LIVE Patriots Beat: Reacting to Jerod Mayo firing and Robert Kraft Press Conference

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Join 98.5 The Sports Hub's Alex Barth and Pats Pulpit's Brian Hines live for the latest episode of Patriots Beat. They dive into Jerod Mayo's firing, Robert Kraft's press conference, and the Patriots’ request to interview Ben Johnson.   ************************************************ Patriots Content Brought to you by.... 💰 Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS Download the app today and use Code CLNS at PrizePicks.com/CLNS & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!  🎫 Gametime - https://gametime.co Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Terms apply. What time is it? Gametime!

Transcript

00:00:00All right, everyone, welcome back into another live edition of the Patriots Beat Podcast

00:00:29here on the CLNS Media Network, presented by our wonderful friends over at Price Picks

00:00:34and Game Time.

00:00:35It is Brian Hines, back as always with Alex Barth, and what a last day it has been in

00:00:41one Patriot place.

00:00:42I wanted to say multiple days, because it feels like it's been multiple days at this

00:00:46point.

00:00:47It's been like 25 hours.

00:00:48But it's, yeah, just about 25, 26 hours, because we had, I don't even know if you want to call

00:00:53it a football game at Gillette Stadium yesterday.

00:00:56They kept score.

00:00:57It went into the record books.

00:00:58We'll get to that at some point.

00:01:00Very much went into the record books, Brian.

00:01:02Yeah.

00:01:03And then about 90 minutes after the game, right after we leave the locker room, I'm

00:01:09downstairs getting a nice lobster roll, and I'm casually walking back upstairs, and Barth

00:01:15yells at me to check my phone.

00:01:17And there you have it.

00:01:18The Patriots have officially fired Gerard Mayo.

00:01:22They made that decision.

00:01:24Robert Kraft released a statement.

00:01:26And then we're down there at Gillette today, speaking to Robert Kraft.

00:01:30He held a press conference.

00:01:32We talked to players on trash bag, excuse me, locker cleanout day.

00:01:36And this coaching search has already gotten started, because they've requested an interview

00:01:40for a candidate.

00:01:41So a lot going on.

00:01:42We'll break down all of it here, and we'll, of course, start as much as we...

00:01:47This show deserves to start with Joe Milton and that performance, but we will start with

00:01:52Gerard Mayo, and obviously the big news there, let go.

00:01:57One and done.

00:01:58So I'll just kick it to you, what were your initial reactions when you saw the news?

00:02:04And now that we're, again, 25, 26 hours out, what do you think of the move to move on from

00:02:10Gerard Mayo?

00:02:11Yeah.

00:02:12I think it's the right move.

00:02:13As I'd been saying, there was a strong case for the Patriots to fire Gerard Mayo for a

00:02:18few weeks, and Robert Kraft talked about it today.

00:02:21The last month, the regression, it was all kind of staked on them being better at the

00:02:25end of the season than they were at the beginning.

00:02:27They weren't, they were worse, and you're not going to keep your job doing that.

00:02:31One and Dunning and coach is a dramatic move.

00:02:33This is something that has the potential to shake up a franchise, but with Drake May showing

00:02:38as much progress as he did, I don't know that the alternative was better and, and giving

00:02:45Gerard Mayo another year.

00:02:46Now there's still some major, major questions left unanswered, namely who is going to have

00:02:52final say over the roster.

00:02:54And here we are, Brian, a year late, just one year later, we're going to do the full

00:02:57control thing.

00:02:58Again, roster control thing, final say, I'll remind everybody, I do not care who the general

00:03:04manager is.

00:03:05I do not care who has that title.

00:03:06I do not care if there is a title, frankly, of general manager.

00:03:10I want to know when push comes to shove and they're negotiating a contract or they're

00:03:14in the draft room who above all else gets to put their fist on the table and say, Nope,

00:03:19we're doing what I want.

00:03:22And Elliot Wolf is staying.

00:03:24Will he still have final say that was kind of left the ambiguous by Robert Kraft today

00:03:29and some of the reporting that to me is going to be the big question because as I've said,

00:03:36coaching was an issue.

00:03:37Absolutely.

00:03:38The biggest issue was the roster.

00:03:42So that's kind of my takeaway is all right.

00:03:45You fired him.

00:03:46Great.

00:03:47Who's the next coach one.

00:03:48And then really who's going to be building this roster because the new coach, whoever

00:03:53it is, and we'll get to that.

00:03:55They're not going to fail, fare much better with the same roster.

00:03:58There needs to be massive, massive player personnel upgrades.

00:04:01And I want to know who's in charge of that because Drake made a great rookie year, but

00:04:05we're not seeing Drake may once a week for the next four months, whoever it is that has

00:04:09final say essentially becomes the face of the Patriots for the next four months.

00:04:13So is that the new coach?

00:04:15I think that maybe depends on who they hire for Mike Vrabel.

00:04:19That would make a lot of sense in there done that for Ben Johnson.

00:04:23Not so much.

00:04:24He's already a first time head coach.

00:04:25Do you really want to put personnel on him as well?

00:04:27I wouldn't.

00:04:28That doesn't mean I'd give it back to Elliot Wolf.

00:04:31Maybe there's somebody Ben Johnson brings with him from Detroit.

00:04:35But that's kind of where I'm at now.

00:04:37They moved on from him.

00:04:38It was the right move.

00:04:40It felt like it was building.

00:04:41Now let's get the show on the road.

00:04:43Yeah, definitely felt like it was the right move.

00:04:47And I think it's still fair to acknowledge there's some level of unfairness to that,

00:04:53right?

00:04:54Like he was a inexperienced first year head coach who was put into this role probably

00:04:58was put in a bad position and credit to Robert Kraft for the first thing he said when he

00:05:02got up there today, he admitted accountability.

00:05:04He said, yeah, this is on me.

00:05:06I feel bad for putting Gerard in this untenable situation.

00:05:09So he admitted that the mistake and there is a level of unfairness for 38 year old youngest

00:05:16head coach in the league.

00:05:17Never been a coordinator to be put in that spot with a talent depleted roster, right?

00:05:23And you're not if you're Gerard Mayo, you're not going to shut down an opportunity to coach

00:05:28be a head coach in the national only because those jobs are few and far between.

00:05:32But you saw the, you know, the regression that you mentioned, Kraft said the high point

00:05:36of the season was that week one win in Cincinnati where things seem to be kind of taken off

00:05:42in the right direction maybe.

00:05:44And then it all crumbles down and you know, I will say, I think entering the buy, I didn't

00:05:50think they would be kind of man enough to admit their mistake.

00:05:53And then it got so bad after the buy, I really think it was that chargers game where we started

00:05:58throwing that calamity word around, right?

00:06:00Where you're in your home stadium, you get blown out, you have fans chanting, fire Mayo,

00:06:06you're booing the fans, you know, the crowds half empty, like that's where it really started

00:06:10to go downhill.

00:06:11And then you have, you know, Keon White questioning the coaching staff, you have players attacking

00:06:16the fan base.

00:06:17Like it was all kind of just boiled up there and it seemed like Gerard Mayo kind of dug

00:06:21his grave a little too deep there at the end.

00:06:24So I do think it was the right decision.

00:06:26But yeah, now the front office situation is interesting that you got into a little

00:06:32bit.

00:06:33And that was, I think when we left Kraft's press conference today, the biggest question

00:06:37we still have, because he was, it was kind of weird how he answered it.

00:06:42You know, he started by saying the new head coach, whoever it is, will have the power

00:06:47to bring in coaches and players.

00:06:49So you would assume if he wants a new GM, he would do so.

00:06:53And then he was asked, Kraft asked who is in this interview process for the new head

00:06:58coach.

00:06:59And he said, Alonzo Highsmith in Elliot Wolfe.

00:07:02So if these two guys are running the process of picking the new coach, are they going to

00:07:07go hire Mike Vrabel?

00:07:08If Mike Vrabel wants to come with, you know, Mike, Mike Borgonzi, I think that's the guy

00:07:13from Kansas city's name.

00:07:14There's another guy he worked with, with Tennessee.

00:07:18If Mike Vrabel sit in there and saying, I want this guy to be my GM and Elliot Wolfe

00:07:23is doing the interview.

00:07:25He's just going to go to Kraft and be like, Mike Vrabel is not our guy.

00:07:28It kind of gave me vibes, you know, the Bill Belichick Atlanta situation last year where

00:07:33it seemed like, uh, Arthur blank wanted Bill Belichick and then they had that kind of second

00:07:38level.

00:07:39I forget all the guy's names, uh, McKay and thought knew or something, you know, they're

00:07:46like, if we hire Bill Belichick, then we're going to lose our jobs because he's going

00:07:49to come in here and take personnel control.

00:07:51So kind of a weird dynamic.

