CLNS Media's Taylor Kyles and SI's Mike Kadlick go LIVE to break down Robert Kraft's press conference and discuss the Patriots requesting to interview Ben Johnson:
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SportsTranscript
00:00I am joined by Robert Griffin III, James Whitefield, Yates Mena Kimes.
00:10All right, so first play we're going to look at, second and two, one of the Patriots' first
00:13offensive plays.
00:18What's going on, everybody?
00:19Mike Kadlik and Taylor Kyles here for CLNS Media, back with another edition of the Patriots
00:25Daily Podcast, and the first Patriots Daily Podcast in quite some time without Gerard
00:31Mayo as the Patriots' head coach.
00:33As you all know by now, Robert Kraft released a statement last night following the Patriots'
00:38win over the Buffalo Bills that they have fired head coach Gerard Mayo after one, four,
00:44and 13 season.
00:45Myself and Taylor Kyles were just down in Foxborough, and Robert Kraft spoke.
00:53He spoke with the media.
00:54He took full accountability for hiring Gerard Mayo too early.
00:59We do have a transcript that I'll pull a couple things from.
01:03Basically, myself and Taylor kind of want to break that down here.
01:07We'll talk about Kraft, the things he told us this afternoon, the vibe in and around
01:11the Patriots' locker room.
01:12There was one final locker cleanup down at Gillette as well today, so we were there and
01:16we're going to talk a little bit about that.
01:18And then we're going to shift focus to the coaching search because everybody's talking
01:21about Mike Vrabel right now and how that is likely the Patriots' sort of North Star.
01:28I don't want to use North Star.
01:29That was Gerard Mayo saying he used the North Star a lot.
01:33We'll take that out.
01:34But they did also request to interview Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson today, which
01:39is the other big news.
01:40So we're going to talk about Ben Johnson and his potential fit with the Patriots as well.
01:44But first of all, Taylor, let's just talk a little bit here about what Robert Kraft
01:48had to say.
01:49It was very forthcoming.
01:50As I mentioned, the big quote right off the bat, at least for me, was basically that he
01:55just said, I'm going to be brief and say this the entire thing is on.
02:00Why do we keep moving around?
02:01I don't know.
02:02Ahmed, what are you doing?
02:03What's going on?
02:04I guess we'll do that.
02:05OK, Robert Kraft said it's on me and that he feels terrible that he put Gerard in that
02:13situation.
02:14I thought that was noteworthy, the fact that they kind of set the whole thing up and it
02:20clearly didn't work out.
02:21And he took the blame for it.
02:22So your takeaways on the Robert Kraft press conference and where they go from here as
02:26far as, you know, as far as that coaching search, I think it was appropriate for Robert
02:31Kraft to take responsibility because the brunt of the blame does fall on him.
02:36I think we spent a lot of time talking about Gerard Mayo, where the in-game decision making
02:41was lacking.
02:42He made a lot of promises that he didn't and couldn't end up keeping, obviously the media
02:46mishaps.
02:47We also have what seemed like a further eroding culture where it didn't seem like people were
02:52on the same page.
02:53You had the Antonio Gibson or Andre Stevenson incident where it seemed like the offensive
02:57coordinator and the running backs weren't on the same page, kind of gave a glimpse into
03:02maybe some of the dysfunction going on.
03:03So we knew about that.
03:05But bottom line, Robert Kraft panicked when Gerard Mayo started getting head coaching
03:10interviews, admitted that he didn't want to lose Gerard, who he had seen grow up as a
03:14player.
03:15I knew him since Gerard was a rookie in the NFL, who was a career patriot, obviously left
03:20the nest for a while, the pursuit media and the pursuit business, and he ends up coming
03:23back and obviously rises up the ranks as a defensive coach.
03:27And every year that he worked on that defensive staff, they had a good defense.
03:30So I get why Kraft did it, but it does seem like a glaring, glaring miss in hindsight.
03:37And to many people at the time, they were really on top of the fact that a head coaching
03:41search was needed.
03:43It felt like such a kind of Hollywood story there, you know, like the prodigal son returns
03:47and, you know, takes over.
03:49I'm going to cut you off.
03:50If you haven't read Taylor Kyle's is a sort of obituary, frankly, on Gerard Mayo's entire
03:55season as Patriots head coach, go check it out because a lot of great creative writing
03:59in there.
04:00And he mentioned the fact that it is it was a Hollywood story turned into a complete disaster
04:04of a horror film.
04:05But continue on.
04:06Sorry.
04:07Yeah.
04:08And that was unfortunate.
04:09And a lot of that was because Gerard Mayo didn't have the connections that he needed.
04:11He didn't have, I think, the edge that a lot of these young coaches need to justify
04:15the fact that they don't have a lot of experience in the role, but they also bring forward thinking
04:20ideas that other people don't have.
04:21And I think that's a lot of the Mike Vrabel versus Ben Johnson thing, where do you go
04:25with the thing where, you know, pretty much exactly what you're going to get from a head
04:28coaching perspective, even if he's not going to call plays for you and give you necessarily
04:32a schematic edge.
