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00:00To warn everybody right now, Tim McMahon was at the Warrior Game last night and works for ESPN
00:06and the Hoop Collective podcast and he's a fantastic voice on the league. You may, if you're
00:12really tapped into the league, recognize his name through years of covering the Mavericks, but now
00:17it's expanded a little bit. However, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a book out that's
00:23literally about Luka and what a time to come out with a book about Luka. Pretty awesome. Yeah,
00:30called The Wonder Boy. Yeah, not The Wonder Bread, which I think was a working title for a while as
00:37he was getting a little doughy on the midsection. That's what Nico was pointing to when he traded
00:42him, but let's find out on the River Islands guest line. Tim McMahon joining us here on
00:49and yeah, the book is The Wonder Boy about Luka and what a ride it's been for Luka.
00:56But what was the timing of all of this, Tim? I mean, purely coincidental, absolutely,
01:02or absolutely shocking. And 8,000 copies have been printed at the time of the trade. And yes,
01:08I did have to rush to write a final unplanned chapter, but the whole premise of the book is
01:14about the pressure on a franchise when they draft a project through the prism of Luka
01:19and the Mavericks. And look, there's been all kinds of drama and twists and turns and
01:24dysfunction as they've tried to build this contender around him to make sure there was
01:30never a reason for him to look to lead. And then obviously the plot twist, spoiler alert here,
01:37somehow after going through the finals before the next trade deadline, they decided to dump this guy.
01:43So I can't say I saw that ending coming. I always thought if there was a trade, it would be because
01:50they failed to give him a chance to win. And he would ask out. Obviously, that's not the
01:54way things went down. And it's one way for the story to end, that's for sure.
02:01I mean, Tim, we want to talk dubs, but just, I mean, you're here and I'm dying to know somebody
02:07who's actually tapped in and has reported on this for years. What was this actually about
02:15as far as the Mavericks were concerned? I mean, you know, just to cut down to it,
02:20this was about Nico Harrison not believing in Luka Doncic as a franchise centerpiece.
02:26And, you know, the conditioning stuff, obviously you guys are joking about, but that was a primary
02:32factor in this. And I'll just point out, yes, the conditioning issues are a concern,
02:37and he averaged 34-10-9 and led a team to the finals last year. Both of those things
02:42are true. I would think one would outweigh the other, so to speak, but Nico Harrison disagreed.
02:50That was also all part of really the relationship between Luka and especially Nico, but some others
02:56in the Mavericks organization frame. And there were people who were let go by the organization
03:04that Luka was very fond of, and all these things kind of played a part. But again,
03:09after they scrambled to build a contender round, and after they went to the finals,
03:14after they gave up their control of their first round picks from 27-30, they made a move to get
03:21rid of him and, by Nico's own admission, create a three-to-four-year time frame that obviously has
03:27been seriously damaged by the injury issues since the trade. And, you know, once that time frame
03:34ends, the credit card bill is due. And, you know, there's a lot of things that if you look at it
03:39from a logical perspective, it is hard to make sense of. Yeah, and here we sit with Anthony
03:44Davis, now a Maverick kind of, and Klay Thompson ostensibly left holding the bag as Kyrie gets
03:49hurt, and so the whole Dallas thing kind of has disintegrated after the move. I'm interested in
03:55your thoughts on the Warriors, and I know it's a small sample coming off of last night where
04:00they were really flat against a depleted Denver team, but what do you make of this Warriors team
04:05and their viability with Jimmy now joining Stephan Draymond for the stretch run? Well, I've seen him
04:11in person twice since Jimmy trade. They lost in Dallas, they lost last night, so I'm certainly
04:17not very impressed. Obviously, you know, maybe I'm the curse, but I know more games. Tim, you're
04:26not going tonight, are you? Well, I'm not. No, I'm actually heading to Cavs Clippers as we speak.
04:31Okay, good to make. If they're going to make a deep run in the Western Conference, you know,
04:35I'm going to see him again at some point. But look, the Jimmy trade is obviously really kind
04:41of breathe life back into breathe hope back in to that franchise, despite the fact that we haven't
04:47seen him really dominate like you know he's capable of. It's reinvigorated Steph. Obviously,
04:54Steph's on fumes right now. I mean, Steve Kerr made that clear last night. I think you could
04:59see the mental fatigue as much as anything with some of the insane turnovers that he had last
05:04night. You know, they're going to have to kind of manage trying to give kind of keep Steph fresh and
05:10give him rest versus not flipping into the play-in. Ideally, he's going to be able to rest
05:15while other teams are in the play-in games and not the Warriors, so that'll be interesting to see
05:20how that balances. But if Steph is playing, you know, the kind of basketball that he has recently
05:27that we've seen over the course of his career, if they get playoff Jimmy, they're going to be
05:32a real threat. I think you can look at the record, not the strongest stretch of schedule
05:36since Jimmy's been there, but I think you look at the record with him in uniform and it's eye-opening.
