#Sensex, #Nifty ended at record closing highs today. On ‘Big Story’, market analyst Ambareesh Baliga discusses the markets.
Also take a look at WhatsApp’s initiatives for Indian small businesses with Ravi Garg.
Also take a look at WhatsApp’s initiatives for Indian small businesses with Ravi Garg.
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TVTranscript
00:00The moot point is the way the indices moved in the last, let's say, one and a half hours of trade,
00:06the intraday of the NFT will show you that sharp uptick that we saw in the last maybe 90 odd
00:13minutes, circa 90 odd minutes of trade, sharp up move there. Now, it could have been the point
00:19about China likely to cut trades on mortgages in order to help the ailing real estate sector,
00:25or that we are moving ever so closer to the rate cut cycle for the central banks. Remember,
00:31ECB cuts and then the Fed rate cuts, very likely Fed rate cuts will also come in. So,
00:36it could be multiple reasons, but there's a sharp surge there. It will be very interesting to see
00:41the kind of flows that have happened in the session today. Mid caps and small caps didn't
00:45participate with as much gusto, but naturally on days of sharp upswings and money flowing to large
00:51caps, mid caps and small caps tend to lag. Even so, about 1.14% for the mid cap and about 0.75%
00:59or 0.78% for the small cap index. So, you couldn't find points or places to complain.
01:06Now, bring up the heat map of the Nifty. I would argue all 50 stocks were in the green. Yes,
01:11there was a Nestle, which was 0.11% in the red. Really sharp up move from the start of the trading
01:18day today. Maximum stocks were in the green, but then the way the metal stocks participated with
01:23Hindalco or commodity stocks essentially, Hindalco participated. There was ONGC up in trade, Tata
01:30Steel, JSW Steel, all in the green. Then IT had its share, but others like Bharti Airtel, NTPC,
01:37iShare. So, very wide bucket of stocks participating and even HDFC Bank and Reliance
01:42contributing to gains today, not in the negative and therefore didn't drag the index down lower
01:47too much, which is a good thing. The broader end of the spectrum punctuated by
01:51gains to newsmakers predominantly. So, if the BSE 500 gainers and losers list will also come up on
01:57your screen, you will see this. Engineers India, they had a presentation about what the company
02:01will do going ahead. 8% higher. Century Textiles, three days on a trot, doing very well for itself
02:06after buying that piece of land in Worli. There was strength in FDC. Volumes today, some block
02:11deals that have happened. So, big buying that happened here. Kalyan Jewellers, there was a
02:15brokerage note today from HSBC, upping the target price significantly. Another 5% for
02:20Gujarat. Floro in the session today as well, something regarding EV and subsidiaries thereof.
02:26On the losing side, granules at a 16% downtick on supposed strict observations coming in from
02:33the USFDA. Some cooling off for Prism Johnson, Raymond continues to go down, Phoenix Mills, etc.
02:39But really, the day belonged to the gainers in the session today and not the losers. The question
02:45only is, now that we've hit all-time highs and done it with such gusto, is there more steam left
02:50to close the week on a high tomorrow? Remains to be seen. But I'll keep a particular eye on metals
02:57in particular from within the commodity pack as well, because that is one bucket that you got to
03:03watch out for if indeed there are moves happening in China, because that's a space that will
03:08directly get impacted and even sentimentally so. So, that's one space to keep an eye out for,
03:13but no complaints today. Fantastic day of trade from a bulls perspective. Let's see if there is
03:18more in store. All right. Thanks for that update, Neeraj. And he mentioned a bunch of points and
03:25we will take that forward in a discussion with our guest, Ambrish Baliga, Independent Market
03:29Analyst, who joins us today. Mr. Baliga, welcome to this conversation. Greetings.
03:35Vishwanath Nair. So, let me take you through some of the questions that Neeraj had
03:39pointed out in his message. The first one specifically being with regard to what
03:46steam is left in the market and what Friday is likely to look like the last trading day of the
03:52week. If you can tell us a little bit about how you see today's moves versus now what is
03:58upcoming? Do you think that there is still some steam left?
04:02No, I think today's move was really unexpected. I don't think anyone really expected a major move
04:09up and that took this sort of a move. And I mean, if you see, it was a very sudden move.