00:07:53And then there was a follow-up question, you know, what is Wolfe's role?

00:07:57And Kraft said, you know, him in that department are staying on.

00:08:00So that's kind of the real question right now.

00:08:03And you know, who the head coach is probably will play a role in that, but maybe Kraft

00:08:09was talking about, you know, the Mac Rose and the cam Williams and some of those lower

00:08:14level scouts in that process, but that does the front office shake up and hierarchy right

00:08:19now seems to be kind of the main question, which we'll get a little bit better understanding

00:08:24of when they do get a new head coach.

00:08:26I think too, look, I've been, uh, a big proponent of pushing back like when it comes to Alex

00:08:33van Pelt, right?

00:08:34Oh, can Alex van Pelt be the quarterbacks coach?

00:08:36No guys don't get demoted within the organization and the NFL doesn't happen.

00:08:41That being said, there is a situation.

00:08:44It could be different for Elliot Wolfe where he's not demoted.

00:08:46He still keeps that title and kind of the day to day stays the same, but he doesn't

00:08:52have final say.

00:08:54So he's still the one, you know, working on contracts.

00:08:57He's still the one leading the charge in the draft room and things like that.

00:09:02But he basically just has to clear everything with whoever it is, the head coach, maybe

00:09:06the football overlord comes back into the conversation now and it becomes that guy.

00:09:12Um, taking away final say is not, it is a demotion, I guess, like technically, but we've

00:09:19like that happens, right?

00:09:21Moving a coach to a lesser role doesn't happen.

00:09:24Reassigning a responsibility.

00:09:26We see this all the time with like coaches taking away play calling duties.

00:09:28Right.

00:09:29And it's usually not a great sign for the guy who it's being taken away from.

00:09:33But if craft believes that maybe Elliot Wolfe's like system works, and I think Greg Bedard

00:09:38reported today for all the talk about the new system and oh, that last draft was so

00:09:42bad.

00:09:44Greg Bedard said today that the new system wasn't in place in the last draft.

00:09:47That was still Belichick system, which does make sense in the sense that usually like

00:09:54so much of the legwork is done during the season.

00:09:56It's hard to kind of overhaul it all at that point when you get to January, February.

00:10:00So I was just going to say it made sense that they whiffed on a second round and it

00:10:04makes sense that they were, yeah, the results kind of line up for the last few years.

00:10:08So I wonder if this is a Kate now, Elliot Wolfe, the, to your point may not want to

00:10:14lose final say.

00:10:15And he may be like, well, I got to tell them to hire Ben Johnson because that's what's

00:10:18best for me.

00:10:19Hopefully he doesn't do that.

00:10:20Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

00:10:21Um, that's certainly case, but if they were to go to him and say like, oh, you know, we're

00:10:28going to take final say, we're going to leave you in your position.

00:10:30That may be preferable to the alternative to him because demotion comes with like less

00:10:35pay, you know, around the league, it kind of looks bad in terms of getting your next

00:10:39job.

00:10:40That may not be the case here.

00:10:41Like if you were to leave, you look at the off season, the Patriots just had, is he going

00:10:46to get anything close to the job he has now?

00:10:50Probably not.

00:10:51And that's not a reason you keep them, right?

00:10:53Oh, well, nobody else wants this guy, so we'll keep them.

00:10:56It is a reason that they can and probably should pull final say away from him.

00:11:01He'd still be involved, but that final say goes to somebody else.

00:11:05So I pulled up a Twitter while you're talking there and top of the top of the old time while

00:11:11you're talking top of the old X feed, Elon must be listening to us.

00:11:15There was a transcription from Phil Perry on his Patriots talk podcast.

00:11:19He said, Phil's understanding was that if someone like variable was to get this job

00:11:23and go to the crafts and say, I understand you want to keep Elliot and Alonzo here,

00:11:28but I need this guy running the personnel department.

00:11:31And Phil thinks ownership would be open to that.

00:11:34And he also thinks Elliot Wolfe would be open to taking a different kind of role where he

00:11:37doesn't have final say on the roster.

00:11:40So someone would kind of be essentially, as you just said, coming over the top of Wolfe

00:11:43and everyone in the front office.

00:11:45Maybe not exactly that.

00:11:49What was the role we kind of wanted variable in last year?

00:11:51Like the president of football operations, football operations, not exactly that more

00:11:56of a front office role, but just someone over the top there to kind of maybe foresee and

00:12:01run.

00:12:02Well, you could still call it that.

00:12:03You could still call it that in the, in the front office, you can call it whatever you

00:12:06want.

00:12:07I mean, president of baseball operations.

00:12:08When I first heard that sounded made up as hell.

00:12:10So you can call it whatever you want.

00:12:13Just tell me who has final say.

00:12:15That's all I care about.

00:12:16I don't care what the titles are.

00:12:18I don't care how it's structured.

00:12:21Seven people in the draft room.

00:12:23Three people want player.

00:12:24Three people want will Campbell.

00:12:26Three people want, uh, Abdul Carter.

00:12:31Who's the one that stands up and says, no, that's all right.

00:12:35Six people in the draft room, three, one, Will Campbell, three, one, Abdul Carter.

00:12:39Who's the one that gets to put his fist on the table and say, my vote counts twice for

00:12:42taking my guy.

00:12:44That's what I care about.

00:12:46That guy is, is in charge of fixing the organization.

00:12:50The new head coach certainly plays a role.

00:12:52It's not going to matter if they don't get more talent.

00:12:54That's the guy.

00:12:55That's the guy that we need to know who he is.

00:12:58And so we can kind of get an idea, all right, this is, these are his philosophies.

00:13:02This is what this is going to look like.

00:13:03So we can start really talking about this off season.

00:13:06Yep.

00:13:07And it could be useful too, because we've heard kind of the last few days, how lacking

00:13:11the Patriots personnel department is just in people, right?

00:13:14So maybe getting someone else in there, maybe they bring some guys with them, you know,

00:13:18then that person would probably be lower than Wolf and Highsmith, but just get some new

00:13:21voices.

00:13:23Maybe this new scouting system grading system gets installed and maybe things start to get

00:13:29better there.

00:13:30But that probably is an answer that comes after they do hire their next head coach.

00:13:36That search for a new head coach has already begun.

00:13:38It seems like they want to move as quickly as they can.

00:13:41The league kind of has kind of made it now.

00:13:44So these things get dragged on with, you know, with teams in the playoffs, but it seems

00:13:47like the Patriots want to move as quickly as possible and do an extensive search.

00:13:51And that was my big thing.

00:13:53They did the whole, you know, secession clause with Gerard Mayo last year that they didn't

00:13:57have to do a full search.

00:14:00And I think it's pretty easy to say in hindsight, that was a mistake.

00:14:04So they have a request out there for Ben Johnson.

00:14:07Seems like he's going to accept that in interview, Mike Vrabel, obviously.

00:14:12I think the NFL Network said he has accepted that he's going to interview this week.

00:14:14I think he has to do it on Zoom.

00:14:17He can't come in person.

00:14:18Yeah, it's like Wednesday through Saturday.

00:14:21Yeah, because of the playoffs.

00:14:23Yeah.

00:14:24So Johnson will interview Vrabel, obviously.

00:14:28We expect at some point we'll get an interview that hasn't been confirmed yet, but that will

00:14:32likely be coming.

00:14:34So some candidates are starting to align there.

00:14:38Those two seem like the favorites.

00:14:40Is that where you would lean those two guys, or where are you kind of at with who you would

00:14:47like to be the next coach here?

00:14:52So yeah, those are among the top guys.

00:14:55I've kind of said this.

00:14:56My biggest, if there's one trait I'm looking for here, it's experience.

00:15:03And sorry, a lot of talking today.

00:15:08If there's one trait I'm looking for, it's experience.

00:15:13And I just, that's not to say I don't think Ben Johnson's a good coach.

00:15:16He is.

00:15:17It's not to say I think he'd be a bad hire.

00:15:18He wouldn't be bad, but he doesn't answer a lot of the biggest questions you had with

00:15:24Gerard Mayo.

00:15:25A big part of the problem, yes, there were schematic issues.

00:15:28Yes, there were game management issues.

00:15:30A big part of the problem is they never established a culture.

00:15:32They never established a program.

00:15:34There's no order.

00:15:35There's no organization.

00:15:36Could Ben Johnson do that?

00:15:37It's very possible, but he's a first time head coach.

00:15:40He's never had to do that.

00:15:41We know he's great on the whiteboard.

00:15:43We know he's great with the X and O's being a head coach is so much more than that.

00:15:48And you know, people will point to obviously going back to Kyle Shanahan, they'll point

00:15:54to more recently guys like Kevin O'Connell for every Kevin O'Connell.

00:15:58I can give you 10 Mike McDaniels and I don't want to hear that Mike McDaniels is a success.

