Today marks the 25th anniversary of Australian Service in Timor-Leste. When the people of Timor-Leste voted for independence in 1999, the violence that followed shocked the world. The Australian troops were then deployed to the southeast Asian country to restore peace and security to the region.
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00:00The results came in when I was landing in JFK Airport in New York to report to the Secretary
00:15General, Security Council.
00:18During that period, I traveled back and forth between Washington and New York.
00:25In Washington, talking to members of the U.S. Congress, Senate, the administration.
00:34And in the meantime, back home, following the results announced, violence erupted.
00:41And the main, main concern, absolute priority was to get international action.
00:49That's why I was very busy, active, lobbying the U.S. Congress, because for the U.S. administration
00:59to give green light, it had to have the backing of the Senate, of the House of Representatives.
01:09And at the time, I was told by friends in the Congress that although they were sympathetic
01:19to the plight of the Timorese, they were reluctant to commit American troops following the Black
01:29Hawk Down, following the catastrophe of U.S. intervention and withdrawal from Somalia.
01:38But the public pressure built, including by Australia, Prime Minister John Howard
01:44at the time, the Portuguese Prime Minister António Guterres, now Secretary General,
01:50and everybody talked to President Clinton, whom I also met.
01:56And it was the backing of the U.S. for an international security force to be deployed
02:05to Timor-Leste that this was made possible.
02:09But let me say very clearly, it was also because Indonesia agreed to it.
02:17If Indonesia had not agreed to it, if the TNI had said no, there would have been no
02:24interference, no international intervention.
02:28But credit must go to the TNI leadership, to President B.J. Habibie, Dewi Fortuna Anuar,
02:40his advisor, the then Coordinating Minister for Defense Security, later President Susilo
02:48Bambangwiliono.
02:49These are the people in Indonesia who made it possible for Indonesia to honor the agreement
02:57with the UN, that if the people voted for independence, they would comply with it.
03:04And they did.
03:05They vacated the territory.
03:08Of course, the violence erupted by totally in a chaotic situation.
03:18In any case, it was a miracle that happened, an impossible dream that we were told, you
03:27know, independence was not realistic, it was a dream, it was a fantasy, but it did happen.
03:35And we thank the international community.
03:38We thank InterFed, Australia, United States, Portugal, New Zealand took very active part
03:45as well for making possible the international security force that came in and ended the
03:56violence perpetrated by the militia gangs.
03:59You say the independence was a miracle, but it was due in a large part to the advocacy
04:06and the work that you and others had done over the decades.
04:11How intensely did you feel that pressure at that moment to get that international support
04:18for it, considering how bad the violence was in East Timor?
04:25Absolutely, at that time, I was alone in New York.
04:30It happened on a weekend.
04:33I was in the home of friends, I used their home, these are all good friends of mine.
04:41I was constantly on the phone, between a mobile phone and a fixed line phone, calling many
04:51different media people, being in touch with the ground in Timor-Leste, being in touch
04:57with Shanana in Jakarta.
04:59He had been freed from prison, but still under house arrest at that point.
05:07But he was the person who I credit the most for making the referendum possible, for ending
05:16the violence.
05:17Because if Shanana had not been a cool-headed leader in those years, with the violence that
05:27happened already starting in January, February 1999, he would have said, there are no conditions
05:37for the referendum, we must postpone.
05:41Shanana said, we must continue.
05:44Then the agreement was signed in May, violence escalated.
05:48Shanana said, we must continue, because the UN and the Portuguese and others were worried,
05:54and they were considering cancelling and postponing the referendum.
05:59Shanana said, no, no, no, we must not miss this window of opportunity.
06:05And then it was Shanana who ordered our fighters into a cantonment.
06:12So when the violence happened, our forces were not involved.
06:18They were not accused of being involved, because they were in complete cantonment with
06:23their weapons.
06:25So Shanana was the brilliant strategist that made possible everything.
06:33Otherwise there would be no interference.
06:35We would not be celebrating today.
06:38So he showed great restraint, you say.
06:40So what was the feeling when the Australian troops arrived on the ground there 25 years
06:46ago after that terrible violence?
06:51That was absolutely wonderful, wonderful news.
06:55People were desperate up in the hills around Delhi.
07:01Many had lost hope that there would be international intervention.
07:06And then when the ships began to appear in the horizon, and the planes began to head
07:13in towards Delhi, there was a lot of shouting of festivities in the mountains, in the bush
07:20around Delhi.
