In this exclusive interview, DMK's Salem Dharanidharan shares his strong stance on the National Education Policy (NEP) and the imposition of Hindi in Tamil Nadu with Oneindia Correspondent Kangkan Mahanta. He discusses the ongoing fight for federalism and how the DMK stands firm against any move to impose Hindi on the Tamil-speaking population. This is a direct counter to previous statements made by BJP's Shazia Ilmi on the matter. Watch the full interview to understand the DMK's perspective on language, federalism, and the NEP.
#DMK #SalemDharanidharan #HindiImposition #NEP #TamilNadu #Federalism #LanguageRights #BJP #ShaziaIlmi #IndianPolitics #EducationPolicy #TamilLanguage #NationalEducationPolicy
#DMK #SalemDharanidharan #HindiImposition #NEP #TamilNadu #Federalism #LanguageRights #BJP #ShaziaIlmi #IndianPolitics #EducationPolicy #TamilLanguage #NationalEducationPolicy
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NewsTranscript
00:00A very warm welcome to all the viewers of One India.
00:03Today we have with us a very knowledgeable expert in the form of the national spokesperson
00:07of the DMK.
00:08Welcome to the show, Mr. Salem Dharani Dharan, thank you so much for joining us.
00:17So jumping straight into the topic of contention, the much hotly debated national education
00:22policy.
00:24So it seems like the DMK under Mr. Salim, of course, has not been too, I mean, kindly
00:31accepting the national education policy for its own reason, of course, I think.
00:35So the feeling is that Hindi is the sole bone of contention in this free language policy,
00:42a formula that the central government has put in.
00:46The counter view, of course, from the central government, the BJP, is that this is actually
00:50going to help Tamil Nadu.
00:52One of the factors is that it is only going to enhance the cognitive ability of the children
00:57apart from everything else.
00:58Do we, of course, now we are in a stalemate wherein both the central government and the
01:02DMK are not coming to any sort of dialogue.
01:06Do we see in the course of time, in some maybe months to come wherein we'll have a maybe
01:10a productive dialogue wherein both the parties come and try to solve this stalemate, break
01:14this stalemate?
01:15No, I think, see, I think we have simplified the issue, right, on three languages, but
01:22the issue is much broader.
01:23There's only one aspect of it.
01:24The first aspect is, there is an attempt to undermine the federalist, federalistic structure
01:31of this country, right?
01:33So the whole Pandora box went, how was it opened?
01:35The whole Pandora box was opened when Tamil Nadu and several other opposition states,
01:41Bengal and West Bengal, were not released 2150, Tamil Nadu, in case of Tamil Nadu, 2150
01:47crores of funds that were due under Samarasamagra Siksha Abhiyan, SSA.
01:52These funds have not been released for last 12 months to Tamil Nadu.
01:55This is a 2001 scheme and Tamil Nadu and states like Kerala are ranking in the top one or
02:00two when it comes to outcomes that are decided under SSA.
02:03But then states like Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh, which rank very pretty badly when it comes
02:08to outcome, in SSA they have released the entire fund.
02:11So this is travesty to federalism.
02:13So my chief minister protested.
02:15When he protested, they said, no, no, no, you have to sign agreement for PM free schools.
02:21Okay, fine, we didn't have any problem.
02:23But then the major problem is that, then they said, if you have to sign PM free schools,
02:27then you have to sign NEP.
02:28But NEP is just a policy document.
02:31Now let's not go into the contents of the NEP.
02:33I will come back to that later.
02:34But now let's assume NEP is good.
02:36But even then, even then to deny 2150 crores funds, which the states rightfully deserve
02:42by tying up to NEP, right, is completely making mockery of the democracy because both are
02:48not interlinked or intertwined.
02:50NEP is a policy document which came around 2020.
02:52This has been existing since 2001, right?
02:54So my question is, what happens in the future, the union government will say, we won't release
02:59you any fund under centrally sponsored schemes until and unless you make Hindi as a working
03:03language of Tamil Nadu government offices.
03:05Why can't it be the end point?
03:06Now I'm saying this is the start point and that will be the end point.
03:09So this is a problem.
03:11This is a major problem because both are not related.
03:14You release the fund, after that maybe they could have insisted saying, we urge you.
03:18Then we could have come to the next part of the debate, is NEP good or bad, right?
