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00:00Spending you know, which is all of the which is most the federal spending is entitlements
00:05so
00:06That that's that's like the big one to eliminate
00:10Welcome back. The panel is still here Anna Palmer president
00:13Trump has said entitlements will not be touched and there you heard Elon Musk say it's the big one
00:19It's what's fueling most of government spending. So what are your sources telling you about how this is gonna play out?
00:25I mean it is the big one
00:27but it's also why you saw the Trump administration pull back from anything in Medicare or Medicaid because those are kind of the third rail
00:33Republicans don't want to be talking about that, but we were speaking to Republican senators
00:36I think two things really stood out to me this week one. They are still on board with what this administration is doing
00:42They go back home cutting, you know, wasteful fraudulent spending plays really well
00:47and I think the second thing has been really interesting as these cabinet secretaries have come on board the wings of Elon Musk are being
00:52Clipped and Elon Musk is also coming to the hill
00:55He came and talked to Senate Republicans gave them his cell phone number
00:59If you have a problem with something that's been cut in your state in your district get in touch
01:04That is some hand-to-hand comment that you don't typically see from an administration Eugene
01:08We felt exactly what Anna's saying that that Elon Musk's wings had been clipped in a response that
01:14Secretary Besant had when I asked him how big are the cuts gonna be to the IRS?
01:18He said we're gonna launch a review Elon Musk was not launching reviews. He's just slashing things
01:23I mean, it's a very different approach that he revealed it is because it shows that the blowback that came from the speed at which
01:30Elon Musk and Doge were operating and kind of the chaos that was creating created some of the administration did not like it something
01:37Donald Trump did not like right this why we there was that blow up at that cabinet meeting where Donald Trump told the cabinet secretaries
01:44No, you're in charge. Elon's like a helper, right?
01:47Doesn't know that
01:49Besant actually kind of had to tussle publicly with Elon before right he in February had to say no
01:55He's not in our systems in the way that he's he and the Doge kids are kind of saying it
02:00And so that shows the frustrations that have been building in the secretaries who want to run their own departments
02:06That's coming out and now Donald Trump is changing things because of it
02:10Yeah
02:11I mean
02:11I think look if you look in the poll to
02:13Nearly two-thirds of people support the tenants of Doge and some will argue go faster. Some are you go slower?
02:19I think the most important thing
02:22The White House and Elon Musk need to do is is come up with a more concerted assistant narrative
02:28about
02:29The arc of why this needs to happen and a process and I think that you know
02:35Also in that poll I was struck by the number of people who claim to
02:39Know somebody who's been impacted by a government reduction cut or something
02:44Yeah, you know pushing 30% that includes a lot of people including probably farmers who are worried about tariffs
02:50But nonetheless, this is out in the mainstream and people are worried about it. They support it
02:55They understand it
02:56But they want to they need to hear a consistent clear message from the government that
03:01Disconnect where the administration is not doing enough to explain exactly what they're doing
03:05I think you've taken that off the prize, right?
03:09Sure, it generically everyone's for you know, getting waste out of government, right? Who's not for getting waste out of government?
03:16for for for four months going up into the election
03:20We sat around this table talked about inflation the price of eggs inflation the price of eggs
03:24And 55% of Americans in our NBC polling says that they've not done enough to focus on bringing down bringing down bringing down cost
03:32It's an opening for Democrats. It is absolutely an opening quite frankly quite frankly for Democrats and look and I heard it
03:39you know secretary sit around your table and talk about sort of how they're they've been focused on on on on the economy bringing down
03:45Costs and what and what have they been doing to do it?
03:48If I look at what they've been most focused on from day one quite frankly is diversity, right?
