How Trinny Woodall Built Trinny London Into A $74 Million-A-Year Company

Forbes

Trinny Woodall spent two decades as a British television star and fashion advisor in “What Not To Wear,” but she’d always harbored a love for skincare and beauty. In 2017, at 53, she launched Trinny London, a makeup and skincare company that she partially funded by selling the designer wardrobe she’d worn as a television host. The direct-to-consumer brand took off during the pandemic, thanks in part to Woodall’s candid social media presence and makeup tutorials. It is now shipping to customers in 170 countries, has retail stores in Europe, the U.K., Australia and the U.S.  Woodall sits with ForbesWomen Editor Maggie McGrath at the Nasdaq MarketSite in New York to discuss how she built the company.  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00Hi everyone, I'm Maggie McGrath, editor of Forbes Women, reporting here at NASDAQ Market

00:07Site.

00:08Trini Woodall launched Trini London in 2017, using savings that she built, selling her

00:16clothes from a lucrative career in television.

00:19Trini London is now in New York for a brief period with a pop-up, and she joins us now

00:24to talk about how the business is going.

00:26Trini, thank you so much for being here.

00:28Wonderful to be here.

00:29Well, to be here briefly, to be here permanently.

00:31To be here permanently.

00:32Well, it is a pop-up, so I didn't want to misimply that it was a launch of a store,

00:36but tell us about this pop-up.

00:38When did it start and how long is it going to go?

00:39Well, we've started selling in the US because we're mainly DTC, we're still 75% DTC, but

00:46there's that sense of when you establish a brand in a new territory, you want to show

00:50some physicality to the brand because people otherwise feel you just live in an online

00:55environment.

00:56In beauty, there still is probably buying first time is about 40% of consumers, whereas

01:01replenishment online could be up to 60% for beauty.

01:04So you want to just show that environment and what you are as a brand.

01:08So we've chosen somewhere on Prince Street.

01:10It's incredibly busy.

01:11We had queues outside the store this weekend, and we had all these different women, so you

01:16get to understand your customer because everything is about understanding your customer.

01:21So existing customers from online, as well as people discovering it saying, what is this?

01:26And it gets that buzz, which then gives you an online replenishing customer and grows

01:31your business.

01:32What have you most learned from the customers you've been interacting with on Prince Street?

01:36I think the variety of the customer because we were really set up to deal with this customer

01:41we felt had been marginalized, which was that 35 plus woman who felt that every model was

01:47in her teens or 20s, and she was needing that sense of where do I go now?

01:52You learn something in beauty as a woman perhaps from your mother or from nobody.

01:56You learn it yourself from your friends, and there's times we need to sort of reset.

02:00So we are that brand for saying we're personalized to you, and we did that online of building

02:06an algorithm that understands you as a woman because you're different from your best friend,

02:11and then growing with you as you grow.

02:13You become a mom or not.

02:15You go into a different career.

02:17You change career.

02:18You divorce your partner.

02:20It's like we have all these moments in our life where we want a little reset.

02:25We are the brand that women are drawn to for that reset moment.

02:29Are they drawn to the beauty or the skincare part of the business?

02:33Because Trini London has both now.

02:35We started as makeup because my career for 15 years was making over women around the

02:41world, and it didn't matter their age, their religion, their skin color.

02:45It was still that emotional state we are in, and the first thing we're comfortable to look

02:50at is a tweak in how our makeup looks because it enables us then to look at our hair and

02:54look at our body, and everyone has a different relationship with their hair and body.

02:58So it starts with that, but underneath it, for me, the most important thing is makeup.

03:01So we are in now 51% revenue in skincare, more than makeup, and our skincare is from

03:08our own lab.

03:10I wanted to own the intellectual property on our skincare because I think the future

03:14value of the business, there are many brands that might maybe white label product, and

03:18I think it's very important to start your own products yourself to find innovative ingredients

03:25and to own those formulations.

03:27And I think that women appreciate the ingredients in our products, and so we have a very, very

03:33high retention in skincare, and I think when you look at a balance sheet now, it is about

03:39how you get that retention.

03:43Let's talk about your balance sheet a little bit.

03:44I alluded to it at the beginning of the conversation, but you have been so capital efficient.

03:49You launched this business from your kitchen table, and you had been on the UK version

03:54of What Not to Wear for years, so you had a TV wardrobe that you basically sold off

03:59to help bootstrap the business?

04:01I started doing that, and I was living in a house that I had overextended.

04:05You know when we buy our dream home, but maybe we can't afford it?

04:08And I did, and I realized if I wanted to start the business, I couldn't be drowning

04:13in debt, so I ended up actually also selling my home, and I was 50, so that was a challenge

04:19with a daughter who was 11.

04:21But I knew I had to push myself.

