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00:00If I could describe Work It Out in three words, everything is okay.
00:04Hello, I'm Joe Jonas, and this is The Breakdown in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
00:19What's up, Joe?
00:19What's up, dude? Looking good.
00:21Did you grow that mustache just for me?
00:23Well, actually, I shaved it just for you.
00:25It was very thick before I mixed it.
00:26I shaved that thing down, so then I'm like, okay.
00:28Yeah.
00:29Now it looks a little, like, pubescent, but it's all right now.
00:32I like it.
00:33Are you in Los Angeles? Yes, it's your home studio.
00:35Yeah.
00:36Jason Evigan, incredible singer-songwriter-producer,
00:40who I was lucky enough to work with on Work It Out.
00:43I would say, like, it's probably around an hour we got this song done.
00:47Yeah, it was very fast.
00:48Jason Evigan, who's been a longtime friend of mine.
00:51I was playing him music.
00:52I bumped into him at a coffee shop, and we've been trying to find time to work together.
00:56And I was like, I want to play you some stuff.
00:57I think, like, this is really exciting.
00:59I would love to work with you.
01:00And he's worked with everyone from Charli XCX to Troye Sivan, Dua Lipa as well.
01:05Just a lot of songs you hear on the radio that you would be familiar with.
01:09He's just brilliant.
01:10And he heard it, and he heard most of the songs, and he was like,
01:13fuck, yeah, I've got ideas.
01:15I've got ideas.
01:16And he texted me just the intro.
01:20I thought it was going to be, like, a ballad,
01:22and then it goes to this kind of, like, Strokes-y drum beat.
01:24And I was like, oh, cool.
01:26And we were wrapping the album up, and I was like, you know what?
01:28I really need to work on this song.
01:29I need to get in the studio with him.
01:31I have something I need to, like, say that I haven't been able to say in the other nine songs,
01:35ten songs, and I want to try to get it together.
01:39So long story short was just getting Jason on his one day off and getting in the studio.
01:46And we wrote it, I think, in maybe an hour.
01:48The song has a lot of really interesting, weird things.
01:51Like, for instance, one time, okay, so, like, these headphones, right?
01:55They started malfunctioning one time, and it made these craziest sounds.
02:00I was like, dude, let's sample it.
02:01So I sampled it, and I made a whole drum kit out of it.
02:03So most of the drums are made out of a broken pair of headphone sounds.
02:08And then the drum fill, like, all the live drums were all recorded on an iPhone.
02:12Yeah, and then there's, like, I have this tape machine player that was sitting in my
02:16studio for, like, a couple years.
02:17My wife bought it as, like, an antique just for looks.
02:20And my friend was like, what did you plug into that?
02:21I remember it was so loud in the first, like, first version we had.
02:27It was so loud that we were like, it's awesome.
02:29But I don't know if everyone's going to like this as much as we do.
02:32Yeah, can you mellow it out a little bit?
02:33Yeah.
02:47Well, it sounds great.
02:48So we recorded this, like, in a room like this, not like an isolated booth, which we
02:53did a lot.
02:53There's a bunch of songs on this album that we just kind of sang a little handheld in
02:58a room, like a busy room with the music playing, which we kind of like.
03:01It bleeds some of the music in the background, but it adds something to it.
03:04So I think it's a good introductory track because it nods to some of the emotion that
03:08you'll listen to in the album sonically.
03:10I mean, there's a lot of inspiration from artists like The Strokes to even Daft Punk,
03:16like, stuff that's all over the place.
03:18And then a lot of, like, Western music.
03:19So, like, there's country Western, but there's, you can't really hear that here.
03:23But I feel like some of the guitars in the beginning, it nods to what else is to come.
03:28And Jason, just being how talented he is, was able to listen to two other producers
03:33and kind of marry the two and find a way that kind of brings it all together.
03:42But also the thing that I think is really funny is that the first verse background vocals
03:48that are kind of tough, pretty, you won't be able to hear it, I guess.
03:50But I'm going to turn it up.
03:54It's just like we just threw a bunch of stuff out and I can't believe we kept all of it.
04:04I'm just going to isolate it now.
04:08Yeah.
04:09So Blush, who's an amazing writer, producer, singer, amazing songwriter, she and I worked
04:16together for the first time.
04:17Justin Trannor brought her in for one session.
04:19Justin Trannor, I wrote a lot of DNC songs with, Cake by the Ocean with.
04:24And we got in the studio and he's like, I want you to meet Blush.
04:27And I just fell in love.
04:28I was like, she's so talented.
04:30Her choices, her melodies were really unique.
04:33And I called her.
