outside
31:41Taj for the next three days. We were there covering that worst terror attack that we saw
31:47and you're absolutely right, Dr. Vikram Singh, Pakistan has used the C route even before. 1993
31:55Mumbai blast, 257 died. 2006 train serial blast, 200 people died. They've repeatedly bled India
32:02and because India did not take any action post 26-11, so even after that, even after 26-11,
32:08we had Zaveri Bazaar, German Pune Bakery was targeted, a series of other terror attacks that
32:14happened because Pakistan said,
32:23It's only a balakot that you mess around with India and you will bleed harder than ever before,
32:31sir. So is that the only language that Pakistan understands? And that's my question I'm coming to.
32:36The sleeper cells in India, the active participants in India, those who may want to
32:42side with Pakistan terror like they did in 1993, like they did in 2006, have such elements been
32:48weeded out or do we still have those Aasteen ka Saap within us even today? Gaurav ji, old habits
32:56die hard. The sleeper cells are very much there. In a scale of one student, we may have neutralized
33:01maybe around 40 to 50 percent, but the 50 percent are very much alive and kicking,
33:06as you would see in very many agitations and the disturbances that take place all across the
33:11country. Now, unless we have the deterrence and a no-nonsense approach that anybody who strikes
33:17India, there will be consequences and the consequences with devastating fatalities
33:22and with multiple compound interest to the aggressor. If that message is not there,
33:27perhaps we'd be taken as a soft state, as a sitting duck, which unfortunately the reputation
33:32that India earned till 26-11 happened. And even after that, try these monkey tricks with some
33:39state like Israel and China, and they would know the consequences. Now, Pakistan, in any case,
33:44is a failed state. Bankruptcy is looming large. And perhaps the only way that they can survive
33:49is an anti-India program that is aimed at the majority community. Therefore, under these
33:55circumstances, Gauravji, perhaps that is the lifeline of Pakistan. And therefore, let us
34:00understand that this is the only lifeline that they have. And if again they try anything of
34:05their monkey tricks, there should be consequences and absolute deterrence and with devastating
34:10consequences for the aggressors. Arzoo, before I wind up this part of the debate,
34:16I just want to understand from you, can you explain why till the Pulwama terror attack in India,
34:25Pakistan was very active in spreading terror in India? And post-Balakot, we still noticed
34:31terror happening in Jammu and Kashmir, but not beyond. What happened? What changed, Arzoo,
34:36in your appreciation? I think Pakistan, as you know, was in the gray list of the FATF,
34:44and there are other problems as well. That is why they are trying a little bit,
34:49they are saying again and again that they will stop terrorism or will try to stop it. Unfortunately,
34:54now the terrorism that we had made for others, when it starts exploding on our heads,
34:59what you are seeing, whether it is TTP or BLA, and other attacks, definitely now they are
35:03understanding this, but now it is too late. Now from that you know that many new groups have
35:08formed and they are not being controlled. And the way attacks are going on every other day in
35:14Pakistan, so I don't think that these people will be able to control it so easily or very soon
35:20some kind of thing will come in it. The gesture that is being made here again and again will definitely
35:25be talked about towards India, and the reason for that is that the attention will be tried to divert
35:30the audience or the public, so that those people who are talking about Afghanistan,
35:35who are talking about Balochistan, they should be told that India is putting wrong allegations on us
35:42and you are worried about Balochistan. So here, as I said earlier, policies are very
35:47wrong and they are not ready to change them. Ambassador Sajanhar, you have dealt with Pakistan
35:52and you have dealt with radical Islamist terror, and now Europe is bearing the brunt of it,
35:58so are other parts of the world. The only language Pakistan understands is punishment
36:05and punitive strikes. Sadly, Pakistan and rise of radical Islamists in Bangladesh,
36:10the only language they understand is bleed them harder?
