Achieving Half-Earth | #OvercomingOvershoot S1E4 | EarthX - video Dailymotion

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EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/   Enjoy this blast from the past from the EarthX Archives. #OvercomingOvershoot was one of the first shows we produced and aired back in 2020. EarthX Media has grown a lot since then, but we still like to look back on these insightful conversations and see how far we've come.    Dr. Carly Vynne Baker and Dr. Amy Lewis share ways to conserve nature, and why protecting 50% of the planet is urgently needed to address biodiversity loss.   About #OvercomingOvershoot:  #OvercomingOvershoot takes a deep look at the myriad symptoms of ecological overshoot by way of thoughtful conversations with experts and visionaries exploring not only what’s going wrong but also what solution pathways are available to overcome overshoot. Moderated by eco-rockstar, Gary Wockner, this show will serve as an essential hub to connect people from around the world on this most pressing concern.   EarthX  Love Our Planet.  The Official Network of Earth Day.    About Us:  At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.     EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.       EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/    Follow Us:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/earthxmedia/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/earthxmedia  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EarthXMedia/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@earthxmedia  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EarthXMedia      How to watch:   United States:   - Spectrum  - AT&T U-verse (1267)  - DIRECTV (267)  - Philo  - FuboTV  - Plex  - Fire TV    #EarthDay #Environment #Sustainability #EcoFriendly #Conservation #EarthX

Transcript

00:00:00Thank you very much.

00:00:39Hi, welcome to Overcoming Overshoot on EarthX TV.

00:00:42My name is Gary Walkner and I am your host.

00:00:45With me today are two of the leading experts on the world on the topic of how to protect biological diversity in wild nature.

00:00:54Carly Van Baker and Amy Lewis, both are with an effort called Nature Needs Half.

00:01:01Carly is a conservation biologist in the public and private sector with years of experience

00:01:07in the U.S., South America, Asia, and Africa. She specializes in mapping and conserving landscapes

00:01:14and wildlife and also in the overlapping effort to fight climate change. Hi Carly.

00:01:21Hi Gary. Thanks for having me. Amy is the President of Policy and Communications at the

00:01:27WILD Foundation and is helping to lead the program outreach and policy work for Nature Needs Half.

00:01:34Hi Amy. Hi Gary. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Nature Needs Half describes itself

00:01:42as an international community of people getting real about saving nature with the mission to

00:01:49protect and interconnect 50% of Earth by 2030 for the benefit of all life. So I'm going to start

00:01:58us out here, you know, maybe just a little bit of a buzzkill. You know, we're just constantly

00:02:05overwhelmed with articles and scientific reports about how wild nature and biodiversity are

00:02:11under attack. They're being obliterated across the planet. There was just an article came out

00:02:15in The Guardian a couple weeks ago that said one-fifth of the countries on the planet are at

00:02:21risk of ecosystem collapse. And then just two days ago there was a column in Scientific American

00:02:30by United States Senator Tom Udall which in which he said ecosystems worldwide are on the

00:02:37verge of collapse and with them the resources humanity needs to survive. So we're going to

00:02:44launch into a conversation here with these two experts and dig into some of these questions.

00:02:48And we're going to start kind of at a higher level like what is biodiversity? Why does it matter?

00:02:53Why is it collapsing? What's being done to fight the biodiversity crisis? What is Nature Needs Half?

00:03:01And then get into some more complicated questions. Is there any hope of success given that humanity,

00:03:07our species, is proliferating wildly across the planet and consuming more and more and more and

00:03:15more? So let's start with you Carly. Tell us a little bit about your background and your work

00:03:21and how you got into this and a little bit about what conservation biology is.

00:03:26Sure. Thanks Gary. Yeah. Well how I got into it, I think if there was an aha moment for me and how

00:03:36I got into conservation and really being interested in the environment and solving

00:03:42natural resource problems, it was when I grew up in Seattle. And for people that haven't been here,

00:03:53it's a pretty spectacular place in that you can be in a thriving urban metropolitan area,

00:04:00like truly a city, but look out and actually be able to see what is now occupied gray wolf,

00:04:08wolverine, spectacular cougar predator habitat. And then the other direction you look to the west

00:04:19and you can see a sound that has granite populations that are on the edge, but wild

00:04:25orca and salmon. So it's a pretty amazing place to grow up, but like many people took it a little

00:04:31bit for granite, went back east to college. And it wasn't until I brought some visitors

00:04:37back from school to the East Coast, took them up the space needle and they looked down and they

00:04:41said, this is just incredible that you've grown up around here. Do you just spend all your free

00:04:46time out in those mountains and exploring and learning about the place? And I kind of thought

00:04:51to myself, no, I really haven't. And I ended up signing up then to go work for the park service

00:04:57out in the area and got to spend my college summers working not only for the park service

00:05:04and helping educate others about this magnificent place, but then also understanding that the way

00:05:11a park came to be and the forest lands in the U.S. came to be was very much a dramatic story with a

00:05:17lot of politics and a lot of work and a lot of advocacy and community building. And I just thought

00:05:22what an amazing arena to get to combine kind of the love of nature in these incredible places

00:05:29and learning about species and plants and where they are and how they live and interact. But then

00:05:35also kind of the whole people side of this in some ways kind of drama and fascinating history

00:05:41that has been conservation in the U.S. and around the world. And Amy, do you also have an aha moment

00:05:50that you want to share with us? I guess there's a couple of milestones, right? Like I became

00:05:57really fixated, maybe obsessed is a better word, with bats when I was nine years old.

00:06:02Certainly Hurricane Katrina was a kind of watershed moment. And I'm really big into

00:06:09pollinators and bees. So that has definitely contributed. But I think that aha moment

00:06:17happened for me while I was a community organizer working actually on labor and health care reform.