03:24So but this is a fundamental problem that is making mockery of the democracy, this clear
03:28case of blackmail.
03:29So this cannot happen because both are not related at all.
03:34And the money that you're sending is also our money, we are sending the tax.
03:37So Tamil Nadu is not a net gainer, right?
03:40So we are not a net, like some states in the northern belt which are net gainers from the
03:44union government, we are not net gainers, right?
03:47So we send one rupee, we get only 28 paise back.
03:50So which means the money that we are getting is also what we duly deserve.
03:54It's not that we are getting a grant, which is over on top of what we contribute to the
04:01union, no, right?
04:02This is a part of the money that we rightfully deserve that we are supposed to get.
04:06So this is blackmail and this cannot happen.
04:09So now going into NEP, so the NEP itself, right, I think is a bad idea overall, or anything,
04:16any centrally sponsored scheme is a bad idea for a country like India, because states like
04:20Uttar Pradesh and Bihar are only as well developed in socio-economic metrics compared to sub-Saharan
04:28Africa in many metrics.
04:30And Tamil Nadu, Kerala do as well as many of the states in the America when it comes
04:35to many socio-economic metrics, or they do as well as upper middle income countries,
04:40nearly all metrics.
04:41By this I'm not ridiculing the northern belt or Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, I'm only stating
04:47a fact that when such profound disparity exists, what we have to do is to undo the disparity.
04:52But to undo the disparity, you can't have one solution for all the states, because you're
04:57taking a midpoint.
04:58Let's assume the government has taken a midpoint, okay, Tamil Nadu so well developed, UP and
05:02Bihar are here.
05:03So let's find a midpoint.
05:04Then some, some schemes may be too evolved for a state like Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, they
05:10may not have the institutional capacity.
05:12And some, some schemes would be, may not be necessary for a developed state like Tamil
05:18Nadu.
05:19For example, one of the schemes, we could never find the beneficiary.
05:22Because all the beneficiaries were above the threshold eligibility criteria written by
05:25the Indian government.
05:26That is why I'm saying, you, there need to be a tailor-made solution for each state,
05:30or at least state could be clubbed into five categories.
05:33And then each state like let's say Kerala, Tamil Nadu, West Maharashtra could be, could
05:39be clubbed into one.
05:41And then let's say, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh could be clubbed into one, and medium, like states
05:46in the medium level could be clubbed into one, and then there could be three sets of
05:49solutions.
05:50Or ideal would be, each state has their own solution for their problem and money alone
05:54comes from the Indian government, and how the money is going to be delivered could be
05:57tied to outcomes.
05:58If you do the outcomes, then we are going to release the money, if you don't, you know,
06:01outcomes, money will not be delivered.
06:03You, the states can be told to, you, you devise a scheme.
06:06Okay, Uttar Pradesh, for example, your gross enrollment ratio is 17%.
06:10Then they could give a scheme, can tell the Uttar Pradesh government, you devise whatever
06:14you want.
06:15You do midday meal scheme, you do breakfast scheme, we are giving a certain amount of
06:18money.
06:19We want the enrollment rate to be increased by 5% each year, or 3% or 4% each year.
06:25So next year funding is contingent on the fact that you, that outcome is achieved.
06:30So if you, if you like, let's say double, then the LGBT, then maybe they can get a bonus
06:34top up.
06:35And if you don't do it, then money would not be released or money would be reduced by certain
06:40percentage.
06:41We all respond to incentives, politicians, people in the government, bureaucracy, you,
06:46me, right?
06:48We all respond to incentives, how you would, you would work more if your work is appreciated
06:52and promotion is tied to that.
06:54Same thing, if my party will recognize me for my hard work, and they'll reward me at
06:57certain number of years, then I'll keep working.
07:00So tie it up with incentives.
07:02But then, yes, it's more of performance related.
07:07That would be an ideal metric.
07:08But now you're saying one solution to all.
07:10So this is the second problem.
07:13And, and third problem comes, gross enrollment ratio by 2030.
07:17And then there are certain policies for it.
07:20But in Tamil Nadu, we achieved 50% gross enrollment ratio by 2015.
07:23So many of the outcomes are decided by 2030 are achieved in Tamil Nadu in 2015, 2010,
07:2929 itself, which means we are 20 years ahead.
07:32So then you're going to enforce such a system, our growth rate is going to get impeded, which
07:38means the growth of the country will get impeded.
