“I am an atheist, I don’t believe in God.” DMK MP Kanimozhi detailed her party’s strategy as the mighty BJP looks to inch its way into Tamil Nadu.
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00:00Do you believe in God? No, I don't. They use God. I mean, they've used religion to burn women.
00:07They use religion to have discrimination, caste system. I'm against organized religion.
00:14Vanakkam, this is Kannimori for Brute.
00:17Lok Sabha MP from Tuticorin, daughter of Karunanidhi, sister of the current
00:22Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, MK Stalin. Kannimori, thank you so much for speaking to Brute today.
00:27I want to start by asking you, do you believe in God?
00:31No, I don't. I do not believe that, you know, there is some power out there which is,
00:40you know, overseeing this world and it has formed that power or person has these
00:51rules by which you have to live life. And if I am wrong and if there is something,
01:02I really don't think that I would be able to worship a God who says, you know, this set of
01:10rules are superior to another. And so you can hate each other and you can clash with each other.
01:18Would I really want a God who creates hate, who creates misunderstandings and
01:26who says women are inferior and, you know, things like that. So I'm against organized religion
01:33and I do not believe in, you know, what they call as God in that way. So that and I think
01:46what society and what people want has to keep evolving and changing. You can't keep pulling
01:53humanity back, saying that, you know, there is this is the way you're supposed to live.
02:00They use God. I mean, they've used religion to burn women, saying they were witches. They've
02:07used religion to push women into the fire and say, and they use religion to have discrimination
02:15caste system. They've used religion to have wars. So I am not able to accept that something like
02:27this is for the greater good of humanity. So I find it very difficult. And I think
02:32my strength comes from within me and I do not have need something to lean on.
02:40I mean, it's difficult at times when it's easier to believe that there is somebody you can appeal
02:46to when you are in trouble or you have issues and who can suddenly find, you know, light up your
02:54path and say this is the way to go. But I think it's easier for me to find I can be sure that I
03:00will at least do my best to find my way than depend on somebody else for that.
03:06So since the DMK is largely perceived to be atheist and of course, you know, largely perceived to be
03:12that. Do you think this has given BJP, which is perceived to be a Hindu party? Do you think
03:20it's given it sort of an inroad into Tamil Nadu? See, DMK, there are many leaders in DMK who are
03:29atheists and there are many leaders in DMK and many people in DMK who are not atheists, who
03:36belong to some religion. So I don't think DMK as such is against religion or does not believe in
03:46God. You have to understand that the Dravidakazhagam started by Periyar is a different
03:57party and it's not a political party as such and it's a different movement and
04:03DMK is a political party and they said there is one God and of course,
04:12our founding leader Anna said that, you know, I find God in the smile of the poor. So
04:18that is what, but they did not work against, I mean, they did not say we did not believe in
04:27religion or we are doing away with religion or anything like that and it is a Dravidian
04:31movement, not the DMK, which started the Hindu endowment war and I think we've never,
04:39every time the DMK has been in power, we've never failed from our responsibility as a government
04:44to take care of the temples or, you know, have the Kumbhabhishekams or whatever has to be done
04:51and to protect, you know, the temple properties and everything. It's interesting, you know,
04:57all the points that you just mentioned, how do you combat the BJP when it, you know,
05:03in the public domain, it has said that Dravidian politics and DMK are anti-God. Do you, you know,
05:10how are you combating that in the political space and especially again, I mean, I'd say
05:17because the BJP is perceived to be a largely Hindu party, you know, what do you think
05:24politically in terms of roles in Tamil Nadu, has it had any effect on this particular line?
05:30My father has been the chief minister of Tamil Nadu, voted to become the chief minister of
05:39Tamil Nadu five times and he is a known proclaimed atheist and I don't think that has affected
05:49because it is only when he was a chief minister that even in his own native place, we have the
05:57temple car called in the Thiruvarur temple and it is only during his government that
06:04after so many years, the temple car festival was conducted again. I mean, they redid the temple
06:13car and we've done so many kumbhabhishekams and even now in my own constituency, so much work is
06:20happening in the Thiruchendur temple. It's a Murugan temple and which was neglected for so
06:26many years, you know, when so-called believers were in power and nobody bothered to take care
06:33of those temples. It's only the DMK government. So, we understand that we are a government.