00:06:24And while I was doing this, I met this little boy who was trying to grow up while

00:06:31simultaneously coping with the effects of some early childhood trauma. And he was so painfully

00:06:38shy. It was almost painful being around him, like he was in some kind of emotional prison.

00:06:44So his mom eventually enrolled him in this nature therapy program. And the transformation that

00:06:51occurred was almost overnight. He went from being the super shy, timid little kid into a healthy,

00:06:58happy little boy that seemed excited about living his life for the first time.

00:07:03And I guess even after my work in his area and with his mother stopped, I kept thinking about

00:07:11this kid and all the other children like him who really need wild areas to grow up in and to find

00:07:19themselves in. At the same time, where the destruction of wild nature is accelerating,

00:07:27it's absolutely madness. And I think this is when the consequences of our wanton destruction of

00:07:34nature really dawned on me. Because I realized for the first time, this isn't just a struggle for

00:07:41physical survival. It's a spiritual battle too. And nothing less than the human spirit is at stake.

00:07:50So I think that and a couple of other experiences, it's what brought me into the conservation

00:07:56movement to bring my skills at community organizing and marketing to that effort,

00:08:02and where I now find myself working with the Nature Needs Half Committee.

00:08:10So Carly, let's pretend a little bit like we're in Environmental Studies 101. And the question is

00:08:17what is biodiversity? What is biological diversity? And why does it matter? Can you

00:08:22give us a short one on that? Yeah. So when we think about biological diversity,

00:08:28I mean, in short, it's some diversity or total of life on earth. So everything from the gray whales

00:08:38down to the microbes and living organisms at all scales, that's what we mean by biological

00:08:44diversity. And I think one thing that's really important to think about in biological diversity

00:08:50is that and how it relates to conservation and Nature Needs Half is that and what's so

00:08:57fascinating about it is it's so unevenly distributed. So when you fly around on Google

00:09:03Earth around on the globe and maybe land in one place or explore another or move yourself,

00:09:10if it's not a pandemic, and you're traveling from one location to another, no matter where you end

00:09:15up, the organisms that you'll find in that place are different than in another state or province

00:09:22or ecoregion, as we like to refer to them. So it's the diversity, the differences of all living

00:09:30things on earth. And what part of what's so amazing about it is that they're different everywhere you

00:09:35go on the planet. And so, you know, I know it might seem like a silly question, but why is

00:09:44biodiversity collapsing? Do either one of you or both of you want to take a shot at that one?

00:09:52Carly, you go first. And then the peanut gallery will chime in.

00:09:57It's peanut gallery. Yeah, I mean, just I guess the short answer is basically

00:10:04unsustainable use. And by that, like the number one reason it's actually

00:10:11exploitation of the habitats, the homes for these places and conversion of

00:10:18essentially the places that different organisms and species need to live.

00:10:22So the loss of their habitats or really their homes. And then also there are other drivers like

00:10:28direct overexploitation, overhunting, and then other pressures that we hear about, like climate

00:10:35change, which are forcing them to adapt or to a change in a way that is just not possible for

00:10:41them to keep up with. So essentially, the way that we are using the natural lands and waters

00:10:50and its resources and the species themselves directly is unsustainable, meaning we're using

00:10:56them at a faster rate than they can replenish themselves. And on our show, you know, we call

00:11:02that overshoot, which is, you know, kind of a common term. And there's there's organizations

00:11:07that are that deal with overshoot. Amy, do you have anything you want to add about, you know,

00:11:11from a little bit, I guess you're a little bit more of the policy program, social, cultural

00:11:16perspective in terms of, you know, why biodiversity is collapsing? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I really

00:11:25attribute it to a lack of imagination. I think that if there's one thing that I've observed in

00:11:322020, is that there's an all out offensive against diversity in general, biodiversity and cultural

00:11:42diversity. And I think that this stems from our society's inability to imagine a world with a lot

00:11:52of variety. We have we have these notions about we look out and we see land and we assume it's

00:11:57empty land and we immediately populate it with what is familiar and known to us.

00:12:03And we fail to imagine what's already there and how it's already there is supporting us.

00:12:09So I think that biodiversity is is being lost at this point in time as we become more aware

00:12:17about why we need it, why it's important, how we're embedded in it. I think it's it's the

00:12:24loss is happening because we have failed to imagine how we can coexist with this biological diversity.

00:12:33And let's talk a little bit about nature needs half. And, you know, Carly, from your perspective,

00:12:43you know, one of the questions that comes up when you talk about nature needs half is like,

00:12:47what does it mean to actually protect nature? And, you know, there's we're going to get into

00:12:52some of the legislation that's being proposed right now. What's going on in Colorado? What's

00:12:56going on in California? A few other things. But just the concept of protecting nature seems to be

00:13:02you know, it's not clear what exactly that means. Does that mean people are in it? People are out of

00:13:06it? That means we're intertwined together. How do you look at that as a conservation biologist?

00:13:13Yeah, well, I'll definitely give you my biologist viewpoint on that. And then Amy will come in,

00:13:18I'm sure, with a more colorful and interesting perspective. But as a biologist, and this isn't

00:13:24true for everyone who's working in conservation, as I would say, but as a as a biologist, you know,

00:13:30we think of living systems and organisms, and, you know, whether it's individuals or species,

00:13:38they're always having to adapt and change. And so when I think of or I hear preservation,

00:13:47what we're really talking about in preservation or conservation is conserving the ability for

00:13:55for these systems and species and people within them to evolve and adapt or persist. And so when

00:14:05people say, well, preserve, you can't keep everything exactly as it is, it's not about

00:14:10keeping everything exactly as it is today. But it's conserving the ability for species and systems

00:14:19and habitats to adapt and evolve and persist over time. So yes, it's sometimes about drawing

00:14:30lines about where industrial development can or cannot go or certain human activities are permitted

00:14:37or not, absolutely. But it's not that we are saying that these things will not change. We

00:14:44know they will. They're not influenced by humans, we know they are, but that there needs to be an

00:14:50ability for them to have, you know, different weather events occur, climate change occur,

00:14:57different levels of human use and interaction, but still be able to persist over time.

