• 6 months ago
The Senate Judiciary Committee holds a confirmation hearing for pending judicial nominees.

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Transcript
00:00:00Carla Campbell, nominated to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.
00:00:06Justice Julia Lupez, nominated to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit.
00:00:12Catherine Henry, nominated to the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
00:00:19And Mary Kay Lanthier, nominated to the U.S. District Court for the District of Vermont.
00:00:25And I want to congratulate, all of us want to congratulate the nominees and their families.
00:00:31I have the privilege of introducing Ms. Lanthier and Ms. Campbell today, but we also have several
00:00:37visiting senators here to introduce the nominees from their home state.
00:00:42But first, I'd like to turn to Ranking Member Graham for any opening remarks Senator Graham
00:00:48may have.
00:00:49Well, thank you very much.
00:00:50Here's an effort, I think Senator Cruz has come up with a new bill about, for lack of
00:00:56a better term, deepfakes, where young women are basically shamed and exploited on social
00:01:02media.
00:01:04This committee has passed bill after bill that pretty much unanimously trying to give
00:01:10Americans who feel harmed by these sites some recourse.
00:01:14So to those colleagues of ours who object, you have a right to do so, but you better
00:01:19have an idea.
00:01:20You just can't come and object.
00:01:22So I am going to be like a dog with a bone on this.
00:01:26Section 230 needs to be replaced.
00:01:29It's creating havoc and chaos.
00:01:32The next thing I hope this committee will do is have a hearing about sunsetting Section
00:01:36230 to put it on a clock so we can get some of the attention of the social media outlets.
00:01:41They're never going to pay us any attention until they lose or think they may lose their
00:01:46legal liability.
00:01:47This is the most important thing domestically I think we can do in the near term because
00:01:52it is destroying this country.
00:01:55Depression among young girls is going through the roof.
00:01:58People are being abused on social media with absolutely no recourse.
00:02:02So Senator Cruz, thank you for your effort.
00:02:04Senator Blackburn, everybody on this committee is working in a bipartisan fashion.
00:02:09So to my colleagues, if you object, I look forward to working with you, but you can object
00:02:14and just let it go.
00:02:15I'm not going to let that happen.
00:02:18Thank you, Senator Graham.
00:02:19We'll now hear introductions for our nominees and first is Senator Casey, who is here to
00:02:25introduce Ms. Henry.
00:02:26Senator Casey.
00:02:27Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
00:02:29I want to thank you and the ranking member for this opportunity to speak before the committee
00:02:34today.
00:02:35I have the proud privilege today to introduce Kathy Henry, the nominee to serve on the United
00:02:40States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
00:02:44I'd like to thank her family and friends, particularly in her family, her husband Todd
00:02:50and her two children, Madeline and Zachary, who have traveled here today to support her.
00:02:55I'd also like to take a moment to acknowledge Judge Ed Smith, the judge whose seat Kathy
00:03:00has been nominated to fill and who sadly passed away late last year.
00:03:05Judge Smith was a man who dedicated his career to service as a 27-year Navy veteran, court
00:03:11of common pleas judge, a federal district court judge, and I was proud to work with
00:03:16Senator Toomey to recommend and confirm him in 2014.
00:03:21Judge Smith made the Lehigh Valley a stronger community and a better place, and I'm grateful
00:03:26that Kathy Henry has agreed to serve, continue to serve, I should say, in the Lehigh Valley
00:03:32should she be confirmed to this position.
00:03:37Here's part of Kathy's background.
00:03:38She was born in New Jersey, graduated from Drew University, earned her law degree from
00:03:43the District of Columbia Law School before she moved to Philadelphia.
00:03:47For over 25 years in the Eastern District, Kathy has dedicated her career to serving
00:03:52as a public defender, first with the Defender Association of Philadelphia and then the Federal
00:03:58Community Defender Office.
00:04:00In 2008, after only six years in federal practice, she was promoted to senior litigator in the
00:04:07Federal Community Defender Office, and in 2018, she was invited to join the American
00:04:13College of Trial Lawyers, a highly selective organization widely acknowledged as the preeminent
00:04:18trial lawyer association in the nation.
00:04:22Her reputation and talent as a trial attorney has been matched only by her broader commitment
00:04:27to the legal community in the Eastern District, where she has mentored many young attorneys
00:04:33whose teaching at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, or I should say, while teaching
00:04:38at the University of Pennsylvania Law School and Temple University Visa School of Law.
00:04:43As a career public defender, Kathy has served as a zealous advocate for indigent criminal
00:04:48defendants, a constitutional necessity under our system of justice, but just as important,
00:04:54she never lost sight of her commitment to the rule of law and the broader ethical obligations
00:05:00as an attorney.
00:05:02There is no better example of her standing in the community than the letters of support
00:05:05submitted to this committee and signed by over 140 attorneys in support of her nomination.
00:05:12These signatories range from Democrats to Republicans, from former federal prosecutors
00:05:17to current public defenders, from district court judges to current litigators for Fortune
00:05:24500 companies.
00:05:25The breadth of support for Kathy's nomination has been remarkable, but given that she has
00:05:30spent her entire career as a public defender, I want to specifically highlight the letters
00:05:36submitted by 57, 57 former federal prosecutors, a group that includes a former U.S. attorney,
00:05:45first assistant U.S. attorneys, criminal division chiefs, unit supervisors, and assistant United
00:05:54States attorneys.
00:05:56Here is in part what they wrote, quote, during our service as federal prosecutors, we collectively
00:06:03practiced before dozens of judges and opposite hundreds of defense lawyers litigating countless
00:06:10criminal cases.
00:06:11It is from that experience and knowledge of Kathy's exceptional work as a public defender
00:06:16that we carefully and confidently offer our support.
00:06:20She quite clearly shares our deep respect for the rule of law, integrity, appreciation
00:06:26for the essential role our courts play, and a strong sense of justice.
00:06:31And it is these qualities that make her an excellent addition to the federal bench, unquote.
00:06:36I can think of no higher praise for a public defender coming from a group of federal prosecutors.
00:06:43When I make a determination, as I know is true of every senator, whether I should support
00:06:48a candidate for a federal district court judgeship, I make that determination based
00:06:53upon a number of factors.
00:06:56The nominee's commitment to the rule of law, their intellect, their integrity, their experience,
00:07:02their temperament, and in Kathy's case, when I made that assessment, I found her wanting
00:07:10in none of those qualities.
00:07:12As highlighted by her stellar career and her broad support from across the district, she
00:07:17has not only met those expectations, she has exceeded them.
00:07:20So I'm pleased the committee is moving forward on her nomination.
00:07:23I look forward to continuing to work to confirm her, and I thank you for giving me this opportunity
00:07:28to talk about Kathy Henry.
00:07:30Thank you very much.
00:07:31Thank you, Senator Casey.
00:07:32And now I'd like to recognize Senator King, who is here to introduce Judge Lopez.
00:07:40Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
00:07:41And before beginning, I want to associate myself with the remarks of Senator Graham
00:07:45and Senator Cruz.
00:07:47I'm with you on that issue.
00:07:48I think, Senator Cruz, I'm co-sponsor of your bill.
00:07:51This is something we've absolutely got to address, and I appreciate your leadership
00:07:55on that.
00:07:57I spent eight years as governor of Maine, and in that time, I appointed probably 25
00:08:02judges, including two chief justices, Supreme Court justices, Superior Court, District Court.
00:08:10When I did that, I never cared about their parties.
00:08:13I never looked into partisanship.
00:08:15I looked for qualifications, but more importantly, judicial temperament.
00:08:20As a practicing lawyer, I got to appreciate judicial temperament and humility.
00:08:26My least favorite courthouse was one with an arrogant judge.
00:08:31And so those qualities, those intangible qualities, to me are as important as the specific qualifications.
00:08:40So what about Julia Lopez?
00:08:44I have never seen a broader expression of support for a judicial nominee.
00:08:49In fact, I have to say, I've never seen a stronger candidate for a judicial position
00:08:54than Julia Lopez.
00:08:58Unanimously well qualified by the ABA, an extraordinary letter from the Maine Bar Association
00:09:06made up of lawyers from across the state, all parties, all backgrounds.
00:09:10Extraordinary support.
00:09:11These letters are all in the files of the committee.
00:09:13I urge you to review them.
00:09:16An exceptional letter from the assistant U.S. attorneys that served with her in the U.S.
00:09:22Attorney's Office.
00:09:23She was a U.S. attorney, assistant U.S. attorney through two administrations, maybe three.
00:09:28Again, no hint of partisanship.
00:09:31In that position in the U.S. Attorney's Office, she led the prosecution of sex trafficking
00:09:37and was a national leader in that area and was also appointed chief of the appellate
00:09:43division of the U.S. Attorney's Office in Maine.
00:09:46Exceptional career there.
00:09:47She had a career as a private litigator.
00:09:50Her former partners.
00:09:52I also got a letter this week from the governor who had appointed her to the Maine Superior
00:09:56Court several years ago.
00:10:00Again, very, very strong recommendation.
00:10:04But perhaps the strongest recommendation for this committee is that she was unanimously
00:10:10confirmed by the Maine State Senate, which I can assure you is made up of both parties.
00:10:17She was unanimously reported out by our Judiciary Committee in the state and then unanimously
00:10:22confirmed by the Maine State Senate.
00:10:25I think that is an exceptional data point that this committee should consider.
00:10:32This is a person who has demonstrated incredible experience, education, qualifications, and
00:10:41the letters that I've seen, I've never seen anything like them.
00:10:48People that have appeared before from the district attorney who appeared before from
00:10:54the Attorney General of Maine talking about her being fair-minded, intelligent, capable.
00:11:02The district attorney says I was always struck by the genuine care that she shows to everyone
00:11:07in the courtroom.
00:11:09As I said, this individual, Julia Lopez, I think is the best qualified judicial candidate
00:11:16I have ever seen.
00:11:17Oh, and I forgot to mention, in the file is a letter that I've never seen before from
00:11:24our two most recent retired Supreme Court Chief Justices.
00:11:29One Democrat, one Republican.
00:11:31I've never seen anything like that before.
00:11:34So you've got people who work with her in the U.S. Attorney's Office, Chief Justices,
00:11:39the Maine Bar, an extraordinary level of support, totally nonpartisan, and I think Julia Lopez
00:11:47would be an extraordinary, extraordinary member of the First Circuit.
00:11:52She is smart, capable, qualified, but also humble and has a perfect judicial temperament.
00:12:01I want to thank the committee for their consideration.
00:12:04I think this is a nomination that would do honor to this committee, to the Senate, and
00:12:09ultimately to our judicial system.
00:12:11Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:12:12Thank you very much, Senator King.
00:12:14And now I'd like to recognize Senator Sanders, who is here to introduce Ms. Lanthier.
00:12:20Senator Sanders.
00:12:21Thank you, Senator Welch and Ranking Member Graham.
00:12:23I am glad to be here, to recommend Mary Kay Lanthier to be the next district court judge
00:12:29for the District of Vermont.
00:12:32I would also like to welcome Ms. Lanthier's family here today.
00:12:35She is joined by her mother, Violet, her husband, David, her children, Andrew, Alison, and Matt,
00:12:40and her granddaughter, Rona.
00:12:42Ms. Lanthier is a native Vermonter who has spent her entire career in her home state,
00:12:48including working as a public defender in Rutland for more than 15 years.
00:12:54Ms. Lanthier grew up in the state of Vermont with parents who ensured their children had
00:13:00a better life than they did, and who emphasized the importance of serving her community.
00:13:07She learned that lesson well, and has dedicated her career to being a public defender.
00:13:13In that capacity, she has fought for her clients to have a fair chance in the courtroom.
00:13:19If she is confirmed, I am confident that she will make sure that all of the people who
00:13:24appear in front of her are treated in a way that is fair and unbiased.
00:13:32Ms. Lanthier began her legal career as a judicial law clerk for the trial courts in Chittenden
00:13:37and Addison Counties, where she developed a deep love and dedication for the work of
00:13:43Vermont courtrooms.
00:13:44Earlier in her career, she worked in private practice and public defense, working on family
00:13:51law workers' compensation and criminal cases.
00:13:54Since 2007, she has served as a supervising attorney at the Rutland County Public Defender's
00:14:01Office.
00:14:02In that role and throughout her career, she has developed a reputation as a respectful
00:14:07and skilled attorney.
00:14:09Judges have praised her preparation, and opposing lawyers have written letters in support of
00:14:14her nomination.
00:14:16As one of those letters says, quote, Ms. Lanthier's compassion is a virtue that improved the administration
00:14:24of justice, end quote.
00:14:26In November, I was pleased to be joined by Senator Welch with input from Congresswoman
00:14:31Ballant in forming a nonpartisan judicial nomination advisory panel to fill this vacancy
00:14:38on the federal bench in Vermont.
00:14:40The panel was impressed by Mary Kay's career in public defense, her stellar reputation
00:14:45in the legal community, and her warmth and empathy.
00:14:49I was also impressed after interviewing her.