04:34I was like, I would love for you to work on this song with me because I kept hearing the
04:38same melody.
04:40And it was always following the guitar.
04:45That was the verse.
04:45And I was like, I wish we could go somewhere else with it.
04:48And she heard it for the first time.
04:49I didn't sing her the melody and she came up with something brand new.
04:52And I was like, yep, there it is.
05:06That's all Blush.
05:15That was so fun.
05:23And there was like, I think, I think we did about like seven, eight takes, but that was
05:29at the very end of the night.
05:30Maybe there's some tequila involved.
05:32So I wanted to make sure it sounded quite crazy.
05:35I was in the studio every day and I'm working on this religiously and wanting to make sure
05:40every lyric spoke true to me and spoke true to what I've been through and what I'm going
05:45through and hopefully what I think my audience is also going through.
05:50I remember we were all like, we don't want it to come off sounding like a preachy song.
05:55Right.
05:56So then we're like, so then we're like, what?
05:57Let's flip it.
05:58Let's be talking to ourselves in the song.
06:00And I think that's how the verses kind of took shape.
06:03Doesn't matter the volume is on.
06:09So, yeah, originally, that's all I heard.
06:10And I was like, oh, this is like a Beatles song.
06:15It was such an easy, it really flowed easier than most songs, actually, even to mixing
06:35and producing it.
06:36It was all like, I don't know, there's something very easy about it.
06:40We both were kind of stuck on the same melody, and that's why it was so nice to have Blush
06:43kind of show up and come up with something really unique.
06:47And also my favorite melody that she came up with is actually the pre-chorus.
06:50Sometimes I need reminding.
06:53Yeah.
06:54Just so left of what our brains did.
06:56And it was a refreshing experience.
07:01That's where in the song, you kind of come back, you break the fourth wall and you're
07:04like, you're talking to yourself, which is cool.
07:07From the first verse to the second verse is a big change.
07:10Where the first verse, I think it's talking in third person.
07:12And then it was like the second verse is more so like opening it up, like talking to everybody.
07:18Yeah.
07:18Okay.
07:19Maybe I'm a little dramatic.
07:21Accepting that you're just a little crazy sometimes.
07:26I have this little yellow notebook I bring everywhere with me.
07:29And the first line of it says, even if.
07:31So it's even if like things can be really overwhelming or stressful.
07:34It's like, I'll be okay.
07:35It'll be okay.
07:36Or I'll figure it out.
07:37Whatever that version of figuring it out looks like for myself.
07:41So I wanted to write something that was honestly just speaking in third person of like, you're
07:45going to be, Hey, look in the mirror.
07:47You got this.
07:48It might be overwhelming right now, but this will find its way to the right place to go
07:54there in the beginning and say, all right, this is, this is essentially my journal.
07:58Take it and have a place where I feel really safe.
08:03Sometimes as a songwriter, you walk into a room and you meet somebody for the first time
08:07and then it's like, all right, so like, what have you been going through?
08:09Do you want to write something?
08:10And luckily all these people I've either worked with before, I were hung out with them
08:13before and really respected.
08:15So blush and Jason, two friends of mine and being able to just walk in a room and not
08:21feel like it's a bit like pulling teeth and trying to find tap into the emote where we
08:25are all relating.
08:26And that was, that's where I raised my hand and said, I think I'm missing a song that
08:29says, you know, you go through a lot of crazy shit in your life and sometimes daily and
08:34ultimately like it's going to be fine.
08:37Jason, I remember when we spoke, we were all relating on like being parents and things
08:41that were stressing us out and things that I think we walked in there pretty caffeinated.
08:46So we were all a little, we were all a little anxious and talking about, well, like, this
08:49is funny.
08:49And then just the humor and some of the lyrics to be able to look at yourself third person
08:56and say like, wow, you're being really ridiculous.
08:59And also sometimes even like an hour or two later, you realize whatever you were really
09:03stressed about was not a big deal.
09:05And it's probably in your head.
09:07The first verse has a lyric, sometimes I wish I had powers to be invisible.
09:11The other day, somebody was like, oh, if you had powers, what would you, what would you
09:15do?
09:15And I was like, yeah, the answer is I'd probably mess with my friends a lot.
09:18But the truth about that lyric is it's probably the heaviest lyric of the song because it's
09:23talking about feeling like you don't know where you belong and you're, you feel like
09:29maybe I'm supposed to be on a different continent.
09:32Maybe I'm supposed to be in a different era, but I'm not sure who I am.
09:36I'm not sure where I'm supposed to like land my feet.
09:39And you're almost questioning your sanity.
09:41But I think all of us can feel overwhelmed and stressed.
