SAM Conversation with experts from US, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka on Trump’s election: Outlook for South Asia
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00:00Hello, and welcome to South Asia Monitor.
00:19Today we are doing a discussion on what is perhaps the most topical subject for the whole
00:28world, which is the emphatic victory of candidate Donald Trump in the recent US election.
00:40His victory and the fact that he would be sworn in as the 47th president of the United
00:47States, and this for him will be a second term since he was also the 45th president
00:54after President Barack Obama. There are many layers to how Trump 2.0 is being viewed across
01:06the world. Domestically, it is evident that the implications are going to be almost tectonic
01:14because for the first time we will have a US president who would be totally in control
01:22of the United States and the infrastructure of governance, meaning the executive,
01:29the legislature, and the fact that the judiciary also has been handpicked by the Republican Party.
01:38What does this mean for this part of the world? That is the focus for our discussion.
01:44Mr. Trump is not new to South Asia. He has visited the region in his first term.
01:51He has also made a number of statements about South Asian nations and their leaders during his
01:58first term and subsequently. To just unpack this and get a better sense, we have an eminent panel,
02:07all black belts in their own way. Let me identify them as I see them on the screen.
02:12We'll start with Bina. Bina Sarwar is the co-founder of SAPAN, the South Asia Peace
02:19and Action Network. She also keeps the SAPAN news network going and in many ways keeps the
02:26region connected. Thank you, Bina, for being here. We also have Bina in Boston, for the record,
02:32Boston, USA. We have Mayank Chhaya, veteran journalist, author, painter, part-time chef,
02:42technologically very savvy. Mayank is also a very dear friend. I must put that in parenthesis.
02:48He is currently in Chicago and he has just recently written about the US elections and
02:53what the Trump presidency could mean for the region. Thanks, Mayank, for being on board.
02:58And we also have Mr. Sugeswara Sanadhira. He is a very eminent name and figure in Sri Lanka.
03:07He's been an advisor to successive prime ministers and he's also a friend of Sam.
03:12We have benefited from his inputs and advice over the years. Thank you for joining us,
03:17Mr. Sanadhira. And finally, we have Tarun Basu, veteran journalist in the Indian context,
03:24has covered international affairs for years and he's also been in the US recently. He's done a
03:29lot of work for the diaspora and he's got a book about the Kamala Harris phenomenon in US politics.
03:38So with that, what I'll do is I thought I'd request you all to make some opening remarks and
03:43I'll just leave one little caveat, if I may, that we are looking not just at South Asia,
03:48but Southern Asia. And that in turn would enable us to look at the Indian Ocean, the Indo-Pacific
03:55and China and parts of Southeast Asia, all of which have a locus as far as the extended
04:02Southern Asian region is concerned. So with that as a broad background,
04:08Mayank, can I request you to go first and perhaps give us some broad brushstrokes about Trump 2.0
04:16and how the United States sees South Asia. Mayank.
04:22Thank you so much, Uday. It's an absolute pleasure to be on this panel of such
04:26eminence. You, of course, Tarun is a dear, dear friend of longstanding, outstanding journalist.
04:33Bina, a recent friend, but an outstanding journalist and a dear friend. And Sugi,
04:38of course, we go back very long way, brilliant journalist and an outstanding administrator and
04:44dear friend. So thank you all for inviting me. If you don't mind, I think I would read what I had
04:50written, a little bit of that on this particular aspect. I hope that's okay. So if my eyes dart
04:56back and forth, please don't mind me. Washington's sanguinely friendly embrace of New Delhi in
05:03recent years is not likely to lose any of its warmth with the re-election of Donald Trump as
05:09America's 47th president. If anything, the much talked about personal friendship between Trump
05:16and Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected to add to the ease of bilateral diplomacy, in my view.
05:24In any case, Indo-U.S. relations have been on the upswing for the last nearly quarter century.
