EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/
Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. 'Round the Fire was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.
When it comes to the outdoor media and journalism, who can you believe? Dig a little deeper and you'll find out who is on the level.
About 'Round the Fire:
Hunters and anglers sit around the (virtual) campfire to discuss conservation and environmental issues from the unique perspective of outdoorsmen. Sportsmen and women can be important allies in America's ongoing efforts to protect its landscapes.
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At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.
EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
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Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. 'Round the Fire was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.
When it comes to the outdoor media and journalism, who can you believe? Dig a little deeper and you'll find out who is on the level.
About 'Round the Fire:
Hunters and anglers sit around the (virtual) campfire to discuss conservation and environmental issues from the unique perspective of outdoorsmen. Sportsmen and women can be important allies in America's ongoing efforts to protect its landscapes.
EarthX & EarthXtra
Love Our Planet.
The Official Network of Earth Day.
About Us:
At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.
EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/
Follow Us:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/earthxmedia/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/earthxmedia
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EarthXMedia/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@earthxmedia
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EarthXMedia
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/earthxmedia
How to watch:
EarthX - Cable:
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- DIRECTV (267)
- Philo
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#EarthDay #Environment #Sustainability #EcoFriendly #Conservation #EarthX
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Hi, I'm Johnny Carroll Sane, and welcome to Round the Fire on EarthX.
00:20Today, my guests are Chad Schmuckler, Managing Editor of Hatch Fly Fishing Magazine.
00:25Hi, Chad.
00:26Thanks for sitting down with us.
00:28Thanks for having me.
00:30And my second guest is Andrew McKean.
00:33He's the Hang Editor for Outdoor Life, and I'm really kind of surprised that he was able
00:37to find time in the middle of October to sit down and visit.
00:41Me too.
00:42This is very provisional.
00:43I could go at any minute.
00:44I understand.
00:45I wanted to get this out of the way too, because the pre-rut is about to get good here, and
00:51so I want to get this out of the way, because the next two or three weeks, I'm going to
00:55be, hopefully, sitting in a tree.
00:58Today, what we're going to talk about is the responsibility of outdoor media.
01:05And where I'm coming from with this is, do traditional hook and bullet publications cover
01:10environmental and public land issues with the depth and earnestness that they should?
01:16What are the responsibilities of the outdoor media in regards to environmental and public
01:20land issues, especially since this pairing is the bedrock of hunting heritage, of our
01:25current hunting culture, and for the future of hunting and angling?
01:29And the angling is part of that too.
01:30I know I just mentioned hunting.
01:31Hunting and angling going forward.
01:33Well, you know, I've been thinking about that question for a couple of weeks since you broached
01:38it, and I would actually say no.
01:43There's so many ways to go, but I'm going to say no.
01:46Outdoor journalism is not living up to the promise of comprehensively covering the outdoors
01:51and environmental issues, especially very controversial outdoor issues, for its audience.
01:59I want to come back to a couple of things, though, and I would say, I don't know that
02:03it was ever actually intended that way.
02:06You know, I look back, so outdoor life has been in publication since 1898.
02:13Interestingly, we talk about this a little bit.
02:15We just got sold last week to an equity partnership.
02:20So there's a little bit of question going forward what that looks like.
02:23But I would say in that 122 year run, you know, there have been some great advocacy
02:32pieces done, and I would say that we still do great advocacy pieces.
02:36But advocacy is not journalism, and I think we need to make a bright line between those
02:41two things.
02:43So I would say in terms of journalistic tenets of objectivity and deeply reporting on issues,
02:48no, I don't think we do a good job.
02:49And I say that as a newspaper man who has sort of shouldered my way into the outdoor
02:52world.
02:53We can continue that later, but that's sort of my opening statement.
02:57Okay.
02:58Chad, what are your thoughts?
02:59No, generally we don't, although we may not see eye to eye completely on how they don't
03:03do a good job.
03:04You know, Andrew mentioned that, you know, at least I think what you were getting at,
03:08was that in your view, the main job there is to address these issues in depth, to provide
03:13readers with a real detailed view, to allow them to fully understand these topics.
03:18And I think that's part of it.
03:19I think that's at least maybe, let's say, half the picture.
03:24But I think where Andrew and I would differ maybe is that I do think it's equally the
03:32responsibility when presenting those cases to build, you know, advocacy and teach people
03:40how to get involved in these issues and to some degree teach stewardship in the context
03:49of these issues.