00:16:02Was he three and 16 against teams over 500 players are begging to get out of there.

00:16:07Yeah.

00:16:08Fine.

00:16:09How many times did we see Josh McDaniels who is a great offense coordinator and I would

00:16:14take back as the offensive coordinator, by the way.

00:16:17So don't let this come across me totally bashing McDaniels, but how many times did we see him

00:16:21go or any of these Patriots assistants go and fail because they, most of them are great

00:16:27football minds.

00:16:29But when it came to being a leader, when it came to establishing a program and a culture,

00:16:34they couldn't do it and they never had to because bill Belichick was among many things

00:16:39tremendous at that.

00:16:41We know Dan Campbell has the culture building covered in spades in Detroit.

00:16:47Ben Johnson doesn't have to worry about any of that.

00:16:50So I just think you're, you're taking a risk and look, there's a risk in any of it, but

00:16:57I just think you look at it and what were the biggest issues to the Gerard Mayo era?

00:17:05Does Ben Johnson solve those?

00:17:08We know Mike Vrabel does because we saw the program he built in Tennessee.

00:17:12It worked.

00:17:13He wasn't fired because the team wasn't good.

00:17:15He was fired because of issues with ownership.

00:17:17I'd say the same thing about Brian Flores, who built a really good culture.

00:17:21Miami came in here late in the year and played spoiler of the new England, a good New England

00:17:25Patriots team, a Tom Brady led New England Patriots team.

00:17:29So now those guys are defensive coaches and there is the element of that thing.

00:17:34Where do you want to coach to grow with your quarterback?

00:17:37I think that's all a little bit overblown, but it is valid.

00:17:40I'll give you that sucks.

00:17:42Brian Dayball's going back to the giants.

00:17:43He bridged these two, but look, I, Ben Johnson is one of the best offensive innovators in

00:17:49the game.

00:17:50Him with Drake may assuming you up the talent level elsewhere, which again is priority.

00:17:54Number one, there's a ton of potential there and that should be enticing to pair Ben Johnson

00:17:59with Drake may, but if it's yeah, cool, there's fun tape on Mondays, but you still have players

00:18:08out there dogging it.

00:18:09You still have bad game management.

00:18:11You still have players and coaches unable to control what they're saying in the media.

00:18:16It's not going to be a good look.

00:18:18So I'm not, people are going to construe this as me saying I wouldn't hire Ben Johnson.

00:18:23I would, he wouldn't be that my top choice it's for able, but I'm not going to sit here

00:18:27and rip them.

00:18:28If they hire Ben Johnson, I'm just saying, stop acting like he's an automatic fix.

00:18:31He's not.

00:18:32There's uncertainties just because he's an offensive coach.

00:18:35People forget defense exists sometimes and all the other parts of the game because he

00:18:38can't draft culture and fantasy football, but just keep in mind how sometimes you pick

00:18:45up Tom Brady on your bench for that.

00:18:47That championship put, he's still on there.

00:18:50He's still on that.

00:18:52This is such a, like a side note, but like he was one of the most added people in fantasy,

00:18:57like the last championship weekend.

00:18:59Cause everyone's like, I need that championship experience on my bench.

00:19:03That's actually kind of awesome.

00:19:05But, but the point being like, uh, just think about what were the biggest issues with the

00:19:13Gerard Mayo era and ask yourself if what has been Johnson done in his career to make

00:19:23you confident he can fix those issues.

00:19:26Now, to be fair, to flip it back on my grable here, you will get the biggest issues at the

00:19:31end of the bill Belichick era.

00:19:34And what does Mike Vrabel done to show you he can fix those?

00:19:38And that's a fair question as well.

00:19:40Because the, they kind of burned out the same way Belichick and Vrabel in their spots,

00:19:45lack of offensive production, um, really lack, lack of offensive production.

00:19:50That was it.

00:19:51And they just kind of grinded on ownership because they're like intense quarterback play

00:19:55quarterback play and they're like production, but right.

00:19:58And they're both kind of intense grading guys.

00:20:01And when it's not going great with a guy like that, it can be tough, but I just think, yeah,

00:20:08I, I like that.

00:20:09You need to consider that offensive guru aside.

00:20:12You're not hiring him to be, you're not hiring Ben Johnson to be your offensive coordinator.

00:20:17And I need to see if Ray would have as his offense coordinator.

00:20:19Like that's part of it.

00:20:20You're not hiring Ben Johnson to be your offense coordinator.

00:20:22You're hiring him to run your football team.

00:20:23You're hiring him to run the day to day, your football operation.

00:20:26That's a lot more than X's and O's and lines on a whiteboard.

00:20:29Yeah.

00:20:30Yeah.

00:20:31I get the being hesitant about bringing another first time head coach into here after everything

00:20:36that just went down with Mayo.

00:20:38And I'm sure that will be something that crafts, you know, consider a lot to there, you know,

00:20:43but I think this is also the big thing.

00:20:46Why you need this extensive interview search is to get Ben Johnson in the building and

00:20:51find out more about him, right?

00:20:53Because maybe he gets in here and he does really blow you away from a leadership point

00:20:58of view.

00:20:59And he has this, he comes with this, you know, lengthy list of staff members, you know, popular

00:21:03one going around is Lou Anna Rumo, who got released today, uh, Cincinnati Bengals, defensive

00:21:08coordinator.

00:21:09Like this was a coordinator, really experienced coordinator that some people thought could

00:21:13be a head coach down the line.

00:21:15He worked with Ben Johnson in Miami.

00:21:17Like does that make you more and more comfortable with Ben Johnson if he's your defensive coordinator?

00:21:21And then he's like, okay, we got our version of not Ben McAdoo, someone a little bit more

00:21:26involved than Ben McAdoo, like an experienced head coach.

00:21:28Like you sit down and you get more.

00:21:32You just need this interview process to get the full story that unfortunately, you know,

00:21:36we're not with Ben Johnson every day in Detroit.

00:21:38We, we can't get that right now, but that's why I think it's important to bring these

00:21:43guys in.

00:21:44And it does seem like they do want to have more of an extensive search this time.

00:21:48And they need to, cause they need to satisfy the league rules, but it does feel like they're

00:21:52not just going to hand this thing to Bravo.

00:21:54Yeah.

00:21:55And nor should they like, they should interview everybody on the Ben Johnson, but you got

00:21:58to, I think Lou Anna Rumo is a great defensive mind.

00:22:01They've never been a head coach and you know, the, the Ben Johnson, people who were hammering

00:22:06the table for Ben Johnson will say, well, you get them like Wade Phillips, like Sean

00:22:09McVay had in LA Lou and uh, yeah, Wade Phillips, Lou Anna Rumo is not Wade Phillips.

00:22:14I mean, Wade Phillips had been a head coach for a long time.

00:22:18Like you need to find, if you're hiring Ben Johnson, you need to tell me who your Wade

00:22:23Phillips is.

00:22:24Who'd uh, who, who got Leslie Frazier this year?

00:22:27Like something, is that the, um, Leslie Seahawks, like Mike McDonald went and got Leslie Frazier

00:22:34as kind of, yeah, something like that.

00:22:36And not Robert solid.

00:22:37Cause they, um, I don't, I don't ever want to see the Patriots run a Seattle three.

00:22:40I want to see it.

00:22:41They have Christian Gonzalez.

00:22:42I want to keep seeing them run that, that man coverage, heavy defense.

00:22:47So it's not raw.

00:22:48I know it sounds like I'm chipping away, but this is, this is what you do, right?

00:22:51We can chip away at Ben Johnson too.

00:22:53People want to come at me.

00:22:54We can chip away at Mike Vrabel too, but who's your Wade Phillips.

00:22:58If Ben Johnson's your Sean McVay, who's your, who's your Wade Phillips.

00:23:01Yup.

00:23:02I will ask you though, who do you think if Elliot Wolfe is in this interview room, who

00:23:08do you think he would prefer between those two guys?

00:23:12Because I went down there today and I was like, this is just going to be Mike Vrabel's

00:23:17job at some point.

00:23:18And I think I left actually thinking Ben Johnson might have more of a shot here because we

00:23:24saw there was some stuff going around, you know, the X machine, how Ben Johnson and Elliot

00:23:29Wolfe might have a relationship and he likes them.

00:23:31You know, we hear Elliot Wolfe might stay on.

00:23:33They want someone to work well with Elliot Wolfe.

00:23:36Elliot Wolfe has preferred offensive coaches.

00:23:39You look at, you know, the green Bay teams, Cleveland, Kevin Stefanski, like it's an offensive

00:23:44minded coach.

00:23:45So I wouldn't be surprised if Elliot Wolfe is a Ben Johnson fan, but where do you think

00:23:49he might lie between those two or maybe another candidate?