04:33Or do you go with the Ben Johnson where, unlike Mayo, he does give you like the analytics
04:38background.
04:39He gives you the innovative play calling, play design, and all those things.
04:43But you have no idea what he's like as a leader of men.
04:45You don't know necessarily, or at least we don't, what his staff's going to look like,
04:48all those things.
04:49And for Gerard, it looks so, so bad.
04:52And I know at least for us in hindsight, when you look at it and say, he didn't really have
04:56anything to hang his hat on.
04:58A lot of the staff was filled out by Elliot Wolfe and all those things.
05:01And again, this all comes back to Robert, because you put Gerard in this position.
05:05He probably didn't fully understand what he was getting into.
05:08But you, as someone who has been in charge for so long and hired multiple head coaches,
05:12should have had a better idea of the fact that Gerard Mayo was not prepared for this
05:17job.
05:18So it was nice to hear him say that a little too late.
05:22But I do believe that, I know nationally, I think this firing has a really weird perception
05:27where people think it was a race thing, which I understand.
05:30I am also sensitive to the fact that sometimes in this region, it's not even like we make
05:34it up.
05:35Because we've had people in this chat call him a DEI hire.
05:38And those kind of sentiments that are like, yeah, some people kind of just assholes.
05:42And they are going to make it about race.
05:44And they did maybe in some way kind of root for him to fail for their own reasons.
05:49But I don't think even we're anywhere near the majority of people.
05:53And that's what the perception is.
05:54It was either that or that he deserved another year.
05:56Like I know Justina Anderson keeps saying that he deserved to grow.
06:01But then the counter is, what was he going to grow into?
06:03Did he show you where you hang your head and say, oh, in a year or two, or two or three
06:08years down the road, Jarrod Mayo is going to be really good at.
06:12Right, he'll look like this.
06:14Like what was the, I'm going back to the North Star.
06:16What was the, like, what did you want out of this guy?
06:19That's still kind of the TBD that I don't fully understand.
06:22Exactly.
06:23So that's kind of the area where it kind of, it kind of loses me a little bit.
06:29But going forward, at least if they're going to do this head coaching search, kind of just
06:33bring it back around that.
06:34Cause I got sidetracked.
06:35It's all good.
06:37I think if you want Vrabel and he's at the top of your list right now, I think that's
06:40fine.
06:41But I also like the fact that they are bringing in Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson's reportedly interested
06:46in it.
06:47This is not a shame interview.
06:48If you're bringing in Ben Johnson, you're serious.
06:49You're not bringing in like Thomas Brown, who just kind of flamed out as the interim
06:53with the bears.
06:54And you know that maybe you're going to interview him for like position, but not head coach.
06:58Ben Johnson, very different.
06:59Now it is kind of odd the way that they're going about it.
07:04I think all the coaching staff, they're still going to be in place until whatever happens
07:07with the head coach.
07:08Give them a chance.
07:09I think that's smart because if you can find some way to retain Alex Van Pelt and TC McCartney,
07:13I say you do it as long as you don't have other people that you'd rather replace because
07:17you trust them more.
07:18That's the obvious caveat there.
07:20But then the fact that Elliot Wolfe and Alonzo Highsmith are going to be in these meetings
07:24and be part of the decision when it comes to the head coach who might not even want
07:28to keep them around, because I think the front office and the coaching staff are in similar
07:33positions where maybe the front office has a bit more stability because it's so uncommon
07:36to just completely clear house after one year.
07:39But at the same time, like I know Ben Johnson likes Elliot Wolfe.
07:43That might be a nice match.
07:44But if Mike Frabel doesn't want Elliot Wolfe around, but Mike Frabel has the best plan
07:48and the best connections and everything, how does that work exactly?
07:52Do the craft just say, hey, it's our, you know, it's our business.
07:55We veto you.
07:56I'm sorry.
07:57That's just how it goes.
07:58I, you know, it's not fair, but that's just business.
08:00And we have to steward our organization in a different direction.
08:03I don't know.
08:04It's going to be very interesting to see.
08:06But I thought that Robert did handle this press conference pretty well.
08:09I wish there were more questions we could have asked.
08:10I feel like there was a lot left on the table.
08:13But overall, like didn't have any big gaffes, which is a nice change of pace for the first
08:17time in a long time.
08:18We've been to the yeah, you know, like really bad banner headlines or anything.
08:22So yeah, we'll have to see how exactly involved Elliot Wolfe and Alonzo Highsmith are actually
08:28going to be.
08:29But yeah, going back to the beginning, also, I'm just glad the craft kind of nipped it
08:32in the bud.
08:33It was like, yeah, this is my fault, because I think he really did want Gerard to succeed.
08:37I just think there were way too many factors that got in the way and just made it like
08:41he said, untenable.
08:43And I did.
08:44I do.
08:45Again, I I'm trying not to give him too much credit because ultimately they did make the
08:50decision and it did fail and it was incredibly short sighted.
08:55In the same breath, we've sat here on the show and continued and sort of the national
09:00perspective on it has been that no craft is going to stick to his guns and prove himself
09:05right and let Gerard see this through.
09:08And it clearly came to a point, as as Kraft mentioned this afternoon over the last month
09:14or so that, yeah, this probably isn't going in the right direction.