00:14:52One thing that struck me was not only her deep love of the law, but her deep love of
00:14:56Rutland, where this judgeship is based.
00:14:59For Mary Kay, I know there is particular pride in doing this important work in her hometown,
00:15:07the town that she grew up in, and for being a role model for the young people growing
00:15:12up there today about what is possible.
00:15:15Along with Senator Welch, I was pleased to recommend that President Biden nominate her
00:15:20for this position.
00:15:22She will be an excellent district court judge for Rutland and for the state of Vermont.
00:15:26I'm confident that she will treat everyone in the courtroom with the compassion, respect,
00:15:31and dignity they deserve, and I would strongly encourage this committee to report out her
00:15:37nomination favorably.
00:15:39Thank you.
00:15:40Thank you, Senator Sanders.
00:15:41We'll take a moment to pause to allow the Senators to return to their other duties,
00:15:47and I thank all the Senators for your gracious introductions.
00:15:50Thank you.
00:15:51Thank you.
00:16:07I'm honored to join my colleague, Senator Sanders, in introducing Mary Kay Lanthier
00:16:12to the committee.
00:16:14I've been a member of the Vermont Bar for many decades.
00:16:18I know the Bar, the court, and the state will benefit from her incredible service,
00:16:23and as Senator Sanders said, she has widespread support in Vermont, and I'm going to introduce
00:16:30into the record a number of letters that attest to that.
00:16:35But I want to just read from a few of them.
00:16:37The letters speak to Ms. Lanthier's capability and suitability for the job, along with her
00:16:43warmth and her collegiality and her dedication to public service.
00:16:48I just want to read a couple of quotes.
00:16:50Her supervisor for the last 18 years wrote, it's apparent that Ms. Lanthier has a special
00:16:55gift for evaluating issues and people in the course of her legal practice and policy work,
00:17:01and she's uniquely empathetic to the concerns of clients, witnesses, and everyone who's
00:17:06involved.
00:17:08From the director of the police academy, I've known Mary Kay personally for approximately
00:17:1320 years, and I've come to really appreciate her talents over the last 10 years or so,
00:17:19and in conversation, his conversation with his law enforcement colleagues, I find their
00:17:25experiences and interactions with Mary Kay are all similar.
00:17:29And from the prosecutors, you know, Mary Kay has been a defense lawyer.
00:17:33You work with prosecutors.
00:17:34You're on the opposite side of the case.
00:17:36But those prosecutors who've worked with her day in and day out really respect her.
00:17:42While we routinely disagree and advocate against each other's position in the courtroom,
00:17:47it is through that process that we have come to know Attorney Lanthier to embody the highest
00:17:52principles of practice of law.
00:17:54We strongly believe she is the right person to serve as the next federal district court
00:17:58judge of Vermont.
00:18:01And finally, on a personal level, I want to refer to something that Senator King said
00:18:05because it reminds me of Mary Kay.
00:18:07She's from a small town, less than 1,500 people.
00:18:10Her mom, who's here as the postmistress and has been for years, doesn't drive but can
00:18:17make it to the post office to make sure people get their mail.
00:18:21Her dad worked in the slate quarry.
00:18:23And she in Vermont has the small-town values that I know many of my colleagues, especially
00:18:29on your side, have.
00:18:31She grew up in a town of 1,500, and I did a little research.
00:18:34I understand Senator Graham, 5,200, and Senator Grassley, 570 people, Senator Hawley, 4,700,
00:18:44and Senator Cotton, 4,500.
00:18:48Senator Blackburn, you were in a big town, I understand, 17,000 or so.
00:18:53Well, there's something special about Vermont, but I think you'd probably say there's something
00:19:00special about where you came from, because in these small towns, you know the people
00:19:05and you accept them.
00:19:07And the biggest thing you want to do is help them and serve them, and it's that quality
00:19:11of humility, of empathy, of compassion, that in addition to extraordinary legal ability.
00:19:18So I'm very enthusiastic about Mary Kay and join in Senator Sanders' support.
00:19:29Thank you.
00:19:30We have one more introduction that I'll make on behalf of Carla Campbell.
00:19:37Carla Campbell has been nominated to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.
00:19:42Ms. Campbell, who's originally from Knoxville, Tennessee, attended the University of Virginia
00:19:47and Georgetown University Law Center.
00:19:50She then spent two years as an international affairs specialist with the Department of
00:19:55the Interior before entering private practice here in Washington, D.C.
00:20:00In 2009, Ms. Campbell moved back to her home state, where she later clerked for the Sixth
00:20:05Circuit Judge Jane Stranch, whose seat she now has been nominated to fill.
00:20:12She spent the last 15 years working at Stranch, Jennings, and Garvey in Nashville, where she
00:20:18has developed a practice representing employees in a broad range of civil litigation, including
00:20:24workers' compensation, wage and hour suits, and workplace injury suits.
00:20:29Over the course of her career, Ms. Campbell has served as lead counsel in both individual
00:20:34cases and class actions at every stage of litigation, and she has argued multiple appeals
00:20:40to the Sixth Circuit.
00:20:42The committee has received several letters in support of her nomination, including from
00:20:47the Tennessee District Attorneys, the Nashville Firefighters and Fire Service Employees Association.
00:20:53I congratulate Ms. Campbell and her family on this nomination, and I look forward to
00:20:58hearing her testimony today.
00:21:01Colleagues, Senator Blackburn has asked to make remarks on the nomination, and I now
00:21:06recognize Senator Blackburn for three minutes.
00:21:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:21:10You know, I am really saddened and really quite astounded that once again I am here
00:21:17today having to oppose a circuit nominee from my home state because this administration
00:21:24has completely shut Senator Hagerty and I out of this process.
00:21:29This is now the fourth time, the fourth time that they have disregarded Tennessee Senators
00:21:37and thereby the people of our state.
00:21:41It should concern every member of this committee.
00:21:44We know we don't have a blue slip on this process, and I'm not asking for veto power
00:21:50or even my preferred nominee, but I'm asking for the constitutional instruction of advice
00:21:58and consent in the process, just like the framers intended.
00:22:04And now for the fourth time, the White House has refused to extend that longstanding bipartisan
00:22:12construct to Senator Hagerty and me.
00:22:16Of course, the White House bad faith should come as no surprise.
00:22:20As everybody on this committee knows, just a few weeks ago we held a hearing on another
00:22:26Tennessee Sixth Circuit nominee, Kevin Ritz, whom the White House hand-selected in a backroom
00:22:32deal before the judicial vacancy was even announced.
00:22:38And had the White House consulted us, they might have avoided nominating a man whose
00:22:44record of ethical misconduct makes him unqualified and unconfirmable.
00:22:51Ms. Campbell's nomination follows the same troubling pattern.
00:22:56As with Kevin Ritz, the White House entered into a backroom deal to appoint Ms. Campbell
00:23:02to this vacancy from the very start.
00:23:06Judge Strach agreed to step down in exchange for the White House appointing her former
00:23:12law clerk, an attorney at her husband's law firm.
00:23:17The die was cast before the judicial vacancy was even announced, but had the White House
00:23:22consulted us on her candidacy, they might have avoided nominating someone whose radical
00:23:30political affiliations render her, in the opinion of many in Tennessee and many members
00:23:38of the Tennessee Bar, completely unqualified for the role of a federal judge.
00:23:45And I'm sure we're going to talk more about that today.
00:23:49Senator Tillis said it well last month at Kevin Ritz's markup, and I'll say it again
00:23:55today in closing.
00:23:58Remember this moment.
00:24:01Remember this.
00:24:02If you don't stand with us in opposing the White House complete disregard for home state
00:24:10senators in this process, you need to remember this moment.
00:24:14The shoe will at some point soon be on the other foot.
00:24:17Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:24:19Thank you, Senator Blackburn.
00:24:21Just respond briefly, but we've had discussions about the blue slip process in this committee,
00:24:27so I won't go through that again.
00:24:30But my understanding is the White House, from their perspective, did have some consultation.
00:24:34I'll just go through it.
00:24:36Mr. Chairman, they did not.
00:24:38They did not.
00:24:39And we have all the documentation to show that.
00:24:42Not once, not twice, not three, but four times.
00:24:45I thank the senator for that.
00:24:48The version from the White House is that they notified Tennessee senators that the president
00:24:53was interested in nominating Ms. Campbell to the Sixth Circuit in October.
00:24:59Staff for both Tennessee senators then interviewed Ms. Campbell in both October and November,
00:25:05as I am told.
00:25:06The White House Counsel's Office then interviewed multiple candidates, I think that were suggested
00:25:11by Tennessee senators, and even expressed that it would be willing to nominate one of
00:25:15those candidates to another judicial vacancy, an offer I think that was rejected.
00:25:21So there is a disagreement here, but you've made very clear, you and Senator Tillis, your
00:25:27point of view, and I thank you for that.
00:25:36We will now impanel our first two candidates, and they are the Circuit Court judges, and
00:25:47I would invite the Honorable, give me one moment here, Ms. Campbell and Ms. Lupez can
00:26:00come to the table, and we will administer the oath.
00:26:07Mr. Chairman.
00:26:08Senator from Louisiana.
00:26:09While we're waiting for our nominees to come forward, I want to make a request, and obviously
00:26:15it's your call, but we don't often have two Court of Appeal nominees before us at the
00:26:21same time, and as you can see, we don't have many members who are there, as many as we
00:26:27usually do, and I wanted to ask the Chair if you would consider giving us, instead of
00:26:33five minutes to question both nominees, giving us seven or eight minutes.
00:26:38Would that be okay?
00:26:39No, I won't rule on that until we, let's get going and see how we're doing, but I see your
00:26:44point and we don't have many, but let's- I recommend you consider that.
00:26:4830, please.
00:26:49We'll do six minutes, we'll do six minutes for you, Senator.
00:26:52Sugar on top?
00:26:53We got six minutes, you're, don't overstay your welcome here on that question.
00:27:01Please stand, you are standing, and I'll deliver the oath of office.
00:27:05Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give before the committee will be the truth,
00:27:10the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
00:27:14Okay, thank you.
00:27:17Ms. Campbell, please proceed with your opening statement.
00:27:37Thank you.
00:27:39Chair Welch, Ranking Member Graham, members of the committee, my sincere thanks to you
00:27:46all for this opportunity, and my thanks to President Biden for the honor of this nomination.
00:27:53When I was in high school in Knoxville, I took a pre-law class one summer, and after
00:27:59that class, I came home excited, and I said to my mother, I think I'd like to be a judge.
00:28:06And my mom, being my unabashed supporter, said, I think you'd be a great judge.
00:28:13You should give it a try.
00:28:16My mom passed away in the fall, and I regret that she is not here at this hearing today,
00:28:22but I know she would have been proud.
00:28:24I want to take this opportunity to extend my thanks to my home state senators.
00:28:30Senator Blackburn, Senator Hagerty, my mom's death came in the middle of my interviews
00:28:35with your staff for this position, and the folks in your office treated me with incredible
00:28:40empathy, sending condolences and kind notes.
00:28:44I have carried those notes with me these last few months, and they remind me how lucky I
00:28:51am to be a Tennessean.
00:28:55Many people have supported me today on my journey in this process, and I want to take
00:28:58a moment to thank them as well.
00:29:00My dad, Eric, who raised me never to give up and always to keep fighting.
00:29:06My work dad, Jim, and all my colleagues at my firm.
00:29:10To the dozens of colleagues in the bar, friends, clients who have supported me and advocated
00:29:16for me, thank you.
00:29:20Here with me today are my longtime friends, Sarah and Courtney, and my husband, Edwin.
00:29:26For the last 20 years, my husband has patiently listened to me describe what probably seems
00:29:32like an endless litany of fanciful hopes and dreams to him, but his response has always
00:29:37been the same, how can I help?
00:29:40I am so grateful for his partnership.
00:29:43Finally, I want to acknowledge that I have been nominated for a seat held previously
00:29:48by two trailblazing women in the Tennessee bar, Judge Jane Branstetter-Stranch and Judge
00:29:55Martha Craig Daughtry.
00:29:58Thank you both for your example.
00:30:01And to the most important ladies in my life, my two daughters, I hope that one day, not
00:30:07too long from now, they'll want to watch a video of this hearing and be proud of me,
00:30:13because I am so proud of them.
00:30:16Thank you, Senators, for your time, and I welcome your questions.
00:30:26Good morning.
00:30:29I wish to thank Chairman Welch and Ranking Member Graham for convening this morning's
00:30:34hearing.
00:30:35Thank you to Senator Collins and Senator King for the distinguished service to the people
00:30:39of Maine, and thank you to Senator King for his kind introductory remarks.
00:30:44Finally, thank you to President Biden for the honor of this nomination.
00:30:47I am truly humbled to be here.
00:30:51I am joined today by many of the most important people in my life.
00:30:54First, my husband, Nolan Reichel, who has been my best friend and partner for nearly
00:30:5820 years.
00:31:00His unwavering support has made all good things possible.
00:31:04I am so grateful for the life and family we have built together.
00:31:08Our two children, the lights of our lives, are here as well.
00:31:11I think they're reading in the back now.