03:54It's quite frankly going after diversity and going after equity a lot more than they've gone after
03:58Cutting the price of eggs if they've spent as much time on price of eggs as they going after diversity
04:03Eggs might be free at this point
04:05One of the striking moments of this week was the moment where President Trump basically had a car show at the White House
04:14Tesla's on display with Elon Musk
04:16It comes as of course Tesla's sales have been dropping
04:20Elon Musk's approval ratings much lower than President Trump's by the way the optics of this and is it
04:27complicated for the White House
04:29Well, it's amazing that they're doubling down on Elon Musk because to Cornell's point. This is the opening for Democrats
04:35They're already starting to run ads featuring Elon Musk as the boogeyman. This gives them the b-roll and the
04:44Mixing business with with the work of the government. Yeah, Eugene
04:47We should note if President Biden did actually have electric cars at the White House as well
04:53So we've seen this type of display, but Tesla yeah, well, yeah
04:57And and that's what makes it so complicated because in this case you have Elon Musk who works at the White House with President Trump
05:04Well, so I looked at that and I thought
05:07There's so many parallels between how Donald Trump sees himself and I think how he sees Elon Musk
05:13Here's a person who's wealthy who's wildly successful has great
05:18Property at least at least Donald Trump has great property
05:21Doesn't need to do this is doing this because they believe the country is headed in the wrong direction
05:26and they have a unique ability to come impact and improve it and
05:31Then they had been vilified Donald Trump was vilified for what he tried to do
05:36and he sees Elon Musk being vilified and that parallel and
05:41New Tesla stock has dropped nearly 50% since Christmas. He he's paying a price for his involvement and
05:48He doesn't need to do it a poor
05:52Man in the world you are now I think it's I hear you on that but
06:00Well, then don't do it
06:04Most Americans would argue we don't want you to do it
06:07I'm not sure. That's true. You look at two-thirds of the country believes the government needs to be reformed
06:12And so a great personal risk for his businesses. He's doing this. He's also acknowledged there have been mistakes
06:19Way he's doing
06:21and by the way
06:22he you know a billionaire is not someone that most Americans gonna think understands their way of life and understands that the
06:28Programs and and and things in the government that actually helped them and you know what he's showing
06:32He's showing that he does not in fact understand of just sort of what's mainstream America's is focused on right?
06:38And and the ideal that what Biden did at the White House is similar to to the Trump basically
06:44Being a salesman and Hawking the Tesla's on the front lawn of the White House is completely different
06:48The ad writes itself. Oh, right, but Democrats aren't doing it immediately the next day
06:54There should have been just that ad to show that
07:04You know when you talk to them behind the scenes they explain the Elon of it all in a much better way than they do
07:10When they go on television, they don't talk about him as an oligarch behind the scenes, right?
07:14They talk about him as someone who is in their eyes doing this doing doge
07:18Because he wants to help his businesses at the end of the day, right? They're talking about that conflict of interest
07:23That's something that the American people actually understand
07:25but they again continue to miss an opportunity to actually do that and a final 30 seconds the
07:31Relationship between Trump and must one of the most extraordinary and I'm told his low poll numbers actually helped
07:37Solidify that relationship. I mean we've all been watching so closely. When is this gonna blow up right famously and so far
07:44I think Sarah points it out
07:45They're really similar figures and this is the only time you've seen Trump do an interview with his cabin sector
07:51It let him speak like this. It's pretty astounding and we'll all be watching to see how long it works
07:55We certainly will what a great conversation guys. Thank you so much. That is all for today
08:01Thank you so much for watching. We will be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's meet the press
08:06News
08:11Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher and
08:14Republican strategist Sarah Fagan. Thanks to all of you for being here after a very busy week
08:19My goodness Eugene a lot to get to let me have you kick it off here
08:2454% of voters saying they disapprove of President Trump's handling of the economy
08:28What were some of your key takeaways from this poll as it relates to the president and and his first two months in office?
08:34Yeah, I think warning signs right? I think for Donald Trump
08:38He can look at what Joe Biden went through and learn a lot of lessons
08:41we were in briefing rooms together when you were covering the White House and and we heard over and over age to
08:47President Biden saying laughing at us when we asked about inflation and whether that was an issue for Joe Biden
08:52This feels like that moment
08:54the difference is that
08:55Donald Trump understands people's feelings are sometimes more important than anything when there are voters and so the key is one
09:02The policy has to move and make things better
09:04But they have to also have to explain to people showing their work what they're doing
09:09And I think that's the thing that they have to focus on moving forward
09:11That's a really important point explaining so important to the American people Sarah. Let's talk about some of the other numbers
09:1971% of Republicans say they identify with the MAGA brand but only 28% of independents feel positively
09:26Toward President Trump. We are really seeing what we've been reporting on for months
09:30Which is this coalescing when it comes to Republicans around President Trump, but when it comes to independence, he does have a challenge
09:37Yeah, I think he does I think in part because they were rented voters, right?
09:42You know many of the independents voted for Donald Trump because they didn't like the Democrats. They didn't support Joe Biden
09:49so it's not surprising that when you have a few weeks of economic turmoil in the news that they're going to go back to a
09:56position of
09:57Disfavor so to speak. I don't think the White House is looking at poll numbers right now
10:01I believe that when you talk to people there
10:04they have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reform government to rethink the way the government takes in revenues and
10:12Supports the programs that people need and that's what they're focused on. The question is how much runway do they have?