09:17And I did think, too, that in his statement last night where he mentioned.
09:23I was nervous that he was going to get poached by somebody else.
09:27So I made you didn't say it in this as many words, but basically I made a rash decision
09:32that I can't let him go elsewhere.
09:34So I'm going to keep him here.
09:35And he clearly wasn't ready because, again, as we know now, Bill Belichick wasn't on board
09:40with teaching him the ways and showing him the ropes.
09:43And so that made an awkward division.
09:46And then he wasn't able to fully learn how to be a head coach.
09:49He was really only ever a position coach and a leader.
09:52And it's so much more than that to coaching football.
09:55So again, not to give again, I don't want to give ownership a ton of credit because
09:59like I said, they made the move, but good on them to not stick to their guns too much
10:05here and keep it going forward.
10:07Just because, well, I thought it was going to be like that.
10:09I don't want to look bad after one season because they had always said to it's going
10:13to be a longer term rebuild.
10:15I know we're not going to get as many wins this year.
10:17It's going to take time.
10:18But even if it's going to take time, it's probably going to take more time with the
10:21guy they just had because it was going in such a poor direction.
10:24And Robert Kraft kind of pulled the mayo where he put his foot in his own mouth and he set
10:28a pretty bad precedent when he, I was reading somebody brought up, I forgot about this,
10:32where he compared the instinct he followed to hire Mayo to what he chose, what he used
10:37when he married his wives, which is like, there was a lot of things that Kraft said
10:43in that introductory press conference for Mayo that really tethered them together and
10:47made it seem like Kraft thought he made this great discovery.
10:50And we have to give them some credit because we were back and forth on, are they going
10:55to let their egos get in the way?
10:56Are they really just not going to bite the bullet and say, Hey, we can't be wrong because
11:00it started to feel like, well, if you do that, it's very short-sighted because you are going
11:03to be proven wrong eventually because there's not enough of this to actually be positive
11:07about.
11:08Yeah, it's man, it's, you can, you can tell that it really did emotionally impact Robert.
11:14Like, Oh yeah, it's not, it, it, I know that Gerard said like it was an emotional locker
11:19room and everything.
11:20And the statement last night sounded like Kraft was, you know, very emotionally invested.
11:25And I think, I know he was, so moving on, moving forward.
11:30There is a huge human angle to this that I know people don't look over, but as, as, as
11:36much as, Gerard Meyer was like public enemy number one right now in and around Foxborough
11:43and in Patriots nation.
11:44And it's nearly impossible for him to bring it back.
11:47And he was, yes, he was on injured reserve, but he was a super bowl champion.
11:51He was a captain in his second year.
11:53He was a fan favorite when he played and to go from that to where he is now, that's gotta
11:59be incredibly hard on this guy for him to have to walk into that office after yesterday's
12:03game and for them to fire him.
12:05For him, he's basically, you know, he's looked down on terribly by the Patriots now.
12:11And that's a dude who has to go live the rest of his life, who didn't prove enough on the
12:16football field as a coach where what's his next step?
12:18No.
12:19Yeah.
12:20He's made a ton of money in his career and financially he might be fine, but as a human,
12:23that really sucks.
12:24And same with Robert Kraft, someone who you've been so close with since he was on the team
12:29to have to put all this faith in him.
12:31I rewatched last night, Gerard's opening press conference and Kraft was so, so proud
12:37to call him their next head coach.
12:39He was naming all of his family, Gerard's kids, his brother and sister, Gerard's wife,
12:46his mother.
12:47And it was like both sides were so proud that they were able to bring this and for it to
12:51fail so badly on all ends.
12:53And for Robert to have to have that conversation yesterday, it just, it sucks from a human
12:58level, but ultimately it was the right move.
13:01And I think we can all sort of agree on that there.
13:02All right.
13:03Before we get in to the Ben Johnson stuff quickly, last thing on Kraft and where things
13:08are at front office wise, he did mention that no front office moves have been made yet.
13:14I know you talked about it a little bit, but I want to get to kind of where it feels a
13:17little backwards right now and why it's still so much up in the air.
13:21The front office is still intact.
13:22The rest of the coaching staff, according to Kraft, also still intact.
13:25I know last night on our show, if you guys were watching, I did mention a report from
13:30the Boston Globe that Van Pelt has been fired.
13:33According to other reports, Van Pelt is still under contract as the Patriots OC as of right
13:37now.
13:38Obviously fluid things will change with that next head coach.
13:41But it's interesting and you sort of mentioned it, but I want to get your take on it again
13:45and kind of parse it out a little bit.
13:48Kraft was asked about the front office and the coaching search and that Elliott Wolf
13:51and Alonzo Highsmith will be in those interviews, which tells me that they're going to have
13:57some say on what we think we should be on the next head coach.
14:01But before that, Kraft was asked about the front office and said, basically, we need
14:07to find the head coach.
14:08They're going to have a heavy, heavy hand in the personnel decision-making.
