Paul Trainer chats to Elaine C Smith about all things Glasgow
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00:00I'm Paul Traynor. I'm the editor of Glasgow World. I'm here with Elaine C. Smith, who's just been awarded the Freedom of the City.
00:07I thought I'd take the opportunity to get to know a bit more about Glasgow from your perspective, Elaine.
00:14Yeah, yeah. Well, everybody's got a different perspective of Glasgow, you know, but fire away, fire away.
00:19So if you're just going out for a day in the town, you're meeting pals, what's your kind of Glasgow routine, would you say?
00:27It's a different routine for me now from it was, because not that I think I'm Fleming Brad Pitt or anything like that and I'm so famous,
00:35but you are very aware of, you know, now where you would go. Not that people aren't lovely or whatever,
00:43but if you want to go out and just have a quiet time and a quiet drink, gone are the days of being able to have a drink and, you know,
00:53get steaming and fall out of the pub, because somebody now would be taking a selfie of that and sending it to the likes of you,
01:00saying, look at the state she was in. So it does make you more sort of private about the places that you go to.
01:07So you tend to have, my husband and I, you know, we'll go to the Everyman, we'll go to the cinema.
01:13We'll go up in Finiston, maybe go to the Crab Shack or up Myers Road up that way, although we live in the East End.
01:21It depends what we're going to do. If we're going to the theatre, it would be up in the Kings.
01:28Glasgow's got so many different pockets of places to go.
01:33Yeah, that kind of brings me on too, because I'm interested in neighbourhoods that either you really love or that you kind of associate with parts of your life and career.
01:43Oh, there's loads of places that I do. I mean, I live in the East End.
01:47So the East End is a real special place in my heart and coming in up to, I had my kids there and all of that.
01:54Denison, it's great seeing what's happened to Denison and I suppose some people don't like as much gentrification that's happened there.
02:03But it's great to see it thriving.
02:05It's quite gentle gentrification.
02:06Yes.
02:07You know, everyone's kind of still with it and there's a lot of families that are still there.
02:10Well, that's what I love about it.
02:11I love going, I go to Floristers, I always get my flowers in Floristers because I know the girls in there.
02:17I go in Coyas. Those are sort of stalwart places to go if I'm getting alterations done, I get them done.
02:25I go up that way. I think I like the fact that the East End and particularly Duke Street in that area has held on to who it is.
02:33Yeah.
02:34But there are other areas I love. I love going over to, I've got pals and friends on the south side and going over to cafes and shops and stuff like that.
02:44I have relatives over there in Pollock Shields.
02:46But I also, I like going to the West End. I like Denison.
02:51I like certain areas in the centre of the town as well.
02:55I think once you get to know Glasgow and you've been here for so long, you feel part of all those areas in many ways, or I certainly do.
03:06I was going to ask you about restaurants and bars, but it wouldn't necessarily be...
03:10What about restaurants and bars that you just think of that have got a real deep connection with your idea of Glasgow?
03:16It could be from any era. There could be places that you just thought, that's Glasgow hospitality for me.
03:22Well, there are great pubs. I'm not a particular pub person. My husband would be better on that in pubs.
03:30But certainly when I started out and I was at drama school and all of that, round the corner which is now, I think it's H&M or somewhere, but that was the Ivanhoe Hotel.
03:43Right, yeah.
03:44And that was right next to the Royal Academy and the Ivanhoe was where all the actors and all the musicians went.
03:51The Tron had that atmosphere in the bar and it's been a real shame over the last few years that that was a real centre for actors and various drunkards to go to.
04:05But there are fantastic pubs. I do love lots of ones in the East End.
04:13I probably would go in... My daughter worked in the Pally Bar in Denison for a while, so I would go in there at certain events.
04:21But there would come a certain point in the evening when I'd think, time to go home now, you know.
04:25There are great restaurants in the centre. I love going to the Ivy. The Ivy's a great one for my sisters or my pals.
04:33Just a lovely atmosphere in there. It feels very easy and safe.
04:38But if, you know, I've gone along, Glasgow Hospitality, the best I suppose would be, my sisters always call it the Watery Shoe, which is, oh God, what's the proper name of it?
04:53I've just forgotten it. The Waterloo, the Watery Shoe, which is a gay bar with karaoke.
04:59Christie McMurdo has fantastic karaoke in there. And they also have some of the cheapest cocktails you'll ever have in your life.
05:06They've got it all going on.
05:08They've got it all going on, so if people were here for a night, I'd say I would end up in that place.
05:15It's wild, but you'd get a very warm Glasgow welcome in there.