36:13No, absolutely. I think vigilance, Gaurav, will have to be the order of the day. We cannot let
36:21our guard down. I think that is the sine qua non. That is absolutely essential that,
36:27notwithstanding the fact, you know, as it was mentioned that 50% even within home,
36:32you know, we might have been able to debilitate the sleeper cells, but still whatever remains,
36:39you know, make sure that they don't grow because we see that the world over, whether it's in the
36:46Middle East, there are those influences, they have a tendency to sort of, you know,
36:52travel across borders, seep across borders. India will have to be constantly on the vigil.
37:00And as far as Europe is concerned, what you said is very right. And even our security counter
37:06terror collaboration with Europe and with the other countries, because I think if there is one
37:13country which has been able to deal with this issue effectively, I think it is India in terms
37:18of the experience that we have been able to garner. And we'd be, you know, happy to share
37:24that experience with other countries to ensure that there is no problems as far as other areas
37:33are concerned, other countries are concerned, particularly Europe and all where we have
37:38good economic partnership, economic relationship, and we would want that there is peace,
37:44tranquility and security in those countries. So India-America cooperation on display here
37:50with Tahawar Hussain Rana's extradition to India. Let's see what information comes out and whether
37:57India is able to completely degrade Pakistan's military jihad complex's ability to target India
38:05by bleeding the terror state harder. To all my guests, many, many thanks for joining me
38:10on this very interesting debate. Reports just coming in and former army officer has been
38:16assaulted over an argument over Waqf law. Argument over Waqf law turns physical. A taxi driver has
38:26assaulted a former army officer. And this happened in Kanpur or on the road between Kanpur
38:33and Lucknow. Information we are getting is that Kanpur district soldiers welfare board officer,
38:38a retired army colonel, he was from information coming in, he was praising the Narendra Modi
38:44government. He was praising the Waqf law while on a telephone call, talking to somebody on the phone.
38:52And there was an argument with an Ola driver with a taxi driver while traveling to Lucknow.
38:58The driver, according to the complaint filed with the police, got angry and called some of his aides
39:06and assaulted the passenger. The information we are getting is documents and cash have been looted.
39:12The passenger has been admitted. The retired army officer has been admitted to hospital.
39:17That's the information that's coming in. And those are some images that we are getting you
39:20on your television screen of the assault that took place. I want to quickly cut across to
39:25India Today's Simar Chawla, who joins us live from Kanpur FOMO on the story. Simar,
39:31what details do we have? What happened? Well, Gaurav, that's a shocking incident that has
39:37come into the notice. What we have learned is that he's a retired army officer, a retired
39:41colonel who lives in Lucknow, but was traveling to Kanpur for a friend's wedding. Now, when he
39:46was going back to Lucknow from Kanpur, in the middle of the road near Achalgarh area of Udnao,
39:51he was talking to someone regarding the Vak bill and he in fact was praising the Vak bill regarding
39:57the recent bill which has been passed. It was then, as per the allegation, the cab driver who
40:01was from the different community did not like the discussions and did not like him praising
40:06the Vak bill. It was then they both, you know, entered into the argument and which lately turned
40:12into a physical fight. What the allegations have been put from the side of the retired colonel is
40:17that he has called some of his colleagues, he has called some of his friends on the road and then
40:22three to four people in fact physically assaulted him, beaten him, after which he was severely
40:28injured. Now, the affair has been registered in the Udnao district, in the Achalgarh area,
40:32which clearly says that the scuffle started after the Vak bill was being praised by the
40:37retired army officer. And what we have learned by our sources is that two arrests have been
40:42made in this very particular matter, the driver and his friend. But as per police, they have given
40:46their statement that the scuffle was not about the Vak bill. However, this has been maintained
40:51from the side of the army officer who is now admitted in the command centre, command hospital
40:56in Lucknow. The police says that once he's quick, once he's ready to talk, we'll go to him, we'll
41:01record a statement and the further investigation to follow. But as of now, the developments,
41:05the information that has been shared with us and also the images and videos that have turned up
41:10regarding the army officer being injured, that in fact itself is a very shocking development, Gaurav.