05:43Tim McMahon of ESPN and the Hoop Collective Pod is with us here on Weatherden Dibs and was at
05:48the Warriors game last night and is never allowed to go to another one again. But
05:54let's talk about that a little bit, Tim. If Steph is on fumes in March, then why and how
06:02is it realistic that this is somehow going to get better over the next two months?
06:08He needs to be recharged. He needs to be plugged in. That's obviously why he's not playing tonight.
06:17I don't think that him being on fumes is any kind of final conclusion. I don't think that
06:23we've seen the last spectacular basketball from Steph Curry this season. Obviously, the guy takes
06:29great care of himself. He's going to take tonight off. We'll see if there's another rest game or two
06:35for him down the stretch of the regular season. Again, my assumption is that Steph has great
06:42basketball left to be played down the stretch this season and going to the playoffs. If he does,
06:49the Warriors are going to have a real chance at making a run. If he doesn't,
06:53they'll be on vacation by May. You look at last night and it's a small sample. I understand that
06:58you're 0-2 since Jimmy's come and we're kind of holding it against you. But when you look at
07:04Denver and the size and the length and the force with which they played without Jokic and Murray,
07:10is that the one team that you think is the worst matchup for the Warriors in the first round?
07:16Obviously, what is it? Nine straight wins for the Nuggets over the Warriors. Last night was
07:22really a weird kind of spooky type of thing. I was on NBA Today with Udonis Haslam this afternoon.
07:29Obviously, he knows Jimmy well. He might have a little bit of a bone to pick with Jimmy. I'm not
07:33sure. Perhaps from the way things left in Miami, but he made a good point. That's the big athletic
07:42defenders are the ones who give Jimmy trouble. Aaron Gordon's a really tough matchup for him.
07:48You saw that in the finals when the Nuggets and the Heat matched up. He is the type of guy who
07:54can fare well in that matchup against Jimmy and kind of neutralize some of the advantage Jimmy
08:00has, whether he's usually either quicker or stronger than whoever is guarding him.
08:07Jokic is a matchup problem for every single team in the league right now. It's not like
08:11the Warriors are unique in that regard. I don't think the Nuggets are going to be a tough matchup
08:18for anybody. But again, the track record against Golden State would say especially the Warriors.
08:22Tim, I wonder what your thoughts are on Oklahoma City in general from this perspective. They're
08:29twelve and a half clear of the rest of the conference. Is all this conversation about
08:34matchups and who would fit where? Is it all rearranging deck chairs or is Oklahoma City
08:40actually vulnerable because of lack of experience? Well, look, Oklahoma City has the best point
08:47differential in the NBA history. So the idea that they're not a formidable number one seed
08:53is obviously ridiculous. The only real reason to doubt OKC is because you haven't seen them do it
08:59before. It gets back to you. They have a relative lack of playoff experience. Last year, they lost
09:06in the second round to the Mavis. That series was actually dead even on the cumulative scoreboard
09:12over six games. It's not like they just got mowed over. But I mean, they're the clear-cut favorites.
09:19That doesn't mean they're invincible. And honestly, when you talk to other teams at the
09:23Western Conference playoff picture, for whatever reason, whether it's logical or not, the Thunder
09:29aren't feared by their foes in the West. So we'll see how it plays out. I know I would put my money
09:36on OKC coming out of the West. But again, until they do it, they've got to prove it.
09:43You just said that they have the highest point differential in the history of the association.
09:48Have the other teams that have been up there on that list, have they all gone on to be champions?
09:53What's that list like, Tim? I would have to double-check it, but I believe so. The record
10:00is 12.3, give or take a fraction of a point. I believe OKC is at 12.5 now. It was the 71-72
10:11Lakers who were at 12.3, the team that ran off 33 straight wins and won a title. So look,
10:17point differential is not the end-all, be-all, but that's a pretty convincing stat.
10:23Yeah, and it just shows that when they win, they win big, and when they lose, they lose small.
10:28It just struck me when you said that, because Mark and I kind of have appropriate fear. We
10:33don't want the Warriors to be the eighth seed, but I wonder, from a national viewpoint, do you think
10:38that OKC is getting the respect that it deserves, considering how good they've been in the regular
10:43year? I mean, not really, but you know what? Neither did the Celtics last season. I mean,
10:50seriously, until a team wins a championship, there's always going to be people poking holes
10:56in them. There's always going to be people doubting them, and especially when it's a team
11:00as young as Oklahoma City, where almost every guy on that roster, with the exception of the team
11:09really good role players that they've brought in over the summer, almost every other guy on that
11:13roster is like 26 or younger, and they have a little bit of playoff experience, but not a lot.