00:15:07And then in terms with respect for people, I know at least, again, you know, there's

00:15:14differing views and there probably are some places in the world where, you know, people should be

00:15:20visitors for whatever reasons, but in general, conservation at the scale that we're talking about,

00:15:27like global conservation, is very much about being part and parcel with human communities.

00:15:34And so again, it's not preserving these places from people, but preserving them with the local

00:15:42communities and people who live and are a very important part of the management and

00:15:49natural history of those places. From a scientific perspective, Carly, is there a reason why it's

00:15:55half or why isn't it 30 or 75 percent? You know, as you know, there's a bill coming out

00:16:02in the process called 30 by 30, and then there's another one like 50 by 50. And then, of course,

00:16:08you know, your guys' program together, when you go and you sign your global deal for nature,

00:16:11which we'll talk about, I think you're talking about 50 percent by 2030. And so, you know,

00:16:18give us a little bit of sort of the background of the science in terms of like how you pick

00:16:22regions that you think need to be protected and how much needs to be protected. Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:28And the answer is, believe it or not, yes, it's all of those things. It's 50 percent and 25 percent

00:16:33and 75 percent, which sounds illogical, but there's a few ways of answering that. I mean,

00:16:40one is like the direct answer to why 50 percent. Amy will weigh in on some other options, but from

00:16:47a scientific point of view, there is increasing and there has been evidence really over the last

00:16:52couple of decades building that that in general or on average is about what each ecosystem needs.

00:17:02If you are setting objectives that are about about conserving the diversity of life that

00:17:08it's there, conserving the biological diversity of that place and conserving ecosystem services

00:17:14and now increasingly making sure that we're stabilizing the climate. So scientists have

00:17:20looked across studies, across ecosystems plans and found that in general, it tends to point to

00:17:27on average 50 percent per system. But why I said yes, but is that because biological diversity is

00:17:35so unevenly distributed in some places, you need more like 70, 80 percent even in the Amazon

00:17:43maintained. In other places, you don't need as much. So maybe 25 percent is is the answer. So

00:17:49while this is a global target and we'll get into the policies and why some of those that

00:17:54you alluded to, I think it's important to have a big 50 percent goal like we have a two degrees

00:18:00or a one point five degrees similarly for climate. At the end of the day, like with the Paris Climate

00:18:08Accord, this is a big global target that is up to local and regional and national governments

00:18:16then to to implement and decide what's appropriate for their region. But we've so we've said this in

00:18:22part because of the science, in part because that while they're not the way it gets done,

00:18:26having those big targets we feel like is important and useful. And then there's also a genesis of

00:18:34really the beginning of all of this came out of traditional wisdom and indigenous communities and

00:18:40what they had been telling. They were really the founders of Nature Needs Half and champions for

00:18:46this. And I'll let Amy speak to that because you were you're a little bit more close to kind of

00:18:51the origin of of where Nature Needs Half came from that I think really then the science is piled on

00:18:57to support, you know, a decade later. From my background, land use and how we manage that

00:19:04doesn't have to be scientific. It's best when it is and when we're using science. But so many policy

00:19:10decisions are made without science that on how to use the land that that there's this kind of

00:19:16recognition in political science that land management doesn't have to be scientific, but it

00:19:21will always be political because there will always be people's interests at play. And when you the

00:19:29definition of politics is essentially who gets what, when, where, and why. So who gets to use the land,

00:19:37who's on it, who's benefiting, how we're using it, all of these are political political decisions

00:19:43that I truly believe must be informed by science and also by principles and ethics.

00:19:51So the the biggest question in answer to to your question to directly answer it, the biggest

00:19:57question I encounter is is what does looking what does protecting half look like and what's going

00:20:04to happen to all of the people who use the land right now? And I have I have two answers to that.

00:20:12One is a contemporary answer and one is my approximation of a traditional Indigenous answer

00:20:18because I'm not an Indigenous person. I can only repeat what I've heard and I'm not going to be

00:20:22able to do that perfectly. But the the the first the first answer is, you know, Wild, the organization

00:20:29I work for, we're a wilderness protection organization. We work to protect wilderness

00:20:34around the world. So that we very much recognize the need for drawing an area around some place,

00:20:41drawing a line around some places and allowing nature to do its thing in those places. That being

00:20:47said, the Wild Foundation also runs the Mali Elephant Program. And in the Mali Elephant Program,

00:20:54we're protecting an area the size of Switzerland, eight million acres. And we're doing so while

00:21:02400,000 people live in that area. And not only do we not want to see the people go,

00:21:11but we're working with the people because those those people who live there help provide the

00:21:19institutional structure, the wise management of the land, they help prevent criminal elements from

00:21:24coming in, you empty that landscape, and suddenly you're going to get a bunch of poachers, a bunch

00:21:28of wildlife traffickers who come in. But it's the stable populations that are there that we're

00:21:34working with that are preventing that from happening. So for me, the question that I

00:21:39encounter all the time is what the impact is going to be on the human population. And like Carly said,

00:21:47what we're striving for is to keep the ecological services intact, and to live in harmony with the

00:21:52land. And this is consistent with with traditional wisdom and indigenous knowledge. For them,

00:21:59this is a question of reciprocity. And the indigenous founders that was founded by

00:22:06contemporary scientists and conservationists and indigenous leaders of nature needs half.