00:31:13We are so proud of their kindness, intelligence, and creativity.
00:31:17They are both avid baseball players, and although they have been very excited about the opportunity
00:31:21to visit the Senate this morning, I think they are even more excited about our planned
00:31:25trip to the Nationals game this afternoon.
00:31:28I am also joined by my parents, Nancy Ziegler and Kermit Lopez, who have inspired me with
00:31:32their dedication to serving others.
00:31:35My mother was an attorney in private practice, who served two terms on the State Environmental
00:31:39Board.
00:31:40She also spent years as a public high school debate and mock trial coach, teaching many
00:31:44young people how to find their voices.
00:31:47My father, who is currently a senior judge on the First Circuit, has been a judge for
00:31:51nearly 40 years.
00:31:53His devotion to the law stems in part from the example set by his own father, my grandfather,
00:31:59who was a state trial court judge in Pennsylvania.
00:32:03Over 100 years ago, my grandfather was brought to this country as a young child by his parents,
00:32:08who were fleeing violence and anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe.
00:32:12In their wildest dreams, they could not have imagined that first their son, then their
00:32:16grandson, and now their great-granddaughter would have the opportunity to serve as judges
00:32:21in this great country.
00:32:24Also here today is my cousin and one of my biggest champions, Jill Moser, and my dear
00:32:28lifelong friend, Sharon Light.
00:32:31My sister, Erica, my brother-in-law, Dario, and my nephew are watching from home, as are
00:32:35my aunt, Joy Moser, and many other extended family and friends.
00:32:39I thank them all for their love and support.
00:32:42I would like to thank Judge Diana Motz of the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, for whom
00:32:46I had the privilege of clerking.
00:32:48She remains a model for me of judicial temperament, diligence, and integrity.
00:32:53I would also like to thank the many lawyers and judges from whom I have learned so much
00:32:57over the years, especially my colleagues at the U.S. Attorney's Office and in the Maine
00:33:00Judicial Branch.
00:33:03And finally, I wish to express my gratitude for the entire Maine court family, including
00:33:07my excellent law clerks, Alexa and Kim, and the members of the clerk's office, who work
00:33:11so hard every day for the people of Maine.
00:33:15It is a privilege to serve with all of them.
00:33:18Thank you again for the opportunity to be here, and I welcome the committee's questions.
00:33:22Thank you.
00:33:23And the members are going to have five minutes, but I'll try to be a little tolerant on that,
00:33:26given the number of folks who are here.
00:33:28Mr. Chairman, would you consider a second round?
00:33:33Not yet.
00:33:34Let's see how we do.
00:33:35So I'll start.
00:33:37Ms. Campbell, you graduated from college and joined the Peace Corps, where you served for
00:33:42three years as a volunteer in Ecuador.
00:33:45That's a wonderful experience, I'm sure.
00:33:47Can you just describe to us, A, how you made the decision to join the Peace Corps, and
00:33:52B, what that has done to affect you in your day-to-day work now?
00:34:01Senator, thank you for the opportunity to talk about a really wonderful experience in
00:34:07my life, serving as a Peace Corps volunteer.
00:34:11I always knew that I wanted to go to law school.
00:34:15I thought that I didn't want to go straight through to law school, I wanted to take some
00:34:19time off, and that was an opportunity that seemed interesting to me.
00:34:29On the backside now, I can tell you that it was an experience that had an incredible impact
00:34:34on my life, living in a place and seeing firsthand how lucky I am to live in a country and practice
00:34:45law in a country where we have a functioning judiciary and a constitutional system, something
00:34:52that we are so lucky to have that others do not have.
00:34:55A lot of your work has been complex litigation at the appellate level.
00:34:59Can you talk about that and how that's going to inform you, should you be confirmed to
00:35:04serve in this position?
00:35:07Senator, I have had a pretty broad range of appellate experience, mostly at the Sixth
00:35:14Circuit, but in the other federal circuits, some of the other federal circuits as well.
00:35:19I am largely an ERISA practitioner, and I often appear before panels, not a lot of people
00:35:28practice ERISA, it's a niche area, and have the experience of really engaging in productive
00:35:37debate and back and forth with the panels, and certainly that has informed my idea of
00:35:45how I would be if I were fortunate enough to be confirmed, civility and engagement with
00:35:51the litigants before me.
00:35:53Thank you.
00:35:54And Judge Lopez, as an assistant U.S. attorney in Maine for over a decade, you prosecuted
00:35:59a range of crimes, and some of the ones are the horrible crimes of sex trafficking and
00:36:07sexual exploitation of children.
00:36:10Could you explain to the committee how it was you were drawn to that work and what you
00:36:13learned from it?
00:36:17Thank you, Senator, for that question and for the opportunity to speak about something
00:36:22that I'm truly passionate about.
00:36:24I did have the privilege to serve my community as an assistant United States attorney for
00:36:29more than a decade, and when given the opportunity to serve as the human trafficking coordinator
00:36:34for the office, I jumped at that opportunity.
00:36:37I became a prosecutor in part because I did want to help protect the community, and those
00:36:44who are victimized by sex traffickers are some of the most vulnerable in our community,
00:36:50young women and children who are exploited and forced into commercial sexual activity.
00:36:57In that role, I worked with an extraordinary team, including some of the most dedicated
00:37:03and talented law enforcement agents one could ever meet, and together we were able to hold
00:37:10to account those who do exploit the most vulnerable among us.
00:37:14It's work that I'm very proud of.
00:37:18One of the last things I did, in fact, before I left the U.S. Attorney's Office was co-author
00:37:22an article for federal prosecutors nationwide on how to build a successful human trafficking
00:37:28practice, and my hope is that that will serve as a useful guide for others who would like
00:37:32to do that important work.
00:37:34Thank you.
00:37:35And then, so you went from an advocate or prosecutor to serving as a superior judge
00:37:40and now potentially appellate court judge.
00:37:44Tell us about your superior court judge experience and how you see that as making you a better
00:37:50appellate judge.
00:37:52Thank you, Senator.
00:37:53As a member of the Maine Superior Court, I preside over a wide range of civil and criminal
00:37:58matters, including by conducting jury trials.
00:38:01The Maine Superior Court also has jurisdiction over a variety of appeals, including appeals
00:38:06from Maine administrative agencies, and those appeals often present complex statutory and
00:38:12constitutional questions.
00:38:14And so I do believe the work has given me a broad skill set that would be useful if
00:38:20I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed to the First Circuit.
00:38:23As a trial court judge, I'm also acutely aware that the work we judges do impacts people's
00:38:30daily lives, and so if I were fortunate enough to be confirmed as an appellate judge, I would
00:38:34always keep that in mind, that there are real-world consequences to the work that we do.
00:38:39Thank you very much.
00:38:40And I'll now recognize Senator Graham for five minutes.
00:38:43Thank you very much.
00:38:44I would recommend that you reconsider the five-minute deal.
00:38:49We've got two people here.
00:38:51I could object to it, but I didn't, and that's just not the way the committee should work.
00:38:58So I'll do it as quick as I can, but I'm not going to be rushed to the point I can't
00:39:02ask questions for a lifetime appointment, and if I have to round up everybody on our
00:39:06committee and stay here all day, we will.
00:39:10Okay.
00:39:11Ms. Campbell, are you familiar with the Tennessee Immigration and Refugees Rights Coalition?
00:39:18Yes, Senator.
00:39:20You might want to push the button.
00:39:24Did you give them advice regarding their manifesto?
00:39:28Senator—
00:39:29You need to push the button, I'm sorry.
00:39:32I have pushed it.
00:39:33Maybe we'll move closer.
00:39:34I'm sorry.
00:39:35I apologize.
00:39:36Okay.
00:39:37Did you?
00:39:38I have never represented that organization.
00:39:39That wasn't my question.
00:39:40They say the platform would not have been possible without you and others' expertise.
00:39:48Did you advise them?
00:39:49No, Senator.
00:39:50I'm not familiar with the manifesto.
00:39:51You don't even know who they are.
00:39:52Why would they say that?
00:39:54I do know who they are.
00:39:55I'm not—
00:39:56Well, did you help in any way?
00:39:57Did you give them any advice?
00:39:58Did you talk to anybody at this coalition about anything?
00:40:06About any—
00:40:07You're under oath.
00:40:08Senator, yes, I am—
00:40:10This is what they said about you.
00:40:13Without Campbell and others' expertise, this manifesto would not be possible.
00:40:21So what's your answer?
00:40:23I'm not familiar with the manifesto, and so I did not help them.
00:40:26Do you know why they would say that?
00:40:28No, Senator.
00:40:30So they call for Nashville officials to refuse to cooperate with ICE to deport illegal immigrants.
00:40:36Do you agree with that?
00:40:38I do not agree with that position.
00:40:41Did you represent the alphabet Google Workers Union?
00:40:45Yes, Senator.
00:40:46Okay.
00:40:48Are you aware that they called on Google and Amazon to cut their contacts with Israel?
00:40:53I'm not aware of that, Senator.
00:40:55Are you aware that the people you represented accused Israel of apartheid?
00:41:00Senator, I represented them in organizing drives.
00:41:04Did you know what they were saying?
00:41:05No, Senator.
00:41:06You represented them, but you didn't know what they were saying.
00:41:09They called on Google to ban Trump from YouTube so the website can no longer be used for fascist
00:41:14recruitment.
00:41:15Were you familiar with that?
00:41:17No, Senator.
00:41:18Okay.
00:41:19Did you donate money to Ms. Odessa Kelly running for the House?
00:41:28I believe that I did, Senator.
00:41:30I think $1,500.
00:41:32Did you know that four days before your donation, she tweeted that me, Blackburn Cruz, Cotton,
00:41:39and Holly are obviously aligned with the devil?
00:41:43I was not aware of that.
00:41:44I don't have Twitter.
00:41:46Might be.
00:41:47I don't know.
00:41:48Just two months before, she referred to me and 51 other Senators, including Manchin and
00:41:55Sinema, who voted to preserve the filibuster as Jim Crow Senators.
00:42:00Did you know about that?
00:42:02No, Senator.
00:42:03Four days before the nomination, she said that me and Senator Cruz were two of the most
00:42:08immoral people on the earth.
00:42:12Do you know about that?
00:42:15No, Senator.
00:42:16Why did you give her money?
00:42:20Okay.
00:42:22Thank you.
00:42:23Ms. Lopez, is that right?
00:42:27Lopez.
00:42:28Lopez.
00:42:29I'm sorry.
00:42:30Okay.
00:42:31Speaking about sexual abuse of children, you were a judge in State v. Smith.
00:42:36He was sentenced, let's see, he had 12 charges of sexually abusing two minors, one four,
00:42:43the other nine, to a 12-year sentence with six years suspended.
00:42:48Are you familiar with that case?
00:42:49I am, Senator.
00:42:51According to public reporting, and the prosecution asked for 15, is that right?
00:42:57Senator, my recollection is that I imposed the exact sentence that the State asked for
00:43:02in the Smith case.
00:43:03We don't have it that way.
00:43:06According to public reporting, Judge Lemp sentenced a man convicted of 12 charges of
00:43:11unlawful contact with minors.
00:43:14The defendant would rub his fingers in a circular direction in and on the vagina of each child,
00:43:20and he did so repeatedly.
00:43:22According to public records, you said, people are complicated, I have frankly been offered
00:43:29very little insight as to how or why this happened.
00:43:33What I can say is that this is a very tragic situation of a person who has a lot of good
00:43:39in him, having done a very reprehensible thing to two young children, causing extreme
00:43:45damage.
00:43:46What was the lot of good?
00:43:49Senator, in that case, the bulk of the time at sentencing was spent describing the damage
00:43:56that the defendant had done and how reprehensible his conduct was.
00:44:00You gave him, you cut his sentence, you suspended half of the sentence.
00:44:03Is it your testimony that's what the prosecutors asked for?
00:44:07Yes, Senator.
00:44:08I did just review their sentencing memo, and that is my recollection.
00:44:13We'll check and see.
00:44:14If I'm wrong, I apologize.
00:44:17You sprouted over a case where a mother was charged with manslaughter or killing her 14-month-old
00:44:24baby by exposing him to fentanyl, enough in his system to kill four adults.
00:44:30Her house was being used as a fentanyl distribution center.
00:44:36There was enough fentanyl, the whole room was covered in fentanyl.
00:44:41You sentenced the mother to four years in prison because she included the mother acted
00:44:45with criminal negligence, but not recklessly.
00:44:51You don't think it's reckless to expose your child to fentanyl enough to kill four adults
00:45:00and have the house the child lives in to be a distribution center for fentanyl packaging
00:45:05and selling fentanyl?
00:45:07Senator, the sentence I imposed in that case was 10 years.
00:45:10I reviewed a great volume of evidence, and what I concluded is that she had—
00:45:16Four years in prison.
00:45:17Did you suspend it?
00:45:18Senator, it was 10 years under Maine law.
00:45:22For those charges, the only way to impose any supervision conditions upon release is
00:45:27to suspend a period, and it's a required part of the Maine sentencing structure.