00:23:54We're not even talking about you.

00:23:56I mean, I, I think he'd like Ben Johnson cause like we talked about before, it probably helps

00:24:00him keep his job as is.

00:24:03It's probably easier that way, but yeah, although I could see Highsmith being more of a Vrabel

00:24:12guy cause they're both former players.

00:24:15That's true.

00:24:16Highsmith.

00:24:17He was a running back, right?

00:24:18Not a linebacker, but you know, linebackers are running back at the defense, but maybe,

00:24:23maybe he likes that.

00:24:24But, um, I'll add this to somebody say like, stop pumping Vrabel because he's been here.

00:24:30I understand not wanting a retread, not wanting another Belichick guy.

00:24:34You want to make that argument to be fine.

00:24:37That's not Mike Vrabel.

00:24:38Like people need to understand that Mike Vrabel is not another one of these Belichick tree.

00:24:43I get it.

00:24:44He's not a linebacker and Gerard Mayo with another.

00:24:47The yes, Vrabel played here.

00:24:50Like he has been here, but we talk about needing these outside ideas.

00:24:55Mike Vrabel coaching career is entirely independent of Bill Belichick.

00:24:58He was at Ohio state.

00:25:00He was hired by Jim Trestle.

00:25:01He worked for Luke Fickle and Urban Meyer.

00:25:04Then he went to Houston where he worked for Bill O'Brien.

00:25:06So Patriots influenced, but not a Belichick run program.

00:25:10He then was in Tennessee where he, we were talking about this last night.

00:25:14He did have Dean pieces, his defensive coordinator outside of that really very few Patriots influences

00:25:19on the coaching staff, more in the front office, but he's not going to work with John Robinson

00:25:23again.

00:25:24We know that.

00:25:25So very little Patriots influence during his time in Tennessee.

00:25:28And then he was in Cleveland this year where he was probably with more Elliot Wolf people

00:25:31than Bill Belichick people.

00:25:33So yes, he played here.

00:25:36You're never going to, it's super rare.

00:25:37You see a owner hire somebody he has zero familiarity with.

00:25:40So it's kind of the perfect balance because Rable's a guy that's been in other programs,

00:25:45has experience elsewhere, but still has that familiarity with ownership.

00:25:49Even though he's never coached here, he never coached under Bill.

00:25:53He learned a lot of football from Bill as a player, but his coaching upbringing again,

00:25:58uh, uh, Jim, who's the guy with the sweaters at Ohio state?

00:26:03Why am I blanking on his name?

00:26:04The sweater?

00:26:05Yes, thank you.

00:26:06Jim Trestle.

00:26:07And it just said his name, Jim Trestle, Luke fickle, urban Meyer, Bill O'Brien, Kevin Stefanski.

00:26:14Those are the coaches he was worked for.

00:26:15O'Brien is the only one of those guys that is a Belichick tie-in.

00:26:22That's it.

00:26:24The rest of it was totally independent of the Patriots tree.

00:26:28Yup.

00:26:30And also someone else mentioned we were talking to Lou Anna remote.

00:26:34And so we want the bangles discarded defensive coordinator.

00:26:38He I don't, I got a raw deal.

00:26:41He got a raw deal.

00:26:42They let a lot of talent go on that side of the football.

00:26:45We were going through it today, like DJ reader, defensive line that when they went to the

00:26:50super bowl, which their defense was one of the best in the league, they turned over that

00:26:53whole cornerback room and it wasn't a great cornerback room.

00:26:56It was like Eli apple was one of their starters.

00:26:59They lost Jesse Bates in the backend.

00:27:02So they've lost a lot of talent.

00:27:03Uh, and it feels like it seemed like they had a lot of young guys who couldn't really

00:27:09grasp his system.

00:27:10And there are some similarities with Anna Rumo, especially in the secondary where, you

00:27:14know, you were talking a lot of man with the Patriots system.

00:27:17So I think, I think that would be a really good fit.

00:27:19This was a guy, they were calling him the mad scientist when he was shutting down Patrick

00:27:23moments just a couple of years ago.

00:27:24Look, he's not exactly going to inherit it's on a talent here, but the idea is you're kind

00:27:28of building on it.

00:27:29And then in a year or two, you get him the pieces he needs.

00:27:33So yeah, I, I would, especially with Rabel him and for able to cook up some fun stuff.

00:27:38I don't know that he'd come work with the defensive coach.

00:27:40He probably wants to be the one running his own show.

00:27:44That'd be a ton of fun though.

00:27:45Well, it'd probably be him and Ben Johnson.

00:27:48That would be the pairing, right?

00:27:50Yeah.

00:27:51So you, you'd better go get a veteran experienced head coach, offensive coordinator, then like

00:27:56assistant head coach, kind of offensive coordinator.

00:27:58Honestly, you know, who'd be no, he wouldn't.

00:28:00He doesn't have head coach experience.

00:28:01Nevermind, but you better get an experienced offensive.

00:28:04No.

00:28:05Yeah.

00:28:06And then I kind of forgot the point I was making.

00:28:07I'm just, I keep trying to shoehorn Alex van Pelt back into this.

00:28:10He did a good job.

00:28:11I'm looking at Joe Milton's development.

00:28:14Joe Milton was the people thought I was nuts talking about Joe Milton because he was the

00:28:18least developable quarterback in the draft, which objectively he probably was.

00:28:24And the strides he took that game yesterday on top of what he did with Drake, Alex van

00:28:30Pelt is going to get another offensive coordinator job.

00:28:32If he's out of here, it's probably going to be back in Cleveland, but he did a great job

00:28:36this year for the rest of the mess that the coaching staff was Mike Pellegrino, Alex van

00:28:42Pelt, Scott Peters.

00:28:44Those guys did their jobs this year.

00:28:45They deserve credit for getting done what they did in what was otherwise a mess of a

00:28:50season.

00:28:51He killed.

00:28:52He ruined the Joe Milton.

00:28:53Does anybody or the better?

00:28:55Did you say, did you say TC McCartney?

00:28:57Oh yeah.

00:28:58I put him under the umbrella of van Pelton.

00:29:00Sure.

00:29:01Van Pelt, McCartney, Mike Pellegrino, Scott Peters.

00:29:04Those guys deserve.

00:29:05I wouldn't be mad if Peters was back and look, if it's rabble, you have that Cleveland tie.

00:29:09Like there's a through line there that could happen.

00:29:11Yeah.

00:29:12That's why I think they're not firing these guys.

00:29:14I know some people are alarmed by that.

00:29:15Not the front office guys, but like rest of the coaching staff.

00:29:18I think it was beetle on the sports of today who used the term pick at the carcass where,

00:29:25you know, head coach might come in and whether it's, it's for Abel Johnson, whoever, and

00:29:29he has maybe familiarity, some tie with one or two guys and you know, you might as well

00:29:35keep them.

00:29:36Right.

00:29:37If he likes them, it's one less guy you have to hire.

00:29:38So you'll hire your coach and you'll let him look over it and he'll be like, all right,

00:29:41we're keeping like this guy, this guy, the rest of them, we can let go.

00:29:45So I, I, it's not going to be Ben Johnson inheriting Gerard Mayo staff.

00:29:49It's not going to be Mike Vrabel inheriting Gerard Mayo staff.

00:29:54It's going to be a mostly new coaching staff.

00:29:56There might be one or two guys though that hang around.

00:29:59I don't think Van Pelt will be one of them.

00:30:01This should be one of them.

00:30:02Jeremy Springer should absolutely be one of them.

00:30:05That's a good point to make, but we'll, we'll see who that is.

00:30:09We're a few steps away from getting that answer though.

00:30:12Yeah.

00:30:13I mean, probably they'll have the right to interview probably for, for their jobs again

00:30:16with whatever new coach is in.

00:30:18Even if it's, if you could keep someone in that quarterback room, if it's TC probably

00:30:22would be TC McCartney.

00:30:24That would just be huge to keep one of those guys with, with Drake, uh, and Joe Milton

00:30:29there.

00:30:30Then maybe someone, you know, Bob Bucknell did a really good job with the tight end.

00:30:32Someone, you know, one of those positional coaches, we all love Mike Pellegrino.

00:30:35If they could keep Mike Pellegrino, uh, that would be great.

00:30:38So those guys will have the chance to interview for their jobs with whoever new guy you assume

00:30:43whatever new guy does come in.

00:30:44We'll bring a lot of guys with him, but, um, those guys will have a shot.

00:30:49So let's talk a little bit more about that coaching search.

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00:31:59Run your game.

00:32:00All right.

00:32:02So we talked a lot about Vrabel, obviously Ben Johnson got the request.

00:32:08What else?

00:32:09They have to bring in more guys here.

00:32:10It sounds like they'll bring in more guys there.