03:51I don't think we're that far apart.
03:52In fact, I think we actually do a good job of being advocates for not only appropriate
03:59use and responsible use of resources, but also for getting engaged in a political process
04:03that then influences the public policy around those issues.
04:06So I think we're saying the same thing there.
04:12Where I have a big bone in my throat when it comes to kind of my peer group, and this
04:16is, so I came up into this world as a weekly newspaper reporter and then a daily newspaper
04:23editor and then moved into magazines.
04:25And I would say in general, unless it's a magazine that is sort of topically focused
04:31on current issues and on and having the resources to deeply report issues, that's a whole other
04:36thing I'd like to talk about is in terms of the resources to do this, it's not easy.
04:42But magazines in general, especially sort of enthusiast magazines across the spectrum
04:47don't do a very good job of deeply reporting issues.
04:49And in some ways, I don't think it's their job.
04:53Where I have weighed into the world, so I kind of, I look at my beat really as the interior
04:58department in some cases.
05:01We did a pretty deeply reported profile of Ryan Zinke when he was secretary of the interior
05:06that was, I think, surprising to a lot of our readers because it sort of showed him
05:11in an unvarnished light of who this person is and what his motivations were as a steward
05:17of our public resources.
05:19And it surprised people because that was stepping out of, think of a little bit of the expected
05:23role of outdoor magazines, which is, I would say, to promote useful knowledge of how to
05:33use gear and how to kind of basically the sort of how to model of how to be an effective
05:40outdoors person and also be a bit of an apologist for the industry that supports this whole
05:46thing.
05:47The fishing industry, the angling industry, sort of what I call the whitetail industrial
05:50complex in America.
05:53And those are real issues and sort of headwinds that I think resist some of that deep reporting.
05:59When you talk about, do we do a good job, we can talk about what each publication's
06:04motivations are, where their comfort zone is, what topics they choose to tackle.
06:08But as you alluded, a lot of the failure to do this job and do it well across, I think,
06:16the entire industry is, as you said, because it takes a lot of resources to do this work
06:21and do it well.
06:22You need quite a bit of money for lack of a better explanation.
06:29And that's something that each day that goes by, each year that goes by, outdoor publications
06:34have less and less of.
06:35I mean, it's just the nature of the business these days.
06:38And so whether you, a lot of these publications, and I can speak for myself, it's not always
06:45a question of will or interest or ability.
06:49It's often simply a question of resources.
06:52I think about, so I was formerly the editor-in-chief of Outdoor Life.
06:56And within that time period, I probably made half a dozen to eight hires.
07:03And in some cases, I'm looking for somebody who is nimble with all kinds of content, whether
07:11that be digital content or can turn a phrase that then it can be produced into a print
07:16piece and who knows sort of their beat.
07:20But I would say that the audience expectation is that somebody who's going to cover, let's
07:26say, fishing as a department columnist for Field and Stream and Outdoor Life isn't being
07:32hired because they're great resourceful journalists.
07:35They're being hired because they're good anglers.
07:38I look at some of the enthusiast magazine sort of peer groups, and I think it's a little
07:44bit different in our world.
07:45So I look at car and driver and sort of some of the automotive titles.
07:50The people who are covering automotive, like high-end race cars, are not racers.
07:54They're just people who are good at learning about cars and then reporting to a general
08:00audience.
08:01That's a little bit different, at least in my perspective of the skill set we're hiring
08:05for, and it's people who are, if not experts, at least very familiar with these narrow topics.
08:11I think in some ways, it's the expectation to think that an outdoor journalist working
08:16for Outdoor Life is going to deeply cover environmental issues.
08:19I wish it wasn't.
08:20Yeah, but I mean, isn't that to some degree still a resource issue?
08:24I mean, if Outdoor Life or Hatch Magazine or any of these outdoor publications had the
08:30resources and there was room on staff for someone who may not be a good angler or who
08:35may not, that's not one of their passions.
08:40But still in the newsroom, their skill set is environmental reporting, and they're there
08:45to cover the topics in that way from the outdoor perspective.
08:52Because certainly, from my experience from an environmental reporting or conservation
08:58reporting or whatever you want to call it, there's a way that outdoor and an angle and
09:03a lens through which outdoor publications view those issues that's very different from
09:08the way that a traditional environmental interest in publication or an environmental advocacy
09:13group would.