00:45:31Did you impose more?
00:45:32What was the maximum sentence?
00:45:35The maximum sentence for manslaughter, Senator, is 30, but it's 0 to 30, and criminal negligence,
00:45:41that was a case of criminal negligence, that's the least culpable type of manslaughter.
00:45:44So if you said you ruled out reckless, would that have imposed—would that have given
00:45:49you more sentencing authority?
00:45:51Senator, that would be a more culpable type of manslaughter.
00:45:55So you believe that it was not reckless for a mother to use the home the baby is in as
00:46:02a crack distribution center, exposing the child to four times enough fentanyl to kill
00:46:07an adult.
00:46:08Four times to kill an adult.
00:46:10Senator, the evidence showed that she was threatened into—
00:46:14Thank you.
00:46:15Thank you, Senator.
00:46:16Thank you.
00:46:17Chair recognizes Senator Grassley.
00:46:33Thank you for taking two of my ways.
00:46:37You're welcome.
00:46:39I'll send you a bill.
00:46:43Ms. Campbell, according to the AVVO, I don't know whether that's pronounced, I have a profile,
00:46:51it appears that you served as legal counsel to a group named Workers' Dignity.
00:46:58This group has taken a number of radical leftist positions, for example, Workers' Dignity
00:47:04has advocated for abolition of what they call oppressive systems like police and the military.
00:47:12Do you agree with this position?
00:47:14Do you support the abolition of police and military?
00:47:18Senator, respectfully, I have never represented that organization, and I do not agree with
00:47:24that position.
00:47:25Well then, I'm sorry that our research wasn't as accurate as it ought to be.
00:47:33I'll yield.
00:47:47Ms. Campbell, I'd like to start with you, if we can.
00:47:50According to FEC reports, the largest donation that you've made to a candidate is a $1,500
00:47:57campaign contribution to Odessa Kelly, a candidate from the Tennessee 7th Congressional District.
00:48:04Does that sound right to you?
00:48:06That seems accurate, yes, Senator.
00:48:08Now, look, this candidate, Ms. Kelly, has made some pretty crazy statements.
00:48:16Are you aware of those?
00:48:18Senator, I suspect that some of the statements you're going to ask me about were after her
00:48:24candidacy, and no, I have not.
00:48:26I don't follow her on social media.
00:48:28I don't have Twitter, so.
00:48:30All right, well, you don't have Twitter, but look, she made some really awful statements,
00:48:38including the following tweet just four days before, not after, not after she was a candidate,
00:48:44not before she was a candidate, while she was a candidate, and just four days before
00:48:49you contributed to your campaign.
00:48:51Here's what it says.
00:48:52Like Cory Booker said, hashtag Katonji Brown Jackson, God has got you 100%, because Blackburn,
00:49:01Cruz, Cotton, Graham, Hawley are obviously aligned with the devil.
00:49:05Apparently I'm not.
00:49:07Be great.
00:49:08Be great, black woman, be great.
00:49:10The hate is real.
00:49:11The racism is apparent.
00:49:12The disrespect is on another level.
00:49:15Now, this tweet, which is a public statement, attacks some members of this committee, a
00:49:22lot of members of this committee, as being quote unquote aligned with the devil.
00:49:27What does that mean?
00:49:31I mean, do you agree with Edosa Kelly, that members of this committee, the members that
00:49:37are mentioned in this tweet, who happened to have opposed Justice Jackson's nomination,
00:49:45do you agree that that means that they're racist, that they're the devil?
00:49:50Would the same apply to those senators who criticize Justice Clarence Thomas, or to those
00:49:57who voted against his confirmation when he came through this committee?
00:50:02Senator, I am not familiar with those statements, and I do not support them.
00:50:08Okay.
00:50:09I understand that, and I understand that you're not on Twitter, but this is a candidate that
00:50:13you donated to.
00:50:14Now, I'm willing to assume that these are not, that's not the only crazy statement she's
00:50:19made, and in fact, it's certainly not.
00:50:23On January 11th, 2022, only a few months before you contributed to Odessa Kelly, she tweeted
00:50:31quote, let me make this simple.
00:50:3341 million people in the U.S. and the USAID as AA slash BLK, and their ability to have
00:50:41fair representation is being decided by 52 white people in the Senate, including Tim Scott.
00:50:4948 Republicans plus two Ds.
00:50:51That's insane.
00:50:53Now, I don't know what that means by white people, including Tim Scott.
00:50:58I think Tim Scott would probably take exception to that.
00:51:01How is this tweet calling out our black colleague, Senator Tim Scott, how is calling him white
00:51:11not racist?
00:51:16Senator, again, I'm not familiar with that statement.
00:51:19I have no affiliation with that statement.
00:51:22I don't know what some of the acronyms in that statement.
00:51:24Do you share those views?
00:51:25Do you share those views?
00:51:26No, Senator, I do not.
00:51:27All right.
00:51:28Now, according to your AVO profile, you've been legal advisor to an organization called
00:51:33Workers' Dignity from 2013 to the present.
00:51:36Is that correct?
00:51:37Senator, I have never represented Workers' Dignity.
00:51:40A long time ago, I was on a legal advisory board to help them.
00:51:44So you have been a legal advisor.
00:51:46You have been a legal advisor to the.
00:51:48How come you didn't tell me that?
00:51:50I apologize, Senator.
00:51:51I have never represented Workers' Dignity.
00:51:53I was on an advisory board about 15 years ago when they were starting.
00:51:58Okay.
00:51:59And when did your work for Workers' Dignity end?
00:52:03I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
00:52:05You talk about when, that it was a long time ago.
00:52:07When did it end?
00:52:08When did your work for them as a legal advisor end?
00:52:14Senator, I would guess in about 2012 or 13.
00:52:19All right.
00:52:20Now, according to your AVO profile, on June 12th, according to that profile, you authored
00:52:27an endorsement for an attorney, an attorney named Raquel Lee Bellamy on June 12th.
00:52:33So at the least, you should have been aware that your AVO profile listed that you are
00:52:39currently a legal advisor to Workers' Dignity.
00:52:43Were you aware of this?
00:52:44I was not, Senator.
00:52:46Okay.
00:52:47You were not aware of the fact that even though June 12th, now June 12th, that's just a week
00:52:52ago yesterday.
00:52:56Tell me what I'm missing here.
00:52:59Because you authored an endorsement for an attorney named Raquel Lee Bellamy on June
00:53:0412th.
00:53:05So were you not aware that your AVO resume listed that you are currently a legal advisor
00:53:14to Workers' Dignity?
00:53:16Senator, I believe it's been more than a decade since I looked at my AVO profile.
00:53:24And so I was not aware that it said that.
00:53:26More than a decade or more than a week?
00:53:28Which one?
00:53:29I have, yeah, I have not looked at it.
00:53:31Are you suggesting June 12th of this year?
00:53:35Yes.
00:53:36Yes.
00:53:37No, that is incorrect, Senator.
00:53:39Okay, but you can't tell us when it ended.
00:53:41You haven't told us really when it began or when it ended.
00:53:43A minute ago, you didn't acknowledge to Mr. Grassley what was going on, so I'm a little
00:53:48confused.
00:53:49See, I'm about to be gaveled out.
00:53:50I'm out of time.
00:53:51But this raises some questions.
00:53:52It also raises some questions.
00:53:54Your largest political campaign donation went to someone who has made blatantly racist comments
00:54:01and really wildly inappropriate comments about almost every member of this committee, and
00:54:05I find that troubling.
00:54:08Anthony?
00:54:09Senator Whitehouse?
00:54:12Thanks.
00:54:14Can I, first of all, welcome.
00:54:17Glad you're here.
00:54:19Wish you well.
00:54:21This is a bit of an ordeal that you have to go through as part of the process.
00:54:27Let me ask you a little bit about juries, if I may.
00:54:33Because I think we've had a concerted assault on the jury process by the Supreme Court across
00:54:43a whole variety of ways that has the effect of helping to immunize particularly big corporations
00:54:56from accountability to juries.
00:55:00If you're a big corporation and you can come into a president's office, to the Oval Office
00:55:05of a president who you helped get elected, you have very considerable clout to have your
00:55:12way.
00:55:14And if you can come here to Congress to a party that takes gobs of your dark money into
00:55:20its super PACs, you have very significant clout to have your way.
00:55:27But when you show up in a courtroom in front of a jury who it would be a criminal act to
00:55:34try to tamper with, it's a whole different battlefield in which you don't have those
00:55:43massive advantages of influence from money that you've spent.
00:55:51And going all the way back to the very founding and even before, people described the jury
00:55:59as an essential part of the governance process of our country.
00:56:05And the interference with trial by jury by the Crown was one of the causes of the revolution.
00:56:13So it's a pretty big deal, I think, that we have a healthy jury system.
00:56:20And we've seen some pretty impressive results recently from, you know, honest courtrooms
00:56:27that have stood up against the tide of bullying and propaganda that has consumed our nation.
00:56:32So I'd like to have each of you take a moment and describe your thoughts about the importance
00:56:39of the jury process and how you view it, not just as a fact-finding appendage of the trial court,
00:56:52but as an institution in the Constitution in its own right.
00:56:58Ms. Campbell, why don't you go first, and then we'll turn to Judge Lipas.
00:57:06Senator, I share your beliefs about the importance of the jury system in our judiciary.
00:57:16The right to a jury is enshrined in both the Sixth and Seventh Amendments in the criminal and civil side.
00:57:24I believe that juries are underutilized in civil litigation.
00:57:30Thank you.
00:57:35Thank you, Senator.
00:57:37I agree with you that the right to a jury trial is a fundamental component of our democracy.
00:57:43One of the best parts of my current job as a trial court judge is working with juries.
00:57:49I love jury selection, and I love presiding over jury trials.
00:57:52And at the end of every jury trial, I do go back and speak with jurors.
00:57:57And what they tell me uniformly is that they found that it was an inspiring process,
00:58:01that they enjoyed being able to come into the justice system and see how it really works,
00:58:06and that they always take their oath to render a fair and impartial verdict very seriously.
00:58:13And so I agree with you.
00:58:14It's a critical component of what we do in the justice system.
00:58:18Well, thank you.
00:58:19In my role as U.S. Attorney and as State Attorney General, I did the same thing.
00:58:25I made it a practice to speak with juries as they were after they had delivered their verdict,
00:58:34and also grand juries after they had concluded their term of service.
00:58:41And even where the substance of what they'd had to listen to was pretty horrifying,
00:58:47which it sometimes was in, you know, child predator cases and so forth,
00:58:54as you said, they've inevitably felt inspired by the opportunity to serve,
00:58:58even in a kind of dingy jury room, even with snacks out of a coin machine,
00:59:03even with, you know, some of the ways in which we don't make them feel important.
00:59:07So I just hope you'll keep that spirit with you in the decisions that you make.
00:59:11It is founded bang on in the Constitution
00:59:14and also in the key documents that surrounded the revolutionary era.
00:59:20So thanks very much, and I will yield back to Chairman.
00:59:25Thank you, Senator Whitehouse.
00:59:26Senator Cruz.
00:59:28Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:59:30Judge Lopez, I'm going to quickly note there's a reason the Democrats have scheduled you on this panel,
00:59:35because you have a long pattern of sentencing criminal defendants to egregiously light sentences,
00:59:41including one child molester who molested a 4-year-old and 9-year-old,
00:59:45and you sentenced him to only six years in prison,
00:59:47including, as we heard before, one woman who was responsible for killing her 1-year-old son
00:59:57who was coated in fentanyl.
00:59:59His pajamas were coated in fentanyl.
01:00:01His sheets were coated in fentanyl.
01:00:03You could have sentenced her to 30 years.
01:00:05You sentenced her to only four years.
01:00:07It's an egregious pattern, but the reason you're put on this panel
01:00:10is the Democrats know that most Republicans will not have time to question you about that terrible record
01:00:15because your colleague on this panel, her record is even worse.
01:00:19Ms. Campbell, I will say I have seen some astonishing nominees from this administration,
01:00:25but I have to admit your record takes the cake.
01:00:30A judge should not be a political activist.
01:00:34Your record demonstrates to me a long history of being a political activist, but not just an activist,
01:00:41an activist who affiliates with extreme and radical organizations.
01:00:46Now, when Senator Grassley asked you about the Workers' Dignity Organization,
01:00:53you gave, I think, a deliberately misleading answer.
01:00:56You said you did not represent them,
01:00:58and that convinced Senator Grassley not to continue on that line of questioning.
01:01:02You have been a legal advisor to that organization since 2013.
01:01:07That is what you have publicly printed on your AVO biography.
01:01:13It is what has been described in the Tennessee Bar Association when you were nominated.
01:01:19It explicitly says she served as a legal advisor for local workers' rights, nonprofit workers' dignity.
01:01:24Now, why is it you're distancing yourself from them?
01:01:27The reason is because they are utterly radical.
01:01:30If you look at this group that you've served as the legal advisor for for over a decade,
01:01:36this is an openly Marxist organization.
01:01:39This is a communist organization.