07:40And third problem, not even going to language, fourth problem, I'll tell you, is that they're
07:44saying there will be a public exam after class third, after class five, after class eight.
07:49And then 10th, I think two semesters and 12th two semesters.
07:52There's a profound problem with this Tamil Nadu has the highest gross enrollment ratio,
07:57not just in college level, but also higher secondary, 95% girls are enrolled in higher
08:03secondary schools, which is twice higher than maybe Gujarat, 50% higher than Indian average.
08:10But then here, the problem is, when you have exams at third, fifth, eighth, as per World
08:15Bank research, OECD research, the major contributor to school dropouts are failure in exam, which
08:24is why in Tamil Nadu, you have said universal pass until class eight, the first board exam
08:28is in class 10.
08:28So let's say after class third, some 10% of students would fail, in that 5% won't continue
08:34the school, then maybe 15% would fail after class five, 7.5% won't continue.
08:38After class eight, maybe 30% would drop out, 15% won't continue.
08:43So these problems exist, which means the dropout rates will increase.
08:46But here we have a model in which we have shown highest enrollment ratio, not just in
08:51higher secondary school level, but also at the college level, graduate level.
08:56So why do you want to change that?
08:58When we have proved and research across the world says that have one exam after class 10.
09:03So, and does it mean that the quality has decreased in Tamil Nadu?
09:06No, Tamil Nadu colleges, engineering colleges rank, 33 colleges ranked in the top 100, law
09:11colleges at least 25%, medical college 40%, which means the ranking is also tied to the
09:16quality of students.
09:17These are the same students from the same schools who go to these colleges.
09:20You can't have 60% students really bad, the counter argument I am talking about,
09:24assuming they are bad, then have such a good ranking for colleges and many companies have
09:29also said that the human resource capital in the state is very good.
09:32So it doesn't mean that I am demeaning the other state.
09:35What I am saying is, why don't you copy our model?
09:37Normally, even as a student, you don't emulate a topper in your class, not the backbencher
09:42who scored the last mark.
09:44So if Tamil Nadu is a high achieving state, then emulate us, we don't have any problem.
09:49Then comes the language issue.
09:50Now, sticking only to Hindi versus Tamil, because I guess the problem here is with Hindi
09:57as one of the languages, because if you really have to go back, you know, back, back down
10:01the years, I think it's been anti-Hindi sentiment in Tamil Nadu has been a deep rooted issue.
10:08I mean, of course, it would have maybe its own reason.
10:10I mean, we have to go back to the years of Mr. Perrier who, we have to go back down the
10:16years with Mr. Perrier, who went on to as far as quitting the Indian National Congress
10:20and then joining the Justice Party.
10:22Then, of course, starting from the 1950s on, we had Mr. Anna Durai and Mr. Karunanidhi
10:28from the DMK, who, of course, went all out against, you know, imposition of Hindi in
10:33Tamil Nadu.
10:34And now, of course, we still have the DMK with Mr. Stalin still, you know, having Hindi
10:40as the issue here.
10:42So do you think it's more to do with maybe a history, much more to do with just NEP as
10:50the real reason and more to do with history and culture behind this?
10:54Because this is not a, of course, now, the common man is more, knows it more because
11:00it has been in prominence because of the national education policy in 2020.
11:04But if you really have to go back down the years, I think it's much beyond just a normal
11:10issue that we are seeing as of now.
11:12See, firstly, as politically, all that, okay, as politicians, as a party in power, what,
11:18what, who are we, right?
11:20As an MLA or an MP, I'm mere representatives of my people, right?
11:25So in a democracy, people have their say.
11:27And people elect a representative who will go and represent them better.
11:33Right?
11:33So when people of Tamil Nadu itself do not want a three-language formula, then as a
11:39political party, any, we are supposed to voice that issue and listen to the people
11:44and fight for it.
11:45That's first.
11:46So second, this is the reason why all parties in Tamil Nadu, right, including Indian National
11:52Congress, including Patali Mukherjee, who is an alliance partner of BJP, including AADMK,
11:59which is, which is all, which is primary opposition party of DMK, are with us in three-language
12:06policy because they know this is what Tamil, people of Tamil Nadu want.
12:10That is one aspect.
12:11Second aspect is DMK as a party, right, when, since its inception, the first and the foremost
12:19ideology of the party is state rights, federalism.