14:12And so my take on that or my kind of thought theory, and we talked about it a little bit
14:17this afternoon off air, I wonder if this could be a thing where, okay, Rabel, Ben Johnson,
14:24whomever ends up coming in, gives sort of their, their plan, their game plan on how
14:30they want to, um, you know, what kind of players they want to coach.
14:35And then they give that to the personnel department and then it's the personnel department's job
14:40to get those types of players for the head coach.
14:42And if it's almost like giving power to the coach, but also, so he's like kind of over
14:51the personnel department, it's, it's kind of ass backwards right now.
14:54And that's why even what I'm saying is kind of confusing because then Wolf's involved
14:58in that they hire Vrabel, but what if Vrabel doesn't want to work with Wolf?
15:02And then they have to fire Wolf and Highsmith after they just hired, like, it all feels
15:05kind of backwards.
15:06And I'm curious where it's actually going to go here over the next couple of days, because
15:10there's still so much information that's ultimately going to come in.
15:13And I wonder if there'd be like a transition period, at least where if I really think it's
15:18going to come down to Ben Johnson, Mike Vrabel.
15:20I think that if the Patriots want, I'm guessing in this completely speculation, they will
15:27either want to go with Vrabel because they know what he is.
15:29He brings a familiar type of culture, but also outside experience and basically sells
15:33you the same thing that Mayo was, except he's been qualified.
15:36He's been around the league.
15:37He has connections, all of those things.
15:39And then I think if they don't hire him, I think they would lean towards more of an offensive
15:43guru, because if you're not going to get the surefire thing, you probably want the guy
15:48who's going to be able to pair really well with Drake May and just completely maximize
15:51the offense with, you know, cutting edge play calling and philosophies and things like that.
15:55So I think it's going to be between those two guys.
15:58I have a feeling that I think both want to be collaborative.
16:01Ben Johnson, I will be reported.
16:03He has a lot of respect for Elliott Wills.
16:04So there's a chance that even if Elliott doesn't stay in the same role, necessarily, maybe
16:10if Ben Johnson did want to bring somebody, they could still work together.
16:13And I think Vrabel has a similar kind of idea.
16:16Maybe it's more of a transition year where you're not just kicking Elliott Wills to the
16:18curb, but you're saying, hey, let's see if these staffs can work together.
16:21If they can't, maybe we will go our separate ways.
16:23I don't know.
16:24It's it's it's odd.
16:25It's just it is.
16:26I think you never have a normal type of search.
16:29Obviously, we had the freaking one where Mayo was already locked in and you had no chance
16:33of having a real search.
16:34Now, this year, you already have the GM, but you fire the head coach after a year.
16:37So it's a kind of situation where the the pseudo general manager has even gotten a chance
16:42to really show what he can do in terms of player acquisition because the roster was
16:46in such bad shape when he took over.
16:48So I don't know.
16:49This is new for us.
16:50We'll see.
16:51And we will learn as it goes.
16:53But it's definitely a very interesting at the very least situation.
16:56And worst, it's just like kind of funky.
16:59Did you see?
17:00Did you see Belichick's comments about Mayo is non comments?
17:04Yeah.
17:05Basically, just say that he said about the team in a long time.
17:08It's Robert Jonathan and Robin Glazer that run that team.
17:10I thought it was interesting.
17:11I thought the game dropped her and then said Mayo was handpicked.
17:14And then at the end, he jokes.
17:15I thought it was funny the way he left.
17:16He was like, yeah, they haven't called me about it.
17:18So I don't know.
17:19He's like that.
17:20That's not my problem anymore.
17:21But interesting stuff from Robert Kraft this afternoon.
17:25So that's kind of the piece on that.
17:27We're going to get into now the big news of today or the other big news, really, that
17:32Ben Johnson has been requested by the Patriots to interview for the job.
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20:34And even though it's not in the read anymore, Taylor, what time is it?
20:38Game time.
20:39It is game time.
20:40And it's also time to talk about not Mike Vrabel, but Ben Johnson, sorry, it took a
20:47little while.
20:48I couldn't get a third up there, but Ben Johnson, according to multiple reports, Albert Breer
20:53from Sports Illustrated, my coworker over at Sports Illustrated, was on the news first
21:00and foremost today and that it's the Patriots requesting Lyons OC Ben Johnson.
21:04So it's not a short-sighted search.
21:06It's not just Mike Vrabel or bust, obviously, Rooney Rule, external search, all has to be
21:11done now that there's no succession plan in place.
21:14But I know that the both of us, we talked about it last night on the channel, if you
21:18haven't checked it out, where we were in the Patriots, the Gillette Stadium parking lot,
21:22talking about how Mike Vrabel should be the answer.
21:25But this adds a little wrinkle to it because it's not like they're doing Vrabel and then
21:30the external search sham, right?
21:32They're not just bringing in a couple of guys and focusing on Vrabel.
21:35They're bringing in the top guns.
21:36Ben Johnson is the, uh, him and Vrabel, but you know, this one of the two hottest commodities
21:42on the head coaching market and the Patriots are requesting to interview him.
21:46Now, Albert Breer actually did report earlier this season as well that Johnson isn't going
21:50to take these head coaching, uh, interviews lately.
21:53He's going to only take jobs where he wants to be.