10:18Yeah, Cornell pick up there and let's talk about what we're seeing for the Democrats
10:23Historic low numbers and it comes against the backdrop of this extraordinary fight that we saw play out
10:28You saw senator Murphy saying we've got to move in a different direction and our democracy depends on he said in a year
10:35The democracy could be gone. We could actually this is a really important conversation that I wish we had more time for one thing
10:42I think Republicans the White House might not be looking at it
10:47But if you're a House Republican and a tough swing seat, you gotta be looking at it, right?
10:51He's gone from an NBC's polling from from a majority approving of a Zaland economy to now
10:58Underwater approving of his economy and that number on inflation is minus 13 overall. It's minus 36 among or 32 among
11:05Independent voters so that middle-of-the-road voter that House Republicans are absolutely gonna need they are watching what we're doing on inflation
11:12And you also see an NBC polling how the majority don't think they're focused at all
11:17Enough or actually fighting it fighting inflation
11:19so it may not be a problem for the White House if I'm running for for for a seat as a Republican and
11:24In this coming midterm, I would be very concerned about it on the on the Democrat side
11:29I think this I think we're a really important inflection point for the Democrats, right?
11:34And I think that conversation I know we'll get into that conversation with the senator here a moment
11:38But when you look at the the collapse of that Democratic positive, right if you look at independent voters, right?
11:44independent voters
11:45Underwater 32 36 points with Democrats where Republicans are independent voters underwater around this round roughly the same mark
11:53This problem is that with the base and the core of the Democrat Party
11:56They are there as far underwater with young voters as I've seen and I work for Obama
12:01I've never I'm not seeing Democrats this far underwater had only 49% of African Americans have a positive view of it
12:08So a lot of this is really around the core and these young voters in that fight that you see happening right now
12:14Is really sort of encapsulating the problem for Democrats
12:19yeah
12:19and at the root of the problem for both parties and it is the economy the
12:24frustration that people feel that they haven't started to see prices come down yet under President Trump the
12:30Frustration that they feel about the disunity in the Democratic Party and you heard senator Murphy say
12:36He thinks that they should have taken the risk and move forward with shutting down the government
12:41I thought his comments around leader Schumer were pretty
12:44Fascinating as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you are seeing such
12:49Frustration with Chuck Schumer and really all the Democrats
12:52Kind of channeling their frustration with the fact that they didn't they don't have a unified message that they haven't found a way
12:58To go up against this president in an effective way and to bring along kind of the base of their party
13:04You know whether it was
13:06You know the senator today or if you look at what house minority leader and you played the the sound of that next question
13:13that is
13:15Stunning in 20 years of reporting on Capitol Hill
13:18You have never seen the kind of intra party fight get on display in that dramatic a fashion
13:24You shouldn't talk about that extraordinary moment
13:27I asked senator Murphy couple different times if he had confidence in Schumer eventually he got there and said yes
13:34But it took a couple of tries but with a Kim Jeffries boy
13:38That was stunning when he wouldn't just say yes
13:41I have confidence in my colleague or he could have said ridiculous question instead of next question, right?
13:47There's so many ways to get out of that that all of these politicians
13:50Understand and have been doing it for a long time as we all know
13:54so the fact that he did it makes very clear a couple things the
13:57Frictions that have been playing out behind the scenes between Schumer and Jeffries the kind of different leaders
14:01They are Schumer kind of sees Jeffries as like this new guy who has a lot to learn in leadership and Jeffrey sees him as
14:08like an old guy
14:09Maybe learn too much and it needs to listen to the party a little bit more
14:12And so that playing out is exactly why when I talk to Democrats
14:16They say that this is going to get worse before it gets better. It's gonna get it's gonna get way worse
14:22I mean look the Democratic Party is maybe 10-15 years behind where the Republicans were you go back to what sense?
14:28Well, you go back to 2010 and 1112 when we had put forward all these candidates in
14:34primaries where a
14:36electable Republican loss
14:38Republicans it took much longer to take back the Senate and you can look at that parallel here where the left flank is upset
14:46There are threatening primaries if that happens
14:49It'll be a long time before Democrats take control of the US Senate
14:54Irrespective of what happens in this economy
14:56I can look I think we're I'm shocked at that at the bubbling up outrage that you see in the grassroots
15:02I really am this is a watershed moment and I and I feel this way
15:06This is a worship moment not for now, but also I think 2028, right?