04:24You know, it shouldn't matter the age we are.

04:26It's like, what are we prepared to do to get there?

04:29So that was probably the harshest, most unknown moment for me, because nobody at that stage

04:35really believed in the concept of this woman and what she needed.

04:40So I did that, bootstrapped, and then the year before I launched, when I'd spent three

04:46years researching, then I got my first investment, so I raised two and a half million pounds,

04:51and then I raised a further 3.6.

04:54I raised 7.6 in total.

04:58And you launched from the kitchen table, you start D2C Makeup, and you quickly expand.

05:03And Australia was one of the early markets that you started.

05:05It was, because we went, and I think you, I mean, as a brand grows, you want to start

05:10with similar language market, because when you're looking at how you're marketing, there's

05:15a nuance.

05:16There's definitely a big difference between a British woman, an American woman, an Australian

05:20woman, but at least the language is the same.

05:22So for us, the most natural second market was Australia, Canada, and then the U.S.,

05:27so that's why we're coming to the U.S. now.

05:29We're about, I think, 9%, 10% U.S. revenue and U.S. customer base, and this year is about

05:35growing in the U.S.

05:36And total revenue for the most recent fiscal year was roughly 74, 75 million U.S. dollars,

05:43depending on the-

05:44Up to last March, but we've had a good year.

05:46You've had a good year.

05:47What has driven that good year?

05:48I think it's been, the year before was really looking at our EBITDA and getting that to

05:53a good place, and then looking at the difference.

05:56I think it's interesting when you're a growth business and looking at your EBITDA in a mature

05:59market because that shows where you can get to in profitability versus a growth market

06:03in the U.S.

06:04So I actually separate out those EBITDAs and look at them differently because you're putting

06:08different money into those two territories to look at how you're going to grow them.

06:13So I think for us, growth has come from bringing retail up.

06:17We were about 85% D2C, and now we're about 75%.

06:22So we've doubled retail in the U.K. and Australia, and we've also doubled in the U.S.

06:27What does that tell you about the overall D2C market?

06:30Are people going back to in-person?

06:32I think that we had all those changes two years ago with Facebook, with data.

06:39So that did change the ability for conversion, but we're still finding good conversion on

06:44D2C.

06:45I think on Meta, it's looking at the fact of how much you spend on brand awareness versus

06:51DR, a direct response.

06:53And it used to be we were 93% DR, direct response, and now we're building out.

06:58We were like 2% brand awareness because a lot of our advertising is a conversation.

07:03It's not traditional buy this now.

07:05We're very much a rather emotive brand in how we talk to women.

07:08So I think we were sort of subliminally already doing brand, but if Meta says brand, this

07:13percentage in the funnel, this year we've been slowly building that brand awareness

07:18because it takes you to a bigger audience and then it helps the rest of the funnel behave.

07:24So I just think it's always balancing out how Meta is this year versus last year and

07:30looking at Google too and looking at SEO and also looking at influencers more as creators.

07:37I think it's important because we look to use ... I am in a way an influencer of my

07:41own brand, but we used to look at influencers as they should do something for free.

07:45They are businesses.

07:46They compete hugely with traditional press.

07:50And if we look at the influence of you and I as women, we are going to follow somebody

07:54on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook as much or if not more than we are going to read about

07:59something in a law magazine.

08:01It's changed.

08:02The market's changed and it doesn't actually matter, I think, the age of a woman.

08:08I think they are all looking at social as that first port of call to think the instigation

08:15of, oh, that looks interesting.

08:16And then they want those five reference points.

08:18One of them is going to be a friend saying, I love it.

08:21One of them might be a traditional magazine.

08:23Couple will be social.

08:24One might be out of home ad and one might be a Meta ad.

08:28That's really interesting.

08:30And I appreciate hearing you yourself call yourself an influencer because people know

08:34you from your career in television and it's interesting that balance between your own

08:38marketing of yourself and then building stores, building a retail footprint.

08:43Have you felt in recent years that more people are finding you because there are physical

08:47stores and less because we're not in the middle of a pandemic and everyone's home online all

08:52the time?

08:53I think it's a mix.

08:54I think when you're a founder brand and you have your name above the door like Bobby Brown

08:59used to have or Charlotte Tilbury or myself, you have an opportunity that you're a physical

09:04person.

09:05You're not just a brand name.

09:07So there's a slight advantage.

09:09But long term, you have to show that you take the DNA of you or why people follow you and

09:14you have to infuse that in the brand.

09:16So you have to feel the principles of why somebody might follow you personally on social

09:19are the identity and the emotional relationship of a brand.

09:24So to me, the more emotional a brand is, the more I am attracted to it because it will

09:29speak my language.

09:30It's not just speaking generalistically.