21:56And that tells me that the Patriots know that, you know, he might be interested in this job
22:00and it's been reported elsewhere that he is interested in that.
22:02He's probably going to take the interview.
22:03So while it's not official yet, sounds like he will be in the building to make his case.
22:08So I know we're on Vrabel, but your thoughts on Ben Johnson, would it make sense?
22:12Could you be convinced into Ben Johnson becoming the next head coach of the Northern Patriots?
22:17I wouldn't say one thing.
22:18It kind of feels like the football gods have given the Patriots some serious breaks.
22:24Like one, the fact that Mack Jones's last season, they just happened to be so bad.
22:29And like Chad Riley, this is just kicks that you're in position to get Drake May, who was
22:33arguably the best quarterback in the draft.
22:36And then the year after you were not an appealing destination at all, Mike Vrabel and Ben Johnson,
22:41obviously Ben Johnson decided to stay in Detroit.
22:44Mike Vrabel didn't get a job, but now you have another chance at two of the best head
22:48coaching candidates on the market.
22:50I think that's pretty neat.
22:51I just hope they don't mess it up.
22:53But Ben Johnson, I'm really warming up.
22:55I'm doing more research.
22:57Obviously Mike Vrabel, I'm much more familiar with.
22:59You had the whole piece on him where it kind of brought everybody up to speed on where
23:02he's at right now.
23:04I will say I do not, I just start with Vrabes because I do not want to give him the benefit
23:07of the doubt.
23:08I'm not doing that anymore.
23:09I want to see what these guys can provide.
23:11I'm going off the track record that we know of.
23:13I will take the opinions of Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Berrion into consideration.
23:18I hope that he has matured and I hope that he is more analytically minded.
23:22I hope that the things he's learned about player development and things like that from
23:26Cleveland have sunk in and that he wants to be maybe not quite as critical of his players,
23:32just improving those ways.
23:34Because with Vrabel, you have that kind of proven commodity.
23:37If you know what you're going to get, does he have a good enough staff around him that
23:43you are confident that he can be that CEO type?
23:46Now with Ben Johnson, you're going with the lesser known commodity in terms of being that
23:50leader event, that culture center, all of those things.
23:53Now there have been reports that Ben Johnson is basically just a less, I don't want to
23:58say abrasive, but a less Dan Campbell-y Dan Campbell when it comes to the personality
24:04and the boisterousness and fighting ankles off and all that.
24:07He's not going to do that.
24:08But when it comes to his connections with players, relationships, the attention to detail,
24:11all that, they are very similar.
24:14So maybe he can actually bring that kind of culture.
24:16There's also the fact that one, again, Elliott Wolfe and him have a connection.
24:20I know that people don't like Elliott Wolfe, but I will say it's almost impossible to judge
24:26a general manager on the first season because you can't judge a draft in the first season.
24:29A draft that, by the way, yes, Polk looks very bad and Baker didn't do much.
24:34But if you look at the entirety of the draft, I think they actually got as much as you could
24:38have expected from most of their rookies outside of the receivers.
24:41Like Leighton Robinson finished on a high note, Caden Wallace shouldn't have even played
24:45the last two games or like, I don't think we could have expected him to.
24:48And he was overall pretty solid, just needs to get better against power, but we already
24:51knew that.
24:52Marcellus Dial was a starter on special teams.
24:55Dale Pettis was a starter on special teams from day one, and he played a lot of defense,
24:58had himself a solid season.
25:00Joe Milton boosted his stock in literally one game.
25:04And then I'm missing somebody.
25:05Shaheem Bell was somebody who was even more involved than players who were taken before
25:08him.
25:09So, oh my God, I just went on a Nellie Wolfe tangent, but you'd at least like to keep that
25:12continuity in the front office.
25:14See if now that they actually can spend this money for agency, hopefully see if he actually
25:18does make the moves and bring guys in, fill the hole so that the draft can be best player
25:22available and you learn from your mistakes.
25:24So that's one kind of notch in Ben Johnson's cap that he might be able to keep that going.
25:28But then Lou Anna Rumo worked with Ben Johnson when they were in Miami, Lou Anna Rumo was
25:34fired by the Bengals and from the people I've spoken to, it's because his system was
25:39apparently too complex for a lot of the younger players that we also know they lost a ton
25:44of talent like DJ reader that first week, especially you could see how much different
25:48that defense looked without one of its top talents.
25:50So maybe you bring a really smart coordinator like Lou Anna Rumo, who the Patriots have
25:54a ton of veterans on defense.
25:56So I don't really think that part's going to be a big problem.
25:58I think your starters can really latch onto that idea and maybe have a more sophisticated
26:03defense while you're younger guys that you hopefully draft can learn behind the scenes.
26:08And then just Ben Johnson, if he is a good personality guy, if people who are close to
26:11him think, no, he's going to be able to go and establish a culture.
26:14If he has basically a defensive head coach, Allah and Alex Van Pelt type, who can pretty
26:19much cover everything on that side of the ball and the coordinators, the front office
26:23and him are in lockstep with what they want to do.