15:09I think I've not seen this sort of divide since
15:13vote on the Iraq war right and and it was the old-school establishment
15:18Versus the young and upcomers who said that was a wrong vote
15:21I think when you look forward, this is gonna be a moment where the the younger sort of
15:26grassroots and sort of energized core of the base of the party goes
15:30That is a defining moment. If you're on the wrong side of fighting and taking on Trump there
15:36It's a problem just like being on the wrong side of the Iraq war
15:39I think you encapsulate it by saying it is a watershed moment so much more to discuss
15:44please stick around guys when we come back the battles over a government shutdown and
15:49Procedural vote on federal spending can bring Washington to a standstill in
15:551995 President Bill Clinton and Republicans led by Speaker Newt Gingrich were deadlocked in a budget showdown
16:02Triggering what was then the longest government shutdown in u.s. History days before the first of two shutdowns over the
16:111996 federal budget speaker Gingrich joined meet the press
16:15How long are you prepared to leave the government shut down weeks
16:19Necessary, I would like to have the president sign a bill tomorrow and the government won't shut down at all
16:23So I'm not prepared to shut it down at all. We are doing our job
16:26We're sending a continuing resolution. All he's got to do is sign it and the government stays open
16:30So we don't want it to shut down at all last Sunday
16:33I asked senator Dole if the government shut down who'd get blamed and he said all of us Gingrich Dolan Clinton
16:39I agree with it
16:40I think I think it is a tragedy
16:42That we're in a situation where we can't find a way to talk this through and I think senator Dole and I have spent the
16:47Whole week doing what what he suggested and that is reaching out offering to meet offering to talk offering to negotiate
16:54And on every turn we've been turned down by the White House. I mean, it's truly compared to normal
16:59Patterns in Washington. It is sort of extraordinary. I think
17:04And in his first term
17:05But voters have soured on his handling of the economy one of his signature issues
17:1154% of voters disapprove of the president's handling of the economy the first time. Mr
17:16Trump has ever had majority disapproval on the issue in NBC News polling
17:21Just 18 percent of voters rate
17:23The economy is excellent or good the lowest mark in our polling in more than a decade
17:28The poll reflects in America that remains deeply divided the president's approval rating
17:3347% is as high as it's ever been but a majority
17:3851% disapprove of his performance on Wednesday
17:41The president argued his on again off again tariff policy is not rattling financial markets
17:47There's been a lot of on and off some inconsistency. There's no inconsistency. It's called flexibility
17:55It's not called inconsistency. It's called flexibility
17:58Meanwhile feelings toward the Democratic Party are at an historic low
18:0355% view the party negatively and there's a divide among Democrats on Friday nine Democrats led by minority leader
18:11Chuck Schumer and independent Angus King who caucuses with them voted with
18:16Republicans to advance a short-term spending bill to keep the government open
18:22As bad as the CR is I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a
18:29government shutdown is a far worse option a
18:34Shutdown would allow doge to shift into overdrive
18:38Now before the vote speaker emeritus Nancy Pelosi released a statement defying Schumer writing quote
18:45Democrats must not buy into this false choice. The party divisions were on display
18:52Today was a bad day for the country and I won't sugarcoat it today was also a bad day for the Democratic Party in
18:59this case
19:00CR stands for complete resignation. I think there is a deep sense of outrage and betrayal
19:08unacceptable unconscionable and
19:10Non-american spending bill is it time for new leadership in the Senate next question? What leverage do we have?
19:17Democrats keep showing up at every night fight with a casserole
19:23Joining me now to take us through our new poll numbers is NBC News national correspondent Steve Kornacki Steve a lot of
19:31Headlines in this poll. Yeah, Kristen and you get to it
19:33Let's just start with Trump himself that
19:3547% drop job approval rating two ways of looking at this
19:38First of all, if you compare Trump to every recent president this point after coming into office Trump's number here is the lowest
19:46Significantly the lowest of any of his modern predecessors except Donald Trump in his first term
19:51He was at 40% at this point in 2017
19:54So this for Trump is actually better at 47% then he's done what that reflects is
19:59It's not that he's built a lot of new popularity since the election, but that coalition that elected him
20:04You're not seeing that disappear from him at least yet
20:07And there's some things driving that first of all the mood of the country this really jumped out
20:11We asked folks is it on the right direction or the wrong direction that 44% you say right direction?
20:16That's up since November
20:18And if that doesn't seem like a lot the last time it cracked 40% you got to go back to 2012 the last time it
20:24actually hit 44 or higher January of
20:282004 so a lot of this is Republicans
20:31But independents that number is also up since the election on the direction of the country also just Trump and his base
20:37We monitor this among Republicans look at this basically three out of four Republicans say it's a very positive view
20:44They have Trump not just positive again at this point in his first term. It was only 50
20:48It's just the strengthening of that base the tightness they feel in terms of their connection with him and then there's the Trump agenda
20:54There are some popular elements of it here handling of border security in the immigration issue
21:0055% approval that goes beyond his base you see right there you hear about Doge there in the setup and
21:06Broadly speaking the people people do think this is a popular idea here a good idea
21:1146% bad idea 40 look at it this way when you ask folks
21:15What should Doge be doing going forward a third say much more 28% say Doge is needed just needs to slow the pace down
21:23But that's 61%
21:25Total who seem to say that Doge is basically a good thing a necessary thing right now where it gets complicated for Trump the man
21:32Who's leading Doge?