05:20What about your favourite Glasgow building? Is there anywhere that stands out?
05:24I've got lots of favourite buildings. I'm actually thinking about this today.
05:28When I first, because I'm so old, in 1975 when I started at drama school, walking through here to get to the Athenaeum as it was, all the buildings were black.
05:39It was before all the sandblasting happened, so Glasgow's a very dark city.
05:44But I never knew what this building was. And then people would say the City Chambers, and I'd be like, what happens there?
05:50A lot of people still ask that, but I've got no idea.
05:53But I would say there are loads of beautiful buildings.
05:58The Royal Infirmary and the Cathedral is quite stunning, just as a piece of architecture and building there.
06:06But I think in the town, it would be the Athenaeum.
06:11It's now a beautiful Thai restaurant.
06:15I walk through the doors and I'm immediately back to 1975-76.
06:20The places where, oh that's the toilet where I was greeting about some broken heart, or that's the blah blah, all that comes flooding back to me.
06:28And the upper floors being the canteen as well, where all of life went on in the canteen in there.
06:36So that's a special place.
06:38When you were there starting out, I talked to James McAvoy last week.
06:45He studied from the same, he got the same start, the same hopes and dreams.
06:53Did you imagine that you'd be able to create such a career when you were at that stage?
06:58Never. I never.
07:00From a working class background, I'm sure James, I've met James several times.
07:04I know Joy, his sister, very, very well. She's in Two Doors Down with me.
07:08We've had lots of chats about that.
07:11When you come from a working class background, the things you're allowed to dream about,
07:16and particularly for women, in that era were few and far between.
07:24And I went to the academy to become a teacher.
07:28So I did the teaching course. I wasn't brave enough to ever think I could be a proper actress.
07:33It wasn't until I got there that I realised that I had talent.
07:37And I had as much talent, more than, less than other people.
07:42But I just had no idea how you would be an actor.
07:46So I was a singer. I sang in clubs and sang in lots of pubs.
07:50The Maggie, the Amphora, all around Glasgow.
07:55And I did clubs before that as well.
07:59So I could see myself being a singer, but I couldn't see myself.
08:04And also people with working class accents didn't get to be.
08:07Your whole time at drama school, I was there a long time before James,
08:10but then it was all about received pronunciation.
08:13It was all about speaking like a proper actor. That was the way you spoke.
08:17And a trace of a working class Glasgow accent, forget it.
08:21So I was very, very fortunate in that when I became a teacher,
08:27around about 1979-80, things changed in this city.
08:34Even the citizens up until then didn't audition in Scotland.
08:37They only auditioned in London.
08:39So you could get a job at the Panto when you were doing three shows a day,
08:43but you couldn't get a job in the main company.
08:47That was all, very few Scots, well a couple, but very few get in there.
08:51I remember Dominic Hill, when he took over, he met me at something
08:56and he just assumed that I would have worked there.
08:59And I went, no, I've worked in the theatre,
09:01when I was in the steamy and various shows going in,
09:04but with Wildcat in 784, Borderline,
09:07but I never, ever was asked to be part of the company or audition,
09:12because you were from here, so what was that?
09:16But I was lucky in that Michael Boyd took over the Tron
09:20and that John McGrath, Dave Anderson, Dave MacLennan
09:25started Wildcat in 784.
09:28And when I saw them in the Citizen's Theatre,
09:30I remember thinking, I could do that.
09:32I was at drama school, that's what I want to do.
09:34I never dreamed I'd be on television,
09:36I never dreamed any of that would happen.
09:38Or my dream came true when I joined 784 and Wildcat.
09:43Because I played keyboards and I sung and I acted,
09:46that was the pinnacle for me.
09:49But it coincided with Colin Gilbert starting the comedy unit at BBC.
09:56And realising there was a lot of talent here.
10:00Around here.
10:01You were mostly working on the stage then,
10:03and then that kind of transferred onto television, right?
10:05Absolutely. He saw me in a Wildcat show
10:07and cast me in with Robbie Coltrane in Laugh,
10:11I nearly paid my licence fee.
10:13But then out of that came,
10:15and John Sessions was in that as well,
10:17Miriam Margoly, she was kick up the 80s just before,
10:20but I met her during that.
10:23And out of that came Naked Radio.
10:25And out of Naked Radio came Naked Video.
10:28Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
10:30One of my earliest memories of hearing someone
10:33with a local accent is sketches on Naked Video
10:37and it's City Lights and stuff like that.
