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PECA Act passed - Journalists' protests in Pakistan - Khawar Ghumman Analysis
Will a sub-inspector now decide on fake news? PFUJ President Afzal Butt Strong criticism
Where were journalist organizations before the PECA Act? - Hassan Ayub raises questions
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
PECA Act passed - Journalists' protests in Pakistan - Khawar Ghumman Analysis
Will a sub-inspector now decide on fake news? PFUJ President Afzal Butt Strong criticism
Where were journalist organizations before the PECA Act? - Hassan Ayub raises questions
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum viewers, in the program The Reporters, I, Khawar Guman, welcome you all.
00:11From Lahore, Mr. Chaudhary Ghulam Singh, and in Islamabad, Hassan Ayub is with me.
00:15Viewers, yesterday, when journalists from all over Pakistan came out on the streets,
00:21across the board, when they have connections with different groups and organizations,
00:26there was a consensus that the PIKA ordinance will lead to silence in Pakistan.
00:36Life will be very difficult for journalists.
00:38And you saw, from Khyber to Karachi, people came out in every press club
00:44and expressed their reservations in writing, through interviews.
00:52They guided our journalists in front of the government of the time.
00:56If you look at today's newspapers, all the newspapers across the board,
01:01Headlines are printed, first of all, Don, an English newspaper of Pakistan.
01:05They are showing you this because when the world wants to know something about Pakistan,
01:09they first look at English newspapers.
01:11And Don is also a good newspaper of Pakistan.
01:14Cybercrime law given thanks to bite media.
01:17The translation of Urdu is that the cybercrime law has been given such a big gift that it will now eat the media.
01:24You can see the picture of this, viewers, carefully.
01:27The PMUJ leader, Afzal Butt, who is with us today,
01:31you can see him in the studio.
01:34He wanted to go to D-Chowk, but the police were standing in front of him.
01:38Tribune newspaper, another English newspaper, you can see that.
01:42Pika bill gets senate nod amid protest.
01:45Demonstrations were held, but the government did not listen at all.
01:50And they said that this law will be made.
01:53We will not listen to you.
01:55Donation, another English newspaper, you can see that the senate passed the bill.
02:00And the journalists are trying to remind the government of their responsibility,
02:05that you are not doing a good job.
02:07After that, you can see the world newspapers.
02:09The demonstrations that took place in the whole of Pakistan,
02:12those pictures are being shown in front of you.
02:15These pictures were published in the newspapers.
02:18This, viewers, was the whole matter.
02:21The most important thing was that yesterday,
02:23Shari Rehman Sahiba said while talking to the journalists in the parliament,
02:27that we were told that the journalists and the journalistic organizations,
02:31they are on board.
02:32We have talked to them.
02:34The government told them this.
02:36Because the Pakistan People's Party is not a part of the government.
02:41It does support.
02:42But they said that we found out later that the journalists did not know.
02:46After that, Farhadul Ababar is a former senator.
02:49He is a very famous politician across the board.
02:52Wherever he talks, he talks principally.
02:55He tweeted that almost everyone, including Blaval Bhutto Zardari,
03:00said it would have been best to discuss Pika.
03:04He had to write the Pika Ordinance.
03:06With stakeholders, the only way now is President of Pakistan,
03:09who is President Asif Ali Zardari,
03:11to defer signing it into law and urge Chief Minister Punjab,
03:16this is the old Twitter handle of our current Prime Minister,
03:20to seek a broad consultation.
03:23I think 10 days is enough.
03:25Call all the journalistic organizations so that the matter moves forward.
03:28News has also started coming.
03:30Last night, some messages were sent to the Presidency.
03:34If you look at the tradition of the Pakistan People's Party,
03:37it is a tradition of human rights, freedom of expression,
03:41journalism, and freedom of expression.
03:45But a while ago, this news has come on all TV channels.
03:50The amendment that was passed yesterday by the Senate,
03:54when the Presidency has gone, the President has signed it.
03:58At this point in time, that has become an act of the Parliament.
04:28He was not asking for a share in the government.
04:32He was not asking for a position.
04:34He made a small request to five big stakeholders.
04:38The five media stakeholders, PBA, APNS, CPNE, Amends, and PFJ.
04:45He said, Mr. President, please give us some time.
04:49We will discuss with you,
04:51what are the issues in this bill that are related to the mirror of Pakistan.
04:56What are the issues that are related to the freedom of the press.