05:32It began with the seminal visit of former President Bill Clinton. He was, of course,
05:38president then in March of 2000 after a gap of nearly a quarter century when Jimmy Carter visited
05:46in 1978. And since then, the relations have progressively strengthened and become more robust
05:52each year under Clinton's successors, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Trump, President Joe Biden. So
06:00it's a continuum that I think will have no significant hiccups as Trump 2.0 takes over
06:08in Washington. In a sense, that improvement has paralleled the dramatic rise of China
06:14in the last three and a half decades, now practically rivaling the United States in its
06:21global influence. It is in that Chinese context that it's reasonable to expect that
06:27Trump in the White House will not materially change the direction of the bilateral ties,
06:33as long as Washington perceives Beijing as its global nemesis and the prospects of that being
06:39so is likely to continue for the next two, three decades, in my judgment. I don't think we can
06:45expect any US administration to risk significantly diluting its relations with India in the foreseeable
06:52future. And I think the Trump administration is expected to broadly continue the outgoing
06:58Biden administration's studdedly pragmatic approach towards the Modi government in a contrasting style
07:06to Biden, who was deeply engaged personally and elevated India-US relations on several fronts.
07:12Trump is expected to be less engaged with South Asia as a region and India as its center,
07:18other than his favorite fixation on tariffs and a couple of other issues.
07:22He has been explicit in calling India a major abuser in bilateral trade relations
07:27and has threatened a blanket tariff structure on all imports from anywhere in the world,
07:32including India. It remains to be seen, though, whether he actually carries them out to the extent
07:37that he has threatened between 20% for the rest of the world and about 60% for China.
07:43Other than that, I think he's likely to be very amiable towards New Delhi.
07:48But given his radical plans to refashion America in his vision, he will be considerably preoccupied
07:55domestically. And as a result, India is not likely to feature immediately in the scheme of things.
08:01And finally, not being a globalist, I think Trump is unlikely to pay any significant attention
08:07to the larger South Asian neighborhood of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka,
08:13and Nepal. I think he is just not the international type. So I don't expect him to be hands-on
08:20in that area at all. Hold that thought. Thanks. I think now on that,
08:26it's a very good segue to get Bina in. Bina, what Mike is saying about President Trump when he
08:32assumes office, that he would be preoccupied with domestic issues and that perhaps when we
08:38look at the region, Pakistan, Afghanistan may not figure very prominently. What do you make of
08:46Trump 2.0 and this very troubled region? I mean, Pakistan, Afghanistan continues to be very
08:52troubled by some very old internal security issues. And then we have Iran next door. So all of that
09:00put together. Bina? Yeah, thank you so much for having me on the show. It's wonderful to be here
09:06with all of you who are linked in some way or the other to Sapan News as well. I just want to start
09:12by saying that Trump 2.0 is likely to be Trump 1.0, but worse for America and for the world,
09:22I think. I will just say that. I think that it's his personal relationship with Modi, the way that
09:32the two of them supported each other during their electoral campaigns, as Mayank has pointed out,
09:38that whole relationship and holding up of each other, which also points to this other thing.
09:45And so what I'm seeing is actually the people that came together, the electorate that came
09:52together for Trump 2.0, particularly this time, includes right-wing conservative Muslims. It
10:00includes the right-wing conservative Hindus who subscribe to the Hindutva ideology. It includes
10:04right-wing conservative Christians, that whole thing. So basically what I see is that he has
10:10come in on the back of fear of change by the right-wing conservative communities across
10:18religions, across ethnicities, who don't like the fact that when they elected, and some of them
10:24had elected Barack Obama. They don't like the fact that when they elected a black man to the White
10:29House, LGBT, gay marriage became legal. They were like, wait a minute. We don't, we're okay. We're
10:35very liberal. We don't mind a black man being in the White House, but we don't want our sons and
10:39daughters getting married to same-sex people. One, for example, the abortion issue. That's
10:46another example. Now coming to, and of course, and one other big chunk of people that have
10:52supported him have been the Imran Khan, former Prime Minister Imran Khan's supporters, the PTI.
10:58They have been celebrating Trump's win as well. Why have they celebrated Donald Trump's victory
11:04with PTI? That would be of interest to viewers. Yes. So a lot of PTI supporters are in the US.
