Getting the Kids Outside  | 'Round the Fire S1E10 | EarthX - video Dailymotion

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EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/   Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. 'Round the Fire was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.   How can hunting & fishing compete with smart phones, video games and other indoor pursuits in 2020?   About 'Round the Fire:  Hunters and anglers sit around the (virtual) campfire to discuss conservation and environmental issues from the unique perspective of outdoorsmen. Sportsmen and women can be important allies in America's ongoing efforts to protect its landscapes.   EarthX & EarthXtra  Love Our Planet.  The Official Network of Earth Day.    About Us:  At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.     EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.       EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/    Follow Us:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/earthxmedia/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/earthxmedia  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EarthXMedia/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@earthxmedia  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EarthXMedia  Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/earthxmedia    How to watch:    EarthX - Cable:  - Spectrum  - AT&T U-verse (1267)  - DIRECTV (267)  - Philo  - FuboTV   EarthXtra - Streaming:  - Plex  - Fire TV  - Xumo    #EarthDay #Environment #Sustainability #EcoFriendly #Conservation #EarthX

Transcript

00:00Hi, I'm Todd Tanner and I'm round the fire today with Tom Rosenbauer and Hilary Hutchinson,

00:21two incredible anglers and serious conservationists who share my passion for getting kids outdoors.

00:28Hilary, I wanted to start with you. How do you get kids to engage out in the natural world?

00:35For me personally, most of the things that I can tell people I've learned the hard way,

00:39for sure. Made a ton of mistakes. My children are almost grown. I've got an 18-year-old and

00:46an almost 16-year-old, or almost 17-year-old, she's 16 now. And so it's been a lifetime of

00:53having them be in fly fishing, kind of be on the water. And a lot of things have gone great,

00:59and a lot of things have gone not so great. So I always like to tell people the first thing

01:06that I like to think about when I think about getting kids into fly fishing and into the

01:11outdoors is, why do you want them to be out there? Because if you're thinking, I really want the kids

01:18to go fly fishing because I want them to catch a fish, then it's already kind of off on the wrong

01:25foot in my opinion. And that's just because if you think about your own fishing and you think

01:28about why you like to fish, you never really say, oh, I really love to fly fish because this one

01:34time when I was eight, I caught this huge fish. You're not going to remember that. You're not

01:39going to think about that one time that you went, the first time you went and you caught a fish.

01:43First, it doesn't really always happen like that. Secondly, there's so many other things to remember.

01:48And when you think about your own fly fishing, you usually think, well, I really love the fun

01:53and camaraderie. I love being with my family and friends. I love the connection to nature.

01:57I love the connection to wildlife. I like the feel of the water. I like hearing birds. I like

02:03going out on a crazy adventure. I like being able to tell the stories, so many other things and

02:09saying, well, this one time I caught this big fish. It might come up in story and it's in your memory,

02:14but it's not even primary, secondary, or even tertiary. Most of the time it comes up later

02:19after all these other things. So if you're thinking about getting your own kids into fly

02:23fishing and the first thing you think is I want them to catch a fish, then you've already jumped

02:28over all of that cool stuff and might be setting everybody up for disappointment.

02:34Fishing is not the only way that people engage with the natural world, right? And sometimes kids

02:39are really into that. Sometimes they're not quite so much. How do you get kids to get interested in

02:45spending time out in nature? With fishing, you know, and I wrote a book called Family Friendly

02:51Fly Fishing, which was a terrible seller. It's probably the worst selling books I've ever

02:58done, but I did a lot of research and I learned a lot of things interviewing people for that book.

03:04And one of the things that really struck me was that there's a real dividing line

03:11at about, you know, about puberty, about 12 years old. Prior to 12 years old,

03:19they want action and they want to do stuff and you want it to be simple. And if it's, if

03:26they're not interested in fishing and the fish aren't biting, then you let them chase frogs or

03:32turn over rocks and look for bugs. But you know, you got to have something going on.