05:00What are the issues that are related to human rights.
05:04And what are the issues that are related to the election pamphlets of the Pakistan People's Party.
05:09And what are the issues on which Muslim Benazir Bhutto was standing with us,
05:14and he had not made any compromise.
05:17So, unfortunately, let's call him, let's listen to him.
05:22Let's cancel it later.
05:24Yes, let's cancel it.
05:26I don't understand, in a democratic country,
05:29first the stakeholder was ignored in the National Assembly.
05:34Then the stakeholder was ignored in the Senate.
05:38Now, the last forum, the Democratic Forum,
05:42was left to the President House.
05:45Although we said that a month ago, you have returned the Madaras bill.
05:48There is no problem.
05:50What is the problem?
05:52The mirror gives you the power to do that.
05:54When we tell you that these are the things,
05:57then you write and return it.
06:00When the Parliament reviews it, we will prove those things.
06:03If you cannot prove it, it will come back to you.
06:06What is the problem?
06:08So, believe me, today, in this regard,
06:12that the chairman of that party,
06:15the new president of that party,
06:18the one who has been a martyr of the family of the President,
06:21the one who has seen the martyrdom of General Zia,
06:24the one who has seen the martyrdom of General Zia,
06:27we never expected this attitude from that party.
06:30And we can never forget it.
06:32That's why today, we have a meeting with you.
06:34Senator Irfan Siddiqui, who is a journalist,
06:37he writes columns even today.
06:39He is related to the Pakistan Muslim League.
06:41He also had the opinion that
06:43there should be a conversation with the stakeholders,
06:46that there is no harm in discussing this issue with the journalists.
06:51I understand your concerns to some extent.
06:57It was your right that your opinion should be taken,
07:00your advice should be taken,
07:02you should be consulted,
07:04your legal amendments should be incorporated,
07:09and a law should be prepared with consensus.
07:12I agree to this extent.
07:15Mr. Ghulam Sain, you are one of the founders
07:20who laid the foundation of the Pakistan People's Party in Lahore.
07:23You were young at that time.
07:25By the grace of God, you are still young.
07:27Did you also expect this?
07:29Because we were getting positive news from the morning
07:31that the Pakistan People's Party,
07:33and especially the President of Pakistan,
07:35has taken a stand and will listen to it.
07:37No doubt, they will reject it later.
07:39So, ask Mr. Afzal Wajid and comment on this
07:41that why didn't the Pakistan People's Party listen to him?
07:46I didn't expect them to listen.
07:48If the Pakistan People's Party had any resistance,
07:54that we will oppose this law,
07:56otherwise the National Assembly and the Senate
07:58would not have even entered it.
08:01Mr. Afzal Wajid is our leader,
08:05and with a lot of courage, bravery,
08:08conviction and clarity,
08:10he, Lala Hassad and others are working with him.
08:17But unfortunately,
08:19Mr. Afzal Wajid, tell me three things.
08:22What do the government and its institutions want to achieve from this?
08:27Number one.
08:29And what services have such laws done to Pakistan
08:33that they will do today?
08:36And number three.
08:38Should all institutions be shut down now?
08:41Or should we just sit idly by?
08:45And there will be another law that
08:47if the government does not give permission,
08:50that person will not be able to work in any institution.
08:53What do they want to do?
08:55Mr. Wajid, please tell us clearly.
08:57Yes, Mr. Wajid.
08:58Look, Mr. Chaudhary,
09:00we have put this question in front of the government as well.
09:05All the journalists,
09:08all the stakeholders of the Joint Action Committee,
09:13none of us support mother-father freedom.
09:19None of us are supporters of fake news.
09:24In fact, we are the biggest victims of fake news
09:27and the biggest opponents of fake news.
09:30No journalist, no organization is in favor of trolling.
09:37We are the biggest victims of trolling
09:39and the biggest opponents of trolling.
09:41So, if you want to do this work with a good intention,
09:45then what was the harm in conspiring?
09:48We were not asking for a share in the government.
09:51You know about many countries around the world
09:54that when they want to introduce a law,
09:57they look for stakeholders.
10:00It is their duty to go to each stakeholder.
10:04Here, five stakeholders were running after the government
10:08and the government was running ahead
10:10saying that we don't want to listen to you.
10:12So, we say two things,
10:14that either it is a bad policy of the government
10:17or it is something else,
10:19the excuse is something else,
10:21the target is something else.