09:14And so to me, that's where with greater resources, having someone with those talents or having
09:19the ability to bring in people with those talents would lead to a whole different kind
09:22of journalism that I think is lacking out there.
09:25Yeah, I don't know if you guys remember Bob Marshall, but he was the longtime environmental
09:30and issues columnist for Field and Stream.
09:34He was also the environmental reporter for the New Orleans Times-Picayune.
09:40You're exactly right, Chad.
09:42Resources, being what they were at the time, we could afford to retain somebody who wrote
09:47a monthly column and deeply reported on environmental issues.
09:50On the outdoor side, outdoor life side, that was George Geiger, who had that same sort
09:55of beat for a long time.
09:58Yeah, so it really was the lack of resources or the sort of atrophying of resources that
10:03ended the justification for that beat.
10:07And they did a good job.
10:08So two years ago, no, it was last year, how time flies, I went to Florida to basically
10:17do an enterprise piece on looking at all of the myriad problems with Florida's water
10:22issues.
10:23I mean, everything from leaking septic tanks to what's going on in the Everglades with
10:27sugarcane processing to the red tide.
10:31And it was a statewide, I spent two weeks in Florida, interviewed probably 25 people.
10:39I mean, it was a fascinating piece.
10:40I think we presented it really well.
10:43That was expensive as hell.
10:45You know, and it wasn't that we were going to lose advertisers because of that depth
10:50of coverage, but it was something I could only do in February because, as Johnny mentioned,
10:57hunting season has got me pretty occupied elsewhere.
11:00And it was something that I, it was sort of an opportunity cost where other things I could
11:04not cover because I did that.
11:06Sure.
11:07And how often, you know, can you do those pieces?
11:11Even when you can, if you fit in one here and there, it's not something that outdoor
11:15publications these days have the ability to, you know, have one a month even on the docket.
11:21It's the resources just aren't there.
11:24So, but again, I think that's half the picture, right?
11:27I mean, I think on one side, you know, if you want to look overall at the failure that
11:33we all seem to agree exists in the outdoor media community on covering these issues,
11:39specifically sporting publications, I think lack of resources is half of it.
11:44But I think the other half is an unwillingness to tackle some of these issues, or at least
11:48an unwillingness to tackle them in depth, to present a real case to the reader, to do,
11:54not do more than simply report on the news bullet points, you know, a very short version
12:00summarizing what's happening, but really not providing the kind of analysis or interpretation
12:05that the journalists are here to do, you know.
12:08From the reader's perspective, are you guys getting feedback?
12:10Are readers wanting more of this information?
12:13Is anybody calling for it?
12:15From Hatch Magazine's perspective, you know, I think people in general imagine that there's
12:22more reader feedback for publications than there are.
12:25Certainly we all get some, but it's not like we're digging out, you know, digging out from
12:30under piles of fan mail or reader mail or letters to the editor every week.
12:34But there's certainly a steady flow that comes in.
12:36And I could say, you know, in terms of, you know, you have different kinds of content.
12:41You have the gear reviews and the how-tos and the stuff like that, that, you know, virtually
12:46every editor in the outdoor media business will tell you pays the bills.
12:49And those are the ones that get read the most.
12:53But in terms of what drives reader feedback, I don't get thank you letters about, you know,
12:59the review we did on the latest hot rod or tips on how to get better traction with your
13:05waiting boots, you know.
13:06But we get thank you letters, and many of which are people taking the time to write,
13:12you know, heartfelt commentary are on the conservation pieces.
13:16Far and away, it's the reporting and the journalism we do and the stuff that people
13:22seem to have the impression on their end that at least was, they consider it, you know,
13:29that we're taking a chance or we're stepping outside the box that a lot of outdoor publications
13:34tend to be comfortable in.
13:36And that's what we get a lot of feedback where people thank me for that.
13:40I would agree with that.
13:40I would say that I would characterize it as feedback.
13:43It's not always sort of laudatory commentary or, you know, appreciative responses.
13:49I'm thinking back to we did a piece, a long digital piece on Bears Ears National Monument
13:54and the pullback of the acreage that was in that designated monument.
14:00And I would say it was about evenly split.
14:04People loved that we were taking on a pretty hard nosed issue and reporting it pretty deeply.
14:09And the other half said, you know, you're I don't subscribe to this to get New York
14:15Times like reporting.