00:22:12So this is really for us, it's a question of reciprocity, and just establishing a just and

00:22:19healthy relationship with ourselves, with the future and with wild nature and the rest of life

00:22:25on this planet. Yeah, I like that definition a lot. Because you know, as you know, in the

00:22:31United States, I think, and in sort of Western conservation biology, we talk about this concept

00:22:37of ecosystem services. But I think the way you described it, maybe brings it home a little bit

00:22:43more, because otherwise, it feels sort of, you know, bureaucratized and scientized, like we're,

00:22:48like there's an exchange of goods and services and money going back and forth and something like

00:22:52that. So I think that helps a lot. Tell us, you know, and you've gotten into this a little bit

00:22:57about what nature needs half does. And I bet you both do some of this, you know, in terms of

00:23:02outreach, reaching out to NGOs, to governments, to other environmental organizations, like you're

00:23:08trying to bring in like a global community, and not just scientists, but of people of advocates

00:23:14of governments of from various walks of life, right, in order to, to move this concept forward.

00:23:21And I just wanted, because you asked me, what does the nature needs half structure looks like?

00:23:25So I'll answer that. And then I'll let Carly take away with the rest of it.

00:23:30Um, nature needs half was deliberately set up as an open architecture movement.

00:23:36The founders pride themselves on not having an organization, but having a number of groups that

00:23:44endorse the idea and that participate in influencing it. Because we very much wanted the idea to be

00:23:52embedded in organizations and businesses and governments around the world. We didn't want

00:23:58to be proprietary about it. And we felt that this open architecture approach would be a better way

00:24:04of doing that instead of saying, oh, we're the nature needs half organization. So that, that

00:24:12allows us to accomplish that, while simultaneously creating somewhat of an unorthodox structure,

00:24:19but one that facilitates, I think, the rapid spread of this idea, versus just keeping it contained in

00:24:25one organization. Carly, Amy just mentioned or talked about sort of the effort with elephants

00:24:33in Mali. And I wonder if you have another, you know, more, um, also kind of specific example,

00:24:40I know you've worked a lot with wolves in Brazil and, you know, and how that animal lives on the

00:24:48landscape and interacts with the people and the politics and, and how you try to decide where it

00:24:54can live and how you decide to protect it. Is that a good example to talk about? Or is there

00:24:58a sort of another one that's, that's better that you're working with? No, I'd love to, hey, any

00:25:04excuse to talk about the maned wolves of Brazil. Yeah, so for folks who may not have heard of or

00:25:11seen this animal, the maned wolf that you're referring to is a, not truly a wolf, but definitely

00:25:17a member of the canid family. So a wild dog of the central South America grasslands. So if you

00:25:26picture the Amazon in the northern part of South America, before, south of that are these high

00:25:32plateau grasslands. The Cejado biome is a major area there. And it's a fascinating area. A lot of

00:25:41the rivers that eventually form and flood the Amazon originate in this region. And I got to

00:25:47spend several years while working on my PhD in the Brazilian part of this area. Amazing country,

00:25:54amazing people. A lot of this landscape is really remote. Brasilia, the capital of Brazil was kind

00:26:04of placed in the middle of what was considered nowhere at that time, far from other cities.

00:26:10And you drive out from there many, many hours and, and you're in these remote grasslands,

00:26:16which are astonishing in the sense that a lot of them look like, some of your viewers may be

00:26:23more familiar with the grasslands of the United States, where you can drive for half a day and

00:26:28see essentially monoculture crops. And some of this region, again, just directly bordering the

00:26:35Amazon looks like that, actually, you'll drive through hours of soybeans or sugarcane crops,

00:26:43mixed with ranch land, and a few national parks, and a lot of large private farms, which are

00:26:52mandated by the federal government of Brazil, to depending on the state actually have their own

00:26:58set aside. So on private lands, they have to leave 30 or 40 or in other states near the Amazon 80%

00:27:07actually of their farm as intact habitat. The region I was in was a national park,

00:27:13well protected grassland habitat, relatively small, but still home to Maine wolves, jaguars,

00:27:20giant armadillos, giant anteaters, just amazing creatures, and these large, you know, space hungry,

00:27:29wide ranging critters that need not only that part, but the landscape as a whole.

00:27:34And the reason it's so relevant is because here you had not only a habitat kind of island,

00:27:39if you look at this place from space, you'd see the park and its boundary really distinct from

00:27:45space. But all these creatures were there not only because of the park, but because there was

00:27:50enough habitat on the private land surrounding the park, and really these buffer areas and

00:27:56corridors, and, you know, very imperfectly preserved areas of land that allowed them to be

00:28:04there. And so it was really a, the work I did was spending hours a day kind of walking and surveying

00:28:11through farmlands, ranch lands, these agricultural fields, as well as the park, and just learning

00:28:18about how these species were using and moving through the landscape and thinking about how,

00:28:24you know, even these really species that have demanding needs in terms of space and

00:28:30being conserved from overuse or hunting or whatever else could be in a landscape that was

00:28:37also helping to feed a large portion of the world. You know, Brazil is a major exporter of

00:28:43soy because of this region, with a little bit of kind of care and attention to conserving some

00:28:49riparian areas and creating corridors. Again, a place where people are there and active on the

00:28:56landscape and producing food and able to have all of these creatures because of a land policy,

00:29:04and a pretty ambitious one. Yeah, let's zoom out a little bit. You know,

00:29:10one of the efforts that you're involved in is the global safety net analysis. And I spent

00:29:16a little time on your website looking at that. And, you know, I think, and I'm going to kind of

00:29:22tee up here for a question. But, you know, the concept that we can not only protect landscapes,

00:29:29protect biodiversity, and also try to stabilize the climate at the same time.

00:29:37So tell us how those things tie together and sort of what the global safety net analysis is.

00:29:43Yeah, so the global safety net analysis was really a first attempt at, what do you guys mean in terms

00:29:54of where are you talking about nature needs half? And it's not the way, but it's a way to achieve

00:30:01that. And I don't know why, I think it's our training as scientists, but often I think we're

00:30:07trained to be reductionist and to ask for, or you probably learn with your big game management,

00:30:14but it's like, what are minimal viable populations? Or what is the least amount of

00:30:19habitat that we can conserve in order to maintain X, Y, or Z? And with nature needs half and sort of

00:30:28a transition towards more ambitious targets, I think part of what we had to do was convince

00:30:35first our own community of conservationists and scientists, like that this is even possible.

