Catch up on all the latest news from across Kent with Gabriel Morris, joined by Labour councillor Teresa Murray and Conservative councillor Habib Tejan.
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00:00Good afternoon, welcome to the KM politics show live here on KMTV.
00:29I'm Gabriel Morris.
00:31Tonight, we'll be breaking down the key political stories affecting Kent.
00:34Coming up, Rachel Reeves' spending statement.
00:37What do the proposed welfare cuts and spending plans mean for Kent?
00:42We'll be getting reaction from our political guests.
00:44Plus, after 14 years of debate, the Lower Thames Crossing is finally moving forward.
00:49But will it be worth the cost?
00:51And Medway Council faces fire and rehire allegations.
00:55Is this fair treatment of workers?
00:57And what actually has happened?
00:59All that and more coming up right here on the Kent politics show.
01:04Well, it's been many years in the making.
01:07Plans first put forward in 2009 for the Lower Thames Crossing.
01:12It's already cost millions of pounds.
01:15Finally this week, it's been given the green light.
01:18But what impact could this have on Kent when it's finally complete?
01:22Our reporter Oliver Leeder de Sacks has been taking a look.
01:26It's sunshine in the shadow of the Dartford Crossing.
01:30But give it a few hours and the roads and roundabouts here in Greenhithe
01:35will be clogged with traffic.
01:38I'm only walking the Amazon there.
01:40It takes me about five minutes, ten minutes to go in there.
01:42When the traffic around us, it takes about one and a half hour to get in there.
01:47So I drive to Bromley every day.
01:49So I do 20 miles.
01:50So literally, I have to go past the Dartford Crossing every day.
01:54And probably three mornings out of seven, it actually impacts me a lot.
01:59So my journey is a 13-mile journey.
02:02It probably takes me an hour and ten minutes every day.
02:05Well, I'm a London captain.
02:06I have to work through the night to avoid the traffic.
02:09But sometimes, if you like, with a lot of things,
02:11it's as long as the crossing, you just can't move anywhere very dear.
02:14There is a glimmer of hope, however.
02:17This week, the government approved a new £9 billion crossing
02:22between Kent and Essex.
02:24With the aim of easing pressure on the vital road link.
02:28Yeah, this is the number one priority for Dartford residents.
02:31When I knock on the door, as I do very regularly,
02:34or talk to people in the streets, in pubs, in my coffee mornings,
02:39the one thing they're united on is they want to see the Dartford Crossing happen.
02:44Because they live every day with the effects of gridlock.
02:47So they can't get to hospital appointments,
02:49can't get the kids to school on time.
02:51A lot of people can't work in Essex
02:54because they can't rely on getting to work
02:58at a time when the employer expects them there.
03:00So that will all change with the Lower Thames Crossing.
03:03The congestion problems in this part of Kent come down to capacity.
03:08The Dartford Crossing was simply never meant to carry this much traffic.
03:12180,000 vehicles make the crossing every single day,
03:18rather than the intended 135,000.
03:23Freight companies in this part of Kent hope the Lower Thames Crossing
03:27will pave the way for faster travel between Essex and us here in the county.
03:33The Lower Thames Crossing is a really vital route for logistics.
03:37The current Dartford Crossing, as we all know,
03:40hugely suffers from regular delays and congestion.
03:44And 70% of the traffic heading to and from the Port of Dover
03:47uses the Dartford Crossing.
03:48So it's not just about an important piece of infrastructure in the southeast,
03:52which will help alleviate congestion here,
03:55but it's also about the vital trade route that it also provides for the rest of the UK.
03:59Not everyone is convinced.
04:01Despite billions being required for the project,
04:05how much of this will fall on taxpayers or private investment is hard to say.
04:12It's going to cause seven years of construction chaos,
04:15but only five years of relief at Dartford.
04:18It's absolute madness that we're spending 10, 12,
04:22probably 16 billion pounds in total with all the other schemes
04:26that we need to make it function.
04:28We might as well just dig a hole and chuck all the money in it
04:31for the good it's going to cause to us.
04:34It may not be a bridge over troubled waters,
04:36but the new crossing has certainly sent ripples up and down the Thames.
04:42Oliver Leader of the SACs for KMTV in Greenhithe.