01:01:41Now, those words are not said lightly, according to their own characterization of their views.
01:01:47This group says there's no election outcome that improves conditions for workers.
01:01:53The laws of this country have never worked for our people,
01:01:55and now that the system is crumbling, we will continue to stand in community and solidarity with each other.
01:02:00The only way we win in a world we deserve is by building a multiracial working class revolution
01:02:07that can push out white nationalism, violent state racism, and the capitalist class
01:02:12that is desperately clutching to hold control and profits as the people rise up.
01:02:17Why have you spent a decade as a legal advisor to an openly communist and Marxist organization?
01:02:22I don't think your microphone's on.
01:02:29I apologize, Senator.
01:02:32If I could briefly clarify, more than a decade ago, probably for the course of two or three years,
01:02:40I served on an advisory board that helped this, at the time,
01:02:45was supposed to be a nonprofit workers' rights organization, get set up and get started.
01:02:50Did you know they were a communist organization?
01:02:52Senator, at that time, they did not express these kinds of views.
01:02:57It was an organization...
01:02:58So this is new? This wasn't the case then?
01:03:00Yes, and I have not been affiliated with them in more than a decade.
01:03:05You're aware that your current profile that you have up, your legal bio, says you are right now an advisor to them?
01:03:10I apologize for any confusion about that.
01:03:13So your testimony under oath, and that's all right, the facts will come out,
01:03:17but your testimony, I want to make it explicit.
01:03:19Your testimony under oath is that you have done absolutely nothing and had zero contact with them for how long?
01:03:25I have not served on their advisory board for...
01:03:31You've done absolutely nothing and had zero contact with them for how long?
01:03:35Please answer the question.
01:03:36Many, many years.
01:03:37How many?
01:03:38I don't know, sitting here today. It's been many years.
01:03:40Okay, if you look at other statements from this organization, because they are radicals.
01:03:45They are radicals. If you look also, this is the same group in 2020.
01:03:50They called for abolishing ICE, abolishing prisons and detention centers, and abolishing the police.
01:03:55Why did you volunteer for a communist organization that calls for abolishing ICE and abolishing the police?
01:04:03Senator, I have never seen these comments before.
01:04:06You didn't know who you were volunteering for?
01:04:08I was not a volunteer for them at that time.
01:04:10You were a legal advisor. Were you paid?
01:04:11No, I was not.
01:04:12Then you were a volunteer.
01:04:13If you volunteered to be a legal advisor, you were a volunteer.
01:04:16Why did you volunteer? Do you support abolishing ICE?
01:04:19Senator, at this time, I had...
01:04:21Do you support abolishing ICE?
01:04:22I do not, Senator.
01:04:23Well, it's amazing because a minute ago, you also told Senator Graham that the Tennessee Immigrant and Refugee Rights Coalition
01:04:30that has a manifesto calling for abolishing ICE, you said you had nothing to do with it.
01:04:35Which is fairly astonishing because on page three of their manifesto, they thank you by name for what they say.
01:04:43We would like to thank the following individuals and organizations for their thoughtful feedback and input.
01:04:48This platform would not have been possible without their expertise.
01:04:51Are they lying?
01:04:54Senator, I'm not familiar with that manifesto.
01:04:57Are they lying?
01:04:59Did you provide any assistance?
01:05:01Did you give feedback and input, which is what they say on the cover page?
01:05:06Senator, I didn't even know that existed, and so, no, I did not provide input on it.
01:05:11And why...
01:05:12You know, when Senator Graham asked why you gave money to this radical candidate who has said 52 senators are Jim Crow senators
01:05:21and said multiple of us are siding with the devil, you laughed and thought that was funny.
01:05:26But Senator Graham asked you a question, look, that candidate was as radical as I've ever seen.
01:05:32And when Senator Graham asked why you gave money to that candidate, you just smiled and didn't answer.
01:05:37So why did you give money to a radical candidate who believes multiple members of the Senate are siding with the devil?
01:05:47Senator...
01:05:48Actually, Senator Whitehouse, you weren't here before, but there was an exchange with the chairman where Senator Kennedy asked for longer periods
01:05:53because you have two circuit justices, and the chairman said he was going to give additional time.
01:05:57So the comment they want to be gaveled as part of the show is not accurate, and Senator Welch said he was going to give additional time.
01:06:04In fact, he said at the beginning he was going to give six minutes.
01:06:06So, my question, you did not answer Senator Graham.
01:06:09Mr. Chairman, how much time has expired?
01:06:11How much time has expired? I just want to clarify, I just walked in.
01:06:13Why did you give money...
01:06:14Six minutes, because it seems like more than six has passed.
01:06:18Why did you give money to this radical...
01:06:21Put up the devil one, too.
01:06:22Why did you give money to this radical candidate? $1,500, a lot of money.
01:06:31That's a question.
01:06:32Senator, again, I'm not familiar with these comments.
01:06:35Why did you give money to this radical candidate?
01:06:39Could you let her answer the question, please?
01:06:44I'm not familiar with these comments, and I...
01:06:46Why did you give money to her? That's the question.
01:06:51You're not going to answer?
01:06:52You're refusing to answer why you gave money to her.
01:06:54Senator, I'm not familiar with these comments.
01:06:56That's not an answer.
01:06:57My answer is, why did you? What is the affirmative reason?
01:07:00You gave $1,500.
01:07:02There was something you saw in her that you said, this needs $1,500.
01:07:06Why? Please answer that question.
01:07:08Senator, your time has expired.
01:07:09Would you please ask the witness to answer the question?
01:07:11She's refusing to answer it.
01:07:13It's indefensible, but answer.
01:07:15Was there any reason?
01:07:16Or do you just give $1,500 to anyone?
01:07:18Senator, your time has expired.
01:07:20I would like her to answer the question.
01:07:22And you said she could answer the question.
01:07:24She has refused to do so multiple times.
01:07:26Please answer the question, Ms. Campbell.
01:07:27She answered the question.
01:07:28No, she did not. She said she didn't know those comments.
01:07:30That's not why she gave the money.
01:07:32Senator...
01:07:33Can I ask you why she gave the money?
01:07:34No.
01:07:35You don't know, because she hasn't answered.
01:07:37Are you going to answer, Ms. Campbell, or does this committee not deserve to know why you gave money to a radical who says we are aligned?
01:07:43Mr. Chairman, I have a lot of other senators who have busy days.
01:07:46Can we get on with the next person?
01:07:48You don't want an answer to the question either, Senator Booker?
01:07:50I just want to say for the record...
01:07:51Are you able to answer the question, Ms. Campbell, or do you believe this committee doesn't deserve an answer to that question?
01:07:55Mr. Chairman, who has the floor?
01:07:57You're silent.
01:07:58You're just refusing to answer.
01:07:59Who's next?
01:08:00The senator's time has expired.
01:08:02If the senator doesn't like the answer...
01:08:04It's not an answer.
01:08:05She sat there silently and has not spoken.
01:08:07That is by definition not an answer.
01:08:09Senator from Connecticut.
01:08:14Thank you.
01:08:15Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
01:08:17You've been asked about your sentencing, Judge Lipez.
01:08:22Could you talk a little bit about your philosophy of sentencing?
01:08:26Because I think it's important for the committee to hear more fully how you approach what I think is one of the most important responsibilities of a judge.
01:08:36Thank you, Senator, for that question.
01:08:39I practice extensively as a federal prosecutor, so I'm quite familiar with the federal sentencing system.
01:08:46The state of Maine sentencing system that I now work under is quite different.
01:08:51We don't have sentencing guidelines.
01:08:53Instead, in the state of Maine, we have a three-part methodology that we are required by statute to follow.
01:09:00In every case, I look carefully at the factual record.
01:09:04I make factual findings as dictated by the evidence before me, and then I follow the three-part sentencing methodology.
01:09:13The third part of that methodology requires the court to consider whether to suspend a portion of the sentence so that the defendant can be on probation conditions.
01:09:23The Maine system does not have supervised release for most crimes the way that the federal system does,
01:09:28and so the only way to place an offender on probation conditions after release and to supervise them in the community is to suspend a portion of the sentence,
01:09:37and that happens, in my experience, in the majority of Maine cases.
01:09:42In every case, I listen carefully to the parties, to the victims, if it's a crime involving victims.
01:09:48In many cases, I have imposed sentences that the state has asked for,
01:09:54and I view each case on its own and impose a sentence that is dictated by the evidence and the statutory factors.
01:10:03And I think that's important.
01:10:05You try to individualize a sentence.
01:10:08I've been a prosecutor, U.S. attorney, and attorney general,
01:10:14and sentencing has, in part, justifiably, a punishment aspect.
01:10:22Society demands that there be some suffering on the part of people who commit a crime.
01:10:29That's, in part, why we deprive them of their freedom.
01:10:33But it also is supposed to have some corrective effect on the individual.
01:10:41It used to be called rehabilitative.
01:10:44And unfortunately, all too often, our prisons fail to provide either job skills or education or health care in many different ways.
01:10:56As you look at an individual, is the factual background that you consider
01:11:05partly whether that person is going to commit another crime or become a productive member of society?
01:11:13Senator, that's something I'm required to consider under the statutory factors set forth by Maine law,
01:11:19the individual history and characteristics of the defendant, including any criminal history,
01:11:24any past failures on probation, and the prospects for rehabilitation,
01:11:30and then, of course, the nature and circumstances of the offense.
01:11:32And so in each case, I consider all of those factors as I'm required to by Maine law.
01:11:37Thank you.
01:11:38I really appreciate that very thoughtful answer to a question that I think becomes embroiled in the politics of the moment
01:11:46but really faces this committee in the way that we make laws and faces judges literally every day in courtrooms all around the country,
01:11:56in state courts as well as federal courts.
01:12:00I really appreciate both of your service to our country.
01:12:05Part of your service is appearing before this committee, not pleasant, not fair.
01:12:15Welcome to our world.
01:12:18And I want to thank you and commend you for being here to participate in the very constructive and thoughtful way that you have done.
01:12:29I would invite either of you, feel no pressure to do so,
01:12:34to add any comments that perhaps you haven't been able to conclude because you've been interrupted.
01:12:42If you want to say something in addition to explain, provide further answers, please use the balance of my time to do so.
01:12:54Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:12:56Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
01:12:58Senator Kennedy.
01:13:00Thank you.
01:13:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:13:08Ms. Campbell, you lied to Senator Grassley, didn't you?
01:13:18No, Senator.
01:13:20You told Senator Grassley that you've never represented workers' dignity, didn't you?
01:13:27That is correct, Senator.
01:13:29That's not true, is it?
01:13:31Senator, I have never represented that organization.
01:13:36Yes, ma'am.
01:13:39That's not true, is it?
01:13:43Senator, it is true.
01:13:44I served for a period of two or three years, more than a decade ago, on an advisory board to help them set up as a nonprofit.
01:13:52In fact, you were so supportive of workers' dignity that not only did you represent them, you didn't charge them a fee.
01:14:00Isn't that correct?
01:14:04Senator, when I was on their advisory board more than a decade ago, I did volunteer my time.
01:14:10Right.
01:14:11You know what this is?
01:14:12Do you recognize that picture?
01:14:15No, Senator.
01:14:16This is from workers' dignity's website.
01:14:22There you are, right here.
01:14:25It's got your name.
01:14:31Wow.
01:14:36Judge Lopez, you have more sympathy for the criminal than the victim, don't you?
01:14:51Senator, I worked on behalf of victims of crime zealously as a prosecutor.
01:14:58As a judge, I listen carefully to understand impact on victims, and I have always take that into account.
01:15:08Do you know Micah Smith?
01:15:11Michael Smith, Senator?
01:15:12Micah, M-I-C-H.
01:15:15I don't believe I know a Micah Smith, Senator, no.
01:15:18Okay.
01:15:19I bet the victims of Micah Smith remember Micah Smith, if you don't.
01:15:25Senator, there was a defendant I sentenced named Michael Smith.
01:15:31Mr. Smith molested a four-year-old girl, didn't he?
01:15:36Senator, he was convicted after trial of unlawful sexual contact under Maine law.
01:15:40That's a nice way of putting it.
01:15:43That was a charge, Senator.
01:15:44Right.
01:15:46Mr. Smith molested a nine-year-old girl, didn't he?
01:15:51Senator, again, he was convicted of unlawful sexual contact against two children.
01:15:57In that case, I did impose the sentence the state requested.
01:16:00At oral argument, this is how Mr. Smith's conduct was described.
01:16:09Quote, you heard this testimony, all of the abuse is done in the same fashion.
01:16:18Smith would rub his fingers in a circular motion on the vagina of each child, and he did so repeatedly.
01:16:34Now, where I come from, we call that sexual abuse.
01:16:37You can pretty it up all you want to, Judge.
01:16:42This is what you said at Mr. Micah's sentencing.
01:16:48These are your words, not mine.
01:16:51What I can say, you said, is that this is a very tragic situation of a person who has a lot of good in him, a lot of good in him,
01:17:06having done a very reprehensible thing to two young children causing extreme damage.