10:23You are giving such an opportunity to the stakeholders.
10:27We didn't say anything without seeing it.
10:30We said that we want rules and regulations.
10:33But if you sit with us,
10:36will a sub-inspector decide on fake news?
10:40Will a FIA director decide on fake news?
10:46Will a section officer decide on fake news?
10:49Or is it the job of a journalist?
10:51So, what happens in the whole world,
10:54Mr. Chaudhary, you also know,
10:56that news can come from me by mistake.
10:59But you get a notice,
11:01that you rectify your mistake,
11:03the lawyer comes in the notice,
11:05you apologize for it.
11:07So, let's do it.
11:08Now, what is in the PICA?
11:10In this PICA,
11:12first you will be caught,
11:14you will be charged,
11:17you will be punished,
11:19and then you will go for an appeal.
11:21In which country in the world
11:23is it possible to make news a crime,
11:26to make a police capable of doing it?
11:29And then it is possible that
11:31the accusation can be false.
11:34You can take people without giving a sign
11:37and take them away.
11:38What was the excuse?
11:40See, this is not against the journalists.
11:43When Muslim League Noon brought this in 2016,
11:48even then the PFJ protested.
11:51So, even then it was said that
11:54the aim of the PICA is not to catch the journalists.
12:00I say on record that 98% of the people
12:06who were caught on the basis of that PICA,
12:11were either journalists or political workers.
12:14No other person was involved.
12:17I will give you a bigger example.
12:20When the PTI government came,
12:22they put a little more poison in it.
12:25They tried to make it more harmful.
12:28So, we went to the Islamabad High Court.
12:33We had a petition.
12:35Respected Allah was listening.
12:37I was present at the rostrum with my colleagues.
12:39So, the leaders of two parties
12:41entered the Islamabad High Court at that time.
12:44One was Maryam Aurangzeb.
12:47She said that the petition that is being heard today,
12:52Muslim League Noon considers this PICA to be a black law.
12:57To end this, the Muslim League Noon has come to form a party.
13:03You should also take our petition and form a party.
13:06The second request was from the Pakistan People's Party.
13:09Farhatullah Babar was not an individual.
13:12Farhatullah Babar came and said that my party has decided
13:16that we have to file a petition against this law of PICA
13:19in the High Court and form a party
13:23so that this black law can be ended.
13:26At that time, Respected Allah said that
13:28both the parties are present in the Parliament.
13:31You should play your role in the Parliament.
13:34SubhanAllah!
13:36When the opportunity has come to play a role in the Parliament,
13:39you should play your role in the Parliament.
13:42You should play your role in the Parliament.
13:45You should remember your petition.
13:47Now, let's talk about the strategy.
13:49Hassan, this was not a big demand of the journalists.
13:53You should have rejected it.
13:55The 10-day period is also allowed.
13:57I am sitting with President of the PFUJ.
14:02The PFUJ is lazy.
14:04News was already coming in the newspapers.
14:07All the people of the PFUJ are related to the newspapers.
14:11They are related to the Journalism Department.
14:13So, this was not a small demand.
14:16They were listening to this for a month.
14:18So, why did they wait for a month?
14:21This is a very important question.
14:23The government has given a definition of fake news.
14:29If it is very vague,
14:31can you tell us the correct definition of fake news?
14:36I would like to ask the third question.
14:38It has been a long time since electronic media came into existence.
14:42Electronic media was supposed to create a moral code.
14:48That moral code could not be created.
14:51Whenever a draft of a moral code was made,
14:53all our organizations opposed it.
14:57So, no moral code was created.
14:59So, when the moral code could not be created in electronic media,
15:02how will social media be created?
15:04Can we count on them?
15:06We have already created hurdles.
15:10Three questions.
15:12First question.
15:14Before asking me,
15:16Mr. Sanjeev,
15:18let's ask the government.
15:20The government did not ask us this question.
15:24My friend Sanjeev is telling me.
15:27You can ask.
15:29Being a journalist, I have the right to ask.
15:31First of all,
15:33when the cabinet made a committee headed by Rana Sanaw Allah,
15:37it was not a new committee.
15:41It was a committee on digital media and legalization.
15:45The next day,
15:47I went to the Information Minister, Mr. Tarar.
15:52I said, Mr. Tarar, this committee was made.
15:54What if this committee does not give a report
15:57without the consultation of the media stakeholders?
16:00Then this problem will arise.
16:02Do not do this.