14:16Yeah.
14:17And I don't mean to misrepresent the tenor of the feedback.
14:22We certainly, we certainly got our share of negatives, but it's the negative commentary
14:27is usually, you know, comments on Facebook, comments on, you know, short comments on the
14:31website or you get unsubscribes to the newsletter and people drop a comment there.
14:37But it's the detailed letters that people write where they actually express their thoughts.
14:43Those are usually people taking the time to express their thanks for the work.
14:47Because, again, because we obviously agree it's lacking.
14:51I think the readers are aware of that, too.
14:53And they're thirsty for it and appreciative of it where they can find it.
14:56So I'll give you an example of something that's pretty topical.
14:59I mean, right now, in fact, my deadline for this piece is Friday.
15:02I'm looking at the presidential election through the lens of sportsman's issues.
15:07I'm probably 12 interviews deep into this piece right now.
15:11And it's it's not a piece that is particularly easy.
15:15It's not a piece that's going to be particularly satisfying because I'll get into that in a
15:20second.
15:21But it is a piece I feel like we are obligated to cover.
15:25This is our beat.
15:26And as sort of painful as some of the reporting is and as much feedback, I think it's going
15:32to actually be a huge content driver.
15:36It may only influence one or two voters because people have lines made up so much in this
15:43political climate.
15:44But it's one I feel very strongly that we're obligated to cover.
15:49I'm interested in reading that right now.
15:52Yeah, well, I mean, to Chad, so this is what I think and Chad, correct me if I'm wrong,
15:57but this is one sort of dichotomy that you don't have to tread quite as I do.
16:04So it's interesting in terms of the reporting for this piece.
16:08And I think I think I have about six sources on each side on for each of the candidates,
16:14Trump and Biden, almost singularly on the Trump side.
16:19Everybody is saying this is all about guns on the Democratic side.
16:23Almost everyone to a person is saying this is about restoration of balance.
16:27And this is about making sure that we have rigorous environmental rules and regulations
16:33going forward.
16:34Now, there's some variations within that, of course, but those are kind of the two great
16:39dichotomies.
16:40And what's interesting about this is these are also the dichotomies that have sort of
16:44riven our world for 50 years.
16:48And I just see it now is really like almost everything else in the political environment
16:53is sharpening and becoming more shrill.
16:55But I can trace the origins to this discussion back at least as far as 50 years with does
17:01are you more interested in having a gun or having holistic, sustainable places to use
17:07that gun?
17:08I mean, and really that has defined so much of our population and the outdoor the readership
17:12of Outdoor Life and other I would call them hook and bullet magazines for a generation,
17:16maybe more.
17:18Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something we don't have to address as much in the work
17:23we do.
17:23But I don't I imagine we'd agree that that's a false dichotomy that you have to deal with.
17:29And, you know, maybe we have to ask ourselves, is that one of the failings of of the outdoor
17:34media that that false dichotomy has been around this long, that it continues to persist, that
17:41we have to choose between sensible environmental regulations and and guns?
17:45You know, is that a topic that we should be tackling more earnestly?
17:50You know, I don't know that it is a false dichotomy.
17:53I mean, if you listen to if you've listened to any of the Supreme Court nomination hearings
17:57this week, you know, that this Heller decision, that's the Supreme next Supreme Court is going
18:01to revisit kind of is a fundamental is that is the ability to own a gun, the right to
18:08own a gun and individual right?
18:09Or is it a collective right?
18:10I don't know that that's going to be decided right away.
18:13But that's a pretty big issue.
18:15If you're a gun owner in America, I think the Republicans have done a masterful job
18:19of making a selection all about that.
18:21And I think that part of the dichotomy is, if not false, it's at least skewed.
18:27But I don't think that people who say that, you know, the guns are the only thing that
18:31matters that guns are a cross in terms of sort of this religious sort of symbolism
18:36are all wrong.
18:36I think they're exaggerating the risk.
18:38But if I'm being honest about my reporting, I think it's real.
18:41I don't think it's as real as the people who want to believe it to be is.
18:45But on the other side of it, and this again, I'm a moderate in all things and kind of a
18:50fence rider.
18:51I don't think the disasters of some of the rollbacks of the waters of the US are as dire
18:58as people are going to think.
18:59I think that was probably an overreach a little bit.