26:27Honestly, I'm starting to lean more Ben Johnson just because especially he's, he is also analytically
26:33minded.
26:35It's just all of the gambles on one side.
26:37I feel like you almost get guaranteed on the other.
26:40We're with great.
26:41Well, you're hoping he's with the analytics and you're hoping he's good with the personnel,
26:44but you don't know for sure that Dan, Dan, oh my God, Dan Campbell Johnson is going to
26:49be that leader.
26:50So I think there's a very fair argument for both sides, but I do feel like the more work
26:55I do and the more I dive into Ben Johnson, who admittedly I wasn't super familiar with.
26:59I was just worried about a first year head coach who we aren't really familiar with because
27:04he's not in the conference or the division or anything.
27:06So it's not like we hear a lot about him, but I'm, I'm, I'm leaning that way.
27:10I'm definitely leaning that way.
27:13I don't hate it.
27:14And the only reason that, or I guess the only way I would be a hundred percent comfortable
27:20with it would be if we know that he is going to bring in a solid staff of leaders around
27:26him and guys who have been in the room before.
27:28Now, Louie and a rumo fired, like you said, in, in Cincy, they had an awful season defensively.
27:34Joe borrow when, you know, MVP style all season long, but the defense couldn't hold up their
27:38end of the bargain.
27:39But just a couple of years ago, their defense was nasty Superbowl and Louie and a rumo was
27:44taking head coaching coaching interviews.
27:47So like, this is a guy who has been around and sometimes there is a scapegoat, or sometimes
27:52there is a guy who just needs to be fired as we know, uh, and, and a rumo ended up being
27:56that guy in Cincy.
27:57So that's obviously fallen off and he has to take some blame for that.
28:00But if a guy like that can come in, um, you know, as your defensive coordinator and also
28:04somebody who can kind of oversee one side of the football for a guy and Ben Johnson,
28:09who hasn't done it before.
28:10I think that's massive.
28:11Um, another thing I was thinking about is we've talked about this before and I didn't
28:15want to put too much stock into it because I don't think it's an end all be all, but
28:19if you do have your head coach and he is that like Shanahan type, that innovative coordinator
28:24or what have you, if you have a good defensive coordinator, because there's not a ton of
28:28defensive head coaches in the NFL, it's much more likely that you'd be able to keep the
28:32top of your staff together and then be able to build underneath them.
28:36And if they do lead, have some kind of replacement, and if you did have a Mike Vrabel, because
28:40of his offensive defensive coordinators are good, they're going to keep getting poached.
28:44And then it puts a lot of pressure on you, making sure you have a system where guys can
28:48be guys or gals.
28:49We don't know what their staffs look like, where people can be elevated and promoted.
28:53And then that's the system you always want is you want to promote from within.
28:55We know the crowds really value that.
28:57So that was another feather in Johnson's cap where, again, I just didn't like the idea
29:01of a first year head coach.
29:02And I didn't really know the guy and I just, I'm sick of falling for this where maybe guys
29:06are charismatic, but I do think the edge she brings where you do know, at least his offense
29:10should be pretty competent as long as he can adapt to personnel.
29:12And he's been a tight ends coach, a wide receivers coach.
29:15He's worked with quarterbacks.
29:16Like this isn't a dude with a really narrow mindset.
29:19He's actually kind of bounced around with different programs and things like that.
29:22So it's just, again, the more I think about it, the more I'm like, you know what?
29:26It's pretty, I'm starting to see a better case for Johnson.
29:30If the crafts Wolf and Highsmith are like, Oh no, this dude is like poaching some good
29:36people.
29:37We really like the staff.
29:38He's going to surround himself with, this is going to be a strong foundation that if
29:41we make the right personnel moves will allow us to be a playoff team next year.
29:45Cause I really, I think they're far away in terms of like the development and really becoming
29:49like a top tier front office.
29:51But I think if you get the right players and the coaches are good, like, I think that's
29:54obviously a pretty big part of it.
29:56Maybe not going to get you over the hump, but it'll get you back into being at least
29:59a contender for the playoffs with, with Johnson and Vrabel it's who's going to be around these
30:04guys.
30:05Right.
30:06And for Johnson, it's obvious because we just saw what a first year head coach with no real
30:10experience on the staff, what happens.
30:12And it's Gerard Mayo's dumpster fire only season as the Patriots head coach with Vrabel.
30:17It's well, he knows how to coach and he knows how to be a leader of men.
30:20He's a defensive guy and yeah, he did a lot of work with the offense in Cleveland, which
30:24I thought was interesting.
30:25He, he played a little tight end in the NFL, if you don't know that already, uh, 12 touchdown
30:30catches as a, as a linebacker, but he did work a lot with, uh, with the tight ends and
30:37sort of the offensive side of the ball in Cleveland as a defensive perspective.
30:41So he's not, you know, completely oblivious to that side of the ball, but he's not going
30:45to be the offensive play caller.
30:47You have a quarterback in Drake may, who is the franchise and you need to make sure
30:52that the, no matter what the offense side of the ball is taken care of.
30:55And I think I have enough trust in Mike Vrabel where he's got, he's brought in guys, um,
31:02like Matt LaFleur, he's brought in guys like Arthur Smith who know how to be an offensive
31:06coordinator.