16:04At the same time,
16:06they said,
16:08Tassawar,
16:10who is with them,
16:12Tassawar,
16:14run this ticker through the means
16:16that no such law will be made
16:20until the consultation of stakeholders is done.
16:24And that ticker should run on all TV channels.
16:28I am saying this for the information of Hassan Ayub.
16:30But this will not be in the fake news.
16:32There is no such news.
16:34This is a question.
16:36Then a month ago,
16:38I went to Mr. Tarar with a delegation.
16:42I said, Mr. Tarar,
16:44we are seeing different issues.
16:46But the government has not given us any consultation.
16:50Are you bringing a new law?
16:52Mr. Tarar said,
16:54when it comes,
16:56this is not a draft of the government.
16:58This is disinformation.
17:00Whenever there is a draft of the government,
17:02you will be consulted.
17:04And without consulting you,
17:06that bill will be presented.
17:08The day this was presented in the assembly,
17:12this was four days ago.
17:14You were in the Ataad meeting.
17:16Okay.
17:18The PFJ gave a harsh statement on it.
17:20We gave a statement that
17:22Mr. Ataad Tarar has deceived us.
17:24Mr. Tarar complained the next day
17:26that you should not have used
17:28the word deceit.
17:30You say that I did not fulfill my commitment.
17:32So I am still standing on it
17:34that I could not fulfill my commitment.
17:36This is what the information minister said.
17:38Absolutely.
17:40He said that I had promised you.
17:42You would have written against the promise.
17:44So I would not have been sad
17:46because you have written that
17:48you have deceived us.
17:50We were also angry.
17:52So I will say that
17:54I had promised the PFJ
17:56and before this bill,
17:58we did not fulfill that promise.
18:00So I think that
18:02Mr. Hassan...
18:04So what is the definition of fake news?
18:06This is a very important question.
18:08You can ask me.
18:10I have been a journalist for 25 years.
18:12In the presence of your complaint,
18:14why should I give you the definition of fake news?
18:16The biggest definition of fake news
18:18is that if
18:20let's say
18:228-10 statements
18:24if Mr. Hassan would have asked me
18:26I would have prepared for it.
18:28So I would have told him
18:30the factories of spreading fake news.
18:32Definition sir.
18:34Definition.
18:36The definition is very simple.
18:38Fake news is
18:40if I say
18:42I put such an allegation
18:44on someone.
18:46One is a misreport and the other is fake news.
18:48If I say
18:50I don't have a document
18:52and there is no source
18:54then it is fake news.
18:56Which is wrong and baseless.
18:58If it is a table story, then it is fine.
19:00Was there any doubt in this?
19:02I was just wondering.
19:04No, I am saying that
19:06we have to change it.
19:08We have to define fake news.
19:10We told the government
19:12that we will use fake news.
19:14I said that we are
19:16the biggest victim and the biggest opponent.
19:18I have told you.
19:20We don't want a mother-father relationship.
19:22We have told the government.
19:24So either we say
19:26that we are against any rules and regulations.
19:28We want rules and regulations to be made.
19:30So the government
19:32should have known
19:34what they wanted to hide.
19:36We are talking about the Code of Conduct.
19:38Let's take a short break.
19:40After the break, we will talk about the Code of Conduct.
19:42Hassan has sent another important question.
19:44He has asked
19:46what is the reason
19:48why you are not going towards
19:50rules and regulations.
19:52There are already different forums
19:54in front of which
19:56if someone
19:58when I was in Don
20:00and some news has gone wrong
20:02the next day there was a clarification in the newspaper.
20:04Even with that clarification
20:06the agreed party
20:08was not satisfied.
20:10It can go to the Council of Complaints.
20:12The agreed party and the television
20:14is Pemra.
20:16Social media is a new phenomenon.
20:18Has the PFU done anything in this regard?
20:20Is there any homework in this regard?
20:22What did they have to present
20:24in front of the government?
20:26If the government gave them a chance
20:28to sit with us and talk about it.
20:30Stay with us.
20:34Welcome back.
20:36We lost contact with Mr. Chaudhary
20:38due to technical reasons.
20:40I know the definition of fake news from Mr. Chaudhary.
20:42Mr. Chaudhary, tell us
20:44what is fake news?
20:46We have asked Mr. Bhatt
20:48what is the definition of fake news?
20:50If it happens then
20:52the work should be done.
20:54Mr. Chaudhary.