10:39And now, at the King's I took my wee boy
10:42to see The Panther there,
10:44and he's going to have very early memories
10:46of Glasgow humour in the theatre.
10:50Is there anyone you can remember being inspired by?
10:54Very early memories of seeing someone up at stage
10:57speaking like you or being like you
10:59and thinking, yeah, that's how I can bridge that chasm
11:02and get going.
11:04No, not then.
11:06The women that were on television in Scotland
11:09were Mary Marquis, who read the report in Scotland,
11:12very quaffed and lovely with a lovely Kelvinside accent,
11:15or Moira Anderson at New Year,
11:17you know, lovely singer, all of that.
11:19But they were very conservative.
11:22But I do remember seeing Barbara Dixon on a show
11:26and I couldn't believe she was from Dunfermline
11:29and she was in the show John Paul, George, Ringo and Bert,
11:33the Willie Russell thing.
11:35And I was like, how did that happen?
11:38I've been really, really inspired.
11:40And fortunately I've worked with Barbara over the years
11:43and been able to tell her that.
11:45It blew my mind that this was possible.
11:49But it was men.
11:51It was men watching.
11:53I do remember seeing Una McLean in Scotch and Rye
11:57or with Stanley Baxter on television.
12:01But I didn't really go to the theatre.
12:03You know, the theatre for us, I lived at that point.
12:06I was brought up in Motherwell.
12:08That was a big thing and theatre was expensive to go to
12:11and there were cinemas near us
12:14and there was no real tradition of theatre.
12:16So my theatre was really in school when I did stuff.
12:21So getting to see people finally,
12:24to see Jack Moiroy and Ricky Fulton on stage,
12:27to see Jimmy Logan.
12:29But it was really through the medium of television
12:31that I saw them.
12:33But again, I was a woman, so very rarely.
12:35And then I remember doing the steamy,
12:40when we did the steamy.
12:42And I had taken the play.
12:44I was doing naked video with Tony Roper.
12:46He gave me the play to read
12:48and said, Smudger, as him and Greg are all.
12:50So I said, Smudger, read this.
12:52This is about women. Maybe I'll put it on.
12:54And it had been written and nobody would put it on.
12:56Because they thought, what's interesting about that?
12:59I'd like to say I immediately went,
13:01oh this is a hit.
13:02I didn't.
13:03Because your dread as an actor
13:05is when a palsy is going to read my play.
13:07You're like, oh no.
13:08What if it's terrible?
13:10So I took it home.
13:11I read it in my bed.
13:13A cup of tea.
13:15And I thought, oh this is good.
13:19I did think that the men's section,
13:21which became iconic, was a bit too long.
13:23And another bit, the phone call.
13:25I thought, I don't know how that'll work.
13:27But I did think with songs,
13:30to comment on it would make it less
13:34up a close or a kale yard.
13:36Because there was a real snobbery about
13:38making people and all that in theatre.
13:40I didn't really think it that way.
13:42I just thought that the songs,
13:43because I'd come out of Wildcat,
13:45and I took it to Wildcat,
13:47and Dave Anderson,
13:49and Davey Hicks wrote one of the songs as well.
13:51Dave Anderson, Davey Hicks,
13:52they wrote the song.
13:53Like Margaret's big song,
13:55Wonderful It'd Be a Woman,
13:57was a speech.
13:58But they turned it into a wonderful song.
14:01And being on stage with Dorothy Paul,
14:05Dorothy Paul watching her,
14:07and seeing what she could do with an audience,
14:10and seeing, hearing her story,
14:13which was a, you know,
14:14it's a hard story to tell,
14:16but not an easy journey for a woman
14:19in variety and theatre and television.
14:22Great stories as well.
14:24But her ability to hold an audience,
14:27to not be afraid of them,
14:29was just fantastic.
14:31I learnt loads from watching her.
14:35But then going,
14:37I remember going to see pantos with my kids,
14:40I was still never in them,
14:41because I was much more in the alternative comedy.
14:44So I loved doing the Tron,
14:46which was a bit more irreverent,
14:47and a bit more, you know,
14:48the funny fairy,
14:50and Alex Norton had written
14:52a brilliant Peter and Penny's panto
14:54that Michael Boyd directed,
14:55and all of that.
14:57So it was more about that,
14:59you sort of, not took the piss,
15:01but it was irreverent about the bigger pantos.
15:03I love the fact I'm at the other end now,
15:05and Johnny McNight at the Tron
15:07will relentlessly take the piss out of us as well,
15:11which is exactly how it should be.