12:23Then comes equality, equity, so on and so forth, right?
12:26So we have always stood for state rights and, and what is India, right?
12:32And India is, unlike, let's say, Russia, or let's say, let's say an Austria, let's say
12:43an Italy, is not a homogeneous country, right?
12:46Different states, different cultures.
12:48It's a pluralistic society, where ethno-linguistically diverse people live together,
12:54which is why Modi, Prime Minister Modi's forefather, Golwalkar himself said,
12:59more uniformity does not mean more unity.
13:02And more uniformity only brings destruction to the nation.
13:05He wrote in 1970, so when DMK is asking for more diversity,
13:09does not mean that we like the country less, right?
13:12We love the country, which is why we are asking for more diversity.
13:16Because it's an ethno-linguistically diverse country, nowhere in the world that
13:20people of different culture, what is the food habit in Northeast, right?
13:24Completely different to rest of India.
13:25What is the food habit in Kerala?
13:27Completely different to rest of India.
13:28What percentage of people eat meat in Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh?
13:3298 percent.
13:32What percentage of people eat non-vegetarian in Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh?
13:36Less than 5 percent.
13:37So food has a huge difference.
13:39How is the attire?
13:40We wear dhoti, they wear different attire.
13:43The food habits are completely, apart from meat preferences, but even the food habits,
13:48we eat more rice and they eat more chapati.
13:50So everything is different in this country.
13:54But we all come together.
13:56We all sit glued to the TV when India is playing cricket match for India to win.
14:01We all want India to prosper.
14:03But this is unique.
14:05Nowhere in the world, the country is more unique than even the countries of European
14:09Union, not just in socio-economic development, but also in ethno-linguistic diversity.
14:15So for that, you can't force one language or one policy.
14:21But it is the same, I guess, the national education policy is not asking Tamil Nadu,
14:28I mean, not to accept Tamil, right?
14:30Tamil and English will always be there.
14:32But it is just, I think, Hindi that is still creating a problem.
14:37The NEP has never said that Tamil is never going to be the language.
14:43It's always going to be preferred language along with English.
14:45But it's Hindi that's going to come up as a third language, which is, again, is creating
14:51all the issue.
14:52So is there a possibility of a coexistence of, of course, English is always going to
14:57be there.
14:58That's not going to be a problem of Hindi and Tamil being together in that case.
15:02Why Hindi has to be a third language is the problem.
15:05Why can't it be any other language?
15:08Why should students be forced to study three languages?
15:10Show me any country where students study three languages from class one, Switzerland, right?
15:14There are three national languages.
15:19German in Zurich part, French in Geneva part, and the lowest most part Italian.
15:25But I don't think every citizen of Swiss is learning three languages.
15:29They learn in Geneva part, sorry, they learn French and English.
15:33In Zurich part, they learn German and English.
15:35And to communicate with each other, see there, right?
15:38So even in Tamil Nadu, whoever wants learning Hindi can go learn Hindi.
15:42Hindi Prasad Sabha headquarters is in Chennai, right?
15:45Why do you want to enforce one language?
15:47Already the stress deficit in the South, one, because of historical attempts to enforce Hindi.
15:55In 1960s itself, in 1950, it was said that after 15 years, Hindi would lapse to exist.
16:01Sorry, English would lapse to exist.
16:02And Hindi would be the national language in 1965, DMK's protest.
16:05And then there have been numerous attempts.
16:08And even now, Hindi Diwas is being celebrated.
16:12The Home Minister said, Simon, again, that union government working language has to be Hindi.
16:16And many of the exams are conducted only in Hindi and English.
16:19So this kind of indirect imposition is already there.
16:22It is not that we have parliamentary proceedings coming out in 28 languages,
16:26like in the European Parliament, like where the European Parliament, all the member countries,
16:2928 countries, the document government, it's not that.
16:33Already it is skewed.
16:34So in that scenario, you want to make everyone study Hindi, which is clear sign that in the
16:41future, you want to make this country Hindi speaking nation.
16:44But my point is, I'm not demeaning Hindi.
16:46About 500, 500,000 people in Tamil Nadu write that Hindi Pratham exam, highest in India,
16:52non-Hindi speaking, apart from non-Hindi speaking states, right?
16:55So whoever wants to study can study.
16:58But my point is, we learn Tamil here, and then we learn English.