00:32:12They also need to, you know, write a Ron satisfy the Rooney rule, but who else would be on

00:32:17your kind of shortlist here to brain in for some head coaching interviews over the next

00:32:23week or two?

00:32:24I mean, I, I guess I'm a hypocrite if I don't say Bobby Slowick.

00:32:27I liked slow it last year.

00:32:29Obviously Houston had a step back, but probably not a bad guy to talk to.

00:32:33I, again, the experience thing, the program building thing, I'd love to see him talk to

00:32:38Brian Flores.

00:32:39And I know there's the lawsuit in that whole thing.

00:32:42If any owner is equipped to kind of handle that and, and get between his coach and the

00:32:47NFL, it's Robert craft.

00:32:49I think floor is again, proven program builder, and he could probably bring Josh McCown with

00:32:54him as the OC who is Drake Mays coach in college.

00:32:57Love what they've built in Minnesota.

00:32:58Love the offense, love the culture.

00:32:59So you get a piece of that.

00:33:02Liam Cohn would be interesting.

00:33:04I think he's, you talk about a young inexperienced coach.

00:33:08I mean, Ben Johnson's been an OC for three years now.

00:33:11Cohen's kind of been bouncing back and forth between college and the pros.

00:33:15Hasn't had a ton of stability.

00:33:16He's younger.

00:33:18Local guy would be fun from Rhode Island, played quarterback at UMass.

00:33:21But I still think he's probably, I would talk to him.

00:33:25You look at what they've done in Tampa with wide receivers and wide receiver development.

00:33:29I would kind of pick his brain on that.

00:33:33But I still think he's probably a year or two away from being a head coach, but I would

00:33:35talk to him.

00:33:38Who else?

00:33:39I feel like it's kind of like, it's, it's the guys at the top of the list, right?

00:33:45So I mean, Detroit's other coordinator, Aaron Glenn has been a popular one.

00:33:49He's been interviewing around.

00:33:51But if you're going to hire a defensive coach, like you hired Gerard Mayo.

00:33:54Vrabel, you mean?

00:33:56Vrabel.

00:33:57Yes.

00:33:58Jeez.

00:33:59That's good.

00:34:00We're not good.

00:34:01We're not.

00:34:03Do you think he's going to get a job this year?

00:34:04Or do you think he's out of football?

00:34:05I don't know what he's going to do.

00:34:07That would be really like, do you think a team is going to turn around and give him

00:34:10a coordinator job?

00:34:12Not a coordinator job.

00:34:13Maybe a positional coaching job, because I don't think he can do media either.

00:34:16After that.

00:34:17No, definitely.

00:34:18He's either going to have to take a positional job or just kind of collect your check and

00:34:24lay low for a year.

00:34:25Like if Nick's, if Nick Saban was still coaching, he'd be like a prime candidate for that.

00:34:29Like Nick Saban coach rehab, like defensive analyst kind of thing.

00:34:34But I'll give you one more name.

00:34:36So I mentioned Bobby Slowick and he's still, this goes against my take.

00:34:40This is more a guy I would talk to and pick his mind than maybe hire.

00:34:44And he's, he'd be a good offensive coordinator candidate if he did hire somebody else.

00:34:48Is Gerard Johnson, the quarterbacks coach in Houston, a longtime player in the league.

00:34:52You look at some of the other quarterbacks he's worked with in his time.

00:34:56I liked him last year as like a potential OC hire.

00:34:58If they were going to go with Bobby Slowick, uh, you know, bringing him from Houston.

00:35:02I know Houston really didn't want to lose him.

00:35:05He was somebody that they were focused on.

00:35:07Like he was viewed as if Slowick left one of the favorites, if not the favorite for

00:35:11that offense coordinator job.

00:35:13But we see this all the time where, where coaches talk to a guy, I mean, they didn't

00:35:18to Marcus Covington was getting interviews when he was a defensive line coach.

00:35:21Like you talk to a guy a year or two ahead, just get to know him, build that connection,

00:35:28you know, get, get the information and maybe it's something you revisit in a year or two.

00:35:32So Gerard Johnson's another guy I'd like to see him.

00:35:35Uh, I wouldn't hate seeing him talk to.

00:35:37Yep.

00:35:38I'll say something.

00:35:39Uh, someone in the chat said I wouldn't want Flores next to a young quarterback, which

00:35:43you know, is fair after what happened with Tua in Miami.

00:35:47What I would say is you hope he learned from that.

00:35:49And he spent the last few years with Mike Tomlin and Kevin O'Connell who are two of

00:35:53the best in the league and that coach, the player relationship.

00:35:57And he would also under this idea that would, it would be bought Brian for as his head coach

00:36:02here.

00:36:03He would come with a Josh McCown who was one of these incoming coordinators and is very,

00:36:07you know, has a good relationship previous.

00:36:09Not just that.

00:36:10Or yeah, he, so like McCown's going to be Mays guy.

00:36:13Like Flores won't have to, won't have to deal with him a ton.

00:36:17Yeah.

00:36:18Some other names.

00:36:19What's the most ridiculous name you've heard?

00:36:21So run it back with Pete Carroll.

00:36:23So I asked you last night, has anybody said Nick Saban to the Patriots yet?

00:36:27Not that I would do it.

00:36:28I'm just curious if anybody said it, someone said, uh, and this would be, I think a really

00:36:32good idea or, or maybe, I don't know how you would feel, but if you go with that, Ben Johnson

00:36:37and new Anna Rumo, like would you, Doug Peterson as maybe that advisor, maybe, maybe as an

00:36:45offensive coordinator.

00:36:46That's a, you know, offensive minded, Superbowl winning head coach.

00:36:50If you want someone with that.

00:36:51Yeah.

00:36:52He, he wouldn't be bad.

00:36:53He wouldn't be bad.

00:36:54Um, yeah, Ben Johnson, Doug Peterson could make sense.

00:36:57Doug Peterson's a good quarterbacks guy.

00:37:00Yep.

00:37:01Um, some other names like Todd Munkin, Ravens offensive coordinator, Adam Stanovich, Stanovich,

00:37:08the Green Bay offensive coordinator.

00:37:10Now he doesn't call plays cause it's under the floor.

00:37:13If you want defense, Jesse Minter is up and coming with the chargers.

00:37:17I think he's going to be really good, but that might just be like Mayo again, where

00:37:20it's a little too early, right?

00:37:22This is his first year on the job as the charters, defensive coordinator, uh, Joe Brady with

00:37:28the, the bills, offensive coordinator has been getting some looks.

00:37:31I mean, that'd be great.

00:37:32Like that, if anybody really wanted Brian Dable, I think that's where you pivot to.

00:37:36But again, Brady doesn't have that head coaching experience.

00:37:39Munkin's an interesting one.

00:37:40I love his brother.

00:37:41I think his brother is, is of all, and I haven't, obviously it was just that one week we covered

00:37:46him, but you know, his interviews, he, he, he's a leader.

00:37:51He has that leadership tangent and then some, and Todd Munkin, he was at Georgia had a ton

00:37:57of success there.

00:37:59Obviously he's been a head coach, albeit at the college level.

00:38:03He worked with some of those good LSU teams.

00:38:05He would interest me.

00:38:06He, he, he would be, uh, and I think his, his offense would, would fit well with Drake

00:38:11May.

00:38:12He's a little bit older.

00:38:13I don't know if people want like a younger coach.

00:38:14He's 58.

00:38:15I feel like they may try to stay with that younger coach mode, right?

00:38:19Vrabel's 10 years younger than him.

00:38:21And he's probably the oldest guy we've talked about in terms of head coaching.

00:38:26I don't even think Ben Johnson's 40 yet.

00:38:27Right.

00:38:28He's like 38.

00:38:29So Monica might be a little old, but that's an interesting name.

00:38:32Yeah.

00:38:33Ben Johnson's 38.

00:38:3438.

00:38:35Someone in the chat said Gruden.

00:38:36Yeah.

00:38:37That's not going to happen for a million reasons.

00:38:39I, it would be fascinating.

00:38:42It would be fascinating.

00:38:45Not this, not happening, especially not this team.

00:38:47Not right now.

00:38:48Yep.

00:38:49Uh, someone said Mayo to Boston college with Billy.

00:38:51Oh, that is not going to happen.

00:38:54All we will say about that.

00:38:56That is not, I think, I think the more interesting thing would be if Mike Vrabel's hired here,

00:39:02does he call Bill O'Brien about the offensive coordinator job?

00:39:05That would be interesting.

00:39:09I don't know that he'd be the first one to get a call, but I think he'd be on the short

00:39:11list.

00:39:12I don't know.

00:39:13He loves Drake may.

00:39:14Oh yeah.