04:15I think there were a couple of reasons. I mean, if you look back now over the last three,
04:19four hours, I think there are a couple of news which came and Neeraj also made a mention about
04:24that. I mean, the first one was about expectation that China would cut rates for mortgages and this
04:32could actually help spur demand in China, which again means that if the Chinese economy starts
04:38doing well, metals and the other sectors should do well. And that's one of the reasons the metal
04:43stocks moved up. The other news which was there, I mean, there was talk of some disengagement as
04:50far as the Chinese border is concerned. And I think this statement came from Dr. Jayashankar.
04:58So I think this was the other reason, I mean, for the markets to move up. And whenever there
05:04is a sharp move like this, typically it's those big boys buying the nifty. And if nifty moves up,
05:11I mean, immediately the arbitrage players come into play and because of which the stocks which
05:16are underlying the nifty, they also move up accordingly. So we have seen a major move up
05:21as far as the large caps are concerned, whereas mid caps, I mean, they've participated to a
05:26certain extent, but not in tandem. So I think looking at the sort of a move which we've seen
05:33today, yes, I think it can continue for tomorrow also to a certain extent. I think we should be
05:38bullish as far as tomorrow is concerned, basically because there will be a lot of people who have
05:43been caught on the wrong foot being shot on the nifty or shot on the market. So I think that
05:48covering also will come in. Right. You know, just a little while ago, you saw news coming in from
05:55the ECB, one of the larger central banks cutting rates now because the inflation print is looking
06:01a little weaker. Similarly, growth concerns are mounting. And later this month, you have the US
06:07Federal Reserve coming in with its own announcements as well. Hopefully, a rate cut is what the market
06:12is expecting. So to your mind, with the easing cycle sort of being kickstarted now,
06:20what is that going to mean for a lot of these large names that you mentioned earlier?
06:27No, I think, see, I mean, we could see because of this rate cut, at least the market move
06:34at least for a while. But then I think one also needs to be quite clear on the yen carry trade.
06:42I mean, if that starts unwinding, I think that will be the biggest danger as far as the market
06:48is concerned. So that's something to be closely watched out for. I mean, otherwise, looking at
06:53the sort of liquidity which is there in the market, we can see some more upside for a while.
07:00But then at the same time, the other thing which we should always remember is the fundamentals.
07:05I think, I mean, the valuations are getting stretched day by day. And even if you look at
07:10the latest quarter's earnings, which I think has been the worst quarter since COVID, but still,
07:16I mean, the markets move up because of liquidity. So, you know, coming to the domestic sort of
07:24trends at this point in time, you're seeing the inflation number that came out just about 530
07:28today, pointing at a slight uptick and the RBI governors, of course, pointing at you're likely
07:33to see inflation inch up again. They're not expecting a 525 to reach that 4% target. So
07:39rate cut conversations in India seem to be put on the back burner, at least for now.
07:43So you think there's going to be that differential that will play out in the market as well?
07:48Yeah, I think that differential will play out. I think, I mean, even the commentary which came
07:53from the RBI governor during the last monetary policy, I don't think we are really in a hurry to
07:59cut rates here. I mean, earlier we were expecting that RBI governor is waiting for Fed to start
08:05cutting rates. But even if that happens, I mean, like I said, we should see at least about 25 basis
08:11points, if not 25, possibly 50 basis points cut as far as Fed is concerned. But when it comes to
08:18RBI, I think they will hold the horses at least till the end of the year. Possibly we could see
08:24early next year in case we start seeing inflation really settling at lower levels.
08:30You know, you mentioned about, and of course, Neeraj was also talking about the fact that
08:35China is looking at a potential rate cut. There's, you mentioned the yen carry trade being
08:41one of the biggest risks facing the markets right now. Do you think that if a sort of stabilizing
08:48China in case this rate cut does pan out and it helps China sort of stabilize that growth,
08:53the growth concerns that they have, do you think that that should be enough to sort of reverse the
08:58trend if yen carry trade plays out at the same time? No, at least for the time being, I think
09:04that should be enough. But then we have seen this sort of news coming from China a number of times.
09:11We have not really seen that growth coming back in China as to what we have seen in the last
09:1615, 20 years. So, I mean, for that to happen, I really don't know whether just this rate cut will
09:22really help or not. But for the time being, I think it has helped the markets sentimentally
09:27to move up. But whether it sustains or not, that's a question mark.
09:30All right. I want to ask you the last couple of questions. Firstly, what then should investors
09:35look out for tomorrow? How should they be planning their trade, not just for the day,
09:39but also for the months ahead where things are likely to change?