41:18Simar, keep tracking that story. I will come back to you for more. For the moment,
41:22Simar Chawla in Kanpur, many thanks.
41:26An explosion rocked the house of a former Punjab minister and BJP leader, Manoranjan
41:31Kalia. This happened in Jalandhar. Police have arrested two accused in this case.
41:35Punjab's top cops said that a Pakistan-based suspected terrorist is among the key conspirators.
41:41The police suspect an ISI and a Babbar Khalsa International. It's a terrorist organisation.
41:47It's a Khalistani terrorist organisation. They suspect a BKI linked to this terror attack. The
41:53aim was to create communal disharmony and sectarian disharmony in Punjab.
41:59We get you more in this report.
42:30The suspect seen driving an e-rickshaw is captured on camera conducting a reconnaissance mission
42:37outside the house. The suspect then makes a U-turn before hurling the grenade at the BJP leader's
42:44house. We are in Jalandhar. You can see this is the house which came under grenade attack and a
42:54grenade was lobbed from this place. And you can say this is the impact where the grenade was
43:00lobbed. It bursted here, exploded over here. And after this, this is the kind of impact you saw,
43:05that the entire, this door panel came down and this is the partition that came down.
43:10And the devastation was such that fortunately there was no human loss,
43:15no casualty, no injuries to anyone because it was around 1 a.m.
43:19Kalia said he woke up to the sound of the blast, initially mistaking it
43:24for an explosion in a transformer.
43:26The police have arrested two people, Zeeshan Akhtar and Shehzad Bhatti as the masterminds responsible
43:55for the grenade attack. The police have accused Shehzad Bhatti of being a Pakistan-based terrorist.
44:26Politics has escalated with the opposition targeting the Bhagwatman government
44:32over collapsing law and order in Punjab.
44:55Sardar Sukhbir Singh Badal attacked in the premises of Golden Temple. What did the Punjab
45:07police do? Punjab police helped the assailant and helped him getting the bail. Sardar Bikram
45:14Singh Majithia's security is cut down just to please the Aam Aadmi Party high-ups.
45:18The police have confiscated the e-rickshaw. This is the first grenade attack on a politician's
45:27residence in Punjab, but it comes after a series of such attacks on police stations
45:35with Asim Bassi, Bureau Report, India Today.
45:43And shifting focus to the big international story, there's now an all-out tariff war between
45:47the United States of America and China. US President Donald Trump has announced an additional
45:5450% tariff on China less than 48 hours after Beijing announced a tit-for-tat 34% tariff on
46:01US exports to China. So reports say China is now considering a multi-front economic pushback,
46:09including according to some reports in social media in China, that they may ban all Hollywood
46:15films in China. We get you more in this report. China's 34% tit-for-tat tariffs on American goods
46:26has infuriated Donald Trump. The US President has threatened to slap another 50% tariff on China
46:34if Beijing doesn't withdraw the levy by Tuesday. With China, as you know, against my statement they
46:44put a 34% tariff on above what their ridiculous tariffs were already.
46:50And I said if that tariff isn't removed by tomorrow at 12 o'clock, we're putting a 50%
46:56tariff on above the tariffs that we put on. Let's break down the mathematics of Trump's
47:02tariffs on China. With a fresh 50% tariff threat looming that comes on top of the 34%
47:10reciprocal tariffs slapped on April 2nd. And an early 20% for failing to curb fentanyl flow
47:18into the United States. The total tariff can go up to 104%. This is not taking into account
47:25the pre-existing tariffs of 7.5% to 25% from Trump's first term as president.
47:33China is unfazed, calling Trump's tariffs blackmail and disruption of the global economic
47:40order. The Xi Jinping administration says they will not hesitate to fight back.
47:48The Chinese government strongly condemns and firmly opposes such actions. The US approach
47:54is a typical act of unilateralism, protectionism and economic bullying,
47:58which causes harm to others while backfiring on itself.
48:02China is considering a multi-front economic pushback. First in line is a ban on Hollywood
48:12films. This will hit US studios as their films earned nearly $585 million in China in 2024 alone.