03:38You got to have something going on and it's got to be pretty straightforward and simple.

03:43When you get around 12 years old and when they get into being teenagers, I've discovered

03:51that the complexity of fly fishing is actually the appealing part. So they're, you know,

03:58you're appealing more to their sense of exploration and their intellectual stimulation,

04:04but you know, we all know there's a lot of young people and teenagers getting into fly fishing

04:11these days and they really get into the geeky parts of it, you know, and I think they enjoy

04:18that complexity. So, you know, I think you have to, you have to kind of decide where a child falls

04:24on the spectrum in order to know how to approach the whole thing. I mean, obviously with anybody,

04:30you got to start it out fairly simply, but you know, you want to quickly move on to the more

04:36complex stuff with older kids. You know, you're right. Not every kid is going to be interested

04:44in fishing or specifically fly fishing. They're, they're just not. And it's like, it's almost,

04:51it's almost like it's genetic. Some kids turn onto it and some kids could care less.

04:59My 16-year-old does not care for fishing at all. However, my 16-year-old loves

05:11botany and edible plants and mushrooms and nature and, you know, we do foraging hikes

05:20nearly every day in my household. And so that's what turned my 16-year-old onto the outdoors.

05:27You have to, you have to kind of gauge your kid and figure out, you know, just kind of watch,

05:33observe your kids and listen to your kids. You can't, you can't force these things to kids.

05:40You know, we all, we all know that that's the worst way to, to introduce a kid to something

05:46is to try to force it down their throats. I've had that same experience with my son. If I try

05:51and push too hard, he pushes back. But if I just am pretty mellow and say, hey, do you want to go

05:57fish today? You know, there's a pretty good chance he's going to say, yeah, dad, I'd love to be out

06:03there. And he's one of those kids. He's sort of like your son in that he loves to fish in spurts

06:10and the rest of the time, he's just happy to be out in the natural world. Hillary, I've had the

06:15pleasure of fishing with you and your daughters. And the thing that always strikes me is like this,

06:22this thing is how different every child is, how different every kid is. And you have a daughter

06:27who loves to fish and you have a daughter who loves to be on the sticks, who loves to row the

06:32boat. And that's actually a great balance. How did that, how did things work out like that? Do you

06:38have any idea? My joy in fly fishing is more of the adventure of having, you know, the expecting

06:45the unexpected, being out with friends and kind of a little bit more of a high energy experience

06:51on the water. And so I realized, well, if that's what I like and it's different from what I knew

06:57other people in my life like, then certainly my children who are wildly different and independent

07:03are going to have a different experience too. So it's just started with making sure that we're

07:09kind of out there together. And that is where we have had our knockdown drag outs. Like that is

07:14where like we have caused all kinds of problems and solved all kinds of problems. All the major

07:20emotions have come out on the river and Ella, the oldest she can get it out on the sticks. Like she

07:27rows is strong. She feels the river. She flows with the river. That is where she's growing up.

07:34That's where her emotion is. And Delaney she has gotten to the point, like Tom was saying,

07:40where you get a little more technical and now she can put together how and why she's catching fish

07:46and what she needs to do differently. And that's where she learned to swear like a sailor. I mean,

07:51she has the worst mouth and I didn't even know she could swear. Like I was worried about her.

07:58Isn't even going to say a bad word in her life. And suddenly when she started on her own,

08:03tying a bad knot or choosing a wrong fly or just missing a fish or popping one off something,

08:09that's where that kid learned how to get it all out. And she became a swear word dictionary.