09:44No, I mean, for a short term trader, clearly, I think one should go with the trend and the
09:49trend is up right now, especially after today's trade. I think we should see the uptrend at least
09:54for a day or two, if not a slightly longer time. But when it comes to an investor, I mean, I think
09:59most of the investors have made much, much more than what they would have expected. I mean,
10:03like the last two, three years have been superb for the markets. So I think somewhere we need to,
10:10I mean, like draw the line of greed and be happy with the sort of profits we have made.
10:16Take some profits home. That's what I've been telling everyone that, I mean, after a long time,
10:20we have seen markets like these and don't expect the markets to last like this forever. I mean,
10:26there'll be a time when we will see a correction. It's quite difficult for me to say as to when,
10:31but then there are like a number of red flags all around. And only when the correction happens,
10:36then we look back and say, okay, I mean, that was a red flag, which we missed out.
10:40So I think it's time to book profits, take some money home, at least take your capital out,
10:46because most of the portfolios have become multi-baggers in the last three to four years.
10:51So at least take your capital and your interest out and play with the balance.
10:55Right. That old analogy of, you know, everybody thinking that they are going to constantly win
11:00at the casino. Maybe that's not, that's probably not the approach you should be taking. But you
11:05mentioned red flags and, you know, maybe later on, we'll see some red flags, which could have
11:10been viewed earlier. But as of now, are you seeing something specific in the domestic markets?
11:14I mean, see, look at our growth. The corporate earnings, nothing too great. Like I said,
11:22it's been one of the worst quarters. I look at the GDP growth, it is lower than expected.
11:28Then, I mean, you look around now, the US elections, I mean, earlier, we were expecting
11:33that Trump will come back with a thumping majority. Now, it doesn't seem to be. I think the
11:38cards have changed there. So that also could be a bit negative as far as India is concerned.
11:44So, I mean, overall, if you look at the macro numbers, I mean, it's very difficult for these
11:49sort of macro numbers to keep continuing supporting the markets. And we should remember that
11:54liquidity is clearly linked to the sentiment. The day the sentiment changes, for whatever reason,
12:00all this liquidity which you're talking of can disappear overnight. I mean, we have seen that
12:04a number of times in the past. Right. Mr. Baliga, thank you so much
12:08for taking time out and talking to us today, sir. It was a pleasure as always.
12:14All right. So, we'll move on from the markets and look at some of the other stories that
12:21happened today. Of course, today, WhatsApp has intensified its reach amongst the small and
12:26medium-sized businesses in India with over 80% of Indians using WhatsApp for business
12:33communications. I'm joined by my colleague, Maitri Seth, who's going to give us a comprehensive
12:38breakdown of what exactly came from the sidelines of the WhatsApp Business Summit today.
12:44We are at the WhatsApp Business Summit, and this time, a lot of focus is being made on promoting
12:48SMEs through the platform. Amongst the fewer initiatives that have been recently launched
12:52by WhatsApp, one is WhatsApp Bharat Yatra, in which WhatsApp will train above 20,000 SMEs in
13:01India for using WhatsApp for their businesses and in a much better way. AI-backed assistant tools
13:08are also launched, like, for example, fresher features on voice assistants are coming up.
13:13For these SMEs to get a better experience on WhatsApp and not just to engage with clients
13:19and their customers in a better way, but also to engage within the organization in a much
13:25better format. Apart from that, what is happening here is a lot of fresh data has been cited to
13:33understand that how Indians are reacting to WhatsApp when it comes to handling their own
13:38businesses. According to a fresh data revealed today, over 80% Indians are actually using WhatsApp
13:45for their business transactions, among which above 60% prefer WhatsApp over other platforms
13:51for their businesses. Apart from that, a lot of focus is also being made in creating blue-tick
13:59accounts, especially SMEs' accounts will now have a blue-tick feature from Meta, which will not just
14:05give more visibility and not just provide brand building to these enterprises, but it will
14:11also power them with a lot many efficiency tools that will help them in growing their businesses.
14:18Now, a lot of firms have already shared their experiences out here. HDFC Bank, Policy Bazaar,
14:25SlurFarm, these enterprises, banks, everybody has talked about how WhatsApp has helped them in
14:33dealing with their customers in a better way and also helped them in reducing operating costs and
14:38boosting their top line. For instance, companies like Apollo 24 by 7 have reported a sharp growth
14:45in their test orders per day because of WhatsApp. Other instances that were shared today were how
14:53Maruti Suzuki has witnessed a significant surge in its test drive bookings because of this. Well,
14:58there is a lot more to understand and see out here because the event is not yet over.