20:56It is very simple.
20:58What is fake news?
21:00The Khawar government
21:02is working for Iran.
21:04Afzal Bhatt is working for China.
21:06Ghulam Hussain is working for Afghanistan.
21:08There is no justification
21:10for this.
21:12There is no proof.
21:14Fake news is that
21:16they are coming with a lot of power.
21:18The whole world is bringing them.
21:20They are bringing billions of dollars to Dubai.
21:22They are bringing 300 billion dollars.
21:24Where have they gone?
21:26Isn't that fake news?
21:28The joke is successful.
21:30I am telling you this.
21:32Is this an assessment?
21:34Is this a commentary?
21:36Mr. Bhatt, tell us.
21:38Mr. Bhatt is asking a question.
21:40Mr. Bhatt.
21:42Mr. Bhatt, tell us
21:44don't cry for these two parties.
21:46Because the people
21:48whom no one asks from home
21:50have neither got votes
21:52nor has anyone owned them.
21:54You have carried them on your shoulders.
21:56But now you tell me
21:58whether we have to close the bases
22:00or bring freedom back
22:02from this country
22:04like through the 26th amendment
22:06you have divided one base.
22:08You have to divide the rest
22:10through this.
22:12What do they have to achieve?
22:14Mr. Bhatt, you don't come to that.
22:16Or are you questioning the community?
22:18Okay.
22:20I have a question for Hassan.
22:22There is a code of conduct.
22:24Does your association
22:26or federation
22:28resist that we don't want to
22:30come under any rule and regulation?
22:32I am repeatedly telling the government
22:34that we are not against rules and regulations.
22:36We want rules and regulations.
22:38You know that the code of conduct
22:40of PFJ is there.
22:42It is there.
22:44Whoever does the reporting
22:46whether for the newspaper
22:48or TV.
22:50And we are bound to it.
22:52You are bound to it
22:54that its norms are there.
22:56If you have to take a point of view
22:58from both sides,
23:00if you have to give death toll
23:02you have to give everyone's name.
23:04All these things are there.
23:06There is no need for anything else
23:08if you have to work for the news.
23:10All those things are there.
23:12Now this is a matter of law.
23:14Law is not made by the organization.
23:16This is the work of the government.
23:18Mr. Hassan, the government has to make it.
23:20We can assist it.
23:22We told the government
23:24that if you do it
23:26in a week or 10 days,
23:28Pakistan will remain.
23:30We will come to you
23:32with a complaint.
23:34I am not a lawyer.
23:36I know a few things.
23:38In this, 58 existing laws
23:40have been touched.
23:42In this,
23:44PICA,
23:46Tarami.
23:48So we told them
23:50that we will go to you.
23:52Our clash with some things
23:54is with the owner of our TV channel
23:56and the owner of the newspaper.
23:58Some things can also happen
24:00in this.
24:02If a reporter comes to us
24:04and his point
24:06is different,
24:08we will consult with our lawyer.
24:10APNS, PBS, EPN.
24:12Then we will see what we can bring to you
24:14on a common point.
24:16We will come to you with a complaint.
24:18On the first day, we said
24:20that it is possible.
24:22This is done.
24:24The Parliament is done.
24:26You can reverse it.
24:28What is the strategy?
24:30We said yesterday
24:32that we were hopeful.
24:34We did not believe
24:36that the way this was happening,
24:38it would not stop.
24:40We were hopeful
24:42that Mr. Zardari
24:44would come to us
24:46and find a solution.
24:48This is his track record.
24:50We said yesterday
24:52that there is no need for this.
24:54This is the voice of the press freedom movement.
24:56The government should not think
24:58that one day there will be a demonstration
25:00and the next day the work will be over.
25:02This press freedom movement
25:04will continue
25:06just like it went against
25:08General Zia-ul-Haq for 3 years
25:10and 6 months against
25:12Praveen Musharraf.
25:14If we have to extend
25:16even more than this,
25:18either you sell vegetables
25:20or leave this work.
25:22You do not have
25:24a third option.
25:26I would like to tell you all
25:28that instead of being punished
25:30for 3-4 years,
25:32it would be better
25:34if you come with us
25:36and join us.
25:38We are with you.
25:40I will talk to you.
25:42I am with you.
25:44I will talk to you.
25:46I will talk to you.
25:48I would like to ask you
25:50to give a clear mind
25:52to your viewers.