04:48Well, joining me on the sofa now is Medway Councillor from the Conservative group,
04:52Habib Shashank.
04:53Habib, thank you so much for joining us.
04:54We're still waiting for Theresa Murray to join us.
04:56We'll get her in in just a second.
04:57But Lower Thames Crossing must be welcome news in Kent,
05:03but it's going to have to be built.
05:05Is this going to cause chaos to our roads for the next 10 years as it's being built?
05:10Absolutely. I mean, every construction comes with some level of disruption,
05:16but anything to ease the bottleneck from the Dartford crossing is wholeheartedly welcome.
05:23However, the £9 billion price tag is a little bit of a concern,
05:30and especially when I read that the government will be seeking private funding for that,
05:38that raised some questions about the sustainability of the project.
05:42I mean, £9 billion in comparison to the China Tunnel,
05:46even though it was quite a while ago, which I think was about £4.6 billion.
05:50Or the Dartford crossing, that in today's money would have been around £300 million.
05:57It raised a lot of concerns.
05:59You know, how is that going to be paid for?
06:02What impact is it going to have on road uses?
06:06However, you know, anything to ease that is welcome.
06:10Should Midway residents have to pay a toll to use this crossing?
06:12Because there will be a toll on this.
06:14Should Midway residents be exempt from that, do you think?
06:16Absolutely. I think, you know, I mean, it should be proportionate,
06:21and Midway residents in particular should be exempt.
06:24I believe if you live in Dartford, you've got some sort of concession,
06:28or if you work there, perhaps.
06:29You do indeed, yes.
06:30And I think we need exactly the same.
06:33I mean, and it shouldn't be something that becomes a cash cow.
06:39You know, once it's paid for, I believe then, you know, it should be free to use.
06:45OK, what we'll do, we're going to get Theresa Murray's thoughts on this in just a second.
06:48But before we do that, this week, it's been five years since the first anniversary of that first lockdown back in 2020.
06:55I've been taking a look back at how politics has been influenced in that time.
07:00Faded but not forgotten, the scars of the pandemic remain, not just on our streets, but in our politics.
07:08Five years ago, our local councils and parliament had to adapt overnight,
07:13keeping the country running while navigating an unprecedented crisis.
07:18So I was a health minister during the pandemic.
07:20I was actually the social care minister.
07:22So for me, it was a hard time.
07:25And I know that I worked all day and through the night.
07:30But on the other hand, nothing compared to how hard it was for people who are at the front line,
07:35who put their lives at risk and some health care and social care staff sadly died.
07:40And of course, people who lost loved ones.
07:43And for me, it's a moment to reflect on that impact I had on our society.
07:47Councils found themselves on the front line balancing their usual responsibilities with urgent new public health duties,
07:55coordinating volunteers, setting up testing sites and then rolling out vaccinations.
08:03We had to allocate sites for vaccination and our public health teams had to do a absolute,
08:10they had to do the heavy lifting around supporting our hospitals as well as the public services.
08:16In terms of the outcomes now, it is having an impact on school attendance.
08:20There's a post-Covid legacy there.
08:22It's having significant ramifications on where we put public health financing in the future and other issues.
08:29So this this Covid legacy, so to speak, is going to be ongoing for many, many years.
08:34And there are lessons to be learned from other countries about how we best deal with that.
08:38But beyond logistics and local response, what about politics itself?
08:43And thanks to him and all his colleagues for their cooperation in the current emergency as far as possible across.
08:50For a moment, cross-party unity, a global crisis demanded it.
08:56So we, of course, did the right thing, the responsible thing.
08:59But we, as much as possible, tried to ensure business as usual continued,
09:03because ultimately that's what the residents of Medway expected and needed,
09:08to try and have their council working in a positive way.
09:11And again, I would argue in a lot of ways the most cross-party approach to many aspects of it
09:18that we've seen in the 27-year history of Medway Council.
09:22From this evening, I must give the British people a very simple instruction.
09:26You must stay at home.
09:29But nationally, the unity didn't last.
09:32Political fault lines re-emerged.
09:34Allegations of rule-breaking at the top, while the country was locked down, sparking public outrage.
09:42Politics, last five years, has it changed during the pandemic,
09:45particularly with issues such as Partygate emerging?
09:48Well, I think we saw a lot of individuals who kind of had faith in the system and lost faith.