17:02And people in Uttar Pradesh can learn Hindi and learn English to communicate within this country,
17:07with neighboring states, our state, our tongue, outside the state English,
17:12outside India, English, which is why Aranya Ranna, you called Anadu, right,
17:18told back then that why do you need a big dog for a big dog and small dog for a small dog,
17:22when outside of Tamil Nadu, we can use English, outside of Tamil Nadu, this is India and beyond.
17:27And this is more relevant now, because even back then,
17:30there were competing languages, the French was competing.
17:32But now it is very profoundly clear that English is the link language of the world.
17:36Even in Korea, people are studying two languages, right?
17:39The Korean children now study Korean and English.
17:42The Chinese are studying English now, even in strong
17:48countries in European Union with national identity like Germany or France,
17:52they started studying English in school.
17:54And many of the undergrad programs now are being replaced from the mother tongue to English.
17:59The language of white collar jobs is beyond doubt, it is English, except maybe in South
18:04America, even there, there is a small, there is a rapid increase of English use in white
18:09collar jobs. You go to Frankfurt in Germany, 20 years back, it was only German.
18:12But now to work in any job in Frankfurt, you do not need German.
18:16You can survive in Frankfurt without German and with only with English.
18:20Right, right.
18:21So, I do not, and again, three languages, the rural students,
18:26or students in the rural part, right?
18:30It is too much on them. It is nothing to do with the intelligence.
18:32They are very bright, intelligent, it is the same everywhere.
18:35But listen, for them, they will also have, if you are from lower middle class,
18:40poor background in rural part, which means that is likelihood chances that your parents
18:44are not educated, which means they cannot help you in new languages.
18:50And their resources are limited, so they may not be able to send them for fancy tuitions.
18:55And most importantly, they will also have to help their parents on, let us say, household jobs.
18:59Which means, let us say, if a kid in urban area born, let us say, Delhi, South Delhi kid,
19:04who has about eight hours from three o'clock until 11pm to focus on his studies and other
19:10extracurricular activities, right? This kid would only have, let us say,
19:14comes at three, helps parents until six, probably only three hours, four hours to study,
19:18plus no parental support. The South Delhi kid would have parental support, right?
19:22His parents would be teaching him or tuitions. So, all that does not exist.
19:27So, which means already English itself is a burden, because maybe in South Delhi,
19:30the parents speak English. So, he is learning English, he is hearing English from class one.
19:34Now, he has to learn English, despite speaking Tamil at home. So, that is going to take extra
19:40time. So, the time is limited. So, why burden with another foreign language, another language,
19:45it is foreign to him, like a Hindi. Of course, I know.
19:48And it is a difficult job. Even in Noida, Noida, no, important points, Noida and Uttar Pradesh,
19:52if you want, there is, you have two companies I mentioned, there is Wipro, there is Honda.
19:58To get job in Honda, right, core job, you, first the company would check your engineering skills
20:04based on written exam, then your English skills, not your Hindi skills. Same thing in Wipro,
20:09IT job, your English, your English skills, and then your programming skills, programming skills
20:15more weighted. So, as a government, as a policymaker, what will be my focus? The rural
20:20kids, people from the, from poorer backgrounds, my job is to, through education, uplift them,
20:29increase their household income. For that, what should I do? Make them become very good engineers,
20:35very good doctors, STEM. STEM is where the money is. So, for them, in there in class one,
20:40what is important? Fundamental math, fundamental science, right? You cannot,
20:46without learning counting, which you do in class one, maybe division in class three,
20:51and then algebra in class four, calculus in class 11, probability in class nine,
20:56without that you cannot do engineering, you cannot do, right, apart from medicine,
20:59you cannot do any other, any other engineering program, which is a clear marker for economic
21:04prosperity and upliftment. So, I have to focus on all those things, no, government have to focus
21:07on all those things, which is where we are seeing third language, it is not necessary, but
21:11the language can be learned at any point of time. The kid is extremely bright, one in a lakh,
21:16which means he is, he is welcome to learn another language. And then language could be always
21:22learned at any point of time in one's life. I speak five languages, but I learned only two in
21:26school, Tamil and English. I had to go to Gopal and study. Four months I picked up Hindi, because
21:31I was hearing the language. Then I had some extra interest, I learned a little bit of writing.