21:34negative 51% a majority negative rating for Elon Musk right here also
21:39Federal workers we just asked folks
21:41Do you have a positive negative view much more positive than negative in terms of federal workers?
21:46And then for Trump there is we say not slippage since the election
21:50But the warning signs and it's on broader areas of his leadership
21:53Look at this and all of these areas you see right here Kristen foreign policy the Russian Ukraine war
21:59Majority disapproval at this point for Trump and the economy is a red flag because that's the lowest
22:06Number we have seen on the economy in the history of our poll for President Trump. That's right in his first term
22:12This was the exception he had low numbers overall his first term
22:15But not on the economy
22:16But the economy and inflation this time look at those numbers and you look at the mood on the economy only
22:2218% of voters say it's excellent or good right now our pollsters looked at this right before the election that number was
22:2926% excellent good before the election so it has come down and then you ask folks a little differently here
22:35It's what is Trump doing on inflation his agenda his approach. Are you satisfied with what he's trying to do?
22:4343% say they're satisfied majority not satisfied. And this is the real warning sign for the administration right now
22:49Independence basically three out of four not satisfied with the effort that's being put into the question of inflation right now
22:56You look at things like this and you say if it's politically bad news for Trump
22:59It's probably good news for the Democrats
23:01They do lead our generic congressional ballot by a point
23:05But they're also facing a very unique challenge in our poll right here the view voters have of each party
23:11Neither is good. But look at the numbers here for Democrats
23:1527% positive more than double
23:1855% negative and we'll just put this on a graph for you in our poll here
23:23This goes back a long ways and you can see the trend line for both parties
23:26This is what's happened to the Democrats since the election. That is astonishing Steve. That's an historic low, right?
23:32That is in more than 30 years of this poll
23:35We've never seen either party hit a number this low in terms of negatives here
23:39One thing to note on this for the Democrats to a lot of that negative rating
23:42it's coming from Democrats themselves and a lot of that is coming from Democrats who say the party is being too
23:49Cooperative in their view with Donald Trump interesting a lot for both parties to chew on Steve Kornacki. Great to see you. Thanks so much
23:56Thanks, Kristen
23:58And joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Besson Secretary Besson. Welcome to meet the press Kristen. Good to see you
24:05It's wonderful to have you here. Thank you for being here in person
24:08let's start off by talking about the big picture on the economy a majority of Americans say they disapprove of President Trump's handling of
24:16the economy
24:18Consumer sentiment plunged this week to a 29 month low JP Morgan Goldman Sachs
24:25Slashed growth expectations. Why are all of those folks wrong and President Trump is right about his tariff policy
24:33And thanks for having me here and look what I am NOT going to say that went on for a long time under the Biden
24:40administration and for a lot of a lot of the media and I'm not going to point fingers but
24:45they used to say it was a vibe session and the American people don't know what they talk about and
24:50Donald Trump his administration myself all believe that the American people know what they're feeling and
24:57The we believe that our policies will change that clearly they are traumatized from what's happened with this
25:05Affordability crisis that was brought on the by the previous administration. They want relief
25:11We've been in for eight weeks. We are putting the policies in place that will make the affordability crisis go down
25:19inflation moderate and
25:21That the as we set the sails
25:23I am confident that the American people will come our way even if some of the media narrative doesn't well and just to be clear
25:30I mean, these are polls that are taken two months into President Trump's presidency
25:35But let's talk about what happened in the stock market this week worst week for the market in two years. Does that worry you?
25:42Mr. Secretary not at all. I've been in the investment business for 35 years and I can tell you that
25:49Corrections are healthy. They're normal. What's not healthy is straight up that you get these your fork markets
25:57That's how you get a financial crisis. It would have been much healthier if someone had put the brakes on in
26:030607 we wouldn't have had the problems in 08
26:07So I'm not worried about the markets over the long term if we put good tax policy in place
26:14deregulation and energy
26:17Security the markets will do great. I hear you say you're not worried about the markets
26:21But nearly 60% of Americans are invested in the markets. That's their retirement savings
26:27What do you say to Americans who have real concerns that their retirement savings may be in jeopardy?