31:07Both of those guys went on to be head coaches at some point.
31:08And so whether it's Josh McDaniels, whether whoever he brings in, if it's Alex Van Pelt
31:13again, he's, he's still available and could interview for the job.
31:16I trust Vrabel to handle that side of the ball.
31:19The only struggle is if you get it wrong, you have to move on to another coordinator
31:23that that just really hurts Drake Mays development.
31:25And so we'll have to see what happens there.
31:28I think there's question marks around both, but as far as a first year head coach and
31:32Ben Johnson, if you're going to do that again, I need some assurance that this isn't just
31:36going to be a sham coaching staff around him.
31:38What, which is what it kind of felt like this season.
31:40So, uh, that's kind of where we're at with Ben Johnson.
31:43That's where we're at with, uh, Robert Kraft, a quick hitter Patriots daily.
31:47Any other thoughts, Taylor, before we scoot here, I know we're going to have, uh, a couple
31:51more pods throughout the week.
31:52We'll keep you updated on Twitter and such.
31:54We're probably going to do a crossover with Brian and Alex with the past beach guys as
31:57well at some point.
31:58So we're looking at Wednesday, Thursday on that for those, uh, curious and want to see
32:02the band back together again, but any thoughts here as a, from what we've learned and also
32:07to, to keep going on this quick little rant here, anytime there's any sort of breaking
32:13news, Patriots updates, head coaching, uh, front office, things of that nature.
32:18We're going to be here on press pass, updating you on it.
32:20Uh, so make sure you rate review and subscribe to the channel, but Taylor, before we get
32:23out of here, any thoughts on craft Ben Johnson and where this thing's at now that you're
32:26on Mayo is officially out of Foxborough.
32:29No additional thoughts.
32:30We got standups coming.
32:31So we'll have other, you know, a little more deeper on some of the things that happened
32:34there.
32:35One thing I will say the Patriots signed seven players to futures contracts, not crazy news.
32:39Frankly, a lot of these players people thought really aren't going to be familiar with, but
32:43for the sake of being thorough, uh, the players are defensive tackle, Marcus Harris, cornerback
32:48DJ James, wide receiver, John Giles tackle, Caleb Jones, who was one of the few practice
32:53squad players this year who signed and was never cut.
32:56He signed pretty early on, and it seems like the coaching staff actually really does like
33:00him.
33:01So it does make a lot of sense.
33:02Um, and then after Caleb Jones, it was linebacker, Andrew Parker, jr, safety, Mark Perry.
33:07That was announced a little bit earlier today.
33:08Um, kicker Parker, Tony, or is it Parker, Tony Romo and Mike Parker.
33:13It's a John Parker Romo.
33:15There's no John Parker Romo.
33:17Yeah.
33:18Okay.
33:19So the guys were kind of futures contracts.
33:21Sometimes futures contracts are, you know, it's, you have guys, uh, you know, it's, it's
33:25frankly some oftentimes it's warm bodies for camp practice was et cetera, but Michael Jordan
33:31was a futures contract signing last year for the Patriots.
33:34And we know how that turned out that, you know, he ended up starting a ton of games
33:37here, uh, obviously left at some point, but, uh, definitely noteworthy.
33:41They bring in the second kicker, couple of cornerbacks, wide receiver, John Giles, uh,
33:45maybe who knows one of them, uh, ends up making a couple of starts next season.
33:48I liked, I liked Mark Perry and DJ James coming out of college.
33:52So hopefully they can maybe like put on some more weight or something, get in closer to
33:55NFL shape because, uh, there was some talented players.
33:58I think it was like size was the big concern for both of them.
34:01So we'll see.
34:02Interesting.
34:03All right.
34:04We'll see where that goes.
34:05All right.
34:06Let's take a quick shout that we have to hit before we get out of here.
34:07Uh, this is from D D we appreciate it.
34:09Why did Wolf get another chance, but mom Mayo S M H, uh,
34:12Yeah.
34:13The positions are evaluated very differently because the head coach is the forward facing
34:21representative of the team.
34:23So that's why with Drodd, it just got to a point where it's like, all right, you're hurting
34:27the respectability of the team because you're going out here.
34:30You're saying things you're having to backtrack.
34:32That was one thing that was stacked on top of.
34:36Poor game management at times, the fact that the culture behind the scene seemed like it
34:39was deteriorating.
34:40Like the head coach just has his hand in so many other pies and those pies almost all
34:44went rotten when Gerard was here.
34:47That's why he got fired after a year because the only pie he put his hand in that didn't
34:51go sour was the one of players buying in, which was admirable, but not nearly enough
34:55to run a football team.
34:57Now a general manager is very different.
34:59A lot of the times the things that they do similar to a head coach, but like the foundation
35:03you lay can't really be seen for quite some time, but because there's less room for you
35:07to make glaring mistakes like Drodd Mayo did with in-game outside of games and all those
35:13different behind the scenes and all that, that's a big part of it as well.