11:11Many of them are expatriates. Many, much like the, many of the Hindutva supporters are expats
11:17living abroad, you know, enjoying all the benefits of the material goods of being away,
11:25but very, very keenly interested in what happens back home and interfering heavily in the politics
11:30as well, even if they are not allowed to vote there even, and some of them are not. And so,
11:37Dr. Parvez Hoodboy, many years ago, before Trump 2.1, 1.0, actually, before 2016,
11:44just when he came into power, or was coming into power, he wrote a piece about the similarities
11:49between Imran Khan and Donald Trump, and an article for Don. And many of those things that
11:56he pointed out, this whole, you know, the strongman, savior, coming, riding on the back of,
12:03actually, if you look at it on the back of social media, on the rise of social media, all these
12:08strongmen, saviors, and this is not just Trump and Imran Khan and Modi, this pattern you can
12:13see is Bolsonaro, it's the guy in the Philippines, it's like, you know, across the board, you can see
12:19that these people have come in, because with the rise of social media, allowing
12:27people, the audience, slash electorate, to directly communicate with the dear leader.
12:35So, there is this, this is the, on the, looking at the larger picture, it's the fear of change,
12:44of society, that, you know, women are coming up, LGBTQ rights, trans rights, trans people are a
12:50fraction of the population of anywhere, of our countries of America, but when you start giving
12:57them identity, allow them to express their identities openly, it becomes very threatening
13:05to a lot of people. Okay, Bina. Thanks, Bina. I think we'll come back to some of these issues.
13:10But as Mayank said earlier, one presumes that Pakistan-Afghanistan may not figure prominently,
13:17as of now, definitely in the first few months of Trump 2.0. Let me shift to Mr. Sanadir. You
13:25worked in the PMO in Colombo for many years, and you are also a keen watcher of the region and its
13:31various undercurrents. Given what Sri Lanka has gone through domestically, and the way in which
13:39there has been anxiety about the China factor, and the American articulation of the Indo-Pacific
13:46and issues related to the maritime domain, how do you see Trump 2.0 from your perspective in Colombo?
13:56Colombo's main concern is economy rather than politics. Currently, we are just getting out of
14:02economic abuse. So, despite President-elect Trump and PM Modi's close rapport, I am sure New Delhi
14:16may be worried about major issues like tariff hike for Indian products and also technology
14:23transfer, especially armament sector that India is keen to manufacture with the US collaboration
14:30with technology transfer. So, these things may not go in India's interest at all with Trump's
14:39reelection despite all other personal reports and increasing bilateral relations in other spheres.
14:47Our concerns are mainly exports, but garments is our major export to the US. And as far as
14:57garment is concerned, we are already paying 17% tax, highest slab. There's no special concessions
15:06for us. So, there's no change even if the tariff increases. But we are interested in Trump's policy
15:15of strengthening relations with other countries and also Russia and also his first statement after
15:24getting elected about ending the wars. So, we are deeply concerned about the wars because they are
15:35affecting our economy, oil prices, Gaza and Ukraine both. If there's an end to these two
15:45conflicts, the global trade will heavily benefit and we being a small country, non-oil producing
15:54nation, so we don't have to pay excess for imports. And furthermore, you see now China,
16:04with regard to China, they plan to have closer relations to counterbalance with India as well
16:12as Russia. So, that might benefit us already last month after the election of the new president,
16:21Marxist president of Sri Lanka. One of the major US companies shifted from China to Colombo
16:29with $20 million investment. That's a huge thing for us. So, such investments, if
16:38Trump's policy is to encourage the American investors to shift from China to other countries,
16:47that might benefit us heavily. So, these are the areas we are more concerned than
16:53politics. Of course, the ending of the wars would help us immensely. But usually, the
17:03United States presidents, some of them don't even know that Sri Lanka exists.
17:12They mix a small country. I remember reading Talibdeen's, one of the articles that
17:18US President Bush once said that he was accused that he didn't know the names of the presidents
17:25and prime ministers he meet. So, at the US Washington correspondents dinner, he was cracking
17:34a joke that of course, I spoke to the other day Chandrika Bhandarnag, Kumar Tung, the president
17:39of Sri Lanka. If I can remember such a long name, I can remember others. So, otherwise,
17:45America is not much concerned about that. But American envoy Julie Chung here,
17:53after the president's election, and she's completing her term this month,
18:00she said that the US is very keen to increase the cooperation, especially
18:09shifting of US investments as much as possible to Sri Lanka and they want to cooperate with the
18:16new socialist president of Sri Lanka. So, we are facing an election next week, next Thursday. I
18:24mean 14th of this month we have the elections. So, after that our policies will be clearer.