00:30:41People are so used to, you know, right now, 15% of the terrestrial realm is what we have kind of

00:30:47in reserves and protected areas. And so they're so used to these smaller kind of goals and targets.

00:30:55And so part of what we needed to do is say like, look, it is possible, actually, here's what

00:30:59remains. And so we wanted to map what turned out to be about 50% of the Earth's remaining

00:31:09terrestrial habitat that's either intact or semi-degraded, meaning restorations, you know,

00:31:16very feasible there. So part of it was looking at where can you achieve this? Can you achieve it?

00:31:22Where can you achieve it? And so we brought together all the information from various

00:31:27organizations and research papers that had said, like, here are the areas that you need to

00:31:32conserve the diversity of life on Earth. Here are the world's remaining intact and wilderness areas.

00:31:39And we pulled these all together into a global map for the terrestrial areas of the Earth so

00:31:44that we could show, okay, here, enough habitat does remain. Here's how you protect the diversity

00:31:52and abundance of life on Earth. And then for those of us that spend time thinking about these

00:31:57biological diversity, we're not surprised to learn that the overlap of when you look at,

00:32:04for example, maps of total carbon biomass, so places in the Earth that are really good at

00:32:10storing carbon, which is important for climate stabilization, the overlap is so strong of where

00:32:18you conserve biological diversity and where you would want to conserve or manage land for

00:32:24climate stabilization, that overlap is so strong because this diversity matters. The complexity

00:32:32and intricacies of forests and below ground soils and everything, where those places

00:32:38harbor a lot of life, they also are really good at storing carbon. So this paper, one, was an

00:32:46attempt to show nature needs half is feasible. There's enough remaining habitat there. Two, to show

00:32:54where it might be done and how it could be done in terms of important places for conserving life.

00:33:00And then to tie that to climate stabilization and show that, in fact, in order to stabilize the

00:33:08climate, we need to conserve these areas. And in order to conserve these areas, we need to stabilize

00:33:13the climate. So, you know, I just I brought this up at the beginning. Senate Resolution 32, which is

00:33:19kind of interesting. It talks about 30 by 30 and also 50 by 50. So saving 30 percent of the United

00:33:26States landscape and marine habitat by 2030 and 50 percent. It also brings up the 50 percent of the

00:33:33world by 50, which is just amazing. And then also here in Colorado, I live in Colorado and I

00:33:40think you do, too, Amy, that they just proposed a 30 by 30 concept. And then Governor Newsom in

00:33:48California just last week or two weeks ago came up with a 30 by 30 concept. And so, you know, it's not

00:33:54just a scientific, esoteric phenomenon. There's actually a movement building to try to turn it

00:34:01into policy and make it happen. So kind of transition us and tell us a little bit more about

00:34:06that kind of stuff. And, you know, what's going on? Yeah. So I think I think we're beginning to

00:34:12see a sea change here. For 10 years now, we've been in the U.N. decade on biodiversity, which

00:34:19I'd like to talk about briefly later. And it's largely failed, largely because it did not succeed

00:34:29at one of its objectives of making the global public aware of the importance and need for

00:34:35biodiversity. But now in the last couple of years, and I think it's because we are beginning to

00:34:44really see the impacts of the climate crisis, that that at least some leaders are becoming very aware

00:34:52of the need to preserve nature. And I absolutely applaud Governor, Senator Udall and Governor

00:35:00Newsom and the conservation community in Colorado for working on this. And I would like to just

00:35:07throw out one question, too. And that is this, because I'm always I'm an ambitious woman and I

00:35:14always love it when I see people in conservation be ambitious, too. We right now have approximately

00:35:22a little less but approximately half of the planet still intact. And in Colorado, we certainly

00:35:30have approximately half of our landscapes intact. And if we're shooting for 30 percent by 2030,

00:35:38my question is, why not? Isn't it more feasible to do 50 percent by 2030? Simply because

00:35:47what's going to happen in those intervening two decades between 2030 and 2050?

00:35:52There's potentially going to be a lot of development. In fact, if you look at the trajectory,

00:35:57we're on track to add 25 million kilometers of road to the planet by 2050. That's enough road to

00:36:04go to the moon and back 32 times. We're also set to double the urban square footage on the planet.

00:36:13And as we're doing that, wouldn't it be nice if we were planning around 50 percent, not 30 percent?

00:36:20Because I think it's going to be a heck of a lot more economically feasible to simply protect and

00:36:26set aside what we have now versus having to go back 30 years from now and try an attempt to

00:36:32restore a bunch of it, a lot of which we won't be able to restore because there will be have been

00:36:37so many species that we will have lost as a result of that. Tell us a little bit about and I was on

00:36:43your website and I clicked through to the Global Deal for Nature. It gives people there's a petition

00:36:48there and it gives people a chance to sign it. So what does that mean? What does that do?

00:36:54This petition is a place that helps us bring everybody who signs the petition into the room

00:37:01with us when we're negotiating and when we're persuading others, both business leaders and

00:37:07governments, to start thinking seriously about half. I mentioned the U.N. decade on biodiversity

00:37:14earlier and that it had largely failed because it had failed on expanding public attention to

00:37:20biodiversity. And I want to ask the question, why is it conservation should care about this level of

00:37:26awareness? I think for decades conservation has tended to be the bailiwick of scientists

00:37:33and natural science experts and not so much social science and public awareness and

00:37:41marketing and things like that tend to get shunted to the side. But here's the deal. In political

00:37:47science we know that the scope of the audience determines the outcome of the conflict. And right

00:37:54now when people are paying attention to conservation issues they tend to be narrow

00:38:00interests. The conservationists on one side and industrial interests on the other. And I guarantee

00:38:07the conservation sector is not going to out special interests in this.