26:33I
26:34Say that one week does not the market make as Warren Buffett says over the short term
26:41The market is a voting machine over the long term
26:44It's a weighing machine and again Kristen
26:47It would have been very easy for us to come in run these reckless policies that have been happy happening before
26:53We've got these large government deficits six point seven percent of GDP
26:58We've never seen this when we're not in wartime not recession. We are bringing those down in a responsible way
27:06We are going to have a transition and we are not going to have a crisis
27:11Let me play you what some business leaders all around the country have had to say in response to President Trump's tariffs
27:18Take a look
27:20It would be difficult for you as farmers to to try and get through some type of long-term trade war that affects our bottom line
27:27Building the average house is gonna cost more. I don't really
27:31understand the
27:32The goal or the end play here on what's all trying to occur
27:37Mr. Secretary you heard that business owner say he doesn't understand the end goal of these tariffs
27:43So help bring some clarity if you can are these tariffs a temporary?
27:49Negotiating tactic or are they a permanent policy here to stay good. So Chris, thanks
27:55Thanks for the question and I can tell you so April 2nd is going to be a big day
28:00We're gonna roll out the reciprocal tariffs
28:02But what I can tell you and I would encourage your viewers and the public and the media to follow
28:09Going into April 2nd and already now we've seen some of our most imbalanced trading partners
28:15Come forward and want to drop their tariffs. So
28:20By President Trump pushing forward with a tariff plan
28:24Reciprocal tariffs if you drop yours will drop ours
28:27We are already seeing some of the worst offenders come down April 2nd's an important day
28:33but I would also
28:34the tell everyone to look what happens from April 2nd to say June 30th as the other countries come down to and
28:42President Trump's created a win-win situation here
28:45Either the tariff barriers come down the u.s. Can export more trade is fairer
28:50It's always been free, but not fair and then
28:54We or if they don't do it, we'll take in substantial revenues
28:59I want to ask you about something that you actually said last week and we'll discuss it on the other side. Take a look
29:06Access to cheap goods is not the asset is not the essence of the American dream
29:12The American dream is rooted in the concept that any citizen can achieve prosperity
29:18upward mobility and economic security
29:21Mr. Secretary, are you there essentially saying that the Trump administration is comfortable to have consumers pay more for goods in America?
29:29Not at all Christian. What I was saying is the American dream is not let them eat flat screens
29:34that the if Americans if American families aren't able to afford a home aren't
29:40Don't believe that their children will do better than they are
29:43The American dream is not contingent on cheap baubles
29:47They are from China that it is more than that and we are focused on affordability, but it's it's mortgages. It's cars
29:54It's real wage. Do you acknowledge though that tariffs will ultimately drive up prices at least in the short term?
30:01That's what economists that's what business leaders. That's what CEOs say
30:03Well, they don't have to because I believe especially with the China tariffs that Chinese manufacturers
30:09They will eat the that will eat the price
30:13The or eat the tariffs
30:15I believe that the the currency adjust and I believe if we look
30:21There during President Trump's first term that the all the other things we do if we're deregulating
30:27We're getting energy prices down. Then if we look across the spectrum
30:33Americans will realize lower prices and better affordability as you know
30:38The administration has been pressed repeatedly on the prospects of a recession
30:42The messaging has been a little mixed. Let's look at some of what we've heard. I
30:47Hate to predict things like that. There is a period of transition. There's going to be no recession in America
30:54Well, look, I think you never can predict the future
30:58Mr. Secretary, can you guarantee the American people here?
31:01And now that there will be no recession on President Trump's watch Chris, you know that there are no guarantees
31:08Like who would have predicted kovat, right?
31:11so I can predict that we are putting in robust policies that will be durable and
31:18Could there be an adjustment because I tell you that this massive government spending that we're we'd had
31:24That if that had kept going we we have to wean our country off of that and on the other side
31:30We are going to invigorate the private sector
31:32I had a meeting with small bankers last week and they are ready to start lending and I can tell you
31:38That Main Street is going to do well
31:40What exactly do you mean when you say adjustment could that potentially lead to a recession?
31:46There's no reason that it has to but I can tell you that if we kept on this track
31:51What I could what I could guarantee is we would have had a financial crisis. I've studied it
31:57I've taught it and if we had kept up at these spending levels that
32:01Everything was unsustainable. So we are putting the
32:05We are resetting and we are putting things on a sustainable path
32:09Let me ask you about some of these cuts to the federal government. Obviously President Trump's been very clear
32:15He thinks that no agency should be spared a lot of focus on the IRS. How much of the workforce do you?