01:17:14Did I read that correctly?
01:17:17Senator, in that case, I imposed the sentence the state requested.
01:17:21Did I read your quotation correctly?
01:17:25Senator, that, I think, is a portion of what I said at sentencing.
01:17:30My focus was on –
01:17:31But the words I read, are they correct?
01:17:35That's what was reported in the paper, Senator.
01:17:37I have not seen a transcript of the sentencing.
01:17:40I bet the victims remember, Judge.
01:17:42You might have forgotten, just like you forgot his name.
01:17:46But I bet the victims remember.
01:17:49And then you handed down a sentence.
01:17:52You gave Mr. Smith 12 years, but you suspended six of them, didn't you?
01:18:00Senator, that was at the recommendation of the state, because they –
01:18:03But it was your ruling.
01:18:05Is that an accurate statement of your ruling?
01:18:09Senator, I accepted the state's recommendation that six years should be suspended
01:18:13so that Mr. Smith would be required to participate in sex offender treatment.
01:18:17I appreciate the lengthy explanation, but I think it's a pretty simple question.
01:18:22That was your sentence, right?
01:18:25Yes, I imposed the sentence the state requested in that case.
01:18:28Are you familiar with the Bangor Daily News?
01:18:31I am the Bangor Daily News senator.
01:18:33Right.
01:18:34Did you read the article they wrote, quote,
01:18:36light sentences send a message that domestic violence does not matter, end quote?
01:18:43Do you remember that article?
01:18:45I have read it, Senator.
01:18:46I believe it mischaracterizes the case that is described.
01:18:49That article was about you, wasn't it?
01:18:52My recollection, Senator, is that it described several different cases.
01:18:57The case that I worked on that was described there,
01:19:00the defendant in that case was acquitted by a jury of the most serious conduct,
01:19:04and that was not reflected in that article.
01:19:06So the newspaper got it wrong?
01:19:08That was an op-ed that I believe misunderstood what happened,
01:19:11which is the jury acquitted the defendant of the most serious conduct that he was charged with.
01:19:15I was not the fact finder in that case,
01:19:17and so at sentencing I was bound by the jury's verdict.
01:19:20Let me ask you, I'm going to run out of time here.
01:19:23I wish I had more time for you, Ms. Campbell,
01:19:25but I've seen a lot of activist judges,
01:19:34and I'm not saying you're the most activist,
01:19:37but the list you're on, it sure doesn't take long to call the roll.
01:19:40Let me finish with this question.
01:19:43I'm going to end as I began, Judge Lopez.
01:19:48You have more sympathy for criminals than victims, don't you?
01:19:54Senator, I have the support of the Maine Coalition to End Domestic Violence
01:19:59and the Maine Coalition Against Sexual Assault.
01:20:01I believe that support is a reflection of the work I did as a prosecutor
01:20:04as well as the care I take with cases involving victims as a judge.
01:20:09You're embarrassed to answer my question, aren't you?
01:20:15Thank you to the nominees for being here.
01:20:17I'm sorry that I was unable to preside but in the capable hands of my colleague, Peter Welch.
01:20:24Judge Lopez, would you like to complete that sentence you were starting about,
01:20:29the support you have from prosecutors as well as defenders?
01:20:33Certainly, Senator, thank you.
01:20:35What I was indicating is that I have broad support,
01:20:38including from several victims' organizations,
01:20:41the Maine Coalition to End Domestic Violence,
01:20:44which represents all of the domestic violence service organizations in the state of Maine,
01:20:49as well as the support of the Maine Coalition Against Sexual Assault,
01:20:52which represents the sexual assault organizations in Maine,
01:20:56as well as support from prosecutors, law enforcement, and I believe that is reflective
01:21:02both of the work I did as a prosecutor on behalf of crime victims
01:21:06and the care that I take with victims in my role as a judge.
01:21:11And you presided over approximately 21 trials, civil misdemeanor and felony matters?
01:21:16Yes, Senator.
01:21:18Seventy percent were jury trials and 30 percent were bench trials.
01:21:22And I take it that the endorsements which you received reflect on your entire career,
01:21:29not on any one specific case.
01:21:31That's correct, Senator.
01:21:32That's the difference between the real world and this committee.
01:21:36If you have said something in high school in this committee, be prepared to defend it.
01:21:43And it may define your life for some members of the committee, not for me.
01:21:48I think there's much more to life than one ruling or one observation in an article
01:21:54or whether you were an advisory member of some committee.
01:21:58Ms. Campbell, that's the situation you face, is it not, with this organization
01:22:03that's been the subject of questioning today.
01:22:07Could you explain your relationship with that organization?
01:22:12Thank you, Senator.
01:22:16Approximately 15 years ago, 10 to 15 years ago, I served for a couple of years,
01:22:23two or three years, on an advisory board for an organization
01:22:30that was at that time getting off the ground.
01:22:32And I understood it to be a nonprofit group that would help low-wage workers
01:22:38by providing them with information about their legal rights.
01:22:43And that was something that I supported and volunteered my time for.
01:22:48In recent years, I have not had any involvement with that group
01:22:52because I believe that they have strayed into the political sphere
01:22:57rather than staying with their original mission to support workers.
01:23:00And so I'm not involved with them anymore, Senator.
01:23:05Did you represent them as a lawyer?
01:23:07No, Senator.
01:23:09So though your photo may appear at their website,
01:23:11that does not suggest that you misled this committee?
01:23:15Correct, Senator.
01:23:16I'm open in that I served on an advisory board early on in my career.
01:23:23I wonder how many of us as United States Senators,
01:23:25where our parties every four years issue a platform taking positions on issues,
01:23:31would like to be held accountable for every aspect of those platforms
01:23:34because we're members of the party.
01:23:37It gets right down to it, if I don't write it and if I don't say it
01:23:40and I don't subscribe to it, I shouldn't be held accountable for it, period.
01:23:44And yet, there seems to be a double standard
01:23:46when it comes to nominees before this committee.
01:23:48If you were part of an organization which at any point put out a press release
01:23:53you're being asked to defend it.
01:23:55It's okay to be asked, but I think it reaches a point
01:23:58where it's unreasonable to subscribe every single thought
01:24:01uttered by some other person as your own.
01:24:04Each of us have a right to stand up and say what we truly believe in.
01:24:08Tell me, Ms. Campbell, about your experience
01:24:10when it comes to serving in court as a lawyer
01:24:14and the kind of support that you have.
01:24:19Thank you, Senator.
01:24:21I largely have a plaintiff's side practice,
01:24:24and it has been my privilege to represent folks from across the state of Tennessee,
01:24:31a lot of low-wage workers, federal benefit trust funds
01:24:36and fiduciaries of those funds who are helping to protect pensions for workers.
01:24:43I have represented victims of crimes.
01:24:45Recently, I have represented district attorneys general
01:24:49across the state of Tennessee in civil litigation,
01:24:52and some of my clients have provided letters to this committee as well.
01:24:56Do you have the support of prosecutors as well as Defense Bar?
01:24:59Yes, Senator.
01:25:00Those are a matter of record for those who want to read them?
01:25:03Yes, Senator.
01:25:05Mr. Chairman, I yield.
01:25:07Thank you. Senator Blackburn.
01:25:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:25:12Judge Lopez, I appreciate your work on human trafficking.
01:25:16I was so disappointed looking at your sentencing record
01:25:21that you would go light on those criminals.
01:25:25Those of us who work in the human trafficking, child abuse areas,
01:25:29it is so disheartening to see judges who practice leniency on these criminals.
01:25:38Ms. Campbell, it's nice to meet you.
01:25:41You and I have never met.
01:25:43Senator Welch, the White House said we had interviewed her.
01:25:48We've never met, and no, we did not interview her.
01:25:51So we may want to correct the White House record on that.
01:25:56Ms. Campbell, have you ever been a judge?
01:25:59No, Senator.
01:26:01Do you mind using your microphone?
01:26:06So you have no experience.
01:26:10But no experience as a judge.
01:26:13Senator, I have argued numerous times before the court.
01:26:16Okay, but you have no experience as a judge.
01:26:19I want to go back to the Tennessee Bar Association.
01:26:24When your nomination was announced, and by the way,
01:26:28this was a deal that was worked out before the vacancy was ever announced.
01:26:34We heard about it from plenty of people in Nashville,
01:26:38that this is exactly what was going to happen, that the deal was done.
01:26:43And I'm sure you're probably aware of that.
01:26:45Weren't you aware of that?
01:26:47Senator, I was not.
01:26:49Okay, the Bar Association does note your work for workers' dignity.
01:26:54Did you ask them to correct that since you said you never worked for them?
01:26:59I have not asked them to correct that.
01:27:01Why did you not?
01:27:02I wasn't aware that it said that.
01:27:04Okay, so the TBA Law Blog is sent out, and you read it.
01:27:11I assume you read it.
01:27:13And did you note the inaccuracy?
01:27:16And did you ask them to correct it?
01:27:18Did they issue a correction?
01:27:22Please respond.
01:27:23Senator, I do not recall reading that blog.
01:27:26You don't recall reading it.
01:27:28This deal was so cooked that she didn't even look at what the TBA Law Blog had to say
01:27:34when the nomination was announced.
01:27:36Let's go to this support for Odessa Kelly.
01:27:41And we've discussed that several times today.
01:27:44You've never been able to say why you chose to support her.
01:27:50And you were tagged in a Facebook post with her.
01:27:53So there is a reason you chose to make your largest political contribution ever to Odessa Kelly.
01:28:02And we have a list of tweets, Mr. Chairman,
01:28:08things that Odessa Kelly has said about this committee, positions that she has taken.
01:28:15So why would you choose to support Odessa Kelly when you knew what her opinions were?
01:28:26Because when people say things like that, it's not only in a tweet.
01:28:30We've got it on Facebook.
01:28:32We have it in other instances.
01:28:34So would you like to provide an answer on that?
01:28:38Senator Cruz asked you about that, and you never could say why you supported her.
01:28:43Do you align with her politically?
01:28:45Do you agree with her?
01:28:47Do you think that we are aligned with the devil?
01:28:51What would cause you to be right out there with your best political support and contribution for her?
01:29:03Senator, as I said, I'm not familiar with those statements.
01:29:10So you never heard her indicate anything.
01:29:13What did you think you were supporting?
01:29:15What kind of agenda were you supporting when you supported her?
01:29:20Senator, again, I'm not familiar with those particular statements.
01:29:24You have to have – every candidate has a political ideology.
01:29:30Why would you give that support for someone who has made such statements?
01:29:37And let me ask you, go back to the workers' dignity, that work that you've done.
01:29:45Do you agree with them on abolishing law enforcement, abolishing ICE?
01:29:53Senator, I'm not familiar with those statements, but I can categorically say to you that I disagree with those positions.
01:29:59So you would not abolish ICE.
01:30:01Okay, the Tennessee Immigrant and Refugee Rights Coalition, and we have discussed this,
01:30:08and you're saying – I want you to say this for the record –
01:30:12so you are saying that they are lying when they say that you gave them advice and consent and help.
01:30:21Is that correct?
01:30:25Senator, the manifesto that was referenced, I am not familiar with it.
01:30:31So why would they think that they had depended on you for advice, and why would they note this?
01:30:40Did you ask them about it?
01:30:43Did you say, why are you referencing me and I had nothing to do with this?
01:30:49Did you talk to anyone?
01:30:53Senator, until today, I did not know that my name was listed in one of their publications.
01:30:58I had no idea about that.
01:31:00Well, do you agree with them?
01:31:03And I'm pulling this from a Fox 17 news report.
01:31:08TIRRC is calling on Metro Police to develop clear policies
01:31:13and refuse to help ICE carry out civil immigration enforcement in Davidson County.
01:31:20Do you agree with that statement?
01:31:24Senator, I'm not familiar with that statement, and no, I don't agree with it.
01:31:30You don't agree.
01:31:32Thank you.
01:31:34Senator Hawley.
01:31:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:31:37Ms. Campbell, I'm trying to understand your answers to this committee.
01:31:40Let's start with the workers' dignity question, because your truthfulness under oath is surely –
01:31:47I notice my friends across the way now are utterly uninterested.
01:31:51Utterly uninterested in any organization you've been a part of.
01:31:54They're suddenly utterly uninterested in things you wrote in the past.
01:31:57They're utterly uninterested in who you give money to.
01:32:00That wasn't the case just a few years ago, but be that as it may,
01:32:03surely they're interested in your truthfulness.
01:32:05I have now counted, just as I've sat here today, four separate answers by you,
01:32:11all of them conflicting as to what exactly was your relationship with workers' dignity.
01:32:16So let's just get this nailed down.
01:32:18First of all, did you disclose your relationship with workers' dignity to this committee?
01:32:25Don't look at the chairman, look at me.
01:32:27I'm not sure that I included that.
01:32:31I don't remember, Senator.
01:32:33Oh, I think you do.
01:32:34The answer is no, you did not disclose it to this committee.
01:32:38Then you told Senator Grassley, I've never represented that group.