15:13But seeing that and knowing what was possible
15:18and watching other people,
15:19I think it's the best thing any actor can do,
15:21is watch other people.
15:23But it was mainly through television I saw,
15:25and there were very, very rare occurrences by women.
15:29Yeah.
15:30You're in a situation now where,
15:32you've just talked about
15:33all these wonderful creative people
15:35that you've managed to work with,
15:36all the wonderful projects you've managed to do
15:38here in Glasgow.
15:41Do you hope that Glasgow's still a place
15:43that would attract people
15:44that wants to come here
15:45and do creative endeavours,
15:46that we can still come up with bands
15:48and come up with scripts
15:49and come up with all that stuff?
15:50Oh, absolutely.
15:51I hope so.
15:52There's an attitude in Glasgow,
15:54you know, that,
15:56it's not an easy city, Glasgow.
15:58It's a tough city as well.
16:00I remember going to New York the first time
16:02and feeling completely at home
16:03because that attitude of New Yorkers
16:06was just in your face, Glasgow.
16:08You don't get above yourself in Glasgow.
16:10If they like you, they like you
16:12and they celebrate you.
16:14But there will always be somebody going,
16:16I'm not that keen on her or whatever,
16:18which is an attitude I love
16:20because I've got a bit of that attitude as well.
16:22But I've been really fortunate
16:25to be around a sort of burgeoning time
16:28and a self-confidence
16:30because you used to have to leave
16:33to be successful.
16:35So hopefully it's now a city
16:37that people were,
16:38because of that legacy,
16:39because of the things that happened
16:41in the 80s and the 90s,
16:42completely changed the perception
16:44of Glasgow as a city.
16:45And a lot of that is to do with
16:47things that you were involved with,
16:48television shows that projected out.
16:50Oh, we were lucky.
16:52We were lucky that Colin Gilbert
16:54decided to set up the comedy unit in Glasgow
16:58and, you know,
16:59a sense of humour in Glasgow
17:00is a necessity, you know.
17:01It's a weapon as well as a necessity.
17:04And it seemed absolutely right to him
17:07to bring in Robbie Coltrane,
17:09John Sessions,
17:10all these people.
17:12I mean, he in effect
17:14helped make Robbie a star
17:16and then Gregor Fisher
17:17and Tony Roper, myself,
17:19Andy Gray, Johnny Watson,
17:21that team of people coming in.
17:23I was still in the minority as a woman
17:25but seeing Ford and Greg
17:28and Karen Abar,
17:30people like that,
17:31bringing them all through
17:32and seeing that there was talent here
17:34and there was creativity here
17:36and you didn't have to leave.
17:38And the great thing about Rab C
17:40and Two Doors Down
17:41and Naked Video,
17:42they were network programmes
17:44because there was an attitude
17:46that if you were doing something
17:47only in Scotland
17:48or only in Glasgow,
17:49it was parochial,
17:50it was kaleyard.
17:52Now, you had things like
17:54Dr Finlay's Casebook
17:55that were networked before that
17:56and huge, huge things
17:58and the White Heather Club
18:00but that was giving a particular type
18:02of picture of Scotland,
18:03quite conservative and safe
18:05whereas I was lucky to come along
18:07at a time where we were allowed to
18:09do stuff that was on the edge of it
18:12and was reaching
18:14but that we owned it.
18:16It wasn't companies coming up here
18:18with actors doing bad
18:21Scottish accents
18:24and saying,
18:25oh, this is a Scottish...
18:26and it wasn't.
18:28There is a cringe factor,
18:30I think, here,
18:32the cultural cringe
18:34where if Scots like it,
18:36then it can't be that good.
18:39And I've always thought,
18:40well, nobody in Norway says
18:41they don't like that in Sweden.
18:43Why would we go,
18:44if you're not a success in London?
18:46And even when you look at the people
18:47who have been given the freedom
18:49of the city,
18:50it's about people who've left
18:51and made something of themselves.
18:53And it's almost that we need
18:54other people to tell us they're funny.
18:57So I was lucky in that era
18:59that I was able to stay
19:00and do network programmes,
19:03do touring shows and all of that
19:07that went south and toured
19:09but they originated here
19:10and that creativity
19:12and those abilities were here
19:14and I could see it at the time
19:16with the bands I loved as well.
19:17It was a fantastic feeling
19:19and I sincerely hope
19:21that people still feel
19:23that this is a place
19:24they can come to and be creative
19:27and be part of something.
19:28When you're around in Glasgow, Elaine,
19:31what do you get recognised most for,
19:34do you think?