00:39:15I don't love like going to that type of offense with Billy or Josh McDaniels for Drake may

00:39:22just cause the language is so different, but would you not hire Vrabel if he says non-negotiable

00:39:28Josh McDaniels as my offensive coordinator?

00:39:32Do I have Ben Johnson on the line too?

00:39:36Yeah, but I mean, that's a, it's a complete and total pivot.

00:39:42I'd probably go with Ben Johnson at that point.

00:39:45I still think I'd go with Vrabel.

00:39:48Okay.

00:39:49Um, I, I, I believe in Drake may man.

00:39:51I believe in Drake may.

00:39:52I think he's he'll figure it out no matter what, right.

00:39:55It's not ideal, but then you also have that thing where like Josh McDaniels isn't going

00:40:00anywhere.

00:40:01It's going to be his offense for five, six years at least.

00:40:04Ben Johnson, it could be his offense for the rest of his career.

00:40:07Like you don't, you don't have to even worry about that.

00:40:11So it's, it's the same thing.

00:40:12It's just a different offense and I'll bring Ed McDaniels offense isn't bad.

00:40:16I don't like the way he sequences plays, but the offense itself is solid.

00:40:20The system is solid.

00:40:22It's just such a pivot language wise.

00:40:24Like the concepts are concepts, but just language wise, how much of a pivot is Johnson's offense?

00:40:31I don't think that much.

00:40:34I don't know.

00:40:35I have to do more research on Ben Johnson's offense as a whole, but he feels like someone

00:40:39who kind of molds it to, to the players, which I know that's a big thing you like.

00:40:43So we'll see what about Josh McDaniels does that too, unless you're going to kill Harry

00:40:49or Johnny Smith.

00:40:52That's fair.

00:40:53That's fair.

00:40:54Um, what about the real wild card?

00:40:55And I don't think they're going to do this, but we're a college football show as well.

00:40:59Are you Dan Lanning, Marcus Freeman, any of those college guys, like I'm not big on

00:41:05the college NFL path, but you know, maybe just interview those guys since 2000, there

00:41:11have been 12 coaches hired from college as first time NFL head coaches of those 12 to

00:41:18have records over 500 Harbaugh and Bill O'Brien six have records under 400.

00:41:25It doesn't work.

00:41:27It doesn't work.

00:41:28In a long time, Harbaugh is a very unique exception.

00:41:33Even O'Brien.

00:41:34I know he's the other one over 500, like he'd been in the NFL for a long time before he

00:41:37went to college and then he came back.

00:41:40So no, I'm out on college coaches.

00:41:42I guess if you want to interview him, you can.

00:41:45That's the one where I may draw a line and say it's a waste of time.

00:41:47I don't know.

00:41:48Like, again, I don't mean to say this to put down Dan Lanning.

00:41:51I think Dan Lanning, even in the way he lost to Ohio state, I think Dan Lanning's the best

00:41:56coach in college football.

00:41:57I don't know how much he's informing an NFL operation at this point.

00:42:01He's a college football lifer.

00:42:02That's what he's done.

00:42:03That's what he knows.

00:42:05I don't know how much you're getting from him for, I mean, call him, I guess, whatever.

00:42:10It's not my time, but I don't know how much, like, what, what are you getting out of that

00:42:15conversation?

00:42:16I don't know.

00:42:17I've never been to the head coach interview, but he's going to tell you, cause you're going

00:42:24to talk to him about program building cause that's his thing.

00:42:27And he's going to tell you how he built the program at Oregon, but he did that with 18,

00:42:3019, 20 year old kids.

00:42:33So I don't know how, how relevant it is.

00:42:36Yup.

00:42:37There's way too much Ryan day in our chat right now that will, no, no, no.

00:42:40I did this.

00:42:42If they hire Ryan day to be the head coach, I'll be the end of Patriots beat.

00:42:45Like I'll tell you that I'm, I'm not covering that logging off and logging off and never

00:42:49coming back.

00:42:50I seriously, I can't.

00:42:53That would know, uh, D D on, I'll take Dion before I'll take Ryan day for sure.

00:42:58Yeah, definitely over, over Ryan day.

00:43:01Um, how about, I guess, would you trade for the, you know, there's, there's rumors that,

00:43:06that Kevin O'Connell, I think there was some reports that like Mike Tomlin might be available.

00:43:10He needs a new contract.

00:43:12I'm out on trading for coaches.

00:43:14They need the draft picks way too much to do that.

00:43:17Don't get me wrong.

00:43:18I love Kevin O'Connell, but Kevin O'Connell costs the first rounder.

00:43:22So Peyton cost a first, second, and third when he'd been out of the league.

00:43:28Kevin O'Connell is going to be coach of the year in three coach of the year.

00:43:31You're probably talking about multiple firsts and then some, I would think that's crazy,

00:43:37which they can't, they can't afford to.

00:43:39No, no job.

00:43:40He's going to have nobody to coach.

00:43:41He's going to have no pliers.

00:43:42You're, you're going to be right back where you are now.

00:43:45Just could be Kevin O'Connell.

00:43:46Um, all right.

00:43:48Any last thoughts on Drodd Mayo, this coaching search, obviously a ton of information is

00:43:54going to be coming at us.

00:43:55We'll have it all, uh, updated here, but any last thoughts on any of that stuff or what

00:44:00Robert Kraft had to say, or we can move on.

00:44:03There was a football game yesterday.

00:44:05We can, we can move on to that if you don't have any closing thoughts, just super early

00:44:10in the coaching search.

00:44:11And the thing that interests me the most, look, objectively, I think it's down to Mike

00:44:15for Abel and Brian Johnson, Ben Johnson.

00:44:18They'll talk to other people.

00:44:19I'm sure we'll hear about them talking to other people, but you're either going to,

00:44:24like, those are the, it basically comes down to the two offensive or defensive coach or

00:44:29experienced or first-time head coach.

00:44:31Those are the two big differentiators and first-time head coach.

00:44:36Ben Johnson's the best available experienced head coach.

00:44:39Rable's the best available.

00:44:40And that's what you're using to determine who you want.

00:44:43If it's an offense, defense thing, Ben Johnson's the best available on offense.

00:44:47Mike variables, the best available on defense.

00:44:49It really just comes down to what they prefer, which craft was honestly asked today and said

00:44:53he didn't know yet, which I think is the right answer.

00:44:56I also liked it.

00:44:57He didn't answer a question about Mike Rable, like keep your, at the very least outwardly

00:45:02project that you're keeping your options open.

00:45:06Really keep them open internally as well, but we know how those, these things go.

00:45:10It's just a waiting game.

00:45:11At this point, it's going to be one of those two.

00:45:13The big thing for me is still the final say question.

00:45:16That's who has final say on the roster.

00:45:19That is as determinant to me as who the head coach is.

00:45:23Um, and I think that's, yeah, well, I don't think we'll have an answer Thursday.

00:45:28I don't think we'll have, or whenever we do our next show, we're doing a crossover actually

00:45:31Wednesday or Thursday.

00:45:33I don't think we'll have an answer when we do our show next Monday, probably late next

00:45:37week.

00:45:38I think is when we'll have the answer.

00:45:39They go to Kirby smart, by the way, out on Kirby smart.

00:45:42If it's Ben Johnson, they can't even hire him until he gets eliminated.

00:45:46So this could, I mean, you could figure it out and they'll be reporting.

00:45:52That's like the Patriots have stopped interviewing candidates and Johnson is viewed as the favorite.

00:45:58If you interview six candidates over the next two weeks and then four of them take jobs

00:46:04and then just sitting there until the super bowl or whatever, the lions get eliminated.

00:46:09Like you can put it where it's together, but you might, you really might not be able to

00:46:13kind of finalize this thing until when's the super bowl second week of February.

00:46:18Like if the lions go that far, obviously, but you know, they'll have first round by

00:46:22now.

00:46:23So this, uh, could kind of drag on if that's your guy, Vrabel on the other hand, like he's

00:46:28not under contract.

00:46:29So as soon as you satisfy league rules, like you could, you could dot the eyes and sign

00:46:34the T's and cross the paperwork, uh, on that one and have that done.

00:46:38So we'll see, uh, what that process, uh, looks like and, and how that unfolds.

00:46:43But it does seem like it is going to be, uh, one of those two, Oh, one, one good name thrown

00:46:48in at the buzzer by Niko, Cliff Canesbury.

00:46:51No, I want them to be good in December.

00:46:54Fair.

00:46:55Hey, the commanders kind of beat the cliff cliff cliff this year.

00:46:59A little bit.

00:47:00Well, they fell off in November.

00:47:01They just moved it up.

00:47:03They just, but then they recovered.

00:47:04So yeah, we'll see what they do in the playoffs.

00:47:06Yeah.

00:47:07But, uh, yeah, I'm not huge on cliff, but that's someone who's got ties to the organization

00:47:12as well.