09:33It's speaking very personally.

09:35So there are advantages.

09:36And whether that's out of home, whether that's in a store or whether that's online, when

09:41I'm looking through a feed, both are as important as each other.

09:45I want to go back to what you said about the IP and the chemistry process behind your products.

09:51Was that an initial investment that felt expensive but is paying off later on?

09:56Because you mentioned a lot of entrepreneurs really do white label or they work with outside

09:59chemists.

10:00How did you make that decision and how do you find it paying off now?

10:03I made the decision because I spent many years looking at the back of a beauty label,

10:09the Inkey List, and looking at those ingredients and over the years learning to interpret those

10:14ingredients correctly.

10:15Because there are certain ingredients that have to come at a certain stage of that so

10:19you can see how much is marketing speak and how much is actually an active ingredient

10:23at a more functional active than a marketing active, I'd put.

10:29You might sort of say a vitamin C cream but there's sort of 2% of ascorbic acid as opposed

10:33to 20.

10:34So you need to understand what those mean.

10:37Now when you white label, which is you take a basic formula from somebody, you might put

10:42your smell in it and you might put another ingredient in it, but you're going to be very

10:46similar to other products.

10:48And we've been about innovation.

10:49I want to be able to talk about mini proteins for our eye treatment and to know that if

10:54I want to go into the eye care element of beauty, I need to have something that is truly

11:00innovative.

11:01It was just voted the best eye cream in the UK and that's because nobody was using mini

11:05proteins.

11:06So we found an innovative ingredients maker in Switzerland who was creating mini proteins

11:10and I thought, let's use them in the eye cream.

11:12And so the ability to create from scratch is phenomenal.

11:17To have your own lab, it's fantastic.

11:19It's like the most exciting thing.

11:21And then it does pay off long term because you stand out.

11:25Somebody try it.

11:26You've got to get them to try it.

11:27That's your biggest challenge.

11:28But once they try, you know they're going to convert because you know they'll feel the

11:32difference.

11:33You segued elegantly there to something I was going to ask, which is new products.

11:38Skin care, makeup are very crowded markets, but you are continuing to put out products.

11:43What has been new and most successful for you in 2024?

11:47Two things.

11:48One, I mean what's really interesting in skin care is you either want to go into a

11:52very crowded market like a moisturizer and think, how do I make it different?

11:57How do I talk about it in a different way and what are the ingredients I put in?

11:59So our best selling product is still a moisturizer because that is about 18%, 16 to 18% of the

12:05overall category of skin care.

12:08But we did something called the elevator earlier in the year and this is for the neck.

12:14And it's really challenging to think, how can I change my neck just by a cream?

12:19There's lots of treatments.

12:21People can say is it Botox or this lifting thing or whatever.

12:24So you need to do clinical trials.

12:26So we found some ingredients which we clinically trialed for six months and we had some feedback

12:34from the clinical trials of lifting of a sagging jawline, which is nearly impossible to get

12:39from a skin care product.

12:41But that to me then changed the market because it was not a crowded area.

12:45We brought it in.

12:46We made women feel, pay as much attention here as you do to here because it's still

12:54on show and there can be suddenly a disparity.

12:58And we don't want to fearmonger.

12:59We're never an anti-aging thing, but we want you to feel, let me look after it.

13:04And this has sold out three times.

13:06I mean I manufactured in our lab enough for a year and we sold it in two months.

13:11We cannot keep up.

13:12So that for me is a very interesting thing of thinking what is an area where it's really

13:17undervalued as a concept.

13:19And so we're going more into that.

13:22We've got a few more things in that category.

13:24And with the eye treatment, which is our category called Take Back Time, it's not turn back

13:29time because that's derogatory to a woman.

13:32I don't want to turn back time.

13:34I'm really happy with who I am today, but I want to feel I look in the mirror and I

13:39feel full of energy every day so I can take back time for myself.

13:42So that category of what's it mean to be able to take back time for yourself has a few other

13:48things in the lab that are going to join it.

13:51And I'm sure you can't tell us about them yet, can you?

13:53Absolutely not.

13:54Can you tell us about the ring that you're wearing?

13:55The ring is, I have first of all footballer's hands, because they're very big hands.

14:00And so I need big rings.

14:02And a girlfriend of mine for my birthday who makes rings gave me this.

14:06And I always usually have inside a new shade, so I can't necessarily show you the shade.

14:10But it's very easy and people always ask if we will make this.

14:14One day we will make it.

14:15But it's your personalized lip gloss.

14:18Yeah, it has a lip and a cheek.

14:22That is so innovative and really efficient.

14:25You'll never lose it.

14:26We like functionality, practicality and innovation all in one go.

14:29It's great.

14:30I appreciate that too.

