Dubai-based star opens up on sexual misconduct in Malayalam films and how change is necessary
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00:00Good afternoon, this is Manjusha Radhakrishnan from Gulf News. I'm the entertainment editor
00:09and today I have actress and Dubai based RJ Naila Usha. The reason why we are meeting
00:14today is a bit grim when compared to usually we're promoting movies, but today we're talking
00:19about the findings of the HEMA committee, which for those who don't know, the Malayalam
00:24film industry is going through a me too movement of sorts. When a committee found observations
00:29of, let's say, casting couch, unfair work practices and sexual misconduct happening
00:33at workplaces. I'm here to talk to Naila Usha, because she's worked in the industry as well.
00:38Just to find out what does she think of the findings? What were your first reactions?
00:43See, I wasn't surprised because I'm sure even before getting into movies, I knew this kind
00:49of a practice would happen in cinema because it is an unorganized labor and more than any
00:53other industry, these kind of things happen. So the first time I went to a movie set, I
00:58had one of my family member traveling with me, at least for the first three movies. So
01:02my case was a lot different here. I could say that I come into that privileged bracket
01:09where I was invited to be a part of the film. Every film I worked as a lead heroine in the
01:13film. So obviously the treatment given to me will be different. Like they fly me down,
01:18they give me the best of the hotels, they agree to my terms, whether it is payment or
01:23you know, if I need assistance and all of those terms are agreed upon before I sign
01:26a contract and I'm part of the film. But that is not the case with everyone. I think
01:31you don't have to actually be in cinema to understand all of this. Cinema is something
01:34which all of us invest in, other than our daily work or your holidays, your next thing
01:39is entertainment and you want to know what is happening in cinema, what is happening
01:42in their personal lives and all of that. So we've heard all of this. We've heard actresses
01:47coming out and saying that, you know, I've been asked for sexual favors to be part of
01:52the film and lead actresses, even Parvati Thiruvath, I think many years ago, before
01:57she was trolled by general public for whatever she had come out, you know, she had openly
02:04said that, you know, I've been asked. Proposition. Yeah. So now people do not ask me because
02:08I have gained the space for myself in the industry. So the initial days, even she had
02:13to go through it. So I am sure a lot of women had to go through it. They have come out,
02:17they've spoken about that on social media. So it is something which is very common in
02:23the industry. And if someone from the industry is shocked about the findings of the Hema
02:28Commission, I'm shocked about that. Yeah. Right. I mean, I'm sure people are not shocked
02:33about it. They just addressed what was always there. It was like the best, worst kept secret,
02:37open secret. Right. But you were never at any point. Did you have any such unpleasant
02:44experiences? As much as I stand with the people who are fighting for this, the people
02:49who are victims, I would also like to start off saying that I have never had a bad experience
02:54from Malayalam cinema. That is the only cinema I've worked with. I've only been treated with
02:58respect. Like I told you, I've always been invited to be part of the project. So there's
03:02a lot of difference between people who are invited to be part of the project than the
03:07people who are sending their resumes like you would audition for any job. Like you want
03:12to work as a manager in a company, as a clerk in a company, you have to send your resume
03:16saying that, you know, I'm qualified. I'd love to be a part of your company. So similarly,
03:20there are women like men who dream cinema. And what is their way to, you know, get the
03:26contact of a director? So you ask somebody, some production controller, can you give me
03:30the director's number? And how do the, how does the director get to know you? You send
03:34your CV, send your photograph. So that probably gives them a feeling that this woman is approachable,
03:41is ready for the so-called compromise, adjusting, whatever, whatever. Adjustments. Yeah, that's
03:45the buzzword currently. Everybody has to adjust. So you were not asked to adjust. Actually,
03:51I've not had that experience. And people have worked with me. I've worked in very few films
03:55and even my hairstylist or assistants or other actresses, none of them have personally told
04:03me about any such experiences of knocking on their door. They have a lot of professional
04:07issues where maybe their payments are not coming on time or they have been made to work
04:13over time and all of that. But other than that, this phase, I haven't heard directly
04:17from anyone. Okay. So nobody has come to you? We haven't discussed about it. Like the women
04:26in Cinema Collective, when they came together, they had women coming together and talking
04:30about it. And that's when they're like, Oh my God, this happened to you? This happened
04:33to you? There's a pattern of behavior. Correct. So this never happened to me because I was
04:37not part of that group, an active part of the group, though I'm emotionally part of
04:41that group. Yeah. So I never had an opportunity to sit and talk with these women who had to
04:45go through it. No. So it's interesting because one of your co-stars, Jaya Surya is one of
04:50the accused. Again, he's an alleged predator. We don't know yet. It's still yet to be proven.