25:54But in the case of protesting,
25:56will I stand behind Afzal Bhat
25:58in his case against the government?
26:00I will come to that.
26:02I would like to ask
26:04Mr. Chaudhary.
26:06Mr. Bhat,
26:08I would like to repeat
26:10that you are not
26:12answering me
26:14that this black law
26:46I am with the President of PFUJ and we have seen the movement in the past and I have also been in this city for 25 years.
26:59Every government thinks that what we are thinking and what we want to do is right.
27:06But when some time passes, I remember very well that when this law was being passed in 2016, we wrote on it.
27:13At that time, everyone used to say that this law will be used against you.
27:17When the PTI government came, then it was used.
27:20Even now, we are trying to tell them that the way you have passed this law, no one will be able to escape it.
27:28Now let's see what the government thinks in this regard.
27:34Viewers, let's move on to the next story.
27:35The next story is about negotiations.
27:37When the meetings between the PTI and the government began, the hope was that the matter would move forward.
27:46But the meetings took place, but the matter did not move forward.
27:50Why did the matter not move forward? Viewers, let's talk about it.
27:52The first session took place on 23rd December.
27:56There is a good rumor in the country that this political war is coming to an end.
28:02The second session took place on 2nd January.
28:04The third session took place on 16th January.
28:10And the fourth session was supposed to take place on 28th January.
28:13The PTI was not present there.
28:16Now, why was it not present?
28:18Before that, they had repeatedly said that we need a commission on 9th May, 26th November.
28:22Until then, we will not announce it.
28:24So, of course, we will not sit.
28:26But the government was saying that you have given us a Charter of Demands in writing.
28:30So, you should take this writing response from us.
28:32Yesterday, we were present. We wanted to talk to you.
28:35But you did not listen to us.
28:37Mr. Arana Sinawala, what do you have to say about this?
28:39They are the ones who ran away.
28:41See, they had given the deadline of 31st January.
28:44They had said 7 working days.
28:47And they have been fulfilled today.
28:49Today, we had gone there.
28:51We were present there, where the committee meeting took place.
28:54They ran away from there.
28:55If they had come, we would have responded to their Charter of Demands.
29:00And we would have talked about all the issues.
29:03If someone had explained it on a common point, then the matter could have progressed.
29:08And Irfan Siddiqui said that it is possible that the sweets that we had,
29:15the sweets that we had,
29:17more than their need, or more than their desire,
29:19there were sweets in it.
29:20But they did not sit.
29:22We could have done it.
29:24But if they had sat today,
29:26then they would have achieved more than their expectations.
29:30They would have got what they were not expecting.
29:33If they had sat, they would have talked.
29:35But now we will not get to know.
29:37Neither you nor they will get to know.
29:40In all three meetings, and in the final meeting also,
29:43they never said that,
29:45Sir, if you announce this commission before the fourth meeting, then we will come.
29:50They did not say this.
29:52If they had said, then they would have included us in the announcement of the third meeting.
29:55That this is their condition. We would have fulfilled it.
29:57We would have said that the commission will not be made.
29:59Or they would have said that it has to be made.
30:01Now this is a very big thing.
30:03But as far as we remember,
30:05there are different statements from the beginning of the Pakistan Justice Movement,
30:10that if we make the commission first, then we will sit in the fourth meeting.
30:13But during the meeting, didn't they say that?
30:15The Justice Movement can tell.
30:17But when Barrister Gohar was asked,
30:19Sir, where did you go today?
30:21He would have sat. You would have taken the answer in writing.
30:23So listen to his answer.
30:25If the government wants, is sincere,
30:27there is no state secret in this, nor is it an exam for children.
30:30You wait for the 28th, and you say that the answer we have prepared,
30:33they will give you in the committee room too.
30:35If the government has their answer from the government,
30:38otherwise they would have shared it with us directly before.
30:41Still, we can consider whether to participate in the 28th meeting or not.
30:48Hassan, there has been a debate on this.
30:50It seems that the narrative of the government is that
30:55we came, we sat, we closed the envelopes, we brought it.
30:59You take the answer from us, you didn't sit.
31:02The counter argument they are giving is that
31:04if you are so sincere in creating political instability in the country,
31:09then if you are more present in that envelope than we need,
31:12then you publish it.
31:14The senator would have read it and the matter would have progressed.
31:16Most likely, it was more than that.
31:18As you say, after the 26th amendment,
31:21the judiciary has weakened and the parliament is strong.