19:35I realised things had really changed
19:37when I did my stand-up show in Telly
19:40and I went from,
19:41oh, there's that woman
19:43that plays Mary Doll
19:44to there's Elaine C. Smith.
19:46Yeah, right.
19:47So I became more than that.
19:49I still get,
19:50as Elaine C. Smith,
19:51you'll hear somebody go,
19:52who's that?
19:53Her that played Mary Doll
19:54or her that's in Two Doors Down
19:56but because of Pantos,
19:59because of my own stand-up shows,
20:03because of, you know,
20:05I've just been Chitty Chitty Bang Bang last year
20:07or Annie or musicals
20:09or things like that,
20:10Calendar Girls, The Steamy,
20:12you look at all that,
20:13people, you become more
20:14than the part you were known for.
20:16It's one of the reasons that,
20:18I love soap opera
20:19but it's one of the reasons
20:20I sort of steered clear of it
20:22because it's easier now,
20:24I think,
20:25you've got people like Suranne Jones
20:26and people like that leaving
20:27and being able,
20:28but it used to be really difficult,
20:29you would get trapped in that
20:31and you were that character.
20:33You know, I'm happy to take Mary Nesbitt
20:35and Christine O'Neill with me around Glasgow,
20:38no bother.
20:39So it's a mixture of them all now,
20:42you know.
20:43Mayflies,
20:44you had a wonderful turn on Mayflies.
20:47Then, you know,
20:48even with Two Doors Down now,
20:50it still seems like
20:51it's quite an interesting time
20:52to be working in television.
20:54Oh, Mayflies,
20:55I mean,
20:56Andrew Hagen is a dear, dear pal
20:59but he's also
21:02one of the finest writers,
21:04you know,
21:05and I just love him.
21:08So when they approached me to do that
21:10because I love that book,
21:11I think I bought more copies.
21:12I think my fee actually paid
21:14for all the copies I've sent in
21:16but to just get that little part,
21:18you know,
21:19but it was a pivotal part as well.
21:21It was an important part
21:23in the journey
21:24of those characters
21:26and, you know,
21:28budget restraints and everything.
21:30There was more
21:31that could have been done with that
21:32but it was fantastic to do
21:36and I do think there are,
21:37when you look at the city,
21:38there are loads of things going on
21:40that I don't know about
21:41and I go,
21:42I never knew that.
21:43That's what I love about Glasgow.
21:44I love going places in Glasgow
21:46and going,
21:47I never knew this existed
21:48or a new place you discover
21:50or a new area
21:51or seeing what's happened.
21:53I never knew that happened.
21:55You know,
21:56I was involved in the sort of pilot
21:57we did for Waxfruit
21:59and that,
22:00again,
22:01I found out something about Glasgow
22:02I never knew.
22:03I never realised Glasgow stopped here.
22:05Yeah.
22:06And of course,
22:07it makes sense,
22:08you go,
22:09of course,
22:10that the Glasgow was the East End
22:12and that,
22:13well,
22:14they used to go to Partick
22:15for their holidays
22:16and stuff like that.
22:17All of that is quite fascinating
22:18and I don't think
22:20Glaswegians tell,
22:22but again,
22:23that might be to do with the media
22:26and the way it's portrayed
22:27or whatever
22:28but you look at New York
22:31and there are a plethora of stories.
22:34You don't only look at Goodfellas
22:36and think,
22:37that's New York
22:38because there's Woody Allen,
22:39there's musicals,
22:40there's all these stories
22:41about New York.
22:42The problem is,
22:43we're through a very narrow prism,
22:45maybe of one big programme a year.
22:49There hasn't really been
22:50a really big drama
22:51about this city
22:52for a long time
22:53and therefore,
22:55people think,
22:56oh,
22:57that's what it is
22:58because you're not being able
22:59to tell all the stories
23:00and there are huge stories here.
23:03So,
23:04I think there are many stories
23:05still to tell
23:06and enough talent here to do it
23:08but it comes down to money
23:09and commissioning
23:10and who commissions
23:11and class
23:12and loads of other things
23:15about what stories
23:16get to be told.
23:18Okay,
23:19well,
23:20enjoy the freedom
23:21of Glasgow,
23:22Elaine.
23:23I can bear arms now.
23:24I can bear arms
23:25and I was laughing,
23:26saying,
23:27I come from the East End,
23:28I've been bearing arms
23:29in the East End.
23:30That's where I live.
23:31Not always legally.
23:32Well,
23:33on that note,
23:34thank you very much.
23:35Pleasure,
23:36pleasure.
23:37Thank you, darling.