09:44And even an hour or two later, you're like, I've got to handle this myself and deal with
09:49it and grow.
09:51View of mental health has changed a lot over time and especially music industry.
09:54And it's also so nice to talk about our feelings and not feel like you have to sugarcoat them
10:00or it's embarrassing.
10:01Obviously, artists have always used their music as a tool to express what they're going
10:06through.
10:06But we can also talk about it.
10:08And I think a lot of the songs, even on my album, are emotional and sometimes heavy.
10:14But then there are tunes on there that are also like this, where sonically, I think it's
10:19upbeat and fun.
10:20And until you're dissecting the lyrics, hopefully you'll realize like, oh, OK, we're talking
10:24about some real stuff and it's OK to do it in a lighthearted way.
10:28If I was speaking to my 17-year-old self, I would say all the people that you think
10:33have it figured out don't.
10:34All the adults that you look up to that you're like, wow, they really have their shit together,
10:39they probably don't.
10:40And they're just a big kid in a suit trying to figure it out, too.
10:43So look back when I was 17 and I was like, so eager to become an adult, so eager to be
10:49accepted.
10:49And then it's OK to be your weird self because some point in your life, people will be thrilled
10:56that you are that version of yourself in front of a lot of other people.
10:59There would also be a few hairstyle choices.
11:03Maybe I would convince him to suede it out a bit before you do it.
11:09I think we could all look back at our yearbooks and laugh.
11:13Jason heard a few songs that were going to be on the album.
11:17And in classic genius Jason fashion, you sent me two songs.
11:23Both of them made the album.
11:24And this song obviously being the first intro.
11:28I don't know.
11:29We don't.
11:29What do you say anymore?
11:30I think single intro track.
11:31I'm not sure.
11:32But it's the first song you'll hear from this body of work.
11:34Yeah, the track already told such a cool story.
11:38So I was like, I feel like he'll get this.
11:39You know, I don't usually just send tracks to people, but that was cool.
11:44You made me think about this because Zayn Carney played on it as well.
11:49Zayn Carney is an amazing guitar player.
11:51His sister wrote on a lot of these songs in the body of work as well.
11:54But he was on a date at Universal and I texted.
11:58I was like, I have a song I really want you to play on.
12:00And I didn't know this.
12:01And he left the date to come play on this song.
12:04Yeah.
12:05And by the way, I also produced it with Zayn's, one of Zayn's best friend.
12:11His name is Kane.
12:11Kane Rashad.
12:13And Kane and Zayn showed up in my party.
12:14I was like, oh, you guys are friends.
12:15Kane and Zayn.
12:17So that was cool too.
12:17It's a very biblical name.
12:18Very.
12:20Yeah.
12:20Thanks, man.
12:21Have a good day.
12:22You too, guys.
12:22Yeah.
12:24I'm not sure what I would do if I didn't have music, to be honest.
12:27Like every morning I try to put pen to paper and write certain things I'm grateful for
12:32and quotes that I've come to love or things that I'm feeling really drawn to.
12:37But when it comes to music, I'm able to like walk away.
12:39I feel like sometimes emotion can be so tricky because you don't know where
12:47you need to have that output.
12:48It could be a friend for some people.
12:50I have a conversation or partner.
12:51It could be just writing it down.
12:54The fact that I'm able to use music as a tool when I know I need to.
12:59It's so refreshing to be able to create something and step away.
13:03And I think in the past, I would always write in a way where I'm like, all right,
13:07what are people going to think when they read or listen to this song?
13:11Instead, I was like, let me just be as honest as possible.
13:13Then I'll go back and tweak it if I feel like maybe it's a bit too poignant or
13:18if it's a bit too honest.
13:19But as artists and as creators, we have the opportunity to speak true to what we
13:26want to say.
13:27And I think your audience grows with you.
13:30You don't go in the studio and say, OK, what are the fans going to love?
13:35I love my fans.
13:36And I'm so grateful that I have had such a long, almost 20 years doing this now.
13:42And they're so supportive.
13:43But I also know that as they grow up, they want to hear something new.
13:47And they're discovering new music every week.
13:48And I'm not trying to chase a trend either.
13:50I think that's also important.
13:51I feel like it's so easy to go, oh, this is like you try to create a song that's kind
13:55of similar to one that's hot right now.
13:58And then by the time you release it, it's so you just got to stay true to who you are
14:02as an artist and a person and live life.
14:04I feel like sometimes you can, for me at least, you can go in the studio and you'll be in
14:09the studio every single night for a year.
14:11And you're not out there actually living your life to find inspiration.
14:15Same. Truth.
14:16Bars.