09:53So yes, that has been a distraction and frustrating,
09:57because I want people, even if they don't agree with my personal views and ambitions,
10:02to want to believe in a democratic process and believe in democracy.
10:06And undoubtedly, for some individuals, that process, particularly with Boris Johnson's leadership,
10:12damaged their confidence in democracy more generally.
10:15Five years on, councils are now finding themselves
10:18in one of the most difficult financial positions they've ever been in.
10:22So did the pandemic reshape politics for good, or just expose its deepest flaws?
10:29Gabriel Morris in Kent.
10:35Well, still joining me on the show fire is Councillor Beeb Dajan
10:37from the Conservative Group on Medway Council,
10:39and also Theresa Murray, Labour and Co-operative Party, also on Medway Council.
10:44So Lower Thames Crossing consultation was delayed during the coronavirus pandemic.
10:49We've seen just there in that report there how the pandemic has influenced us,
10:52but it's given the green light this week.
10:54Is this going to be good news for Medway residents?
10:56I think overall it's good news for everybody who gets stuck in traffic at the moment.
11:02It will be a big infrastructure project.
11:03There will have to be associated road improvements in Medway.
11:07There's no doubt about that, particularly around the Bluebell Hill junctions.
11:10But Junction 3 on the M25 is absolutely at capacity.
11:14Something needs to change.
11:17This will take a long time.
11:18Should Medway residents pay a toll?
11:20Well, I haven't seen anything about a toll yet.
11:24So I suppose I would need to see the detail of that.
11:27I mean, certainly while it's going on, there'll be a bit of pain locally,
11:31but we'll do our best to mitigate that, of course.
11:33It will bring jobs.
11:34It will be a fantastic new civil engineering project, which is a good thing.
11:40And I hope it will ease congestion and therefore improve air quality
11:44and make life easier for drivers.
11:45But look, it waits to be tested.
11:48It's only just got planning permission.
11:49Well, we've got to go to a quick break.
11:50We'll continue discussion in a few minutes with the spring statement in a few minutes time.
15:09Hello and welcome back to the Kent Politics Show, live here on KMTV.
15:14Now Rachel Reeves has used her spring statement this week to announce a series of public spending
15:18cuts.
15:19It's an attempt to balance the books without raising taxes, but the Conservatives have
15:23dismissed it as smoke and mirrors.
15:26Welfare cuts are expected to save more than £3 billion and are amongst some of the proposed
15:32measures.
15:33Joining me on the sofa is Councillor Theresa Murray from the Labour Party and Councillor
15:36Habib Dajan from the Conservatives.
15:38Theresa, I'm going to come to you first.
15:41Lots of spending from health-related, universal credit for new claimants, not rising inflation
15:46under 22s, not being able to claim it, stricter legibility for PIP payments.
15:50Do you support these reforms as a local Midway councillor?
15:53I haven't read the Green Paper yet.
15:55I certainly support the fact that Rachel Reeves has responded to changing circumstances, which
16:01I don't think anybody could have expected, particularly some of the things that are coming
16:05out of the USA and other parts of the world, making things feel unstable.
16:10But I don't support welfare cuts as a solution to everything.
16:15What I do support is better welfare, and I'm particularly concerned about the part of the
16:22narrative that talks about young people who are being written off at a very young age
16:27with mental health problems.
16:29So on the positive side, I really like the right to try that's coming through.
16:34I'm optimistic about the fact that we will give people more support to get back to work
16:39when they can do so.
16:41And I believe what the government are saying, that people who really can't work will still
16:46continue to be helped.
16:48And if this could push 250,000 homes into poverty, you say they had concerns.
16:54Could Midway Council call the government out on this?
16:56No one wants to clobber people who are on welfare.
17:00And I think most people on welfare and anybody who's claimed benefits knows that it isn't
17:03just an easy ride.
17:06We will have to help anyway, and we stand ready to do so with our household support
17:09fund and lots of the work we've done through our welfare and benefits team.
17:13But we want to work with partners as well to help people get back to work.
17:16And if it turns out that there are things that I do find unpalatable, yes, of course
17:20I will call the government out on that.
17:22But actually, none of the things that we've heard in the media yet are the things in the
17:26Real Green Paper, which obviously over time will have readings and get changed.