00:38:14What our strategy needs to be is to expand from the more institutional expert leadership approach

00:38:21that we're taking, because we're not winning, and to begin to expand into the public and start

00:38:28expanding that audience, expanding the scope of conflict, so that we have a fighting chance

00:38:35against the narrow interests that we're oftentimes pitted against.

00:38:39And I think the global deal for nature and the petition that's associated with it

00:38:43is everybody's opportunity to be a part of that conversation and to be a part of the movement

00:38:50that actually pushes us to over the top and gets us to a place where our leaders in the private

00:38:57and public sector are not just willing to consider this but are enthusiastic about protecting half

00:39:03the planet. Carly, Ruspa? Yeah, thank goodness for Amy and people like her, because I'm pretty

00:39:12good at saying what I think needs to be done and how to get it done is a whole nother can of worms.

00:39:19So I'm really appreciative for people like Amy and her colleagues that take up the scientific

00:39:25recommendations and turn them into these positions. But really what the recommendation was,

00:39:32was that we have a global deal for climate known as the Paris Accord, and we really need

00:39:41a global deal for nature, because part of the climate solution is about technology and carbon

00:39:49sequestration and all these other solutions, and part of it is about nature. But if you're going

00:39:55to save the diversity of life, you're not going to do that just through things that you might do

00:40:01to meet climate targets. And so we really need an equal and mutually supportive deal for nature,

00:40:10and so that's really what the global deal for nature was trying to do, to say here are the

00:40:16things you need. You know, it's nature needs half and you need these supporting policies. And I

00:40:22think what's interesting is part of the reason that was written were the idea we put out there

00:40:29in an earlier scientific paper, and a number of economists and business leaders actually picked up

00:40:35on it, and they said like, we hear you, we get this from actually a business perspective, and

00:40:42you actually need us to pay for this. And here's how from kind of our business perspective,

00:40:49it makes sense. Like we recognize we need intact nature to continue to work, so we can be part of

00:40:56this. And I think what's interesting is a global deal for nature, or global targets like that,

00:41:04it really broadens the tent. So you have, you know, local communities, indigenous communities,

00:41:08the conservation sector, but also in, you know, business and industry leaders out there saying like,

00:41:16we actually want this too. We want some clear boundaries about where we should be, and where

00:41:21we shouldn't be, and where we need to develop, or where go places for us as well. So I think it does,

00:41:28it does a number of things. And like with the Paris Accord, kind of sets the high bar,

00:41:35and then we'll, implementation will be up to, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of

00:41:40people around the world to be a part of it. But, you know, I mean, how do you, you know, how do you,

00:41:48how do you, how are you visualizing or operationalizing the concept of trying to

00:41:54pull enough people together to force yourselves into rooms, and to get, you know, policymakers

00:42:02to pay attention? Because, you know, and, but use the, you know, the actual examples that are

00:42:06happening. We mentioned, you know, here in the United States with Governor Newsom and Senator

00:42:10Udall. I mean, there are some people paying attention, for sure. But, you know, how do we

00:42:16sort of kind of get a little over the top, or do that thing that the, you know, the UN

00:42:22Decade of Biodiversity didn't do, which is bring it more to the attention of the public?

00:42:28Thank you for asking that question. I really wanted you to ask that question.

00:42:33First off, 10 years ago, when WILD launched Nature Needs Half, I guess it was 11 years ago now,

00:42:39in 2009, we received letters from all over the world from pretty prominent leaders. And we now

00:42:48have some of those letters, by the way, framed in our offices. But we received letters that

00:42:54actually told us, I mean, this is a quote, of course, I privately support Nature Needs Half.

00:43:01But if I were to publicly come out and say that, I would be laughed at, and you will be too. And

00:43:07that was from a fairly prominent conservation leader. So a lot has changed in the last 11 years,

00:43:14because we have businesses, we have senators, we have governors, who are talking about half

00:43:20in the context of getting 2050 and 30% is a milestone, but we're really shooting for half.

00:43:26And that's amazing. But I think in order to break through and make this truly a bipartisan movement,

00:43:35and to expand it around the world, especially in some very difficult countries to work in,

00:43:40like the BRICS, Brazil isn't doing so hot. Russia is actually the wildest planet on the,

00:43:45or wildest country on the planet. But there's reason to hope there. And there's also reasons

00:43:52for concern. To break into other countries and to other publics, we're going to need to prioritize

00:44:00storytelling, myth-making and marketing in a way that I think that we haven't done as a sector yet.

00:44:06And that's going to depend one on conservation leaders recognizing that and giving a platform

00:44:13for really moving beyond science communication, really moving into the realm of storytelling and

00:44:19myth-making and marketing. But also from philanthropy and from other interested folks

00:44:28who want to invest in biodiversity in the future. It's going to require a lot of funding to do well

00:44:35and it's high time we do it because those constituencies are going to give us the

00:44:42fuel and the power we need to persuade others to join us. But you know, Carly, in your work,

00:44:49I mean, when I was doing science, it's been a couple decades ago when I was at the university

00:44:54doing it. There was just starting to be more, there at the time I think it was the Aldo Leopold

00:44:59Fellowship that was like training scientists how to talk to the media and the public so we could

00:45:05start getting these conversations and, you know, more in the public and more in the media and make

00:45:10them more relevant every day. It seems like more of that's going on now than used to be. Is that

00:45:15true? And what other things are you involved in? No, I think you're right. And I think that

00:45:21you're also right in terms of the point of needing to speak to policymakers, but also

00:45:28communities and help them tell their stories and tell each other's stories. I think very directly

00:45:34related to getting to half or more protected. You know, right now, if we're at 15% globally,

00:45:42I think we can maybe get to 30% with these policies and kind of arm twisting of governments or

00:45:50different countries realizing like the opportunity that they have and why it makes sense in doing

00:45:55kind of national designations. But I think the next 20 or more percent that's really needed is