01:32:43Then you told Senator Lee, next, that you had indeed advised them
01:32:50and that you'd advise them as a member of a legal advisory board.
01:32:54You said 10 years ago.
01:32:57Right?
01:32:58Then you told Senator Cruz that, in fact, you told Senator Lee you'd advise them briefly.
01:33:05You told Senator Cruz actually you'd advise them for three years.
01:33:09Then you told Senator Durbin that it wasn't 10 years ago.
01:33:12It was 15 years ago.
01:33:14So what is it exactly?
01:33:17You didn't disclose your association with this radical group to the committee.
01:33:22You're currently listed now.
01:33:24Your own bio lists you as a legal advisor to the workers' dignity group from 2013 to the present.
01:33:31To the present.
01:33:33The Tennessee Bar Association cited your work with this group for your nomination.
01:33:39So what is the story?
01:33:42When did you start working for workers' dignity?
01:33:47Senator, more than a decade ago, for two or three years, I served on a legal advisory committee or board.
01:33:58So you gave them legal advice.
01:34:00We were helping them set up as a nonprofit.
01:34:02So you represented them.
01:34:03So you lied to Senator Grassley earlier when he explicitly asked you, did you do any legal work, and you said no.
01:34:09In fact, you served on a legal advisory board.
01:34:12That's your testimony now.
01:34:15Correct?
01:34:16Senator, I served on this board.
01:34:18On a legal advisory board.
01:34:20Correct?
01:34:21Correct.
01:34:22Okay.
01:34:23So you lied to Senator Grassley here under oath.
01:34:26What else have you lied about?
01:34:32Workers' dignity has condemned Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
01:34:37They have said that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing.
01:34:39Do you agree with that?
01:34:41No, Senator.
01:34:42How can I believe you?
01:34:44You just lied under oath a moment ago to Senator Grassley.
01:34:47You've lied to us up and down on this committee.
01:34:51I mean, this is a serious problem, Ms. Campbell.
01:34:53I have to say, I've never seen a witness, never, in five years in this committee sit here and lie to us and change the story person to person.
01:35:01Why are you doing it?
01:35:03What is it?
01:35:04Why are you afraid to tell the truth about workers' dignity?
01:35:07Why have you lied to this committee?
01:35:08Why didn't you disclose it?
01:35:09Why did you lie to Senator Grassley?
01:35:11Why have you changed your story every time you're asked?
01:35:15Senator, I have not lied to you today.
01:35:17I've tried to represent my participation with this group.
01:35:21What you've done is you've misrepresented your participation with this group.
01:35:24You apologized to Senator Cruz for any confusion.
01:35:26You've created the confusion deliberately.
01:35:30Let's talk about something else that you've created confusion for.
01:35:34The biggest political donation that you've ever made is to Odessa Kelly.
01:35:37This radical candidate who said that members of this committee are Satanists, who endorsed violence.
01:35:45Why did you give money to Odessa Kelly?
01:35:48Over a thousand bucks.
01:35:50I mean, that's not nothing.
01:35:51That may be nothing to you.
01:35:52That's not nothing to most people.
01:35:54Why did you give money, the most money you've ever given, to this person?
01:35:57Senator, Ms. Kelly lives in my neighborhood.
01:36:00She's one of my neighbors.
01:36:02And you agree with her views?
01:36:04No, on those views that you've read, I don't agree with them.
01:36:07Oh, I haven't read any of them.
01:36:08I'm just asking you, do you agree with her views?
01:36:11I mean, you gave her more money than anybody else.
01:36:13Your governor, your state senator, your attorney general, you gave her the most.
01:36:17I do not agree with all of her views, no, Senator.
01:36:21Well, which ones do you agree with?
01:36:26Can you name one?
01:36:29Senator, I know that she is my neighbor.
01:36:31And I'm a neighborly person.
01:36:35Oh, I see.
01:36:36You're a neighborly person.
01:36:37Well, I tell you this.
01:36:40You have represented to this committee that you didn't know what Odessa Kelly said
01:36:44and the outrageous, frankly, outrageous things that she said and did.
01:36:48You said you didn't know anything about workers' dignity.
01:36:50You lied to us about your association with that group.
01:36:52You said you didn't know anything about the Tennessee, what is it,
01:36:55the Tennessee Immigrant Refugee Rights Coalition,
01:36:59who thanks you personally in their introduction.
01:37:01You said you didn't know anything about that.
01:37:03I mean, either all of these people are liars or you are, Ms. Campbell.
01:37:06It's one or the other.
01:37:07It's quite a pattern.
01:37:08Maybe they all are.
01:37:10But given what you've told us under oath today, I think the answer is you are.
01:37:14And for that reason, you are utterly unqualified to sit on the federal bench.
01:37:17Senator, his time has expired.
01:37:20Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
01:37:22And thank you, Judge Lopez.
01:37:24You're free to go.
01:37:25Please give us a moment to reset.
01:37:27I take it we're not going to have a second round?
01:37:31That's correct.
01:37:32We've got a second panel.
01:37:33Senator.
01:37:34I'd like to request a second round for this panel.
01:37:36And the chairman said when you were asked earlier that you'd consider a second round.
01:37:39I did.
01:37:40And we have a second panel.
01:37:42No, you said a second round for this is what you were asked about.
01:37:44That's correct.
01:37:45I was asked about that.
01:37:46I said I'd consider it.
01:37:47I've considered it.
01:37:48We've got a second panel.
01:37:49My view, we've got to move on.
01:37:51Thank you.
01:37:52But I said pretty please.
01:37:54You did.
01:37:55I will grant you that.
01:37:57With sugar on top.
01:37:59You know, that southern charm, it works.
01:38:03Apparently not well enough.
01:38:07I've asked the nominees to take their seats.
01:38:16Would the nominees stand to be sworn in?
01:38:25Do you affirm that the testimony that you are about to give before the committee will be the truth,
01:38:31the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
01:38:33So help you God.
01:38:35You may be seated.
01:38:41And Ms. Henry, you may proceed with your opening statement.
01:38:45Thank you.
01:38:46Thank you, Senator Welch, for chairing this hearing, along with Senator Durbin at this point.
01:38:54I'd also like to thank Ranking Member Graham and the entire committee.
01:38:58I'm grateful to my home state senators, Senator Casey and Senator Fetterman, for their support.
01:39:03And I would like to thank Senator Casey for his incredibly kind words this morning.
01:39:08I'm truly, truly humbled to be here.
01:39:12I'm especially grateful to President Biden for the honor of this nomination.
01:39:16I would like to introduce my family.
01:39:19I would not be here today without their unwavering encouragement and support.
01:39:24We've always been a small and tight-knit group, but we remained even smaller by the loss of my mother a few months ago.
01:39:30She was the heart of our family, and we miss her every day, but especially on an occasion like this.
01:39:35My father, John, and my brother, John, are both here today.
01:39:40My parents taught both of us that we could do anything we set our minds to and encouraged us to never give up on our dreams.
01:39:47My husband, Todd, is with me today also.
01:39:50We just celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary last week.
01:39:54Those years have gone by in a flash.
01:39:56I'm lucky to have found such a loving and supportive partner in this life, and God willing, we will have many more anniversaries in the future.
01:40:04Our children, Madeline and Zach, are here.
01:40:07They are incredibly successful, hardworking, and kind, and I could not be prouder of them.
01:40:14I must thank my professional colleagues and friends back in Philadelphia.
01:40:18Thanks to my fellow defenders who commit themselves every day to seeking justice for our clients.
01:40:24I also want to thank the many people in the Philadelphia legal community that have offered their support and encouragement.
01:40:29I know that you're out there watching and rooting for me, and I thank you for considering my nomination.
01:40:36I look forward to your questions.
01:40:44Mr. Lanthier.
01:40:46Thank you, Chair Welch, Ranking Member Graham, Chair Durbin, and the senators on this committee for the opportunity to appear before you here today.
01:40:57I want to express my gratitude to President Biden for the confidence that he has placed in me with this nomination.
01:41:04I wish to thank my Vermont senators, Senator Sanders and Senator Welch, for their support of my nomination.
01:41:11Both you and your staffs have been incredibly gracious through this process, and I'm grateful for that.
01:41:18I also would like to thank both of you for the very kind introductory comments.
01:41:22It is humbling to be nominated for a position that has been held by a long line of outstanding Vermont jurists.
01:41:28I'm being nominated to replace Judge Jeffrey Crawford, who is assuming senior status.
01:41:33He will leave very large shoes to fill.
01:41:37As members of this committee know, no one gets to this seat without the support and sacrifice of many others, both personal and professional.
01:41:45And I am fortunate to have several of them with me here today.
01:41:51First and foremost is my mother, Violet, who made the journey from Hydeville, Vermont, to here in the United States Senate to be with me.
01:41:59If my father and my brother and sister were alive, I have no doubt they would have made the journey as well.
01:42:05They are still with us.
01:42:09My parents have been my foundation.
01:42:12Sorry, this is more emotional than I anticipated it being. I apologize.
01:42:16They instilled in us the value of education, hard work, and making sure that whatever we did, we did it well.
01:42:23My mother is both the kindest and strongest person I know, and I'm thankful she's here today.
01:42:29My husband, Dave, is also here with me. He has been my partner for 30 years.
01:42:33He likes to be introduced as my charming husband, but I'll let others make that decision for themselves.
01:42:39I would not be here without him.
01:42:42My stepson, Matt, is here with his daughter, Rona.
01:42:45Matt and his sister, Kelly, allowed me into their family and shared their father with me, and I'm grateful for that.
01:42:52I'm thrilled that Rona is able to share in this experience and see her government at work.
01:42:58On her behalf, Senator Kennedy, we thank you for the pad of paper.
01:43:03My children, Andrew and Allison, are also here.
01:43:07While I very much enjoy the title of being Violet's daughter, there is no title that I am more proud of being than Andrew and Allison's mother.
01:43:15You have grown into special young adults, exemplifying the values of kindness, resilience, and hard work.
01:43:22We are proud of you.
01:43:24In addition to my family, I wish to thank my colleagues and my professional family.
01:43:28I am honored to have Justice William Cohen of the Vermont Supreme Court here with me.
01:43:33I thank him for his support and his mentorship.
01:43:38I have been proud to be a part of a strong public defender system in Vermont.
01:43:43I am inspired by the dedication of its leadership, its attorneys, and its staff.
01:43:49I have been fortunate to work with many talented and dedicated prosecutors who are committed to doing justice.
01:43:58Vermont is a special place, as Senator Welch said, and the Vermont Bar is a special group of people.
01:44:04I would not be here but for them.
01:44:08Thank you again for the time today, and I welcome the committee's questions.
01:44:14Chair recognizes Senator Durbin.
01:44:17Thanks, Senator Welch, and thank you to the nominees.
01:44:20And let me say at the outset, for those who are not familiar with the process,
01:44:24it is a long process where a lot of people investigate your life in detail.
01:44:28Questions are asked about things that you'd long ago forgotten,
01:44:32and you're asked to defend things which you thought were in the obscure past,
01:44:38but not so when it comes to the investigators.
01:44:41We have had people questioned about poetry they wrote in college
01:44:45that betrayed the fact they were truly Marxist and have been their whole lives,
01:44:49and they didn't realize it. That's the sort of thing.
01:44:52Then they go through the investigative phase of your preparation for this moment,
01:44:56and the American Bar Association steps in and asks every attorney who will answer the phone
01:45:02or answer a phone call or request for information what you're really like
01:45:07and what they can say about you personally and privately.
01:45:11And at the end of that process, I might say that both of these nominees were found well qualified
01:45:16by the American Bar Association. Well qualified.
01:45:19Which meant that your adversaries who had a chance in anonymity to say what they really believed
01:45:24said nice things, which is a good reflection on your lives.
01:45:29What I was struck by as I looked at both of your backgrounds
01:45:33was an enormous amount of court experience you've had.
01:45:36That's rare in these days, at least as I'm told.
01:45:39That's been removed from practice myself.
01:45:41A few cases end up in court, a few cases end up in trial.
01:45:45It looks like Mrs. Lanthier, did I pronounce that correctly,
01:45:49tried between nearly 50 criminal cases to a jury verdict.
01:45:5250 cases to a jury verdict.
01:45:55I hope you're getting ready to write a book about it.
01:45:58Tell me about that experience.
01:46:00What's been your biggest surprise when it comes to jury response?
01:46:03Thank you, Senator.
01:46:06I'm such a fan of the jury system that we have.
01:46:09I think what surprises me the most every single time
01:46:13is the dedication and the drive that jurors take to really do the job well.
01:46:19They listen to the evidence, they listen to the judge's instruction,
01:46:24and they take their obligation seriously.
01:46:27In the most serious of cases, and in the most,
01:46:31what may seem insignificant to you and me,
01:46:34but is the most important to the person next to me,
01:46:37it is clear to those clients that the jurors have taken their job seriously.
01:46:41It truly is the bedrock of our justice system, Senator.
01:46:45Ms. Henry, you've had similar experience representing clients
01:46:49at every stage of the state criminal process.
01:46:52Any observations, philosophical in nature?