06:40What my personal belief cannot come in the way of the responsibilities of the government. The
06:46DMK has been very clear about it. When the Hindu and Oman board is under the government,
06:53then definitely we have a responsibility to the people who come to those temples, who worship in
07:00those temples, to give them the best, to give them, you know, the best facilities and, you know,
07:08and take care of the temples. Temples brings me to my next question that I wanted to ask you on,
07:13which is free the temple movement. How is the DMK combating that? How are you looking at it?
07:18Free the temple, free the temple movement. How is the DMK looking at that? Free from what? And give
07:25it to whom? That is my question. Yes, you want to take away the temples from the Hindu and Oman
07:32board or the government and give it to whom? You know, it will get into, you know, hands of
07:40some people and they will start exploiting. And then again, why was it taken away? Why was it
07:48taken away from people? And, you know, why did the government take charge? And it was not the
07:53DMK government which did it. It was done before that. And why was it done? Because there was
07:58corruption, there was, you know, the temple properties were being taken away. And only after
08:05the government started taking charge that there is, you know, you know, how much income is there.
08:15We have an understanding and it's in public domain that the income of the temple, the
08:21jewellery which is there in the temple, the properties of the temple, it is coming into
08:27public domain only after that. So, when you take it away from the government, where is the
08:33accountability and give it to whom? You don't think that in the current scenario, the perception and
08:39we are talking about free the temple movement, of course, across India, you don't think that there
08:44is a perception at this point in time that there is corruption or there is, you know, a question
08:50mark in terms of the amount of money which is coming in and how best to combat it. Is it best
08:56to not have it under the government? When it is under the government, there is, I'm not saying
09:02there is no corruption or I'm not saying that there can be no mistakes or nothing is going
09:10wrong. We are working towards it and obviously that is what is expected. I mean, maybe I'm not
09:18the one to talk about it, but at least there is some accountability. We can ask questions and I
09:24think if you put an RTI, you are, the government is answerable. But if you give it to private people,
09:32then what happens? Who is going to answer? Where is the accountability? And I think first let us
09:39free the temple from the hands of a few people, you know, a few communities. I think everybody
09:46should be allowed to enter the temple. Everybody should be allowed to become pujaris over there.
09:52Everybody should be allowed to go into the sanctum sanctorum. First let us free the temples of all
09:58caste system and discrimination. Then we can talk about freeing it in other ways.
10:04All right. I'm just going to ask you this one quick time and we'll move on to another subject.
10:10You know, what do you have to say today to the BJP when they say that they have
10:14made inroads into Tamil Nadu? Do you agree? Is that a concern for the DMK at this point in time?
10:22See, who's made inroads and who has not will be reflected in the elections.
10:28And let us wait for the elections. And I don't think, I mean, this is a democracy and
10:36everybody can, you know, get into politics. Everybody can come with their own ideology
10:42and philosophy and try to talk to people about it. You can't say stop that. I mean,
10:48it's not right to do that. So I'm not worried. I know Tamil Nadu and I think we don't, I think
10:56in Tamil Nadu people care about development, about human dignity, self-respect and
11:05social justice more than anything else. Okay. Elections will tell as we move on.
11:11There's been, you know, the current parliament session, the monsoon session.
11:14There's a lot of back and forth that we've seen you have with Nirmala Sitharaman, the finance
11:19minister. And first we'll talk a little bit about that and we'll go into some topics that you have
11:24raised in the parliament in this session. So we'll come to the price rise and the GST bit.
11:30The FM did say that, you know, the DMK is using the GST and adding more on top of it. They've not
11:38sort of, you know, she took, she explained, say, a packet of curd. She said, you know, if it costs
11:43with GST 105, it's a 120 that the DMK government is selling. See, the time and again, the finance
11:50minister of Tamil Nadu has clarified that it cannot, the union government cannot say that
12:01they have been party to everything. And he's made it very, very clear. So you cannot say that
12:10everybody unanimously accepted everything. So that is one thing I would like to clarify.
12:18Could you elaborate on that when you say that, you know, the finance minister
12:23in Tamil Nadu has said that unanimously it was not agreed on?
12:26Yeah, many things like everything they say that we've agreed on or he's been very clear
12:33in his interviews that sometimes they're not there, not everybody is there, not everybody
12:39is on board when some decision is taken and not all decisions are taken unanimously.