18:31The President D'Souza has already sent a congratulatory message yesterday.
18:40So, we are looking forward to Trump's term. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Mr. Sannidhara. I think
18:46that's a good overview of the view from Colombo. Tarun, can I request you now to
18:52touch upon some of the issues that we haven't had a chance to look at, for instance,
18:56Bangladesh, especially the conversion that Bangladesh has gone through and the kind of
19:03aspersions cast by the Sheikh Hasina regime about Washington and the so-called conspiracy etc.
19:10All yours, Tarun. Thanks Sudha for putting this panel together. Yesterday when the results were
19:17coming in and it was clear that Trump was winning, like everybody else, one got a lot of messages
19:24from friends, family, etc. And one curious trend that emerged from my messages, which I realized
19:29later on, like one of my families said, yeah, I was supporting Kamala Harris, but isn't Trump
19:36good for India? And then I realized at least three, four people who messaged me had this thing
19:41that Trump will be good for India, or a question, isn't he going to be good for India? I think he's
19:46going to be good for India. So, there is a kind of popular feeling, it might say, or conventional
19:52thinking that coming of Trump again as the 47th president will be somehow good for India.
20:00And some of these perceptions are also driven by the chemistry that has developed between the two
20:07leaders. And I think Modi was one of the first leaders to call Trump and congratulate him
20:17yesterday. I was looking at some of their exchanges in the last couple of months or even years.
20:25I find that not just yesterday when Prime Minister Modi congratulated Trump, there's always
20:32qualified by my dear friend, and which Trump has also done when he greeted Modi on,
20:40not the Indian people, on during Diwali, or even earlier when he talked about India,
20:45there's always that qualification about my dear friend, which I'm not sure he does with too many
20:50leaders. And as you know, they have already met four times in the last, during the last term,
20:59Modi was there in Washington DC, then they met in France, and then there was this famous
21:04Howdy Modi rally, and then this huge rally in a huge thing in Ahmedabad, where Trump was there.
21:12And then he declared in front of 100,000 people that India has a special place in our hearts.
21:18So that is what happened in the first term. And yesterday, interestingly, when Mr. Modi,
21:24Prime Minister Modi sent his message, he talked about four issues, which are going to be the
21:29centrepiece of the relationship, defence, technology, energy and space. So these are
21:37going to what's going to be drive the Indo US relationship forward. But one should also keep
21:43bear in mind that when you think about Trump, or you talk about Trump, there are two adjectives
21:49that come to mind about him. One is that is very transactional. And the other that is very
21:56unpredictable. So you can expect a lot of that during this term, whether it deals with India,
22:04or it deals with anybody else. And so even while there's a lot of hope about elevation of the
22:12relationship, and that the relationship which was a strategic partnership has only become
22:18comprehensive strategic partnership. The fact that Trump continues to see China as his principal
22:26adversary, the fact that he elevated the level of Quad when he was in his last term. So there is a
22:34lot that could happen in the between India and the US in the coming months and years. Also, I mean,
22:43what I would like to point out here in the when Veena was talking about the results and how
22:49people voted, you know, a lot of people thought because of the half ethnicity, half Indian
22:55ethnicity of Kamala Harris, there will be Indian American vote, although they're just
23:02voting public was 2.6 million. But there's a substantial Indian American population in some
23:08of the swing states, and they will automatically gravitate towards Kamala Harris. That in fact,
23:14did not happen. A lot of the voting was on, well, the older generation. First of all,
23:22I mean, what I was looking at the figures.
23:24Arun, sorry, I request you to hold your thought. We are coming to the end of the cycle.
23:29But I just want to add one, you know, sort of element into the discussion, which is for all
23:35of South Asia, immigration is going to be a big issue. How Trump plans to deal with immigration.
23:42Arun, you had a point about Bangladesh. You want to comment on that?