04:55There's a legal system in place. But a woman has come forward saying that she had an unpleasant
04:59experience with him. As an artist who shared space with him, perhaps you had a different
05:04dynamic with him. I think my second film, I shot it immediately after my first film
05:09shoot, even before my first film got released. That was Punyala Nagar, which I did with him.
05:14I had a fantastic experience working with Jain. He's one of my close friends as well.
05:20In the industry, if I would say like one male actor who I can just call and say, Jain, I'm
05:25coming out. Can you can you just give a bite for my friend who is celebrating his birthday
05:29and is your fan? I can openly ask that to Jaya Surya. So he's that kind of a friend
05:33of mine. So it's very shocking that these kind of, you know, women are coming out and
05:40seeing such experiences happen to them. So I don't know, taking everything with a pinch
05:44of salt. I have no idea. I mean, like, it's pretty shocking for me. I haven't spoken to
05:48him after that. I was very surprised by that. When I say surprised, it is not that I don't
05:53believe what she's saying or I stand with Jain here. I do not know. But then I'm very,
05:58very surprised. I'm like, wow.
06:00Okay. Like, it's very interesting. Like yesterday, I was following the news and the number of
06:04names that came out. I mean, it's extensive, the list. The rot, I think, runs very deep.
06:11And again, all of this will take time for reforms to come. What do you think should
06:15be the corrective? Do you think would there be reforms following this outrage?
06:20Yes, because the committee studied and I think the report was ready some four years
06:25ago. And I'm sure everybody, the chief minister or whoever is involved with this would have
06:32read the entire thing and would already have known who the people are or the perpetrators.
06:38Yeah, perpetrators are, they would have a clear idea, but no actions were taken. Today
06:42or like last week when the report came out and when the general public started investing
06:46so much in it is when all of these names started coming out and people started resigning and
06:52at least, you know, they've shattered the so called patriarchal system which is existing
06:58in Malayalam cinema. So that happened, I think, majorly because of the public reaction.
07:05Names were out every time. I know some of these women who came out.
07:102019. Yeah, yeah. Like for instance, against Siddique, it was 2019.
07:14And no, I mean, there are other women who came out much before that and said that, you know,
07:17I've been mistreated in my set or I have a complaint against this person.
07:21They've written it on their social media. They've written it on their Facebook.
07:23But now it's seen with more seriousness.
07:26So I think this is the time if any reformation has to happen, this is the time.
07:29This is it, is it? Prithviraj said a very important point where they said there's no
07:33women representation in Amma, which I think is really like telling.
07:37I think there are women representation, but not in the major, in the boardroom.
07:42Like, yeah, exactly. Those who make the call, they're not there.
07:44Right. There was Jomol and everybody was like, what is she?
07:47You know, and she kind of dismissed the allegations made by survivors.
07:51And she was cancelled immediately by the, let's say, the social media public.
07:55Do you believe that cancelling people is the right way to go?
07:58Like, I think at that point of time, Jomol as an actor was saying her experience.
08:04Like, if you would ask me, if you would put me in a press meet and ask me,
08:07okay, Naida, what is your opinion about it?
08:09I would only say that I have not had a bad experience, but following to that,
08:12I would also stand by women who's gone through that and all of that.
08:15Maybe at that point of time, I don't know.
08:18Maybe she was put in a spot. I don't know.
08:22Okay. Okay. All right. But no, but I have to say that even here,
08:25while you're saying that it doesn't happen to you personally,
08:28you don't question or invalidate the experiences of somebody else.
08:31And also you would know. I mean, if you don't know, that is, I mean,
08:35like you're not actively involved in the cinema that is being made, right?
08:38Like you've been working in the industry for so long and you don't know that it is happening.
08:42You might not directly know, but you would still know, right?
08:45Right. Right. Yeah.
08:46Would you caution somebody else before joining the film industry?
08:49Would you give them a crash course on,
08:50if an actor calls you late at night to discuss or a technician or a filmmaker
08:54calls you at night to discuss a script in his room,
08:57clearly there's something wrong there. I mean, or do you think?
09:02Or does it come with experience?
09:03It happens to your, applicable to your industry as well.
09:06Your senior manager calls you to his room and says that,
09:10come on, let's discuss this at 2.30. You wouldn't go as well.
09:13You feel like I'm sleeping not at 2.30 in the afternoon tomorrow, right?
09:17So I think that's, that's the common sense.
09:19And I wouldn't want to kill any woman's dream saying that cinema is a bad place
09:22for you to come. I have earned a lot of respect out of cinema.
09:25I have earned a lot out of cinema, a lot of love out of cinema.