12:47The next thing I would like to say is when DMK, after we've come to power in within a year,
12:55we promised to reduce the prices of petrol and diesel and we've reduced the price of petrol.
13:02So it is not that we ran away from our election promise. We have delivered and we are delivering
13:09on all our election promises. And you've been in government twice as a second term. And we're going
13:16for the election after the second term of BJP government. Then it's in Tamil Nadu, we've just
13:23come to power and we are fulfilling our election promises. And I think the entire debate was not
13:31about what the DMK is doing there. The debate is about, it's a debate in the parliament about what
13:40is happening in the entire country. So we can't, you know, go back and say, what are you doing?
13:45What is this state doing? What is that state doing? That is not the answer. And we all know that
13:51there are issues with the GST. So no point throwing back questions at me. We are having
13:57this debate in parliament to have answers from the finance minister of India. I'm not here to debate
14:06about what the state government does. So we have to understand that. And even when I read out the
14:12letter written by a child to the prime minister, I'm not saying she, the finance minister told,
14:19answered the parliament saying that we did not increase the prices on pencil or the eraser. It
14:25is not that. The price rise, the price hike about in everything is so high that people cannot afford
14:34to buy things like pencils or, you know, school children can't afford to buy things. The parents
14:40can't afford to buy things for the children who go to school. That is what the child means. It's
14:44not that the prices of pencils have become, you know, that is not the answer we expect. We expect
14:51a holistic answer. So that was not coming. I wanted to ask you quickly, you know, you've
14:57advocated equal representation of women in parliament. That's something you've been vocal
15:01about. How far have you been able to do that in the DMK? And tell us a little bit about,
15:07you know, even in the constituency, etc. What have you been able to do around women's representation?
15:13In Tamil Nadu, we, especially in the local body election, we have 50% reservation for women. And
15:21one good thing is women have gone beyond the 50% now. And there are more women representatives
15:30compared to men in the local bodies. And we have, you know, mayors, more mayors who are women than
15:41men. And we do have, I think, in the political scenario, even when you talk about the country,
15:55we do have to go even within political parties, we have to go a long way.
16:01Yes.
16:03Definitely, where we are is not enough. Even in the DMK, I think, we need more women to come into
16:12the party positions and come into, you know, our assemblies as representatives and parliament. 33%
16:24reservation to start with, will definitely go a long way. Because in Tamil Nadu, I mean,
16:30we started with 33% in local body elections. And today we are more than 50%. And I think
16:37definitely that will, you know, go a long way because it's much more difficult for women to
16:44get into politics because, you know, they do not have assets, you know, under their control.
16:51And it is difficult for them to be accepted in politics as equals. So we need that push
17:03to open up doors for them. So that is very important. But and in our party posts also
17:12within the party, we have a women's wing and we have been pushing for more representation
17:19within the party structure. And I think slowly things are changing.
17:23Very quickly, I wanted to ask you on NEET. I know, of course, that, you know, twice now the
17:31bill has been passed by Tamil Nadu to exempt students from NEET. The Tamil Nadu government
17:38previously in its previous avatars has also sent these bills to the, I think in 2017,
17:44have sent it obviously to the president. It was returned. Tell us a little bit on why do
17:50you think this is very important in terms of exemption from NEET and Tamil Nadu seems to be
17:57the most vocal advocate for it while we've seen other states like Maharashtra, etc., sort of put
18:03a pause on it at this time. In Tamil Nadu, we have, we do not depend on private colleges alone,
18:13private medical colleges alone. We have government medical colleges and our Tamil
18:18Nadu government, especially when DMK was in power and my father was his chief minister,
18:28his dream was to start one government medical college in every district of Tamil Nadu so that,
18:36you know, people who've never had or could never dream of an opportunity to become doctors
18:41can become doctors. Families, you know, from less, children from less privileged and from
18:49rural areas, you know, will be able to get the opportunity to become doctors and
18:57people from communities which have been deprived. And more women and minorities can also become
19:03doctors. And that that was the reason behind starting these government medical colleges.
19:09And it's more affordable, of course. So, the whole thing is centered on a better health system
19:18and also social justice and reservation. So, today with NEET, our students are being deprived
19:27of opportunities which they should rightfully get. You have an exam which is completely out of
19:36the education system they are used to. And it's not that I don't. I mean, I think doctors from
19:43Tamil Nadu are doing well all over the world and Tamil Nadu, our health system is one of the best.