00:47:13So, uh, we'll see, but let's talk about that football game yesterday and very quickly before

00:47:18we do that.

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00:48:28What time is it?

00:48:29Game time.

00:48:30All right.

00:48:31You, you had a squeak in a little Joe Milton and in the first coaching, we couldn't get

00:48:37through the whole coaching segment without some Joe Milton talk, but Joe Milton played.

00:48:41It was awesome.

00:48:42Let's hear about it.

00:48:43Take it away.

00:48:44No, it was great.

00:48:46It was, that was the Joe Milton experience, but tightened up.

00:48:51He Alex, Ann Pelt did a great job.

00:48:54Joe Milton did a fantastic job.

00:48:56And you see why I might, I go back to my take before, uh, before the draft, Joe Milton is

00:49:03the most exciting quarterback in that class.

00:49:05Now exciting doesn't mean best, but he was the most exciting quarterback in that class.

00:49:09And you saw why some of those plays he made yesterday, you just don't see guys make.

00:49:15And he does that semi regularly.

00:49:17Now what he usually also does regularly is turn ball over and he didn't do that.

00:49:21At least in this game, I'm not saying he's a hundred percent fixed, but I certainly think

00:49:27he's a guy you look at that can be the backup to Drake may the Patriots are going to need

00:49:30that.

00:49:31And if, if somebody were to offer me a top 100 pick for Joe Milton, I'd do that.

00:49:36You do that a second, right?

00:49:38Day three pick.

00:49:39You need a backup quarterback anyway, you're probably going to use a day three pick on

00:49:42a backup quarterback.

00:49:43At that point, I just hang on to Joe Milton, keep the development going, keep him in the

00:49:47building.

00:49:48He's your backup.

00:49:49He's going to be in the showcase game next year, gets his draft stock up a little higher.

00:49:54And then put the $8 million you're paying Jacoby percent on a player, right?

00:49:58Cause you have a working contract.

00:50:01Exactly.

00:50:02So super happy for Joe, obviously.

00:50:04I'm really happy.

00:50:06Everybody got to see kind of what I've been excited about.

00:50:09You heard people like gasping and laughing in the press box and some of the, the, the

00:50:13throws he was making.

00:50:14Cause that's just in people in the sense, cause that's just a reaction you get when

00:50:17you watch him play football.

00:50:19So, um, I'm happy that he got to do that on that stage and yeah, I top 100 pick I'm keeping

00:50:24them or I'm trading them.

00:50:26Anything else I'm keeping them as the backup.

00:50:28Yep.

00:50:29Yep.

00:50:30I think that's right.

00:50:31But like, again, credit to AVP and the coaching staff for their work with him because you

00:50:36know, the footwork, the timing he played with the accuracy, like he was never really known

00:50:41for that was his thing, you know, throw it 90 yards or whatever you're saying was like

00:50:47he just could never really control the arm and the inaccuracy.

00:50:50Like he was 22 of 29 or something like that yesterday, like extremely accurate.

00:50:56So great work with him.

00:50:58You saw the physical tools like rolling out in the pocket.

00:51:01That's the best throw was maybe the incompletion, the pop Douglas in the end zone where he's

00:51:05running all around and then just fires like one of the fastest throws next gen stats has

00:51:10ever recorded into the end zone.

00:51:12So he's a fun player and you know, maybe it was just one game against backups that

00:51:17you know, they beat the, the costly turnover or two out of him, but he looked awesome and

00:51:22you know what?

00:51:23So for a backup quarterback, if he's going to be that against backup caliber players

00:51:29like that shows he can be a high level caliber backup, which it's not a bad thing to have

00:51:34at the quarterback positions.

00:51:36Really not.

00:51:37So yeah.

00:51:38Yeah.

00:51:39And I will say, you know, people were being like, oh, it was a, it was a preseason game.

00:51:44Like no, that was, those were, it was backups, but those are backups on an NFL roster.

00:51:49Those are right.

00:51:50The preseason game is lost out to those guys.

00:51:54Those aren't 70 through 90 on the 90 man roster.

00:51:56Those are 40 through 53 on a 53 man roster.

00:52:00So it was still very impressive.

00:52:03Happy for Joe Milton.

00:52:04You know, dude, hasn't taken a live snap since the last week of the preseason.

00:52:08And then to go out there and do that, it was, you know, unbelievable.

00:52:12So maybe they do have this asset there where it's either going to be valuable as a cheap

00:52:16backup quarterback, or if some team really wants to get silly and make a trade for them,

00:52:22it was good to see that.

00:52:23But the bad news of that game was they did win and they slipped down out of the number

00:52:29one pick to the number four pick.

00:52:31I've seen, also seen a lot of people saying they should have straight up tank the game

00:52:36and they, they, I mean, I don't know how many times you have to explain this.

00:52:41It's not how it works.

00:52:42They did their best.

00:52:44Like they played three plays.

00:52:47A lot of the, you know, Michael went and got pulled right away.

00:52:50A lot of the veteran defender, defensive players didn't play the second half.

00:52:54Like they did everything they could instead of outside of just like taking a knee and

00:52:59punting the ball every play and lying down on defense, like, and you can't ask those

00:53:04players to do that because you, you have, you know, miles battle and Truman Jones guys

00:53:09who are playing for the first time, like they have to put good film on tape to either come

00:53:13back here next year or their future elsewhere.

00:53:17So you can't ask the players, I guess one of the other questions going around the X

00:53:20machine was, would you have fired Gerard Mayo before the game in order just to cause maximum

00:53:28chaos and hope to increase your odds of losing that game?

00:53:31I'll say it back like Gerard Mayo benched a lot of their starters.

00:53:35So I don't think that was the issue, but did you have any issue with how they approach

00:53:40that game on Sunday and ultimately winning and losing out on the first overall pick?

00:53:44No, you have to take a professional approach to see that you just do, I, if anything, screw

00:53:49the bills for what they did and, and football karma is going to come back around and get

00:53:52them.

00:53:53I really hope so.

00:53:55So like I said, Kyle's going to go out there, they're going to put on tape, you know, coaches

00:54:00probably knew they were coaching for their jobs.

00:54:02I don't think Mayo knew that he was going to get fired, but the fact that he did so

00:54:05quickly after the game, he had to at least have an idea of what was going on.

00:54:08So I said it last week, everybody's talking about play Joe Milton, get the first overall

00:54:13pick.

00:54:14How do you know?

00:54:15Joe Milton's not going to go out there and sling it.

00:54:16Now the defense kind of let me down.

00:54:18I didn't think the defense was going to play that well.

00:54:21That's how good the backups were up with the starters all year.

00:54:24But no, he's let you down, right?

00:54:27Yeah.

00:54:28Mike White really let me down that.

00:54:29I've always said Mike White's one of the better backup quarterbacks in football, but I guess

00:54:31not.

00:54:32Um, that's yeah, I, I, I'm not going to get on them for not purposely throwing the game.

00:54:36I just think that's a gross misunderstanding of how this thing works.

00:54:40Um, and like I've said, I, I still think they can have the off season they need to have

00:54:45from the fourth overall pick certainly doesn't help.

00:54:48You know, it makes it a lot more difficult.

00:54:49The bigger issue is you don't have those extra assets in 2026.

00:54:53That's when you'll feel this more.

00:54:55Uh, but I, I don't want to hear if the roster isn't fixed when we get to training camp,

00:55:02I don't want to hear, well, they shouldn't have beat the bills.

00:55:05No, they can still do everything they need to do from where they're assigned to draft.

00:55:12That's not an excuse.

00:55:13If they don't get it done, it's just a bad job by the front office, period, full stop.

00:55:19This game doesn't change that.

00:55:20So I don't want to hear this game uses an excuse for why they're not good.

00:55:24If they don't make the changes they need to make and they're not good enough next year.

00:55:28Yep.

00:55:29And obviously Alec makes a good point.

00:55:30They lost the more important one last year.

00:55:32Yeah.

00:55:33So I would say that to somebody today, you take, obviously losing the number one pick

00:55:38isn't ideal because you do lose, lose those resources.

00:55:41You'd rather have it than not.

00:55:43But if you were gonna have the higher pick either last year or this year, it definitely

00:55:47was last year when you needed the quarterback and you got Drake Bay.

00:55:51Yeah.

00:55:52And they would have fallen like seven last year, I think.

00:55:54So they wouldn't have even been close to where they would have to be.

00:55:57They would have probably been in like Malik neighbors range.

00:56:00So you would have been like, I don't even think what did neighbors go six.

00:56:03He went six.

00:56:06So maybe if they were seventh, who had seven, uh, I, I, does tankathon go back a year like

00:56:11that?

00:56:12I'm trying to find it.

00:56:13I'm trying to find it.

00:56:14I'm trying to find it.