09:28And I would want anybody with dream, like a man,
09:31a woman can also pursue her dream in films. And you just,
09:35you just have to right now the platform is open for you to come and say no,
09:39and people are scared of you.
09:41So I think the situation is going to change so much in Malayalam cinema.
09:44So I think this is the right time that you can come. And yeah,
09:47people might come and knock your door, just make noise.
09:50People might come and ask you for favor, say no, be bold enough to say no.
09:54But they're denied work. That's the issue here, right?
09:56Denial of work, you know, here, Manjusha,
09:58I would say if you are asked to make a team within your organization,
10:01they're telling you, Manjusha,
10:02you make a team of four and there are different teams like yours.
10:06You would always pick people who you like, right? If it is a favor,
10:08there is a favor involved in it, it is a different case altogether.
10:11But denying work in terms of favorism and mafia and whatever, whatever.
10:15The powerful cliques that exist in the...
10:17I think, I think an actor is the person who decides everything because the film
10:22runs on that person.
10:23The lead actor, the male actor.
10:24So the male actor, whether the film flops, everybody, uh, you know,
10:28puts it on the male actor. So the entire responsibility is on his head.
10:31So I think to a great extent, he has the power to say,
10:34I don't know if it is right or wrong,
10:36but he has the power to say who has to be along with him in that movie.
10:40I don't know if that's the right practice or is there like...
10:42It's an unfair practice, isn't it? Are you bankable enough?
10:45I do not know. But then how would you judge someone?
10:47This is not based on marks, right? It's a very qualitative judgment.
10:50Like I don't like her work in the previous film.
10:52So you can choose someone else. It's a very qualitative judgment.
10:55You can like me or not.
10:56I know that I've earned like 10 points in it and you're still not picking me.
11:00The industry that I have worked with,
11:02at least the makers that I have worked with,
11:04especially the young filmmakers, they're only looking at their project.
11:08They just want the best outcome out of it, you know?
11:10So they want the best actors to work, the best technicians to work.
11:13Have you ever felt unsafe though on a set at any point?
11:15I have never. That's what I said.
11:16Never. No powerful cliques that you have come across?
11:21I have a list of demands when I go into a movie.
11:24I say, I need a room with balcony because I'm claustrophobic.
11:27They agree to that. They're like, okay, ma'am, this hotel has, is it okay?
11:29They send me pictures of the room. Is this okay for you?
11:31Only the windows open. Is it okay for you? I said, yeah, it's fine.
11:34As long as the windows open, I'm fine.
11:35So you're the pampered one?
11:36That's what I said. I'm a privileged one.
11:38Yeah. I don't know if it's okay to say it at this point of time.
11:42Yes, I am the privileged one.
11:43And everybody doesn't get that privilege.
11:45So being in this position of having that privilege,
11:48I have to stand with the rest of them who have not had that privilege.
11:51And who's dreaming bigger than me, who has the ability,
11:56the talent to be in cinema,
11:58whether it is in the acting front or the technical front,
12:01you have to come forward.
12:02I know a lot of assistant directors who work with me and were like,
12:05you know, five years down the line,
12:07I'll be a director and you're going to act in my film.
12:09I'm like, I'm looking forward to that day.
12:11I really want you to be a director.
12:12So they're all there with dreams.
12:13And I was also quoting this on radio the other day.
12:15Some of our mainstream actresses, like for example,
12:18Nimisha Sajjan, I was surprised to spot her as a junior artist or like
12:23a small actor in one of the big films.
12:25She was just behind the lead actress holding a file.
12:28She didn't even have a scene.
12:29Recently?
12:30No, many years ago, when she began.
12:32That's how she started her career.
12:34And then she made it big.
12:35Now she's pan-Indian and she's won accolades and awards and all of that.
12:39So just like how a male actor, you know, most of these assistant directors or
12:43what do you say, these associates or whoever work
12:47might not ideally want to become a director.
12:49They would want to be an actor.
12:50But just to get into that circle, just so that the director knows the phase
12:54or you get to know more people,
12:55you get into it, into a technical field and then move into acting.
12:58Right. So similarly, women also let them pursue, let them get into a technical
13:02field and then into acting or let them get into a smaller role
13:04and then become a lead actor.
13:05So give them a space to work now.
13:07OK, and then make it safe.
13:09And I think for Malayalam cinema, this is the best phase
13:11because this always happened and we've been silent about it.
13:14Yes. And now people started speaking about it.
13:16And a lot of introspection is happening.
13:18And I think this is the this is the right time.
13:21And Malayalam cinema has started this movement.
13:23And I think from cinema, like quoting what Prithviraj said,
13:27you know, Malayalam cinema started from cinema.
13:29Let it move to other industries.
13:30For sure. It should percolate to other industries.