32:23Think will be cut from the IRS. Well
32:26Again, and I Kristen I used to when I was on the other side of the wall
32:31I didn't like the term fake news the now that I'm on the inside
32:34I got to say it might not be strong enough because some of the numbers that I've seen thrown out
32:39No, that's I didn't give you a number. I'm letting you tell me you tell me but
32:43The some very large print media has thrown out big numbers. That just doesn't exist. So what is the number?
32:49That's what I want to ask. Well, I will tell you that there were 15 about 15,000 probationary employees
32:56That we could have let go we kept about
32:597,500
33:018,500 because we viewed them as essential to the mission and you know
33:06we will know once we get inside, but what I can tell you is that we are doing a
33:13Big review. We're not doing anything. We're not doing anything right now is playoff season for us
33:19April 15th is game day and even employees who could take
33:24voluntary retirement
33:26The rest of the federal workforce that their date was in February our date for them is in May
33:32So I have three priorities for the IRS
33:36Collections privacy and customer service and we'll see what level is needed to prioritize all those. Okay
33:43Well, we'll stay on top of that review for sure
33:45I do want to ask you about the breaking news overnight the Trump administration launching large-scale military strikes against Yemen's
33:53Iranian-backed Houthis
33:55What exactly is the message that President Trump is trying to send to Iran?
34:00So it's it's a very strong message and very different than the previous administration
34:04So the Houthis the Iranians should expect that. This is the beginning. This is not a one-off and
34:11We are doing this because they are blocking freedom of passage for global shipping and
34:18Christian back to the economy back to inflation that closing the Suez Canal
34:24slows global commerce and
34:27Increases inflationary pressure for both us and our allies. So we are sending a message. This is unacceptable
34:34Two weeks ago. The president announced a maximum pressure strategy on Iran
34:39Their economy is in disarray the previous administration let their oil exports go up to about 1.5 million a day and
34:47Our target is to get it to zero. Okay, it's like so much for being here. We really appreciate it
34:53Let's talk about this extraordinary week on Capitol Hill
34:56You voted no on the government funding bill that could have led to a shutdown
35:02Ten Democrats led by leader Chuck Schumer voted to advance
35:06The spending package to keep the government open leader Schumer took to the floor to defend his decision
35:12I want to play a little bit get your reaction on the other side
35:15As bad as the CR is I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a
35:22government shutdown is a far worse option a
35:27Shutdown would allow Doge to shift into overdrive
35:32Senator is leader Schumer wrong. So let's pull back for a second. This is not a normal political moment
35:38This is not a normal political fight. What Donald Trump is doing right now is absolutely insidious
35:44He is every single day acting unconstitutionally
35:46He is trying to destroy the rule of law and for what?
35:49To essentially hand our government over to the billionaire class so that they can steal from us
35:54There is a level of corruption happening in this White House. That is absolutely
35:59unprecedented and so this to me is a moment where we need to be
36:04Restraining the president's power not giving him new authorities and for those of us that voted
36:11Against this budget bill part of our worry is that it does give the president new authority to move money around
36:17New authority to begin new programming cuts some essential services for the poor and the middle class
36:26And well, I totally understand my colleagues who didn't want to catapult us into a shutdown
36:32I actually think that the American people would have understood that Republicans have an obligation to negotiate with Democrats
36:38This is the first full year spending bill since I've been in Congress that was written only by the Republican Party
36:44So yes, it would have been a risk
36:46I understand the decision that many of my Democratic colleagues made
36:51But I think the American people want us to take risks right now in order to save our democracy senator
36:57I based on my conversations with some of your colleagues who?
37:01Voted to keep the government open. They say you just didn't have any leverage
37:05What leverage did Democrats have to extract concessions from Republicans in this moment?
37:11Well again, this is the first time that a full year spending bill has passed without it being agreed upon by both parties
37:19So certainly in the past the minority party has used its leverage in the Senate in order to get a seat at the table
37:26Again, I understand the danger of a shutdown right now
37:31But as we saw just
37:33hours after
37:35That bill passed the Senate. The president is continuing to act
37:39Unconstitutionally, he shut down some of our most important programs that protect us abroad
37:45Like Radio Free Asia and Radio Free Europe that were funded and authorized in that spending bill
37:51So by passing the spending bill, it doesn't seem that we have restrained any of the president's lawlessness
37:57You have spoken forcefully in the past actually against shutting down the government
38:03I want to play a little bit of that sound for you. Take a look
38:07This is just no time to be playing around with people's lives. We need to start acting like adults
38:12We need to start doing the job that we were sent here to do
38:16Because our nation's security is at stake. It's hard to explain the ramifications of a shutdown, but they're enormous
38:24Head-start programs won't open. Soldiers won't get paid for defending this country
38:31The consequences are absolutely devastating. And yet you say Americans would have understood this time. What changed senator?