19:01So if we're being really honest, certainly in the West, where I hear about it all the
19:05time, we went way too far one way and now we've gone way too far the other way in terms
19:11of rolling back all of these clean water acts and regulations.
19:15So is at some point, and this goes back to that resource issues to really get down to
19:20the absolute, you know, bare wire of these issues.
19:24Honestly, even in this piece, I'm not going to have time to do that.
19:27Right.
19:27And I think that, you know, that highlights the need for these this kind of work to be
19:34a more constant drumbeat rather than something that we're only able to do here and there
19:38along the way due to resources.
19:40Trying to think of something to add to that and I can't.
19:46I'm, you know, as a lifelong gun owner, I've never, I've never really, really worried about
19:56my guns being taken away, no matter what, you know, what candidate was up for election.
20:04Actually, I've been a little more concerned about Trump's thoughts.
20:08I think he says something about taking the guns away first and then come back and do
20:12this legislation.
20:15That was, that was more of more concern to me than anything in any Democrat has said,
20:20and not any Democrat.
20:22But I agree that there's been probably overblown on both sides, but I'm concerned that there
20:28is so much of the population that is that one issue voter.
20:31Now, I understand that Second Amendment to people that think like that actually encompasses
20:38more than just guns.
20:41It's actually the barrier between them and a, you know, possibly tyrannical government.
20:49I understand that's a lot of the thought processes.
20:51That's a fundamental right on so many levels.
20:54Like you said, I fall into the camp of, you know, if we don't have a place to go, I don't
21:00understand what the guns are worth.
21:02Kind of like Leopold said, you know, all this is for naught if you don't have a blank place
21:07on the map.
21:08It seems like also, and you can correct me, you said you've seen this, Andrew, you've
21:12seen this going on for 50 years, but doesn't it seem like you said, well, you also said
21:17it's gotten more shrill, but it seems like that that single issue gun voter has become
21:23more prominent.
21:25Is that a symptom of the uncertain times we're in?
21:29I think part of it comes to not only our failure as communicators, but our audience's failures
21:35to receive messages.
21:38It's a really easy message to receive to say they're going to come for you.
21:42They're going to come for your guns.
21:44It's hard to understand like how national energy policy affects land leasing on winter
21:51range in the West.
21:53Yeah, the threat out there that there's someone going to take your defenses away and you're
21:56going to be left helpless is, again, very visceral, very primal.
22:01So I understand that.
22:03And I do feel like guns have become a kind of cultural placeholder to say we understand
22:09guns.
22:10We, you know, it's we're for all for rural America.
22:14And I think that's been a really effective message.
22:18What's interesting to me is in the context of this piece I'm working on right now, I've
22:23just desperately looked for kind of a bedrock Democrat in those sort of grange states of
22:30the northern Midwest, northern Minnesota, lots of rural Wisconsin, these places that
22:34really grew up with kind of a populist Democratic tradition, a person who came from that tradition
22:40who says, you know what, I'm voting for Trump because it really is all about guns.
22:44I can't find that person.
22:45I can find more people who say I'm a recovering Republican and I can't believe that if as
22:51a thinking hunter angler in America, you would ever vote Republican because you're not voting
22:55for your interest, your self-interest.
22:58But I do want to get to that idea of much of what we're talking about here is a way to
23:05speak to rural America and say, we get you.
23:09Those coastal elites do not.
23:11You know, I think all of these issues, this isn't something that just happens on the Republican
23:15side, right?
23:15I mean, this is this is the problem.
23:17Like we're sitting here talking about how guns have become to dominate, you know, that
23:22entire side of the political aisle, specifically in outdoor media, of course.
23:26But, you know, this is something that the Republicans do and have been doing for 30
23:31years now on, you know, whether it's guns or abortion or church and schools, things
23:35like that.
23:36Democrats do the same thing with identity politics on their side.
23:40You know, maybe part of the reason outdoor media is failing is because the audiences
23:44they're speaking to are are less interested in these issues.
23:48And so we feel less inclined to cover them in the way that they demand.
23:51I don't know.
23:53I actually think that's a very, very insightful comment.
23:56We I would argue that hunters and anglers are the canary in the coal mine when it comes
24:02to recognizing the effects of climate change.
24:05So we actually we pitched an entire issue of outdoor life last year related to climate
24:11change and really looking at some of these leading indicators that almost all of our
24:15audience recognizes.