08:16And you find all these things out about your kids. I mean, it is a place of discovery granted,

08:21you know, and I hear Tom talk about foraging and his son, if my kids walked in the door and said

08:25they were getting into edibles and mushrooms, I'd be a little concerned. And so you have to be

08:33open to seeing what they want to do out there. And I just know that when Ella decided she wanted

08:39to row and she didn't want to cast, she didn't want to fish. If I had been like, no, no, no,

08:45I'm going to put you on fish because I had the ego of wanting to put my kid on fish and get the

08:49picture and get the kid to catch the fish. She might not want to be out there at all. But the

08:54fact that she found her place in the middle seat makes me feel really good because it, well,

09:01gives me bow time for one. But two, it lets us all just be out there together and experience it in

09:07our own way and have our place. And it gives her a unique way to share it with her friends. It

09:13doesn't just mean that they're all going to fish one way together. This is what she gets to bring

09:17to the table when she's introducing her friends to the river or just hanging out with them out

09:22there. So I think that watching, listening, recognizing your kid's uniqueness is something

09:29parents do all the time in sports, in school, in your everyday family life. And it shouldn't be

09:36any different out on the water. Just see how they interact with nature, with the water, with each

09:42other and see where their strengths are and where they have the most fun. We've all had great good

09:47fortune to grow up in the outdoors and to spend time outdoors and fishing and other stuff.

09:55And I'm not sure that future generations are going to have it quite as good or quite as easy

10:02as we've had it. And one of the things that probably is pretty helpful is for sportsmen

10:09and sportswomen to look at the impediments to getting kids involved in the natural world,

10:16whether that's out on the water or doing something else. What do you think are the

10:23single biggest impediments that we sort of have to overcome that we have to move past to get

10:29kids and young adults engaged in the outdoors at a time when so many people are on their phones or

10:36on electronics or doing other stuff? The kids have to be comfortable being outside on their own. And

10:44that's a little more difficult than it was in other times. But on the other hand,

10:52I don't buy this whole thing about kids need mentors and they're not going to be hunters or

11:04fishermen or anglers because they don't have mentors, because they do have great mentors.

11:10They have they have the screen. And as much as we hate the screens, they can learn so much quicker

11:18and so much more than we did when we were kids. Kids have the whole wide world in front of them

11:25to learn this stuff. I mean, how much easier is it to learn how to cast or to tie a fly these days

11:31with video? And I believe and they're sharing. Yeah, they're sharing and they're comparing

11:37and they're they're finding, you know, they're finding fishing buddies on social media.

11:44I don't think there are as many impediments as us old timers whine about. And you can see it. I

11:51mean, the proof is in the pudding. You know, there are so many more kids involved in fly fishing

11:58these days from, you know, preteens to teenagers to college age students. I mean, they're they're

12:06really into it. And it's become cool. Yeah, no, it is super cool. And I think that

12:14because they have so many other options for learning how to fly fish, one of the impediments

12:20could be in finding a diverse group of kids that reflect all kinds of communities. And I think that

12:29that's how kids want to grow up. They want to grow up in an environment with all kinds of

12:34different kids. That's what they see online. That's where they're meeting, you know, in all

12:38of their social media accounts or kids from inner cities, kids who don't necessarily look like them.

12:43They thrive and find the importance of having a very diverse community in music and all kinds

12:50of different culture. One of the impediments can be if we don't make sure that that's their

12:55environment also in fly fishing and in the outdoors, which means providing a safe place for

13:00all kinds of kids from different backgrounds, different abilities, all kinds of kids of color

13:05and and in all over the country, not just in the West and fly fishing or by a pretty trout stream,

13:12like you said. But I think one thing that can hold kids back is if is if we're not paying

13:18attention to the fact that in their life they want to have a diverse community. And if we're

13:23not providing that and in fly fishing by being exclusive, then we're cutting the kids short.

13:30And eventually they're just not going to want to be out there with us. So so Hillary, that's a great

13:35point, is one way around that to allow allow kids to bring their phones along on the river.

