CGTN Europe spoke to Alistair Jones, Associate Professor of Politics at De Montfort University.
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00:00Let's talk to Alistair Jones, Associate Professor of Politics at De Montfort University.
00:04Alistair, welcome back, good to see you.
00:06So, Europeans now see the United States more as a necessary partner than an ally.
00:11How significant do you think is this shift, given the history between these former allies?
00:20I think it's a significant shift. It's not saying, hey, we don't like the US anymore.
00:25It's more a case of a wariness. We need you, you need us, but you're not the close friend
00:33and close supporter that you were. And I think Trump's way of doing things,
00:38his transactional approach to it, everything's a zero-sum game. You win or you lose. There's
00:42no sharing. I think this flies in the face of the way Europe has run itself,
00:49the different countries across Europe have run themselves post-Second World War, post-Cold War,
00:54where it's much more about shared values. It's about developing agreement, about developing
00:59consensus. And Trump doesn't do things that way. It's win or lose, and he's got to win.
01:03And if he doesn't get what he wants, he throws his toys out of the pram.
01:07And we're seeing this on a whole host of issues, as with the discussion of the tariffs.
01:11You put tariffs on us because we put them on you, we'll put even more on you.
01:15It's like a temper tantrum at times. And that's basically not the European way of doing things.
01:21But haven't affections and affiliations between the two always ebbed and flowed?
01:27Is there anything really new about this?
01:30I think what is new, if you look at the break, David, look, for example, at the UK,
01:34we are still the country that talks about the US as being an ally rather than a necessary partner.
01:39I mean, we're the most saying an ally, but there are more people in the UK saying necessary partner
01:44than saying ally just ahead. And I think this poll shows this wariness more so than ever before.
01:52Yes, relationships have ebbed and flowed. You can look at it during the Nixon years,
01:55you can look at it during the Vietnam War, and a whole host of other issues, Iraq more recently,
02:01where the relationship has been a bit frosty at times, but there's still been that underlying
02:07degree of closeness. This time, that closeness is fraying. I think that's the polite way of
02:15describing it. It feels perhaps like we're at the early stages of the divorce at the
02:19moment. Is it possible we might fall in love again, do you think?
02:25There is all likelihood we'll fall in love again. And it may simply be that when Trump
02:30ceases to be US president, whoever succeeds in being a Democrat, being a Republican,
02:35they acknowledge the importance of Europe to America and vice versa. So it's not as if Europe
02:42is saying no to America, we're just saying, hang on a minute. There are some members of the EU,
02:48for example, you've got Giorgio Maloney and Viktor Orban, so the prime ministers of Italy,
02:53Hungary, who are much more enthusiastic about Trump. But on issues such as Russia and the
02:59invasion of Ukraine, Trump says, oh, I can solve this. But if that means Ukraine giving up
03:06territory, Europe is not going to be happy about that, because a number of countries that border
03:10on Europe are worried about they could be next. So I think post-Trump, things will probably warm
03:16up again. But that's four years away or three and a half years away.
03:21Alistair, good to see you. Thank you for that. Alistair Jones,
03:23Associate Professor of Politics at De Montfort University in the UK.