24:18Where we got stuck on it was we really felt like our audience did not have the interest
24:24in in they may recognize it, but they don't want to reach the conclusions that we were
24:29forcing them to.
24:30And so we sort of kept sort of perpetually putting it on hold.
24:34Well, let's wait a year.
24:34Let's wait a year.
24:35Let's wait a year.
24:36I think now more than four or five years ago when we started talking about this, I think
24:40there is more of an appetite for talking about this, more of a spreading recognition that
24:44it's just real and impacting.
24:46But it is one of those issues that you're I think you're right to to see or say is.
24:54It's so complicated and so complex that that aptitude for consuming that kind of media
25:01is is not nearly as strong as how about another binocular?
25:05How about another binocular review or a fly rod review?
25:08I've read countless comments on on both Facebook sites, Outdoor Life and Hatch.
25:14You know, people say on any kind of even semi-controversial topic, you know, I don't come here to read
25:21this.
25:21I come here to escape this.
25:24Again, what's still hard for me to wrap my head around is that all of these issues that
25:27we're talking about that need to be reported are absolutely vital to the continuation of
25:33these activities that we're enjoying.
25:36But like you said, though, that's a huge, big topic full of complexities and nuance
25:41that makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
25:44Right.
25:44But I guess it comes down to, you know, again, what you see is your responsibility.
25:50And certainly you could, you know, you could craft a publication that's job is to feed
25:56people's insatiable desire for rec porn, you know, whatever that is, whether it's fishing
26:01porn or hunting porn or climbing, whatever.
26:03Like all of that endless content of photos of big fish and and gear reviews and all that.
26:09And if that is your mission, that's fine.
26:12I just don't know that it's a sustainable one, because as you said, none of this goes
26:16on for much longer if we don't draw attention to these issues.
26:20So on one hand, you've got just your moral obligation that you may feel from a personal
26:24level or from an organizational perspective.
26:27But from a business perspective, and I think a lot of the outdoor brands are realizing
26:32this, you're seeing a lot of the the gear manufacturers, the apparel manufacturers
26:36have you can see that tide turning over the years that they're realizing that they have
26:41to invest in communicating the importance of these issues with their audiences or they
26:48don't have a long term plan because it's not like fishing or hunting or any of these
26:52things are going to disappear overnight.
26:55But I mean, the market grows smaller and smaller every year if we don't take the steps
27:00to protect it.
27:01And protecting it comes with informing the audiences that we're all privileged enough
27:07to have about the things that they need to know about and not allow, as we're discussing,
27:15Republicans to shift the issues entirely to guns and abortion, Democrats to talk mostly
27:22about identity politics, other social issues so that they can avoid entirely dealing with
27:29the difficult issues, whether those are those issues are climate change or economic issues
27:35or, or what have you, that, you know, listen, we all know the deal has an obvious impact
27:43on the people that that provide them with most of those campaign dollars.
27:47So I do feel like it's our obligation to cover these for this main reason is, I don't
27:55think that a lot of the readers who can benefit most from that nuanced discussion and having
28:01this in their sort of content stream are ever going to read it if it comes from Time magazine,
28:07New York Times, Newsweek, because they, they already come to the, they've already arrived
28:13at, they don't trust the source, and they don't know who's telling the story.
28:16I think having strong identities within our world gives us an ability, but also the requirement
28:24to talk about hard issues, because our audience knows us as somebody who were hardcore hunters
28:30and anglers and outdoors people, they're participants, just like the readers are.
28:35So I think that when we do talk about these issues, and we use our reporting skills to
28:41substantiate with quotes and background information, what we're talking about,
28:46that we do have an ability to lead our audience to a conclusion.
28:50Maybe it's not the ones that we particularly are prescribing, but at least that we've brought them
28:53to become a more knowledgeable consumer and advocate for these resources.
28:59So I think when we don't do that, and I look across the outdoor media landscape, and there
29:05are so many brands who never even weighed into this world of reporting and our advocacy at all,
29:12because it is so fraught, but I think it is our obligation to do it because we are known people.
29:17This is a great conversation. I didn't have to talk much, which made it even better, just got to listen.
29:31We are sportsmen, and we are in trouble.
29:36We've learned what happens when we underestimate a serious threat.
29:41We can't make that same mistake with climate change.
29:44We need to stand up for America, and for our kids and grandkids, and tell Congress to act on climate.