13:43Is that something that that makes sense from time to time? Yeah, I think that I think the reason

13:49that I've kind of allowed my kids to bring their phones is that so they feel comfortable. I mean,

13:56we already live by a river. We've already kind of shown them how to physically feel comfortable

14:01out there. A lot of people look like them, so they feel comfortable. And so having a phone

14:08out there lets them be able to take pictures, listen to music, whatever. You know, I'll cheat

14:12a little by making sure that we go fishing somewhere out of service so that they're not

14:16constantly heads down. Taking them completely out of their element isn't necessarily the

14:22the smartest thing to do. What I what I'm talking about is the broader picture of

14:28fly fishing and making sure that all kids feel comfortable out there. You know, not just,

14:34you know, because we fish and we feel comfortable, our kids will feel comfortable. But understanding

14:38that, you know, if it takes a village to raise a kid in fly fishing, then we as the adults have

14:44to pay first appointment to getting all these kids feeling comfortable out there. That means safe,

14:50feeling like there are other kids out there who look like them, who have the same kinds of

14:54backgrounds and stories and experiences, and making sure that we're helping facilitate that and

14:59make it a welcoming, comfortable place for all kinds of kids with different backgrounds. So I do

15:05think the phones are part of that, where you're not just saying absolutely not. You can't be who

15:09you are in your other life when you go fly fishing. The idea is that they continue to be who they are.

15:14And that also includes like letting them wear what they want, what they want to wear. If it's safe,

15:21you know, if they if it's not safe to wear just head to toe cotton and big hoodies or whatever,

15:26like my kids like to wear out there, then I'll make sure that I'm putting them in clothing that's

15:31safe and going to keep them dry and warm. But I don't tell them to look like what we think a

15:37fisherman should look like. I want them to be comfortable with what they're wearing, be

15:41comfortable with how their hair is, their personal expression. They don't need to have all the perfect

15:47lingo. I want them to continue to be comfortable with themselves and then also go out on the river.

15:54So Tom, when you go out fishing, do you ever bring your son along to forage? Or is he ever out

15:59hanging out on the bank, turning over rocks, pulling apart logs, climbing up trees, that kind of stuff?

16:05No, sometimes. Sometimes there's a there's a headwaters of a brook trout stream that

16:14Brett likes to forage along. And I will go and start fishing up the brook. And I'll tell Brett,

16:25Brett might have a friend along. And I'll say, okay, now, you guys, I'll meet you back here

16:31in two hours and they'll go off and forage and I'll fish. And I'll say, you know, if you come

16:38down to the stream, don't get ahead of me. Don't spook the fish. But other than that, you can go

16:43wherever you want. So we do that. But you know, it's really become fishing is my thing to do

16:52with my friends. It's kind of my social life if I do. But it's also something I do a lot alone.

17:00And I just make sure that I balance that with outdoor time with my, my family and the dogs,

17:08make sure that you know, we take a few hikes a week. And then I will sometimes I will sometimes

17:14go off to recharge on my own so it it doesn't interfere. And I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want

17:24to subject Brett to say, going to a river where I'm fishing a hatch where I'm standing in one

17:32place for three hours, you know, working on one fish that wouldn't be fair.

17:38No, that makes that makes sense. I was Tom, as you were talking about that, I was thinking that

17:43my son Keon, who's 15. When he was little, when he was like, six or seven or eight.

17:49I used to take him out outdoors and sit him down, we play hide and seek. And I'd go camo myself into

17:58the landscape someplace. And he'd have he'd know he needed to wait for a couple of minutes. And then

18:03he'd try, try and find me. And he got really engaged. He loved the idea of I'm looking for

18:08my dad. And he's hard to see, because he's a hunter, he knows how to blend into the woods.