00:46:02going to be that very roll up your sleeves, you know, work with the communities, get out the maps,

00:46:08figure out how and where we're going to do this type work. And I think that communities telling

00:46:18each other their stories about how this is happening and why it's happening

00:46:23is a really important part of that. And I also think that part of the storytelling in my mind

00:46:32needs to be doing a better job of how to be relevant to all stakeholders. I think in particular

00:46:41about a lot of, you know, people in their 20s and 30s right now and a lot of the

00:46:48emotions and enthusiasm around social justice movements and how to make this sort of work,

00:46:54which can feel really removed, relevant and kind of bring the passion towards that. And I think

00:47:03again, because it will rely, like success will rely on doing this everywhere on the planet with

00:47:13people and as part of the solutions, I think, and it can mean a lot of positive outcomes for groups

00:47:20that will otherwise be further disadvantaged or further harmed by changing climate and severe

00:47:27weather events or loss of clean air and water. I think there's a lot of opportunities to not only

00:47:34tell our stories, like you say, but do kind of true engagement that is meaningful to different

00:47:42groups of people. And I think that is where while half, you know, nature needs half is already really

00:47:48big and feels ambitious. It's really actually talking about all of the earth. It's not setting

00:47:56aside half for people and half that's not for people. You know, we probably need half that is

00:48:05not industrial use and set aside from that, but we probably really need to be talking about

00:48:10sustainably managing more like 75% of the earth. And again, that's going to involve a lot of people,

00:48:17provide a lot of jobs, make people's lives a lot better in terms of just their access to the

00:48:26environment and the benefits it provides. And so I'm actually optimistic, I think, about nature

00:48:33needs half and these ambitious targets because it does require bringing so many people into the,

00:48:39into the tent. And then I think Carly mentioned this too, you know, we've all watched this, you

00:48:44know, fascinating change happen with the social justice movement in the United States, especially,

00:48:49but also around the world somewhat too. And I've been, you know, just watching it so closely

00:48:55in terms of, you know, how it's changing the public dialogue around this, you know, specific

00:49:00thing, social justice and especially race relations. And how do we expand that around the concept of,

00:49:05you know, ecological justice and biodiversity, because it can happen, you know, we're seeing

00:49:10these dramatic changes happen here in 2020 that we've never seen before, you know, in my life.

00:49:14And so that's kind of more in your, in your professional, you know, package there, Amy.

00:49:21So give us some of your thoughts on that. Yeah, well, I mean, where to start? And there's,

00:49:28there's a bunch of different layers here. But, you know, we need, and first off, it was music

00:49:34to my ears listening to Carly talk about community organizing, because oftentimes I

00:49:39focus on on communications, because that's what we have the resources for. And we don't even really

00:49:44have the resources to do the types of communications we need. But that's what we have the resources for

00:49:49right now. But we really need to get into community organizing. And when we do, you know,

00:49:55part of a successful message is the message, but a big part of it is also the messenger.

00:50:02And there are a lot of messengers out there. There, you know, we have this concept of NIMBYism,

00:50:09not in my backyard, right. And it oftentimes is associated being a negative, because it's like,

00:50:17oh, well, I'm, I don't want my backyard polluted. So just put that polluting industry over there,

00:50:23not near me. But honestly, I think we could leverage NIMBYism if we empowered everybody

00:50:30around the world to be a NIMBYist. If everybody had a voice, if everybody had influence, if

00:50:37everybody had power, if everybody was, was empowered with awareness, and with the tools

00:50:43that they needed to influence the land policies around them. And everybody was saying, not in my

00:50:51backyard, where would we put pollution? Where would we put the destroyed landscape? Nowhere.

00:50:58And so I truly believe that diversity is the key, not just to saving life on earth,

00:51:08earth and its ecological functionality. But in terms of expanding this movement,

00:51:14and to making it, to making half happen, to actually achieving that, we absolutely must

00:51:23be a diverse movement if we're going to succeed. And we must be working everywhere in all communities.

00:51:29If people are angry now, like imagine generations from now, if there are no wild lands or intact

00:51:37habitats left, if you know, you want to explain to your kids that sorry, yeah, there were elephants,

00:51:43you know, when I was your age, and now there aren't. Like, I just feel like if, if you want

00:51:49to talk about a just and prosperous and opportunities for, for now, or for, you know,

00:51:55the people who are concerned about social justice now, like there's no way that you can have those

00:52:00things without a healthy environment. And then if you want to extend that to future generations,

00:52:07and think about like, why should we make all the decisions now? Like, what if conserving half is

00:52:12actually just about providing future generations of humans opportunities to decide how they want

00:52:18to use these landscapes? And then you can extend the voices even further to, you know, what about

00:52:24all these, these critters that essentially don't have a voice like that's, we're trying to provide

00:52:29them opportunities as well. So I think there's a lot to be learned from, you know, the current

00:52:34events and, and how that can be applied and extended. And there has been some critiques,

00:52:40you know, there was a study that came out by the World Wildlife Fund recently, and a guy named

00:52:44Robin Maynard, who works for Population Matters, came out and said, it was a dereliction of duty

00:52:51for this environmental organization not to address population growth, at the same time that they

00:52:57talked about the threat to endangered species and wildlife across this, across the planet. So,

00:53:04you know, I guess real quickly, how do you guys in your work and your organizations deal with this,

00:53:09this juggernaut of population growth?

00:53:13I think where we, where at least I approach it from, and where the Wildlife Foundation approaches

00:53:19it from is the idea of justice. And I think we're too late in the game to not just come out and say

00:53:26it. And that is, yeah, the Earth is too crowded. But it's not just population that's the problem

00:53:33with that, it's consumption. And if we don't address the problem of consumption simultaneous

00:53:40to the problem of population, I don't think we're not, we're going to get to the solution.