11:19But again, if you just put the numbers on a piece of paper and don't attach it to a team's
11:26naming fee, this team is overwhelmingly by far the best team in the Western Conference,
11:32and there's really not even a conversation. Hoop Collective Pod, Tim McMahon, ESPN,
11:39top NBA voice out there for sure was at the game last night. We had a conversation about Steve Kerr
11:46a lot yesterday, Tim, because he just became the all-time winningest head coach of the Warriors,
11:52and certainly he gets plenty of love around here. However, for somebody who's accomplished as much
11:58as he has, there's a good section of the fan base that still questions him a lot on a night-in
12:05and night-out basis. What is the overall national view around the league of Steve Kerr as a coach?
12:14Those four championship rings shine pretty bright, man. The Warriors obviously,
12:21because of the success that they've had during the, I'm not going to call it the Steve career,
12:26during the Steph Curry era, during the era of this dynasty, that becomes such a high-profile
12:32team. The part of that is every single move is going to be questioned. There's going to be
12:36second-guessing. That's part of being a coach for any franchise, but especially a franchise
12:41as high-profile as the Warriors. Obviously, the guy doesn't have four championship rings because
12:50solely of his coaching prowess, inheriting the Splash Brothers and Draymond and the roster
12:58that he did. You don't win without talent, but Steve Kerr has proven himself to be a heck of a
13:04coach. I think that if you talk about his strengths, you would go more EQ than IQ.
13:14Is he a top five X's and O's guy? I don't know, but he's not a dummy, that's for sure.
13:25I think he's pretty good at every aspect of coaching. He's just especially good
13:29at the motivation and ego management and the psychological aspects of things.
13:35Does that EQ now matter more than the IQ in this day and age where you've got
13:4115 highly paid stars usually on every team and social media and all the other distractions? Does
13:47that become a greater skill in this day and age as opposed to being able to drop a good
13:52out-of-bounds play? I was talking to a rookie head coach recently over the last few years.
14:00There was a guy who at the time was a rookie head coach. I said,
14:02what has surprised you about the job? He said, only about 10% of this is actual X's and O's.
14:09All the other stuff you have to spend more time on, focus more on. If you don't get the
14:16ego management and the psychological stuff right, or I should say if you get that stuff wrong,
14:25you can be as smart as you want to be. It's not going to work.
14:29In this book that I've got coming out next week, there's a lot of stuff in there about
14:33the Luka Doncic-Rick Carlisle relationship. Rick Carlisle is a top three X's and O's coach,
14:39but he completely botched the ego management, the psychological stuff with Luka from his rookie year
14:45on. Basically, that put a real quick expiration date on that relationship. Obviously, Steve Kerr
14:53is on year whatever coaching Steph Curry. Look, Steph Curry, as far as superstars to coach,
14:59he's kind of a dream guy, but he's also had Draymond that whole time, who's a phenomenal
15:05player, not always a picnic to coach. This kind of longevity, it's not possible in the NBA unless
15:15you are really excelling at those other aspects of coaches that aren't about what kind of plays
15:21you're running, your defense schemes, and those sort of things. Tim, the Warriors are in the
15:26process of still assessing Jonathan Kaminga and his value coming this offseason and also trying
15:32to re-inject him into the lineup at an important time. What was your take on his play last night
15:39and how he's going to fit in going forward? Yeah, honestly, last night, he had a bucket
15:45into the third quarter. I'm like, geez, I hadn't really noticed Kaminga at all tonight until now.
15:50He was a guy who, about a month before the trade deadline, I would have put down a wager on him
15:57being traded. I felt like it had kind of reached the point with him where either you're going to
16:03trade him or you're going to pay him. Now, we'll see that there's always sign and trade scenarios
16:08in the summer, but clearly, he turned the corner during that January going into really before he
16:18got hurt where he was showing something to the Warriors. He had made them believe that he was
16:26going to be or could be part of their future, so it'll be fascinating to see how the summer
16:32plays out with him. Obviously, it's not just about evaluation, but it's about negotiations
16:37in these circumstances. But again, for a guy who I thought was going to get traded before the
16:43deadline, I don't think I would make that same bet now. In terms of this summary, I do think he's
16:50going to be part of the future in Golden State. Yeah, yeah, that definitely feels that way,
16:54and Joe Lacob's recent comments would be commensurate with that. Tim, thank you so
16:59much for coming on. Great to have you, and as mentioned, don't attend any more Warrior games,
17:03please. Hey, like I told you boys, if they enter their business in the playoffs,
17:09they're going to have to see me at some point. Okay, all right. Well, that felt more like a
17:13threat than a promise, Tim, to be honest. Appreciate it, Phil. Yep, thanks, thanks.
17:18We'll talk to you soon. All right, take care. All right, there it is. Tim McMahon.