38:39Listen, I don't think Americans would have understood but they would have understood why we got there
38:44If you are the majority party, you have an obligation to negotiate with the minority. Republicans refused to do that
38:51Again, never before has a spending bill been written by only one party and at this moment when the president is acting so
38:59Unconstitutionally, it just seems like the absolute wrong time to give him these new powers
39:04Listen, I understand that a no vote was a risk, right?
39:09But I think the American public right now want us to stand up Democrats to stand up and take some risks every single day
39:17The president is engaging in exceptional tactics in risk-tolerant behavior
39:23and I don't think you save the Republic and save our democracy by playing it straight and
39:29Maintaining norms when the president is shattering them every single day, you know speaker emeritus Nancy Pelosi broke with leader Schumer's strategy in an extraordinary
39:38moment House Democratic leader
39:40Hakeem Jeffries was asked if he has confidence in
39:44Leader Schumer and he said next question. He effectively dodged the question multiple times
39:49So let me put this question to you. Do you have confidence in leader Schumer's leadership?
39:55So leader Schumer has a very difficult job
39:58I don't envy the job that he has and the question is really for the members of his Democratic Caucus
40:05Are we?
40:07Willing to fight right I admit that it would take some risk tolerant behavior
40:14In order to effectively stand up to this president
40:17And and so the question really is for my party writ large. Are we willing to do the very difficult things?
40:26Necessary to meet this moment
40:28Do you think that leader Schumer is the best person to lead your caucus in this moment senator Schumer's?
40:32Certainly can lead this caucus. He's the best person he can lead this caucus
40:36but we need to have a conversation inside the caucus about whether we are willing to stand up to
40:43Republicans listen we have options we could decide to not proceed to
40:48Legislation as an ordinary course of business
40:50There are big fights ahead of us like the debt ceiling like a another potential government shutdown in six months
40:56So we have opportunities as a caucus to stand up and meet this moment
41:01And I think the American people are demanding that we do that just yes or no before we move on
41:05Do you have confidence in leader Schumer?
41:06I still support senator Schumer as leader
41:09but I think the only way that we are going to be effective as a caucus is if we change our tactics and we
41:16Have to have a conversation inside our caucus to make sure that we are going to do that
41:21So let's talk about that
41:22You posted a video explaining your vote what you called a very difficult moment
41:25Many of your supporters responded online saying you should replace leader Schumer
41:31Is that something that you would consider would you consider that role? I mean, I don't think anybody's having that conversation
41:37Right now what's important is that we meet this moment?
41:42And what I'm telling you is that if we continue to observe norms if we continue to engage in business as usual
41:51This democracy could be gone. I don't think we have a year to save American democracy
41:56I think the way the president is acting
42:00using law enforcement to target dissidents
42:03harassing TV stations or radio stations that criticize him
42:07Endorsing political violence puts our democracy at immediate risk
42:11So if you are a Democrat in the Senate or in the house
42:14You have to start acting with urgency and that is the conversation that we have to start having inside our caucus
42:21Our new NBC News poll as you just saw shows the Democratic Party at an all-time low
42:27Approval rating. Why do you think Democrats are failing to connect with Americans at this critical moment of urgency?
42:33Would you describe? Well, it's it's it's what I just talked about
42:36I mean, I think Americans want the Democratic Party to stand up and fight and to take risks
42:43Listen, I understand that had we gone into a shutdown even for a handful of days
42:48It would have been difficult
42:50But it would have sent a message that the Democratic Party is not going to be bullied by Donald Trump
42:56We are not going to let them write spending bills
42:59Unilaterally that cut programs for people we care about that give the president new and extraordinary power
43:06I think Democrats in this country, but I think the broad middle of the public as well
43:11Want to see our party fighting in
43:15Exceptional ways that is the conversation that has to happen inside of the Democratic Party inside our caucus
43:21And if we don't get that right if we continue to work with Republicans if we continue to hand Donald Trump more power
43:27We are going to lose our democracy. All right. Well senator Murphy. Thank you so much
43:33Please keep us posted on those conversations come back soon to update us. Thank you very much for being here
43:38We really appreciate it
43:40and when we come back
43:41how will President Trump respond to growing annuals MSNBC senior Washington correspondent and
43:48Incoming co-host of the weekend Anna Palmer CEO and founder of punchbowl
44:08You need to set all come back to the page I just I didn't miss it
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