00:53:46And there recently, there was an Oxfam report, just a few weeks ago, that said, you know,

00:53:52the top 1% on the planet produced as much carbon emission as the bottom 50%.

00:54:01So I don't think, you know, we significantly reduce the population somehow. And we're

00:54:07simultaneously just consuming more and more and more and living thoughtlessly,

00:54:11that we're going to get to the solution we need. And the fact is that if population,

00:54:18if population policies become an opportunity to enhance agency, especially for women,

00:54:24if it becomes a choice, where they get to choose having more education than they're afforded now,

00:54:33and because of that, they're choosing not to have kids, if we're basically making life richer and

00:54:38more abundant for people through this process, versus coming down with restrictions, I think

00:54:46that not only are we going to be more successful, but that it's going to become a major turning

00:54:53point for improving lives and improving equality and justice around the world.

00:54:59Carly?

00:55:00Yeah, and I guess, you know, the population issue for me is always one to keep a careful eye on,

00:55:08because it is so intricately linked and important for how we're using natural resources,

00:55:13and therefore able to conserve others. On the other hand, I feel like we don't often

00:55:20do a very good job of talking about where we've had successes. And if you look at,

00:55:27you know, trends for people in general, they, they tend to be good, like we hear a lot of bad news.

00:55:35But literacy, you know, if you look at curves of like people that are becoming literate,

00:55:41it's improving poverty, poverty is going down, population is actually one that is dropped at

00:55:47incredible rates. And while there's a few places in the world that it's going to be really

00:55:53challenging to overcome the population growth rates, if you look at it, you know, region by

00:55:59region around the world, it's actually incredible how quickly we've dropped the population rates.

00:56:07Now, it's still going to grow, because so many people are young, and they're still going to be

00:56:11challenges. But I think that what gives me optimism is that the things that we need to do

00:56:19are things that are, like Amy said, kind of empowerment, and helping people realize their

00:56:25full potential. And so it's not really an argument that we need to win or lose,

00:56:30like, should we be for or against population control? So I guess that gives me, you know,

00:56:37both the graphs and the data about what's happened and how quickly and the fact that if that, as we

00:56:43need to tackle population concerns, that the answers are, doesn't require us winning or losing

00:56:51a population debate, gives me hope. You know, we call this, we call this show overcoming

00:57:00overshoot. And, you know, one of the things we try to wrap up with are some concepts and ideas

00:57:08and maybe some pep talks about overcoming the problems. You know, I think both of you are

00:57:13working on, on how to overcome overshoot and how to, you know, get at this issue of 30 by 30 or 50

00:57:20by 50. But, you know, do you have any sort of closing thoughts about, you know, how to inspire

00:57:29more people to be involved, how to inspire young people, especially, you know, kind of what I was

00:57:34sort of, you know, inkling at a little earlier, we've just seen this profound movement around

00:57:39social justice in our society. Like, how do we get people that excited about, you know, saving nature

00:57:45too? So, you know, go ahead and tell me, tell me how you're going to do this for us.

00:57:52I think a great reason for optimism is because despite, so I mentioned all the trajectories

00:57:59that are really good for people. If you look at the graphs and curves for nature, it's the opposite,

00:58:04right? So there's a lot of reason you said, you mentioned all the articles that are bad.

00:58:10But I think most of us, the reason this is happening is not because anyone wants it to,

00:58:16well, maybe a few people, but the vast majority of people don't want to be destroying nature

00:58:21or living unsustainably. It's that as we go about our daily lives, we make very rational decisions

00:58:28to drive a car, to have children that end up having these effects. And I think as a scientist

00:58:36and diving into the world of nature needs half, which felt ambitious and kind of out there, I did

00:58:41a lot of research and kind of looking at what is this even possible? Like, what does this mean for

00:58:46people? And the truth is there are so many reasons that this is one possible. If we look at

00:58:55food production potential, we look at our energy needs, we look at where population's going, there's

00:59:01just so much evidence that this is actually possible. So that's part of it. And then the other,

00:59:09probably more important part is that I think if we all step back and kind of away from the

00:59:15individual studies and what's happening and envision the world that we want to live in,

00:59:21I think all of us would like a world with, you know, more wild and abundant nature, or even if

00:59:27it's not at our door, just knowing that it exists. And so I think it's about helping people create

00:59:33the world that they want. Places that are, have intact habitat and have more habitat,

00:59:41tend to draw people and be more economically prosperous. Like we know it's good for people,

00:59:47we know it's good for economies, we know people want it and we know it's necessary. So I guess

00:59:52all of that, because it's possible and because it's what people want, I think we should be able

00:59:58to figure this out. I'm in conservation because I love nature and because I believe in the power

01:00:05that nature has to heal us. And I also believe in the power of people to mobilize and to change

01:00:17the world for the better. And right now we're at a crossroads in our history, one that I don't think

01:00:24we've ever been at before. And that is we get to choose. We get to choose if our civilization

01:00:32survives or not. We get to choose if life on this planet survives, at least life as we know it.

01:00:40And we also get to find out who we really are as a species. Because of that choice that we get to

01:00:47make, we get to find out if we have the grit, if we have the determination, and if we have the

01:00:53imagination to make this happen. I believe we do. And I believe that if people are empowered with

01:01:01the knowledge that this is a choice they have now, and that it's something that we all get to

01:01:06influence and all get to participate in, in essentially deciding the identity of the human

01:01:12species and the survival of life on Earth, I think that's going to really excite them. And I know I'm

01:01:18excited to be in this movement and I hope that others become excited too and join us here.

01:01:25I want to thank Amy Lewis and Carly Van Baker for both being on the show today. Two of the world's

01:01:30leading experts in protecting biodiversity and wild nature and trying to save this planet. Again,

01:01:37my name is Gary Walkner. I'm the host of Overcoming Overshoot and you are watching EarthX TV.

Achieving Half-Earth | #OvercomingOvershoot S1E4 | EarthX

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