18:14And, and we hadn't done that. And we haven't done that in years and years. But just the other day,

18:19he said to me, Dad, you remember when we used to play hide and seek outside, and you'd go

18:24sneak yourself in, you know, lay down next to a log and cover yourself up with leaves and branches

18:29and make yourself almost invisible. And then I had to find you. He said, I love that I had so

18:34much fun with that. And it's like, it's, it's sort of crazy. Because now when I think of being

18:39outdoors with him, I think, oh, man, we should go jump in the drift boat. Maybe he can spend a

18:43little time on the sticks, maybe get some fishing in. But it's funny how he still thinks back to,

18:49you know, seven, eight years ago, when it was as simple as just going out the front door and

18:55in play and hide and seek. Hillary, I hate to dump this on you. But one of the things that

19:04I do want to talk about today is some of the threats to the special places outdoors are

19:12our streams, our rivers. You know, these, for folks who don't know, Hillary and I are both

19:18in Montana, Thompson, Vermont, we're all fortunate to have these really incredible places close by

19:24where we can get outside and just immerse ourselves in nature. But there are threats.

19:30And I know you've spent a lot of time working on one particular one, which is climate change.

19:37Is there anything you want to share that you've been thinking about that recently? Any,

19:40anything that folks need to know, as they're looking forward, especially in light of what

19:45future generations are going to have to deal with? Right? Well, I mean, it's heavy, right? Of course,

19:51we know that it's super heavy. But one of the things that made it almost overwhelmingly heavy

19:56to me to the point that I couldn't take any action or be effective was thinking about all of

20:01the little tiny ways, things that we're doing to the environment that are hurtful, or maybe too

20:08impactful. And I realized that I couldn't continue to do that just thinking about each one of them

20:15individually. And that's why I started focusing specifically on climate became a climate activist,

20:20because I see it as the the umbrella, the big thing that's like, if we don't address that

20:25first and most, then none of those other little things can be solved. And so that helped me

20:32psychologically, because I used to think, Oh, my gosh, I have to do something about habitat,

20:37I have to do something about our specific ecology in this area, I have to do something about our

20:44intact ecosystem, hybridization of rainbows. And I've, you know, you're thinking about all of these

20:48little elements of the environment when you're an angler, and you're out there. And, and that

20:54became overwhelming to me, and especially because there are so many different, awesome efforts, so

21:00many different nonprofits that are helping you to look at that, whether it's from trying to move the

21:05water south in the Everglades, or working on stopping a mine in Alaska, all these different

21:09things to think about, and it can be stressful, right. And so I think, for me, personally,

21:16focusing on climate was a way for me to put all of that energy and sometimes angst into what I saw

21:24as a big picture issue and finding solutions. And then it was more of a way of thinking of it for me,

21:31because then I realized once I started focusing on climate, then I was actually still focusing on all

21:37those other things, because they really are connected, because they really are impactful

21:42each other. So when I was just got into my mind, I'm working on one thing, instead of all these

21:47little things, I realized, no, I actually am focusing on the Everglades, I am focusing on

21:53the pebble mine in Alaska, I am focusing on my own intact ecosystem here in Glacier National Park.

21:58And so that just kind of psychologically helped me by looking at the big picture to focus on those

22:04other things without just like ritzing out on all of the little tiny efforts that that felt like

22:10needed to be done right now, because we cannot do it all. We just can't just every single day,

22:17you know, pick ourselves apart and punish ourselves. But we can do something like we can

22:22really look at big pictures and then begin to whittle them down into how our own actions can help.

22:29And so for me, working on climate, I found my action, which was, you know, trying to talk to

22:35our elected leadership. So going to Washington, DC, going to, you know, my state capital, and then

22:41also in my own municipality, to to work on systemic change. And that's helped me kind of whittle it

22:48down into some of those little, littler pieces that aren't quite such big bites, even though

22:53this is one big bite.

22:57So, Tom, a few years ago, I dragged you all the way up to Northern British Columbia to participate

23:06in a film up there. And we were trying to catch steelhead. We were also talking about

23:11trying to, yes, climate change, you know,

23:14When you caught that one and you were like, steelhead, you yelled that like 12 times.

23:22It was, I was standing next, well, pretty close to Tom when he when he hooked that fish.

23:27And he literally, he yelled so loud, I thought he was going to jump out of his waders. It was

23:33I wish that was my phone ring. I'm going to make that my, my phone ring from now on.