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00:58:33I'm trying to find it.

00:58:34I'm trying to find it.

00:58:35I'm trying to find it.

00:58:36I'm trying to find it.

00:58:37Yeah.

00:58:38I mean, that, that should put you in range for a tackle or a neck, a Buka.

00:58:42If you go, you know, depending on what you do at the top of the draft, maybe even Jack

00:58:45Sawyer.

00:58:46I'm kind of looking here and trying to see like past trades, um, but they, they should

00:58:51still be able to get it.

00:58:53They should still be able to get it done.

00:58:54They should still be able to do what they need to do.

00:58:57It shouldn't impact them in any way.

00:59:00Not this year.

00:59:01Like next year, you know, you could have had two first round picks next year.

00:59:04Now you only have one that's substantially different.

00:59:07So by the way, did you notice my whole conspiracy theory about everybody was saying the quarterbacks

00:59:11were bad just to dump on the Patriots and downplay them actually having something good

00:59:15happen to them.

00:59:16You notice today, suddenly not only is there a ton of pub for Shader Sanders and camp ward,

00:59:21but now we're hearing about how great your hour is and he may go to the draft and, uh,

00:59:26suddenly the quarterback classes is so bad.

00:59:28So I wonder if that was just a narrative because people hate the Patriots.

00:59:32I wonder who was screaming that to the rooftops last week.

00:59:35Too bad.

00:59:36We won't see it play out in fruition, but I would just like to point that out.

00:59:41So what, what do you think the, what do you think the top three is?

00:59:44It's a, let's pull up the order Titans.

00:59:48Sorry, real quick to get up to 27, a couple of years ago, the bucks gave up 33, one Oh

00:59:59six and one 80.

01:00:01So you can maybe do something like that to get to like 30, 31.

01:00:06So that's the top three, uh, Shader to Tennessee, Cleveland's the wild card.

01:00:10And they said, uh, there was a report to Sean Watson, a setback in his recovery.

01:00:14The fact that reworked these contract, the way he did made me think like, all right,

01:00:19they're going to go best player available, top of the draft.

01:00:21They're probably a day two quarterback team, either the will Levis or Jalen hurt strategy,

01:00:27depending on how you want to look at it.

01:00:29And then if that guy doesn't work out, they'd be back in the market year or two.

01:00:32If Watson's not going to be back, that maybe changes things.

01:00:35I could totally see them going Travis Hunter though.

01:00:39Um, and then the giants are kind of the same thing.

01:00:43Do they go in the market for Sam Darnold?

01:00:45Like I, I don't think you're going to get, you could get both, I guess.

01:00:49But at that point, the giants probably trade three, but the giants are bringing day ball

01:00:53in Joe Shane back and it sounds like they have a playoff or bust attached to that.

01:01:00So they might be in that veteran quarterback market where they're looking at this and saying,

01:01:03like, is the quarterback we get a three going to get us to the playoffs next year or is

01:01:08it going to be, I don't know who else is available.

01:01:11Sam Darnold, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rogers, he wants to stay in New York, but just goes

01:01:17jets to giant.

01:01:18So they, they could be a veteran veteran quarterback move there.

01:01:20So yeah.

01:01:21Do you think there's any chance that like one of those quarterbacks drops to four and

01:01:26then you're able to trade out still, you know, Vegas is sitting there.

01:01:31At six, new Orleans is sitting there at nine or is the trade down dream kind of dead there?

01:01:36I feel like at that point, when one of those, when the giants or Browns trade down probably

01:01:41for the quarterbacks, like it, you know, the, the, the, I don't do trades, mock drafts are

01:01:46going to be super weird this year, but I, at that point I would think one of the, if

01:01:52not, yeah, you can absolutely move yours.

01:01:54But I, yeah, I, I think at that point, one of those teams would trade down.

01:01:59One of them will take Hunter.

01:02:00The other one will trade down for the other quarterback.

01:02:02Makes sense.

01:02:03Yeah.

01:02:04I could see Cleveland maybe dropping down, going to get like Mason Graham or one of the

01:02:09edge guys moving down a few spots, but, um, Patriots at number four, they'll be picking

01:02:15fourth.

01:02:16You have a, a favorite right now, January 6th, you have a, you have a front runner for

01:02:20number four.

01:02:22It's assuming it goes to quarterbacks and, uh, and, uh, Travis Hunter.

01:02:28I mean, you're looking at one of the trenches, trenches, trenches, trenches.

01:02:32We got to see how long will Carter, uh, will Campbell's arms are.

01:02:36But trenches, trenches, trenches, Campbell banks, Carter, one of those three, we had

01:02:42a super chat.

01:02:44You said my head wants Kelvin banks.

01:02:46My heart wants to listen to your head.

01:02:47I know.

01:02:48I know y'all want the guy you can draft in fantasy, but this bill football team here.

01:02:52Yep.

01:02:53And now if they don't, if they don't go out and get a receiver in free agency or trade,

01:02:58I might feel different, but just the way they've aggressively pursued Calvin Ridley, Brandon,

01:03:04I Ukraine guys like that.

01:03:06Um, I think they're gonna do that again.

01:03:09Seattle fired Ryan Grubb change coming to that offense.

01:03:12Very possible.

01:03:13Sure.

01:03:14Wouldn't be nice to have some extra picks to help with that.

01:03:17I just can't trade Jalen Polk there anymore, but I'm not quitting the DK Metcalf.

01:03:25I'm not quitting now until it's over and they shouldn't either until he gets extended

01:03:30or traded.

01:03:31We're going to be here and they should be in on him.

01:03:34And I, the more I talk to people in Cincinnati, the more I think T Higgins is going back and

01:03:43going back before he hits the open market.

01:03:47So it's not like a, well, you think he's going back?

01:03:49What if the Patriots get the offer in front of him?

01:03:51I don't think they're going to get a chance.

01:03:53So, and also just we'll cover this base out on Tyree kill out on top of all the other

01:04:01BS luggage that he has 31 year old wide receiver with a chronic wrist injury who doesn't play

01:04:06well in the cold.

01:04:08Enjoy Kansas city.

01:04:09I think he's going back Kansas city, no interest in Tyree kill none whatsoever that can only

01:04:15go poorly.

01:04:16I'd take him if it was cheap, but it's not going to be cheap and they're not, if it's

01:04:20an indivision trade, it's, it's probably not going to be cheap.

01:04:24So they might have to cut them.

01:04:25I mean, he wants them to cut them.

01:04:26Did you see his new profile picture on Twitter and Tony O'Brien?

01:04:30Yeah.

01:04:31What I will say, I will take Wes Welker, their wide receivers coach.

01:04:35I would absolutely take Wes Welker.

01:04:37I mentioned last show or maybe last week, you know, if Tyree kill is out of there soon

01:04:41as Wes Welker want to start somewhere new, I will definitely take Wes Welker as the next

01:04:47wide receiver coach, pass game coordinator, whatever title you want to give them their

01:04:52draft.

01:04:53Yeah.

01:04:54I agree.

01:04:55Trenches.

01:04:56I really like Abdul Carter.

01:04:57Hopefully he, he plays in the college football playoff this week.

01:05:00I know he was a little banged up, so, but Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, one of those linemen

01:05:06trenches, trenches, trenches, definitely, definitely agree there.

01:05:11So any last thoughts on anything at all Patriots from the last 26, 27 hours there, or we can,

01:05:19we can wrap this one up.

01:05:21I think that's pretty much it.

01:05:23All right.

01:05:25We will wrap it up again.

01:05:27Busy couple busy day.

01:05:30I keep wanting to say a couple of days, but just busy day in the news is going to keep

01:05:34coming in.

01:05:35We will be back, believe Thursday.

01:05:38We're not set at the stone yet.

01:05:39We're going to get with Mike and Taylor and do an end of season crossover, kind of reset

01:05:45and recap everything.

01:05:46In the meantime, you can also follow Barth for all the live Patriots updates, news, all

01:05:51this coaching stuff at real Alex Barth on Twitter, 95, the sports hub.com.

01:05:56You can follow me on Twitter at I am Brian Heinz, head over to Pat's pulpit.com.

01:06:01We just put up another coaching tracker.

01:06:04We put it out and I had a deal of a big sigh that we're doing this again, but our coaching

01:06:08tracker copy and paste the last one.

01:06:12I think we probably did that, but we'll have to keep updating it now with all these rumors

01:06:17and come and stuff that comes out.

01:06:18So any, if you want your live coaching staff updates, Pat's pulpit.com, we have a tracker

01:06:23up there for you guys.

01:06:25And of course, Patriots press pass, make sure you're subscribed to the channel for all your

01:06:29live updates coming at you.

01:06:31So thank you everyone for tuning in with us tonight.

01:06:35We will see you guys later this week, right?

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