19:52And even medical tourism is a very important part of Tamil Nadu economy. So, when
20:01the system is, you know, in its right place, this is very disruptive to, you know, bring in some
20:09entrance examination. This entrance examination is like an elimination. It is not, you know,
20:15giving opportunities to students who have been deprived and denied opportunities because,
20:22I mean, who is able to go for an entrance coaching course?
20:30You know, it's a privileged children and mostly it is students from, you know, cities
20:38who are able to afford it and who are, you know, it's easier for them to go to these classes.
20:45So, what happens to the rural students? What happens to the underprivileged students?
20:50So, it creates this entrance examination only creates discrimination again and it's denying
21:00opportunities to many students. And of course, when we talk about the PG courses, we've always
21:10had marks given to students who've worked in PHCs, you know, in the government system. So,
21:16that is also being done away with. So, it's a big loss to the health system and to the experience
21:26which the students also will be gaining. So, in many ways, it affects our students and also helps
21:34health system, the government's health system and the state.
21:39You know, when section 377 speaking on the Supreme Court bit, they had struck it down,
21:44you had tweeted, personal choices we make in our lives should not be dictated by law. Well done,
21:48Supreme Court, for this historic verdict. My question to you, Roli, is on the LGBTQI community
21:54plus community. We've seen a lot of politicians and sort of, you know, they have personally
21:59championed the cause many times, but political parties rarely picking this up. For the young
22:05viewers who are watching us, you know, how can politics be more inclusive? And what would it
22:13take for political parties to really come out and champion? That is the whole thing about the
22:17Dravidian movement. It is all about inclusivity. So, I think democracy is a right to choose and
22:25democracy, that is the fundamental of democracy, you know, that you have a right to choose and
22:31you have to be inclusive. And I think Tamil Nadu was one of the first states to, you know,
22:40recognize transgenders and to give them their rights and
22:49look at their problems and understand that and, you know, one of the first states to support,
22:58you know, when they wanted to get the surgeries done through government,
23:03medical college, hospitals. So, we have always been supportive. And I think we've always been
23:11inclusive. And that is what we expect. Just, you know, two quick last questions I had.
23:17One was on, you know, there's been a debate in terms of Hindi versus Tamil versus using English
23:24in parliament. You know, the other minister, cabinet minister Piyush Goyal, when he was
23:29speaking in Hindi, there was a bit of back and forth in terms of speaking English and then you
23:33spoke in Tamil as well. And of course, you know, the pronunciation sometimes in terms of Hindi
23:39words that we've seen, that's another thing in parliament that happened. Tell us a little bit
23:43about the debate on Hindi, you know, versus Tamil. Do you think this is a debate that is,
23:51you know, needs to be kept alive, is constantly alive or is it still a debate at this point in
23:56time? It is not Hindi versus anything. It is the imposing something. I mean, it could be
24:08any idea that is being imposed on people, which is not right. Same thing, no language can be
24:16imposed on anybody. It could be English, it could be Hindi, it could be any Mandarin or anything
24:22you can bring. And if you're going to impose it on me and saying that I have to learn this to be
24:28Indian, then I will oppose it. I mean, it doesn't make me less of a human or less of Indian if I
24:37don't know English or if I don't know Hindi. And I speak my language and our founder leader Anna
24:48said, you know, if I know English, then I can speak to the world, I can speak to the nation.
24:55And I speak in Tamil within my state. So you don't have to open so many doors.
25:03You can open two doors. Why should I learn another language, a third language to, you know,
25:09because you think India can only be one because you have, I mean, you want to create one national
25:17language and Hindi is not a national language also. India is a diverse country with, you know,
25:24languages which are very ancient and which are very rich in literature and,
25:32you know, such beautiful languages. Why do you have to impose one language and say everybody
25:39has to speak this and only then India can be what it is. That is what is going to
25:44actually go against the grain of what India is and kill the beauty of it.
25:49All right. Many languages in India to keep alive. My last question on a lighter note to you is,
25:56what do you and Chief Minister Stalin as brother and sister disagree over?
26:01If you can give us a little bit of glimpse into, you know, some things that you usually disagree
26:05over. Yeah, I mean, he overworks. That's the only thing I can disagree with him.
26:13He's my leader. So I agree with everything he does.
26:16Okay. All right. Thank you so much for speaking to Brute today. Thank you.