23:47Yeah, you know, and it was an interesting message and pretty long message that Trump sent
23:53on Diwali directed at Hindu Americans constituency, where he started by talking about the
24:00barbaric violence against Hindus in Bangladesh. And then he went on to talk about the chaos in
24:06Bangladesh, which obviously people in Bangladesh didn't like. And then he said that this Biden
24:12Harris administration is not too good about protecting Hindus. And they'll be ignoring
24:18Hindus and his administration when it comes is going to protect Hindus. So, the use of his
24:24language was very interesting. And obviously, he was trying to kind of divide the Indian American
24:31vote, which was never monolithic in that way. But the way he brought in Bangladesh tangentially
24:38while talking about Indian Americans and greeting Hindus, especially on Bangladesh was, I think,
24:44you know, calculated and a little smart move. And I think in that way, the way the
24:52Indian American vote went and what little we know of it. The Indian American vote was earlier,
24:59you know, during Hillary Clinton's time, 80% of them voted for Hillary. It went down a bit for
25:04Joe Biden to 70%. This time only 60% of the Indian American vote went to the Democrats,
25:11which was the normal party which they supported. And the rest went to Republicans, you know.
25:19And again, among the Indian American vote, more men like the National Trend voted for Trump
25:28and citing that he'll be good for business and that he'll lower taxes and he'll deregulate.
25:35And the women, of course, like the rest of the National Trend, voted for
25:44Harris. But talking about, you know, I think the whole attitude of Trump towards
25:51the rest of South Asia will be kind of crisis triggered. There is a crisis, he would respond.
25:57But other than that, as I think Mayank also pointed out, I don't think he's not being a
26:03globalist in that sense and knowing little about the rest of Asia other than India and China. So,
26:10he would not pay much attention. But that doesn't mean the State Department won't be engaged. And
26:15with Bangladesh being in transition from, you know, autocratic government to now interim
26:22administration and all that. And there has been a lot of talk lately about the US taking undue
26:28interest in the changes in Bangladesh. So, Bangladesh, I think would remain on the radar of
26:34the Trump administration. You know, Tarun, I'd just like to add one point here,
26:41you know, picking up from what all of you have said. I think it would be fair to say that there
26:46is an essential continuity as far as US policy towards South Asia is concerned, by and large.
26:54There was a certain amount of attention focused on Afghanistan. But after the withdrawal of the US
27:01troops in the Biden watch, I think even that issue is now below the radar. So, I think broadly,
27:07there'll be a continuity. But I do want to request all of you to perhaps share your thoughts on one
27:12issue which Tarun had just mentioned and Dina had said this earlier. This is the Donald Trump
27:18use of religion, both within the context of the domestic politics of the United States,
27:25reaching out to the born again Christians, repeatedly in whatever little bit I saw
27:30in the campaign, talking about God saved me from that bullet. God wanted me to make America great
27:37again, you know, repeatedly God and the Christian faith. But the dog whistle, you know, when you talk
27:43about the Hindus, I'll protect you. And similarly about Israel, and that Donald Trump would protect
27:49the Jews, you know, there is the othering of the Muslim. How that will play out as far as
27:56the extended South Asian region is concerned. Dina, you want to weigh in on this? And then I'll
28:02come to Sanadhira. Yeah, sure. I think that's a really interesting point. And the really interesting
28:08point there is that despite his othering of Muslims, despite his very openly saying he will
28:15do mass deportations of brown people, immigrants, despite his open Islamophobia, and all that,
28:22despite that you had these Muslim clutches of imams and you know, people voting for him and
28:31saying that he will be better for because of as we as we talked about earlier, the war in Gaza,
28:38and what's going on there. And they were like, you know, this job, the Biden and Harris
28:43administration has enabled this genocide over there. And anybody will be better, we cannot
28:49reward them for genocide. And we will vote for Trump and Trump will. And then as there was this
28:54meeting of him, I think it was in Michigan, where he's, you know, meeting all the imams shaking
28:59hands with them one by one. And, and I was like, are these do they do they not do they do they
29:04really think he's serious about that? And they were like, we are voting for Trump because he
29:08will bring peace to the Middle East. And, you know, like, it's like, and I was thinking how
29:14delusional can people get that in their quest to punish one side, as we say in Urdu, apne paav pe
29:22kulhari marna, to basically cut off, you know, your own foot, you know, nose to spite your face,
29:27as they say in English. And so we have the same. That is one factor that has played into his
29:35victory this time as well. And these people are going to very well see what kind of peace he will
29:40bring in the Middle East. I for one am very highly skeptical of that. I don't think he has any
29:46interest in doing that at all. What about Sri Lanka? You know, how does this play out given
29:52Sri Lanka's own challenge with the ethnic strife and you had the attack, the terrorist attack,
29:58and you know, how does this dimension play out there?