01:46:56Thank you, Senator.
01:46:58I agree with what my colleague said about the importance of the jury system.
01:47:02I think it's what makes our country unique,
01:47:05and have the best system anywhere, I think.
01:47:09And I also think what you're right is about
01:47:12that trying a case before a jury is not something a lot of people have an opportunity to do,
01:47:16especially in federal court.
01:47:17And I've had dozens of juries in federal court
01:47:20in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
01:47:22So one of the things I like to do when I'm mentoring my students,
01:47:26my law students, is I make sure every trial I have
01:47:29that I allow a law student to sit and be part of that trial,
01:47:33and to be involved in writing the openings, writing the closings,
01:47:36prepping the witnesses.
01:47:38And I feel like that's the one thing I can give them
01:47:40that maybe another lawyer can't give them.
01:47:42And they've come back to me later when they've been working at big firms
01:47:45and making tons of money,
01:47:47and they've come back and said sometimes they'll have a partner meeting
01:47:51and I'll say, who's tried a case in federal court?
01:47:53And theirs might be the only hand that gets to go up and say,
01:47:56it was me, I've tried a case in federal court.
01:47:58So I think it's unfortunately not as frequent as I'd like it to be,
01:48:03but it's so important.
01:48:05And it really is a way to see our justice system at work.
01:48:08So the next thing you may have noticed in the Biden administration
01:48:11is women play a larger role in the selection process in this committee.
01:48:15Some people admire that and some resent it very much.
01:48:18We find it in lines of questioning,
01:48:20which seem to have a prejudice to believe
01:48:23that women cannot be good prosecutors.
01:48:26Whether you have been or not,
01:48:28and both of you have defense backgrounds,
01:48:31what is your response to the argument
01:48:33that you're going to be soft on crime?
01:48:35Ms. Lanthier?
01:48:39Senator, I have represented individuals
01:48:42who have been the victims of crime.
01:48:43I have seen the impact that crime can have on folks.
01:48:47My job right now in this system,
01:48:50in a system that I take great pride in,
01:48:52is to represent those individuals.
01:48:54Were I to be confirmed,
01:48:56I would take my same commitment to the system and do that job.
01:49:01I would apply the appropriate law to the facts of the case before me.
01:49:05Ms. Henry?
01:49:07Yes, Senator, I agree with that.
01:49:09Not only have a lot of our clients also been victims of crime,
01:49:13but we sit in court all day, every day,
01:49:17and we listen to victims face-to-face.
01:49:19We listen to the things they say,
01:49:21and it is impossible not to be moved
01:49:23by how difficult and how enduring
01:49:27some of the trauma that victims of crime face.
01:49:30We feel that.
01:49:32We see it on the front lines every day.
01:49:34If I was fortunate enough to be confirmed,
01:49:36I would think about that
01:49:38and all of the experiences I've had in the criminal justice system
01:49:40and use that to make sure
01:49:42that everyone is receiving equal treatment under the law.
01:49:45Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:49:48Thank you, Senator Durbin.
01:49:50Senator Kennedy?
01:49:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:49:54Congratulations to our nominees.
01:49:56Ms. Lanthier, your daughter's name is Addison or Allison?
01:50:01My daughter's name is Allison.
01:50:03Allison. And Allison's here.
01:50:05Allison is here.
01:50:07My grandchild, Rona, is also here.
01:50:10Allison, would you like to say anything?
01:50:13If you change your mind, just let me know, okay, and I'll stop.
01:50:18If you say anything, be careful, Senator Kennedy.
01:50:21Ms. Henry, let's talk a little law.
01:50:24If I challenge a rule under the Administrative Procedures Act,
01:50:29what do I have to prove?
01:50:32Thank you for that question.
01:50:35You are welcome.
01:50:37Senator, in the 25-plus years that I've been trying cases
01:50:45in federal court and in state court,
01:50:47I've never had to bring a claim
01:50:49under the Administrative Procedures Act,
01:50:51so I'm not sure of what's required.
01:50:53You don't know the answer?
01:50:55I don't.
01:50:57Okay. All right, let me ask you this.
01:50:59You'll probably see this in district court.
01:51:00Is partisan gerrymandering legal?
01:51:11Thank you for that question.
01:51:13You're welcome.
01:51:15I think that I would have to evaluate that claim
01:51:23if it were before me, and in doing so,
01:51:25I would look at what's involved in...
01:51:31But is it legal?
01:51:33Senator, I have not had that issue before me
01:51:38in my years in practice.
01:51:40Do you know what it is?
01:51:42I do understand.
01:51:44What I understand is that when the districts
01:51:46are separated voting districts
01:51:48based on different political groups.
01:51:52Yeah.
01:51:53Okay. Is it legal or illegal?
01:51:56Senator, I haven't had that issue before me
01:51:58in my 30 years of practice.
01:52:00You don't know?
01:52:02But if I'm faced with that issue,
01:52:04I would research it and I would be prepared
01:52:06to address it.
01:52:08Okay. All right.
01:52:10Do you know what a blue law is?
01:52:13I'm sorry, Senator?
01:52:15Do you know what a blue law is?
01:52:17A blue law is...
01:52:19I studied that in law school, I'm sure.
01:52:20I believe a blue law, Senator,
01:52:23is having to do with selling alcohol on certain days.
01:52:26Yeah. Like usually on Sunday.
01:52:28Yes, Senator.
01:52:30Does that violate the establishment clause?
01:52:33Does a blue law...
01:52:35Let me be more precise. I'm sorry.
01:52:37Does a blue law violate the establishment clause?
01:52:40Senator, I don't believe a blue law
01:52:42does violate the establishment clause.
01:52:44Okay. Why not?
01:52:46Well, because, Senator...
01:52:48If a legislator... I'm sorry.
01:52:50If a legislator says
01:52:52you can't open and sell, let's say,
01:52:55food or anything on Sunday,
01:52:58not Thursday, not Saturday, Sunday,
01:53:02why doesn't that violate the establishment clause?
01:53:05Senator, I think there was an issue
01:53:09in a recent Supreme Court case
01:53:11that talked about whether they could force...
01:53:14It was a postal worker
01:53:16to have to work on Sundays
01:53:17because that violated his religious beliefs,
01:53:20to have to work on Sundays.
01:53:22And what the...
01:53:24That wasn't under the blue law.
01:53:26Oh, no. I thought you were... I was just...
01:53:28Yes, I understand that.
01:53:30I understand that that was an issue, though,
01:53:32related to the establishment clause,
01:53:34which I thought was what we were talking about.
01:53:36Yes, ma'am. But I'm asking just a real precise question.
01:53:38I'm going to move on if you don't know.
01:53:40Okay.
01:53:41Tell me why, just succinctly,
01:53:43like you were back in law school,
01:53:44why a blue law violates
01:53:46or doesn't violate the establishment clause.
01:53:48If...
01:53:50I mean, it seems obvious.
01:53:52Well, the issue is whether,
01:53:54in looking at the establishment clause,
01:53:56of whether the action of the state
01:53:59in saying that you can't be open on a Sunday
01:54:02would be...
01:54:04would either interfere
01:54:06with the free exercise of the persons
01:54:08or it would be the government
01:54:10establishing a religion.
01:54:12Yes, I understand the issue.
01:54:14Okay.
01:54:15So what's the answer?
01:54:17So the answer is that I don't think...
01:54:19I believe that there's case law
01:54:21on the fact that you can...
01:54:23that there can be blue laws
01:54:25that allow alcohol stores
01:54:28or places that sell alcohol
01:54:31to not be open on Sundays.
01:54:33Okay.
01:54:39Tell me the difference
01:54:41between proximate cause
01:54:42and cause in fact.
01:54:47Thank you for that question.
01:54:49You're welcome.
01:54:51So my understanding of proximate cause
01:54:53is something that's...
01:54:55or directly caused by something
01:54:57as cause in fact.
01:54:59And if it's inadvertent,
01:55:01I believe it would be proximate cause.
01:55:03But as I said in my 30 years
01:55:05of practicing criminal law,
01:55:07that type of causation
01:55:09is not the type that we usually address.
01:55:10And that's most relevant
01:55:12to our criminal practice.
01:55:14I don't understand what you just said.
01:55:16I'm saying when you talk about...
01:55:18Try it again.
01:55:20Okay.
01:55:21What's the difference between
01:55:23proximate cause and cause in fact?
01:55:25My understanding of it, Senator,
01:55:27and because it has not come up
01:55:29in my 30 years of criminal practice
01:55:31is that we look to
01:55:33whether something was directly caused
01:55:35or inadvertently caused
01:55:37and that would be the idea
01:55:38and I was only saying that
01:55:40in my criminal practice
01:55:42when we look at whether something is caused,
01:55:44we look at the intent of a statute
01:55:46or someone's action.
01:55:48Intent has nothing to do with it.
01:55:50No, I understand that.
01:55:52I was explaining the difference.
01:55:54In a civil case.
01:55:56Yes, I understand that.
01:55:58That's criminal.
01:55:59Yes, correct.
01:56:01All right.
01:56:03Tell me about the consumer welfare standard.
01:56:05Senator, your time is close to expiring.
01:56:06It's just you and me.
01:56:08Okay.
01:56:09We're down to the big guns here.
01:56:12Can you just tell me
01:56:14about the consumer welfare standard real fast?
01:56:16Senator, in my 30 years of practice,
01:56:19I've never had numerous jury trials.
01:56:22I've never had a consumer welfare standard.
01:56:26Yes, ma'am.
01:56:29You don't know what it is?
01:56:32You'd look it up.
01:56:34Okay.
01:56:35You don't do a lot of looking up,
01:56:37it sounds to me like.
01:56:39All right.
01:56:40Allison, did you change your mind?
01:56:42Anything you want to say?
01:56:44You sure?
01:56:46Okay.
01:56:47How about vote for your mom?
01:56:49There you go.
01:56:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:56:53I like that last question,
01:56:55Senator from Louisiana.
01:56:57Senator's time has expired.
01:56:59Thank you.
01:57:00Just one question for each of you.
01:57:02One of the wonderful things
01:57:03is that you're going to be serving
01:57:05in the communities where you've been living
01:57:07and you know the people.
01:57:09Ms. Henry, I'll ask you to reflect
01:57:11on what that means to you
01:57:13and then Ms. Lanthier for you to do the same thing.
01:57:15Go ahead.
01:57:17Thank you, Senator.
01:57:20Sorry.
01:57:22Thank you very much for that question
01:57:24and this opportunity to talk about
01:57:26the lawyers and the community where I live and work.
01:57:28In terms of the legal community,
01:57:30I was really moved by the people
01:57:31who reached out to support me in this position
01:57:34and who encouraged me to apply,
01:57:36who thought that I would be a good judge.
01:57:38And I know them from being on the other side of me
01:57:42in criminal cases,
01:57:44my adversaries at the U.S. Attorney's Office.
01:57:46I have great respect for the work they do
01:57:48and I respect their integrity.
01:57:52And I hope and I think
01:57:55that they feel the same way about me.
01:57:57And I have a lot of support in Philadelphia
01:57:59in the legal community.
01:58:01And in the civil practice.
01:58:03And of course my coworkers
01:58:05have really rallied around me.
01:58:07And everyone has been encouraging me to do this
01:58:09because they believe I can do it.
01:58:11They believe I can be a good judge.
01:58:13And so I'm encouraged by that.
01:58:15And obviously Philadelphia is a wonderful place.
01:58:17This would be in the Lehigh Valley
01:58:19which is beautiful and a lovely place also.
01:58:21So I'm thrilled at even being considered for this position.
01:58:24Thank you.
01:58:26Ms. Lanthier.
01:58:28Senator, that's really hard to put into words.
01:58:29I am the daughter of two quintessential Vermonters
01:58:34who taught all of us, the three of us,
01:58:37the importance of hard work,
01:58:39of taking care of your neighbor,
01:58:41of taking care of your community.
01:58:43I was born into a community
01:58:45where those same sentiments existed
01:58:47and people supported the families
01:58:49and supported the children.
01:58:51And I have grown up in the Vermont legal community,
01:58:53a community based on ethics, integrity, and justice.
01:58:56And I am here on all of their shoulders.
01:58:59And it would be a true honor
01:59:01to serve the people of Vermont.
01:59:03Well, thank you very much.
01:59:05But that's tremendous.
01:59:07That just is something very special
01:59:09to get the support of people who know you best
01:59:12but be able to serve the people you know the best.
01:59:15But before I adjourn,
01:59:17I want to thank Senator Kennedy
01:59:19for hanging in here with me.
01:59:21And I want to thank her, too,
01:59:23and all the families who are here.
01:59:26Thank you all so much.
01:59:28Questions for the record
01:59:30will be due to the nominees by 5 p.m.
01:59:33on Thursday, June 27.
01:59:36And the record will likewise remain open
01:59:39until that time to submit letters
01:59:41and similar materials.
01:59:43The Senate is not scheduled to be in session that day,
01:59:46so please, if you have any questions,
01:59:47please plan accordingly.
01:59:49With that, this hearing is adjourned.

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