17:32And none of the changes are coming in immediately.
17:36So there will be time to adjust should there be some cuts for people to face.
17:41But I absolutely understand that some people feel very frightened by this, feel very nervous
17:46about what might happen to them.
17:48I don't want them to feel like that.
17:49I want them to feel that they will be supported, especially if they are not working and could
17:54be in a position to do so.
17:55So my jury is out on it at the moment.
17:59I would repeat to you, Gabriel, I don't think that welfare cuts are an answer as an oven
18:05in themselves and we may need to consider other measures as time goes on, always keeping
18:10an eye on the world economy and our pledge to grow the British economy.
18:14Let's bring Habib in.
18:15I was at the pub the other night, someone was talking to me, he said Labour's acting
18:18more like the Conservatives at the moment and the Conservatives are acting more like
18:21Labour.
18:22What do you think is going on here, Habib, and what do you make of the budget this week?
18:26I think it's disappointing for many people.
18:29I'm surprised that Theresa can't see that because our inbox has had many concerns raised
18:37from people who are very, very worried about what is going to unfold, especially those
18:45in work that receive the personal independent payments.
18:50They are very, very concerned.
18:52They are our most vulnerable in our society and what this Spring Statement does, by making
18:59it difficult for those who are vulnerable to receive the benefit they do, they're going
19:03to push them to charities and the charities have been taxed with extra national insurance
19:11contributions.
19:12They're already fully stretched.
19:13So really, this is a recipe for disaster and it's going to leave our residents worse off.
19:21It's out there in the public that 250,000 residents across the country are going to
19:29be worse off than they are and they were before this statement.
19:33And it's very worrying.
19:36I think it's a ticking time bomb.
19:38I think it's a situation that's been created by decisions made by politicians that's going
19:46to affect the most vulnerable.
19:47There are choices and the choice, probably the easiest choice, to target the most vulnerable
19:54in our society.
19:55I think it's appalling.
19:56Do you agree?
19:57Well, the choice that the Conservatives would have made had you won the election was in
20:00your manifesto, wasn't it, Habib?
20:02You wanted to cut £12 billion out of welfare, twice as much as the Labour Party is predicting
20:08doing.
20:09So obviously you've changed your position.
20:11That's welcome if you didn't want to take away £12 billion, neither do I and neither
20:15does anybody in the Labour Party.
20:17I think we have to wait and see.
20:19I've acknowledged that people are frightened.
20:20I have acknowledged that we will make sure, and you're a Midway councillor, so we'll be
20:24doing that together, that people know where to come for support and advice at the council.
20:29But I don't take any lessons from the Conservatives and I certainly don't think whoever you've
20:33spoken to down the pub gave that said Labour's gone like the Tories.
20:37They're wrong.
20:38Send them to me.
20:39I'll put them on the right path.
20:41Habib, don't we need to crack down on benefit forwards?
20:44Some of these claims could reform and encourage more people into work.
20:49In Midway, this could be good for the local economy, right?
20:52Yeah, absolutely.
20:53Look, anything that gets people into work, who can work, is good for the economy.
20:59But to target our most vulnerable, especially those who can't work for whatever reason,
21:05that thing, they need to be supported regardless, you know.
21:09So yes, it's good for the economy to get people into work, but what I see here is targeting
21:16the most vulnerable, which I think is wrong.
21:19Well, the most vulnerable are not being targeted.
21:23The people being targeted are people who could work but need help to return.
21:28So you don't have to worry about the most vulnerable people who can never work.
21:31They will continue to be supported.
21:34You know, Keir Starmer himself has got experience of disability in his family with his mother
21:38and his brother.
21:39He's not someone who is unsympathetic, and he certainly didn't want to and wouldn't have
21:45any truck with cutting £12 billion out of the welfare budget like you would have done
21:50if you got into government.
21:51Look, this is not looking good, you know.
21:54It was, you know, our pensioner before, on the winter fuel allowance, the most vulnerable.
22:00Now it's, you know, people who are claiming universal credit or the personal independent
22:08pension.
22:09So who's next?
22:10Who's next?
22:11I remember when your party in Medway wanted to take back £20 a week that people on universal
22:17credit had been given and made a great big fuss about doing so, and we opposed that very
22:23much at the time.