21:34Then I had to move to Austria, then six months I picked up German, right? So,
21:38your language you can learn. Once, let us say a rural kid from rural part, first time graduate,
21:43very brilliant, knows only Hindi and English, goes to Noida for a job in Wipro, decides to
21:48stay in Noida, he will eventually pick up Hindi in a year. You have to survive.
21:54I mean, of course, by now, we have come to know that the division between North and South is
22:00quite prominent. So, I guess PM Modi Ji is maybe trying to bring both, both, both sides together.
22:08And also recently they had, I mean, BJP had the Kashi Tamil Sangamam. So, do you think
22:15things like this will really bring both sides together? When, of course, the BJP also had
22:20made a statement that they reached out to Mr. Stalin, but somehow they didn't get a response.
22:25What's your take on that? Because as a country, like you said, we, of course, come together only
22:33maybe during cricket match. But do you think such initiatives really help bring both the North and
22:40South, which are poles apart by now, as you can find out with the language division that we have,
22:45going to help us make the country more united? See, I don't think it's a DMK versus BJP or
22:50Tamil Nadu versus UP. I think it's about difference in understanding of the country, India.
22:55Right? So, politically, maybe BJP, which represent major chunk of states in North India, which
23:01account to most of their vote bank, for example, in 2019, 90% of BJP's parliamentarians came from
23:08seven states, I think, and 80% of which are predominantly Hindi speaking. So, their idea
23:14of India is homogeneous. They think India is a homogeneous country. And we say India is a
23:18pluralistic country. I think that is the difference in opinion. But I think, but the irony is that
23:24even the forefathers of RSS, forefather of Modi, the founding fathers of RSS, forefathers of Modi,
23:33they did believe that India is a pluralistic country. They did not believe it to be a
23:37homogeneous country. Of course, they had different radical ideas, which I do not agree. But many of
23:43those thinkers, right leaning thinkers did think of India as a pluralistic country. And I think
23:51that's the difference in idea. I think I don't think it's a Tamil Nadu versus UP. I think the
23:56difference in idea, which I think is created by certain political parties for their political
24:01mileage, because it sells their ideas in those homogeneous states. We are only standing for
24:08our right, saying that Tamil Nadu is as much Indian as Uttar Pradesh. Tamil is as important
24:13as Hindi. Rice is as important as chapati. That's all I'm trying to say. That's what my party is
24:18trying to say. That's what my leader is trying to say. I do not think why we can't coexist.
24:23So then there's a profound trust deficit between BJP and Tamil Nadu. I'm not even saying
24:30DMK. Between Tamil Nadu, if Kasi Sangam had worked, then BJP's vote share would have increased.
24:35If I have to dissect the BJP's vote share, right, even in the parliamentary election,
24:40there's no profound increase from 2014 to 2024. You made four, five chief ministerial candidates,
24:46former chief ministers, movie stars, ex-governor, union minister contest. So when a star candidate
24:52will contest, then there'll be a certain high increase in percentage. And then you cobble
24:56together Patali, Merkel, Kelsi and all those parties, which are much bigger than even BJP.
25:01Right. So because of that, the vote share may appear big. But anyway, that vote share is lower
25:04than the 2014 vote share when BJP came with a similar alliance in Tamil Nadu by decimal points.
25:11So if I have to dissect it, it's not more than three, four percent. So people have not
25:14accepted BJP because, see, people do not want Kasi Sangam. What do people want? People want
25:20more federalism in Tamil Nadu. Give us more federalism. Appoint Hindi teachers in Kendra
25:24Vidyalaya. There are no Hindi teachers in Kendra Vidyalaya. See, that brings up to me another
25:28question. Kendra Vidyalaya was a school started only for students. Primary purpose was union
25:36government staff, people working in central governments. Their children should not suffer
25:39because they'll have intrastate transfers. Right. So then at least in Kendra Vidyalaya schools,
25:48you should have 10 language teachers because these are special schools, fewer in number,
25:52less than 0.11 percent compared to every other school. That means you can at least have 10
25:56teachers. So let's say, because if someone is studying Telugu and English and Hindi, let's say,
26:04in, in, in Andhra Pradesh, he would maybe want to come and study Telugu, Hindi and English in
26:11Tamil Nadu. Fair point. Or let's say a Tamilian working in Uttar Pradesh would want his son to
26:18study Tamil, Hindi and English. So the Kendra Vidyalaya school have Tamil teachers. But the
26:23irony is there are no Tamil teachers in Tamil Nadu itself. OK. Right. So when, when, when,
26:29so when in Kendra Vidyalaya schools, if you are not able to appoint 10 language teachers,
26:35how would three language policy, you will appoint across schools in India, the 10 language or 22
26:41language teachers, languages for 22, teachers for 22 different languages. You know, what would be
26:45the cost? UP has about, let's say, 60,000 government schools. So if you want to appoint at
26:48least out of 22 scheduled languages, if you want to appoint, let's say, 10 language teachers,
26:5310 only, only I am saying 10 language, which means you have to have at least 6 to 1 million
27:01teachers and salary is 1, 1 lakh, which means the budget for language is 1, 1 lakh crores,
27:08which is three times UP's education budget, three times and nearly one-fourth of their
27:17entire revenue, 25% of the revenue of the state, state budget revenue, right?