30:02With regard to Trump's, you know, utterances on the election campaign,
30:10I fully agree with Tarun. You can't predict what he would do. He's a master strategist.
30:19As far as elections are concerned, he knows how to win elections. You know, despite all odds against
30:26him, twice he managed to win. So, his action, we can't predict right now. All those, you know,
30:37the promises about, you know, he has given to the ethnic Indians, anti-Muslims, Jews and others.
30:47But I don't know what he's going to do. But I think he's quite keen on ending these two wars.
30:55I don't know how much influence the arms lobby and the armament industry funding his campaign and
31:03those things would finally sway his decisions. But still I feel that he might go in for, you know,
31:12some sort of negotiated settlement, not only in Ukraine, in Gaza also, at least to have a ceasefire.
31:21So, that way, I think there are some advantages. You know, ethnically, I think,
31:31he's, well, I wouldn't like to say the word, but he wants to keep America for Americans.
31:40So, that way, he might continue his policies about cutting down immigrants and other things,
31:47especially immigrants not from our part of the world, but mostly from Africa and Muslim countries.
31:55But at the same time, he might have close cooperation with, he will continue whatever
32:02the policies he had adopted in his first term in 2.02. And Sri Lanka, currently,
32:14the government is also, you know, currently a bit unstable because although the president won
32:23with a 48% majority, but still he has to get the parliamentary majority in next week's
32:31general elections. After that, it's a Marxist government, but still they have,
32:37as far as the economy is concerned, they are ready to have maximum cooperation with the US
32:43and they have already adopted the open economy and continue the deal with IMF.
32:50Thank you. Mayank, I would request you to share your thoughts. I'm sure you've thought about this
32:56for a long time. One of the things that has emerged from this election is that Donald Trump's
33:01so-called playing up to this anxiety of the white American male and the circling of the wagons,
33:10as it were, and clearly from whatever little bit we've read over the last 24 hours,
33:15he's been able to get a very, very robust response from this demography. Now, if you look ahead,
33:22is this a point of no return for America, you know, in terms of the earlier image of America
33:28as being open, as being inclusive, and being able to accommodate the diversity within the larger
33:36American dream? Is that a thing of the past? And we are going to see increasingly the dominance
33:42of the white American male, at least as far as the electoral politics of the US are concerned.
33:48You want to say something on that? In terms of electoral dominance of white men, I mean,
33:54you probably have a point. But if you're talking about whether the American dream for
34:00immigrants is a thing of the past, I don't think so. Because
34:04you have to remember that all said and done, he's going to last four years.
34:10And after four years, the Republican Party will have to begin to make adjustments to
34:18come back to where it used to be in the last 40-50 years. There is no way they can survive
34:24on this policy for an extended period of time. In that sense, the way he has managed to
34:32create a coalition is a bit of a fluke. I'll tell you why. Because if you look at Hispanic men,
34:40they have voted for him very significantly. A lot of young white men have voted for him
34:45significantly. In a sense, people don't realize this is essentially a battle of the sexes.
34:50It's not been an election in the traditional sense of the word. In fact, one of his advisors,
34:56Stephen Miller, actually tweeted saying, bring all the men out. He specifically talked about
35:02bringing men out at the complete exclusion of women. I think this is a freak event that has
35:10happened twice. I know it's difficult to digest that a freak event of this scale can happen twice,
35:15first in 2016 and now in 2024. But I think overall, beyond 2028, as people like J.D.
35:23Vanthoo, of course, even more doctrinaire than Trump is, but they are in some sense pretty
35:29traditional in their worldview. So I don't think it's going to remain the way it is.
35:34One point that I would like to make about, you had asked Bina about Trump's religious propensities.
35:42He has none. Trump has no sense of religion. He uses God as a tool. He is, in fact,
35:50you wouldn't be surprised if he is, in his mind, he's an atheist. I don't think he understands
35:55religion in any significant sort of way. He was asked once, which is your favorite Bible verse?