22:25And again, this idea the most vulnerable pensioners have been attacked by the removal of the winter
22:31fuel allowance.
22:32They haven't.
22:33The most vulnerable pensioners are on pension credit, and in fact we've seen a big rise
22:36in people coming forward to get pension credit in Medway because we've done events to encourage
22:41those who were not claiming.
22:43People not claiming benefits they're entitled to are a much greater number than anyone who's
22:47doing benefit fraud.
22:49Benefit fraud actually is quite a small number of people and often associated with organised
22:54crime actually, and I'm all for, you know, tackling people who are not, who are breaking
23:00the rules, but generally speaking there are more people to come forward who could claim
23:04benefit and obviously we will work to make sure that they're getting their fair share
23:07of welfare too.
23:08Let's look at a growth forecast, down to 1% for 2025, how's that going to impact Medway's
23:13economy?
23:14Disappointing.
23:15No one has hidden behind that in government, but that I'm afraid is a result of the situation
23:21that we find ourselves in the world, so some of the measures the government are taking
23:25are designed to mitigate that, and as you know the Office of Budget Responsibility has
23:30made a long-term forecast seeing growth gradually rise again over the lifetime of this parliament,
23:35but we've got to keep a very close eye on it.
23:37In Medway at the moment things are doing okay, we've heard of many new jobs with BAE Systems,
23:44not least because the government is improving the defence budget, we've created 80 new jobs
23:48ourselves in adult social care, I'm going to build a new care home that will create
23:53more jobs and investment hopefully in Medway, and we will continue to look for investment,
23:58Medway of course is our priority.
24:00Is that an innovation centre?
24:01That's going to be, that's our preferred site, absolutely, yep.
24:04So you know we've completely...
24:05That could have been a Netflix business.
24:08Well I don't think Netflix was ever on the cards, in fact they haven't actually even
24:11got to Ashford yet have they, because they're saying that they don't like the transport
24:15links, so you know look, if Netflix or anybody else wanted to come to Medway we would welcome
24:19them with open arms, but we are doing what is within our gift to do by making investment
24:25and doing sensible borrowing at the council.
24:27I want to bring in Habib quickly before we go on to our last topic, long-term predictions
24:30have become more positive, could it be good for Medway's economy long-term?
24:35It could be, I mean long-term prediction looks good, but you know there's other things in
24:41the external environment that you know, we remain optimistic, but there are other things
24:45in the external environment that we have no control over, you know we hear a lot of talk
24:50about the trade war and tariffs and we don't know what's going to unfold.
24:56Let's leave it there for the time, let's just go on to our last topic here, this week Kent
25:02Messenger has been reporting that swimming teachers in Medway have accused the council
25:06of using fire and rehire tactics after self-employed roles were advertised just days before redundancy
25:11notices were issued.
25:12Four swimming teachers and two aerobics instructors say they were formally notified around ten
25:17days ago.
25:18So, Theresa, what is happening here?
25:20Has Medway been using fire and rehire tactics?
25:22There's been a huge amount of misunderstanding and misinformation, absolutely we're not using
25:27fire and rehire tactics, our government has outlawed those and obviously we will comply
25:32with the law and wouldn't want to treat people like that.
25:35Consultation started actually in November, we're bringing in a different way of managing
25:41sports and leisure, we've got people who have been promoted into sports officer jobs and
25:47senior sports officer jobs, there are over 60 of those and 52 of them have got swimming
25:52instructor qualifications.
25:55So for the people affected, they were given, yes it is, when anybody loses a job it's disappointing
26:02for them, but they were given plenty of notice within the right times.
26:06This has been clumsily handled actually, not least in the media and in other places, but
26:12we want to make sure that people are treated fairly, absolutely all the swimming lessons
26:16are in place and as I say, 52 people are qualified to teach swimming and there is
26:23an opportunity if people want to take it.
26:25We've got a few seconds, Pete, what's the Conservative's reaction to this, we've got
26:27about 20 seconds.
26:28I think it's clumsily handled, I think it's understood and I think it's appalling to give
26:33your employees two months notice, or less than, consultation started in November, stopped
26:41and then restarted and got rid of them.
26:46Out of frame, we're going to have to leave it there, there we go.
26:48We've run out of time on that one, we'll be back next week with more stuff.