15:06All right. Thanks for that, Maitri, for that update from the WhatsApp Business Summit.
15:10Of course, during the event, Vice President and Managing Director of Meta India, Sandhya
15:14Devanathan spoke about all the new initiatives that were taken by the company for small businesses
15:21being taken by WhatsApp. Now, of course, Sandhya Devanathan is going to be on your screens shortly,
15:27but essentially, WhatsApp Business is focused now on initiating more measures
15:33for small businesses to take up WhatsApp as a potential business tool. Please watch.
15:40Starting soon, we'll be cruising across various cities in the country to meet these small
15:46businesses directly on their turf and give them in-person training. So, we're looking at, you
15:52can see the numbers there, 6,000 kilometers, 20,000 businesses, 10 cities. We want to help them
15:58set up their WhatsApp business accounts. We want to help them create catalogs. We want to educate
16:04them on click-to-WhatsApp ads and so much more. We're also building a resource center on the app
16:10and our website, which will act as a quick access tutorial for small businesses across the country.
16:17All right. So, that was Sandhya Devanathan talking about what exactly WhatsApp Business will do for
16:22small businesses in India. I caught up with the business messaging head of Meta India, Ravi Garg,
16:27and asked him about the ambitions that WhatsApp, the chatting app, has for India. Please watch.
16:35WhatsApp Business has been an initiative that we started a few years back,
16:40an objective that the way we have been able to bring people close to people via WhatsApp as a
16:44consumer app, can we bring people closer to businesses and get simple things done in a few
16:49messages and a few clicks there? And we have been on this journey where we have been building
16:53capabilities and features to enable both small and large businesses to engage with consumers
16:58across the country. For large businesses, we have WhatsApp Business Platform, where we have
17:02enabled a lot of features and capabilities around flows, payments, and now we're introducing AI and
17:09capabilities around voice, where businesses can engage with large number of consumers
17:14in an automated way and get consumers to do things with the business, whether it's a banking
17:19inquiry or a commerce transaction or even transit ticket, train bookings and things like that.
17:24On small businesses, which is where we see a lot more opportunity for a market like India,
17:28where we have millions of small businesses, we have something called WhatsApp Small Business App,
17:32which is available for a download from any Play Store or App Store,
17:36wherein we have built capabilities for small businesses to build their business.
17:40They can create a small catalog, they can create auto responses, where when a user queries them,
17:46even the business is not available, the message can go back to the business, where we have created
17:51multi-device capabilities, where multiple people can engage with the business, with the consumer
17:56directly. And we're driving that growth and adoption across the small businesses in the
18:00country. So for us, we believe that WhatsApp can be that interface where both large and small
18:05businesses can grow their business and engage with large number of consumers via WhatsApp.
18:11Okay. One of the announcements that you made today was that you're opening up MetaVerified
18:18as an option for small businesses in India, right? How exactly, from what I understand,
18:25MetaVerified works as a sort of a circle of trust, right? Anybody who's interacting with
18:29a verified profile can place their complete trust on it. But how do you think this will
18:36help small businesses sort of grow? Absolutely. MetaVerified is definitely a marker of trust that
18:42we are wanting to build for consumers, where when they engage with a business who has got a verified
18:46batch, they feel comfortable and safe. And that is very necessary for small businesses. Honestly,
18:51for large businesses, people know the brand, they can engage, the brands have taken care of
18:56trust around that. But businesses, consumers don't know small businesses. When you get a message from
19:01a small business, you're normally hesitant saying, hey, should I respond? Even if you like the
19:05proposition that they have, you hesitate to respond. What MetaVerified will do when a small
19:10business gets a MetaVerified batch, when they engage with consumers, the consumers will find
19:15that business trustworthy because Meta would have done the verification. It's not like that
19:18business is claiming I'm verified. It's a batch that will go through a very stringent verification
19:23process. So that will help small businesses grow their business. Today, it's maybe the people
19:29around them know them, but when they start looking at expanding their business beyond their geography,
19:34this marker of trust will definitely help small businesses engage with a lot more customers. So
19:38we do believe MetaVerified will be a game changer for small businesses. Okay. I want to ask you a
19:43little bit about the way small businesses are using WhatsApp currently, right?