36:01And his reply was, any, all, because he has no clue. He has no clue. So I don't think religion
36:08really underpins the way he looks at it. He just pretends. I'm saying except in a very cynical,
36:15transactional way that you use religion for electoral. But Tarun, closing thoughts,
36:20we have raised a number of issues. I am personally, my own assessment is a bit bleak.
36:27I fear that the discord and the divisiveness in America has gone too deep. It's across race,
36:35it's across gender, it's across class. And I don't know that the current political dispensation
36:42would be able to provide the kind of healing touch, but I hope I'm wrong. But on that note,
36:47I defer to you Tarun, you spend more time in the US than me.
36:51You know, it's, I agree with Mayank and also with Bina, but one also has to see the way
36:58how cynically you use the immigration issue to divide Americans, not just on race lines,
37:06but on even intra-race and intra-religious lines. Even among, as Mayank was saying,
37:13the Hispanic vote got divided. The men have supported from on the immigration issue and
37:19they want a tougher immigration and they do not want the floodgates to be open for more people to
37:24come from Latin America or Asia. But you know, this immigration thing, when we talk of closer
37:30ties between Indian and America or South Asians, America, we always talk about the people who are
37:36skilled, you know, the techies and people who have already prospered and they are going to prosper
37:42even more if, you know, Trump comes in possibly, that is the hope. But there is a significant
37:48aspect of the significant demography who are now trying to go to America in a, you know,
37:55more circuitous role, not very legal role. And that is going to a lot of people from India
38:02who are going to join their, you know, bread earners there and join, unite families.
38:08They are going to be affected by this tougher immigration laws that
38:12Trump hopes to bring in and wants to bring in on the very first day itself.
38:17This is going to divide a lot of Indian families, South Asian families and others, which I don't
38:23think people realize. And also the Indians are also in terms of the undocumented population,
38:29Indians are the second or the third largest. They already sent, the US has already sent a
38:35plane load of illegal Indians back. Most of them are from Gujarat and some from Punjab and more
38:40would be sent back in the months to come. So that would have a lot of negative impact on the popular
38:48perception of what Trump stands for in America. You know, let me say again, in defense of President
38:56Elect Donald Trump, that when he was asked about this in the last 24 hours, his team and they made
39:03him say this, that he's okay with legal immigration, those who are qualified, those who are
39:09skilled and are bringing something to the US, but he'll be very harsh on the illegals and the
39:15undocumented. And my sense, again, it's a gut feeling based on Trump 1.0, on his first day in
39:22office in 2017, I think it was January 21st or 22nd, he took the United States out of the TPP,
39:30the Trans-Pacific Partnership, that was his first executive order. So like that, apparently,
39:35he's told his team that in the first few issues that he wants to give order, executive orders,
39:41immigration, illegal immigration will be on top of the list. And that would have serious, I think,
39:47internal repercussions for those families who are affected in South Asia, definitely in India,
39:53the Gujarat and Punjab sort of constituency you referred to and similarly in Pakistan,
39:59Bangladesh, perhaps Sri Lanka, Nepal, etc. So on that note, let me thank all of you, Bina,
40:06Mr. Senidhara, Mayank and Tarun. And hopefully if their time permits and we get enough
40:13support for this kind of an effort, we'll try and do this again.
40:17Can I just add one more thing before we close?
40:2030 seconds Bina, 30 seconds.
40:21Not even, not even. One is immigration, it's not just about illegal immigration,
40:26but it's about brown illegal immigrants that concern them more. That's one thing. And in terms
40:30of how he pulled out of the Trans-Pacific Agreement, so now there's also fears he will
40:34pull out of the Climate Change Agreement. So thank you.
40:37I mean, he's already pulled out of Paris, if you remember.
40:39Exactly.
40:40But on that note, again, we never say no to a lady. Bina, thanks for that input.
40:46I just love it.
40:47Do this again. Thank you, everyone, for watching South Asia Monitor.
40:50Do give us your feedback. And if you think there's enough content in this, we'll do it again.
40:56Thanks, Mayank.
40:57Thank you. Thank you so much.
41:01And Chitranjan Path. Bye. Good night.