27:21So it's not theoretically possible. That's why it's, it's obvious that it will become
27:26Hindi eventually, the third language, because there is no other possibility.
27:30Thank you so much for your insight. I know it's not an easy topic. And is that in 10 years down
27:36the line, whether Hindi is a third language or not in Tamil schools, do you still see Hindi
27:42being spoken more, much more than what it is right now in Tamil Nadu, with maybe a lot of
27:47more migrants coming to Tamil Nadu as well, as workers, do you see it happening or no?
27:57See, we see it at Vandhaarai Vaalavekkum Bhoomi, that says whoever comes in Tamil Nadu is welcome,
28:02that has been the culture, has been a long old saying Vandhaarai Vaalavekkum Bhoomi Tamil Nadu,
28:06come prosper, irrespective of your culture, language, religion, right? But I think, see,
28:11across the world, if you look even how migration works is, within an economic unit, people migrate
28:16from place where, migrate from places of low per capita GDP to places with high per capita GDP,
28:25because there's arbitrage, right? Let's say per capita GDP of Tamil Nadu is three times higher
28:29than, let's say Jharkhand, they will come here, because they can send the money back to their
28:34home state. So there is an arbitrage, the quality of life improves. If you go to European Union,
28:40Bosnian migrants, Bosnian, from Bosnia, Balkans rather, they migrate to Germany,
28:45a lot of Turkish have come, a lot of Turkish is spoken, but that doesn't mean that schools
28:49are teaching them Turkish, or Bosnian, or Serbian. German government is very happy to have them.
28:56There are some cultural integration programs, which my government is also happy to give
29:01Tamil tuitions, cultural integration, and no one is stopping them from following the culture,
29:05celebrating Holi, or any of those, their custom, right? No one is stopping them,
29:12the government will encourage. But the point is, that doesn't mean that Hindi has to be taught for
29:18all. If anyone in Tamil Nadu wants to learn Hindi, they are welcome to do so. Tamil Nadu has never,
29:24both BMK, ADMK has never been against anyone studying Hindi. It's only imposition in schools,
29:30because the fundamental difference comes from the fact that Hindi is not the national language.
29:35Hindi is no way superior to Tamil or any other regional language. But no disrespect to,
29:43no disrespect to Hindi or any other language. But the fact is, very simple, all these languages are
29:49the same. It's not based on numbers. Because 28% of the people have Hindi as a mother tongue,
29:54doesn't mean that it becomes a national language or superior. Just because maybe Naga has spoken
29:59by only 5 million people, it becomes inferior. All the languages are the same. Let's respect
30:04all of them. Whoever wants to learn any Indian language, or any global language,
30:08welcome to learn. The state government will help them. But no importance given to one language
30:14over the other. And education, what students will study, how they will study, will be the decision
30:19of the respective state governments. And Tamil Nadu has shown the way for the rest of the country.
30:24So I don't think why we should learn from someone else. It's not me being arrogant,
30:27but just talking with evidence, with data. Thank you.
30:34Thank you so much for coming in Mr. Salem. Thank you so much. Thanks for your insights. It was
30:38really lovely talking to you. And of course, we have been enlightened more than we were
30:42previously. And we all as commoners, maybe we all hope that the thing that's going on right now
30:50will be resolved as soon as possible with the right dialogue maybe between both the parties.
30:55And thanks again. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming in.
30:58Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks.
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