13:32To other cinema industries and also other industries within Kerala.
13:36Be it banking, be it IT or anywhere.
13:39Any work space.
13:39Women come up and, you know, speak out.
13:41And if they have a problem, they have to be heard.
13:43Let's find a solution.
13:44Let's create a safer work space for women.
13:47Right, right.
13:47What surprised me is that like younger actors like Tovino Prithviraj,
13:51Manju Warrier, Puttapar Post, etc.
13:53have come out and said something about the issue.
13:56But seasoned actors like Suresh Gopi, for instance,
13:59Mohanlal, Mammootty, Dulkash Pahad, all have been very stonily silent about it.
14:05Do you think that's, you know, how should we process that?
14:09Maybe they have not come out in the public for an event
14:13where people went to the media, went up to them and asked for it,
14:16or they haven't held a press meet or spoken about it.
14:18No, they haven't done any of that.
14:19Or put a post on Instagram or that is the way that you show your support, right?
14:24Like something happens in Maya.
14:25You control the narrative.
14:26Yes.
14:26Then if you put it up on social media, ideally, but not even a social media post.
14:30Yeah, so which I do not know.
14:31How would I know?
14:32I mean, like I do not know about it.
14:34Are you a part of WCC or Amma?
14:36No, no, no. I'm not part of AMMA, but I am emotionally always there with WCC.
14:41I'm not part of it.
14:42Oh, you're not allowed to. I didn't know that.
14:43Yeah. Oh, OK.
14:44OK, so none of the collectors, et cetera.
14:46But but yes, I was initially part of the group.
14:49It all started as a WhatsApp group where everybody were added
14:51and we all gave our suggestions and they asked us, is this OK?
14:54And, you know, we were all involved and we were all included
14:58in the discussion and everything.
15:00But over a period of time, I was very inactive
15:02because I could not actively be involved because I can't hear all of them.
15:06Their stories, because I'm sitting here in Dubai
15:08and I don't know most of them and their stories.
15:10So I was a very silent part of WCC.
15:14But I've always told the core group that I am there with you.
15:17I'm there with women.
15:18And it's a great fight that they've put in, you know, all credit
15:22to all of these women who've lost their career.
15:24You know, some of the best actors, so they fought a lot
15:29and all the attacks that they had to face on social media.
15:32And now is the time for them to celebrate.
15:34I love it. I know. I know that as well.
15:36And I have to say it all started with Bhavna as well, who is OK to be named.
15:41You know, it all started with one woman, that attack, that brutal attack.
15:44Right. That's what everybody says.
15:46Let's not forget that.
15:47Enough is enough. Yeah.
15:48I know with that, with that, women started coming together
15:51and saying if this can happen to a big actor like her.
15:54Just imagine about the safety of other actors
15:57whose names probably people do not know.
15:59Today, when women are coming out, you've seen the comments below their
16:03what do you say posts? Who are you?
16:05We don't even know you.
16:05You're a fading actress. Yeah.
16:07Are you not getting paid?
16:08So whereas I've seen comments where people are like, well, let the big names
16:11come out, let the main actors come and speak out.
16:13So that's where the meat is, right?
16:14Yeah, that's that's where the juicy news is.
16:17So it's very, very surprising.
16:18So one side, the public is supporting what is happening
16:21and they are with the women.
16:23And at the same time, there are a lot of these other cleansing
16:25that needs to happen in social media where people need to stop commenting
16:28and judging on other actresses, too.
16:30Yeah, that too I have seen, like, you know, some actresses
16:33part of the AMMA award night, which happened recently.
16:37So they go down and comment like, oh, you're in this,
16:39which means you would have compromised.
16:41That kind of commenting also has to stop.
16:43That kind of attitude to women who are part of the AMMA
16:46is not because they don't have solidarity with WCC.
16:49No, they're part of that because that is also a union of actors, right?
16:53So they're there because they're an actor, but don't judge them
16:57based on all of these allegations happening.
16:59Like you, so many people have asked me on social media,
17:01have you had to go through this experience?
17:03Did you have a wrong time? Tough time?
17:04No, I will not stay there if it's a tough time for me.
17:07Right, right. And the thing is, you have the power to say, no,
17:09I hope most women get that power as well, right?
17:12They would have obviously directly or indirectly seen all of this happen
17:15right in front of their eyes.
17:16This has been happening in cinema for a long time.
17:19Now things are going to change.
17:20Right. Now we are in the right time.
17:22Now it is time for women to start dreaming big in cinema
17:25and to make it big in cinema.
17:27I hope, Inshallah, that's the dream.
17:29And I have more power to women.
17:30I really hope they survive and thrive.
17:33Thank you so much, Naida.