23:42It was crazy. So we went all the way up to almost to Alaska to fish for steelhead and to

23:50make a film about climate change. And I'm sort of curious how your thoughts have evolved in the in

23:59the four or five years since we did that. Coming back down, spending time in Vermont, and then all

24:04the all the places that you typically visit, whether that's the Caribbean or the or the Keys

24:11or coming out here to the Rockies or wherever it might be. How have your thoughts evolved on

24:15climate over the last five years? What are you seeing now that you didn't see before? And do

24:20you have solutions that that make sense I'm hearing?

24:23No, I don't have any solutions, Todd. It's been a roller coaster for me. I see, I see things

24:30changing in my lifetime, dramatically, which is a real downer. But I also see that this is becoming

24:42really mainstream. And, you know, with the right with the right people in charge of moving

24:52moving policy in one direction or another, we could actually make some progress. But honestly,

24:59I'm kind of the opposite of Hillary. Climate change makes my head explode. And I can't grasp

25:07it. And it's so big that I can't. So I come at it from the other way, that I'll focus on

25:17Pebble Mine, and I'll focus on the Everglades. And I've been very deeply involved in both of

25:22those things, because I know I can do something there. I know I can make a difference there. I'm

25:27not so sure that I can make a difference in climate change other than to vote for the right

25:33people that are that are going to make a difference. Now, on the other hand, Brett,

25:38Brett has a mind that can absorb all these complexities. And Brett is is totally into

25:45climate change. And Brett, and Brett is coming up with all these ideas on how to reduce our carbon

25:51footprint. I mean, like, complicated, complicated energy sources, and all kinds of crazy things,

25:58which is, which is really cool. And I've learned a lot from Brett. But Brett has, has a mind that,

26:06that can absorb the complexities, and put them all together. I can't, it's just, it's too much.

26:12So the way my puny mind works is I have to go and look at, I have to go and look at smaller pieces

26:21of the thing, because I, like Hillary says, we can't do it all. And, and it just overwhelms me.

26:28So just being honest, that's the way I look at it.

26:31Yeah, it's a, it's a huge issue. And it's one of those things, it's, it's hard to get our heads

26:35around and, and even harder to come up with a plan of attack. I mean, we can all feel

26:41powerless at times, we can feel like we can't make a difference.

26:45Well, one of the cool things, though, too, is that I always joke that I have no original ideas,

26:52I steal all of my, you know, best fishing ideas from some other angler, mostly out of Tom's books

26:58over all the years. But I think that the same is true for me, with a lot of climate solutions. So

27:05when you look out into fly fishing, and you do see people with solutions and with ideas,

27:11maybe just because I love story, I instantly am listening to them and listening to how they got

27:17to that, where they're taking it, and then how we can be a part of that. And, and I'm a much

27:22better soldier than a general for sure. And so when I see people who are leaders and leading the

27:27charge, I'm first to say, sign me up, teach me and, and I'll be right there with you.

27:33We're just very, very fortunate that we have both of you spending time with with youngsters,

27:40spending time with adults out there talking about conservation, about the environment,

27:44and sharing your passion for spending time on the water and fishing. And it's been a huge pleasure

27:54and an honor to have both of you on Round the Fire today. I can't thank you enough.

28:00Tom and Hilary, I'll look forward to seeing you both in person next summer, hopefully.

28:05And until then, we're going to wrap it up. Thank you for joining us.

28:11Another tattoo? Is that what that was?

28:13Thank you. No, no, it was a needle.

28:19I'm not afraid of needles.

28:22All right. Thanks, folks. Have a great day.

28:24Thank you, Todd. Thank you for allowing us to to talk about things we love.

28:39We are sportsmen, and we are in trouble.

28:44We've learned what happens when we underestimate a serious threat.

28:49We can't make that same mistake with climate change.

28:54We need to stand up for America and for our kids and grandkids. Make your voice count in 2020.

Getting the Kids Outside | 'Round the Fire S1E10 | EarthX

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