35:17And frankly, again, we keep going in circles with this Elliott Wolfe thing, but another
35:22aspect I think people don't remember is that when you look at the coaching staff, especially
35:27on the offense, everything that was positive was Elliott Wolfe.
35:31He added those people.
35:32It was TC McCartney.
35:33It was Alex Van Pelt.
35:34I was Bob Bicknell who I know people, you know, who's Bob Bicknell, but like Hunter
35:38Henry and Austin Hooper both really loved that tight end room.
35:42So that's not insignificant.
35:43Then like Tyler Hughes was a Mayo guy.
35:45So again, there would not have been much of anything to be happy about with the Patriots
35:51if not for Elliott Wolfe.
35:52Now, could another GM have done more?
35:54Maybe, but there's also GMs that would have done less.
35:56And as much as people hate to hear this, Elliott Wolfe is a very highly respected executive
36:01throughout the league.
36:02And Ben Johnson is saying, Hey, you got Elliott Wolfe.
36:04I'm cool with that.
36:05I respect the guy.
36:06I think he bought a little bit more time.
36:09And then his seat is also still hot as hell right now.
36:13Elliott Wolfe's job is not guaranteed.
36:15It still feels like this is sort of a, well, we still need a leader in the room right now
36:20to kind of figure it out.
36:21For example, the futures contracts they just signed or keeping something in the scouting
36:26department and continuing to have guys ready for the NFL draft that's coming soon, which
36:30having the fourth overall pick still very important.
36:33So like you need something in the room in the interim.
36:37And that's kind of what it feels like Elliott Wolfe is right now.
36:39He is the lead executive type thing until they figure out the coaching staff and the
36:44rest of it.
36:45Exactly.
36:46So yeah, that's, that's pretty much why it's just the head coach has so many other boxes
36:50they need to check.
36:52And when they don't check them, it can just be so much more glaring.
36:56Whereas with Elliott Wolfe, he definitely had his misfires and places where he maybe
36:59could have been more aggressive in pursuing things.
37:02But I think it's very disingenuous to pretend like this was not a pretty shallow for agency
37:06class, which we said before for agency, this is not revisited history.
37:10We continuously said there's like four or five players we really liked and the rest
37:14weren't huge difference makers.
37:15The draft they reached learn from your mistakes.
37:18So draft that bill holes draft to get the best talent available on your team.
37:23And then I think his in season acquisitions, I don't know how much more you really want
37:26from the guy.
37:27I know people were mad.
37:28They didn't sign DJ Humphries, who is literally a backup for Kansas city because he was hurt
37:31for most of the season and then got hurt after barely playing for them.
37:35So you know, I under, this is not mad and remember it is not easy to fill a roster because
37:40unlike in Madden free agents could say no, because you've got a millionaire's tax and
37:44you have crappy weather, no beaches.
37:46I could go on and on and on.
37:48And Antonio Gibson himself was like, there's nothing to do here.
37:50Like that's how a lot of these players are from the South.
37:52They're not trying to come up to the North where it's cold.
37:54They don't know anybody.
37:55So, you know, give LA wolf one more off season.
37:58That's like what I said with Gerard Mayo, I gave him till the bi-week.
38:00That was when I was like, you know what?
38:02No improvements I've done.
38:03If LA wolf comes out of this free agency period is not competitive and, or doesn't sign the
38:08guys that he needs to really go into the draft and a good position, then you're going to
38:13hear me saying a very different message on this show.
38:16Just know that.
38:17Yep.
38:18And I think too, it's worth noting, and we kind of talked about this earlier, but we
38:23were kind of on the same path here with Gerard Mayo as ownership where, you know, we thought
38:27we were going to get the benefit of the doubt and he should have for a little while until
38:31this last, last month happened, which, you know, even Robert Kraft today admitted that
38:34over the last month, it kind of felt like this whole thing was rudderless and directionless
38:39and he had to make a move.
38:40So at the end of the day, they make it now we're onto a different head coach in as many
38:46seasons here.
38:47We have two new head coaches in three seasons for the Patriots.
38:50They will kick off this search very soon and we will have you covered every single day
38:54throughout it.
38:55I'll have had it.
38:56I'll have covered a different head coach every year that I've been on the team.
39:00That's insane.
39:01It's Taylor's fault.
39:02That's, that's, that's what I come away with this saying, but there goes the, uh, and the
39:09camera goes, that's okay.
39:11Anyway, that's going to do it here for myself and Taylor Kyle is a quick update on Robert
39:16Kraft, taking blame for Gerard Mayo's firing and the Patriots requesting to interview Ben
39:21Johnson for the open head coaching position.
39:24So as I said before, we'll be back here with updates, with podcasts, all of it, standups
39:29coming from Fox more earlier today.
39:30So make sure you keep it locked in here on Patriots press pass rate review and subscribe
39:35to the channel.
39:36Read all Taylor's written, written work over at CLNS media.com and, uh, stay on the Patriots
39:41beat as things continue to happen down in Foxborough until next time here on Pat's
39:45daily.
39:46He's Taylor Giles.
39:47I'm my Catholic.
39:48Take care of yourselves.
39:49Take care of each other.
39:50And we will see you guys next time.
39:51Peace out.
39:52Everyone.