48:22China may also suspend its fentanyl cooperation with the United States,
48:27target US intellectual property benefits and finally impose curbs on trade in services.
48:35Pressure, threats and blackmail are not the right ways to deal with China.
48:39China will surely take necessary measures to resolutely safeguard its legitimate rights and
48:44interests. If US disregards the interests of both countries and the international community
48:49and insists on engaging in tariff war and trade war, China will fight to the end.
48:57The tariff war has reportedly led to a divide between Donald Trump and his advisor Elon Musk.
49:04Reports say the tech mogul has been privately recommending Trump to reverse his tariffs on
49:10Chinese imports. This comes just a day after Musk batted for zero tariffs between the United
49:16States and the European Union. I hope it is agreed that both Europe and the United States
49:24should move ideally in my view to a zero tariff situation, effectively creating a free trade zone
49:30between Europe and North America. China and Donald Trump are both unwilling to bend.
49:37Will this trade war shake up markets further? Bureau report India Today.
49:47And I quickly want to cut across to Business Today TV's Associate Editor Chetan Bhutani
49:52who joins us for more on this. So, Chetan, is this now a game of brinkmanship? 34%, 34%,
49:59now America is warning there will be another 50% tariffs on China. This escalation would only spell
50:06trouble not just for China and the US, but will it have a cascading effect on the rest of the globe?
50:13Well, absolutely, Gaurav. You know, there are three to four key major issues that needs to
50:16be addressed alongside the tariff war with China and of course with the United States. We see
50:22particularly in the sector like electronics, manufacturing, agriculture, because these
50:25companies will definitely will have to reroute their sourcing and production. In fact, we see
50:30increased cost for businesses and consumers. In fact, higher tariffs are driving up the cost of
50:35goods traded between the US and China, with ripple effects increasing slightly globally for raw
50:40material components and finished products like smartphones, vehicles, and of course, auto
50:44components and apparels as well. Well, you know, global financial markets as we all know and have
50:48been aggressively reporting on it are in a state of great volatility. You know, we see oil prices
50:54hovering around 64 to 62 odd dollars per barrel, because recession fears are looming around. Plus,
51:00lastly, Gaurav, I'd like to conclude by saying the shift in trade alliances, you know, we see
51:05China's export controls on rare earth elements and focus on diversified trade partners definitely
51:09emerges as a good story and a bright spot for India. But yes, we'll have to wait and watch as
51:14to the other markets are responding to the tariff, because Trump, as we know, is actually
51:20looking forward to a retaliatory tariff, but we'll have to wait and watch as to what these three to
51:25four key elements work out. Keep tracking that story. I will come back to you for more for the
51:30moment, Chetan. Many thanks. Now, after Black Monday on Dalal Street, Tuesday marked a new
51:36beginning for markets in India. So Dalal Street showed signs of recovery on Tuesday after the
51:41stormy start to the week. Despite that sharp fall on Monday, Nifty managed to stay above the 22,000
51:48level, which is considered an important level. Sensex jumped 902 points, reached 74,000. Now,
51:55that marks a rise of about 1.5% for both the indices. Government sources have told India
52:01today that the Prime Minister's office is monitoring the impact on Indian market share
52:05in the Indian share market and is working towards attempting to cushion the impact on
52:11the Indian economy. And sources are saying PSUs have been asked to distribute profits to investors.
52:16The External Affairs Minister, Dr. S. Jai Shankar, had a conversation with the U.S.
52:20Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. The two nations have agreed that it's extremely important for both
52:26India and the United States of America to speedily conclude a bilateral trade agreement soon,
52:32hopefully by fall. Commerce Minister Piyush Goyal said the government is in touch with
52:37various sectors. He added that India sees tariffs as an opportunity to gain from. Now,
52:44Piyush Goyal also said that India does not find China's pricing to be fair.
53:02So, we'll track developments on the story, but that is all I have for you on Five Live this
53:29evening. Many thanks for watching.