31:24So, the parliament has taken back its enclosed space.
31:27So, it was possible that they would have formed a parliamentary committee.
31:32Or they would have made a commission on the parliament.
31:35The investigation that had to be done by the Judicial Commission,
31:40they would have made a parliamentary committee.
31:42Look, judges are not experts in inquiries and investigations.
31:47They don't have experience.
31:48But in the past, there was an option in the inquiry commission.
31:50But who does the inquiry come through?
31:52Through the law enforcement agencies, whose work it is.
31:55So, this work can be done by the parliament.
31:57This is an approach.
31:59Do you want the parliament to be strong?
32:01Or do you want the judiciary to be stronger?
32:04I think the democratic parties should give more freedom to the parliament.
32:10So, they had a solution like this.
32:12But now they have run away.
32:14So, all the weight of running away,
32:18or the failure of these negotiations,
32:20this burden will have to be carried by the Pakistani judiciary.
32:23Because Bani has said it.
32:24Bani has done it.
32:25Bani is in jail.
32:27He is in jail.
32:29You have to consult him.
32:31But you will have to make some decisions yourself.
32:33Right.
32:34Mr. Bansal, this is a clear thing.
32:37No, no.
32:38I am telling you that there is a lot of burden.
32:41You are just a part of it.
32:43Don't get involved with them.
32:45Okay, we are trying to get involved.
32:47But Mr. Chaudhary, the problem is that
32:49when you gave the envelope to the speaker,
32:53that this is our envelope, this is our Charter of Demands.
32:56That envelope is now going out.
32:58People are listening, Mr. Chaudhary.
32:59There are a lot of pictures.
33:00No, no. I am talking about Mr. Umar Yub's envelope.
33:02His Charter of Demands in writing.
33:04So, the government has also given a Charter of Demands.
33:08So, they say that for the sake of justification,
33:10Mr. Pakistan Tehreek-e-Islam would have sat there
33:13in the Joking Committee.
33:15He would have said that we are going to make this.
33:18So, he would have said that this is our demand.
33:20You are not fulfilling it.
33:22So, bye-bye.
33:24We are going.
33:25We will not sit on this.
33:26So, the matter would have ended.
33:28Where did the matter end, Mr. Vijay?
33:29Just listen to my two sentences.
33:32Mr. Khawar.
33:34Last time, he said that if the Commission's
33:36principle, acceptance, or agreement is not met,
33:43then there will be no next session.
33:45He has said two things.
33:47After that, you tell them that you have fled,
33:51you have run away, there is no one there.
33:55If you do not meet their demands,
33:57then from the first day...
33:59He has said that if the Commission is made,
34:01then we will come.
34:03So, you say that we do not want to make a Commission.
34:05We want to make it on 9th May,
34:07on 26th November.
34:09If you want to come, then come.
34:11Later, a second thought came,
34:13or another slap came from somewhere.
34:15Then he said, come, come.
34:17We have prepared our envelope.
34:19He said, your hollow envelopes,
34:21and your envelopes,
34:23congratulations to you.
34:25We do not need it.
34:27Whatever was our strategy,
34:29we went there.
34:31Today, the government has announced
34:33two rounds.
34:35Your opinion has come to light.
34:37The news is that Pakistan Tariq-e-Insan
34:39is going to the streets.
34:41We will talk about this tomorrow as well.
34:43We will go to the break.
34:45After the break, we will talk to Kamal Dilshad,
34:47the former Secretary of the Election Commission.
34:49We will ask him,
34:51that after the 26th November,
34:53the current Chief Election Commissioner
34:55is no more.
34:57Will this be a day-to-day management?
34:59Or will he continue as a full-fledged
35:01Chairman of the Election Commission?
35:03Stay with us.
35:09Mr. Kamal Dilshad,
35:11the former Secretary of the Election Commission
35:13is with us.
35:15Let us ask him about the current
35:17status of the Election Commission.
35:19Mr. Kamal Dilshad, thank you very much.
35:21After the 26th November,
35:23the current Chief Election Commissioner
35:25is no more.
35:27Will this be a day-to-day management?
35:29Or will he continue as a full-fledged
35:31Chairman of the Election Commission?
35:33Stay with us.
35:53After the 26th November,
35:55the current Chief Election Commissioner
35:57is no more.
35:59Will he continue as a full-fledged
36:01Chairman of the Election Commission?
36:03Stay with us.
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