19:49There is an element of push where businesses can push their products, their offerings
19:56to individuals who are part of their pool of customers. But beyond that, what?
20:05Actually, the way we see WhatsApp, it's not just a messaging app for your neighborhood messaging.
20:11We see it as a digital surface, which can become an end for a small business where he can sort of
20:16create his digital identity and grow his business not only within his proximity, but across the
20:21globe, across the country. We have a service called what we call is Click to WhatsApp Ads,
20:25for example, where a small business can actually run ads on Facebook, Instagram, anywhere else,
20:30and gain and acquire customers from anywhere in the country or even in the globe, where when a
20:34user clicks on those ads, it starts a WhatsApp conversation and the small business can actually
20:39get the transaction done. Small businesses don't have their own app. They can't invest
20:42money in building apps. They don't have their websites. Not many people go to websites.
20:46So small business can actually become the digital identity for that business
20:50to grow his business across the globe with Click to WhatsApp Ads and other capabilities that we
20:55are building on a small business app. Okay. Payments as a space in India has
21:02sort of become this, you know, trying to give that power to small businesses to accept payments
21:09in a digital format. And of course, your business is also part of this. But I want to understand
21:16from WhatsApp business's point of view, when you're looking at the potential of the market,
21:22what portion do you think are we still in the early stages of tapping this massive potential?
21:26Honestly, payment is a necessary instrument for doing any transaction end to end. So,
21:32we are looking at payments as one of the features which is necessary to do building a
21:37commerce or a transaction business for any small business or large business.
21:40We have built capabilities like catalogs, cart, and then payments. So, we see this is a connected
21:47thread where small businesses will have their catalogs, which they can send to users. Users
21:52will create a cart and then a payment instrument can fulfill the journey. The way we see payment
21:58as a digital enabler for small businesses to grow their business.
22:01Okay. To your mind, what does the small business ecosystem need right now? Some of them are tech
22:09savvy, some of them not so much. But to push that sort of digital presence, what do you think?
22:17I think the biggest gap that we see is scaling, honestly. While we have built in so many
22:21capabilities and features, I do still feel small businesses are not very familiar or they don't
22:25know how to use these features. And we are taking a lot of steps on scaling that we would like to
22:30do to enable small businesses. Last year, we announced a partnership with GATE where we said
22:34we'll scale 10 million small businesses, and that's going very well, where we've created
22:38digital interfaces for small businesses to learn. We also announced a program with ONDC,
22:43where any merchant who wants to engage with ONDC will enable them to connect with ONDC,
22:47and then we'll impart training on how to run business where small businesses and
22:51entrepreneurs can grow their business. Today, we announced one more scaling initiative,
22:55which is what we call as WhatsApp Bharat Yatra, where we have taken an initiative where we will
23:00go to small businesses in multiple locations, different cities, different markets, camp there,
23:05and train these small businesses to really see how they can really leverage the capabilities that we
23:10have built on WhatsApp, help them run ads across different surfaces like Facebook, Instagram,
23:14one click to WhatsApp ad, and help them grow their business and teach them how to grow their business.
23:18I think the biggest initiative that we can do to really enable small businesses is around
23:22scaling, which is where we are investing a lot. Last couple of questions from my side.
23:27The one question is, there are obviously always going to be naysayers, right?
23:33What do you say to somebody who looks at small businesses going digital and say that you can
23:40never replace the touch and feel, and unless somebody comes to a shop, you're not really
23:45converted a customer? I think I would say both will coexist. Yes,
23:51users like to do touch and feel, and that's always going to be something that users will love.
23:57But then if you remain there, then it's only a small market that you can touch,
24:01because you will only be able to cater to your neighborhood geography. But everybody is looking
24:07at growing their business, and there's a lot more opportunity available beyond their geography.
24:11And that's where digital will come into place, where these businesses can actually create digital
24:14presence, run campaigns, run ads, and gain business not only from their neighborhood,
24:19but across the globe. We have seen businesses using small business app, actually getting business
24:24orders from across the globe, Middle East, US, Canada, many other markets. So I would say these
24:29are complementary and not competing in that. All right. That was Ravi Garg, the head of
24:35business messaging for Meta in India, talking about WhatsApp business and its focus on the
24:40small businesses. That's all we have today on the big story. Thank you so much for watching.
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