14:31Now, I referred to your television career, but you had a business before Trini London, correct?

14:37I did.

14:38I had a business at the beginning in 99, at the beginning before e-com actually.

14:43And I had somehow come across something which was showing that online was going to be a thing.

14:50And this is when I was just, you know, finishing one career of being a journalist.

14:54And I thought I want to do something there.

14:56And I went to Cable & Wireless and we said we want to do this thing.

15:00I had a two-pager.

15:01And they gave us a million dollars within two weeks because there was such a, we have

15:05to learn about this area.

15:06And I want to do a portal for women called Ready To.

15:09And it would be ready to cook, ready to eat, ready to do your beauty and everything.

15:14And we started the business.

15:15I raised $7.5 million in three months from J.H. Whitney and Atlas Ventures.

15:20And within two years I had to close the business.

15:23And it was the most challenging thing probably I've done.

15:27But also it taught me so much when I started Trini London because I really bootstrapped.

15:33Sometimes when you get too much money too quickly, you don't spend it well, whatever

15:37age you are as an entrepreneur.

15:38So I hired in slowly.

15:40I hired passion over traditional experience within the industry I was going into.

15:45I wanted innovative young minds who were really, you know, just going to invigorate and bring

15:52their intelligence and we would learn together.

15:55And then after a year we started to then hire in that expertise of a good CMO and a

16:01good CFO.

16:03But we need, you know, it just, it was waiting for the business to grow into itself as opposed

16:07to let me get the experience in quickly.

16:09Because you think of maybe what you don't know and then as an entrepreneur you might

16:13hire in too quickly and somebody might change the direction of your business.

16:18And it's about relying on that difference between your intuition of why you started

16:23something, why investors invested in you because you had a good idea, and really leaning

16:29into your intuitive sense of what is this gap in the market and how am I filling it

16:35as opposed to people coming from a traditional background saying maybe we should do this

16:39because they did it before.

16:41And I, it's that balance is really challenging.

16:44Would Trini London exist and or be a roughly $75 million business had you not had that

16:51prior entrepreneurial experience?

16:52It's a really good question and I'm not sure because I might not have stuck so tightly

16:58to my belief in what I felt it should be and not let anyone deter me from that belief.

17:04Now I appreciate your take on let's take back time versus turn back time and anti-aging.

17:11You were of course on the Forbes 50 over 50 list for Europe, Middle East, Africa this

17:16year, which is a list all about showing how women can defy age and gender norms by stepping

17:23into their greatest professional power over the age of 50.

17:26So I'm curious Trini, have you felt that age has been an advantage or a disadvantage in

17:31growing Trini London?

17:32It's irrelevant.

17:34It's irrelevant?

17:35It is irrelevant.

17:36Your age is the least relevant thing.

17:38It's about your passion when you get up in the morning.

17:42It's about the energy you bring into the room.

17:44It's about the conviction you have about what you're doing.

17:48And whether you're 30 or 50, it doesn't matter.

17:52But I think to celebrate, I mean I was so flattered to be on 50 over 50 though.

17:56That did matter to me because I felt that I meet so many women who think is it too late

18:02for me to do something?

18:03So that is when it's relevant.

18:06It's to say to them it's never ever too late.

18:09If you have an idea and you're passionate and you have a belief and you know you're

18:13filling a gap in the market, do it.

18:15Nothing is stopping you.

18:16Do it.

18:17Nothing is stopping you.

18:18Which brings us back to where we started, which is you have a pop-up, but you're eyeing

18:24a long-term presence in the U.S.

18:26What will it take to open that long-term permanent store here in the U.S.?

18:31What it would take is literally extending the lease because I am so determined to stay

18:36in that location.

18:37It's a perfect location.

18:38But for me it's strategically how we grow in the U.S.

18:42There are businesses that might go on a commercial wholesale way as a quick turnkey system, but

18:49I am learning so much by setting up a store, meeting the customer, understanding the American

18:55woman versus the English, Australian or the 180 other territories that we ship to.

19:01But it helps you to meet that person in real time.

19:06And then the idea of going back to this one-to-one service, this personalized service, is still

19:11scalable because it is about scale.

19:14So do I see within three years we would have quite a few of these in different locations

19:18in the U.S.?

19:19Absolutely.

19:20I usually ask entrepreneurs, if we were to speak a year from now, what would you want

19:24to be able to report to me about what has changed about your business in the ensuing

19:28year?

19:29So Trini, if we were to meet back here at this desk in a year, what would you hope to

19:32be able to report to me?

19:33Double U.S. growth.

19:34Double U.S. growth.

19:35Yeah.

19:36All right.

19:37You heard it here at Nasdaq MarketSight.

19:38Trini Woodall, thank you so much for joining us.

19:39Thank you for having me.

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