07:22It was a miracle.
07:24And we remain forever grateful for that moment, forever grateful to the international community,
07:32Australia, New Zealand, and many others, the Portuguese, the Europeans, the U.S., and President
07:40Bill Clinton.
07:41He was absolutely critical, crucial, his decision in that.
07:47Bill Clinton was always sympathetic to Timur.
07:49As soon as he was elected in 92, 93, he showed his sympathy.
07:56But he had to handle all the conflicting pressures in the policymaking in Washington.
08:03So we thank, but primarily we bow to the tenacity of our own people, the sacrifices
08:13people accepted for freedom.
08:17And I praise the Indonesian side, because it was not easy for them.
08:23It was some sort of humiliation that we voted against staying with Indonesia.
08:32And they honored the agreement.
08:34They could not control the militias, but they vacated the territory.
08:40And so, and it was the Indonesian military, the TNI, that made possible Indonesia on transition
08:46to democracy.
08:48They could have stopped everything.
08:49They could have stopped the referendum, or not accepting the result.
08:54They could have stopped democracy movement in Indonesia, but they didn't.
08:59So today, in retrospect, in spite of the 24 years of conflict, we have also to thank
09:07the TNI for when the critical time came to leave, they did what is honorable, and they
09:16left the territory.
09:19And just how important, I'm coming from an Australian perspective, you mentioned many
09:22nations there, but because I'm in Australia, I'll point out Australia.
09:27Just how important was Australia's contribution to the future of your nation by sending those
09:33troops in?
09:34Well, A, in terms of public opinion, Australian public, Australian people, I have said it
09:42many times, Australian people are very unique, very special.
09:48The Australian people, whom I know, always sympathetic to the underdog, because Australia's
09:54own history of, under the British, the Australians were sent to fight and die in wars that they
10:06didn't know about, and they always fought with bravery.
10:11And you, when the Indonesians themselves fought for independence against the Dutch, Australian
10:16dog workers were the first to initiate boycott movement against Dutch interests.
10:23So Australians are very sympathetic to Timor-Leste, not only because of World War II, the loyalty
10:30of the Timorese to the Australians, but also because Australians by very natural, very,
10:36I say, always very instinctively in support of the weak, of justice.
10:43And then, of course, the Australian political elites, Australian leaders, went along and
10:50listened to the voice of the Australian public.
10:53And Prime Minister John Howard spoke with Bill Clinton, also put pressure on Bill Clinton
11:00for United States to make the decision to support in the UN Security Council the deployment
11:09of an international force for Timor-Leste.
11:12Without Australia's involvement, Australian leadership, I cannot imagine the interfact
11:18happening.
11:21And President Ramasweta, looking back over the many decades of your advocacy and the
11:28struggles of the East Timorese people, how do you see where your country has progressed
11:35to over the last 25 years, and after all the bloodshed and the struggle that was put
11:44in to get you there?
11:46Well, I have to say with a great degree of satisfaction, 25 years after the referendum,
11:5522 years after independence, the figures in the country speak for themselves.
12:03In 2002, life expectancy of eight Timorese would be only less than 50 years, less than
12:1260 years.
12:13Today is close to 70.
12:17So we made 10 years.
12:19We gained 10 years in life expectancy.
12:21In 2002, we had one PhD.
12:26Now we have over 100 who got PhDs in some of the best universities around the world.
12:32In 2002, we had only 19 medical doctors.
12:36Today we have 1,200 medical doctors.
12:40In 2002, there was hardly electricity anywhere in Timor, a bit in Dili, but very precarious.
12:48Today, electricity covers 97% of the territory.
12:53So tremendous progress, but still with failings, poverty is too high, child malnutrition unacceptably
13:04high.
13:06On the other hand, at the same time, when we look back in terms of freedom, democracy,
13:16well, Timor-Leste is rated number 10 in the world in terms of media freedom by the Reporters
13:24Without Borders based in Brussels.
13:27We rate better than Australia, UK, US, France, Germany in terms of media freedom.
13:34We are number 10.
13:37No third world country is even belong to the group of the first 20.
13:44In terms of democracy, we are rated one of the best performing democracies in Asia, the
13:50best in Southeast Asia.
13:52So for those who wish to see with critical eye, but balanced, they would know, they would
14:00see that Timor-Leste has made tremendous progress in only 22 years, starting from below zero.